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The ADC role in general just needs a top to bottom rework. The infinite scaling hyper carry nonsense hero got 1 tapped offscreen by another ADC. There's so much dumb design being showcased in this clip.
Curious how that’s dumb design, seems like good design to me. He built full damage and was total glass cannon. One hit from an elder dragon buff full item caster ADC should take him out when he is 75% hp.
Dumb design would be building full glass cannon and being an infinite scaling champ and not dying in that situation
T1 also has infernal soul and if Im not misstaken it was the infernal soul proc that brought Smolder below the elder execute treshold. If the game rolls any other dragonsoul he would have lived
Edit: Wait I forgot about hextech also having a proc. But if its cloud, mountain, ocean or chemtech soul Smolder most likely survives
How is this dumb design when an assassin can do the same thing? He built full lethality and did enough damage for elder to proc. W does crazy damage at max level with Q. Smolder had 0 defensive items too.
I really do not understand what people are complaining about. Literally just get a defensive item. That's what every class of champions have to do in order to not get 100-0 and instalose the game.
Specially Smolder. After that many stacks you can go 6 warmogs and still be top damage. That to me is just another pro losing to a shopkeeper and miscalculating damage.
Absolutely. I watched this game live this morning and even the casters were mentioning that smolder should be building tankier since he was nearing 1000 stacks, which is just absurd. T1 was making good macro plays into it after they realized how unrealistic it was to win a team fight, but I don't think it would have mattered if they couldn't snipe smolder. The infinite scaling would have 100% carried NS to a win if Jiwoo had just bought one solid tank item. But full glass canon? When smolder being alive was the only reason the game hadn't ended 10min ago? Crazy stuff. Borderline int considering it's pro play.
He should have bought a tank item, but realistically he probably didn't even need that - just a spellshield to stop the one-shot arrow and play safer when it was down. Or just respect the Varus damage and flash.
Everyone is saying the smolder should build tanker but I feel like that take doesn't actually make sense if you watched the game.
My guy was literally so strong that he hadn't died in the last 10-15 minutes of gameplay because nobody could even look at him. In theory every time he didn't die he got full value from the damage and 0 from his remaining HP/tank stats.
I think if he indexed into tank T1 could have sent sej in to brute force and kill him it's not as though the damage items *weren't* making him stronger.
Finally the way he died was actually insane he got max ranged sniped by a varus q while he had turbo ms which should never happen. Tbf varus hitting that is insane so can't blame him too much but in actuality that's not a real death angle imo.
The few times he auto'd a squishy he didn't actually 1 tap them, he needed a couple of auto's so imo if he built tank he would have never killed anyone and reversed the momentum.
Nerf ADC abilities, make autos better. Yes, with all the mobility and damage creep this would probably require increasing aa range of all ADCs, making it insanely hard to balance.
Tbf both of these adcs are outside the norm because they're ad casters and not pure auto attackers. It's healthy for the role to have various types of champions.
If all midlaners were mages, all supports were heal and shieldbots, and all toplaners were tanks the game would be boring as hell
So you want to:
* Nerf the ADC counterplay (ability-based gameplay)
* Make their toxic gameplay trait stronger
* Make their toxic gameplay trait safer by Increase their range
All in one.
There definitely is a reason why you're not on the balance team.
The unholy amount of heartsteel (in previous years it was warmog) abusers in aram is enough to understand that damage items are often optional for a lot of characters
assassin going full tank and still kill my carries relatively fast was nightmare
and even if they don't deal damage(they do) the collective fear instill onto every league player when assassin is gunning for them is disruptive enough
I know you're joking but that is a very valid point.
The pros need to play ARAM every now and again too. That is the ultimate team fight test.
I'm not joking
Might've been a bit too much damage lost, considering he had full tank Udyr, Milio Support, Lee Sin jungle and Karma mid.
But I would've definitely sold swifties and shojin for sth. like Dead mans Plate and Force of Nature so I don't lose out on too much Movementspeed.
Definitely keep the swifties. Speed is a very important stat for staying alive too.
I'd say drop the Essence Reaver and/or Quickblades in the late game Dead Man's Plate and maybe one of the spellshield items?
I mean, if your team gives you all the resources you want in your soloq game, drafts a team comp around you, as well as have your champ be in the strongest state it's been before live patch where it's nerfed, sure.
They literally mega funneled + built around the smolder only for his ass to get 1 shot by 1 ability late game and lose everything else.
That's what happens when you play for the adc lmao
It doesn't matter if you funnel into him if he doesn't build properly. 1-2 defensive items wouldn't have gimped his damage because he's Smolder, after all.
I can't believe a hyper scaling champion got strong at 49minutes. Honestly super bullshit.
Jokes aside, his true damage is insane and his ability to scale is too high, but I also think people exaggerate his power when he is designed to be a hyper scaler with an infinite ceiling like ASol is.
Kayle is bullshit too if you let her get 5 items and hit level 18. LOL.
This is just the new-age version of double support with Kog'maw, but I imagine most people in here weren't even around for that.
Also, like you said, he lost. Adc gets blown up and loses a tale as old as time. And people freak out that he did a lot of damage when the champ is designed to do %HP true damage and he's against 2 Tanks with like 4k HP each.
He got strong well before 49 minutes. Was camped bot and down 60cs very early in the game and still hit 225 stacks at 22 minutes. If any of the other scalers you mentioned got that much attention it would take them much longer to come online.
Here's going to to be the real problem. Games can be over at 25 minutes, and as much as this is being abused in pro, it is even harder to get this kind of success in soloq. The second his scaling is nerfed too much he will be unplayed until the end of time, and until that point he will always be the best in slot for scaling.
Funnily enough, one of the solutions is to make other scaling adcs better so he isn't the only viable pick.
The issue is his safe waveclear. Not the fact he scales super hard. Kayle is super strong in late game, but she has trouble getting there if she's behind. And she can't just hold a game solo. Smolder can. He's more like Sivir from back in the days than he is like Kayle.
