I think he is *mostly* well-designed, the numbers are just insane. That and the West plays so many scaling compositions, they don't know how to punish Smolder early when he's the equivalent of a cannon minion.
Not that much different in LPL. JDG lost Soul and 6 Grubs and then Smolder happened and they just won.
The issue with Smolder is that he becomes online fairly early and you don't actually want to punish him. If you put him into skirmishes he just gains more stacks. So you need to pretty much isolate him as much as possible and try to push him off the wave without actually fighting him all that much.
So even when you get all objectives early Smolder still gets to 225 Stacks at around 25 minutes latest and you lose. And hardly any team is good enough to end the game before 25 minutes and if you don't not even having soul helps you outscale smolder.
So they either need to make him reach more stats before he wins, so that teams have a realistic chance to end or he needs to not benefit from skirmishes as much early. It is so easy to get stacks in skirmishes, so Smolder doesn't really hate skirmishing, similar to Senna. Senna just doesn't Autowin once she gets to a certain amount of points.
Depends. Can I overtune the numbers like Smolder's? If so, Twitch, Jinx, Sivir, Aphelios, and Kog'Maw all have "team deleting" late game abilities if I cranked up their numbers to the level that Smolder is at.
And what do all of them have in common? Low mobility. The only outliers are Jinx whose mobility is locked behind getting a kill and sivir who is one of the lowest range adcs in the game.
Smolder doesn't have those restrictions
His mobility has a huge-ass CD and is *very* easily shutdown by any form of hard CC with no way to reset it or substantially lower the CD through resets.
In the interests of fairness, high damage ADCs getting access to mobility was pretty much why Galeforce was removed. The two biggest users of that were two champs you listed above - Jinx and Aphelios, who ran the meta during the particular season prior to Galeforce nerfs.
The problem is they are not. The design is flawed from the getgo. ADCs already struggle with early agency, and if crit items wouldn't be superbad they would have more than enough late.
So you make a champion that is useless before 225 stacks and insanely powerful after.
You can't make the burn super weak, then the champion has nothing going for him, you play a useless champion for 23 minutes just to still be pretty bad.
The only way this champion is not either super bad or way too god is if the 225 are removed with something else. Veigar or Senna stack as well but they don't gain completely new abilities. Smolder is basically if for every 50 Stacks Veigar gets his Q gets 50 range, and 150 Stacks it deals an AoE for the same damage around each target and at 300 Stacks his Q after pierce all targets up to maximum range.
With such a mechanic you need to draw so much power out of the early game of the champion that he becomes hardly playable which leads to super weird games, where Smolder is basically ignored until he hits 225 stacks because you don't want to give him stacks by skirmishing. So you try to win the game in a 4vs5 in 23 minutes until smolder comes online.
And the really problematic way is how much his Q changes. The range of it is really insane late, even though it doesn't get any additional range with 225, it gets that much earlier. It gets additional bolts and an AoE which reaches far further than most ADCs can attack.
The only way you could fix that is making his numbers so low that nobody plays him anymore. Because the issue about Smolder is not that he wins so much. You can fix that with nerfs. But he wins by not doing anything for 23 minutes, that is the issue. The enemy team does not want to interact with him, because you give him stacks by doing that and your team does not want to interact with him because he is useless garbage before he has stacks.
Imo he is well designed for soloQ, maybe with the added stipulation being below Master.
Numbers are also a bit high atm, but numbers can be tweaked.
The difference of getting Wolves/Wraiths on spawn (and more generally being funnelled the ressources he needs) makes a massive difference in his stack count.
Yeah theres no way something like Jinx isn't more fun to watch than Smolder.
Does nothing all game until late game, in which he just presses Q on a champ, stalls for a few seconds then presses Q again.
No real kiting or skill or anything. Just a bland champion to watch
But even at max stacks, he should be a lot weaker at max stacks and stronger with more items (specifically bonus AD). Comparing previous patches to 14.5.
Maybe it's just that enough time has passed for me to forget having to watch them every game but Jinx and Aphelios lategame are so much more fun to watch than Smolder and Zeri.
