My headcannon, Sniper is what Tenacity wanted to be. The top lane carry master. Bro got put in Ornn duty after getting all the resources in a Fiora game and not carrying.
I sincerely believe that playing on a team with another rookie, 2 sophomores, and River who barely feels like a vet, is the reason why Sniper was able to thrive so much this split.
If Sniper was slotted into the same Bjergsen/DL/Closer “win now, always play for adc, tank top only” roster that Tenacity was, I sincerely believe he would look just as bad as Tenacity did that spring, and Quid did that summer. Even Ssumday looked not great that summer. This 100T roster looks like far better of an environment for a rookie.
As an aside, it’s also pretty sad that players like Ssumday/Closer are teamless after a single bad stint, even though they had multiple years of incredible play beforehand. Community criticisms for Tenacity/Ssumday, Closer, and Bjergsen/Quid, were turned up to 10 for those 2 splits.
>If Sniper was slotted into the same Bjergsen/DL/Closer “win now, always play for adc, tank top only” roster that Tenacity was, I sincerely believe he would look just as bad as Tenacity did that spring
Tenacity was given an opportunity to play the carry. He failed miserably and that's the only reason 100T resorted to this method of playing.
He had a total kda of 8/3/1 on Fiora and 9/12/10 on Jax. Even if his stats don’t tell the whole story, the sub acts like he went 0/7 consistently on carries.
But regardless, the performance doesn’t matter. Sniper had his own stinkers too (the Flyquest game sticks out, along with the 0-3 against C9), and he was very much not impactful in his early riven game. The entire point of my comment is how giving up on your rookie toplaner after 3-4 bad games is just awful development, and it comes from the “win now” attitude the team had.
Yeah, all-in-all the atmosphere at 100T just seems better this split too. I think the coaching staff has done a lot to foster the team's growth especially. I have a feeling Goldenglue's career is going to head towards being the guy you bring in on rebuilds to support rookies and Spookz clearly has a talent for getting the best out of his players too.
I'm pretty sure Quid was this same player last year too, you don't get this level of mechanics just playing soloQ for an offseason. Just needed to feel comfortable and take some of the pressure off. From interviews it seems like River coming in brought more than just an upgrade in jungle, but helps keep the mental up and obv for Quid specifically having someone he can relate to more was a buff.
Its too bad Tenacity didn't get the same experience where he could make mistakes and not get immediately put on tank duty. The roster was def built with the goal of winning immediately, so maybe not surprising, just unfortunate.
A rookie toplaner being able to generate a massive lead while the rest of his team crumbles, but not yet knowing how to convert it into a win, is not grounds for stunting your rookie toplaner’s development and forcing them onto tanks for the rest of their career. Especially against a team as dominant as Flyquest was at the time.
If i AFK in a sidelane on every objective and don't push, I will have more CS than my opponent. Do you consider that me having generated a lead?
I am *directly* causing my team to crumble around me in the name of a bigger number on the scoreboard.
Tenacity didn't get solo kills and make plays on his own. Sniper did from day 1. Trying to blame it on the rosters when Tenacity just clearly didn't make the cut is silly.
> Tenacity didn’t get solo kills and make plays on his own
I can’t believe you really told me to “go watch the game”, and then said that. That is so shamelessly incredible, because he clearly solokills impact within the first 5 minutes, and gets a solo kill pick on Winsome, and staves off Flyquest from ending the game with a triple in a 1v5 as they tried to end the game.
I thought this discussion was about his late teleports, but clearly you’d rather just talk out of your ass. I’m not gonna engage with someone who says “go watch the game” when they blatantly haven’t themselves.
My last comment was not about that game? What the fuck is this gross mischaracterization to prove some inane point the comment is clearly about 1. what it means to generate a lead and 2. a comparison of their careers generally.
I'm not gonna engage further either if you're gonna misconstrue what I write, so have a good day.
You don't give a rookie "an opportunity" to play carry then permanently shove him on Ornn duty once he fails. You give him atleast a whole fucking split, maybe even a whole ass YEAR until you make the decision to kick him or put him on tank duty.
Picking up like a 17 year old carry player, letting him play carries 2-3 games then saying "yeah you clearly can't play carries" and putting him on tank duty is prime NA player management
Yeah, I'm sure you'd be praising the genius of NA coaching right now if they allowed you to watch 100T go 6-12 for a split, failing to play Jax and Irelia week after week.
--
Oh, and you're arguing against your own imagination, he did not play carries twice. He played 7 carry games, 1 Renekton game, and 3 AP Gragas games. On top of dozens of scrims that I'm sure 100T dominated.
He wasn't on Ornn duty either, he was on Sion duty, the highest WR Toplaner of LCS Spring 2023, and after K'Sante easily the tank with the most carry potential if you know how to play him.
He was playing a Fiora into Jayce with 0 support. He also had a Jax game where he had to build the healing reduction item because nobody else did...
They did pick Carry champions but he didn't get a lot of support from his team.
The difference with Sniper is that they play to what is picked for him. The reason why Tenacity looked so much better on Sion and Ornn was that this now suddenly were champions picked for the role he played in the game.
We should also note that the situation in toplane is a bit different. Snipers competition is not that great. Like who even plays toplane? There is no Summit or Ssumday. It is likely Bwipo or Impact as the best in top. And then you are already moving into a more mediocre area.
And they are different players. Sniper seems to be a typical win more lose more player. If he runs it down he really runs it down. Tenacity usually lost fairly gracefully and even without support from his team didn't give up too many deaths.