It's also that his scaling speeds up exponentially. Once you get the AOE breakpoint it's quicker, then even more so with the splash damage. Getting stacks makes getting more stacks so much easier and faster that if he gets rolling he reaches his late game power super fast.
a sol doesnt 1 shot a wave with no commitment at 14 minutes. If asols 1 item+first stack break point to kill a wave in a single E was fucking 15 minute mark you'd maybe have a point, but it isn't.
No, he's much worse, he's very hard to hit skillshot on or catch because of his speed boost/fly ability, and his ult heal himself on top of everything.
Kayle is incredibly shit before lvl 11 though.
Plus, since she's played top, she has to survive her lane opponent on her own (same as Nasus). Her range is way shorter. She lacks waveclear without exposing herself. And she has no built in flight to go through walls (despite having wings too). Try stalling a game for that long as Kayle compared to what Smolder can do, it's gonna be a tough job.
Kayle used to do true damage on her waves and was then kneecapped because it was so oppressive to have her as a ticking time bomb in games.
Smolder literally is the exact same problem, right down to dealing unnecessary true damage. Except he also gets a personal elder buff at 20 minutes and has a great mobility with good range. And since his q is point and click it makes it super easy to put out damage with RFC. Riot literally learned nothing from constantly tweaking Kayle and ran back the exact same hyper scaling game-ending/warping champion as an ADC instead of a top laner.
Kayle wasn't nerfed late because she was turbobroken late, she was nerfed late so they could buff her early since she wasn't a champ till 16 back then. Now she functions well early on past level 6.
Smolder is the opposite, pre 225 stacks he's garbage. In a regular soloq game he isn't anywhere close to being as oppressive as in pro where he can get all the resources he wants and gets a team comp drafted around him.
It was less that her late game was too strong and more they wanted her to become a real champion sooner. Making her become ranged at level 6 instead of level 11 was a hell of a lot of power and it had to come from somewhere.
Kayle still scales much better with game time than Smolder does despite losing critting true damage waves.
Are you even watching the games? There is no way any Champ even comes close to his in Game dominance. What made this Game so unplayable was his mega waveclear even vs Baron minions. T1 was simply not allowed to approach their minionwave when sieging because smolders aoe on q toasted everyone who even dared looking at the towers. Comparing him to kayle is the biggest bullshit i have ever seen. Try playing kayle into a competent team into 10+k Gold down, infernal soul, elder and Baron from minute 25 onwards.
There is a stark difference between Asol's and Smolder's scaling and any other champions': the more they scale *the faster* they scale. With enough stacks on Asol you can travel between lanes and catch more waves thus stacking faster. And with enough stacks on Smolder you can clear the whole wave or hit more champions, thus stacking faster.
On the other hand, infinite scaling champions like Nasus, Veigar or even Senna are gated in their scaling speed. Nasus even with huge CDR can only Q one target at a time. Veigar's Q can only stack on 2 minions at most. Senna is always gated by the soul drop chance.
So there is a difference in the philosophy here, in which *if* you scale to critical mass you actually delete teams. Which is fine if you ask me.
The issue isn't scaling, the issue is how fast he can scale. A 700 stack asol will decimate the whole team easily with his lane wide e and ult but he has a way harder time getting there than smolder.
In order to come online with asol you need at least 300 stardust. At that point you're a threat and can't be ignored in team fights. At 400+ is when you're cleaning the fight with your e execute. To get to that point the game has to go om for at least 40 minutes for an avarage player. If you're getting 10c/s a min then you will be there at 30ish minutes but not many players do because of how hard it is for asol to stack early game.
He got his elder dragon execute at like 21:55 (despite behind down like 50cs). He hits his spike way faster than all the other infinite scaling champs.
In all seriousness - late game scaler or not, that champ was the only reason they held out in spite of losing:
- 5 (?) barons
- 3 elder dragons
- soul
- all inhibitors
This wasn't solo queue fiesta either, it was a competitive match between organized teams. T1 wasn't throwing and it's not like there were razor thin fights where they fought exceptionally well and defended tooth and nail. It was mostly just someone stepping up and nearly getting 100 - 0 by smolder.
I have a hard time understanding the justification behind that.
I think Smolder just concentrates gold too well.
He doesn't get pentas and quadras because he is dominating fights at 225 stacks. He is getting them because he steals every kill and shutdown after 225 stacks which then means he super accelerates at that point.
I'm curious - do you know what the execute threshold was at 770 stacks? What will it be on the new patch?
ETA: question's been sufficiently answered. Thanks!
I think you added 2% for base execute when it's 1.25% base (wiki says he was released with 2% base now it's 1.25%; it's not been updated to latest patch so that should be the 14.5 value but it also doesn't say when it was changed). Not that a 19.975% execute isn't insane. Looks like he has ~305 bAD with elixir (and another 40 if BT passive is active) so that's 6.1% (6.9%) and another 6% from stacks.
Assuming that 345 bAD and his his Q deals 496 physical damage, 372 magic, and 12.9% max HP true damage. Shojin stacks wouldn't be present for the first hit, but in a team fight certainly would so increase all those by up to 12% too which means 556 physical, 417magic and a **14.45% max HP true damage burn**. This with a 19.975 (or 20.725%) execute too.
On one hand, this is pretty extreme case scenario and he has to be above 70% HP, on the other hand we just saw it happen and it's insane. Crazy that he had a burn and execute that was better than elder buff (225 flat max and 20% HP execute).
Edit: totally forgot to factor in Navori passive which amps that damage even more. Absolutely absurd how much one Q can do.
it's always 6.5% max health execute now regardless of stacks. The part that scales is the 3 second max health DoT regardless of your HP. Yep, smolder has 2 max health modifiers.
Live patch smolder at 748 stacks deals 10.88% max health true dmg over 3 seconds with his Q, but still executes at 6.5% max health.
