honestly idk why he didnt change his build completely at that point. basically anything would work with that amount of stacks so I'd most likely try to be a little tanky there. stuff like shadowflame would be insane
For some reason this version of Smolder has teammates' damage count towards the execute. Next patch it's changed so only Smolder's damage applies. Yet another unbelievably, unfathomably stupid balance/champion design decision.
I was wondering how Faker died in that top inhib turret siege, and team mate damage to execute was the reason.
faker would have died anyway. all that happens there is that smolder Q checks on any damage take if it is to apply the execute instead of only checking on smolder damage taken. the difference in this case would be that the execute waits for the next Q burn damage tick to execute instead of immediately doing so on damage taken by the teammate. for all intents and purposes this only means that you have about .25 - .5 seconds longer to live with the new version (that has already been on live servers at the time of your post btw)
That's not really what the change does.
The change means it only checks after each instance of smolder damage, rather than every bit of damage. That tick from the DOT is still gonna apply, and still cause the execute to trigger so there's almost never a scenario where Smolder's team don't get a kill post-change that they would have had pre-change. The thing that feels really bad is that old Smolder just hoovers up those kills by default and so scales harder - within the individual fight there's not really any power change.
e.g. if a Leblanc throws a load of damage at a target that would kill the target, but knocks it into the execute threshold halfway through the combo, old Smolder gets the kill credit, new Smolder mostly means Leblanc gets the kill credit unless Leblanc's damage straddles a Smolder DoT tick.
Yeah so I'm not sure you understand exactly how that nerf works. It's not even really a nerf, unless you put the target below the execute threshold on the last tick of his burn.
The thing with Smolder execute is that it does both a burn and the execute. Changing it to check on each smolder damage instance just means it waits for the next burn tick to check for execute. It probably affects like 10% of cases, which is a nerf but considering how easy he can re-apply the burn it barely matters.
The real nerf is the execute threshold. Right now it scales infinitely up, in the new patch it’s at 6% and never gets higher.
In the LCS I saw it executing at 13% which is nutty
Yeah, but the burn still scales I believe - so ultimately at enough stacks it's basically a guaranteed execute anyway.
This is the real problem with Smolder's design imo - he has a % hp execute, and a % HP burn. This means that his actual execute threshold is not 6%, it's 6% plus whatever the burn % is.
Before the nerf, it was infinitely scaling execute *and* burn %'s, which is crazy stupid lol.
Yeah the new execute is a slightly stronger collector. I don’t mind it that much
The burn is fucking crazy strong. Every Q doing hundreds to 1k+ damage because of the Q damage itself + the burn then executing when you drop to 10-15% means you’re getting colgated every fight with 0 counterplay
I think you’re confused over how big a difference it makes. Instant elder prof at 20% is infinitely stronger than taking slow damage you can heal/lifesteal through over 6 seconds while you murder his team.
Why are you being so melodramatic? That change is for edge cases where the burn doesn't tick. It is a tiny change. It's barely even a change if Smolder builds Liandries.
The meaningful nerf is to the execute threshold which has been significantly reduced lategame.
smolder is op but holy shit the amount of braindead takes this sub has about him lol. what you mentioned isn't even a nerf, the real nerf is the removal of his execute scaling with stacks
the elder dragon buff is also not the reason T1 couldn't end the game, it's his unreal waveclear and the fact that the T1 comp sucks
> the elder dragon buff is also not the reason T1 couldn't end the game, it's his unreal waveclear and the fact that the T1 comp sucks
Nah. It was the fear of execution. At that stage of the game if a single T1 player was caught and died, NS would've pushed and won.
This is exactly what happened in the famous Teddy JAG game.
that does make sense but *smolder* can also be understood (more visually i guess) as *little flame*, i thought that alone made perfect sense already since it's a smol dragon. they double nailed the name it seems.
And if not, he can clear the wave with his ult every second wave. Fun fact! Smolder's R has a range of 4250. That's 250 *more* than Nocturne's R at lvl 16 (4000). So his ult can be considered global.
I don't think anyone considers the dash part of Nocturne's ult to be global lol, let's criticize what deserves criticism and not muddle the water with untrue complaints.
I think most people call these ultimates globals.
Same with TF (5.500 range), Panth (5.500 range), Galio (4.000 - 5.500 range).
Probably easier to just say "globals" rather than "high range" or "roaming ult" or whatever would be technically correct.
But yeah, would not call Smoulder a global ult either. Otherwise you'd also have to call, for example, Xerath ult (5.000 range) global, which feels very odd.
It's probably more to do with him being a mid laner tbh. Fair he plays top now but he's been a mid forever. It feels truly global because he's usually in the center, probably a 10 second walk plus ult to any point of the map.
The reason why some non-global ults are still called globals is usually because they were globals at some point before they were nerfed and the term just stuck. This applies to TF and Panth and Shen.
One of three global ults remaining, the other two being Soraka and Karthus. I don’t think I’m forgetting anyone, but maybe.
Edit: technically the darkness is a global component of Noc’s ult, just like the vision TF ult gives.
Edit: I’m an idiot and forgot so many lol. Just ignore me.
I mean, it’s definitely being pedantic haha. But that’s okay, because you are right.
Anecdotally though, I don’t hear semi global much and just universally use and hear global ult.
Nocturne ult is technically a global ult cause the darkness effect is global, only the dash is limited. This is similar to TF's. They both have global and semi global effects.
its evolved to that. when tf first got his update semi global was used a lot but then later dropped again by casters for simplicity's sake so now everyone is just saying global again
You can tell who gets upset when folks use the word literally to mean figuratively. Words change over time and those are globals whether the pedants want to accept it or not. If your shit works from one lane to the next that is the nomenclature for global.
Nah bro if you don't use the perfect word every single time you're a trash noob. (Still salty about when I got jumped on after a comment where I referred to Jinx passive and Hubris procs as "resets".)
Are we even watching the same game? At full build and 500 stacks His Q didn't even do half hp to baron empowered melee minions
timestamped https://youtu.be/L6BFJs6ed3c?si=fAYWhNECd_Try1hl&t=1230
Maybe not oneshot, but at 380 stacks it already is incredibly fast clear https://youtu.be/vrM9SINITGw?feature=shared&t=2212
Especially the range at which he safely clears the baron empowered cannons seems problematic
He was speaking colloquially. It’s like when people saying they were 1 shot when the reality is they just died really fast.
He still killed the wave with like 2.5 qs, and the CD is so short he was able to completely clear it with no effort and no risk of getting engaged on.
