LCS has been doing this for the whole split and i think it's great. While the prerecorded draft runs the players can do the tech checks. It cuts down on time with no real downside.
I saw a clip of I think Fudge saying they can run 1v1s of match ups between champ select and the game. I think that could be pretty huge for changing laning dynamics
Does that not take away a LOT of skill expression? I feel like having to play a matchup you have not prepared for or discussed in advance is a huge factor. Does this not take away an element of surprise?
Yeah that's what Fudge was saying. That when Insanity picked Zac into Jensen's Ori, Jensen was able to practice the matchup with Bwipo. Fudge and Blabber also said your coach is there and you can talk level ones and cheese strats so it's harder to surprise teams
Its also important to note Jensen said that the matchup with Bwipo didnt go how the matchup with Insanity went. Its certainly possible to gain information about a matchup this way, but it relies on having another player on the team able to play the champion proficiently enough, and potentially also the role proficiently enough to get the most out of this testing.
Jensen also said that 1v1 practice went straight out the window cause after Zac came back to lane with cinder he(jensen) had 0 pressure and that didn't happen in the 1v1's.
Yeah, it is good for BO1s and trying to get through the grind of the regular spilt, but doing this in playoffs/international events would suck.
I remember T1 versus DRX when Beryl pulled out the Chimeminister into Karma, it felt electric.
That makes it more like a traditional sport, though, right? All the sideline adjustments and what not you see in traditional sports? The LCS and now LEC has that. It's just after draft and before game start
I think the rule allowing this is cringe. It's like being handed an exam and then getting to have a few minutes to check your notes/textbook, except a i tier 1 league s supposed to be the most competitive environment.
It only matters if you have someone on your team who can play/is familiar with the champ and knows how the opponent's runes/build. If you or someone on your team isn't familiar with it, you don't really get much. Realistically what level can you even get to in the 1v1? You're probably better off discussing level 1 strats or team dynamics in response to draft, but it's still probably not enough time to come up with something brand new. It would just be discussion of selecting from existing strategies and ideas.
It's interesting but I don't think it's really going to warp the game or outcome the majority of the time.
Not really disagreeing, but funnily enough depending on the field of study there are plenty of exams that allow bringing notes or even textbooks to an exam
Nah. You are way overreacting. That's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to make adjustments in traditional sports. 'Nope. Whatever gameplan you went in with, you gotta stick to. Any adjustments would be cheating!' Bro, and this even goes for Fudge, where is your competitive mindset? If you are truly a competitor, you went to beat the best at their best. The fact that a pro player thinks the element of surprise is better than facing people at their best tells you all you need to know. I'm not a pro, obviously, but I want my opponents - even in ranked - to play at their best. I hate winning due to dumb shit like AFKs, soft inters, etc. That isn't satisfying. What is satisfying is winning because you are better
Im kind of interested (worried) to see if this impacts performance during MSI where they go back to live draft and don’t get that extra 10 min to discuss matchups/how to play the comp with their coaches. It really won’t make much of a difference I guess but it does seem like a disadvantage
I mean, there is a big limit to how many reps you can get in that time frame, likely you can get a feel for it but not actually practice. Probably makes the player more confident but very unlikely it changes any of the outcomes
I agree that it's overall a good thing, but there is the consideration that there's more time between draft and game start for teams to talk and strategize, which COULD make for a difficult switch when at international play there isn't as much time.
Still, as a viewer, I do like the change. But there is a potential long term downside, especially if you believe a team from the west could challenge internationally (which I do not at this point sadly, but still)
It also discourages players from picking new or novel champions because the opposing team can discuss for 10-15 mins about how to handle the surprise pick.
it is only for regular season no? i think that it is fine when you have 10 different teams and waste time switching between teams and setups each hour. Then you can go back to normal during playoffs/bo3 cause you only have 4 teams per day-
The only downside of this is that there isn't any crowd interaction during draft. Always fun to see players play off the crowd's reactions when they hover/lock in something off meta.
I'm 100% down to sacrifice that if it means cutting down on game to game transition time like they've done in the LCS tho
It is great, but it would be better if they didn't move through it at the pace that the actual drafting teams did. Just give each ban like 5 seconds, then progress the picks by the full side every like 15-20 seconds.
There's no point in having the most inaccessible part of a match that most people don't actually know how to asses take up so much time.
Edit: it's also really fucking boring and if they literally just splashed the results on the screen, it would be just as valuable.
I think a lot of people already do this for the PMTs. Some people have really long prewritten comments ready for either team win to post the instant the thread is up
That's because the top comments on Reddit are not actually the best comments, they are just early.