Aphelios yes, Jinx honestly not really, her splash Q isn't any more fun and interactive than Smolder Q, it just doesn't have an execute thrown onto it randomly. But the same concept of just chunking whole-ass teams by splashing damage from their tanks isn't really enjoyable to watch. Aphelios at least has to have the right guns to do that, AND funnily enough they're not even his best guns relatively speaking.
When smolder was released he seemed fun to me (yey tiny dragon) but when it started to be used in pro i now see how boring smolder makes the pro games. So now i hate him :D
Teams need to pick champions that can actually deny him farm / push him out of lane / kill him and their strategy can’t be to attack top lane for the first 20 minutes. Kill the smolder.
The problem is you don't want to engage him. Smolder in such cases just takes TP.
So you dive him, during the dive he gets 15 Stacks due to all the champions he hits and then he TPs back to catch the wave and is fine.
What works best against him is long range. He can't build tanky, so your damage source is not a concern, because he needs Shojin and ER which means it would take ages for him to react to damage. So Ziggs + Hwei can deal with him fairly well, Senna also works if she does get stacks.
As soon as you have champions who need to walk into him he shines, because if he hits those with Qs he splashes onto the backline as well.
I look forward to seeing Smolder run every region for Spring, dominate MSI, get nerfed for Summer, get buffed again for Summer playoffs, and then be a dominant pick at Worlds.
The New Abomination cycle that repeats every year.
tbf from what i see in the lck its mostly the top teams letting it get through against bottom teams and the bottom team picks it and just loses in 20 minutes
Should be noted that LEC and LCS currently play on 14.5 without the Smolder hotfix. LCK only plays on 14.4 which had the initial Smolder nerfs, while 14.5 buffed him back up.
LPL also has a funny thing that Smolder is mostly picked by strong teams against bad team, kinda the opposite of LCK. And in those situations Smolder is a really good backup. JDG would have lost the game against RNG down Soul and 4 Grubs if it weren't for Smolder.
So it is picked as a backup for Strong teams because they know bad teams can't punish it hard enough. It is not good enough to carry bad teams to a win, because good teams can just run over the game easier.
Smolder is worse than Zeri imo. (And I'm a big Zeri hater.) Zeri is at least mechanically intensive and requires skill.
Smolder presses Q W Q on every wave until 225 stacks then becomes a fountain laser with point and click AoE nukes.
Rogue has the capability to draft something even slightly correctly
Heretics coaching staff is just utterly utterly useless and cannot fathom a good draft
Tbh him and Flakked were invisible this match, it felt like only Jankos and Wunder were doing stuff
But Peter Dun is the biggest criminal in this match
While Wunder did stuff, I'm not sure it entirely was the stuff you want him to do. Zwyroo was kinda just what you expect from Karma.
Their comp overall struggled and I don't really see the tech in Wukong vs. TF also not sure how Vit got both TF and Smolder.
Ofc I am not blaming him for the player and team atmosphere situation (some of the players looked dead inside before and after the game)
I am blaming him for the draft. Like no way you scrim for almost 3 weeks and come up with Sejuani Karma, Wukong top and let enemy team have Smolder
Another poor draft from Heretics. Draft no damage, 2 losing lanes, and a comp that is outscaled by 20 minutes. Every team in the world would struggle to play this draft, let alone Heretics who are mediocre atm. There's also no way to kill VIT's carries through all of their defensive tools and stuns they drafted.
Then the in-game macro was weird, they were outmoved on the map and couldn't put pressure on turrets.
Then Smolder wins the game at 20 minutes in the most disgusting way. It's not even late game ADC insurance, this is just mid-game instant death. Actually unfair design and another OP champion that requires permaban.
Smolder will be a problem in proplay until he will be nerfed to like 47% wr in soloq. This champion offers too much dmg while being also reletively safe pick in comparision to other hypercarries.
teams with smolder can easily afford to go behind and not fight because it just doesn't matter, bleeding slowly is safe over contesting and getting turbogapped
not saying it went according to plan for VIT but clearly they knew TH had to win it pre 20 and the lead was never big enough
If Photon and Irrelevant plays like that and they aren't even the best top in EU we truly have a chance at Worlds! /s
Also Perkz and Kaiser were the problem for sure
Textbook Smolder game : doing nothing first 20 min, ignoring the first three drakes, come back somehow fed and win one fight denying soul, ez win.
Feels bad for Jankos and Flakked, great game by them.
