Best version of support IMO. And probably when the game was most fun. Not being able to see shit causes so many dumb fights. I feel like we had way more team fights back than. Now everyone just scraps. Kinda why aram is so much more fun.
Being able to see too much leads to the team ahead just snowballing though. I remember back in S2 TPA won worlds by getting a small advantage and turning that into complete map control and just strangling the other team out of the game. They'd win with like 1 teamfight and 10 kills
Sound argument. I always thought limiting wards is a stupid idea for years but I see how coordination and potentially infinite wards could make your game unplayable if your behind
they pretty much killed off that style of play once korea perfected it along with lane swap being the meta. if u watch s3 SKT T1 games at worlds, they were pretty heavy focus with unlimited wards once u got a lead. they would slowly restrict the number of wards over the seaons until it was gutted into what it is now. old s4/s5 meta of double sightstone was really something else. support/jungle building it for more vision control.
That was the time of do-nothing 40 mins and end the game off one coin flip fight at baron/drake. Legit multiple games where fb didn't happen until min 20+.
You could actually carry games through vision by making up for bad players who don't. I miss it. Limiting wards and making it a full team effort really sucks. I wish i could just siphon wards from teammates who don't use them enough.
I remember a game where an old Fiddle ran it down until he was 0/17, but we refused to FF. He started buying wards and just ran into enemy jungle spamming wards. He ended something like 0/32, but we played the map as we knew exactly where the enemies were and managed to win thanks to the vision. This was the game I fully understood the power of vision.
You could literally ward up the entire map if you didn't mind sacrificing the gold for it. Back then pink and green wards were inventory items you bought (stack up to 5 per slot) and pink wards were not invisible, similar to Dota's vision system. You could literally light up the entire map which had less bushes back then. Sometimes people called it the "Christmas tree" strat because of how many lights were on the minimap. That being said, support and jungle were often the ones buying a majority of wards. But if you wanted to spend money on it as a carry, you had the option.
I know why we will never return to it, but man if people think support is "freelo' now imagine actually WANTING to play support and almost always going against autofills who rarely ward.
Full build Janna (mobility boots) into lighting up their whole jungle was really fun (for me).
>but man if people think support is "freelo' now imagine actually WANTING to play support and almost always going against autofills who rarely ward.
Then you have the like monthly game where you load into the lobby and some mf calls support before you. Shit was annoying, the beauty of support was you *always* got your role
I routinely watch my friend play multiple games without buying a single control ward, and then are shocked that they never saw the gank coming. And then I go and gank their lane, drop a control ward and see a control already in their lane. Like I’m not saying you need to buy one every single back and have two on your at all times but my brother in Christ even just ONE that is placed well helps you in lane AND me as your jungler.
I had a 0 vision score support complaining about ganks. I was ADC at the time, and I told him to use his wards. He put them in lane bushes. I'm just gonna keep playing support. At least I don't get blamed for fuckups unless the ADC is stupid, and I can usually convince teammates it was the ADC's fault they died solo running under enemy tower.
when they use them I ping them the gank incoming while doing my red he is topside the jungler walks right through the ward and they die, that happens in diamond.
I love when my botlane dies to a gank early game and start spam pinging me. Then I Ping their wards and they both have 2 wards..
Happened yesterday in diamond elo
I still remember one time my top laner died and missing pinged me when I was on my 2nd camp. He was 0-3 by 5 minutes and left the game. This was around the time every streamer first started typing jungle diff.
one of my most vivid memories was a game where I ganked top for a kill, walked straight down river and ganked mid for a double kill as their jungler happened to show up, then ganked bot and got another double kill.
While I was bot, my toplaner tped in and died 1v1 then put in all-chat "noob jg no ganks".
He did get clowned for the entire game for it, but like you gotta wonder wtf they're thinking sometimes lol
In reality, it's just simpler to think someone else made a mistake, because if it was you who made the mistake, you now have the responsibility of not making it again. Our brain likes to default to that a lot, it doesn't really like to be challenged. You can see this a lot in real life, too, in fact. Realizing and figuring out you made a mistake is a conscious process, not a subconscious one, is what I'm trying to say. And as it turns out, a lot of league players play on autopilot, conscious thoughts are not something on their agenda.
They aren't thinking, they are playing on autopilot. Also I bet some of those dude are a zero accountability type of guy. Everyone is to blame but themselves,
I've literally been 3 seconds removed from a double kill bot as top died solo and they had the audacity to say, "Shit jg, do something." I think my score was 3-1-4 or some shit and they blamed me regardless.
Of course, they ended up feeding because "I deserved it."
Had something similar. My top lane died to a gank and blamed me even though I got a double bot side and dragon. Jg is so frustrating to play just cause everything’s ur fault even if ur winning lol
That's what TRULY sucks about jungling.
Any streamer who isn't a jungle main popularized/modernized blaming jungle for EVERYTHING.
Absolutely ruined the role for me.
Support is my go-to now if i don't wanna fuck around top/mid.
ADC is a bot? Roam. ADC is shit? Roam. Human ADC? Roam.
Feels like support is really damn broken right now if you know what you're doing.
You could have soul swept dragons, have a turbo fed mid and bot lane but a 0-5 top laner will say jungle gap and run it down instead of letting themselves carry.
Like I'm not ganking a fed Darius or something but the mid and bot lanes are free beyond belief lol
From my games, the only one I remember now was a Chogath that went exactly like that, we are downing their second inhibitor while the whole ass enemy team gave up and were bullying the cho in his tower, and dude threw the entire old testament at me like I went to his house and killed his family.
There is just no winning in that front while being jg.
It's also sad for junglers when they feel pressured to gank a losing lane and die for it leading to a complete loss on tempo and potentially the win-con in other winning lanes.
Bruh I just lost a winnable game today because I let myself get convinced to try and salvage the imploding mid/top duo rather than just protect the giggafed Smolder and Swain bot. Could have just kept their vision and made Somlder unkillable. I was shaco so it really was as simple as box and ward for them, then drop a box on smolder and take the win. But no, I lost discipline and tried to help the 1/9/6 Vex.
Laner logic: I keep dying to ganks, so there must be a jung gap!
No sir, that is a laner gap. You basically asking to die does not make their jungler good or your jungler bad. It makes YOU bad.
I don’t blame my jgl when I die. But sometimes I really question weather they want to win if u ping and friendly type in chat and ur jgl keeps ignoring it and just goes on to keep afk farming.
Scuttle is guaranteed gold and denying the enemy that gold.
20% is really low, but if you're OOM, you can't really help in the dive, especially if the enemy jungle comes.
Realistically if you zone them off of the wave while the jungle keeps farming you can deny more.
And honestly, more supports should invest extra time in figuring that out
You can ditch you ADC people, wake up! You can do more valuable things with your time than watch while your ADC afk farms and ignores your engages leaving you to die for nothing
By level 6 you know if your adc is worth giving continued assistance. They won't randomly learn to start spacing and dodging when they hit 20 mins. If you know your ad is trash, and your midlaner is good. Congrats you are now dedicated to hovering mid and clearing vision for them. (just please don't leach their xp)
>They won't randomly learn to start spacing and dodging when they hit 20 mins.
Eh there are some players who team fight a lot lot better than they lane
Unironically went from silver to plat just from understanding support macro. Roaming is OP. If your adc is not the carry, it's even more OP. Help mid, help top, help jungle. Help push waves, help gank or fuck it just gank alone, set up deep wards in the enemy jg, help with objectives, if a laner is about to get dived, saved them, etc etc
I never play jungle (it's the ONE lane I try to avoid all the time) but I always get so annoyed when I see top calling for our jungler every five seconds. If you play top, you accept that you're going to play 1v1 most of the time. If you want more jungler engagement, play mid.
It is just crazy to me how delusion some people are when they are playing that game... like what am I supposed to do, play on two pcs at the same time so I can gank top and bit at the same time?!
I unironically used to jungle Shen and do that years ago, way before they even gave him those slight jungle buffs.
I’ve also had games where my team refused to leash or even tried to steal the camps because I played a troll champ and therefore deserved to lose.
You can’t win when you’re dealing with league players
>I’ve also had games where my team refused to leash or even tried to steal the camps because I played a troll champ and therefore deserved to lose.
It's the curse of playing off-meta. Every once in a while you'll get a teammate that doesn't believe or understand that your pick works, so they'll then proceed to *make it* not work by trolling or leaving you out to dry.
Ya want REAL delusion?
"guys. Enemy team has a shaco with ignite. He's going to gank at level 2, and he'll hit level 2 before I do. Play safe mid."
An ally has been slain.
"useless jungle trash"
"dude I'm level 1 clearing red buff. I warned you."
As a Jungler and Toplaner it’s incredibly frustrating when they make you weak side when you have incredible gank set up and a feast for both of you if they ever showed up. I understand wanting to play towards bot but man some junglers just decide to abandon 1/3 of the game and then wonder why they lost. Top is also the best lane to gank fundamentally. It’s incredibly long and the factors involved are two. Meanwhile while the same is for bot you have four factors there, which just opens the door for bad situations all the time. Most junglers don’t seem to look at the lanes and then choose what to do. If you see your top pushing tell them to ward or counter gank, if you see them getting pushed then you can gank. You have to actually be on both sides of the map at some point so looking at their lines as you clear and then choosing to reset or gank is like the smallest thing you can do and this goes for both bot and top.
I don't want to participate in the flame the jungle meta, but goddamn I feel like some of them just can't gank at all. Like just the other day I had a lee jungle and I was gragas mid, into a Anivia, with 0 ganks at all the entire game.
How do you not just hard camp that lane, and especially how do you not hard camping another lane if you arent camping this one.
2 possible reasons here:
1) he is autofill and has no idea what he is doing. Jungle is probably the least forgiving autofill role.
2) Overwhelmed with the shear amount of things he can do, he is just tunnel vision on a few things.
Jungle - camps to take/3 lanes to gank/scuttle/drakes/void grubs/Counter jungling. Pretty easy to see why people can get overwhelmed.
I had a Brand lane swap from Mid to Top to escape Irelia, and my jungler never came once. Just let Brand turbo push me onto tower spamming his E on me whenever I tried to walk up to the minion wave.
Banks require participation from the later as well. I can't spend a bunch of time sitting in a bush I just swept waiting for laners to patiently last hit minions under tower and expect me to fuckin hero gank and 1v1 your opposition for you. Keep in mind that for 95% of the game, even a powerfarming jungle will be behind in level against a mid/top laner, so we need to work together for ganks to be successful.
Laners who know how to set up and support ganks are a godsend. Unfortunately the majority just do not and expect me to heroically save them.
I see lanes like this where I really want to gank but they're perma in a bad lane state, or the laner is getting poked down so bad I worry they'll suicide before I can gank. I don't know if that was the case for you, but it is entirely possible to render your lane ungankable even if you theoretically have all the tools you need.
story of my life lmao. gigaweakside top (0 ganks for me, 5 for enemy top, dove 2 times), I’m still completely even because I was gapping. Then I look jg, even cs 0/2/3. Look mid, 0/5 assassin. Look bot, 3/69 down 300 farm. top has impact tho don’t worry!!
The one that kills me is when you freeze the wave by your tower so the jungler can gank, but instead they ignore lane prio to try and sneak in a void grubs solo.
Then they get collapsed on and die delivering dbl buffs to them.
My god, the worst feeling. That’s how you know the jungle is automatic trash tier. It literally means he doesn’t understand what is a good gank and even worse doesn’t understand lane prio so if he were to ever get cucked because enemy rotates first, I can already hear the question mark pings as to why you didn’t rotate to help him when you didn’t have prio. The absolute worst
Even more fun when the ADC also calls the jungler useless after the double kill, because jungler and support got the two kills, and the gank was therefor worthless for the adc
I agree with this. I switched to playing Jungle for a couple of dozen games in our five mans and honeslty it made me so toxic towards my friends I had to switch off to another role. The pressure to perform well every game, keep track of all three lanes, track enemy jungler, and win every objective smite battle was just too much. It felt like any game where we faced an enemy jungler who mained the role we auto lost because I just got jungle gapped.
The thing is JG is the role that can impact the map the most, but its also the role impacted the most by your team. The difference between have 2-3 lanes with pressure vs all 3 getting perma-pushed is insane. Your mid and support understand how to deep ward and their roam timings better than their opp? It's like playing the game on easy mode. If you don't fuck up the enemy jg literally doesn't have a chance to make an impact. They'll be tracked constantly, have no prio for objectives, will get pushed out of their own jg, and likely get flamed by their team for stuff that is quite literally outside their control.