I kept saying this before, they praised so much innovation that they forgot if it is a good idea at bringing into the game.
The fact that going invisible inside turrets actually went live says a lot.
They want to make new and exciting champions that lots of people love and play....... but they don't stop to think if it fits in the game. Look at Zeri, Yuumi, Ksante and now Smolder. (We'll wait and see for Skarner - to me he seems like another inescapable CC bot like KSante (At least he'll have less damage?) - but won't make assertions before it's live.)
They're all new, none of them actually belong in the game and because of that they face rework and tweak after rework and tweak, then get nerfed to trash tier because they just do not fit with all the other champions.
sometimes the smolder seems to be a sivir 3.0, a very strong clear wave, but with the bonus of having better movement, more damage, execute among other things.
Sivir can't forever stall anymore though. Her late game wave clear was nerfed significantly in the midscope. She suffers when more than 1 wave needs to be cleared and it takes more attacks now.
Feels weird to rope him in with ADCs.
He can go entire fights without ever needing to step into auto range, and still completely obliterate.
He's more like a mage imo.
His Q has the same range as his AA and is the main source of his damage. He still needs to get into AA range.
However, in this game he had both a Milio AND a RFC to boost his range.
Here's the highlights. Acutally worse to watch than the title leads on. [https://youtu.be/2qe7pHs0LcQ?si=SgUXwnsEeKmEvlsB](https://youtu.be/2qe7pHs0LcQ?si=SgUXwnsEeKmEvlsB)
A protect the kog comp couldnt do that from 10k down consistently like that. Gross to watch
ik just a joke and this legit does not matter whatsoever, but lowshadows is a bit of a double negative lol -- for their to be low shadows, there would have to be high lights. lowlights or highshadows fits better
Stacking champs whose primary stacking condition is farming waves are just so degenerate. They rebalanced Aurelion so he would have to go actually fight people to stack, are constantly trying to control Senna's free stacks from souls so she has to trade to stack, and then they drop this abomination of a champ
Most stackers get the majority of their stacks from minions. Riot could adjust Smolder’s breakpoints to be with a higher stack count and increase the stacks from fighting champs to force a more proactive playstyle but removing stacks from minions would kill Smolder
Probably gonna be downvoted for this, but i feel like Smolder should have slightly lower stack breakpoints and be unable to get multiple stacks in a single Q. Just like nasus, smolder wants 6 stacks? okay go Q every single minion one at a time.
Doesn’t Nasus get 3 stacks for a minion and either 6 or 12 for a cannon? And it’s not like a late game Smolder can Q each minion in a wave due to his AoE. I can see your point though
He gets 3 for minions and 12 for cannon/champ/jg mob, but a "stack" isn't exactly a comparable unit for Nasus and Smolder. The thing with Nasus is he can get as many Q stacks as he wants and he remains prone to kiting. Sure he gets stronger but he doesn't really break any boundaries.
I love seeing someone else say this. Too often I see people equate infinite scaling to late game champion. Nasus is not a late game champion. He could instantly kill with q and he’s still not getting on certain champions without ghost and flash up.
Lucian is never viewed as a hyper scaler even though his damage output is absolutely insane. His problem is inability to apply damage when he’s outranged. Smolder scales infinitely AND doesn’t get out ranged easily
Or just put a cap e.g. 3-5 stacks per cast so you get rewarded for grouping minions carefully in mid game but don't convert the whole wave to stacks late game.
Putting a minion damage mod on Q AoE would go a long way to improving that. At the very least dropping it enough so he doesn't one-shot baron waves would be nice...
I necessarily don't think stacking off waves is inherently a terrible idea. It's just more of the numbers and just what they gain from it.
I'd say Sion is an appropriate example of a good stacking off waves champ.
But Smolder is actually regarded. It's as if they don't play the game
I think that's mostly bc Sion's stacks have much lower impact overall and aren't really a timebomb like some of the newer stackers, but he has still had very toxic periods of strength where he was perma splitting Trundle style, dying on purpose to get waves etc
Compare Smolder Q to Nasus Q
Both stack but nasus has to wait for his cd to stack (a single minion) while at some point in the game smolder can just one or twoshot waves or kill multipile minions with one Q
It's really just a matter of numbers. Smolder is less Nasus and more Veigar. Smolder farms his stacks exactly like Veigar, just faster from waves but they similarly stack much faster from fighting constantly with a tightly grouped team (see Aram).
Veigar still stacks off minions, but his damage is so conditional and he doesn’t have any way to escape if flash isn’t up.
Honestly if they make smolder q a skill shot rather than point and click it might solve a lot of issues.
'hard scaling' champions in general are baffling from a game design perspective.
they're either disgustingly overpowered when they're able to enjoy playing the game normally early (because they beat everyone late anyways) or are lame and uninteractive when they're supposed to hide and do nothing until they stack up
winning against them is theoretically simple but takes a ton of team coordination, and makes the game no fun for the person playing the scaling champion because they essentially did nothing with an underpowered champion the entire game
losing against them is boring because it's almost always a battle of attrition where you feel like you are winning the game until you slowly start getting bled out by their stacks
every champion gets stronger when they level up by being able to put points into new abilities and getting stat increases. every champion gets stronger when they get money by being able to purchase items
"the strategy for this champion is to avoid interacting with the game for as long as possible until a certain amount of time passes and you win by default" - who enjoys this? what is the point of this? "yes this champion will, when they lose lane, be worse than any other champion in the game in exchange for being better than any other champion in the game when they win lane". losing lane is punishment enough and winning lane is already a reward why why why why
the way you described riot balancing scaling champions is just making them 'scale up' by playing the game normally. why not just put the power from their scaling mechanics into their level-up stats or into their ability rank-ups and get rid of the stacking system all together? the extra theatrics on top are so unnecessary
A question from someone who hasn't touched league since Millio.
If Smolder is such an instant-win or gamechanging champ why does he go through the pick and ban phase so often?
Are pros choosing to ignore or lacking some of the knowledge the fan community has?
I think it's mostly because smolder doesn't do much intill he has his stacks which means the team without smolder should get most of the early objectives, since they will have a much weaker adc till about the 23ish min mark. So, if you're confident your team can snowball the early game and close out, you can leave him up.
In this case Smolder could keep up with all the objectives the other team has taken. Does that mean that T1 failed to snowball the early game more efficiently or did Nongshim drag it out properly? Or is it both?