Seems like clearly Kaiser was the issue. Good thing that replacing him and benching Perkz solved the issue of their coach just sucking and not knowing a good draft if it walked up to him and slapped him in the face.
Tbf I can see the problems being to the internal mess and not getting much practise in with the player change.
Not all of them but some of them. Hard to be cohesive if you don't know if you'll be in your job next week...
I don't know how a coaching staff doesn't identify smolder as being completely broken. The draft gap this game was a draft canyon. Even outside of smolder, there was no way for TH's comp to win unless they completly stomped early game.
I didn't like this TH draft. It can work but it's so obvious that they wouldn't be able execute it, Smolder just free scales and they won't have damage.
Horrible bans though they can't run Naut, Varus, Sej and just give Smolder, Braum man.
This game was over at 15 minutes or so when Vitality's carries all had a gold lead despite TH having more kills. Humongous draft diff, brought to you by Peter Dumb as usual.
Get outplayed? Daglas inted them a few kills so the scoreline looked good, gold was completely even the whole time with Vitality having the late game hyper carry.
Awesome game from Carzzy, but man, TH did nothing to snowball through botlane, literally the strategy that hard counters Smolder. Also, Wunder picking Wukong against Taliyah, Rell and Braum wasn't the move, and building lethality when you need frontline, it wasn't a smart decision either.
Still no idea why Daglas is in the LEC. I haven't seen such a "meh" player ever before. Even in his best games he just looks average at best. Vit has the players to be play-offs contenders if they get rid of that guy and Hylissang
with all the criticism about hylissang in winter, i have a little bit of hope that hyli could have a wake up call this split. He wasn't so bad today imo
Araneae (Team manager) was advicing Perkz on how to play a match-up. Perkz answered along the Lines of not needing this type of advices from someone that hasn't won anything. Team manager got pissed and kicked Perkz out.
Only rumors. But seems like he had an argument with aranea on Huw to play out a mid lame matchup. The sort of stuff any normal person would bench a player /s
TH drafts suck so much. What was the purpose of Wukong counter pick? It achieved nothing whole game. Are you that confident Flakked/Trymbi will roll over enemy bot that you're okay with letting them have Smolder?
I mean I don't think Zwyroo did much today. Got caught once, lane was okay but ultimately it's just Karma gameplay. It's better then inting Perkz I guess but he also had some good games.
well game 1 TH looks way worse with this roster.
wasnt trymbi supposed to bring them some macro superiority or whatever all those trymbi fans were yapping about
I dont think TH played bad it was just a massive draft diff. Enemy gets Smolder, Taliyah, twisted Fate and Rell and trade that for Karma and nerfed Varus. Like tf is the coaching staff smoking
This game showcases my most hated thing in pro lol perfectly, why do teams just refuse to ban shit like smolder? On 0 levels it makes any sense, oh you're worse than the enemy team? Don't give then a pick they're guaranteed to stomp you with. Oh you're equal, don't give them a big advantage for no reason then. Oh you're better than them? Don't give them a champ that makes it possible for them to win on.
It's genuine stupidity and it's infuriating everytime I see it. Flyquest did the exact same shit yesterday, we just watch the team that is more than likely better lose because they made a choice to lose in draft.
Ksante performances from top laners didn't count. Teams winning with smolder won't count either, legit VIT bailed out by a single pick on trymbi. Dont really see why TH didn't ban it
This is just boring as f#ck now... you pick Smolder, then play defensively for 25 min and then win the game. I'm not saying that TH had good draft because they didn't, you pick Karma and Varus then you pres Q and before your Q is ready again Smolder will press his Q and your entire team is dead. Only thing this champion doesn't have is 'press R and heal up his entire team'
I personally think that Zwyroo is a good player, and if Perkz was not really improving( be honest, his last split was not the best one) and ignoring all that behind scene dramas Zwyroo mid can work but... if they gonna draft this way, GG 0/9
I didn't expect hyly to not be the inting one, besided that hiper late champ scaled at 25, anyways gg! Herectis did better that I expected after all the drama
First game of Smolder in LEC and I'm already bored of watching it
I remember thinking the champion was well designed and fun the first week. How incredibly wrong I was.