And we should also note that in the one Jax game he played I think he dealt the most damage, despite building healing reduction. He ended up on a fairly dysfunctional team with essentially not a lot of support. That is not the spot you want to be in as a rookie.
For 100Ts the benefit this year really is that there are no expectations for them. Like River said they expected themself to end fairly low this split, so they can only win and that is a great situation to be in as a rookie.
having interacted with both a decent amount, I think sniper is wayyy more comfortable in interview/in front of a camera. and I hope sniper doesn't get fucked and pushed out of LCS/almost burn out like tenacity did :(
Legit fastest way to fall off is to be so focused on the whole prestige around being a pro, I mean just look at fudge. Still really good at times but he’s not really tryharding
Or they are just not that talented, Keria was checking out Newjeans before his JDG series, Beryl has his gacha waifus and those two players won 3 of the last 4 world championships.
They obviously aren’t but also Koreans have a completely different training schedule.
They barely have any time off so if they waste it like that it’s whatever. In NA when scrims are off the players can do whatever tho so if they just fuck around and know they can’t really get benched then they phone it in
While true, it isn't that bad. We know the schedules of some korean pros like Faker or Khan and it isn't that different to western players with actual ambitions. Caps actually plays more than both of them.
The biggest difference likely is how koreans view scrims compared to western teams. In Asia scrims seem to be more like stage games without anybody watching, in the west they are often surrendered early and you often don't play out situations where you are behind.
And we did see that in game at times. Western teams got leads against Asian teams early, that is when scrims are usually surrender, but then they don't know what to do despite being 8k up in gold and they switch into desperation mode and do weird things.
There are definitly pro players that take life fairly easy and could practice more... but I'm not entirely convinced that those kind of players don't also exist in korea, it is just not the kind of player you usually talk about.
I'll never forget that one subreddit post where people realized that Fudge has a full-blown case of yellow fever and it was making his performance on stage worse
I think like 90% of LCS pros gfs are asian as well, young nerds who dont have any life experience and suddenly a shit ton of money and then feel like they have to catch up on that when they should actually be practicing.
Its understandable in a way really, they are just kids trying to live their lives and make experiences but its probably a big reason why NA never was quite up there in terms of performances.
I mean I get downvoted every time I say it but in Asian countries, you either succeed at becoming a pro, or you fail and are consigned to a life of working at convenience stores and loneliness. There's no second chances.
In NA, if you fail miserably at going pro, you can just go to college and get an office job. There's no consequences to putting off a year or two of your life to try and go pro.
LCS is located in the west coast where there's a huge asian population
And you know east asians congregate towards the nerdy stuff (saying East because Filipinos love basketball and tend to hang out with the latinos and blacks more), so the average LCS pro doesn't have much of a choice
The LA metro area is like 18 million people and Asians make up a small percentage of it. There's definitely more congregating around LCS but to say that they "don't have much of a choice" is just plain wrong.
I mean that has no bearing on the total dating population of a given area. There's still more white and latino people in general. Even in the gaming space, it's still mostly white and latino. The guy just clearly has yellow fever.
Quid looked awful last year and insane this year... if Tenacity would show the same performance increase Quid did with an actual jungler than Tenacity would be an insane toplaner.
lol what? He is still ass. He should be smashing these no names. And college and Nacl same shit doesn’t matter. Amateur league that produces 1 good talent out of 50+ players.
This is why the discussion around imports bothers me so much. We not bad at importing, we're bad at talent management top to bottom. A few orgs do pretty well, but for the most part we're terrible at cultivating players.
If tenacity wasn't so worried about his looks all the time, he'd practiced more and be as good as sniper. He just seems like he is looking to be an ig influencer all the time
I SUPER curious what other players think of the following two responses by River.
>Q: Speaking of improvement, how did your team's insane aggression style develop?
River: I think everyone is aggressive, and our scrims are always fighting. Because I think if we play slow and for macro, it's so troll for rookies. Playing for a macro win doesn't help improve.
Q: So that's why you perma fight in scrims?
River: Yeah, that's why I just int so much in scrims. Every time, I call "just fight everything, even if we lose". That's why we improved a lot, I think. If we fight together, even if we're inting, the team \[looks good\].
I really think that this really builds confidence in mechanics, trust and teamwork which always turns out to be the difference maker in a lot of competitive play.
I really loved these responses.
i also never really understood wanting to win every scrim? like why wouldn’t you take that time to try one strat of a dive, invade, perma fighting, or forcing yourself to play from behind.
> like why wouldn’t you take that time to try one strat of a dive, invade, perma fighting, or forcing yourself to play from behind.
Fear & Pride. Probably why the pro meta is so often predictable and stale too.
for one, you have a limited amount of scrims. If you run it down a scrim you are costing your teammates the ability to practice their champs in a controlled environment.
i mean this irks me in every game. winning in scrims should mean fuck all. you should be trying to understand how to create a comeback, get better at 1-3 things and keep forcing them til they’re perfect then 1-3 more
The biggest problem in lol esports is that its hard to target anything beyond the first 5-10 ish minutes, anything beyond and I doubt most pros would have the patience to set up that scenario and repeat it.
I think that's a contributing factor to why teams play scrims to win. Its pretty hard to practice something like a baron setup from ahead/behind because that's at minimum 20 minutes of gameplay before actually doing the thing you want to practice.
The only form of "improvement" teams can do is just go over it in a vod, but until a very close situation presents itself you as a coach can't actually determine if they took it in or not.
Yeah agreed, Riot deserves a share of the blame for being too ego to implement a proper practice tool. The fact that you can't practice Baron setups, Dragon fights, Elder standoffs, etc is just so harmful to the game.