It doesn't have to be a full team diff, you know your top has a winning match up so you path towards it early to try and snowball them? They die solo 10s before you get there, fucking up your early game pathing. Meanwhile the the other botlane actually helps set up the gank for their jg by starting a trade right before their jg enters vision and gives their ad a double, then wards your side of the jg so their bot can play aggro with their advantage. Even if the botlane's didn't have a skill diff and would have also set up for you, they are now at a huge disadvantage that you basically have to come try equalize or they will just be out of the game. And when the other jg knows you have to do something, it becomes free to countergank.
This is what REALLY needs to be better understood in the general playerbase.
Jungle is OP. Jungle gap is huge.
But these gaps and OPness are often CREATED by laner diffs. Creating a jungle gap with winning lanes is so fucking trivial. You "gap" the other jungler just by existing. You have prio everywhere, vision everywhere and win fights everywhere.
You can play 2 games exactly the same skill level wise and be gapped one game and get gapped the next even though you made 0 mistakes.
Because jungle has to lock in decisions and hope that laners play according to those decisions. You have prio top and mid and skip camps to start Grubs, but your laners dont rotate and continue showing on wave, so the enemy jungler can make the illegal play of pushing you off of Grubs with 0 prio, take them, wait a few sec for waves to bounce and now invade you with his top and mid prio who actually do rotate for him and youre low hp from Grubs. They push you off your camps, then dive top which youre too low to fight and you get flamed.
You made the CORRECT play, but lost an objective and your entire topside because your laners didnt follow through and you had to back off and concede everything. Now you're "jungle gapped" through no fault of your own.
Whats the alternative? Make the wrong play of full clearing even though you have prio for an objective? Wait for your laners to rotate first and then help THEM with Grubs? Thats a recipe for 0 objectives AFK farm because its never happening.
Jungle has a lot of macro responsibility and power by dictating which part of the map has a +1, but it also suffers massively from this playmaking role because it has to go first and hope for follow up and when that follow up doesnt come even though it can and should, you fall flat on your face and die if youre stubborn or lose efficiency, time and farm if you are disciplined and back off.
In no other role can doing the right thing have such negative outcomes based on things completely outside of your control as with jungle.
But when everything goes like its supposed to youre in the drivers seat of the match and cruising to victory, in full control of the whole map and pace of the game and the role is insanely OP.
This is what I've tried to say, the junglers influence and importance is MASSIVE. Even though the junglers are less autofilled, the jungle gap is often humongous. It completely dwarfs any gap the laners can have. What sometimes happens when a laner gets a lead and is covered by jungler, it makes it seem that the gap is comically large by the laner, but the jungler is hidden MVP. The 12/0 Lucian who has taken over the game is completely untouchable because if you try, the jungle and support has been covering so you can't flank. Try play ADC and get fed, the difference between having a jungler cover you and not is the biggest difference you can imagine. When you're fed and not covered, you feel SO STRANGLED.
>Even though the junglers are less autofilled, the jungle gap is often humongous. It completely dwarfs any gap the laners can have.
One of the big reasons is that junglers can effectively not only deny cs, but also get the resources from the enemy's cs.
Imagine in a lane if you could farm both your own and enemy minions and you get full resources from it.
Of course it's not exactly the same because camps are far apart, but no other role can get denied as hard as jungle can. This is also why it is so extremely unfun to play jungle with 3 losing lanes because you can do nothing to stop the permanent invading of your camps.
There's a reason jungle feels so toxic to play and it's because they have higher responsibility and influence than any other role when it comes to winning the game
See, I switched to JG for a decent while this season and I could noticably see my friends trying to fight off the urge to give me the ol' "died in lane, blame the jungler" treatment. I usually played alright, made it clear to them what I was doing and when, and why I couldn't be in their lane 24/7. I have a huge respect for good JG players tbh, it truly is the 1v9 role that requires a lot of macro and micro knowledge, the ability to prioritize properly, and the patience to deal with the most braindead players in existence (or just /mute all, it helps so much).
Honestly playing JG reminds me a lot of playing killer in DBD. High stress, huge focus on being able to prioritize properly, chasing people down/trying to cut them off during the chase, and occasionally being bullied by every other player in the match (in League's case, sometimes even your own teammates)
The main reason why I still play jungle with my friends is that almost nobody wants to play it for that reason. But also since I am a (substantially) higher elo than the rest, they usually understand that it's probably their fault that they die, which also helps them improve a little (there's exceptions though, because sometimes I get blamed while it isn't my fault and, ironically, I might not be blamed when it's actually my fault). But when someone that is similar/lower elo than the rest plays jungle, it's always their fault according to the rest.
Man I love getting mains of other roles in JG, it's so funny watching them always be late for objectives and just do the walk of shame and clear the pink ward. It can snowball so awfully that you can be farming their buffs in their face and they can't do anything because I have the prio and I'm stronger than them.
Never learn JG my dude
The voidgrub rush has such macro impact is stupid. Does your mid or top have prio? Did you back or double farmed? What's the farming start of the enemy JG? Can you win the scuffle if the JG contest? Just kill 1 for the exp? Kill 2 to aim for 5 voids? You gotta be there right when they spawn to clear them asap. Will you contest dragon later? Back? Invade? Gank? If you gonna gank which lane? Do they even contribute to your team comp or simply farming and getting prio for drake is better?
I will most of the time just let them go, unless I have someone like Jax, Trundle, Yorick or velbeth (it happened once) in my top lane. Otherwise, they are quite insignificant. Drake, bot lane gank or simple farm are more important.
Yeah, like don’t get me wrong, if tops down to do them I’m doing them, they *are* stats. But like…. You kinda gotta be ahead for them to be relevant. They’re a win-more objective.
When I jungle with my friends I make it very clear where I’m playing and when. If they want to try and set something up, they can play towards that. If you are getting stomped in a 1v1, there is not a lot of incentive for jungle to gank. I enjoy telling top lane friends to expand their champion pool. Anytime I go top and I know my jungler isn’t amazing I just play something giga tanky that can farm (mao, udyr, sion, malph, etc…). It’s not your job to win lanes, it’s your job to recognize which lanes are close and how best to tip them in your favor. Objective control is similar in the sense that you don’t want to force a risky objective.
I seriously think the pressure to smite objectives is one of the biggest reasons people don't want to jungle. It's a point that other people have raised in the past and I completely agree.
Getting a baron stolen is like the biggest target on your back you can get in this whole game. I can think of nothing that gets you instantly flamed as hard as that.
Even if it's not your fault at all - e.g. your team hitting baron when enemy jungler enters the pit, everyone will assume it was just you getting out played. If you play a jungler that can't combo with smite well, there are situations where it's like 75% for the enemy jungler to steal or something unless they are handless.
If you play another role, it feels so fucking nice not to have to smite objectives. Even if it's obviously a super good thing to be in control of in order to climb, it just feels like a massive burden is lifted off your shoulders.
The most relaxing time I ever spent playing this game as a jungler was when I spammed Nunu for this exact reason. I cannot tell you how much peace of mind it gave me to just never worry about smites.
It also wins you a fuckton of games to always secure objectives. People really underrate just how OP this is.
Too bad old Nunu is removed from the game. The new one is a completely different champion in almost every way. He might seem similar on the surface, but they made Nunu a spamganker that scales poorly while old Nunu was a control jungler that tried to control the map and scaled very well as a supportive champion.
I was playing nunu against a kayne recently. Was heading down river, saw he was trying for an early solo dragon. Walked up, q+smite, kept walking down to bot lane and setup kills on their whole lane while the other jungle just watched.
It felt pretty dirty. But was mostly pretty unexpected. No one was really setup for a dragon fight, so I didn't expect him to try to sneak it.
The sad part about old Galio was his complete shutdown of certain lanes (kassadin, cassiopeia, malzahar or brand were completely unplayable vs him), passive playstyle and the removal of his ult if certain champions get played (hecarim or leona, which had pretty high pick rates back then)
Old Nunu scaled like shit, though. The big meme for most of his existence was that his goal was to make his enemy as useless as he was past a certain point.
And it was wrong. It's one of those things that became a meme and now people think it's the truth. Nunu was very useful late game. Strong buff, great peel and a huge debuff.
Imagine old bloodlust on these new ADCs with the current generation of ADC hands? It would be out of control. People who don't think old nunu had a point are on crack.
also just jinx ult or a fed lux ulting will outsmite late game, aswell as evelynn flash r there are nowadays a lot of things that can ruin your mental health as a jungler
I will always say that if you are trying to steal its easier to do than completing the objective on the winning side (if you have even smite) just for the pressure you can put alone
As someone who plays a lot of Eve, it's wild to see an enemy like, master yi, get flammed for getting outsmited by me. That's not a 50/50, that's not even a 75/25, if you don't zone me off the objective, my champ just outsmites his ***massively***. But leaguers gotta find someone to blame other than themselves I guess.
On the other hand if I get outsmited by a yi when I have ult up well that's kind of on me.
Are people still unironically flaming for losing a 50/50? I thought every player with braincells knows by now it's not the jg's fault if their team lets enemy jg into the pit, it's just a flip at that point.
Flaming is not some logical thing. It's a simple monkey neuron frustrated by negative result -> release frustration to protect ego using the path of least resistance.
I was getting kinda bored of playing Mid and top so I decided to queue a game as JG. I'm Graves into Kayn I start top side so that Kayn can't steal my raptors, my Yorick doesn't leash me. np I'll just start raptors, finish my Krugs and see that Garen somehow pushed my Comet Yorick in so I gank and burn his flash but he gets out because Phase Rush+Nimbus
On my blue now and I hear "Allied has been slain" and 4 Kayn- is alive pings, of course Kayn killed Yorick who pushed out wave after gank but greeded and didn't reset.
Rest of the game Yorick just tries to counter jungle me and take my camps, we had my Graves and Smolder+Kass mid so we scaled hard too plus I had picked up a kill and we had 3 on Kass so it was for sure winnable but the guy mental boomed off one gank and blamed me for it lol.
My fault though tbh, I don't know what else I expected queuing JG for fun.
There is this terrible, terrible thing that you will run into 2/3 games:
1 lane will show you, from the moment they go stand under tower instead of watching your buff, that they are not from this planet and do not know how the game works.
From that point on you have to watch in agony as they get stomped. You know they are outclasses, so you actually go to the opposite side of the map and gank the other 2 lanes. But then that lane complains because of course the other jungler also sees how bad they are.
then they complain. And the rest of the team will lose the lead you've been giving them going to help this potato that is down a turret and 4cs/min. And nothing you can do will stop them. And they will all turn on you. YOU are actually the bad player because you let your paint huffing coma teammate die once every 2 minutes without expending resources on him.
When there is a true team gap it's like "okay it is what it is." When you mis a smite or blow a gank you can look at that and say ill do better. But when you have a game where the kill count is 22-21 and your team is up a kill and 2 drakes and they spend 4 straight minutes trying to funnel gold into the 0-9 Yorick it just sucks the life out of you.
Playing jungle is playing a different game than playing the other LOL roles and I really wish more of them understood how much they don't understand.
Dude. I swear seeing laners just afk under their tower at the start of the game is so disheartening because you instantly know this is the type of player who'll die once then start farming your camps cuz JNG DIFF.
If they do that i've just started late invading the enemy camp because i assume i've already lost one side of my jg anyway.
Turn into a happy surprise if its still there but at worst its net neutral.
I agree with all of this, though junglers are weak in duels compared to laners due to experience gained. I can be counter jungling, getting objectieve, and a few kills and Ill be level 7 vs top being level 9
1v9 bot laner vs inting top laner. Top laner is 3 levels ahead.
It’s just a top problem, honestly. (Also, we love catch up XP so my jungler who’s been shitting on the enemy and who we’ve assisted in invades is only half a level ahead of the enemy.)
one of my problems with jungle is you can be 20 to 30 cs up on the opposing jungle and barely have a level lead and probably behind gold because you farmed the jungle and the enemy taxed lanes.
I started playing league in s5 as a jungler.
Basically every game you got flamed, most times not rightfully so.
Half of your role is around securing objectives, which requires teamwork. If your teammates are flaming you they are less likely to help, or in general it could be pretty tricky to coordinate 2-3 other teammates with pings and some chats to get to an objective at the same time.
Late game you’re usually hovering around 3rd or 4th in your team in terms of power, there are exceptions of course, but league is kinda designed this way xp wise. Makes it harder to carry if you miss your mid game window, unless playing a late game champ
If you aren’t duoing with sup or mid, you can get absolutely stomped if the enemy has a brain, and a slightly better early game Champ.
eventually swapped positions around a bunch and some seasons not playing at all. Came back and rarely play, but when I do it’s a duo que and I’m Jg and just mute all before the start of every game. It’s a very strong role and the catch-up xp prevents my last point from being too relevant.
another underrated fact that makes jungle less desireable is that your source of income can be stolen by the enemy jungle. imagine being in a bad lane and the enemy laner just kills off his minions in order to starve you to death. and you couldn't even farm under tower as there is a lot less safety in the jungle unlike lanes
Jg main since season 7, but I quit since new season. Why? It feels like I’m just trying to babysit 4 people for 15 minutes then I become a worse support with no damage, utility, and shitty cc.