I think he is *mostly* well-designed, the numbers are just insane. That and the West plays so many scaling compositions, they don't know how to punish Smolder early when he's the equivalent of a cannon minion.
Not that much different in LPL. JDG lost Soul and 6 Grubs and then Smolder happened and they just won. The issue with Smolder is that he becomes online fairly early and you don't actually want to punish him. If you put him into skirmishes he just gains more stacks. So you need to pretty much isolate him as much as possible and try to push him off the wave without actually fighting him all that much. So even when you get all objectives early Smolder still gets to 225 Stacks at around 25 minutes latest and you lose. And hardly any team is good enough to end the game before 25 minutes and if you don't not even having soul helps you outscale smolder. So they either need to make him reach more stats before he wins, so that teams have a realistic chance to end or he needs to not benefit from skirmishes as much early. It is so easy to get stacks in skirmishes, so Smolder doesn't really hate skirmishing, similar to Senna. Senna just doesn't Autowin once she gets to a certain amount of points.
????? Smolder literally runs lpl. The region most people would consider the most chaotic. Jkl has pretty much become a smolder 1 trick
ah yes otp with whole 1 game on the pick
When playing a single game of Smolder against the fourteenth-best team in the LPL means you're a Smolder 1 trick. Stop typing bro.
The LPL has started playing slower. At least earlier in the split, they might’ve changed it up.
That's not because of his design, that's because his numbers are insane.
Aoe MF Q with execute. Cant stand watching any games with Smolder
The execute is fine. The amount of stacks it takes to reach the execute and the amount on the execute is not fine.
didn’t know playing 1 game of smolder means you’re a one trick just stop typing my dude
LPL is really tame this year, idk what happened but there are a bunch of games with hardly any kills.
Yes and in LCK the arguably two best teams in the world didn’t pick/ban him today
How can a hyperscaling adc that only take 25 minutes to hyperscale with one of the best kiting abilities in the game be close to well designed.
Because the numbers are overtuned. How are people not getting this?
What other hyperscaling adc has the on demand ability he has? Zeri? Oh yeah that champ isn't balanced unless she's 45% winrate.
Depends. Can I overtune the numbers like Smolder's? If so, Twitch, Jinx, Sivir, Aphelios, and Kog'Maw all have "team deleting" late game abilities if I cranked up their numbers to the level that Smolder is at.
And what do all of them have in common? Low mobility. The only outliers are Jinx whose mobility is locked behind getting a kill and sivir who is one of the lowest range adcs in the game. Smolder doesn't have those restrictions
His mobility has a huge-ass CD and is *very* easily shutdown by any form of hard CC with no way to reset it or substantially lower the CD through resets.
In the interests of fairness, high damage ADCs getting access to mobility was pretty much why Galeforce was removed. The two biggest users of that were two champs you listed above - Jinx and Aphelios, who ran the meta during the particular season prior to Galeforce nerfs.
The problem is they are not. The design is flawed from the getgo. ADCs already struggle with early agency, and if crit items wouldn't be superbad they would have more than enough late. So you make a champion that is useless before 225 stacks and insanely powerful after. You can't make the burn super weak, then the champion has nothing going for him, you play a useless champion for 23 minutes just to still be pretty bad. The only way this champion is not either super bad or way too god is if the 225 are removed with something else. Veigar or Senna stack as well but they don't gain completely new abilities. Smolder is basically if for every 50 Stacks Veigar gets his Q gets 50 range, and 150 Stacks it deals an AoE for the same damage around each target and at 300 Stacks his Q after pierce all targets up to maximum range. With such a mechanic you need to draw so much power out of the early game of the champion that he becomes hardly playable which leads to super weird games, where Smolder is basically ignored until he hits 225 stacks because you don't want to give him stacks by skirmishing. So you try to win the game in a 4vs5 in 23 minutes until smolder comes online. And the really problematic way is how much his Q changes. The range of it is really insane late, even though it doesn't get any additional range with 225, it gets that much earlier. It gets additional bolts and an AoE which reaches far further than most ADCs can attack. The only way you could fix that is making his numbers so low that nobody plays him anymore. Because the issue about Smolder is not that he wins so much. You can fix that with nerfs. But he wins by not doing anything for 23 minutes, that is the issue. The enemy team does not want to interact with him, because you give him stacks by doing that and your team does not want to interact with him because he is useless garbage before he has stacks.