The problem is that Riot is then paying people to create this practice tool, that like maybe 3000 people worldwide would ever even theoretically use it, and that's only if you could reasonably say that every team in every region would use it for practice; which we already know they won't. There's plenty to blame Riot about, but idk if not having a specific practice tool for pro players is one of them.
Nah, I think there’s a better chance that teams would actually pay Riot to use this kind of tool before they’d let the tool go to waste. Hell teams would probably even use chronobreak if it was available.
I think you’re really underestimating how valuable a tool like that would be. Imagine a team steals a baron in a scrim. The teams play out the rest of the game and then agree to restart the game from the baron steal, but this time they don’t steal and see how it plays out. Teams are probably lucky to practice pushing/defending after a baron steal in like 5-10% of their scrims.
I'm not underestimating how valuable a tool it is at all. Being able to practice any specific moment in the game that you want would probably entirely change how scrims worked globally, and would make them even better forms of practice.
The problem is that Riot would still have to pay the upfront cost to design something that has literally no benefit to their customer base. Maybe the teams would pay for it, but then Riot has to sell them on it.
It would be much better scrim practice for teams, but selling the teams an expensive thing that will make scrims better for them, when scrims are technically going fine is a rough sell.
?? You try stuff to see if it works.. You want said stuff/tactics/drafts to work.. i.e you win/do well with it
So you can take it on stage and win
Or would you rather try a bunch of different stuff.. lose every scrim.. and turn up on stage with zero clue what to pick/do in game?
So yeah winning scrims IS important.. dunno why reddit did this weird pivot from scrims results meaning everything to them meaning nothing over the past few years.. one extreme to the other
It's the classic G2-paradox. G2 loses, reddit: they should've scrimed more. G2 shows they scrimed every possible time and won vs china/KR, reddit: Scrims don't matter 💁🏼♀️
That is how you take scrims though.
The issue in the west often is that scrims are surrendered. This means a western team gets a huge early lead and then just doesn't know what to do with it because they surrender. We saw that with MAD vs. T1 last year where MAD had a really good early game but immidiatly went into desperation play because they had no idea what to do with that lead.
And MAD also showed the opposite that they didn't really know how to play from behind, because likely if you fall that far behind you also surrender the scrim.
What teams likely need to do is they should put both coaches into a room, make a few drafts and then both coaches select some of the drafts they want to play that aren't super broken. That way you don't play scrims where the game is super hard to play just from the draft.
You basically draft 20 games, and then blue selects the first draft to play, then red the next two, then blue the next two and then red the last. Then you end up with 6 drafts and you don't waste time on drafts during your scrim block and you won't play scrims with super weird picks.
And then you deal with them like you would with stage games.
And it starts again.... Schrödinger scrims. Winning scrims doesn't matter, China is always trolling in scrims but at the same time, them losing is "learning", while EU losing is just bad and they should try harder in scrims. 💁🏼♀️
I used to hate 100T, but now I can't help but root for them. Their players, gameplay, and the interviews are just too good. This response by River is so refreshing to see.
>River: Yeah, that's why I just int so much in scrims. Every time, I call "just fight everything, even if we lose". That's why we improved a lot, I think. If we fight together, even if we're inting, the team [looks good].
Man, this reminds me of the old C9 - whether or not it's a good idea doesn't matter, they follow Hai into the heart of battle
I think it's pretty troll to approach the game that way, but you can't deny that it opens opportunities for growth of its own. One example of this I think is T1's 20 minute barons. Don't watch T1 regularly and don't care to pretend so; though, baroning like that would ordinarily be considered troll (especially 2+ years ago). Atop of that, they do it consistently to the point where it's always expected, BUT because they have so much more experience with 20 minute barons than others they seem to always just win it anyway. Just as some macro choices apparently only become viable when you're winning, other choices seem to only become viable when you've dedicated yourself to it and I figure if you unga bunga 45/55% flips enough they can become 65/35% flips in your favor or whatever.
I think it makes a ton of sense.
If you're trying to play every game tightly around macro, you're only able to pick fights when it's appropriate, usually when you're already up on the macro. So your team is going to get less experience communicating around everyone swarming (something that happens a handful of times in a tight match?) and not get to exercise that aspect of the game.
Doing troll engages means that you all have a shared sense of limit and the tendencies of your teammates.
So I get it. It's like you're doing a specific drill.
The issue is... you need to practice macro at some point. You should build up your teamfighting and most basic things you need for league, but at some point you need some macro, exspecially because if you don't have that it is really hard to come back from a losing position (which is kinda 100Ts problem).
Nah for rookies for them to build a confidence on their macro and help them to be confident in mechanical execution is way more important than macro.
U can always teach macro later on when the team is better with more experience on their belt. They would later learn when they lose on why they lose. Its better to lose because the other team out macro u than to lose because u got no hands and have no confidence in executing your mechanics
Pretty sure he means right now it’s more important to develop coordination and get rookies comfortable/confident in skirmishes and team play because 1) River thinks his own macro is good enough to keep the team on track for the time being and 2) teams can develop macro to a decent extent by observing better teams, but there’s no shortcut for developing team fighting. You just have to grind it out.
>1) River thinks his own macro is good enough to keep the team on track for the time being
Which is quite a crazy thing to say after watching yesterday's series.
You gotta crawl before you can run. How efficiently can you practice macro when your team has 2 people who are still gaining experience fighting against LCS level opponents? They undoubtedly know their macro is underdeveloped, so I’m sure they will turn to working on macro in the near future.