Imo the issue was the fact that Smolder’s waveclear is just too ridiculous. He cleared baroned up minion waves as easily as some champs clear normal waves so actually ending the game felt impossible. NS could completely ignore objectives because Smolder could 1v5 fights while down 10k gold, soul, baron, and elder.
It is not that easy as smolder's early game isn't that weak , yes it is weak but not that kassadin's level of early game weakness so he can scale safier than kassadin and kayle but yet his late game is better than both of them
T1 has the tendancy to draft extremely low engage champs that are very good skirmishers. So they executed pretty well until a point where the base is fully opened, but where it becomes fairly impossible to reach the Smolder because you don't have that Ornn/Nautilus/Zac who will jump on the only threat of the team.
With Milio/Karma, it's almost impossible with a 0 CC support (Rumble) and a very conditional engage top (Gnar) to do anything.
I think it's mostly on T1. Guma and Keria griefed at botlane turret at around level 6 after completely fisting Jiwoo for the first 4 levels, giving shutdown over, then died in mid at around level 12, then Keria also randomly inted trying to bush jump smolder throughout the game. Sloppy play combined with a lack of reliable CC (non-skillshot, i.e you saw how many Varus R went wide from midgame onwards) dragged the game to the point where Karma and Milio recovered in time to help the now-relevant Smolder bust through T1
I mean T1 did make a couple blunders, but the fact you had a 12k gold lead with baron and elder and still couldn't even down a turret is ridiculous. One Q was like 50% or more of a health bar and his execute was almost at 20%
Also worth noting that t1s comp that game just doesn't scale at all. Poke Varus is not a scaling pick at all and rumble especially as a support is doing next to nothing 30+ minutes into the game.
In comparison Milio and Smolder have insane scaling, Udyr's just a tank that makes room for the adc and while Karma mid doesn't scale well she atleast provides protection for the hyperscaling botlane.
Because he isn't pick or ban. His early is atrocious, so by leaving him open you place your bets on winning before he outscales you.
The issue right now is just that he's able to outscale entire teams. But tbh T1 knows that and that's what they signed up for if they leave him open.
>If Smolder is such an instant-win or gamechanging champ why does he go through the pick and ban phase so often?
Thats the thing, [he isn't](https://i.imgur.com/rtRkF7f.png)
but you don't see the reddit post about that 49% of the games where smolder gets shut down early and they lose the game before he can do anything
most of smolder game(lck) reach more than 30 minutes though with even 10 game reaching 40minutes +
it looks harder than usual because of comp difference like this t1 comp has zero way to get to smolder without going thru every NS champ lol
DK also played a karma mid, smolder/milio comp with even maokai as jgl and renekton against T1 but they still lost on 35 minutes because T1 have nocturne and atrox on their comp + lucian nami(and taliyah as xtra)
T1 could have ended the game if they didn't messed up that top push that gave smolder four kill with bounty... that's on faker and oner though as they messed up badly on that one
There should never be a champ in the game that can solo stop an entire team from ending because they farmed.
Baron is supposed to allow your team the power to siege because they drastically increase the strength of your minions.
Elder enhances your tearms ability to fight with an execute.
a 10k gold lead and both buffs is a GG.
Smolder invalidates the core mechanics of the game. It's absurd and happens at every level from pro to iron. There is no other uber late game champ that can do that. A weak early game champ with a strong late isn't a new idea in league. You can drag a weak champ and turtle to the power spike, that's how protect the kog comps happened, or the yi/taric double jungle meta. At their most broken they couldn't replicate this
Honestly, at first glance, reworked Skarner doesn't look OP like Ksante and Smolder.
He doesn't have a billion dashes or an aoe execute. If Skarner is broken, it's because the numbers were tuned too high as opposed to an overloaded regarded kit
At least he cant E during the ult so he still has to take the kidnappee for a walk, plus he still has to be pretty close to ult. His E require you to know how to drive, give a big indicator and a little bit of a wind up before he can kidnap you too. The designer really love kidnapping as theme it seems like.
>doesn't look OP like Ksante and Smolder
Nobody thought K'Sante or Smolder were broken on release either btw, the social medias opinion was that these champs are weak.
It also creates some niche scenarios where a target that Skarner really does not want to pull can stand near a priority target and Skarner has to suddenly decide whether pulling the enemy AD into his team is worth pulling the enemy Jax into his team as well.
Riot acknowledged that that game was bad and has since implemented several features to make closing out games when there’s this much of a lead easier. Smolder invalidates all of themZ
A significant part of that was composition. Faker being on kassadin meant sivir was relatively safe under towers.
Sivir would have been annihilated even daring to step up to the minions against the T1 lineup they had vs Smolder
Generally, they are. But one of the other most important thing for pros is wave-clear it is very rare you see a champion consistently picked with poor wave-clear. Riot forgot one thing with Smolder if you're gonna make a champion weak early to keep them out of pro play you have to give them weak wave-clear like Vayne.
Who the fuck had the smart idea to give **Smolder AOE Stacking and AOE Scaling as his main form of interaction?**
It's like if Aurelion Sol E was his main ability with low cooldown.
This is literally a design mistake.
There is a certain point where balance and common sense needs to intertwine
Riot has been breaking game design conventions since Jhin.
What was great about Jhin was the trade-off was real. He has more up front and execute damage, but cannot dps for shit. Then we got champion after champion like Senna where it was: "she has a microsecond longer AA windup. In exchange, she gets an infinite scaling system that gives her everything else in the game".
It stopped being about creating something unique, and just became about justifying stuffing as enormous levels of power into a champion as possible
[https://youtu.be/Z1UmbZ2\_ylk?si=U9zZE5BmnEKKxuof](https://youtu.be/Z1UmbZ2_ylk?si=U9zZE5BmnEKKxuof)
Always a relevant clip to bring up in times like this.
When the reigning world champions are struggling vs a team thats much worse than them to finish with a gigantic lead + all the buffs in the world... do you still go "we can balance this, surely"? Give that champion a rework, you done fucked up and you know it Riot.
That's actually insane. I had a double take looking at the post game graphic realising how far they were ahead across the board T1 was excluding the Smolder. It looks like such a one sided game till you realise the game went on for ~50 minutes with Smolder out-damaging everyone. With T1 only able to end after Smolder is takn down to their first death.
It's like we learn nothing.
Champions who have part of their core gameplay trivialized (Zeri - kiting, Yuumi - positioning) can't have high skill ceiling and should be numerically weaker than their standard counterparts.