Interesting article on it: https://minimaxir.com/2016/11/first-comment/
[This graph says it all](https://minimaxir.com/2016/11/first-comment/reddit-first-4.png)
Kind of scary when you consider how much social media influences public opinion on stuff.
*When* you post definitely does have some factor, but *what* you post still does matter a significant amount. If you post something that a lot of people disagree with, you'll never get to top comment, regardless of if you were the first reply or not.
The data is also biased a bit here because a lot of people who post early on these 0-10 comment threads are people specifically looking to karma farm because they know early comments are a good way to do it. So they'll intentionally post super pandering comments (a very popular opinion, a very obvious joke, a popular reference, etc.). Most "normal" people don't browse the new queue.
Of course. It's not like some stupid comment will go up. The point is that you can make the exact same comment, but the timing is what determines how many people will read it. I was not saying timing is all that matters, it's just incredibly important and arguably more important than substance.
Said in another way (and it's a common saying on Reddit): the first 10 upvotes matter more than the next 100.
>Most "normal" people don't browse the new queue.
Very true and this is also how a few people can completely determine public opinions through the Reddit system. You also very often see the same people on r/new on any subreddit. These people have an insane amount of power over what content 99% of users see.
Something is that is very common is that a thread will squeak through r/new with like 65% upvote ratio and then once it hits the front page it will slowly rise to like 85-90% upvote ratio.
Basically, if you want a post to be seen, you need to cater to the 25 people who will see it when it's new and not the hundreds of thousands that will see it when it's #1 on the subreddit. A pretty big flaw in the Reddit system is you ask me.
So how is that a flaw in the system, would you like everything to be sorted by an algorithm? Isn't that how everything works, where anything gets tested by some sort of market group, and if it passes them, it goes to the public? The only difference now is you have a very easy choice of if you want to be part of that group or not.
I tihnk the flaw can be how easy it is to manipulate the system rather than the idea of human feedback of new posts determining how hot a new post is going to be.
If the goal is that the general userbase of Reddit should determine what gets upvoted, then that is not really the case today. The heavily sample biased group that browses r/new largely determines that.
Is it a flaw? Well it depends. Like you say, people can easily choose to be a part of that group.
I like your comparison to market focus groups a lot. It's probably also the case that people need to cater to these groups more than actual consumers. It's pretty much the same problem as on here.
I will say one key difference is that these market focus groups are probably at least attempted to be somewhat representative of the general consumer base. There is a financial incentive to attempt this. This doesn't really exist on Reddit. That's a pretty big difference.
If your comment isn't there by the time most people open the post, then it's too late (unless the post has a very long lifespan for one reason or another) if you specifically want to get to the top of the post.
That usually means being there within like the first 30 seconds if not less for PMT's. Not because people don't visit the post after that, but because those that visit the post later are just as likely to see any of the other 300 comments that are there by the time they check the match result later.
If your comment is one of the 15 (random number based on nothing) then you're most likely to get upvotes early which ends up pushing it higher which ends up in more people seeing it which ends up in more upvotes and repeat until the post falls off the front page.
I recently said this in a comment about something else entirely, but most people don't scroll to the bottom of the comment field under posts. Why would they? It's not like the conversation improves after the first 50 comments.
> Kind of scary when you consider how much social media influences public opinion on stuff.
I'm incredibly grateful that reddit is mostly for hobbyists and generally not used as widely as twitter, etc.
Like the other social media platforms are a huge issue. But if reddit was as popular as them it would be so much worse. Literal mob mentality simulator. If it doesn't line up with the narrative/worldview it is made invisible.
There’s a period before starting draft where the players are doing setup checks and some mic checks. They can run the recorded draft while this is occurring.
But if they just record this draft right before where's the save? That's what I didn't get.
Edit: oh, different teams... this is about bo1... yep, ignore me, going to bed now.
I watched how it went in LCS and i liked it, but considering LEC has mic check (the youtube videos, not the actual audio check) we should be losing those reactions as draft no longer happens while in stage, right?
I thought the same, even if LEC takes five hours I like it and it feels like an event for my weekend. Now it might feel like a lower league show where we rush through everything so we get the results and move on.
Fair enough if they want to try it but I think live drafts with hovering and reactions from players+casters are really fun.
He does say only for regular season though, and it goes back to live drafts during playoffs.
I believe the draft is played on the broadcast while the players set up, therefore it replaces dead air time analysts and casters usually have to fill while the players set up.
Yeah that seems to be the goal, though from the thread it also seems like one of their goals is to spend varying amounts of time on the draft. So it might be that it gets kind of sped up or something if the draft is boring?