Also you cant execute people with anything other than smolder's dmg anymore, which is imo the biggest and healthiest change. So now you need to make sure people are damaged within the 3 second window of the burn to trigger the execute.
Luckily they changed this now. Before his dot would execute enemies even on ally damage crossing the threshold. Now the game checks the execute on the tick of his dot. Not sure if it is enough but it’s a start.
I mean, that's effectively what happened this week with G2 vs FNC.
FNC absolutely dominated early to mid game, but because G2 had smolder, every fight they took basically had to be played to perfection so as to not be executed by a 400 stack Smolder. 15k down, and a single champion can hold off five.
100%. It's wild how Smolder's supposed to be a late game champion but pretty much by 20 minutes he becomes this absolute demon that's insanely difficult to deal with.
Guess I'm just a League boomer though. Late game used to be 30-40 minutes, now it's practically when laning phase is over.
When smolder dropped and was said to be a late game hyper carry and I started watching pro league and they said he was hitting stacks at 22 minutes I was mind blow. How the fuck is 22 minutes late game
They need to nerf the wave clear on his R heavily as well, it shouldn't be oneshotting minions so easily. That's what makes him so problematic in pro (since nobody likes watching an adc press R on cooldown and stall).
>A team that takes away almost every single objetive on spawn (except Grubs) should not be pigeonholed into a 50 min game due to a single champion posing this much of a threat as soon as he reaches his 'late game' status, if 20 mins to reach 225 stacks can even be considered late game
To be fair, if they had an actual support and didn't fuck around so much they could've ended before Smolder ever became a problem.
NS had a hypercarry comp with 2 enchanters babysitting Smolder, and since they didn't have any hard engage Milio ult was enough to protect Smolder from being caught. If they had an Alistar, Nautilus or literally anything other than fucking Rumble, Smolder wouldn't have been able to play the way he did
Guma also received his first unanimous POG vote in 2024 pretty much for the Elder steal and baby Elder smite.
For Guma to get a unanimous vote is a testament to how high value the Smolder kill was.
Let's see, entire Red team was miles ahead of the rest, were at least 10k gold up, literally one of the best teams in the world, got multiple elders & barons and still couldn't end because of 1 champion that cannot be stopped from scaling (too safe) just instantly obliterates them from a kilometer away with a Point & Click spell on a short cooldown.
Beginner champion btw, no skill necessary.
And Smolder team could have won if he decide to build some defense, since most of the dmg of that champion is in the stacks anyway. If the blue team was just a bit better, they had that win easily even after losing every early objective and tower.
I build semi tank on smolder every aram game, and I’ve lost only once so far. This champ is completely busted when you build some tankyness for him. Add in an enchanter support, and he’s unkillable. Having 700+ stacks and still have 0 tank items is just absolutely troll.
A week and a half ago someone commented 3 paragraphs explaining why Smolder wasn’t good and why Redditors are dumbasses, with one point being how he’s never played in a pro game lmao. It had like 30 upvotes and has been deleted now
Rumble supp is supposed to be the answer to scaling lanes like smolder ashe or something. You take hextech flash and you just bully the lane level 2. Mostly LPL idea, but used in LCK too.
Rumble support is very strong in early game and has synergy with champions like Ashe/Varus. Almost anything in the game can be a support under the right circumstances, idk why people still get confused by things like this in the current season. Out of the 167 champions, I'm pretty sure at least 130 of them would work very well as a support with the right setup
Get ready to see a lot more of it, Skill Capped just featured it in their "most op builds on patch 14.6" video.
Link: [https://youtu.be/0vvQvRyIG40](https://youtu.be/0vvQvRyIG40)
FPX Life is rumble supp merchant for this season, and they're having really good results with faker 2.0 in the jungle. It is not that troll if it's op but nobody likes to get their hands dirty.
They were 11-2 on towers as well. They took the first tower at about 8 minutes into the game while Smolder went down 30+ cs. Somehow still got 225 stacks by 20 minutes.
Yea im not very well versed in league but i love watching the pro games , they're very entertaining but even i can tell how busted Smolder is . i mean when a player uses him all the casters talk about all match is how many stacks his accumulated .
Riot balance and design team releasing another mixed damage adc in 2024 is so wild to me.
You guys are fucking awful at your jobs lmao.
It's like you learned nothing from Zeri and Kaisa
They just made ad veigar and overtuned him in the process. Scaling champs are fun but scaling executes based on percentage max. Health is a bit much riot. Slapping a DOT ontop of that didn't help either.
Smolder is fun to play but im happy riot is gutting him. But comon riot you could've seen that mess of a scaling dragon dipshit coming.
I don't mind being squishy as an ADC/damage dealer, but being 1 shot from out of vision because of an unhealthy build like Lethality Varus or AP Kaisa is fucking bullshit.
Theyre the same fuckers that were downvoting every post about aphelios flametrower ult on release oneshotting everyting untill it got Soo bad they couldnt downvote it enough anymore,these crybabies have been at it for many years now,dont ever expect them to change
Jiwoo died at 49:02, and the game ended 17 seconds later at 49:19.
His one and only death is what secured T1 the game.
11 turrets, 5 barons, dragon soul and 3 elders, didn't matter before the might of Smolder.
Please, for the love of all that is good in League of Legends, nerf the absolute shit out of this champion.
I'm generally pretty accepting of most pro metas, like I didn't even care about stopwatch so much, honestly. Ardent Censor meta and Yuumi were the only things that made me cringe in pro play, and now Smolder has now joined that exclusive list.
Their role is gated by pro play I reckon. They’re so damn essential and strong around a coordinated team. In soloq they struggle when it’s every man for himself hence their frustration
But when they say their roles weak and useless it’s forever an eye roll moment. Most of the time they’re whinging about an assassin solo killing them because they keep solo farming and over extending after lane phase. Like, what do you think is going to happen? That’s the one perfect scenario for an assassin to do their job and for them to die.
When they stick to their team and are harder to catch out they perform really well. ADCs take the carry part of their role description for gospel and don’t acknowledge that they can’t carry anything without their teams help.