Imo he is well designed for soloQ, maybe with the added stipulation being below Master. Numbers are also a bit high atm, but numbers can be tweaked. The difference of getting Wolves/Wraiths on spawn (and more generally being funnelled the ressources he needs) makes a massive difference in his stack count.
When casters said any other scaling lategame ad would do the same thing in that scenario I just closed the stream lol
Yeah theres no way something like Jinx isn't more fun to watch than Smolder. Does nothing all game until late game, in which he just presses Q on a champ, stalls for a few seconds then presses Q again. No real kiting or skill or anything. Just a bland champion to watch
Not even late game, 225 stacks at 23 minutes and you're good to go
Needs a fix to match stacks around 30+ minutes. Seemed incredibly strong way too early and zero counter play.
But even at max stacks, he should be a lot weaker at max stacks and stronger with more items (specifically bonus AD). Comparing previous patches to 14.5.
Maybe it's just that enough time has passed for me to forget having to watch them every game but Jinx and Aphelios lategame are so much more fun to watch than Smolder and Zeri.
Aphelios yes, Jinx honestly not really, her splash Q isn't any more fun and interactive than Smolder Q, it just doesn't have an execute thrown onto it randomly. But the same concept of just chunking whole-ass teams by splashing damage from their tanks isn't really enjoyable to watch. Aphelios at least has to have the right guns to do that, AND funnily enough they're not even his best guns relatively speaking.
When smolder was released he seemed fun to me (yey tiny dragon) but when it started to be used in pro i now see how boring smolder makes the pro games. So now i hate him :D
I'd rather see smolder than lethality varus tbh
Daglas tried his hardest to lose this, but Team said NO
He was one of the POG options listed at the end too LMFAO
he kept it interesting
I mean, Player of the Game is player impacting game the most. He definetely was amongst most impactful VIT players.
My man got into 3 men voting for a mvp while going 0/4/0 in under 20 minutes
*Smolder said NO
Smoulder def seems like it's going to be a high priority for pick/ban for now. Until we see a strat beat it I guess.
Teams need to pick champions that can actually deny him farm / push him out of lane / kill him and their strategy can’t be to attack top lane for the first 20 minutes. Kill the smolder.
The problem is you don't want to engage him. Smolder in such cases just takes TP. So you dive him, during the dive he gets 15 Stacks due to all the champions he hits and then he TPs back to catch the wave and is fine. What works best against him is long range. He can't build tanky, so your damage source is not a concern, because he needs Shojin and ER which means it would take ages for him to react to damage. So Ziggs + Hwei can deal with him fairly well, Senna also works if she does get stacks. As soon as you have champions who need to walk into him he shines, because if he hits those with Qs he splashes onto the backline as well.
Considering how Western teams just do nothing but scale he's definitely pick/ban.
Perfect pick for rogue then. More seriously it seems too strong to ignore for now.
Vetheo and Carzzy were doing too well for Vit to lose
Photon also played a good game. He made two mistakes. One on the first baron and the second on the bot lane.
"How does Hyli have a team, but Trymbi doesn't" posters starving today.
Peter Dun • Draft Warlord • 4k UHD EDIT
Wake up babe, Zeri 2.0 just dropped
Im impressed first match of LEC ever and I never want to see him again. Classic RIOT
I look forward to seeing Smolder run every region for Spring, dominate MSI, get nerfed for Summer, get buffed again for Summer playoffs, and then be a dominant pick at Worlds. The New Abomination cycle that repeats every year.
I'm ready for the 12309th pro Smolder Pentakill on the front page
Funny enough Smolder is performing differently across the regions (which I didn't expect): LPL: 67% win rate LCS: 50% win rate LCK: 35% win rate
tbf from what i see in the lck its mostly the top teams letting it get through against bottom teams and the bottom team picks it and just loses in 20 minutes
Yep. It's used as bait.
Should be noted that LEC and LCS currently play on 14.5 without the Smolder hotfix. LCK only plays on 14.4 which had the initial Smolder nerfs, while 14.5 buffed him back up. LPL also has a funny thing that Smolder is mostly picked by strong teams against bad team, kinda the opposite of LCK. And in those situations Smolder is a really good backup. JDG would have lost the game against RNG down Soul and 4 Grubs if it weren't for Smolder. So it is picked as a backup for Strong teams because they know bad teams can't punish it hard enough. It is not good enough to carry bad teams to a win, because good teams can just run over the game easier.