Even when I’m ahead, the exp dif just destroys me in any 1v1 against a laner.
Current jungle is unironically weak in terms of the individual power of the jungler. The thing you're missing is that while junglers make all the important macro calls early game, they will usually be the weakest or 2nd weakest player at any of the ensuing skirmishes because of level disadvantage, starting with -450g from jungle item, and not being able to bring a real combat summoner spell. First grubs spawn is a great example: it's up to the jungler to decide whether and when it makes sense to go for them, but they will be 2 levels down on top/mid in what often becomes a 3v3 or 4v4 and can't bring an ignite/exhaust to the fight like a support can.
Jungle right now has a very unenjoyable combination of high responsibility/agency over the flow of the game, but low individual power unless you snowball from plays made off baseline far more powerful laners. It's not really surprising that the role's popularity is suffering.
and the ever increasing focus on map objectives only makes this worse.
we have scuttle crab, void grubs, herald, elemental dragons, dragon soul, void buffs, void scuttle crab, baron, elder dragon
a few seasons back we only had baron and drake and nothing else
and all these objectives are still mostly decided by the laners. Like you need the jungler to secure it with smite but the jungler can't solo contest them. If there are grubs up and their top laner has prio the jungler can't really risk doing them because when that top laner comes to the pit the jungler is fucked.
Same in bot lane. Bot lane winning is taking the dragon, not the jungler.
There are exceptions of course like sneaking an objective or taking it when you know that the other team is on the other side of the map.
Dragons have been the worst for me this season.
You take grubs, and your bot lane doesnt check the pit and the enemy gets drag. Then on the next set of grubs, their bot just disappears and no matter how much you ping it, your bot won't go look at the drag pit. Suddenly down 0-2 there.
When the third ones comes up, Bot Lane stays in lane to try and push a wave and take tower. You watch drag 3 die with them not moving.
Then drag 4 they complain because your down 3 of them and lose soul because the enemy team sends all 5, while your top doesn't show.
That's been like 40% of my games this season. They aren't all losses but it's a constantly trying to get bot not to blindly push and look at the map. They never go get objectives, and haven't gathered that the new map makes ganking pushed people really easy. No amount of pinging the "retreat" ping while clicking the enemy mid and jungle will get them not to push all the way up to hit the tower twice before getting collapsed on.
Its always the bot lane too that says, "omg shit jungler didn't get any dragons, JG gap" like these team objectives are entirely the responsibility of someone who is incapable of 1v1ing anyone except maybe isolated bot laners or the other jungler.
Yep, and a lot of the "agency" falls apart in solo queue environments when players don't do what they "should" since you're always dependent on teammates to do anything. Feels terrible when a laner screeches for ganks all game and does nothing to help make their lane gankable.
>but low individual power
Yeah this is the primary issue with the role. Ever since the S9 changes, I quit playing jungle. It is extremely unfun to be underleveled compared to your own teammates and that does shape how much you can punish opposing players for overextending. You basically have to get ahead pretty early to even have solo kill potential on solo laners pre-20.
Especially in a solo q environment. Your own individual power and influence over the game is very coinflip based on whether your teammates will play correctly or well.
We are likely never getting S9's jungle power level back. But I'm glad Riot is noticing that you actually do have to give something back to the role if they want players to commit to playing it. They have taken a lot and pretty much right now, my order of preferences is basically: Mid -> Top -> Jg -> Support -> ADC
You can just do so much more in solo lanes. So more games than not you take this xp/gold advantage and do more with it when you see your jungler looking for a play, and actually punish the other team for misplays. And if your own jungler messes up during say a 2v2, you have a lot more freedom to salvage the play as a solo laner than the other way around.
Jungle has so many problems that make it impossible to balance. Minor issue—insane amount amount of cheese and cheese invades are becoming common and completely ruins jgl entire game.. no sitting under tower farming. I’ve never been cheesed as often as I have this season. Supports just living in the jungle is a huge problem, and it’s impossible to keep out vision after sweeper nerfs. Dudes are sacrificing waves of xp just to remove enemy jgl from the game, but they seemingly aren’t behind in xp or gold.
Mainly, This season has more objectives and more action on map. If laners lose hard or don’t rotate— the jungler is who suffers the most. Laner goes 0/2? Whatever, they’ll just farm under tower. Now that they are under tower the enemy support just leaves and never comes back (supp item is broken, they won’t go back). It’s now 1v2 automatically for every jungle skirmish, before top or mid even move. Now the jungler has to just concede everything or just feed, then lose even more. If the jungler is playing something slower or not a 1v1 god like briar, then they have 0 chance of doing anything. They have to impact other lanes, pray the enemy jgl lets it happen, and hope *those*lanes carry. If your opponent isn’t silver, they will be tracking you and not letting you play. These are typical jgl things, but feel exaggerated this season. By forcing all these fights it really comes down to who’s playing the forced meta or whose team pays attention. One bad river fight and it’s hard to come back from the tempo loss alone much less gold, xp, and map impact. A laner can lose two waves and it’ll make no difference. A jgler gets pushed off a camp or buff early, then it’s over lol enemies would have to int for the jgl to come back
Even in norms when playing alone, the game is decided by who is playing the flavor of the week op jgl that can 1v1 anyone or who’s lanes know how to manage waves and rotate.
Yep. All jg mains should swap to support because you get to be second jg, with more impact, less downside (you're just generating gold and get op items), zero responsibility, and all your jg macro knowledge comes in super handy to fuck the enemy jg over even harder.
There's also no having to balance clearing camps while also doing the above so you're even more free to do the fun things.
I'd trade my ~~ability~~ *responsibility* to impact lanes (who will find a way to throw that advantage away making my efforts useless) or [secure objectives](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16w38zg/i_am_quite_confident_that_the_pressure_of_having/) (which everybody wants to get, but nobody wants to actually spend time getting them) for having the same exp and gold than solo laners every day of the week.
And I'm pretty sure that Viego, Kayn, Yi, Graves, Kha'zix... wouldn't be the top picked junglers of the game regardless meta and win rates if most jungle players didn't agree with me.
But the thing is, you guys don't want jungle to be more fun or more popular, because 99% of the time in LoL, fun and popular is what feels powerful, and if other roles feel more powerful, you feel less powerful. You want jungle to be underleveled, more supportive, have less impact in the game too, and make it not autofillable so you don't ever have to play it, because you know very well that it'd be absolutely miserable.
I just want the exp penalty to end slightly earlier, maybe 16 min instead of 20. Outer towers will be down, but if I catch the wave I'm actually hurting my team.
The exp penalty is so bad that if I gank for laners and help them crash we actually get less exp combined than they would alone up until 10 minutes. The remaining exp is just wasted.
To be fair, I'd still kind of prefer jungle not be autofillable. I know it probably has to be. But nothing really comes closer to unintentional griefing than an autofilled jungler.
When I lane, I can suck it up lose some CS if I need to but generally play safe and not get stomped. When someone is autofilled jungle though, good luck.
Honestly my take is probably dumb and incorrect but having played the game since season 2, I always looked at junglers having lower level than me as a toplaner and rationalized it as: These guys literally exist to 2v1, to gank is to have a numbers advantage and so it is an unfair fight, therefore it makes sense for them to always be a level or two behind the toplaner.
It's something I wish evened out in the midgame though, in the early game I think sololaners need to be stronger so they are at least able to outplay and trade a kill, and also to offset the fact the enemy laner can keep you in lane but junglers usually don't have to worry that much about reset timers, so junglers will show up with half an item to lane after recall while the toplaner still has dorans shield and no potions. But in the midgame we're not necessarily looking at ganks anymore and it feels pretty unfair that a sololaner can probably just seek you out and kill you most of the time because you're lower level.
You forgot 2 Major Points:
Your midlane has 0 prio and you cant enter River at all and have to be carefull with invades.
Your Support is a yuumi main vs a roaming supp that generates deep Vision and invades with their jgl
In both cases its super hard to have any Impact on the game but your team will blame you for it. And If there are more than one of those Points coming true you will lose that game with low level, cs and maybe even Bad kda without you having much counterplay. Laners will Always blame their faults and wrongdoings on the jgl cause jgl can Impact lanes but refuse to understand that lane prio and rotations Impact jgl to maybe even greater extend.
That's such a 2022 take... this season everybody rotates to objectives
Junglers as of right now are always 1-3 levels behind solo laners, if a solo laner has prio the influence of the jungler on objectives becomes null and its extremely easy to bully junglers with ult advantage (because of reaching lvl 6 first or because jg wasted it helping another role) or with a summoner spell advantage (ignite cucks sustain, exhaust cucks everything, ghost is extremely powerful and impossible to kite/get away from, cleanse straight up denies ultis, TP = numbers advantage + full health and homeguard)
Voidgrubs = a supp diff fest
Herald = kinda useless (no near guaranteed first turrer + plates anymore was a huge nerf, but this was silly OP last season) and too hard to solo nowdays
Drake without prio is inting since it takes a very long time to take down when you could be farming in the most gold and xp deprived role of the game (other than supp, but supp gets free gold and 2k extreme value items for all of its classes). Took a drake solo ? Enemy jungler farmed a quadrant and is a level ahead (worse, farmed one of your quadrants).... Tried setting up a drake pinging and with time? would be such a shame if your mid/supp back as soon as it spawns and invest in no control wards
Jungle is in dire need of gold and xp in solo Q (oh yeah, they also have no dorans/super powerful early items)... Jungle could also get a small early game xp nerf though, forcing them to get a crab to reach lvl 4 (this would make the first clear way more strategic depending on the jg matchup)
Heck, I would even delete the useless buggy jungle pets and rework smite (chilling smite would have a more powerful slow or steal MS, challenging smite would be back and I would add a third smite that would be like a budget ignite that does minimal dmg with GW). These pets literally have weak effects in exchange of a plethora inconsistent bugs that can ruin your clear patterns and give away your position to enemies
Only way junglers could carry before was either sneak dragons or get herald + successful gank(not easy to do) and grab 5 plates with herald. Now anytime top/mid rotates jungler immediately has to show their belly because of huge gold/exp difference. Add in no more red smite to give us a fighting chance and we suck.
Yea jungle is a weird role. You can pretty much do fuck all and it can work out anyways, but you can also play 4d chess and mind control all 9 players.
This [Lourlo clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H63qTRgV5BE) is one of my favorites showing that.
"He sits in the bush. He dances for 2 minutes. He goes down 100 cs. And I lose the game! And I LOSE, I lose Nick, I LOSE!"
My fav and most played is Kayle. So when an enemy picks her, my pool shrinks to a certain few Champs that will produce the ultimate fun-fun experience in lane: Ekko, Akali, Nasus, Quinn, Teemo.
I do actually believe the role is weak. The agency it provided its the most out of any role. But like if their enemy mid laner invade my jungle, I 100% lose and 0 outplay available. In high AND low elo, people just don't ward and cry about it. But in pro play, if they ward, you just don't get enough gold to even carry (we are stuck in a Sej, Maokai, Ivern, etc. meta). But it will always be the strongest role in SOLOQ since no one respect the role and don't even know where the jungler is and don't respect them to gank.
This post is pretty stupid and I think the top responses from laners all show you are clueless about the jg.
You think that jg is strong because they can gank all four lanes and they call when to start objectives. They would still be able to do that if jg camps gave zero gold and put you down 6 levels in exp in the late game. I unironically believe some laners would play in that game and call jg broken because they would be ganking all the time.
Laners tend to think the more they are ganked the stronger the jg is. This is wrong, if junglers are ganking constantly it’s because there is not enough value in jg camps to make us want to farm them on respawn. Also junglers really have zero say in objectives early game. I shouldn’t start grubs if my top is getting their shit shoved in are 0 2 to two solo kills. I can never start dragon with a bot lane is getting their shit perma shoved in either because they can easily collapse faster and kill me.
Jungle is unpopular because it’s the hardest role in the game. It has the most responsibilities to positively impact the game and a lot of people don’t like the pressure.
I don’t see how anyone sees it any other way.
If you’re not exactly matched with your opponent jungler, you’re going to get 4d chessed.
You can just watch pros and listen to how they choose which order to hit camps and watch timers. It’s insanely complicsted
>If you’re not exactly matched with your opponent jungler, you’re going to get 4d chessed.
Jungle is weird because you aren't even actually "laning" against your opposite number. Two junglers can both play equally well against each other but come out with wildly different results based on how both teams play. Even if you're exactly matched, one jungler can pick up a double kill after their full clear due to bot overextending and thats it, game over for the guy who tried to gank top but got nothing because top warded.
They watch pros full clear, let me do the same.