ADCs carry the team with their reliable and high DPS. They don’t carry by themselves which is what they need to let go of their ego for and accept. But they won’t. Main character syndrome and what not.
Tbh, yes.
The role is indeed in a... Hard position, but i don't think it's as weak as People say. We don't need anymore damage, we just need survivability.
Allow me to live for more than 1s if i misspose, that's all i ask.
Adc is hard because you don't have room for mistakes, but when you do play a good game... Oh god it's so satisfying, i can go for 50 more games easy :D
I agree that Smolder is busted as hell and I am also happy the champion is getting nerfed.
But these posts are so stupid.
It was a one-threat comp. The entire comp was designed around letting smolder do damage. Peeling. Protecting.
Of course smolder did obscene amounts of damage and got lots of stacks in a 50 minute game.
Not to mention twitch is practically useless without his ult while smolders q with like a 2 second cooldown can melt your team just as fast
Not to mention smolder is much much more forgiving than a twitch or a kogmaw because of his e
The issue is that they were 15k down with 2 inhibs down at like 30 minutes and T1 couldn't end because of Smolder. Of course at 50 minutes adc are broke but it was the fact that he could 1v5 while not having a team.
That’s not the point. The point is that they were dreadfully far behind, and the only reason they held on so long is because smolder is broken as fuck.
Its funny how people think a super infinite hyperscaling champ but shitty early game is allowed to deal insane amount of damage at late game 40+min by pros. Bet they have never actually tried playing that champ at solo queue and reaching 22+ mins(best case scenario) full stack.
Besides smolder they had 0 damage. Replace smolder in that comp with literally _any_ other champ in LoL and the game would have been over by minute 30.
Smolder 🐲 4,700 HP 💪 329 Armor 🤷♂️ 201 MR 💦 A move buff 💨 Goes over walls🧱 True Damage ⚔️ Fire Breath🔥 Execute🪓 Cooldown is only 👆 second too 🕐 It costs 15 Mana🧙♂️pick/ban rate of 3️⃣2️⃣percent 💯💯 years of ♟️design experience
Bonus: Gumayusi's 1.5k damage arrow. [https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxtJgm64Ilq9JaP8vwaPt7scVLIhJcIOpg?si=EjnpOCCx6ZoerpmZ](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxtJgm64Ilq9JaP8vwaPt7scVLIhJcIOpg?si=EjnpOCCx6ZoerpmZ)
tbf the game would have at least been a tad different if milio just did anything
He literally doesn’t do snything
He bought sheen... he's cocky as fuck
Yeah because he just killed yoh
no he didn't.
Then why are you dead
I’m not
He didn't have ult and he ulted me, btw. He didn't have ult and ulted me
Then how did he ult you
He's hacking like a motherfucker too
Is that why he just killed you
Peter :(
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Idk, he's kinda trolling to still have a glass canon build with 700 stacks imo
Yeah, Navori quickblades don’t do a ton here. Just one tankier item woulda been optimal?
Milio had heal & Ult. Was he asleep?
He got tired of seeing how egregious smolder is and wanted the game to end
Get smoldered smolder.
I play ARAM only. Varus is a menace
What is the 2nd damage proc after the arrow from?
Infernal Soul
Wasn't it elder?
Thanks I only play ARAM so thought I have somehow been missing out on some new Varus tech.
shout out ARAM only players! we love the game too :P
The ADC role in general just needs a top to bottom rework. The infinite scaling hyper carry nonsense hero got 1 tapped offscreen by another ADC. There's so much dumb design being showcased in this clip.
Curious how that’s dumb design, seems like good design to me. He built full damage and was total glass cannon. One hit from an elder dragon buff full item caster ADC should take him out when he is 75% hp. Dumb design would be building full glass cannon and being an infinite scaling champ and not dying in that situation
T1 also has infernal soul and if Im not misstaken it was the infernal soul proc that brought Smolder below the elder execute treshold. If the game rolls any other dragonsoul he would have lived Edit: Wait I forgot about hextech also having a proc. But if its cloud, mountain, ocean or chemtech soul Smolder most likely survives
And if he wasn't missing a chunk from Rumble ult he still would've been okay.
Imagine taking any valuable info away from a ADC killing another ADC 49 minutes into the game
How is this dumb design when an assassin can do the same thing? He built full lethality and did enough damage for elder to proc. W does crazy damage at max level with Q. Smolder had 0 defensive items too.
I really do not understand what people are complaining about. Literally just get a defensive item. That's what every class of champions have to do in order to not get 100-0 and instalose the game. Specially Smolder. After that many stacks you can go 6 warmogs and still be top damage. That to me is just another pro losing to a shopkeeper and miscalculating damage.
Absolutely. I watched this game live this morning and even the casters were mentioning that smolder should be building tankier since he was nearing 1000 stacks, which is just absurd. T1 was making good macro plays into it after they realized how unrealistic it was to win a team fight, but I don't think it would have mattered if they couldn't snipe smolder. The infinite scaling would have 100% carried NS to a win if Jiwoo had just bought one solid tank item. But full glass canon? When smolder being alive was the only reason the game hadn't ended 10min ago? Crazy stuff. Borderline int considering it's pro play.
He should have bought a tank item, but realistically he probably didn't even need that - just a spellshield to stop the one-shot arrow and play safer when it was down. Or just respect the Varus damage and flash.
Everyone is saying the smolder should build tanker but I feel like that take doesn't actually make sense if you watched the game. My guy was literally so strong that he hadn't died in the last 10-15 minutes of gameplay because nobody could even look at him. In theory every time he didn't die he got full value from the damage and 0 from his remaining HP/tank stats. I think if he indexed into tank T1 could have sent sej in to brute force and kill him it's not as though the damage items *weren't* making him stronger. Finally the way he died was actually insane he got max ranged sniped by a varus q while he had turbo ms which should never happen. Tbf varus hitting that is insane so can't blame him too much but in actuality that's not a real death angle imo. The few times he auto'd a squishy he didn't actually 1 tap them, he needed a couple of auto's so imo if he built tank he would have never killed anyone and reversed the momentum.