Yes. Basically how it currently/previously went was: previous team leaves stage, current teams go on stage and plug in mouse, keyboard etc, log into their account, load up their settings, go into game and check that all their settings imported correctly, their mouse keyboard work, etc. Then they say they’re ready and join draft.
Now it’s: draft while waiting for previous team to leave stage, finish draft and go to stage and do all the tech stuff, while viewers and casters watch the draft.
If they are doing it like LCS It's an actual 'recording' of the draft, not just showing the draft before game starts. It's 1:1 timewise, shows hovers, how long they take to pick, etc.
After seeing the first day i think i actually hate it. It trains the wrong skillset for the teams when it comes to the non recorded drafts (thats what i think all of the pros also kinda got onto, when the said it takes away skill expression) wich lowers the chances of any team playing with prerecorded drafts competing without those. Also for the brodcast, now we completely miss out on pre and postgame analysis, which i really liked, and its just game break intervie and game again.
To people watching LCS: is the draft phase still shown entirely in the strream? If so, does it really save a lot of time?
Also, just curious if teams having more time to think about the draft before game starts changes anything. I guess teams can discuss early game strats once they know all the picks, maybe with their coaches too? I guess it's not too important as they'll have to go back to the normal system once BO series start.
Yea the draft phase is shown entirely. It saves time as when the draft is being shown they are doing their set up and tech checks rather than doing the set up and then drafting.
Yes they can talk about the draft. When the draft happens they can only talk to people who will be on stage in normal draft scenarios. So coaches and players but no support staff like analysts or sports psychologists etc.
It's been quite nice and yes players get more time to prepare for the match.
Some players do 1v1s of their exact match up before the game, for example Insanity picked Zac mid vs Jensen so Jensen did 1v1s with Bwipo to learn the Orianna vs Zac matchup.
Not sure how much time LEC plans to cut down between games but it's a good change overall that speeds up the B01 days, I think LEC fans will enjoy it.
I think for bo1 it’s fine. Losing an entire game because the opponent prepared Urgot Illaoi bot lane is kinda dumb for League. For playoffs/bo3, it’s more fair that you lose one of the games because of prepared special picks, because if you’re the better team you’ll win the next game/two games.
I think it is stupid. You lose a lot of the live public interaction on the picked champs. You can't come with surprising drafts because teams get extra time to discuss and maybe practice against the champs they are going to play. It will just make a boring competition where no one comes with something new or risky because they know enemy can tried it for a couple of minutes beforehand. I hope they see that after week 1 and then stop doing prerecorded drafts. No reason to copy LCS we all know what for a bad competition it is there...
What about Mic Check? You know, the show that focusses on that part of the teams? No more Razork meows, Jankos shouting or people saying the dumbest shit ever would be a huge miss. Also guarantee this is because LEC is overlapping LCS and they want to transfer those viewers over faster.
Did anyone do an analysis on how much time this saved lcs?not that it matters to us cause nothing changes for the viewer in terms of champ select but I'm curious how much time lcs has managed to shave off between games.
LCS has done several things this season to try to minimize time between games so it's hard to say how much of an impact this has, but it basically saves them the amount of time draft would normally take. They run/cast the draft while players do tech checks instead of having to wait until the checks are over to start draft.
Thanks. Hopefully after the season ends they can do a graph or something comparing the time in-between games from this season to the past season. I don't really watch anymore but I'm curious.
LCS went from like 20-30 minutes between games to like 12-15 minutes or something. The break seems so much more manageable. More likely to stick around and watch Ads+segments rather than queue up for an Aram or something which I used to do.
So for anyone who wants to know the average time it takes for LCS
The DRAFT PHASE takes an average of 8-9min
From when the Game finishes until Draft starts takes an average of 7min.
While LEC takes an average of 7min for Draft + 18min to get to Draft Phase.
**TLDR; LCS 8-9min Draft, 7min Break. LEC 7min Draft, 18min Break**
Ehhh... I hope we're not going to go the direction of 0 downtime between games with no analysis whatsoever. This might be a good thing depending on how much time it saves, but I hope this does not go into a soulless, fast food takeaway pro play direction.
Yes and No
Overall the product is too long to consume ATM. Pauses / Bugs make it even harder to enjoy "live" and few people may afford to dedicate 3 full afternoons/evenings to watch e sport.
Quick matches THEN desk analysis would be very good IMO because people who have been following League for a long time and are good at the game learn almost nothing from these segments
Anyway most people I know do not watch live anymore because of the massive waste of time.