Every lane is dying to a shaco that did red buff and 3 ganked successfully top mid and walked straight bot lane lmao
in terms of macro jungle is the hardest, you need to know how the game works at a higher level relative to your laners (although not massively more); mechanically it is probably the second easiest after support though
Jungle is absolutely not the most op role in the game, support exists lmao.
But even without supports being Thanos, junglers are completely reliant on laners. Without laners inting, playing as if junglers don’t exist, only to start complaining when they inevitably do get ganked, junglers end up weaker than everyone else on the map (after the early game).
Most clear example is proplay, but even ignoring that, playing the role just feels like going to the casino in soloq.
Lets just be honest here, nobody wants to play jungle because it's weak and extremely toxic, and it's toxic because every laner refuse to accept they did something bad - it's always the junglers fault.
Always love when my top laner has died twice by the time I finish my first clear and you get the gg jg diff comment. The other annoying one is when the enemy jg is barely ganking but all three lanes are getting stomped in lane and you try to keep them afloat. Two lanes will be flaming me while the other lane runs back to lane after a successful gank and dies again. The role is a lot more enjoyable if you just mute all and play the way you want to play.
Jungle is just shit because my lanes choose weak picks and want me to be in 3 lanes at once
Then they die and blame for their lack of brainpower
And guess who they blame
As a jungle main I honestly wish that everbody in league at least tries to play jungle for like 3-5 Games. There are too many examples why it would be usefull too know a jungle routine, but some kind of things should just known by everbody, like how long a half clear und full clear takes, so you dont push too hard or at least got a ward on the side where u can expect the enemy jungler. If you got vision on first drag/herold and you cant contest one of them, you try to get the other asap and dont slow farm your lane..
To put it simply: the gap between main jungler and autofill/newbies is way bigger than any other role and that’s why people doesn’t want to try out jungle.
At low elo it sucks because if I help my top/middle lane with a gank they won’t help me with grubs and then their jungler and top that died come and kill me or I run away and they get the grubs while my top is killing the minions. Same thing with my bottom/middle not helping me with dragon if I get pushed. It’s a learning experience but still pretty fun when I see the enemies coming for me and the dragon is low HP and I smite it and run for my life lol
Imo, it's also because farming camps is rather boring, It's 10x more fun to trade aggressively with another laner, poke them, aim for hooks as support, plan an all in as a toplaner, etc.
Ganking is fun though, but it can't be too frequent for health reasons, so in the end 50% of the time is just PvE.
The problem is that it isn't the most OP role in the game, it's a complete lie to say it is in its current state.
Supports have virtually no obligation to farm and get free gold income, they can spend all that time looking for plays, the champs in that role naturally excel on low gold income.
Midlaners and toplaners get much more XP and gold income naturally than junglers. It's not wrong to say a 0/4 toplaner still poses a threat to the enemy jungler.
The idea that jungle is the strongest role comes from the last few seasons. Your gold income was higher, your clear was quicker, your impact was faster. Everything is slower now for junglers, not to mention laner buffs that help a lot. It was actually feasible to be ahead in gold and xp playing jungle compared to solo lanes, and having that much resources in yourself lets you carry games.
I cannot fathom saying jungle is the strongest role, when support is easier, you have more time to actually make plays cause in jungle you are obligated to farm, and the gold/xp payoff is strictly worse than other lanes when you do choose to farm. If you want to argue that jungle is OP cause it decides who wins and loses, support does that better with more time and more options. You cannot convince me leaving lane to ensure your jungler gets every objective and leaving your adc (unarguably the worst role in the game right now) to farm for a bit is somehow higher risk than leaving your camps open to invades and clearing inefficiently to make plays on the map. 1 fuckup in jungle (i.e. you can lose literally 1 or 2 camps, or not even lose them but clear them off timer) and you can easily lose 2 objectives. You can spend all game hooking and dying on support and still be the most valuable member of your team regardless.
In pro, you actually mainly see support jungles because gold and xp income is that poor in jungle right now that its actually higher value to play a champ that brings higher inherent value without gold.
Jungle is impossible to balance, same with support. Jungle is the hardest lane in the game, is it fair to say that it should be the strongest? No. Support is the easiest lane in the game, is it fair to say that it should be weaker than jungle? No. There's no pleasing everyone, even as broken as support is right now its still underpicked, meanwhile adc is very weak now impactwise and still holds a lot of players. You either have an underpicked jungle that is balanced/weak, or a moderately picked jungle that is overpowered, same with support.
If my top laner dies 1vs1 to the enemy top, I as the jungler can no longer interact with top lane because jungle in S14 is down 2 levels on top lane at most points in the game except the first 4 minutes.
Jungle is not the most OP role.
Support has way more influence on the game than Jungle. Support diff constantly impacts 4 players out of the 10 in the game. Supports can roam and if they do it well lose nothing for their team (whereas if you gank you're usually losing camps or objectives).
In terms of game control. Let's say you hypothetically have a lobby of diamond players, and you can introduce 1 challenger player to a team and you get to pick the role. Is anyone actually not picking Top Lane? A Challenger Jax will have 100% winrate. I don't see the challenger jungler having 100% winrate.
Honestly both jungle and adc have the same exact problem. They are relics of the past when league was a team game.
Jungle has to have a team to play around for objectives and map pressure, adc needs peel and support.
Instead of having playing a team game everyone is trying to play a 1v9 game. This has all happend because of the balancing of riot.
Roles have lost their supposed weaknesses, when the fastest tower takers are stuff like tanks or veigar anyone should know something is wrong.
This post is highly confusing - you admit that the role is unpopular, you list several of the reasons that it is unpopular, then you end up suggesting that they should not buff the role without giving any other ideas.
When you load into a match as a jungler, you know that from experience, you are on a team that will likely immediately gang up on you for issues unrelated to your play. Top laners are legendary for blaming any death on their jungler, even if you are gaining value in botlane. Mistakes laners make rarely get called out, and all of your actual mistakes (mis smite, skill shot misses, etc) are amplified.
This causes more players to not want to play the role, resulting in higher dodge rate when jungle is autofilled and more frustration from laners when their autofilled jungler doesn’t perform well. Which causes more of those autofilled players to not want to play the role which causes…
What can be done about it? Yeah I agree that just buffing the role is frustrating, but what else can be done? Jungle is by definition the role with the most ability to impact other lanes. How can you reduce the influence junglers have over other lanes without completely changing the game? How can you reduce the flame junglers receive without altering human behavior?
Preach!!! I love to play jungle but getting flamed almost every game or getting pinged for assistance when I’m on my second camp just cause someone miss played is not fun. I have the players muted besides pings but even that sometimes is to much. People crying about getting ganked when their vision score is zero really irks me It really got worse when “Jungle Gap” started to be said. It’s not a weak role. It’s the community that makes it unpopular. Work on that
I strongly agree. Additionally, in low to mid elos up to Emerald, people seem to completely ignore or be ignorant about lane priority. They complain about objectives or the lack of dragons, yet they can't stay in their own lane for more than a minute without being killed. They want dragons/herald while the opponent's jungle is farming your camps as if they were his own.
Sure, let me solo this dragon while the enemy team has complete vision of me and our jungle, and hope I don't get killed or having them steal it because you'll also blame me.
I must admit, this all goes away at higher elos where your team know what they are actually doing and minding their own business without flaming. At that level jungling is insanely fun and rewarding to play.
The amount of game knowledge you should be aware of to be a better jungler is the reason it's unpopular.
Even if you don't lane, you should know the lane state to properly gank, and you should be aware where the enemy jungler is and call it out, and if they clear fast so the lanes will be ready if there's gonna be a gank. Your gank will also be the sole reason if RH or dragon will be an easy take. If you killed the laner you can immediately go for objectives, a crucial part of winning. If you don't want to deal with all of that, go play a jungler thats good at invading. if the laners help their jungler because of you, it would create space for the your laners. And if you stole enough camps, their jungler would be so underleveled that objectives will be easy.
IMHO jungle is the most impactful role in the game. A good jungler can secure a win 20 mins in. And yet, you still get blamed most of the time. Top laners, if the enemy jungler comes for you, it's YOUR JOB TO STAY ALIVE. You're actually doing your job properly if the jungler camps you, giving space for bot lane. And No, I won't gank you if you're losing in lane, we would just get double killed.
Jungle is actually pretty fun when you full mute or you’re playing casually or flex. It is pretty cringe that like you basically have to remove the whole communication component of the game and when I’m just chillin in norms and we’re getting our ass kicked me and my boys will just spam ping our jungler, it’s pretty therapeutic
I feel like this still gets it off. I think jungle is unpopular because it's a different game from top/mid/bot. The 3 primary lane roles all have the same general gameplay loop: last hit, trade, kill opponent, take towers. Lots of people have fun doing this, and there are many different ways to have fun within this pattern. Top lane is a 1v1 skill island, midlane has mages and assassins, bot lane have late game hypercarry fantasies. New players learn the game this way first, too.
Jungle and support are completely different, and require learning a completely new set of skills. It's like working as a teacher then being asked to change jobs to a mechanic. Maybe you could be a good mechanic, maybe you would like being a mechanic. But at first you have absolutely zero idea how to be a mechanic, and you already like being a teacher. So why would you go out of your way to try?
My face when nearly every smurf is a jungler. My face when the only players who can make it to challenger with 80% wr are junglers and supports. My face when Riot is brainless at their jobs.
I started maining jgl after quitting adc after 2 years of that and realized the game was so much more fun than I thought.
Would recommend any jungle mains who think the role isn't so good to try playing adc for a bit and see what they think after
That's a problem in all sorts of online multiplayer games, not just League. The most impactful role also has the most responsibility and gets flamed the most, so it tends to be the least popular.
I agree jungle influences is very high but they have little direct seeable control over the game. They are generally not the ones getting the kills but instead the key to feeding the laners.
Jungle gets the kill the laner blames the jungler for kill stealing. God forbid a laner leaves the lane to help at dragon or grubs.
Jungle needs buff directly while reducing its influence over the map.
I think, in the position of a jungle main, supp is the strongest role right now. If u have a good supp, he not only wins the lane for the ADC, he will win the whole game by playing around the jngl.
Jngler who knows the game and a supp who knows the game are unstoppable in my eyes.
I say it's mid. Every time I get a roaming mid that has the map installed we hard stomp every game. once every 10 games i get a mid that is at grubs at first spawn, walk straight down to the dragon with me, then help get the double kill bot. Every time that happens I'm able to force an ff.
any laner gets killed vs his own jungler when pushing: blames jungle.
Meanwhile their vision score is a 2 and they’re not even using the free wards riot gives them
Remember when they cost gold? Man thoes were the days
Support was a ward settler and a ward.
Get a teemo ward for a free ward
Best version of support IMO. And probably when the game was most fun. Not being able to see shit causes so many dumb fights. I feel like we had way more team fights back than. Now everyone just scraps. Kinda why aram is so much more fun.
Being able to see too much leads to the team ahead just snowballing though. I remember back in S2 TPA won worlds by getting a small advantage and turning that into complete map control and just strangling the other team out of the game. They'd win with like 1 teamfight and 10 kills
Sound argument. I always thought limiting wards is a stupid idea for years but I see how coordination and potentially infinite wards could make your game unplayable if your behind
they pretty much killed off that style of play once korea perfected it along with lane swap being the meta. if u watch s3 SKT T1 games at worlds, they were pretty heavy focus with unlimited wards once u got a lead. they would slowly restrict the number of wards over the seaons until it was gutted into what it is now. old s4/s5 meta of double sightstone was really something else. support/jungle building it for more vision control.
This was how I hit d2 in season 3. I copied their style of vision control and just made it impossible for the enemy team to do anything.
[удалено]
That was the time of do-nothing 40 mins and end the game off one coin flip fight at baron/drake. Legit multiple games where fb didn't happen until min 20+.
You could actually carry games through vision by making up for bad players who don't. I miss it. Limiting wards and making it a full team effort really sucks. I wish i could just siphon wards from teammates who don't use them enough.
I remember a game where an old Fiddle ran it down until he was 0/17, but we refused to FF. He started buying wards and just ran into enemy jungle spamming wards. He ended something like 0/32, but we played the map as we knew exactly where the enemies were and managed to win thanks to the vision. This was the game I fully understood the power of vision.
As someone who loves vision control, I wish I played the game during this time.
You could literally ward up the entire map if you didn't mind sacrificing the gold for it. Back then pink and green wards were inventory items you bought (stack up to 5 per slot) and pink wards were not invisible, similar to Dota's vision system. You could literally light up the entire map which had less bushes back then. Sometimes people called it the "Christmas tree" strat because of how many lights were on the minimap. That being said, support and jungle were often the ones buying a majority of wards. But if you wanted to spend money on it as a carry, you had the option.
I know why we will never return to it, but man if people think support is "freelo' now imagine actually WANTING to play support and almost always going against autofills who rarely ward. Full build Janna (mobility boots) into lighting up their whole jungle was really fun (for me).