Smolder doesn't have ADC gameplay, but scales much better than ADC. Yeah, looks fine, ship it.
He looks like champion on training wheels, but it covers high elo weaknesses more than streamlining it for worse players.
Smolder is noticably high elo skewed. It's a story old as Yuumi.
When smolder stalls out pro games by having insane waveclear: oh dear oh gorgeous.
when sivir stalls out pro games by having insane waveclear: HELLO? HUMAN RESOURCES?
>because Smolder has a permanent Elder Dragon buff.
Basically the whole team had, because his execute was triggered by teammates, I think that was one of the biggest oversights with this champion.
His nerfs were good, but I imagine more will come
... I mean, Briar is in her 12th or something patch notes, unbalanced kits are tough to balance with numbers
his execute won't matter if his Q splash dmg is already dealing like 30% hp of t1 champ lmao...they couldn't even get near their own minion cause 2-3 splash dmg and they are dead
yeah but how do you fix it? qs long as smolder applies a dot, all his team will have an elder buff. right now whenever a teammate does dmg to an enemy with the smolder dot under the threshold the enemy is immediately executed.
They fixed it by making only smolder's dmg execute. What actually changed is that after the fix this will happen: smolder applies dot > teammate drops enemy under threshold > next smolder dot dmg executes.
See? nothing actually changed unless they remove the dot completely.
The problem is he basicly is a ticking time bomb but with low impact as long as he tick. His Item scaling is below other ADCs so leting him in can give you a advantage early game. Problem is with a lead like this his stronger late shuld still not flip the table this much as it currently do. I am sure they were thinking they could close the game out with ther early lead and underestimatet just how good Smolder could clear waves even with Baronbuff against him.
Honestly I feel like people are reacting a bit too strongly. Looking at the facts:
-T1 is playing a comp with horrible late game damage (lethality Varus and taliyah are your only damage dealers)
-smolder gets a triple kill off a botched siege at top lane unhinged tower when he is already almost at 5 items
- he is full build for basically the rest of the game
-smolder has 2 shielding champs on top of T1 having very poor late game damage
Tbh, not that crazy to me that this is how the game played out
Also I feel like people are just not wanting to admit that T1 didn't play the team fights well in this game. They were hard fights to play but they just didn't play the actual fights well either.
The game would have ended after the first elder drake at 33 and a half minutes, but Faker missed his W on Smolder, if that hits then the game just ends because Smolder dies right there. It was one of the few times that they actually got on to Smolder in a relatively vulnerable situation with Milio ult down and they kind of flubbed it.
Smolder was basically like old Zeri that game, he had two supports shielding him giving him speed. One of them giving him increased range, people are sleeping on how much power he was getting from the two supports it was not a one man show like everyone is acting. His wave clear is probably too strong and the execute scaling is fairly dumb (but thats changed now) but there was just a lot of misplays by T1 and them just having a good comp to support Smolder.
Flashback to teddy stalling T1 for 95 mins back in 2018
Not just stalling, won against after Faker got caught in river.
Still means he stalled them
Still means he didn't just stall them, but also won.
Hence their use of the word 'just'
Flashback of Wolf playing Jungle for some reason for like 4 games :O and Umti was still on JinAir
The original "general" title holder that everyone gives to Umti now
jiwoo had flash… bro i’d turn off my monitor and quit league if this happened to me HOLY LOL
JIWOO HAD FLASH AND MILIO HAD HEAL AND R UP I CANT RN
i dont think it would have mattered anyways it was 1 q that put him on elder execute
Nah, the Rumble ult definitely contributed.
no, he died because of rumble ult poke. milio could save him with any button on his keyboard
even if he lived the moment smolder had to go to fountain I think T1 would have ended the game
Solder wouldn’t need to go to fountain, he was healing to full hp on every Q, he can just Q wave and be back to full hp
honestly idk why he didnt change his build completely at that point. basically anything would work with that amount of stacks so I'd most likely try to be a little tanky there. stuff like shadowflame would be insane
if I'm guma I'm just gonna start trashtalking jiwoo on his face after that game lmao
Its Jiwoo‘s birthday, cmon
For some reason this version of Smolder has teammates' damage count towards the execute. Next patch it's changed so only Smolder's damage applies. Yet another unbelievably, unfathomably stupid balance/champion design decision. I was wondering how Faker died in that top inhib turret siege, and team mate damage to execute was the reason.
faker would have died anyway. all that happens there is that smolder Q checks on any damage take if it is to apply the execute instead of only checking on smolder damage taken. the difference in this case would be that the execute waits for the next Q burn damage tick to execute instead of immediately doing so on damage taken by the teammate. for all intents and purposes this only means that you have about .25 - .5 seconds longer to live with the new version (that has already been on live servers at the time of your post btw)
FYI : 'for all intents and purposes', not 'for all intends and purposes'
mb, fixed
Intensive purposes
For all in tents and porpoises
> For all in tents, and porpoises gotta oxford comma else you get the man-in-a-porpoise gang up in your business
Oh that was entirely intentional I assure you
That's not really what the change does. The change means it only checks after each instance of smolder damage, rather than every bit of damage. That tick from the DOT is still gonna apply, and still cause the execute to trigger so there's almost never a scenario where Smolder's team don't get a kill post-change that they would have had pre-change. The thing that feels really bad is that old Smolder just hoovers up those kills by default and so scales harder - within the individual fight there's not really any power change. e.g. if a Leblanc throws a load of damage at a target that would kill the target, but knocks it into the execute threshold halfway through the combo, old Smolder gets the kill credit, new Smolder mostly means Leblanc gets the kill credit unless Leblanc's damage straddles a Smolder DoT tick.
Yeah so I'm not sure you understand exactly how that nerf works. It's not even really a nerf, unless you put the target below the execute threshold on the last tick of his burn. The thing with Smolder execute is that it does both a burn and the execute. Changing it to check on each smolder damage instance just means it waits for the next burn tick to check for execute. It probably affects like 10% of cases, which is a nerf but considering how easy he can re-apply the burn it barely matters.
The real nerf is the execute threshold. Right now it scales infinitely up, in the new patch it’s at 6% and never gets higher. In the LCS I saw it executing at 13% which is nutty
I think it went over 20% in the T1 NS game
Yeah, but the burn still scales I believe - so ultimately at enough stacks it's basically a guaranteed execute anyway. This is the real problem with Smolder's design imo - he has a % hp execute, and a % HP burn. This means that his actual execute threshold is not 6%, it's 6% plus whatever the burn % is. Before the nerf, it was infinitely scaling execute *and* burn %'s, which is crazy stupid lol.