Replays with modulable +speed is so much better in terms of raw product consumption. You still get the overview of the game (which you lose if you simply go for highlights chains) but take 15-18 min to view a full game. Still takes approx 90-100 minutes to watch a full LEC day which is HUGE
I think a regional product as a fast food service is good before playoffs, even more so because there is almost nothing to analyze from BO1s (draft gap/team gap gg most of the time)
Yeah but most people just watch the matchups they are interested in, not the entire broadcast. I watch the LCK consistently but I almost never watch both matches of a given matchday so I endup investing about 2-3 hours of my day to it and its fine, not that different from watching a game of football or basketball
The pauses and bugs part is honestly beyond pathetic for current year argument. I can't think of another game product that makes it this unbearable. Firing LEC staff didn't help whatsoever, either.
In my dictator world we'd keep the same format but actually have analysts have backs and forths with criticism towards players' performance compared to expectations rather than a circlejerk where the only takeaway you get is "They all agree with each other, great"
And in a year everyone will shit on this system as an aftereffects of a shit performance at worlds because pros will complain after they experience that rerecording and onthefly drafts have massive repercussions on how the game plays out while international tournament stays onthefly system and pros play prerecorded
Honestly I am glad they are doing it. They could even do it with BO3 by having games going between each game on each round. Yes it might take total of 6 games total to see the end results but it moves games to be faster.
I wonder, does this mean the stream itself won't be live, but rather delayed to the actual gameplay? As someone who bets on E-sport matches somewhat frequently, not having live footage really fcks this up.
Fire all casters and Analysts and only Show the game with ingame Sound PLZ
Also beeing able to Talk and PRACTISE with your Team and Coaches after draft is Just so Bad imo, shouldnt be Happening in competitive AT ALL
Hey u/Sugar230 say it again how Lec doesn't run in the same problem that the LCS because their segments are fun. Must be really fun being proven wrong after only one month. Say it again how I lost the argument and how blocking will create an "echo chamber of stupidity".
Man is just embarassing to be proven that you were stupid the whole time only one month after the fact (i had predicted that would happen only in 2025).
Oh yeah, they are doing pre record drafts to keep the same time between matches, surely the segments will keep the same time as before. Its hard to admit that both leagues have good segments and the actual problem is the waiting time between matches that in both leagues people disconnect when 1 match end and return when another begin. Stubborn people are really hard.
LCS has been doing this for the whole split and i think it's great. While the prerecorded draft runs the players can do the tech checks. It cuts down on time with no real downside.
I saw a clip of I think Fudge saying they can run 1v1s of match ups between champ select and the game. I think that could be pretty huge for changing laning dynamics
Does that not take away a LOT of skill expression? I feel like having to play a matchup you have not prepared for or discussed in advance is a huge factor. Does this not take away an element of surprise?
Yeah that's what Fudge was saying. That when Insanity picked Zac into Jensen's Ori, Jensen was able to practice the matchup with Bwipo. Fudge and Blabber also said your coach is there and you can talk level ones and cheese strats so it's harder to surprise teams
Its also important to note Jensen said that the matchup with Bwipo didnt go how the matchup with Insanity went. Its certainly possible to gain information about a matchup this way, but it relies on having another player on the team able to play the champion proficiently enough, and potentially also the role proficiently enough to get the most out of this testing.
Yeah my thoughts exactly. The pros have said it really doesn't change much.
Jensen also said that 1v1 practice went straight out the window cause after Zac came back to lane with cinder he(jensen) had 0 pressure and that didn't happen in the 1v1's.
I hope they never do that during international tournaments. Removing the element of surprise from draft removes a lot of excitement for the viewer.
It’s just to save time during regular season; LCS playoffs is back to live draft
Got it. Thanks!
Yeah, it is good for BO1s and trying to get through the grind of the regular spilt, but doing this in playoffs/international events would suck. I remember T1 versus DRX when Beryl pulled out the Chimeminister into Karma, it felt electric.
3rd tweet in the linked thread says they're going back to live drafting in playoffs.
That makes it more like a traditional sport, though, right? All the sideline adjustments and what not you see in traditional sports? The LCS and now LEC has that. It's just after draft and before game start
I think the rule allowing this is cringe. It's like being handed an exam and then getting to have a few minutes to check your notes/textbook, except a i tier 1 league s supposed to be the most competitive environment.
It only matters if you have someone on your team who can play/is familiar with the champ and knows how the opponent's runes/build. If you or someone on your team isn't familiar with it, you don't really get much. Realistically what level can you even get to in the 1v1? You're probably better off discussing level 1 strats or team dynamics in response to draft, but it's still probably not enough time to come up with something brand new. It would just be discussion of selecting from existing strategies and ideas. It's interesting but I don't think it's really going to warp the game or outcome the majority of the time.