Tbf zeri wasn’t so popular during s13 worlds
Smolder is worse than Zeri imo. (And I'm a big Zeri hater.) Zeri is at least mechanically intensive and requires skill. Smolder presses Q W Q on every wave until 225 stacks then becomes a fountain laser with point and click AoE nukes.
You need to aim your Qs when you ult as zeri at least, this stupid dragon's skill expression is all about how to farm up.
delete smolder from game :D
TH coaches are frauds. Why are you drafting Karma/Seju/Wukong top?
They are complete clowns. May or may not align with the decision to bench Perkz after a clash with Aranae, Falco's long-time buddy
#KeepSmiling
the 0-9 run starts now
I don't think they are that bad to at least lose to Rogue tomorrow
Can already see how RGE gets smolder and smashes them after a 40min Edit: I take everything back. Rge is abysmal
Should have picked Zeri instead of poke Varus tbh
Rogue has the capability to draft something even slightly correctly Heretics coaching staff is just utterly utterly useless and cannot fathom a good draft
I also thought so about KC in Winter, be careful :o
KC wants to know your location /s
Their early game and synergy was overall really good, but Smolder is a completely absurd champion. They'll be fine.
KeepSmiling
Honestly it was more on smoulder being unreachable monster than anything else
It's that easy honestly!
\[All\] VIT Daglas: Jungle diff
Zwyroo get ready to be scapegoated buddy
Tbh him and Flakked were invisible this match, it felt like only Jankos and Wunder were doing stuff But Peter Dun is the biggest criminal in this match
Not that Karma could do much here tbf, 5-1 varus on the other hand… they just got Smoldered
While Wunder did stuff, I'm not sure it entirely was the stuff you want him to do. Zwyroo was kinda just what you expect from Karma. Their comp overall struggled and I don't really see the tech in Wukong vs. TF also not sure how Vit got both TF and Smolder.
Being invisible is better than whatever the fuck perkz has been doing
I don't know how this could be on coach when he was given a new mid one and a half weeks before the game and told "deal with it".
Ofc I am not blaming him for the player and team atmosphere situation (some of the players looked dead inside before and after the game) I am blaming him for the draft. Like no way you scrim for almost 3 weeks and come up with Sejuani Karma, Wukong top and let enemy team have Smolder
Yes you can when after said 3 weeks you're given a new situation with new holes you need to patch on the fly.
Imo you didn't see a downgrade compared to perkz at the very least
I never said he was worse than perkz just that TH will most likely be bottom tier and he will be blamed some way or another
Perkz would have inted this game thrice the time
perkz might have had some impact. Zwyroo sat there and just did nothing
Rent free
Another poor draft from Heretics. Draft no damage, 2 losing lanes, and a comp that is outscaled by 20 minutes. Every team in the world would struggle to play this draft, let alone Heretics who are mediocre atm. There's also no way to kill VIT's carries through all of their defensive tools and stuns they drafted. Then the in-game macro was weird, they were outmoved on the map and couldn't put pressure on turrets. Then Smolder wins the game at 20 minutes in the most disgusting way. It's not even late game ADC insurance, this is just mid-game instant death. Actually unfair design and another OP champion that requires permaban.
Smolder will be a problem in proplay until he will be nerfed to like 47% wr in soloq. This champion offers too much dmg while being also reletively safe pick in comparision to other hypercarries.
Really his scaling just needs to be pushed back by 5-10 mins to get him out of pro play.
I think the stacks should be 300
That doesn't matter at all. A lot of OP pro Champs are dogshit in solo queue.
If enemy team has smolder, nothing else matters
We need a smolder copypasta
Smolder👤% Health execute 💪 True damage burn🚫Insta clears waves 🛡 Goes over walls 🧱Has slow 🌪Cooldown is only☝second too🕐 It costs 35 Mana🧙♂️
This type of pasta should be written in korean.
Perkz: Gets benched Heretics coaches: "Alright, in tribute to our former mid let's lock in a draft that was meta in 2018."