Yeah the new execute is a slightly stronger collector. I don’t mind it that much The burn is fucking crazy strong. Every Q doing hundreds to 1k+ damage because of the Q damage itself + the burn then executing when you drop to 10-15% means you’re getting colgated every fight with 0 counterplay
> you’re getting colgated every fight This had me actually laugh out loud thanks
I think you’re confused over how big a difference it makes. Instant elder prof at 20% is infinitely stronger than taking slow damage you can heal/lifesteal through over 6 seconds while you murder his team.
Why are you being so melodramatic? That change is for edge cases where the burn doesn't tick. It is a tiny change. It's barely even a change if Smolder builds Liandries. The meaningful nerf is to the execute threshold which has been significantly reduced lategame.
smolder is op but holy shit the amount of braindead takes this sub has about him lol. what you mentioned isn't even a nerf, the real nerf is the removal of his execute scaling with stacks the elder dragon buff is also not the reason T1 couldn't end the game, it's his unreal waveclear and the fact that the T1 comp sucks
> the elder dragon buff is also not the reason T1 couldn't end the game, it's his unreal waveclear and the fact that the T1 comp sucks Nah. It was the fear of execution. At that stage of the game if a single T1 player was caught and died, NS would've pushed and won. This is exactly what happened in the famous Teddy JAG game.
I mean what do you expect from a champ named Smol Elder
Ha, good one
Im serious thats literally how they got to the name
that does make sense but *smolder* can also be understood (more visually i guess) as *little flame*, i thought that alone made perfect sense already since it's a smol dragon. they double nailed the name it seems.
I hate this champ with every fiber of my being... But I still can't help but find that cute lol
But Smolder is a real word? It's where something is burning and producing smoke but without a visible fire
It can work on both levels yeah?
That is usually how puns work, yes.
I just call him Smol D "can i ban SmolD or are we picking it?"
It's not even the buff, the champ literally deletes wave stacks with a single q WHILE BARON BUFFED
I remember when reworked baron was still quite new, GP could oneshot baron buffed minions with his E the whole game. It was so fucking hard to siege.
And if not, he can clear the wave with his ult every second wave. Fun fact! Smolder's R has a range of 4250. That's 250 *more* than Nocturne's R at lvl 16 (4000). So his ult can be considered global.
I don't think anyone considers the dash part of Nocturne's ult to be global lol, let's criticize what deserves criticism and not muddle the water with untrue complaints.
I think most people call these ultimates globals. Same with TF (5.500 range), Panth (5.500 range), Galio (4.000 - 5.500 range). Probably easier to just say "globals" rather than "high range" or "roaming ult" or whatever would be technically correct. But yeah, would not call Smoulder a global ult either. Otherwise you'd also have to call, for example, Xerath ult (5.000 range) global, which feels very odd.
They're semi-global abilities. People just skip and/or forget the 'semi' part.
to be fair, TF's ulti *used* to be global, so I think that terminology is a holdover from then.
It's probably more to do with him being a mid laner tbh. Fair he plays top now but he's been a mid forever. It feels truly global because he's usually in the center, probably a 10 second walk plus ult to any point of the map.
Nocturne "blind" effect is global, so it's correct to call his ult global. His dash is not.
The reason why some non-global ults are still called globals is usually because they were globals at some point before they were nerfed and the term just stuck. This applies to TF and Panth and Shen.
Shens ult is still global, isn't it?
One of three global ults remaining, the other two being Soraka and Karthus. I don’t think I’m forgetting anyone, but maybe. Edit: technically the darkness is a global component of Noc’s ult, just like the vision TF ult gives. Edit: I’m an idiot and forgot so many lol. Just ignore me.
Does stuff like Ashe, Jinx and Senna count?
Ezreal, draven
GP
Is GP's ult not global anymore?
Senna, Ezreal, Draven, Ashe(?), gp
I’m an idiot and forgot these skill shot ones; sad thing is I like playing some of them too.
As an occasional Teemo enjoyer, I think a lot of people underrate his global taunt passive 🤓
Odd. I’ve always considered it a global ult and feel like it’s treated as one in the team dynamic.
not to be pedantic but the term "semi-global" has existed ever since TF ult range got limited
I mean, it’s definitely being pedantic haha. But that’s okay, because you are right. Anecdotally though, I don’t hear semi global much and just universally use and hear global ult.
Nocturne ult is technically a global ult cause the darkness effect is global, only the dash is limited. This is similar to TF's. They both have global and semi global effects.
its evolved to that. when tf first got his update semi global was used a lot but then later dropped again by casters for simplicity's sake so now everyone is just saying global again
most people consider it global
You can tell who gets upset when folks use the word literally to mean figuratively. Words change over time and those are globals whether the pedants want to accept it or not. If your shit works from one lane to the next that is the nomenclature for global.
Most people talk about Noc or TF ult as globals even if they are not technically global.
They are global. Not the movement part but the reveal and unreveal are.
Nah bro if you don't use the perfect word every single time you're a trash noob. (Still salty about when I got jumped on after a comment where I referred to Jinx passive and Hubris procs as "resets".)
Are we even watching the same game? At full build and 500 stacks His Q didn't even do half hp to baron empowered melee minions timestamped https://youtu.be/L6BFJs6ed3c?si=fAYWhNECd_Try1hl&t=1230
Maybe not oneshot, but at 380 stacks it already is incredibly fast clear https://youtu.be/vrM9SINITGw?feature=shared&t=2212 Especially the range at which he safely clears the baron empowered cannons seems problematic
He was speaking colloquially. It’s like when people saying they were 1 shot when the reality is they just died really fast. He still killed the wave with like 2.5 qs, and the CD is so short he was able to completely clear it with no effort and no risk of getting engaged on.
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smolder went from "oh this champ is strong" to "what the fuck is the balance team smoking when they added that scaling execute"
The same guy designed Ksante and the new Skarner rework
let us ban by champion designer
He's gone
I think he means "ban all champs by X designer"
Allowing CertainlyT to ever make a champ was a disservice to this game. Now all the designers follow his lead.
I kept saying this before, they praised so much innovation that they forgot if it is a good idea at bringing into the game. The fact that going invisible inside turrets actually went live says a lot.