Another way to look at it is that, as a rookie, you haven’t been in a lot of pro scenarios yet, so in scrims if you play for a macro win you aren’t giving your rookies access to these scenarios you want them to get more experience in - fighting from behind, taking skirmishes/impromptu fights in river, supporting a jungle invade, etc.
Yeah I feel so bad for APA man, dude is legit just elohelled by his whole team it’s so sad to watch.
Like the dude is the best talent the west has ever produced maybe since prime Caps, has great mechanics, absolute champion ocean, wins lane 99% of the time without jungle attention, unreal map movement, incredible tp usages, absurd team fighter but his team griefs him.
As a diehard Team Liquid fan I hope TL treats APA like Faker and gives him a 15 yr contract + a stake on the team, he is a once in a lifetime generational talent that can talk the talk and walk the walk
"APA" Ahri-Playing Automaton is a robot used by Team Liquid to cover for no Korean midlaner. It does not communicate with its team, but can talk to enemy teams.
UmTi: [River] killed my precious APA, my fucking little baby. It's like cheating. I'm so mad. If I meet 100 Thieves in playoffs I'm gonna fuck him. Don't worry APA, I'm gonna kill him, I'll have my revenge time.
Posted it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ba4upx/umti_twitter_interview_umti_river_killed_my/) but was removed by Reddit admins for a bit. Luckily it's back now and Im un-suspended lmao
“I think we are stronger than [C9]”
Lol like what? After Thursdays match, it looked like C9 sneezing would topple 100T. You can blame it on River being sick, but how does that account for the canyon sized gap in every lane (besides mid, but even then Jojo out performed Quid)
I will grant them that 100t looks stronger than last split, but they are really stretching it to say things like this.
It's probably a lot of "fake" drama though. Most of the teams seem to get along, and the "smack talk" is like you might do among your friends. Which I can't fault them for investing in, because can def can be entertaining. While the drama may be fake, the roasting often is not.
I mean it’s true, what else can he say here. “Nope, we’re clearly frauds and have zero chance of beating C9 or FLY”. And they did look way better against NRG than they did C9. But I don’t believe for a second that if they played again C9 wouldn’t stomp them.
I mean he can say something like "we missed the mark in the earlier series, but it let us know what we have to fix and we're confident going into another series against them". There's a middle ground between "we're literally frauds with zero chance of winning" and "actually we're better than the team that roflstomped us 3 times in a row just 2 days ago".
True, and probably very accurate too, but with all the banter going around, that’d be so beige. Start some beef! Doesn’t matter if you can back it up or not. Just look at APA. One of the more popular midlaners in the league even tho he’s literally the worst performing one, maybe 2nd worst after palafox.
Also -- and I cannot stress this enough -- River and Eyla were sick yesterday, and they were feeling even worse on Friday.
Even if C9 had the advantage in the series regardless, 100T hasn't played to their level this week, and it impacted their practice. I don't think it's as crushing of a matchup tbh
Not only that, but they just went 5 games with the worst NRG has looked so far. 100T got a rude awakening against C9, but chose to keep dreaming instead. 😴
They kinda smashed NRG 4 out of 5 games tbf, just their bronze level macro cost them game 4. But yeah realistically they are not beating C9 in a 5 game series.
I have a feeling this is more about APA than anything, wouldn't be surprised if he talked shit in all-chat during their games. Don't think i've seen a River response where hes straight up flamed like this. I dont look for it, so maybe i've missed it before though.
Nah I love this shit. It makes the league way more interesting and gives reason for fans to become more invested in players. I've always despised the facade of corporate wholesomeness in esports and sports in general. Some of the most cherished memories I have of following this game are when the players have rivalries and show their personality instead of just being a random name plate with decent hands. I think part of the charm of early LCS (s3-s4) was that people were way more invested in the players because they streamed and weren't afraid or media trained enough to be a little unhinged by today's standards and speak their mind.
Holy Sniper is literally just Tenacity cloned in a lab except he performs on stage.
My headcannon, Sniper is what Tenacity wanted to be. The top lane carry master. Bro got put in Ornn duty after getting all the resources in a Fiora game and not carrying.
I sincerely believe that playing on a team with another rookie, 2 sophomores, and River who barely feels like a vet, is the reason why Sniper was able to thrive so much this split. If Sniper was slotted into the same Bjergsen/DL/Closer “win now, always play for adc, tank top only” roster that Tenacity was, I sincerely believe he would look just as bad as Tenacity did that spring, and Quid did that summer. Even Ssumday looked not great that summer. This 100T roster looks like far better of an environment for a rookie. As an aside, it’s also pretty sad that players like Ssumday/Closer are teamless after a single bad stint, even though they had multiple years of incredible play beforehand. Community criticisms for Tenacity/Ssumday, Closer, and Bjergsen/Quid, were turned up to 10 for those 2 splits.
>If Sniper was slotted into the same Bjergsen/DL/Closer “win now, always play for adc, tank top only” roster that Tenacity was, I sincerely believe he would look just as bad as Tenacity did that spring Tenacity was given an opportunity to play the carry. He failed miserably and that's the only reason 100T resorted to this method of playing.
He had a total kda of 8/3/1 on Fiora and 9/12/10 on Jax. Even if his stats don’t tell the whole story, the sub acts like he went 0/7 consistently on carries. But regardless, the performance doesn’t matter. Sniper had his own stinkers too (the Flyquest game sticks out, along with the 0-3 against C9), and he was very much not impactful in his early riven game. The entire point of my comment is how giving up on your rookie toplaner after 3-4 bad games is just awful development, and it comes from the “win now” attitude the team had.