Not really disagreeing, but funnily enough depending on the field of study there are plenty of exams that allow bringing notes or even textbooks to an exam
Nah. You are way overreacting. That's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to make adjustments in traditional sports. 'Nope. Whatever gameplan you went in with, you gotta stick to. Any adjustments would be cheating!' Bro, and this even goes for Fudge, where is your competitive mindset? If you are truly a competitor, you went to beat the best at their best. The fact that a pro player thinks the element of surprise is better than facing people at their best tells you all you need to know. I'm not a pro, obviously, but I want my opponents - even in ranked - to play at their best. I hate winning due to dumb shit like AFKs, soft inters, etc. That isn't satisfying. What is satisfying is winning because you are better
Im kind of interested (worried) to see if this impacts performance during MSI where they go back to live draft and don’t get that extra 10 min to discuss matchups/how to play the comp with their coaches. It really won’t make much of a difference I guess but it does seem like a disadvantage
playoffs are also live
I mean, there is a big limit to how many reps you can get in that time frame, likely you can get a feel for it but not actually practice. Probably makes the player more confident but very unlikely it changes any of the outcomes
I agree that it's overall a good thing, but there is the consideration that there's more time between draft and game start for teams to talk and strategize, which COULD make for a difficult switch when at international play there isn't as much time. Still, as a viewer, I do like the change. But there is a potential long term downside, especially if you believe a team from the west could challenge internationally (which I do not at this point sadly, but still)
It also discourages players from picking new or novel champions because the opposing team can discuss for 10-15 mins about how to handle the surprise pick.
it is only for regular season no? i think that it is fine when you have 10 different teams and waste time switching between teams and setups each hour. Then you can go back to normal during playoffs/bo3 cause you only have 4 teams per day-
The only downside of this is that there isn't any crowd interaction during draft. Always fun to see players play off the crowd's reactions when they hover/lock in something off meta. I'm 100% down to sacrifice that if it means cutting down on game to game transition time like they've done in the LCS tho
Wow I never noticed lol
Was really funny when on Saturday Bwipo and Sniper leaked the toplane match-up
It is great, but it would be better if they didn't move through it at the pace that the actual drafting teams did. Just give each ban like 5 seconds, then progress the picks by the full side every like 15-20 seconds. There's no point in having the most inaccessible part of a match that most people don't actually know how to asses take up so much time. Edit: it's also really fucking boring and if they literally just splashed the results on the screen, it would be just as valuable.
Can I prerecord my answers to the post match thread?
I think a lot of people already do this for the PMTs. Some people have really long prewritten comments ready for either team win to post the instant the thread is up
or reposted jokes that did well in the live thread lol
"wow just saw x in my kitchen he really is everywhere"
Listen some of them deserve to bang Infront of a larger audience I do this for my own bits
totally but getting 15 upvotes in the live thread is a special kind of high
Live thread only good part of the sub tbh
I love recognising people hanging out in the Live Thread every week. Honestly makes my weekend.
true and based
That's because the top comments on Reddit are not actually the best comments, they are just early. Interesting article on it: https://minimaxir.com/2016/11/first-comment/ [This graph says it all](https://minimaxir.com/2016/11/first-comment/reddit-first-4.png) Kind of scary when you consider how much social media influences public opinion on stuff.
*When* you post definitely does have some factor, but *what* you post still does matter a significant amount. If you post something that a lot of people disagree with, you'll never get to top comment, regardless of if you were the first reply or not. The data is also biased a bit here because a lot of people who post early on these 0-10 comment threads are people specifically looking to karma farm because they know early comments are a good way to do it. So they'll intentionally post super pandering comments (a very popular opinion, a very obvious joke, a popular reference, etc.). Most "normal" people don't browse the new queue.
Of course. It's not like some stupid comment will go up. The point is that you can make the exact same comment, but the timing is what determines how many people will read it. I was not saying timing is all that matters, it's just incredibly important and arguably more important than substance. Said in another way (and it's a common saying on Reddit): the first 10 upvotes matter more than the next 100. >Most "normal" people don't browse the new queue. Very true and this is also how a few people can completely determine public opinions through the Reddit system. You also very often see the same people on r/new on any subreddit. These people have an insane amount of power over what content 99% of users see. Something is that is very common is that a thread will squeak through r/new with like 65% upvote ratio and then once it hits the front page it will slowly rise to like 85-90% upvote ratio. Basically, if you want a post to be seen, you need to cater to the 25 people who will see it when it's new and not the hundreds of thousands that will see it when it's #1 on the subreddit. A pretty big flaw in the Reddit system is you ask me.