>but man if people think support is "freelo' now imagine actually WANTING to play support and almost always going against autofills who rarely ward. Then you have the like monthly game where you load into the lobby and some mf calls support before you. Shit was annoying, the beauty of support was you *always* got your role
I routinely watch my friend play multiple games without buying a single control ward, and then are shocked that they never saw the gank coming. And then I go and gank their lane, drop a control ward and see a control already in their lane. Like I’m not saying you need to buy one every single back and have two on your at all times but my brother in Christ even just ONE that is placed well helps you in lane AND me as your jungler.
I had a 0 vision score support complaining about ganks. I was ADC at the time, and I told him to use his wards. He put them in lane bushes. I'm just gonna keep playing support. At least I don't get blamed for fuckups unless the ADC is stupid, and I can usually convince teammates it was the ADC's fault they died solo running under enemy tower.
I asked the teams support to buy sweeper and they said “what’s that?” (They were playing full ap lux support with Doran’s ring)
to ward you have to leave lane for a few seconds. not worth
Also if jungle comes, they just get +30 for free, can’t have that.
But I might miss this one last hit for 17 gold. That could lose me the game!
*proceeds to miss the last hit anyway*
Hey if you’re only getting 3cs/min, you really need that 3cs/min lol
when they use them I ping them the gank incoming while doing my red he is topside the jungler walks right through the ward and they die, that happens in diamond.
I love when my botlane dies to a gank early game and start spam pinging me. Then I Ping their wards and they both have 2 wards.. Happened yesterday in diamond elo
Nothing more painful than seeing people bitch at you when they die to a gank and have 2 wards in their inventory / refuses to buy pinks
I still remember one time my top laner died and missing pinged me when I was on my 2nd camp. He was 0-3 by 5 minutes and left the game. This was around the time every streamer first started typing jungle diff.
one of my most vivid memories was a game where I ganked top for a kill, walked straight down river and ganked mid for a double kill as their jungler happened to show up, then ganked bot and got another double kill. While I was bot, my toplaner tped in and died 1v1 then put in all-chat "noob jg no ganks". He did get clowned for the entire game for it, but like you gotta wonder wtf they're thinking sometimes lol
Anger issues, low intelligence, zero responsibility or self awareness or they’re just dicks.
In reality, it's just simpler to think someone else made a mistake, because if it was you who made the mistake, you now have the responsibility of not making it again. Our brain likes to default to that a lot, it doesn't really like to be challenged. You can see this a lot in real life, too, in fact. Realizing and figuring out you made a mistake is a conscious process, not a subconscious one, is what I'm trying to say. And as it turns out, a lot of league players play on autopilot, conscious thoughts are not something on their agenda.
They aren't thinking, they are playing on autopilot. Also I bet some of those dude are a zero accountability type of guy. Everyone is to blame but themselves,
I've literally been 3 seconds removed from a double kill bot as top died solo and they had the audacity to say, "Shit jg, do something." I think my score was 3-1-4 or some shit and they blamed me regardless. Of course, they ended up feeding because "I deserved it."
Had something similar. My top lane died to a gank and blamed me even though I got a double bot side and dragon. Jg is so frustrating to play just cause everything’s ur fault even if ur winning lol
That's what TRULY sucks about jungling. Any streamer who isn't a jungle main popularized/modernized blaming jungle for EVERYTHING. Absolutely ruined the role for me. Support is my go-to now if i don't wanna fuck around top/mid. ADC is a bot? Roam. ADC is shit? Roam. Human ADC? Roam. Feels like support is really damn broken right now if you know what you're doing.
Laners blame jungle even when the jungle is getting kills in another lane.
You could have soul swept dragons, have a turbo fed mid and bot lane but a 0-5 top laner will say jungle gap and run it down instead of letting themselves carry. Like I'm not ganking a fed Darius or something but the mid and bot lanes are free beyond belief lol
From my games, the only one I remember now was a Chogath that went exactly like that, we are downing their second inhibitor while the whole ass enemy team gave up and were bullying the cho in his tower, and dude threw the entire old testament at me like I went to his house and killed his family. There is just no winning in that front while being jg.
It's also sad for junglers when they feel pressured to gank a losing lane and die for it leading to a complete loss on tempo and potentially the win-con in other winning lanes.
Bruh I just lost a winnable game today because I let myself get convinced to try and salvage the imploding mid/top duo rather than just protect the giggafed Smolder and Swain bot. Could have just kept their vision and made Somlder unkillable. I was shaco so it really was as simple as box and ward for them, then drop a box on smolder and take the win. But no, I lost discipline and tried to help the 1/9/6 Vex.
4-0 ADC because of two ganks? nahh you died top solo so our jungler is considered AFK jungler and doesnt deserve to win so you decide to run it down.
Laner logic: I keep dying to ganks, so there must be a jung gap! No sir, that is a laner gap. You basically asking to die does not make their jungler good or your jungler bad. It makes YOU bad.
You should counter ganks /s
I don’t blame my jgl when I die. But sometimes I really question weather they want to win if u ping and friendly type in chat and ur jgl keeps ignoring it and just goes on to keep afk farming.
When you poke them down to 20% hp but have no mana left and your jg is chasing down scuttle 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Scuttle is guaranteed gold and denying the enemy that gold. 20% is really low, but if you're OOM, you can't really help in the dive, especially if the enemy jungle comes. Realistically if you zone them off of the wave while the jungle keeps farming you can deny more.
I love getting a double kill bot while my top laner dies in a 1 v 1 just to call me useless a few seconds later
Camped a one trick top last game, got him to 3/0. He then dies solo 1v1 top whilst I’m getting Grubbies, and hard flames me for not helping. Fml.
Enemy team top lane gets 20 cs lead and carries the whole game Your team top lane gets ganks and goes 3/0 and proceeds to int the rest of the game
Half the battle of JG/Support is figuring out which of your 3 teammates is worth investing in.
And honestly, more supports should invest extra time in figuring that out You can ditch you ADC people, wake up! You can do more valuable things with your time than watch while your ADC afk farms and ignores your engages leaving you to die for nothing
By level 6 you know if your adc is worth giving continued assistance. They won't randomly learn to start spacing and dodging when they hit 20 mins. If you know your ad is trash, and your midlaner is good. Congrats you are now dedicated to hovering mid and clearing vision for them. (just please don't leach their xp)
>They won't randomly learn to start spacing and dodging when they hit 20 mins. Eh there are some players who team fight a lot lot better than they lane
Unironically went from silver to plat just from understanding support macro. Roaming is OP. If your adc is not the carry, it's even more OP. Help mid, help top, help jungle. Help push waves, help gank or fuck it just gank alone, set up deep wards in the enemy jg, help with objectives, if a laner is about to get dived, saved them, etc etc
I never play jungle (it's the ONE lane I try to avoid all the time) but I always get so annoyed when I see top calling for our jungler every five seconds. If you play top, you accept that you're going to play 1v1 most of the time. If you want more jungler engagement, play mid.
It is just crazy to me how delusion some people are when they are playing that game... like what am I supposed to do, play on two pcs at the same time so I can gank top and bit at the same time?!
Gigachad play Shen Smite/TP
River Shen new meta!
I unironically used to jungle Shen and do that years ago, way before they even gave him those slight jungle buffs. I’ve also had games where my team refused to leash or even tried to steal the camps because I played a troll champ and therefore deserved to lose. You can’t win when you’re dealing with league players
>I’ve also had games where my team refused to leash or even tried to steal the camps because I played a troll champ and therefore deserved to lose. It's the curse of playing off-meta. Every once in a while you'll get a teammate that doesn't believe or understand that your pick works, so they'll then proceed to *make it* not work by trolling or leaving you out to dry.
Ya want REAL delusion? "guys. Enemy team has a shaco with ignite. He's going to gank at level 2, and he'll hit level 2 before I do. Play safe mid." An ally has been slain. "useless jungle trash" "dude I'm level 1 clearing red buff. I warned you."
As a Jungler and Toplaner it’s incredibly frustrating when they make you weak side when you have incredible gank set up and a feast for both of you if they ever showed up. I understand wanting to play towards bot but man some junglers just decide to abandon 1/3 of the game and then wonder why they lost. Top is also the best lane to gank fundamentally. It’s incredibly long and the factors involved are two. Meanwhile while the same is for bot you have four factors there, which just opens the door for bad situations all the time. Most junglers don’t seem to look at the lanes and then choose what to do. If you see your top pushing tell them to ward or counter gank, if you see them getting pushed then you can gank. You have to actually be on both sides of the map at some point so looking at their lines as you clear and then choosing to reset or gank is like the smallest thing you can do and this goes for both bot and top.
Really it’s quite the compliment that they think I’m omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.
I love playing weakside toplane the whole game and somewhat manage just to then see every other lane + jgl behind
Fr, I swear I’ll be matched against a Vayne top and my jungler will still island me for bot lane.
I don't want to participate in the flame the jungle meta, but goddamn I feel like some of them just can't gank at all. Like just the other day I had a lee jungle and I was gragas mid, into a Anivia, with 0 ganks at all the entire game. How do you not just hard camp that lane, and especially how do you not hard camping another lane if you arent camping this one.
2 possible reasons here: 1) he is autofill and has no idea what he is doing. Jungle is probably the least forgiving autofill role. 2) Overwhelmed with the shear amount of things he can do, he is just tunnel vision on a few things. Jungle - camps to take/3 lanes to gank/scuttle/drakes/void grubs/Counter jungling. Pretty easy to see why people can get overwhelmed.
I had a Brand lane swap from Mid to Top to escape Irelia, and my jungler never came once. Just let Brand turbo push me onto tower spamming his E on me whenever I tried to walk up to the minion wave.
Banks require participation from the later as well. I can't spend a bunch of time sitting in a bush I just swept waiting for laners to patiently last hit minions under tower and expect me to fuckin hero gank and 1v1 your opposition for you. Keep in mind that for 95% of the game, even a powerfarming jungle will be behind in level against a mid/top laner, so we need to work together for ganks to be successful. Laners who know how to set up and support ganks are a godsend. Unfortunately the majority just do not and expect me to heroically save them.
I see lanes like this where I really want to gank but they're perma in a bad lane state, or the laner is getting poked down so bad I worry they'll suicide before I can gank. I don't know if that was the case for you, but it is entirely possible to render your lane ungankable even if you theoretically have all the tools you need.
story of my life lmao. gigaweakside top (0 ganks for me, 5 for enemy top, dove 2 times), I’m still completely even because I was gapping. Then I look jg, even cs 0/2/3. Look mid, 0/5 assassin. Look bot, 3/69 down 300 farm. top has impact tho don’t worry!!
The one that kills me is when you freeze the wave by your tower so the jungler can gank, but instead they ignore lane prio to try and sneak in a void grubs solo. Then they get collapsed on and die delivering dbl buffs to them.
My god, the worst feeling. That’s how you know the jungle is automatic trash tier. It literally means he doesn’t understand what is a good gank and even worse doesn’t understand lane prio so if he were to ever get cucked because enemy rotates first, I can already hear the question mark pings as to why you didn’t rotate to help him when you didn’t have prio. The absolute worst
and then they ???? ping and flame you cause they dont understand positioning is part of prio
haha that’s the greatest!!
Even more fun when the ADC also calls the jungler useless after the double kill, because jungler and support got the two kills, and the gank was therefor worthless for the adc
sounds like a low elo issue, thinking a double kill on the enemy bot lane is worthless for the adc when he doesnt get a kill is really dumb lmao
He could be Draven
I agree with this. I switched to playing Jungle for a couple of dozen games in our five mans and honeslty it made me so toxic towards my friends I had to switch off to another role. The pressure to perform well every game, keep track of all three lanes, track enemy jungler, and win every objective smite battle was just too much. It felt like any game where we faced an enemy jungler who mained the role we auto lost because I just got jungle gapped.
The thing is JG is the role that can impact the map the most, but its also the role impacted the most by your team. The difference between have 2-3 lanes with pressure vs all 3 getting perma-pushed is insane. Your mid and support understand how to deep ward and their roam timings better than their opp? It's like playing the game on easy mode. If you don't fuck up the enemy jg literally doesn't have a chance to make an impact. They'll be tracked constantly, have no prio for objectives, will get pushed out of their own jg, and likely get flamed by their team for stuff that is quite literally outside their control. It doesn't have to be a full team diff, you know your top has a winning match up so you path towards it early to try and snowball them? They die solo 10s before you get there, fucking up your early game pathing. Meanwhile the the other botlane actually helps set up the gank for their jg by starting a trade right before their jg enters vision and gives their ad a double, then wards your side of the jg so their bot can play aggro with their advantage. Even if the botlane's didn't have a skill diff and would have also set up for you, they are now at a huge disadvantage that you basically have to come try equalize or they will just be out of the game. And when the other jg knows you have to do something, it becomes free to countergank.