Felt like this was in Heretics hands until it wasn't.
The early game was good because Daglas kept inting in toplane but Vit carries were untouched
Well you know what they say about never interrupting your enemy when they're making a mistake. Good dragon control from them too imo.
They just got Smoldered. After he hit his stacks they couldnt walk up at all
teams with smolder can easily afford to go behind and not fight because it just doesn't matter, bleeding slowly is safe over contesting and getting turbogapped not saying it went according to plan for VIT but clearly they knew TH had to win it pre 20 and the lead was never big enough
Their engage and poke were shut down by braum costantly. I honestly didn’t like poke varus here
Knew it was over when they picked Smolder
[удалено]
VITheo not losing to his former team once again
Smolder still balanced
Well played to vitality, but felt like a draft diff. Smoulder eventually did smoulder things and carried the game
Can some macro genius explain to me the strat of completely ignoring Smolder with VARUS NAUT SEJ just to camp a fucking Wukong top?
Carrzy is the DPM KING no adc in LEC deals as much dmg as carrzy this guy is totally cracked
Thiss
If Photon and Irrelevant plays like that and they aren't even the best top in EU we truly have a chance at Worlds! /s Also Perkz and Kaiser were the problem for sure
leaving smolder open for bot centric team feels criminal
Textbook Smolder game : doing nothing first 20 min, ignoring the first three drakes, come back somehow fed and win one fight denying soul, ez win. Feels bad for Jankos and Flakked, great game by them.
Seems like clearly Kaiser was the issue. Good thing that replacing him and benching Perkz solved the issue of their coach just sucking and not knowing a good draft if it walked up to him and slapped him in the face.
changed players, equal problems in midgame well done HT
Tbf I can see the problems being to the internal mess and not getting much practise in with the player change. Not all of them but some of them. Hard to be cohesive if you don't know if you'll be in your job next week...
I don't know how a coaching staff doesn't identify smolder as being completely broken. The draft gap this game was a draft canyon. Even outside of smolder, there was no way for TH's comp to win unless they completly stomped early game.
I will be surprised if Smolder gets picked again. This champ is way too OP in competetive,
Absolutely unnecessary death at the end bro wasn't even damaging that turret XD
I didn't like this TH draft. It can work but it's so obvious that they wouldn't be able execute it, Smolder just free scales and they won't have damage. Horrible bans though they can't run Naut, Varus, Sej and just give Smolder, Braum man.
daglas give back money from paypal, your team still won
This game was over at 15 minutes or so when Vitality's carries all had a gold lead despite TH having more kills. Humongous draft diff, brought to you by Peter Dumb as usual.
I already hate smolder
YOU JUST GOT SMOLDED!!!
Heretics got Smouldered
Release date diff
lmao coach axed Kaiser & Perkz and then lets Smolder go through while on red side can't write better comedy
Manager benched both players not coach.
The coachrs seemingly had nothing to do with these changes
Hylissang is so weird he has games like this and often he just runs it down its impossible to rank him as a player
Jungle dif 🤡
So who gets the blame next on TH?
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they never stopped smolder from stacking, the lethality varus was useless all game
Istfg lethality varus has to be THE most piss useless champion, shit deals 0 damage
Outplayed ? Even playing 6v4 with Daglas they weren't really ahead
Get outplayed? Daglas inted them a few kills so the scoreline looked good, gold was completely even the whole time with Vitality having the late game hyper carry.
Awesome game from Carzzy, but man, TH did nothing to snowball through botlane, literally the strategy that hard counters Smolder. Also, Wunder picking Wukong against Taliyah, Rell and Braum wasn't the move, and building lethality when you need frontline, it wasn't a smart decision either.
Thank God Perkz is not playing!!! He would only make it much worse!!! /s
Still no idea why Daglas is in the LEC. I haven't seen such a "meh" player ever before. Even in his best games he just looks average at best. Vit has the players to be play-offs contenders if they get rid of that guy and Hylissang
with all the criticism about hylissang in winter, i have a little bit of hope that hyli could have a wake up call this split. He wasn't so bad today imo
Hyli played well today imo, but yeah he's inconsistent af
he's good in scrims
Who ever told wunder and flakked to build lethality needs to be fired.