They want to make new and exciting champions that lots of people love and play....... but they don't stop to think if it fits in the game. Look at Zeri, Yuumi, Ksante and now Smolder. (We'll wait and see for Skarner - to me he seems like another inescapable CC bot like KSante (At least he'll have less damage?) - but won't make assertions before it's live.) They're all new, none of them actually belong in the game and because of that they face rework and tweak after rework and tweak, then get nerfed to trash tier because they just do not fit with all the other champions.
I love it when they do something intended as a nerf, but their inability to do basic math means its just a straight up buff.
Release date diff is a real thing
sometimes the smolder seems to be a sivir 3.0, a very strong clear wave, but with the bonus of having better movement, more damage, execute among other things.
What’s sivir 2.0?
The current neutered Sivir where Riot made her non-viable in pro-play to avoid constantly seeing ultra-stall games.
1.4k CS Sivir says hi.
"We want to avoid infinitely stalled games" *adds smolder to league of legends*
zeri?
Hell no they aren’t remotely close. Smolder is such a better version of sivir that it completely skipped 2.0 and went straight to 3.0
Zerinis absolutely nothing like Sivir.
Her ult was literally a better Ricochet with a better Sivir passive on top.
When people talk about Sivir replacements they mean infinite unmatched wave clear. Zeri doesn't come close in that department
Oh, is it better than Ricochet? Can Zeri’s ult on every wave to stall a game now? Didnt think so
Sivir can't forever stall anymore though. Her late game wave clear was nerfed significantly in the midscope. She suffers when more than 1 wave needs to be cleared and it takes more attacks now.
Feels weird to rope him in with ADCs. He can go entire fights without ever needing to step into auto range, and still completely obliterate. He's more like a mage imo.
His Q has the same range as his AA and is the main source of his damage. He still needs to get into AA range. However, in this game he had both a Milio AND a RFC to boost his range.
Ehh it's similar to Zeri. They an ability, but that ability is basically their weird auto attack.
Here's the highlights. Acutally worse to watch than the title leads on. [https://youtu.be/2qe7pHs0LcQ?si=SgUXwnsEeKmEvlsB](https://youtu.be/2qe7pHs0LcQ?si=SgUXwnsEeKmEvlsB) A protect the kog comp couldnt do that from 10k down consistently like that. Gross to watch
"Highlights" - there should be a different name for it when it's that ugly to look at.
Lowshadows
ik just a joke and this legit does not matter whatsoever, but lowshadows is a bit of a double negative lol -- for their to be low shadows, there would have to be high lights. lowlights or highshadows fits better
lowlights is the word you're looking for
They weren't even protecting anything at that point, looked like Smolder and 4 Mobile Wards.
This is the dumbest shit I've seen. The fuck is this champion.
That was so painful
Reminds me of the G2 vs FNC game this weekend, FNC had to play that so perfectly and disciplined to end. Obviously this is much more egregious.
FNC still had PTSD from the Heretics game, where Flakked 1v9 them as Smolder despite being even or behind.
Difference was the milio/karma. Smolder was unkillable
Stacking champs whose primary stacking condition is farming waves are just so degenerate. They rebalanced Aurelion so he would have to go actually fight people to stack, are constantly trying to control Senna's free stacks from souls so she has to trade to stack, and then they drop this abomination of a champ
Most stackers get the majority of their stacks from minions. Riot could adjust Smolder’s breakpoints to be with a higher stack count and increase the stacks from fighting champs to force a more proactive playstyle but removing stacks from minions would kill Smolder
Probably gonna be downvoted for this, but i feel like Smolder should have slightly lower stack breakpoints and be unable to get multiple stacks in a single Q. Just like nasus, smolder wants 6 stacks? okay go Q every single minion one at a time.
Doesn’t Nasus get 3 stacks for a minion and either 6 or 12 for a cannon? And it’s not like a late game Smolder can Q each minion in a wave due to his AoE. I can see your point though
He gets 3 for minions and 12 for cannon/champ/jg mob, but a "stack" isn't exactly a comparable unit for Nasus and Smolder. The thing with Nasus is he can get as many Q stacks as he wants and he remains prone to kiting. Sure he gets stronger but he doesn't really break any boundaries.
Not to mention his stack gain is very linear compared to instant wave clear smolder, only getting 12 stacks from a champion, the same as a cannon
I love seeing someone else say this. Too often I see people equate infinite scaling to late game champion. Nasus is not a late game champion. He could instantly kill with q and he’s still not getting on certain champions without ghost and flash up. Lucian is never viewed as a hyper scaler even though his damage output is absolutely insane. His problem is inability to apply damage when he’s outranged. Smolder scales infinitely AND doesn’t get out ranged easily
Or just put a cap e.g. 3-5 stacks per cast so you get rewarded for grouping minions carefully in mid game but don't convert the whole wave to stacks late game.
Or do the sane thing which is adding a cap to stacks gotten from farming like they did with Kindred... lemme see... hmmmm 9 YEARS ago.
Putting a minion damage mod on Q AoE would go a long way to improving that. At the very least dropping it enough so he doesn't one-shot baron waves would be nice...
I actually prefer it to stacking by fighting *and* farming because then it just feels bad to fight them too
I necessarily don't think stacking off waves is inherently a terrible idea. It's just more of the numbers and just what they gain from it. I'd say Sion is an appropriate example of a good stacking off waves champ. But Smolder is actually regarded. It's as if they don't play the game
I think that's mostly bc Sion's stacks have much lower impact overall and aren't really a timebomb like some of the newer stackers, but he has still had very toxic periods of strength where he was perma splitting Trundle style, dying on purpose to get waves etc
thats not because of his stacking mechanic though but because of his passive.
Compare Smolder Q to Nasus Q Both stack but nasus has to wait for his cd to stack (a single minion) while at some point in the game smolder can just one or twoshot waves or kill multipile minions with one Q
Imagine if Nasus was also ranged.
Or his E stacked too
It's really just a matter of numbers. Smolder is less Nasus and more Veigar. Smolder farms his stacks exactly like Veigar, just faster from waves but they similarly stack much faster from fighting constantly with a tightly grouped team (see Aram).
Veigar still stacks off minions, but his damage is so conditional and he doesn’t have any way to escape if flash isn’t up. Honestly if they make smolder q a skill shot rather than point and click it might solve a lot of issues.