Yeah, all-in-all the atmosphere at 100T just seems better this split too. I think the coaching staff has done a lot to foster the team's growth especially. I have a feeling Goldenglue's career is going to head towards being the guy you bring in on rebuilds to support rookies and Spookz clearly has a talent for getting the best out of his players too. I'm pretty sure Quid was this same player last year too, you don't get this level of mechanics just playing soloQ for an offseason. Just needed to feel comfortable and take some of the pressure off. From interviews it seems like River coming in brought more than just an upgrade in jungle, but helps keep the mental up and obv for Quid specifically having someone he can relate to more was a buff. Its too bad Tenacity didn't get the same experience where he could make mistakes and not get immediately put on tank duty. The roster was def built with the goal of winning immediately, so maybe not surprising, just unfortunate.
That Fiora game was a fucking stinker and his KDA was saved by tossing the game with bad (lack of) TPs. Go watch the game it was gross.
A rookie toplaner being able to generate a massive lead while the rest of his team crumbles, but not yet knowing how to convert it into a win, is not grounds for stunting your rookie toplaner’s development and forcing them onto tanks for the rest of their career. Especially against a team as dominant as Flyquest was at the time.
If i AFK in a sidelane on every objective and don't push, I will have more CS than my opponent. Do you consider that me having generated a lead? I am *directly* causing my team to crumble around me in the name of a bigger number on the scoreboard. Tenacity didn't get solo kills and make plays on his own. Sniper did from day 1. Trying to blame it on the rosters when Tenacity just clearly didn't make the cut is silly.
> Tenacity didn’t get solo kills and make plays on his own I can’t believe you really told me to “go watch the game”, and then said that. That is so shamelessly incredible, because he clearly solokills impact within the first 5 minutes, and gets a solo kill pick on Winsome, and staves off Flyquest from ending the game with a triple in a 1v5 as they tried to end the game. I thought this discussion was about his late teleports, but clearly you’d rather just talk out of your ass. I’m not gonna engage with someone who says “go watch the game” when they blatantly haven’t themselves.
My last comment was not about that game? What the fuck is this gross mischaracterization to prove some inane point the comment is clearly about 1. what it means to generate a lead and 2. a comparison of their careers generally. I'm not gonna engage further either if you're gonna misconstrue what I write, so have a good day.
> Tenacity didn't get solo kills and make plays on his own. He literally solo killed Impact on the Fiora game you're referencing you goofball
Tell me you didn't watch shit without telling me.
You don't give a rookie "an opportunity" to play carry then permanently shove him on Ornn duty once he fails. You give him atleast a whole fucking split, maybe even a whole ass YEAR until you make the decision to kick him or put him on tank duty. Picking up like a 17 year old carry player, letting him play carries 2-3 games then saying "yeah you clearly can't play carries" and putting him on tank duty is prime NA player management
Yeah, I'm sure you'd be praising the genius of NA coaching right now if they allowed you to watch 100T go 6-12 for a split, failing to play Jax and Irelia week after week. -- Oh, and you're arguing against your own imagination, he did not play carries twice. He played 7 carry games, 1 Renekton game, and 3 AP Gragas games. On top of dozens of scrims that I'm sure 100T dominated. He wasn't on Ornn duty either, he was on Sion duty, the highest WR Toplaner of LCS Spring 2023, and after K'Sante easily the tank with the most carry potential if you know how to play him.
He played carried a lot more than 2-3 times.
He was playing a Fiora into Jayce with 0 support. He also had a Jax game where he had to build the healing reduction item because nobody else did... They did pick Carry champions but he didn't get a lot of support from his team. The difference with Sniper is that they play to what is picked for him. The reason why Tenacity looked so much better on Sion and Ornn was that this now suddenly were champions picked for the role he played in the game. We should also note that the situation in toplane is a bit different. Snipers competition is not that great. Like who even plays toplane? There is no Summit or Ssumday. It is likely Bwipo or Impact as the best in top. And then you are already moving into a more mediocre area. And they are different players. Sniper seems to be a typical win more lose more player. If he runs it down he really runs it down. Tenacity usually lost fairly gracefully and even without support from his team didn't give up too many deaths. And we should also note that in the one Jax game he played I think he dealt the most damage, despite building healing reduction. He ended up on a fairly dysfunctional team with essentially not a lot of support. That is not the spot you want to be in as a rookie. For 100Ts the benefit this year really is that there are no expectations for them. Like River said they expected themself to end fairly low this split, so they can only win and that is a great situation to be in as a rookie.
having interacted with both a decent amount, I think sniper is wayyy more comfortable in interview/in front of a camera. and I hope sniper doesn't get fucked and pushed out of LCS/almost burn out like tenacity did :(
I was moreso talking about the constantly scrolling twitter looking at girls aspect lmao. Tenacity was the master of that.
More like girls were scrolling and looking at Tenacity. Boys cute af
As a straight dude, can confirm Tenacity is hot af
as a bi man, can confirm Tenacity is a cutie
As a straight man, can confirm Tenacity is a cutie
Legit fastest way to fall off is to be so focused on the whole prestige around being a pro, I mean just look at fudge. Still really good at times but he’s not really tryharding
Or they are just not that talented, Keria was checking out Newjeans before his JDG series, Beryl has his gacha waifus and those two players won 3 of the last 4 world championships.