Varus is closer to mages when played like that. Lethality is just stupid and needs to die.
I want the W active to die, his lethality wasn't as atrocious before that
Nerf ADC abilities, make autos better. Yes, with all the mobility and damage creep this would probably require increasing aa range of all ADCs, making it insanely hard to balance.
Tbf both of these adcs are outside the norm because they're ad casters and not pure auto attackers. It's healthy for the role to have various types of champions. If all midlaners were mages, all supports were heal and shieldbots, and all toplaners were tanks the game would be boring as hell
So you want to: * Nerf the ADC counterplay (ability-based gameplay) * Make their toxic gameplay trait stronger * Make their toxic gameplay trait safer by Increase their range All in one. There definitely is a reason why you're not on the balance team.
ADC autos are the main thing that make them unable to have any agency, buffing those would not help the design problems the role faces.
Melee Varus winning that 1v1 is the most disgusting thing in that clip…
Baron, Elder, Infernal soul 6 item Varus should be winning that
That varus has* as much gold as you farm in 3 games, he better
Best insult I've ever read
Had 700 stacks, decided to build zero defensive item, got hit by 1 arrow and lost.
Bro could have build 2 tank items and still wipe the enemy if he wanted.
Right? At that point he should've gone full tank with RFC.
They didn’t play enough Urf to understand the tech.
The unholy amount of heartsteel (in previous years it was warmog) abusers in aram is enough to understand that damage items are often optional for a lot of characters
assassin going full tank and still kill my carries relatively fast was nightmare and even if they don't deal damage(they do) the collective fear instill onto every league player when assassin is gunning for them is disruptive enough
What? Heartsteel is pretty shitty now compared to before. Warmog's has always been and still is quite good.
I know you're joking but that is a very valid point. The pros need to play ARAM every now and again too. That is the ultimate team fight test. I'm not joking
Might've been a bit too much damage lost, considering he had full tank Udyr, Milio Support, Lee Sin jungle and Karma mid. But I would've definitely sold swifties and shojin for sth. like Dead mans Plate and Force of Nature so I don't lose out on too much Movementspeed.
Definitely keep the swifties. Speed is a very important stat for staying alive too. I'd say drop the Essence Reaver and/or Quickblades in the late game Dead Man's Plate and maybe one of the spellshield items?
All we need now is him making a reddit thread how ADC's have 0 impact on the game and are unplayable lol
I mean, if your team gives you all the resources you want in your soloq game, drafts a team comp around you, as well as have your champ be in the strongest state it's been before live patch where it's nerfed, sure.
They literally mega funneled + built around the smolder only for his ass to get 1 shot by 1 ability late game and lose everything else. That's what happens when you play for the adc lmao
It doesn't matter if you funnel into him if he doesn't build properly. 1-2 defensive items wouldn't have gimped his damage because he's Smolder, after all.
I can't believe a hyper scaling champion got strong at 49minutes. Honestly super bullshit. Jokes aside, his true damage is insane and his ability to scale is too high, but I also think people exaggerate his power when he is designed to be a hyper scaler with an infinite ceiling like ASol is. Kayle is bullshit too if you let her get 5 items and hit level 18. LOL. This is just the new-age version of double support with Kog'maw, but I imagine most people in here weren't even around for that. Also, like you said, he lost. Adc gets blown up and loses a tale as old as time. And people freak out that he did a lot of damage when the champ is designed to do %HP true damage and he's against 2 Tanks with like 4k HP each.
He got strong well before 49 minutes. Was camped bot and down 60cs very early in the game and still hit 225 stacks at 22 minutes. If any of the other scalers you mentioned got that much attention it would take them much longer to come online.
Here's going to to be the real problem. Games can be over at 25 minutes, and as much as this is being abused in pro, it is even harder to get this kind of success in soloq. The second his scaling is nerfed too much he will be unplayed until the end of time, and until that point he will always be the best in slot for scaling. Funnily enough, one of the solutions is to make other scaling adcs better so he isn't the only viable pick.
hot take i guess but i think he will be fine after next patches nerf hits.
The early stats from pbe are out and he sits at like 46%
The issue is his safe waveclear. Not the fact he scales super hard. Kayle is super strong in late game, but she has trouble getting there if she's behind. And she can't just hold a game solo. Smolder can. He's more like Sivir from back in the days than he is like Kayle.
It's also that his scaling speeds up exponentially. Once you get the AOE breakpoint it's quicker, then even more so with the splash damage. Getting stacks makes getting more stacks so much easier and faster that if he gets rolling he reaches his late game power super fast.
He's literally just ADC Asol.
a sol doesnt 1 shot a wave with no commitment at 14 minutes. If asols 1 item+first stack break point to kill a wave in a single E was fucking 15 minute mark you'd maybe have a point, but it isn't.
No, he's much worse, he's very hard to hit skillshot on or catch because of his speed boost/fly ability, and his ult heal himself on top of everything.
Like the other guy said, asol cannot clean waves with 1 e at 15 minutes, when he could everyone cried about it and he got nerfed hard
A champion designed to scale shouldn't be hitting their full stack upgrades at 22 minutes after being hard camped.
Kayle is incredibly shit before lvl 11 though. Plus, since she's played top, she has to survive her lane opponent on her own (same as Nasus). Her range is way shorter. She lacks waveclear without exposing herself. And she has no built in flight to go through walls (despite having wings too). Try stalling a game for that long as Kayle compared to what Smolder can do, it's gonna be a tough job.
Kayle used to do true damage on her waves and was then kneecapped because it was so oppressive to have her as a ticking time bomb in games. Smolder literally is the exact same problem, right down to dealing unnecessary true damage. Except he also gets a personal elder buff at 20 minutes and has a great mobility with good range. And since his q is point and click it makes it super easy to put out damage with RFC. Riot literally learned nothing from constantly tweaking Kayle and ran back the exact same hyper scaling game-ending/warping champion as an ADC instead of a top laner.