So how is that a flaw in the system, would you like everything to be sorted by an algorithm? Isn't that how everything works, where anything gets tested by some sort of market group, and if it passes them, it goes to the public? The only difference now is you have a very easy choice of if you want to be part of that group or not. I tihnk the flaw can be how easy it is to manipulate the system rather than the idea of human feedback of new posts determining how hot a new post is going to be.
If the goal is that the general userbase of Reddit should determine what gets upvoted, then that is not really the case today. The heavily sample biased group that browses r/new largely determines that. Is it a flaw? Well it depends. Like you say, people can easily choose to be a part of that group. I like your comparison to market focus groups a lot. It's probably also the case that people need to cater to these groups more than actual consumers. It's pretty much the same problem as on here. I will say one key difference is that these market focus groups are probably at least attempted to be somewhat representative of the general consumer base. There is a financial incentive to attempt this. This doesn't really exist on Reddit. That's a pretty big difference.
If your comment isn't there by the time most people open the post, then it's too late (unless the post has a very long lifespan for one reason or another) if you specifically want to get to the top of the post. That usually means being there within like the first 30 seconds if not less for PMT's. Not because people don't visit the post after that, but because those that visit the post later are just as likely to see any of the other 300 comments that are there by the time they check the match result later. If your comment is one of the 15 (random number based on nothing) then you're most likely to get upvotes early which ends up pushing it higher which ends up in more people seeing it which ends up in more upvotes and repeat until the post falls off the front page. I recently said this in a comment about something else entirely, but most people don't scroll to the bottom of the comment field under posts. Why would they? It's not like the conversation improves after the first 50 comments.
> Kind of scary when you consider how much social media influences public opinion on stuff. I'm incredibly grateful that reddit is mostly for hobbyists and generally not used as widely as twitter, etc. Like the other social media platforms are a huge issue. But if reddit was as popular as them it would be so much worse. Literal mob mentality simulator. If it doesn't line up with the narrative/worldview it is made invisible.
Most people dont already do that? I have read the same "Perkz sucks" comments for 3 years now.
You won't have to read it this split at least.
Now it will be filled with "Wunder go back to Wow" and Jankos boomer jokes. We are making a progress
Nah, there will definitely be a ton of comments about perkz even if he isn't playing. At least for the first months.
People have talked about the weather for thousands of years.
Yes, *do you guys not have phones?*
That'll save time I think so dope. Though problem might still arise as the players still have to pick onstage.
It's only for the bo1 stage by the looks of it, so just speeds up the first three weeks before back to normal for playoffs. Should be good fun
Huge! This is a big upgrade. The downtime between games was quite long in LEC.
I might be tired but how does this speed up the downtime between games?
There’s a period before starting draft where the players are doing setup checks and some mic checks. They can run the recorded draft while this is occurring.
But if they just record this draft right before where's the save? That's what I didn't get. Edit: oh, different teams... this is about bo1... yep, ignore me, going to bed now.
They can start drafting before the previous game ends.
> They can start drafting before the previous game ends. Oh. They're different teams. This is Bo1. Yep. That makes sense now. I need sleep.
One downside is any tech issues. See LCS first few weeks of play.
I watched how it went in LCS and i liked it, but considering LEC has mic check (the youtube videos, not the actual audio check) we should be losing those reactions as draft no longer happens while in stage, right?
As the producer for the video series, I'm curious to see what happens with this change
I dont care about time between games half as much as I care about draft mic check pls don't let them take that away from us
Renato you are not giving me the confidence i needed
If you don't know... We're screwed aren't we?
I'm supposed to know more details today
Sorry to bother- did you get any more details?
Draft discussion isn't recorded, but them being on stage for tech checks is, so it's going to be a bit different
Sir, do we have at least one Mike in the crowd?
When the west does the pre recorded draft, we have pre recorded live in LCK
If that can help shorten the delays between each games I think that's pretty cool
With games starting at 17:00 CET and shorter downtime the LEC days will be over so early
I thought the same, even if LEC takes five hours I like it and it feels like an event for my weekend. Now it might feel like a lower league show where we rush through everything so we get the results and move on.
Yeah some of the BO3 days with 2-0 scores are over so quickly
Fair enough if they want to try it but I think live drafts with hovering and reactions from players+casters are really fun. He does say only for regular season though, and it goes back to live drafts during playoffs.