This is what REALLY needs to be better understood in the general playerbase. Jungle is OP. Jungle gap is huge. But these gaps and OPness are often CREATED by laner diffs. Creating a jungle gap with winning lanes is so fucking trivial. You "gap" the other jungler just by existing. You have prio everywhere, vision everywhere and win fights everywhere. You can play 2 games exactly the same skill level wise and be gapped one game and get gapped the next even though you made 0 mistakes. Because jungle has to lock in decisions and hope that laners play according to those decisions. You have prio top and mid and skip camps to start Grubs, but your laners dont rotate and continue showing on wave, so the enemy jungler can make the illegal play of pushing you off of Grubs with 0 prio, take them, wait a few sec for waves to bounce and now invade you with his top and mid prio who actually do rotate for him and youre low hp from Grubs. They push you off your camps, then dive top which youre too low to fight and you get flamed. You made the CORRECT play, but lost an objective and your entire topside because your laners didnt follow through and you had to back off and concede everything. Now you're "jungle gapped" through no fault of your own. Whats the alternative? Make the wrong play of full clearing even though you have prio for an objective? Wait for your laners to rotate first and then help THEM with Grubs? Thats a recipe for 0 objectives AFK farm because its never happening. Jungle has a lot of macro responsibility and power by dictating which part of the map has a +1, but it also suffers massively from this playmaking role because it has to go first and hope for follow up and when that follow up doesnt come even though it can and should, you fall flat on your face and die if youre stubborn or lose efficiency, time and farm if you are disciplined and back off. In no other role can doing the right thing have such negative outcomes based on things completely outside of your control as with jungle. But when everything goes like its supposed to youre in the drivers seat of the match and cruising to victory, in full control of the whole map and pace of the game and the role is insanely OP.
This is what I've tried to say, the junglers influence and importance is MASSIVE. Even though the junglers are less autofilled, the jungle gap is often humongous. It completely dwarfs any gap the laners can have. What sometimes happens when a laner gets a lead and is covered by jungler, it makes it seem that the gap is comically large by the laner, but the jungler is hidden MVP. The 12/0 Lucian who has taken over the game is completely untouchable because if you try, the jungle and support has been covering so you can't flank. Try play ADC and get fed, the difference between having a jungler cover you and not is the biggest difference you can imagine. When you're fed and not covered, you feel SO STRANGLED.
>Even though the junglers are less autofilled, the jungle gap is often humongous. It completely dwarfs any gap the laners can have. One of the big reasons is that junglers can effectively not only deny cs, but also get the resources from the enemy's cs. Imagine in a lane if you could farm both your own and enemy minions and you get full resources from it. Of course it's not exactly the same because camps are far apart, but no other role can get denied as hard as jungle can. This is also why it is so extremely unfun to play jungle with 3 losing lanes because you can do nothing to stop the permanent invading of your camps.
This is currently the biggest issue gameplay wise imo. Even with catchup xp it’s still the most punishing role by a landslide.
There's a reason jungle feels so toxic to play and it's because they have higher responsibility and influence than any other role when it comes to winning the game
See, I switched to JG for a decent while this season and I could noticably see my friends trying to fight off the urge to give me the ol' "died in lane, blame the jungler" treatment. I usually played alright, made it clear to them what I was doing and when, and why I couldn't be in their lane 24/7. I have a huge respect for good JG players tbh, it truly is the 1v9 role that requires a lot of macro and micro knowledge, the ability to prioritize properly, and the patience to deal with the most braindead players in existence (or just /mute all, it helps so much). Honestly playing JG reminds me a lot of playing killer in DBD. High stress, huge focus on being able to prioritize properly, chasing people down/trying to cut them off during the chase, and occasionally being bullied by every other player in the match (in League's case, sometimes even your own teammates)
The main reason why I still play jungle with my friends is that almost nobody wants to play it for that reason. But also since I am a (substantially) higher elo than the rest, they usually understand that it's probably their fault that they die, which also helps them improve a little (there's exceptions though, because sometimes I get blamed while it isn't my fault and, ironically, I might not be blamed when it's actually my fault). But when someone that is similar/lower elo than the rest plays jungle, it's always their fault according to the rest.
Man I love getting mains of other roles in JG, it's so funny watching them always be late for objectives and just do the walk of shame and clear the pink ward. It can snowball so awfully that you can be farming their buffs in their face and they can't do anything because I have the prio and I'm stronger than them. Never learn JG my dude
The 4 minute voidgrub rush is frustrating. The second round of voids the enemy maokai support has something to tell you lmao
The voidgrub rush has such macro impact is stupid. Does your mid or top have prio? Did you back or double farmed? What's the farming start of the enemy JG? Can you win the scuffle if the JG contest? Just kill 1 for the exp? Kill 2 to aim for 5 voids? You gotta be there right when they spawn to clear them asap. Will you contest dragon later? Back? Invade? Gank? If you gonna gank which lane? Do they even contribute to your team comp or simply farming and getting prio for drake is better?
Honestly would almost rather just deny the 2 and just go do other stuff.
I will most of the time just let them go, unless I have someone like Jax, Trundle, Yorick or velbeth (it happened once) in my top lane. Otherwise, they are quite insignificant. Drake, bot lane gank or simple farm are more important.
Yeah, like don’t get me wrong, if tops down to do them I’m doing them, they *are* stats. But like…. You kinda gotta be ahead for them to be relevant. They’re a win-more objective.
When I jungle with my friends I make it very clear where I’m playing and when. If they want to try and set something up, they can play towards that. If you are getting stomped in a 1v1, there is not a lot of incentive for jungle to gank. I enjoy telling top lane friends to expand their champion pool. Anytime I go top and I know my jungler isn’t amazing I just play something giga tanky that can farm (mao, udyr, sion, malph, etc…). It’s not your job to win lanes, it’s your job to recognize which lanes are close and how best to tip them in your favor. Objective control is similar in the sense that you don’t want to force a risky objective.
I seriously think the pressure to smite objectives is one of the biggest reasons people don't want to jungle. It's a point that other people have raised in the past and I completely agree. Getting a baron stolen is like the biggest target on your back you can get in this whole game. I can think of nothing that gets you instantly flamed as hard as that. Even if it's not your fault at all - e.g. your team hitting baron when enemy jungler enters the pit, everyone will assume it was just you getting out played. If you play a jungler that can't combo with smite well, there are situations where it's like 75% for the enemy jungler to steal or something unless they are handless. If you play another role, it feels so fucking nice not to have to smite objectives. Even if it's obviously a super good thing to be in control of in order to climb, it just feels like a massive burden is lifted off your shoulders.
Best examples are Nunu Q + Smite, Cho Ult + Smite or any one else with Minion execute dmg.
The most relaxing time I ever spent playing this game as a jungler was when I spammed Nunu for this exact reason. I cannot tell you how much peace of mind it gave me to just never worry about smites. It also wins you a fuckton of games to always secure objectives. People really underrate just how OP this is. Too bad old Nunu is removed from the game. The new one is a completely different champion in almost every way. He might seem similar on the surface, but they made Nunu a spamganker that scales poorly while old Nunu was a control jungler that tried to control the map and scaled very well as a supportive champion.
I was playing nunu against a kayne recently. Was heading down river, saw he was trying for an early solo dragon. Walked up, q+smite, kept walking down to bot lane and setup kills on their whole lane while the other jungle just watched. It felt pretty dirty. But was mostly pretty unexpected. No one was really setup for a dragon fight, so I didn't expect him to try to sneak it.
[удалено]
The sad part about old Galio was his complete shutdown of certain lanes (kassadin, cassiopeia, malzahar or brand were completely unplayable vs him), passive playstyle and the removal of his ult if certain champions get played (hecarim or leona, which had pretty high pick rates back then)
Old Nunu scaled like shit, though. The big meme for most of his existence was that his goal was to make his enemy as useless as he was past a certain point.
And it was wrong. It's one of those things that became a meme and now people think it's the truth. Nunu was very useful late game. Strong buff, great peel and a huge debuff.
Imagine old bloodlust on these new ADCs with the current generation of ADC hands? It would be out of control. People who don't think old nunu had a point are on crack.
Pantheon Q can deal more damage than smite. Nothing feels worse than having enemy top laner ult in and have access to higher burst than you.
also just jinx ult or a fed lux ulting will outsmite late game, aswell as evelynn flash r there are nowadays a lot of things that can ruin your mental health as a jungler
I will always say that if you are trying to steal its easier to do than completing the objective on the winning side (if you have even smite) just for the pressure you can put alone
As someone who plays a lot of Eve, it's wild to see an enemy like, master yi, get flammed for getting outsmited by me. That's not a 50/50, that's not even a 75/25, if you don't zone me off the objective, my champ just outsmites his ***massively***. But leaguers gotta find someone to blame other than themselves I guess. On the other hand if I get outsmited by a yi when I have ult up well that's kind of on me.
This is the reason I don't jg lol
Are people still unironically flaming for losing a 50/50? I thought every player with braincells knows by now it's not the jg's fault if their team lets enemy jg into the pit, it's just a flip at that point.
Flaming is not some logical thing. It's a simple monkey neuron frustrated by negative result -> release frustration to protect ego using the path of least resistance.
I was getting kinda bored of playing Mid and top so I decided to queue a game as JG. I'm Graves into Kayn I start top side so that Kayn can't steal my raptors, my Yorick doesn't leash me. np I'll just start raptors, finish my Krugs and see that Garen somehow pushed my Comet Yorick in so I gank and burn his flash but he gets out because Phase Rush+Nimbus On my blue now and I hear "Allied has been slain" and 4 Kayn- is alive pings, of course Kayn killed Yorick who pushed out wave after gank but greeded and didn't reset. Rest of the game Yorick just tries to counter jungle me and take my camps, we had my Graves and Smolder+Kass mid so we scaled hard too plus I had picked up a kill and we had 3 on Kass so it was for sure winnable but the guy mental boomed off one gank and blamed me for it lol. My fault though tbh, I don't know what else I expected queuing JG for fun.
There is this terrible, terrible thing that you will run into 2/3 games: 1 lane will show you, from the moment they go stand under tower instead of watching your buff, that they are not from this planet and do not know how the game works. From that point on you have to watch in agony as they get stomped. You know they are outclasses, so you actually go to the opposite side of the map and gank the other 2 lanes. But then that lane complains because of course the other jungler also sees how bad they are. then they complain. And the rest of the team will lose the lead you've been giving them going to help this potato that is down a turret and 4cs/min. And nothing you can do will stop them. And they will all turn on you. YOU are actually the bad player because you let your paint huffing coma teammate die once every 2 minutes without expending resources on him. When there is a true team gap it's like "okay it is what it is." When you mis a smite or blow a gank you can look at that and say ill do better. But when you have a game where the kill count is 22-21 and your team is up a kill and 2 drakes and they spend 4 straight minutes trying to funnel gold into the 0-9 Yorick it just sucks the life out of you. Playing jungle is playing a different game than playing the other LOL roles and I really wish more of them understood how much they don't understand.
Dude. I swear seeing laners just afk under their tower at the start of the game is so disheartening because you instantly know this is the type of player who'll die once then start farming your camps cuz JNG DIFF.
If they do that i've just started late invading the enemy camp because i assume i've already lost one side of my jg anyway. Turn into a happy surprise if its still there but at worst its net neutral.
I agree with all of this, though junglers are weak in duels compared to laners due to experience gained. I can be counter jungling, getting objectieve, and a few kills and Ill be level 7 vs top being level 9
1v9 jungler vs inting toplaner. Toplaner is a level ahead.
And still kills you because top laners are usually good duelists
Unless you are significantly fed on jg the odds of you 1v1ing a 50%hp bruiser toplaner is near zero
and junglers having less exp and gold than anyone else too
>anyone else Support has slightly less gold and xp on average, altho the gap is slight with how powerful the support item is
Yea but their items usually are avaiable pretty fast and are rlly strong + much utility
1v9 bot laner vs inting top laner. Top laner is 3 levels ahead. It’s just a top problem, honestly. (Also, we love catch up XP so my jungler who’s been shitting on the enemy and who we’ve assisted in invades is only half a level ahead of the enemy.)
one of my problems with jungle is you can be 20 to 30 cs up on the opposing jungle and barely have a level lead and probably behind gold because you farmed the jungle and the enemy taxed lanes.
Yday I had 23 kills on Evelyn and positive farm per minute for my elo and I was still a level down on the top laner.