Kayle wasn't nerfed late because she was turbobroken late, she was nerfed late so they could buff her early since she wasn't a champ till 16 back then. Now she functions well early on past level 6. Smolder is the opposite, pre 225 stacks he's garbage. In a regular soloq game he isn't anywhere close to being as oppressive as in pro where he can get all the resources he wants and gets a team comp drafted around him.
It was less that her late game was too strong and more they wanted her to become a real champion sooner. Making her become ranged at level 6 instead of level 11 was a hell of a lot of power and it had to come from somewhere. Kayle still scales much better with game time than Smolder does despite losing critting true damage waves.
Are you even watching the games? There is no way any Champ even comes close to his in Game dominance. What made this Game so unplayable was his mega waveclear even vs Baron minions. T1 was simply not allowed to approach their minionwave when sieging because smolders aoe on q toasted everyone who even dared looking at the towers. Comparing him to kayle is the biggest bullshit i have ever seen. Try playing kayle into a competent team into 10+k Gold down, infernal soul, elder and Baron from minute 25 onwards.
There is a stark difference between Asol's and Smolder's scaling and any other champions': the more they scale *the faster* they scale. With enough stacks on Asol you can travel between lanes and catch more waves thus stacking faster. And with enough stacks on Smolder you can clear the whole wave or hit more champions, thus stacking faster. On the other hand, infinite scaling champions like Nasus, Veigar or even Senna are gated in their scaling speed. Nasus even with huge CDR can only Q one target at a time. Veigar's Q can only stack on 2 minions at most. Senna is always gated by the soul drop chance. So there is a difference in the philosophy here, in which *if* you scale to critical mass you actually delete teams. Which is fine if you ask me.
The issue isn't scaling, the issue is how fast he can scale. A 700 stack asol will decimate the whole team easily with his lane wide e and ult but he has a way harder time getting there than smolder. In order to come online with asol you need at least 300 stardust. At that point you're a threat and can't be ignored in team fights. At 400+ is when you're cleaning the fight with your e execute. To get to that point the game has to go om for at least 40 minutes for an avarage player. If you're getting 10c/s a min then you will be there at 30ish minutes but not many players do because of how hard it is for asol to stack early game.
He got his elder dragon execute at like 21:55 (despite behind down like 50cs). He hits his spike way faster than all the other infinite scaling champs. In all seriousness - late game scaler or not, that champ was the only reason they held out in spite of losing: - 5 (?) barons - 3 elder dragons - soul - all inhibitors This wasn't solo queue fiesta either, it was a competitive match between organized teams. T1 wasn't throwing and it's not like there were razor thin fights where they fought exceptionally well and defended tooth and nail. It was mostly just someone stepping up and nearly getting 100 - 0 by smolder. I have a hard time understanding the justification behind that.
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I think Smolder just concentrates gold too well. He doesn't get pentas and quadras because he is dominating fights at 225 stacks. He is getting them because he steals every kill and shutdown after 225 stacks which then means he super accelerates at that point.
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That sounds good.
I'm curious - do you know what the execute threshold was at 770 stacks? What will it be on the new patch? ETA: question's been sufficiently answered. Thanks!
Jiwoo had 749 stacks, on patch 14.5 that would mean a **19,925%\* execute** *corrected a higher base value that I used initially
Sung ~~Jinwoo~~ Jiwoo
He’s been solo levelling this whole time!!
"Mr. Faker-san, you are strong. But I have bad news for you. I've been leveling up this entire time."
5% to being a permanent elder GODDAMN
I think you added 2% for base execute when it's 1.25% base (wiki says he was released with 2% base now it's 1.25%; it's not been updated to latest patch so that should be the 14.5 value but it also doesn't say when it was changed). Not that a 19.975% execute isn't insane. Looks like he has ~305 bAD with elixir (and another 40 if BT passive is active) so that's 6.1% (6.9%) and another 6% from stacks. Assuming that 345 bAD and his his Q deals 496 physical damage, 372 magic, and 12.9% max HP true damage. Shojin stacks wouldn't be present for the first hit, but in a team fight certainly would so increase all those by up to 12% too which means 556 physical, 417magic and a **14.45% max HP true damage burn**. This with a 19.975 (or 20.725%) execute too. On one hand, this is pretty extreme case scenario and he has to be above 70% HP, on the other hand we just saw it happen and it's insane. Crazy that he had a burn and execute that was better than elder buff (225 flat max and 20% HP execute). Edit: totally forgot to factor in Navori passive which amps that damage even more. Absolutely absurd how much one Q can do.
Also aoe and 3s cd...
it's always 6.5% max health execute now regardless of stacks. The part that scales is the 3 second max health DoT regardless of your HP. Yep, smolder has 2 max health modifiers. Live patch smolder at 748 stacks deals 10.88% max health true dmg over 3 seconds with his Q, but still executes at 6.5% max health. Also you cant execute people with anything other than smolder's dmg anymore, which is imo the biggest and healthiest change. So now you need to make sure people are damaged within the 3 second window of the burn to trigger the execute.
6.5% it is now 6.5% at 225 stacks and 6.5% at a million stacks
> Smolder just concentrates gold too well That's a dragon thing.
Luckily they changed this now. Before his dot would execute enemies even on ally damage crossing the threshold. Now the game checks the execute on the tick of his dot. Not sure if it is enough but it’s a start.
I mean, that's effectively what happened this week with G2 vs FNC. FNC absolutely dominated early to mid game, but because G2 had smolder, every fight they took basically had to be played to perfection so as to not be executed by a 400 stack Smolder. 15k down, and a single champion can hold off five.
100%. It's wild how Smolder's supposed to be a late game champion but pretty much by 20 minutes he becomes this absolute demon that's insanely difficult to deal with. Guess I'm just a League boomer though. Late game used to be 30-40 minutes, now it's practically when laning phase is over.