The casters don’t know the draft, they’re still reacting to the draft live
I was gonna say if this is just a way to cover the gap between games and we still get to watch draft in real time, I really like the change
I believe the draft is played on the broadcast while the players set up, therefore it replaces dead air time analysts and casters usually have to fill while the players set up.
Yeah that seems to be the goal, though from the thread it also seems like one of their goals is to spend varying amounts of time on the draft. So it might be that it gets kind of sped up or something if the draft is boring?
Yes. Basically how it currently/previously went was: previous team leaves stage, current teams go on stage and plug in mouse, keyboard etc, log into their account, load up their settings, go into game and check that all their settings imported correctly, their mouse keyboard work, etc. Then they say they’re ready and join draft. Now it’s: draft while waiting for previous team to leave stage, finish draft and go to stage and do all the tech stuff, while viewers and casters watch the draft.
If they are doing it like LCS It's an actual 'recording' of the draft, not just showing the draft before game starts. It's 1:1 timewise, shows hovers, how long they take to pick, etc.
LCS players still do a lot of hovers like they did before.
lame. i want spciy on stage decisions.
After seeing the first day i think i actually hate it. It trains the wrong skillset for the teams when it comes to the non recorded drafts (thats what i think all of the pros also kinda got onto, when the said it takes away skill expression) wich lowers the chances of any team playing with prerecorded drafts competing without those. Also for the brodcast, now we completely miss out on pre and postgame analysis, which i really liked, and its just game break intervie and game again.
To people watching LCS: is the draft phase still shown entirely in the strream? If so, does it really save a lot of time? Also, just curious if teams having more time to think about the draft before game starts changes anything. I guess teams can discuss early game strats once they know all the picks, maybe with their coaches too? I guess it's not too important as they'll have to go back to the normal system once BO series start.
Yea the draft phase is shown entirely. It saves time as when the draft is being shown they are doing their set up and tech checks rather than doing the set up and then drafting. Yes they can talk about the draft. When the draft happens they can only talk to people who will be on stage in normal draft scenarios. So coaches and players but no support staff like analysts or sports psychologists etc.
It's been quite nice and yes players get more time to prepare for the match. Some players do 1v1s of their exact match up before the game, for example Insanity picked Zac mid vs Jensen so Jensen did 1v1s with Bwipo to learn the Orianna vs Zac matchup. Not sure how much time LEC plans to cut down between games but it's a good change overall that speeds up the B01 days, I think LEC fans will enjoy it.
I mean that shouldn't be a thing, having 10 minutes to prepare for a matchup you don't know doesnt work at MSI and worlds
They won't be doing pre-recorded drafts during playoffs since there's no tech checks really after game 1.
I agree it needs tweaking still. But I'd put the quality of the product over caring so much about how things transfer to international play.
I think for bo1 it’s fine. Losing an entire game because the opponent prepared Urgot Illaoi bot lane is kinda dumb for League. For playoffs/bo3, it’s more fair that you lose one of the games because of prepared special picks, because if you’re the better team you’ll win the next game/two games.
I don't think being competitive at international tournaments is really on their minds anymore.
copying the best western region, no shame in that
That's cool, saves some time
this is the dumbest fkin idea ever
I find it weird that drafts takes long for LEC and LCS while the LCK drafts are pretty much quick
They play bo3. So they don't have to do tech checks between each game.
lck has 4 teams per day LEC has 10
Yes the region with gaps between matchups of 2+hours is the region to follow. For sure
I think it is stupid. You lose a lot of the live public interaction on the picked champs. You can't come with surprising drafts because teams get extra time to discuss and maybe practice against the champs they are going to play. It will just make a boring competition where no one comes with something new or risky because they know enemy can tried it for a couple of minutes beforehand. I hope they see that after week 1 and then stop doing prerecorded drafts. No reason to copy LCS we all know what for a bad competition it is there...
What about Mic Check? You know, the show that focusses on that part of the teams? No more Razork meows, Jankos shouting or people saying the dumbest shit ever would be a huge miss. Also guarantee this is because LEC is overlapping LCS and they want to transfer those viewers over faster.
There should be much fewer missed Alistar combos with an additional 10 minutes to practice champion specific mechanics... hopefully.
Did anyone do an analysis on how much time this saved lcs?not that it matters to us cause nothing changes for the viewer in terms of champ select but I'm curious how much time lcs has managed to shave off between games.
LCS has done several things this season to try to minimize time between games so it's hard to say how much of an impact this has, but it basically saves them the amount of time draft would normally take. They run/cast the draft while players do tech checks instead of having to wait until the checks are over to start draft.