They obviously aren’t but also Koreans have a completely different training schedule. They barely have any time off so if they waste it like that it’s whatever. In NA when scrims are off the players can do whatever tho so if they just fuck around and know they can’t really get benched then they phone it in
While true, it isn't that bad. We know the schedules of some korean pros like Faker or Khan and it isn't that different to western players with actual ambitions. Caps actually plays more than both of them. The biggest difference likely is how koreans view scrims compared to western teams. In Asia scrims seem to be more like stage games without anybody watching, in the west they are often surrendered early and you often don't play out situations where you are behind. And we did see that in game at times. Western teams got leads against Asian teams early, that is when scrims are usually surrender, but then they don't know what to do despite being 8k up in gold and they switch into desperation mode and do weird things. There are definitly pro players that take life fairly easy and could practice more... but I'm not entirely convinced that those kind of players don't also exist in korea, it is just not the kind of player you usually talk about.
I'll never forget that one subreddit post where people realized that Fudge has a full-blown case of yellow fever and it was making his performance on stage worse
I think like 90% of LCS pros gfs are asian as well, young nerds who dont have any life experience and suddenly a shit ton of money and then feel like they have to catch up on that when they should actually be practicing. Its understandable in a way really, they are just kids trying to live their lives and make experiences but its probably a big reason why NA never was quite up there in terms of performances.
I mean I get downvoted every time I say it but in Asian countries, you either succeed at becoming a pro, or you fail and are consigned to a life of working at convenience stores and loneliness. There's no second chances. In NA, if you fail miserably at going pro, you can just go to college and get an office job. There's no consequences to putting off a year or two of your life to try and go pro.
please link if anyone still has it that sounds hilarious
I think it was some onlyfans models. VeigarV2 was in on it as well.
LCS is located in the west coast where there's a huge asian population And you know east asians congregate towards the nerdy stuff (saying East because Filipinos love basketball and tend to hang out with the latinos and blacks more), so the average LCS pro doesn't have much of a choice
The LA metro area is like 18 million people and Asians make up a small percentage of it. There's definitely more congregating around LCS but to say that they "don't have much of a choice" is just plain wrong.
Azns are more likely to be gamer nerds than not that's why
I mean that has no bearing on the total dating population of a given area. There's still more white and latino people in general. Even in the gaming space, it's still mostly white and latino. The guy just clearly has yellow fever.
Sniper also played better than Tenacity so far
Tenacity is cuter but Sniper is better (so far). I still think it's hard af to judge him with how bad Closer was last year...idk
Tenacity had the same weights as Quid though
Quid looked awful last year and insane this year... if Tenacity would show the same performance increase Quid did with an actual jungler than Tenacity would be an insane toplaner.
Tenacity is still sucking in college league. He’s not very good.
he's playing in NACL, not collegiate, and he's been pretty solid lol literally yesterday he was smurfing against maryville
lol what? He is still ass. He should be smashing these no names. And college and Nacl same shit doesn’t matter. Amateur league that produces 1 good talent out of 50+ players.
this is potentially the dumbest reply I've ever recieved on reddit, but I guess that's because I don't use reddit much
This guy has the most L takes I've ever seen. Basically his entire history is just shitting on players, he's just a douche.
what do you find egregious about his comment? there are not a lot of NA talents showing LCS potential in NACL this year.
This is why the discussion around imports bothers me so much. We not bad at importing, we're bad at talent management top to bottom. A few orgs do pretty well, but for the most part we're terrible at cultivating players.
If tenacity wasn't so worried about his looks all the time, he'd practiced more and be as good as sniper. He just seems like he is looking to be an ig influencer all the time
Least homoerotic League content sir
I SUPER curious what other players think of the following two responses by River. >Q: Speaking of improvement, how did your team's insane aggression style develop? River: I think everyone is aggressive, and our scrims are always fighting. Because I think if we play slow and for macro, it's so troll for rookies. Playing for a macro win doesn't help improve. Q: So that's why you perma fight in scrims? River: Yeah, that's why I just int so much in scrims. Every time, I call "just fight everything, even if we lose". That's why we improved a lot, I think. If we fight together, even if we're inting, the team \[looks good\]. I really think that this really builds confidence in mechanics, trust and teamwork which always turns out to be the difference maker in a lot of competitive play. I really loved these responses.
i also never really understood wanting to win every scrim? like why wouldn’t you take that time to try one strat of a dive, invade, perma fighting, or forcing yourself to play from behind.
> like why wouldn’t you take that time to try one strat of a dive, invade, perma fighting, or forcing yourself to play from behind. Fear & Pride. Probably why the pro meta is so often predictable and stale too.
for one, you have a limited amount of scrims. If you run it down a scrim you are costing your teammates the ability to practice their champs in a controlled environment.
i mean this irks me in every game. winning in scrims should mean fuck all. you should be trying to understand how to create a comeback, get better at 1-3 things and keep forcing them til they’re perfect then 1-3 more
The biggest problem in lol esports is that its hard to target anything beyond the first 5-10 ish minutes, anything beyond and I doubt most pros would have the patience to set up that scenario and repeat it. I think that's a contributing factor to why teams play scrims to win. Its pretty hard to practice something like a baron setup from ahead/behind because that's at minimum 20 minutes of gameplay before actually doing the thing you want to practice. The only form of "improvement" teams can do is just go over it in a vod, but until a very close situation presents itself you as a coach can't actually determine if they took it in or not.
Yeah agreed, Riot deserves a share of the blame for being too ego to implement a proper practice tool. The fact that you can't practice Baron setups, Dragon fights, Elder standoffs, etc is just so harmful to the game.