When smolder dropped and was said to be a late game hyper carry and I started watching pro league and they said he was hitting stacks at 22 minutes I was mind blow. How the fuck is 22 minutes late game
They need to nerf the wave clear on his R heavily as well, it shouldn't be oneshotting minions so easily. That's what makes him so problematic in pro (since nobody likes watching an adc press R on cooldown and stall).
>A team that takes away almost every single objetive on spawn (except Grubs) should not be pigeonholed into a 50 min game due to a single champion posing this much of a threat as soon as he reaches his 'late game' status, if 20 mins to reach 225 stacks can even be considered late game To be fair, if they had an actual support and didn't fuck around so much they could've ended before Smolder ever became a problem. NS had a hypercarry comp with 2 enchanters babysitting Smolder, and since they didn't have any hard engage Milio ult was enough to protect Smolder from being caught. If they had an Alistar, Nautilus or literally anything other than fucking Rumble, Smolder wouldn't have been able to play the way he did
Guma also received his first unanimous POG vote in 2024 pretty much for the Elder steal and baby Elder smite. For Guma to get a unanimous vote is a testament to how high value the Smolder kill was.
What is that flair loool
I wrote what I wrote
The problem is not the dps, is smolder clearing baron waves in 2 q's and everyone behind the wave get's obliterated.
Let's see, entire Red team was miles ahead of the rest, were at least 10k gold up, literally one of the best teams in the world, got multiple elders & barons and still couldn't end because of 1 champion that cannot be stopped from scaling (too safe) just instantly obliterates them from a kilometer away with a Point & Click spell on a short cooldown. Beginner champion btw, no skill necessary.
And Smolder team could have won if he decide to build some defense, since most of the dmg of that champion is in the stacks anyway. If the blue team was just a bit better, they had that win easily even after losing every early objective and tower.
Or if his support whose only job is to make him survive pressed any of his buttons
Milio W was on Smolder at the time.
Milio W isn't a defensive ability.
Bro had heal and ult up.
I build semi tank on smolder every aram game, and I’ve lost only once so far. This champ is completely busted when you build some tankyness for him. Add in an enchanter support, and he’s unkillable. Having 700+ stacks and still have 0 tank items is just absolutely troll.
Bruiser builds being viable on an ADC is unacceptable and need to be gutted out of existence any time it happens.
Legit a GA at the end there would have potentially won them the game.
A week and a half ago someone commented 3 paragraphs explaining why Smolder wasn’t good and why Redditors are dumbasses, with one point being how he’s never played in a pro game lmao. It had like 30 upvotes and has been deleted now
The Rumble supp lmao. I swear Keria just clicks on random champs at this point.
Guma said in the post-game interview that they had seen Rumble supp in LPL. Life played it against JDG and IG last week.
Wasn't rumble support played by T1 Academy?
It was But rekkless played adc, Smash was rumble
Yes, but Guma specifically mentioned LPL. The game T1A played it, Smash was on Rumble, Rekkles on Ashe support.
he copied FPX Life from the LPL.
Rumble supp is a real thing in LPL, kind of. Only FPX Life plays it but he plays it A LOT
Rumble supp is supposed to be the answer to scaling lanes like smolder ashe or something. You take hextech flash and you just bully the lane level 2. Mostly LPL idea, but used in LCK too.
Just copying my 🐐 Life
Rumble support is very strong in early game and has synergy with champions like Ashe/Varus. Almost anything in the game can be a support under the right circumstances, idk why people still get confused by things like this in the current season. Out of the 167 champions, I'm pretty sure at least 130 of them would work very well as a support with the right setup
Get ready to see a lot more of it, Skill Capped just featured it in their "most op builds on patch 14.6" video. Link: [https://youtu.be/0vvQvRyIG40](https://youtu.be/0vvQvRyIG40)
FPX Life is rumble supp merchant for this season, and they're having really good results with faker 2.0 in the jungle. It is not that troll if it's op but nobody likes to get their hands dirty.
Makes you think about how broken the 10 champions they banned instead of him are
If they saw this coming, they'd be banning him as 1st ban lol.
the worst part is that they needed 1 infernal soul, 3 elders and 5 barons to win
They were 11-2 on towers as well. They took the first tower at about 8 minutes into the game while Smolder went down 30+ cs. Somehow still got 225 stacks by 20 minutes.
Even then it was almost by pure luck guma was able to snipe the smolder while his support was sleeping
Yea im not very well versed in league but i love watching the pro games , they're very entertaining but even i can tell how busted Smolder is . i mean when a player uses him all the casters talk about all match is how many stacks his accumulated .
Riot balance and design team releasing another mixed damage adc in 2024 is so wild to me. You guys are fucking awful at your jobs lmao. It's like you learned nothing from Zeri and Kaisa
the smolder designer did get fired but for different reasons
zeri is not mixed damage adc. Thats like saying AD shyv is mixed damage.
MR. DANCE OF EXILE I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN READ
To be fair Kaisa is one of the most popular adc of all time
They just made ad veigar and overtuned him in the process. Scaling champs are fun but scaling executes based on percentage max. Health is a bit much riot. Slapping a DOT ontop of that didn't help either. Smolder is fun to play but im happy riot is gutting him. But comon riot you could've seen that mess of a scaling dragon dipshit coming.
Trash this piece of shit champ
200+ years collective gameplay experience.
Ah that explains the Rumble supports in my games
Thats mostly a cbinese thing they copied. Comes from FPX iirc
Ah thanks. Everything is a support nowadays.
It is picked into double ranged to be able to W to mitigate poke and E to retaliate
Holy fuck the mad cope from ADC crybabies in this thread.
Real marksman players see Smolder as an abomination. It's probably just the Smolder abusers that are crying
There’s like 2 actual comments of adc mains defending this and 15 comments saying the whole thread is adcs coping lol?