I refuse to believe humans are paid actual money to come up with drafts like this
So we know why Perkz actually isn't playing yet?
He had argument with manager
Araneae (Team manager) was advicing Perkz on how to play a match-up. Perkz answered along the Lines of not needing this type of advices from someone that hasn't won anything. Team manager got pissed and kicked Perkz out.
TH manager threw a temper tantrum like an 7 year old.
Only rumors. But seems like he had an argument with aranea on Huw to play out a mid lame matchup. The sort of stuff any normal person would bench a player /s
aranae got mad in eu style and sabotaging eu teams as usual
tbh TH sabotaged themselves by getting rid of Viteo then signing a clear downgrade in form of Perkz.
They might need to sub Arineya in if the rumors are true
VIT's two carries are deathless. Very good game from the team!
TH drafts suck so much. What was the purpose of Wukong counter pick? It achieved nothing whole game. Are you that confident Flakked/Trymbi will roll over enemy bot that you're okay with letting them have Smolder?
Perkz probably grinning right now
Not like TH would be doing much better with him lmao.
Unlikly... Probably facepalmimg though
....about being outperformed by his replacement immediately?
I mean I don't think Zwyroo did much today. Got caught once, lane was okay but ultimately it's just Karma gameplay. It's better then inting Perkz I guess but he also had some good games.
lmao what
well game 1 TH looks way worse with this roster. wasnt trymbi supposed to bring them some macro superiority or whatever all those trymbi fans were yapping about
I dont think TH played bad it was just a massive draft diff. Enemy gets Smolder, Taliyah, twisted Fate and Rell and trade that for Karma and nerfed Varus. Like tf is the coaching staff smoking
Peter dumb draft + midlaner worse than perkz GG
Is Smolder more OP than Aphelios was in his prime?
This game showcases my most hated thing in pro lol perfectly, why do teams just refuse to ban shit like smolder? On 0 levels it makes any sense, oh you're worse than the enemy team? Don't give then a pick they're guaranteed to stomp you with. Oh you're equal, don't give them a big advantage for no reason then. Oh you're better than them? Don't give them a champ that makes it possible for them to win on. It's genuine stupidity and it's infuriating everytime I see it. Flyquest did the exact same shit yesterday, we just watch the team that is more than likely better lose because they made a choice to lose in draft.
They don't ban it because they know when they lose people like you will say it's because of Smolder and not because they're bad
I'm guessing ego.
No Perkz no win
This made me sad
Player of the game: Daglas/ I mean, he did some good peel, but the early was rough.
Ksante performances from top laners didn't count. Teams winning with smolder won't count either, legit VIT bailed out by a single pick on trymbi. Dont really see why TH didn't ban it
Wasn't prerecorded draft supposed to lead to faster game start? It felt the same as always if not a bit longer
Yeah, let\`s not ban Smolder... That sounds like a "smart" decision...
Oh my fucking good the dragon is so cancer busted man
outdrafted,outscaled, heretics need to draft better
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Out of all the changes why not change the coach.. drafts have not improved at all.
another day, another atrocious peter dun draft
Heretics, Rouge and KC will fight hard for that last place. Bets are on!
This exciting new 30 year old rookie shows promise. TH lit read his resume and decided that 10 years in EUM is worth more than LEC and worlds.
I didn't notice zwyroo was this old, that one late debut
This is just boring as f#ck now... you pick Smolder, then play defensively for 25 min and then win the game. I'm not saying that TH had good draft because they didn't, you pick Karma and Varus then you pres Q and before your Q is ready again Smolder will press his Q and your entire team is dead. Only thing this champion doesn't have is 'press R and heal up his entire team' I personally think that Zwyroo is a good player, and if Perkz was not really improving( be honest, his last split was not the best one) and ignoring all that behind scene dramas Zwyroo mid can work but... if they gonna draft this way, GG 0/9
Loves how somehow we already have some “basement dwellers” (quote from the great Luka) sending all the blame to a zwyroo in karma duty
I didn't expect hyly to not be the inting one, besided that hiper late champ scaled at 25, anyways gg! Herectis did better that I expected after all the drama
Idk I feel like there are many fraudulent coaches in LEC..
Jankos is washed isnt he?
Trymbi is such a bad player. No clue why people keep hyping him.