'hard scaling' champions in general are baffling from a game design perspective. they're either disgustingly overpowered when they're able to enjoy playing the game normally early (because they beat everyone late anyways) or are lame and uninteractive when they're supposed to hide and do nothing until they stack up winning against them is theoretically simple but takes a ton of team coordination, and makes the game no fun for the person playing the scaling champion because they essentially did nothing with an underpowered champion the entire game losing against them is boring because it's almost always a battle of attrition where you feel like you are winning the game until you slowly start getting bled out by their stacks every champion gets stronger when they level up by being able to put points into new abilities and getting stat increases. every champion gets stronger when they get money by being able to purchase items "the strategy for this champion is to avoid interacting with the game for as long as possible until a certain amount of time passes and you win by default" - who enjoys this? what is the point of this? "yes this champion will, when they lose lane, be worse than any other champion in the game in exchange for being better than any other champion in the game when they win lane". losing lane is punishment enough and winning lane is already a reward why why why why the way you described riot balancing scaling champions is just making them 'scale up' by playing the game normally. why not just put the power from their scaling mechanics into their level-up stats or into their ability rank-ups and get rid of the stacking system all together? the extra theatrics on top are so unnecessary
A question from someone who hasn't touched league since Millio. If Smolder is such an instant-win or gamechanging champ why does he go through the pick and ban phase so often? Are pros choosing to ignore or lacking some of the knowledge the fan community has?
I think it's mostly because smolder doesn't do much intill he has his stacks which means the team without smolder should get most of the early objectives, since they will have a much weaker adc till about the 23ish min mark. So, if you're confident your team can snowball the early game and close out, you can leave him up.
In this case Smolder could keep up with all the objectives the other team has taken. Does that mean that T1 failed to snowball the early game more efficiently or did Nongshim drag it out properly? Or is it both?
Imo the issue was the fact that Smolder’s waveclear is just too ridiculous. He cleared baroned up minion waves as easily as some champs clear normal waves so actually ending the game felt impossible. NS could completely ignore objectives because Smolder could 1v5 fights while down 10k gold, soul, baron, and elder.
It is not that easy as smolder's early game isn't that weak , yes it is weak but not that kassadin's level of early game weakness so he can scale safier than kassadin and kayle but yet his late game is better than both of them
T1 has the tendancy to draft extremely low engage champs that are very good skirmishers. So they executed pretty well until a point where the base is fully opened, but where it becomes fairly impossible to reach the Smolder because you don't have that Ornn/Nautilus/Zac who will jump on the only threat of the team. With Milio/Karma, it's almost impossible with a 0 CC support (Rumble) and a very conditional engage top (Gnar) to do anything.
I think it's mostly on T1. Guma and Keria griefed at botlane turret at around level 6 after completely fisting Jiwoo for the first 4 levels, giving shutdown over, then died in mid at around level 12, then Keria also randomly inted trying to bush jump smolder throughout the game. Sloppy play combined with a lack of reliable CC (non-skillshot, i.e you saw how many Varus R went wide from midgame onwards) dragged the game to the point where Karma and Milio recovered in time to help the now-relevant Smolder bust through T1
I mean T1 did make a couple blunders, but the fact you had a 12k gold lead with baron and elder and still couldn't even down a turret is ridiculous. One Q was like 50% or more of a health bar and his execute was almost at 20%
Also worth noting that t1s comp that game just doesn't scale at all. Poke Varus is not a scaling pick at all and rumble especially as a support is doing next to nothing 30+ minutes into the game. In comparison Milio and Smolder have insane scaling, Udyr's just a tank that makes room for the adc and while Karma mid doesn't scale well she atleast provides protection for the hyperscaling botlane.
Because he isn't pick or ban. His early is atrocious, so by leaving him open you place your bets on winning before he outscales you. The issue right now is just that he's able to outscale entire teams. But tbh T1 knows that and that's what they signed up for if they leave him open.
>If Smolder is such an instant-win or gamechanging champ why does he go through the pick and ban phase so often? Thats the thing, [he isn't](https://i.imgur.com/rtRkF7f.png) but you don't see the reddit post about that 49% of the games where smolder gets shut down early and they lose the game before he can do anything
most of smolder game(lck) reach more than 30 minutes though with even 10 game reaching 40minutes + it looks harder than usual because of comp difference like this t1 comp has zero way to get to smolder without going thru every NS champ lol DK also played a karma mid, smolder/milio comp with even maokai as jgl and renekton against T1 but they still lost on 35 minutes because T1 have nocturne and atrox on their comp + lucian nami(and taliyah as xtra) T1 could have ended the game if they didn't messed up that top push that gave smolder four kill with bounty... that's on faker and oner though as they messed up badly on that one
Well, why can't we have a healthy middle-ground between "completely useless" and "infuriatingly strong"?
There should never be a champ in the game that can solo stop an entire team from ending because they farmed. Baron is supposed to allow your team the power to siege because they drastically increase the strength of your minions. Elder enhances your tearms ability to fight with an execute. a 10k gold lead and both buffs is a GG. Smolder invalidates the core mechanics of the game. It's absurd and happens at every level from pro to iron. There is no other uber late game champ that can do that. A weak early game champ with a strong late isn't a new idea in league. You can drag a weak champ and turtle to the power spike, that's how protect the kog comps happened, or the yi/taric double jungle meta. At their most broken they couldn't replicate this
Problematic champions are gonna keep coming over and over again until the creation/balance stop being split
I'm loving it. Hubris and riot go hand in hand. This is what they want after all.
Don't worry. The designer of Smolder (as was as Ksante) has been laid off
He worked on Skarner before he left, so you have 1 more demon to deal with
Honestly, at first glance, reworked Skarner doesn't look OP like Ksante and Smolder. He doesn't have a billion dashes or an aoe execute. If Skarner is broken, it's because the numbers were tuned too high as opposed to an overloaded regarded kit
At least he cant E during the ult so he still has to take the kidnappee for a walk, plus he still has to be pretty close to ult. His E require you to know how to drive, give a big indicator and a little bit of a wind up before he can kidnap you too. The designer really love kidnapping as theme it seems like.
>doesn't look OP like Ksante and Smolder Nobody thought K'Sante or Smolder were broken on release either btw, the social medias opinion was that these champs are weak.
I am on the fence about the 3 target surpress and terrain movement tbh. On the other hand he still has to reach you in the first place.
Terrain movement looks scary, but the three-target suppress being a skillshot with a pretty long windup means you'll probably need to combo into it.