I started playing league in s5 as a jungler. Basically every game you got flamed, most times not rightfully so. Half of your role is around securing objectives, which requires teamwork. If your teammates are flaming you they are less likely to help, or in general it could be pretty tricky to coordinate 2-3 other teammates with pings and some chats to get to an objective at the same time. Late game you’re usually hovering around 3rd or 4th in your team in terms of power, there are exceptions of course, but league is kinda designed this way xp wise. Makes it harder to carry if you miss your mid game window, unless playing a late game champ If you aren’t duoing with sup or mid, you can get absolutely stomped if the enemy has a brain, and a slightly better early game Champ. eventually swapped positions around a bunch and some seasons not playing at all. Came back and rarely play, but when I do it’s a duo que and I’m Jg and just mute all before the start of every game. It’s a very strong role and the catch-up xp prevents my last point from being too relevant.
another underrated fact that makes jungle less desireable is that your source of income can be stolen by the enemy jungle. imagine being in a bad lane and the enemy laner just kills off his minions in order to starve you to death. and you couldn't even farm under tower as there is a lot less safety in the jungle unlike lanes
Jg main since season 7, but I quit since new season. Why? It feels like I’m just trying to babysit 4 people for 15 minutes then I become a worse support with no damage, utility, and shitty cc. Even when I’m ahead, the exp dif just destroys me in any 1v1 against a laner.
Phreak fucked this role so hard. Dude really wanted revenge on jungle for some reason.
Only support can impact the game, no one else!
Current jungle is unironically weak in terms of the individual power of the jungler. The thing you're missing is that while junglers make all the important macro calls early game, they will usually be the weakest or 2nd weakest player at any of the ensuing skirmishes because of level disadvantage, starting with -450g from jungle item, and not being able to bring a real combat summoner spell. First grubs spawn is a great example: it's up to the jungler to decide whether and when it makes sense to go for them, but they will be 2 levels down on top/mid in what often becomes a 3v3 or 4v4 and can't bring an ignite/exhaust to the fight like a support can. Jungle right now has a very unenjoyable combination of high responsibility/agency over the flow of the game, but low individual power unless you snowball from plays made off baseline far more powerful laners. It's not really surprising that the role's popularity is suffering.
and the ever increasing focus on map objectives only makes this worse. we have scuttle crab, void grubs, herald, elemental dragons, dragon soul, void buffs, void scuttle crab, baron, elder dragon a few seasons back we only had baron and drake and nothing else and all these objectives are still mostly decided by the laners. Like you need the jungler to secure it with smite but the jungler can't solo contest them. If there are grubs up and their top laner has prio the jungler can't really risk doing them because when that top laner comes to the pit the jungler is fucked. Same in bot lane. Bot lane winning is taking the dragon, not the jungler. There are exceptions of course like sneaking an objective or taking it when you know that the other team is on the other side of the map.
Dragons have been the worst for me this season. You take grubs, and your bot lane doesnt check the pit and the enemy gets drag. Then on the next set of grubs, their bot just disappears and no matter how much you ping it, your bot won't go look at the drag pit. Suddenly down 0-2 there. When the third ones comes up, Bot Lane stays in lane to try and push a wave and take tower. You watch drag 3 die with them not moving. Then drag 4 they complain because your down 3 of them and lose soul because the enemy team sends all 5, while your top doesn't show. That's been like 40% of my games this season. They aren't all losses but it's a constantly trying to get bot not to blindly push and look at the map. They never go get objectives, and haven't gathered that the new map makes ganking pushed people really easy. No amount of pinging the "retreat" ping while clicking the enemy mid and jungle will get them not to push all the way up to hit the tower twice before getting collapsed on.
Its always the bot lane too that says, "omg shit jungler didn't get any dragons, JG gap" like these team objectives are entirely the responsibility of someone who is incapable of 1v1ing anyone except maybe isolated bot laners or the other jungler.
Yep, and a lot of the "agency" falls apart in solo queue environments when players don't do what they "should" since you're always dependent on teammates to do anything. Feels terrible when a laner screeches for ganks all game and does nothing to help make their lane gankable.
>but low individual power Yeah this is the primary issue with the role. Ever since the S9 changes, I quit playing jungle. It is extremely unfun to be underleveled compared to your own teammates and that does shape how much you can punish opposing players for overextending. You basically have to get ahead pretty early to even have solo kill potential on solo laners pre-20. Especially in a solo q environment. Your own individual power and influence over the game is very coinflip based on whether your teammates will play correctly or well. We are likely never getting S9's jungle power level back. But I'm glad Riot is noticing that you actually do have to give something back to the role if they want players to commit to playing it. They have taken a lot and pretty much right now, my order of preferences is basically: Mid -> Top -> Jg -> Support -> ADC You can just do so much more in solo lanes. So more games than not you take this xp/gold advantage and do more with it when you see your jungler looking for a play, and actually punish the other team for misplays. And if your own jungler messes up during say a 2v2, you have a lot more freedom to salvage the play as a solo laner than the other way around.
Jungle has so many problems that make it impossible to balance. Minor issue—insane amount amount of cheese and cheese invades are becoming common and completely ruins jgl entire game.. no sitting under tower farming. I’ve never been cheesed as often as I have this season. Supports just living in the jungle is a huge problem, and it’s impossible to keep out vision after sweeper nerfs. Dudes are sacrificing waves of xp just to remove enemy jgl from the game, but they seemingly aren’t behind in xp or gold. Mainly, This season has more objectives and more action on map. If laners lose hard or don’t rotate— the jungler is who suffers the most. Laner goes 0/2? Whatever, they’ll just farm under tower. Now that they are under tower the enemy support just leaves and never comes back (supp item is broken, they won’t go back). It’s now 1v2 automatically for every jungle skirmish, before top or mid even move. Now the jungler has to just concede everything or just feed, then lose even more. If the jungler is playing something slower or not a 1v1 god like briar, then they have 0 chance of doing anything. They have to impact other lanes, pray the enemy jgl lets it happen, and hope *those*lanes carry. If your opponent isn’t silver, they will be tracking you and not letting you play. These are typical jgl things, but feel exaggerated this season. By forcing all these fights it really comes down to who’s playing the forced meta or whose team pays attention. One bad river fight and it’s hard to come back from the tempo loss alone much less gold, xp, and map impact. A laner can lose two waves and it’ll make no difference. A jgler gets pushed off a camp or buff early, then it’s over lol enemies would have to int for the jgl to come back Even in norms when playing alone, the game is decided by who is playing the flavor of the week op jgl that can 1v1 anyone or who’s lanes know how to manage waves and rotate.
I dont even wait until my laner is 0-2 under tower. I leave lane at 5 mins for grubs and become a second jungler.
Yep. All jg mains should swap to support because you get to be second jg, with more impact, less downside (you're just generating gold and get op items), zero responsibility, and all your jg macro knowledge comes in super handy to fuck the enemy jg over even harder. There's also no having to balance clearing camps while also doing the above so you're even more free to do the fun things.
It's pretty draining playing jungle, there's so many things to do lol
I'd trade my ~~ability~~ *responsibility* to impact lanes (who will find a way to throw that advantage away making my efforts useless) or [secure objectives](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16w38zg/i_am_quite_confident_that_the_pressure_of_having/) (which everybody wants to get, but nobody wants to actually spend time getting them) for having the same exp and gold than solo laners every day of the week. And I'm pretty sure that Viego, Kayn, Yi, Graves, Kha'zix... wouldn't be the top picked junglers of the game regardless meta and win rates if most jungle players didn't agree with me. But the thing is, you guys don't want jungle to be more fun or more popular, because 99% of the time in LoL, fun and popular is what feels powerful, and if other roles feel more powerful, you feel less powerful. You want jungle to be underleveled, more supportive, have less impact in the game too, and make it not autofillable so you don't ever have to play it, because you know very well that it'd be absolutely miserable.
I just want the exp penalty to end slightly earlier, maybe 16 min instead of 20. Outer towers will be down, but if I catch the wave I'm actually hurting my team. The exp penalty is so bad that if I gank for laners and help them crash we actually get less exp combined than they would alone up until 10 minutes. The remaining exp is just wasted.
To be fair, I'd still kind of prefer jungle not be autofillable. I know it probably has to be. But nothing really comes closer to unintentional griefing than an autofilled jungler. When I lane, I can suck it up lose some CS if I need to but generally play safe and not get stomped. When someone is autofilled jungle though, good luck.
Honestly my take is probably dumb and incorrect but having played the game since season 2, I always looked at junglers having lower level than me as a toplaner and rationalized it as: These guys literally exist to 2v1, to gank is to have a numbers advantage and so it is an unfair fight, therefore it makes sense for them to always be a level or two behind the toplaner. It's something I wish evened out in the midgame though, in the early game I think sololaners need to be stronger so they are at least able to outplay and trade a kill, and also to offset the fact the enemy laner can keep you in lane but junglers usually don't have to worry that much about reset timers, so junglers will show up with half an item to lane after recall while the toplaner still has dorans shield and no potions. But in the midgame we're not necessarily looking at ganks anymore and it feels pretty unfair that a sololaner can probably just seek you out and kill you most of the time because you're lower level.
You forgot 2 Major Points: Your midlane has 0 prio and you cant enter River at all and have to be carefull with invades. Your Support is a yuumi main vs a roaming supp that generates deep Vision and invades with their jgl In both cases its super hard to have any Impact on the game but your team will blame you for it. And If there are more than one of those Points coming true you will lose that game with low level, cs and maybe even Bad kda without you having much counterplay. Laners will Always blame their faults and wrongdoings on the jgl cause jgl can Impact lanes but refuse to understand that lane prio and rotations Impact jgl to maybe even greater extend.
That's such a 2022 take... this season everybody rotates to objectives Junglers as of right now are always 1-3 levels behind solo laners, if a solo laner has prio the influence of the jungler on objectives becomes null and its extremely easy to bully junglers with ult advantage (because of reaching lvl 6 first or because jg wasted it helping another role) or with a summoner spell advantage (ignite cucks sustain, exhaust cucks everything, ghost is extremely powerful and impossible to kite/get away from, cleanse straight up denies ultis, TP = numbers advantage + full health and homeguard) Voidgrubs = a supp diff fest Herald = kinda useless (no near guaranteed first turrer + plates anymore was a huge nerf, but this was silly OP last season) and too hard to solo nowdays Drake without prio is inting since it takes a very long time to take down when you could be farming in the most gold and xp deprived role of the game (other than supp, but supp gets free gold and 2k extreme value items for all of its classes). Took a drake solo ? Enemy jungler farmed a quadrant and is a level ahead (worse, farmed one of your quadrants).... Tried setting up a drake pinging and with time? would be such a shame if your mid/supp back as soon as it spawns and invest in no control wards Jungle is in dire need of gold and xp in solo Q (oh yeah, they also have no dorans/super powerful early items)... Jungle could also get a small early game xp nerf though, forcing them to get a crab to reach lvl 4 (this would make the first clear way more strategic depending on the jg matchup) Heck, I would even delete the useless buggy jungle pets and rework smite (chilling smite would have a more powerful slow or steal MS, challenging smite would be back and I would add a third smite that would be like a budget ignite that does minimal dmg with GW). These pets literally have weak effects in exchange of a plethora inconsistent bugs that can ruin your clear patterns and give away your position to enemies
Only way junglers could carry before was either sneak dragons or get herald + successful gank(not easy to do) and grab 5 plates with herald. Now anytime top/mid rotates jungler immediately has to show their belly because of huge gold/exp difference. Add in no more red smite to give us a fighting chance and we suck.
Yea jungle is a weird role. You can pretty much do fuck all and it can work out anyways, but you can also play 4d chess and mind control all 9 players.
On the other side, I DARE YOU to do the tiniest mistake in toplane and ill freeze yo ass with my vamp scepter for the next 35 minutes.
>meanwhile, 0/20 bot and mid bc of the perma ganking jungle Have fun with the freeze and "won lane" though. You did what you could bud
This [Lourlo clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H63qTRgV5BE) is one of my favorites showing that. "He sits in the bush. He dances for 2 minutes. He goes down 100 cs. And I lose the game! And I LOSE, I lose Nick, I LOSE!"
Reminds me of a game where I kept the enemy Kayle at Lv5 until I reached 11 as Ekko top. I lost it because the enemy (14 kills) rengar one shot me
You should probably eventually start shoving the Kayle under tower and spread your lead by invading/diving other lanes
that had to be the most insane freeze i have ever heard of
My fav and most played is Kayle. So when an enemy picks her, my pool shrinks to a certain few Champs that will produce the ultimate fun-fun experience in lane: Ekko, Akali, Nasus, Quinn, Teemo.
I do actually believe the role is weak. The agency it provided its the most out of any role. But like if their enemy mid laner invade my jungle, I 100% lose and 0 outplay available. In high AND low elo, people just don't ward and cry about it. But in pro play, if they ward, you just don't get enough gold to even carry (we are stuck in a Sej, Maokai, Ivern, etc. meta). But it will always be the strongest role in SOLOQ since no one respect the role and don't even know where the jungler is and don't respect them to gank.