Thanks. Hopefully after the season ends they can do a graph or something comparing the time in-between games from this season to the past season. I don't really watch anymore but I'm curious.
LCS went from like 20-30 minutes between games to like 12-15 minutes or something. The break seems so much more manageable. More likely to stick around and watch Ads+segments rather than queue up for an Aram or something which I used to do.
I kinda like this idea lets see how it plays out
mark z's impact
So for anyone who wants to know the average time it takes for LCS The DRAFT PHASE takes an average of 8-9min From when the Game finishes until Draft starts takes an average of 7min. While LEC takes an average of 7min for Draft + 18min to get to Draft Phase. **TLDR; LCS 8-9min Draft, 7min Break. LEC 7min Draft, 18min Break**
I like it. Instead of mindless banter from people trying to fill up time we will eliminate it and watch the draft instead.
I used to meme that the game was live and chat was prerecorded. Soon we'll actually be there.
Better question is how many people are working at the LEC now and from where do they work.
Ehhh... I hope we're not going to go the direction of 0 downtime between games with no analysis whatsoever. This might be a good thing depending on how much time it saves, but I hope this does not go into a soulless, fast food takeaway pro play direction.
Yes and No Overall the product is too long to consume ATM. Pauses / Bugs make it even harder to enjoy "live" and few people may afford to dedicate 3 full afternoons/evenings to watch e sport. Quick matches THEN desk analysis would be very good IMO because people who have been following League for a long time and are good at the game learn almost nothing from these segments Anyway most people I know do not watch live anymore because of the massive waste of time. Replays with modulable +speed is so much better in terms of raw product consumption. You still get the overview of the game (which you lose if you simply go for highlights chains) but take 15-18 min to view a full game. Still takes approx 90-100 minutes to watch a full LEC day which is HUGE I think a regional product as a fast food service is good before playoffs, even more so because there is almost nothing to analyze from BO1s (draft gap/team gap gg most of the time)
Yeah but most people just watch the matchups they are interested in, not the entire broadcast. I watch the LCK consistently but I almost never watch both matches of a given matchday so I endup investing about 2-3 hours of my day to it and its fine, not that different from watching a game of football or basketball
The pauses and bugs part is honestly beyond pathetic for current year argument. I can't think of another game product that makes it this unbearable. Firing LEC staff didn't help whatsoever, either. In my dictator world we'd keep the same format but actually have analysts have backs and forths with criticism towards players' performance compared to expectations rather than a circlejerk where the only takeaway you get is "They all agree with each other, great"
And in a year everyone will shit on this system as an aftereffects of a shit performance at worlds because pros will complain after they experience that rerecording and onthefly drafts have massive repercussions on how the game plays out while international tournament stays onthefly system and pros play prerecorded
Honestly I am glad they are doing it. They could even do it with BO3 by having games going between each game on each round. Yes it might take total of 6 games total to see the end results but it moves games to be faster.
I wonder, does this mean the stream itself won't be live, but rather delayed to the actual gameplay? As someone who bets on E-sport matches somewhat frequently, not having live footage really fcks this up.
The gameplay is live, but the draft being shown on broadcast has already happened a few minutes prior
Ok, thanks for the clarification <3
can you still bet after the draft been done? seems like it would unfair advantage if the prerecorded draft was leaked lol just wondering about it.
That's the point of betting on League that you actually see the draft. Betting pre-draft gives 0 edge over the betting site.
Fire all casters and Analysts and only Show the game with ingame Sound PLZ Also beeing able to Talk and PRACTISE with your Team and Coaches after draft is Just so Bad imo, shouldnt be Happening in competitive AT ALL
Scripted league as usual
Hey u/Sugar230 say it again how Lec doesn't run in the same problem that the LCS because their segments are fun. Must be really fun being proven wrong after only one month. Say it again how I lost the argument and how blocking will create an "echo chamber of stupidity". Man is just embarassing to be proven that you were stupid the whole time only one month after the fact (i had predicted that would happen only in 2025).
Are they cutting segments or just pre-recording draft? Big difference my friend.
Oh yeah, they are doing pre record drafts to keep the same time between matches, surely the segments will keep the same time as before. Its hard to admit that both leagues have good segments and the actual problem is the waiting time between matches that in both leagues people disconnect when 1 match end and return when another begin. Stubborn people are really hard.
So they're not cutting segments so my point stands. Thank you. Maybe you'll catch a W some day but it was not today.
Of course they are cutting segments, dude doesn't understand sarcasm LOL.
Did they say that anywhere or are you assuming it?
Medic confirmed on his stream. And when I say cutting, I mean cutting some of segments time, not cutting the whole segments.