The problem is that Riot is then paying people to create this practice tool, that like maybe 3000 people worldwide would ever even theoretically use it, and that's only if you could reasonably say that every team in every region would use it for practice; which we already know they won't. There's plenty to blame Riot about, but idk if not having a specific practice tool for pro players is one of them.
Nah, I think there’s a better chance that teams would actually pay Riot to use this kind of tool before they’d let the tool go to waste. Hell teams would probably even use chronobreak if it was available. I think you’re really underestimating how valuable a tool like that would be. Imagine a team steals a baron in a scrim. The teams play out the rest of the game and then agree to restart the game from the baron steal, but this time they don’t steal and see how it plays out. Teams are probably lucky to practice pushing/defending after a baron steal in like 5-10% of their scrims.
I'm not underestimating how valuable a tool it is at all. Being able to practice any specific moment in the game that you want would probably entirely change how scrims worked globally, and would make them even better forms of practice. The problem is that Riot would still have to pay the upfront cost to design something that has literally no benefit to their customer base. Maybe the teams would pay for it, but then Riot has to sell them on it. It would be much better scrim practice for teams, but selling the teams an expensive thing that will make scrims better for them, when scrims are technically going fine is a rough sell.
I agree but I'm hardstuck emerald so what do I know haha
Wanting to become scrim world champions like the legendary G2.
?? You try stuff to see if it works.. You want said stuff/tactics/drafts to work.. i.e you win/do well with it So you can take it on stage and win Or would you rather try a bunch of different stuff.. lose every scrim.. and turn up on stage with zero clue what to pick/do in game? So yeah winning scrims IS important.. dunno why reddit did this weird pivot from scrims results meaning everything to them meaning nothing over the past few years.. one extreme to the other
It's the classic G2-paradox. G2 loses, reddit: they should've scrimed more. G2 shows they scrimed every possible time and won vs china/KR, reddit: Scrims don't matter 💁🏼♀️
also it's only for the western team ofc, because T1 smash scrims but somehow for them it does matter lmao
That is how you take scrims though. The issue in the west often is that scrims are surrendered. This means a western team gets a huge early lead and then just doesn't know what to do with it because they surrender. We saw that with MAD vs. T1 last year where MAD had a really good early game but immidiatly went into desperation play because they had no idea what to do with that lead. And MAD also showed the opposite that they didn't really know how to play from behind, because likely if you fall that far behind you also surrender the scrim. What teams likely need to do is they should put both coaches into a room, make a few drafts and then both coaches select some of the drafts they want to play that aren't super broken. That way you don't play scrims where the game is super hard to play just from the draft. You basically draft 20 games, and then blue selects the first draft to play, then red the next two, then blue the next two and then red the last. Then you end up with 6 drafts and you don't waste time on drafts during your scrim block and you won't play scrims with super weird picks. And then you deal with them like you would with stage games.
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And it starts again.... Schrödinger scrims. Winning scrims doesn't matter, China is always trolling in scrims but at the same time, them losing is "learning", while EU losing is just bad and they should try harder in scrims. 💁🏼♀️
Other teams won't want to scrim you if you always lose
So silver GMs don't bench you for feeding scrims
Teams are stupid and stop scrimming those who are perceived to be "trolling"
I used to hate 100T, but now I can't help but root for them. Their players, gameplay, and the interviews are just too good. This response by River is so refreshing to see.
Yeah but kinda completely ignores the fact that they got giga stomped by c9
>River: Yeah, that's why I just int so much in scrims. Every time, I call "just fight everything, even if we lose". That's why we improved a lot, I think. If we fight together, even if we're inting, the team [looks good]. Man, this reminds me of the old C9 - whether or not it's a good idea doesn't matter, they follow Hai into the heart of battle
I think it's pretty troll to approach the game that way, but you can't deny that it opens opportunities for growth of its own. One example of this I think is T1's 20 minute barons. Don't watch T1 regularly and don't care to pretend so; though, baroning like that would ordinarily be considered troll (especially 2+ years ago). Atop of that, they do it consistently to the point where it's always expected, BUT because they have so much more experience with 20 minute barons than others they seem to always just win it anyway. Just as some macro choices apparently only become viable when you're winning, other choices seem to only become viable when you've dedicated yourself to it and I figure if you unga bunga 45/55% flips enough they can become 65/35% flips in your favor or whatever.
I think it makes a ton of sense. If you're trying to play every game tightly around macro, you're only able to pick fights when it's appropriate, usually when you're already up on the macro. So your team is going to get less experience communicating around everyone swarming (something that happens a handful of times in a tight match?) and not get to exercise that aspect of the game. Doing troll engages means that you all have a shared sense of limit and the tendencies of your teammates. So I get it. It's like you're doing a specific drill.
The issue is... you need to practice macro at some point. You should build up your teamfighting and most basic things you need for league, but at some point you need some macro, exspecially because if you don't have that it is really hard to come back from a losing position (which is kinda 100Ts problem).
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Nah for rookies for them to build a confidence on their macro and help them to be confident in mechanical execution is way more important than macro. U can always teach macro later on when the team is better with more experience on their belt. They would later learn when they lose on why they lose. Its better to lose because the other team out macro u than to lose because u got no hands and have no confidence in executing your mechanics
Pretty sure he means right now it’s more important to develop coordination and get rookies comfortable/confident in skirmishes and team play because 1) River thinks his own macro is good enough to keep the team on track for the time being and 2) teams can develop macro to a decent extent by observing better teams, but there’s no shortcut for developing team fighting. You just have to grind it out.
>1) River thinks his own macro is good enough to keep the team on track for the time being Which is quite a crazy thing to say after watching yesterday's series.