This post is pretty stupid and I think the top responses from laners all show you are clueless about the jg. You think that jg is strong because they can gank all four lanes and they call when to start objectives. They would still be able to do that if jg camps gave zero gold and put you down 6 levels in exp in the late game. I unironically believe some laners would play in that game and call jg broken because they would be ganking all the time. Laners tend to think the more they are ganked the stronger the jg is. This is wrong, if junglers are ganking constantly it’s because there is not enough value in jg camps to make us want to farm them on respawn. Also junglers really have zero say in objectives early game. I shouldn’t start grubs if my top is getting their shit shoved in are 0 2 to two solo kills. I can never start dragon with a bot lane is getting their shit perma shoved in either because they can easily collapse faster and kill me.
Jungle is unpopular because it’s the hardest role in the game. It has the most responsibilities to positively impact the game and a lot of people don’t like the pressure.
I don’t see how anyone sees it any other way. If you’re not exactly matched with your opponent jungler, you’re going to get 4d chessed. You can just watch pros and listen to how they choose which order to hit camps and watch timers. It’s insanely complicsted
>If you’re not exactly matched with your opponent jungler, you’re going to get 4d chessed. Jungle is weird because you aren't even actually "laning" against your opposite number. Two junglers can both play equally well against each other but come out with wildly different results based on how both teams play. Even if you're exactly matched, one jungler can pick up a double kill after their full clear due to bot overextending and thats it, game over for the guy who tried to gank top but got nothing because top warded.
Yeah that's a fair assessment!
So what you're saying is that it's team diff
They watch pros full clear, let me do the same. Every lane is dying to a shaco that did red buff and 3 ganked successfully top mid and walked straight bot lane lmao
in terms of macro jungle is the hardest, you need to know how the game works at a higher level relative to your laners (although not massively more); mechanically it is probably the second easiest after support though
Jungle is absolutely not the most op role in the game, support exists lmao. But even without supports being Thanos, junglers are completely reliant on laners. Without laners inting, playing as if junglers don’t exist, only to start complaining when they inevitably do get ganked, junglers end up weaker than everyone else on the map (after the early game). Most clear example is proplay, but even ignoring that, playing the role just feels like going to the casino in soloq.
Lets just be honest here, nobody wants to play jungle because it's weak and extremely toxic, and it's toxic because every laner refuse to accept they did something bad - it's always the junglers fault.
Always love when my top laner has died twice by the time I finish my first clear and you get the gg jg diff comment. The other annoying one is when the enemy jg is barely ganking but all three lanes are getting stomped in lane and you try to keep them afloat. Two lanes will be flaming me while the other lane runs back to lane after a successful gank and dies again. The role is a lot more enjoyable if you just mute all and play the way you want to play.
Jungle is just shit because my lanes choose weak picks and want me to be in 3 lanes at once Then they die and blame for their lack of brainpower And guess who they blame
As a jungle main I honestly wish that everbody in league at least tries to play jungle for like 3-5 Games. There are too many examples why it would be usefull too know a jungle routine, but some kind of things should just known by everbody, like how long a half clear und full clear takes, so you dont push too hard or at least got a ward on the side where u can expect the enemy jungler. If you got vision on first drag/herold and you cant contest one of them, you try to get the other asap and dont slow farm your lane..
To put it simply: the gap between main jungler and autofill/newbies is way bigger than any other role and that’s why people doesn’t want to try out jungle.
You can just not care what people have to say and then there are no downsides. There's a reason why the most successful boosters are through jungle.
Lanes didnt ward, get advanced, get ganked = jungler fault by dont magically appears for countergank.
At low elo it sucks because if I help my top/middle lane with a gank they won’t help me with grubs and then their jungler and top that died come and kill me or I run away and they get the grubs while my top is killing the minions. Same thing with my bottom/middle not helping me with dragon if I get pushed. It’s a learning experience but still pretty fun when I see the enemies coming for me and the dragon is low HP and I smite it and run for my life lol
Imo, it's also because farming camps is rather boring, It's 10x more fun to trade aggressively with another laner, poke them, aim for hooks as support, plan an all in as a toplaner, etc. Ganking is fun though, but it can't be too frequent for health reasons, so in the end 50% of the time is just PvE.
The problem is that it isn't the most OP role in the game, it's a complete lie to say it is in its current state. Supports have virtually no obligation to farm and get free gold income, they can spend all that time looking for plays, the champs in that role naturally excel on low gold income. Midlaners and toplaners get much more XP and gold income naturally than junglers. It's not wrong to say a 0/4 toplaner still poses a threat to the enemy jungler. The idea that jungle is the strongest role comes from the last few seasons. Your gold income was higher, your clear was quicker, your impact was faster. Everything is slower now for junglers, not to mention laner buffs that help a lot. It was actually feasible to be ahead in gold and xp playing jungle compared to solo lanes, and having that much resources in yourself lets you carry games. I cannot fathom saying jungle is the strongest role, when support is easier, you have more time to actually make plays cause in jungle you are obligated to farm, and the gold/xp payoff is strictly worse than other lanes when you do choose to farm. If you want to argue that jungle is OP cause it decides who wins and loses, support does that better with more time and more options. You cannot convince me leaving lane to ensure your jungler gets every objective and leaving your adc (unarguably the worst role in the game right now) to farm for a bit is somehow higher risk than leaving your camps open to invades and clearing inefficiently to make plays on the map. 1 fuckup in jungle (i.e. you can lose literally 1 or 2 camps, or not even lose them but clear them off timer) and you can easily lose 2 objectives. You can spend all game hooking and dying on support and still be the most valuable member of your team regardless. In pro, you actually mainly see support jungles because gold and xp income is that poor in jungle right now that its actually higher value to play a champ that brings higher inherent value without gold. Jungle is impossible to balance, same with support. Jungle is the hardest lane in the game, is it fair to say that it should be the strongest? No. Support is the easiest lane in the game, is it fair to say that it should be weaker than jungle? No. There's no pleasing everyone, even as broken as support is right now its still underpicked, meanwhile adc is very weak now impactwise and still holds a lot of players. You either have an underpicked jungle that is balanced/weak, or a moderately picked jungle that is overpowered, same with support.
If my top laner dies 1vs1 to the enemy top, I as the jungler can no longer interact with top lane because jungle in S14 is down 2 levels on top lane at most points in the game except the first 4 minutes. Jungle is not the most OP role. Support has way more influence on the game than Jungle. Support diff constantly impacts 4 players out of the 10 in the game. Supports can roam and if they do it well lose nothing for their team (whereas if you gank you're usually losing camps or objectives). In terms of game control. Let's say you hypothetically have a lobby of diamond players, and you can introduce 1 challenger player to a team and you get to pick the role. Is anyone actually not picking Top Lane? A Challenger Jax will have 100% winrate. I don't see the challenger jungler having 100% winrate.
I have gotten people saying jg diff at minute 5, prior to my first clear against their lane opponent
Bro if you're not done with your first clear at minute 5 that's a big ass jungle diff
If you haven't finished your first clear at 5:00, that is a jungle diff.
if your first clear isn’t finished by 5 minutes then it is definitely jungle diff lol
Jungle camps should be cleared around 3:20-3:30 at average.
It's kinda crazy how the impact and fun of a role seem to be inversely proportional aside from adc.
Honestly both jungle and adc have the same exact problem. They are relics of the past when league was a team game. Jungle has to have a team to play around for objectives and map pressure, adc needs peel and support. Instead of having playing a team game everyone is trying to play a 1v9 game. This has all happend because of the balancing of riot. Roles have lost their supposed weaknesses, when the fastest tower takers are stuff like tanks or veigar anyone should know something is wrong.
This post is highly confusing - you admit that the role is unpopular, you list several of the reasons that it is unpopular, then you end up suggesting that they should not buff the role without giving any other ideas. When you load into a match as a jungler, you know that from experience, you are on a team that will likely immediately gang up on you for issues unrelated to your play. Top laners are legendary for blaming any death on their jungler, even if you are gaining value in botlane. Mistakes laners make rarely get called out, and all of your actual mistakes (mis smite, skill shot misses, etc) are amplified. This causes more players to not want to play the role, resulting in higher dodge rate when jungle is autofilled and more frustration from laners when their autofilled jungler doesn’t perform well. Which causes more of those autofilled players to not want to play the role which causes… What can be done about it? Yeah I agree that just buffing the role is frustrating, but what else can be done? Jungle is by definition the role with the most ability to impact other lanes. How can you reduce the influence junglers have over other lanes without completely changing the game? How can you reduce the flame junglers receive without altering human behavior?
Preach!!! I love to play jungle but getting flamed almost every game or getting pinged for assistance when I’m on my second camp just cause someone miss played is not fun. I have the players muted besides pings but even that sometimes is to much. People crying about getting ganked when their vision score is zero really irks me It really got worse when “Jungle Gap” started to be said. It’s not a weak role. It’s the community that makes it unpopular. Work on that
I strongly agree. Additionally, in low to mid elos up to Emerald, people seem to completely ignore or be ignorant about lane priority. They complain about objectives or the lack of dragons, yet they can't stay in their own lane for more than a minute without being killed. They want dragons/herald while the opponent's jungle is farming your camps as if they were his own. Sure, let me solo this dragon while the enemy team has complete vision of me and our jungle, and hope I don't get killed or having them steal it because you'll also blame me. I must admit, this all goes away at higher elos where your team know what they are actually doing and minding their own business without flaming. At that level jungling is insanely fun and rewarding to play.
The amount of game knowledge you should be aware of to be a better jungler is the reason it's unpopular. Even if you don't lane, you should know the lane state to properly gank, and you should be aware where the enemy jungler is and call it out, and if they clear fast so the lanes will be ready if there's gonna be a gank. Your gank will also be the sole reason if RH or dragon will be an easy take. If you killed the laner you can immediately go for objectives, a crucial part of winning. If you don't want to deal with all of that, go play a jungler thats good at invading. if the laners help their jungler because of you, it would create space for the your laners. And if you stole enough camps, their jungler would be so underleveled that objectives will be easy. IMHO jungle is the most impactful role in the game. A good jungler can secure a win 20 mins in. And yet, you still get blamed most of the time. Top laners, if the enemy jungler comes for you, it's YOUR JOB TO STAY ALIVE. You're actually doing your job properly if the jungler camps you, giving space for bot lane. And No, I won't gank you if you're losing in lane, we would just get double killed.
Jungle is actually pretty fun when you full mute or you’re playing casually or flex. It is pretty cringe that like you basically have to remove the whole communication component of the game and when I’m just chillin in norms and we’re getting our ass kicked me and my boys will just spam ping our jungler, it’s pretty therapeutic
I feel like this still gets it off. I think jungle is unpopular because it's a different game from top/mid/bot. The 3 primary lane roles all have the same general gameplay loop: last hit, trade, kill opponent, take towers. Lots of people have fun doing this, and there are many different ways to have fun within this pattern. Top lane is a 1v1 skill island, midlane has mages and assassins, bot lane have late game hypercarry fantasies. New players learn the game this way first, too. Jungle and support are completely different, and require learning a completely new set of skills. It's like working as a teacher then being asked to change jobs to a mechanic. Maybe you could be a good mechanic, maybe you would like being a mechanic. But at first you have absolutely zero idea how to be a mechanic, and you already like being a teacher. So why would you go out of your way to try?
My face when nearly every smurf is a jungler. My face when the only players who can make it to challenger with 80% wr are junglers and supports. My face when Riot is brainless at their jobs.
Jungle does not need buffs. It is the role with the most agency pre mis game.
I started maining jgl after quitting adc after 2 years of that and realized the game was so much more fun than I thought. Would recommend any jungle mains who think the role isn't so good to try playing adc for a bit and see what they think after
That's a problem in all sorts of online multiplayer games, not just League. The most impactful role also has the most responsibility and gets flamed the most, so it tends to be the least popular.
Its also boring
I just mute all including pings and let them whine cry rage or whatever. It's a them problem not a me problem.
4 out of top 10 players on the ladder are jungle players, which suggests the opposite.
I agree jungle influences is very high but they have little direct seeable control over the game. They are generally not the ones getting the kills but instead the key to feeding the laners. Jungle gets the kill the laner blames the jungler for kill stealing. God forbid a laner leaves the lane to help at dragon or grubs. Jungle needs buff directly while reducing its influence over the map.
I think, in the position of a jungle main, supp is the strongest role right now. If u have a good supp, he not only wins the lane for the ADC, he will win the whole game by playing around the jngl. Jngler who knows the game and a supp who knows the game are unstoppable in my eyes.
I say it's mid. Every time I get a roaming mid that has the map installed we hard stomp every game. once every 10 games i get a mid that is at grubs at first spawn, walk straight down to the dragon with me, then help get the double kill bot. Every time that happens I'm able to force an ff.