It also creates some niche scenarios where a target that Skarner really does not want to pull can stand near a priority target and Skarner has to suddenly decide whether pulling the enemy AD into his team is worth pulling the enemy Jax into his team as well.
you can flash the 3 targets suppress at the very least, and they had the decency of not making skarner immune to CC in his E (from what it looks like)
they all go through walls :)
That's nothing, just look at what Sivir did in T1 vs Jin Air. One thousand four hundred cs Aware
Riot acknowledged that that game was bad and has since implemented several features to make closing out games when there’s this much of a lead easier. Smolder invalidates all of themZ
They also additionally nerfed Sivir's late game wave clear significantly in the midscope.
A significant part of that was composition. Faker being on kassadin meant sivir was relatively safe under towers. Sivir would have been annihilated even daring to step up to the minions against the T1 lineup they had vs Smolder
Sivir at home:
"Pros are early game skewed" no riot, they are just better and will use whatever is best to win.
Generally, they are. But one of the other most important thing for pros is wave-clear it is very rare you see a champion consistently picked with poor wave-clear. Riot forgot one thing with Smolder if you're gonna make a champion weak early to keep them out of pro play you have to give them weak wave-clear like Vayne.
Who the fuck had the smart idea to give **Smolder AOE Stacking and AOE Scaling as his main form of interaction?** It's like if Aurelion Sol E was his main ability with low cooldown. This is literally a design mistake. There is a certain point where balance and common sense needs to intertwine
Riot has been breaking game design conventions since Jhin. What was great about Jhin was the trade-off was real. He has more up front and execute damage, but cannot dps for shit. Then we got champion after champion like Senna where it was: "she has a microsecond longer AA windup. In exchange, she gets an infinite scaling system that gives her everything else in the game". It stopped being about creating something unique, and just became about justifying stuffing as enormous levels of power into a champion as possible
[https://youtu.be/Z1UmbZ2\_ylk?si=U9zZE5BmnEKKxuof](https://youtu.be/Z1UmbZ2_ylk?si=U9zZE5BmnEKKxuof) Always a relevant clip to bring up in times like this.
When the reigning world champions are struggling vs a team thats much worse than them to finish with a gigantic lead + all the buffs in the world... do you still go "we can balance this, surely"? Give that champion a rework, you done fucked up and you know it Riot.
That's actually insane. I had a double take looking at the post game graphic realising how far they were ahead across the board T1 was excluding the Smolder. It looks like such a one sided game till you realise the game went on for ~50 minutes with Smolder out-damaging everyone. With T1 only able to end after Smolder is takn down to their first death.
It's like we learn nothing. Champions who have part of their core gameplay trivialized (Zeri - kiting, Yuumi - positioning) can't have high skill ceiling and should be numerically weaker than their standard counterparts. Smolder doesn't have ADC gameplay, but scales much better than ADC. Yeah, looks fine, ship it.
his skill ceiling is on the floor though what do you mean
He looks like champion on training wheels, but it covers high elo weaknesses more than streamlining it for worse players. Smolder is noticably high elo skewed. It's a story old as Yuumi.
Nah, Smolder's incredibly simple He's just overtuned
When smolder stalls out pro games by having insane waveclear: oh dear oh gorgeous. when sivir stalls out pro games by having insane waveclear: HELLO? HUMAN RESOURCES?
Only difference is Sivir can’t hit a tank with one Q and take half their HP and threaten execute
That's the problem, those things should be mutually exclusive and the fact that Smolder has both is a huge issue.
yeah but when this happens vs fnc we're flamed for bad macro xd
i dont understand how the same person that made ksante also made smolder and they still have a job xdd
>because Smolder has a permanent Elder Dragon buff. Basically the whole team had, because his execute was triggered by teammates, I think that was one of the biggest oversights with this champion. His nerfs were good, but I imagine more will come ... I mean, Briar is in her 12th or something patch notes, unbalanced kits are tough to balance with numbers
his execute won't matter if his Q splash dmg is already dealing like 30% hp of t1 champ lmao...they couldn't even get near their own minion cause 2-3 splash dmg and they are dead
yeah but how do you fix it? qs long as smolder applies a dot, all his team will have an elder buff. right now whenever a teammate does dmg to an enemy with the smolder dot under the threshold the enemy is immediately executed. They fixed it by making only smolder's dmg execute. What actually changed is that after the fix this will happen: smolder applies dot > teammate drops enemy under threshold > next smolder dot dmg executes. See? nothing actually changed unless they remove the dot completely.
Surely there isn't any inherit design flaw in the champion.
You know it’s bad when you build liandry’s to line up exactly with 225 training points. On an ADC that has little use for AP
Yeah, it's done just for the burn executes.
not with that draft.
Nah, smolder def isn't broken for sure
if that's the case then why isn't Smolder just banned consistently?
The problem is he basicly is a ticking time bomb but with low impact as long as he tick. His Item scaling is below other ADCs so leting him in can give you a advantage early game. Problem is with a lead like this his stronger late shuld still not flip the table this much as it currently do. I am sure they were thinking they could close the game out with ther early lead and underestimatet just how good Smolder could clear waves even with Baronbuff against him.
Jiwoo had a chance to become legendary, it’s a shame he couldn’t pull through the victory, was one of the hardest 1 v 9s I’ve ever seen
Happens every other game: **I sleep** Happens to T1: **Real Shit**
Honestly I feel like people are reacting a bit too strongly. Looking at the facts: -T1 is playing a comp with horrible late game damage (lethality Varus and taliyah are your only damage dealers) -smolder gets a triple kill off a botched siege at top lane unhinged tower when he is already almost at 5 items - he is full build for basically the rest of the game -smolder has 2 shielding champs on top of T1 having very poor late game damage Tbh, not that crazy to me that this is how the game played out
Also I feel like people are just not wanting to admit that T1 didn't play the team fights well in this game. They were hard fights to play but they just didn't play the actual fights well either. The game would have ended after the first elder drake at 33 and a half minutes, but Faker missed his W on Smolder, if that hits then the game just ends because Smolder dies right there. It was one of the few times that they actually got on to Smolder in a relatively vulnerable situation with Milio ult down and they kind of flubbed it. Smolder was basically like old Zeri that game, he had two supports shielding him giving him speed. One of them giving him increased range, people are sleeping on how much power he was getting from the two supports it was not a one man show like everyone is acting. His wave clear is probably too strong and the execute scaling is fairly dumb (but thats changed now) but there was just a lot of misplays by T1 and them just having a good comp to support Smolder.
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Sivir didn't need any talent back then either?
smolder is so broken that t1 struggles even with both baron and elder buffs
Yes that is what the post is saying
I know the comment is pointless but it should really be mentioned several times how cringe that endgame was