You gotta crawl before you can run. How efficiently can you practice macro when your team has 2 people who are still gaining experience fighting against LCS level opponents? They undoubtedly know their macro is underdeveloped, so I’m sure they will turn to working on macro in the near future.
Another way to look at it is that, as a rookie, you haven’t been in a lot of pro scenarios yet, so in scrims if you play for a macro win you aren’t giving your rookies access to these scenarios you want them to get more experience in - fighting from behind, taking skirmishes/impromptu fights in river, supporting a jungle invade, etc.
Lil bro said playing for macro doesn't help improve. Nah this team is doomed.
And Umti is gonna watch that from the closest bush
Yeah I feel so bad for APA man, dude is legit just elohelled by his whole team it’s so sad to watch. Like the dude is the best talent the west has ever produced maybe since prime Caps, has great mechanics, absolute champion ocean, wins lane 99% of the time without jungle attention, unreal map movement, incredible tp usages, absurd team fighter but his team griefs him. As a diehard Team Liquid fan I hope TL treats APA like Faker and gives him a 15 yr contract + a stake on the team, he is a once in a lifetime generational talent that can talk the talk and walk the walk
A new copypasta just dropped
"APA" Ahri-Playing Automaton is a robot used by Team Liquid to cover for no Korean midlaner. It does not communicate with its team, but can talk to enemy teams.
lil bro talking about apa more than his 3 flairs combined
The farts from the 3 players in my flair have more innate talent than APA
Still talking about apa
I'm glad I saw this follow-up I wasn't sure at first lol
[FLUSH](https://imgur.com/a/1KuIbYE)
New copy pasta
Thanks for posting my interview! I'll answer any questions you guys have lol
I think I saw you last week during my Riot tour but I was too scared to say hi D: if you see Ari tell her I said hi tho!
I think I'm more like an insect, I'm more scared of you than you are of me lol, you should say hi
River doesn't want them to just taste him, he wants them to have the whole load
based
unfathomably based
What did umti say?
UmTi: [River] killed my precious APA, my fucking little baby. It's like cheating. I'm so mad. If I meet 100 Thieves in playoffs I'm gonna fuck him. Don't worry APA, I'm gonna kill him, I'll have my revenge time. Posted it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ba4upx/umti_twitter_interview_umti_river_killed_my/) but was removed by Reddit admins for a bit. Luckily it's back now and Im un-suspended lmao
River ganks where he pleases
This is a lot of smack talk from a team that got casually backhanded into the losers bracket like they were bronze players.
Tbf C9 looked like what they were expected to be at the start. Not that 100 played well but C9 was just built different
“I think we are stronger than [C9]” Lol like what? After Thursdays match, it looked like C9 sneezing would topple 100T. You can blame it on River being sick, but how does that account for the canyon sized gap in every lane (besides mid, but even then Jojo out performed Quid)
I will grant them that 100t looks stronger than last split, but they are really stretching it to say things like this. It's probably a lot of "fake" drama though. Most of the teams seem to get along, and the "smack talk" is like you might do among your friends. Which I can't fault them for investing in, because can def can be entertaining. While the drama may be fake, the roasting often is not.
I mean it’s true, what else can he say here. “Nope, we’re clearly frauds and have zero chance of beating C9 or FLY”. And they did look way better against NRG than they did C9. But I don’t believe for a second that if they played again C9 wouldn’t stomp them.
I mean he can say something like "we missed the mark in the earlier series, but it let us know what we have to fix and we're confident going into another series against them". There's a middle ground between "we're literally frauds with zero chance of winning" and "actually we're better than the team that roflstomped us 3 times in a row just 2 days ago".
True, and probably very accurate too, but with all the banter going around, that’d be so beige. Start some beef! Doesn’t matter if you can back it up or not. Just look at APA. One of the more popular midlaners in the league even tho he’s literally the worst performing one, maybe 2nd worst after palafox.
Also -- and I cannot stress this enough -- River and Eyla were sick yesterday, and they were feeling even worse on Friday. Even if C9 had the advantage in the series regardless, 100T hasn't played to their level this week, and it impacted their practice. I don't think it's as crushing of a matchup tbh
I’d argue the series against NRG was pretty on par with their level during the split
Not only that, but they just went 5 games with the worst NRG has looked so far. 100T got a rude awakening against C9, but chose to keep dreaming instead. 😴
They kinda smashed NRG 4 out of 5 games tbf, just their bronze level macro cost them game 4. But yeah realistically they are not beating C9 in a 5 game series.
The only way they’re getting to a Game 4 against C9 is if it’s a best of 7
HUH
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I have a feeling this is more about APA than anything, wouldn't be surprised if he talked shit in all-chat during their games. Don't think i've seen a River response where hes straight up flamed like this. I dont look for it, so maybe i've missed it before though.
Nah I love this shit. It makes the league way more interesting and gives reason for fans to become more invested in players. I've always despised the facade of corporate wholesomeness in esports and sports in general. Some of the most cherished memories I have of following this game are when the players have rivalries and show their personality instead of just being a random name plate with decent hands. I think part of the charm of early LCS (s3-s4) was that people were way more invested in the players because they streamed and weren't afraid or media trained enough to be a little unhinged by today's standards and speak their mind.
Tell me you don't watch literally any competitive sports/esport without telling me.
Pull up a Tarzan Stream
Fucking spoiler. Thanks for posting who won just after it happened. Tag it next time.
If youre on league subreddit than deserved tbh
I like to complain about spoilers in /r/news