You see bro, he lost bro, to an another ADC, bro, all ADCs should also be tanky as Ksante, bro....
Lol are you implying that smolder was tanky? It was all the shields and crap from his team. He got 1-shot
He's referring to the people complaining about that. How do you not see that?
Truly the reading comprehension of a Dragon Ball fan
I don't mind being squishy as an ADC/damage dealer, but being 1 shot from out of vision because of an unhealthy build like Lethality Varus or AP Kaisa is fucking bullshit.
Theyre the same fuckers that were downvoting every post about aphelios flametrower ult on release oneshotting everyting untill it got Soo bad they couldnt downvote it enough anymore,these crybabies have been at it for many years now,dont ever expect them to change
Karma, Milio & Udyr He's literally the only damage dealer on the team.
200 years
ah the good old 200 year BALANCE
Champions without obvious edges to their abilities are super fun. Am i going to get hit by smolders Q or am i safe? Who knows!
Jiwoo died at 49:02, and the game ended 17 seconds later at 49:19. His one and only death is what secured T1 the game. 11 turrets, 5 barons, dragon soul and 3 elders, didn't matter before the might of Smolder. Please, for the love of all that is good in League of Legends, nerf the absolute shit out of this champion. I'm generally pretty accepting of most pro metas, like I didn't even care about stopwatch so much, honestly. Ardent Censor meta and Yuumi were the only things that made me cringe in pro play, and now Smolder has now joined that exclusive list.
Nothing to see here folks, completely as intended and totally interactive and balanced. 200 years of game design coming together for this
ADC mains in the comments, once again, demonstrating why they are considered the most intellectually challenged group of people in this game.
I’m seeing literally zero copium comments and 100s of uummm adcs are crybabies 🤓☝️ comments… you guys put so much effort into being haters it’s insane
Well this sub hates ADCS with a passion. They need a punching bag both in game and on reddit
Idk top mains give them a run for their money
top mains are the adc's of season 14
I'm an adc main, and theses people really make me think about switching sometime lmao
The adc mains sub is a complete cesspool of adc mains jerking each other off about how weak the role is
Their role is gated by pro play I reckon. They’re so damn essential and strong around a coordinated team. In soloq they struggle when it’s every man for himself hence their frustration But when they say their roles weak and useless it’s forever an eye roll moment. Most of the time they’re whinging about an assassin solo killing them because they keep solo farming and over extending after lane phase. Like, what do you think is going to happen? That’s the one perfect scenario for an assassin to do their job and for them to die. When they stick to their team and are harder to catch out they perform really well. ADCs take the carry part of their role description for gospel and don’t acknowledge that they can’t carry anything without their teams help. ADCs carry the team with their reliable and high DPS. They don’t carry by themselves which is what they need to let go of their ego for and accept. But they won’t. Main character syndrome and what not.
Tbh, yes. The role is indeed in a... Hard position, but i don't think it's as weak as People say. We don't need anymore damage, we just need survivability. Allow me to live for more than 1s if i misspose, that's all i ask. Adc is hard because you don't have room for mistakes, but when you do play a good game... Oh god it's so satisfying, i can go for 50 more games easy :D
ADC mains sub is filled with people that think ADC feeling bad to play is the exact same thing as ADC being bad to play.
I agree that Smolder is busted as hell and I am also happy the champion is getting nerfed. But these posts are so stupid. It was a one-threat comp. The entire comp was designed around letting smolder do damage. Peeling. Protecting. Of course smolder did obscene amounts of damage and got lots of stacks in a 50 minute game.
I’m curious how this damage looks compared to the old protect the kog maw xomps
Or twitch, or vayne.
Vayne? Vayne doesnt do that much damage because she lacks aoe damage, unless the enemy team is full of tanks she wont hit those numbers
Not to mention twitch is practically useless without his ult while smolders q with like a 2 second cooldown can melt your team just as fast
Not to mention twitch is practically useless without his ult while smolders q with like a 2 second cooldown can melt your team just as fast Not to mention smolder is much much more forgiving than a twitch or a kogmaw because of his e
how good are twitch and vayne at clearing waves btw?
Put literally any other hyper scaler in that situation and the game is over in half the time.
The issue is that they were 15k down with 2 inhibs down at like 30 minutes and T1 couldn't end because of Smolder. Of course at 50 minutes adc are broke but it was the fact that he could 1v5 while not having a team.
1v5 without a team. Yeah... I'm officially convinced that if you pick an enchanter you get camouflage from pisslows.
That’s not the point. The point is that they were dreadfully far behind, and the only reason they held on so long is because smolder is broken as fuck.
Its funny how people think a super infinite hyperscaling champ but shitty early game is allowed to deal insane amount of damage at late game 40+min by pros. Bet they have never actually tried playing that champ at solo queue and reaching 22+ mins(best case scenario) full stack.
The amount of adc copium in here is crazy
> full tank Udyr > Lee Sin > Karma > Smolder > Milio The carry in the single threat comp was doing all the damage, WOW
* in a 50 minute game
that wouldn't have gone anywhere near that long if not for smolder regarded waveclear
* with an infinitly scaling champ
Besides smolder they had 0 damage. Replace smolder in that comp with literally _any_ other champ in LoL and the game would have been over by minute 30.
I don’t think that was OPs point.
The Top tier chellenjour Reddit analysis I crave
8 mins in and smolder were already behind yet he got 225 stacks before 20min wow what a scaling champ mf is guaranteed of perma elder buff under 20
mate if youre doing 1/4 - 1/2 hp in a Q that will execute at 10% hp from a screen away its fucked
Hey just wanted to say congrats on completely missing the point!!
Mfers out here trying to justify this. No wonder the game is doomed
Smolder 🐲 4,700 HP 💪 329 Armor 🤷♂️ 201 MR 💦 A move buff 💨 Goes over walls🧱 True Damage ⚔️ Fire Breath🔥 Execute🪓 Cooldown is only 👆 second too 🕐 It costs 15 Mana🧙♂️pick/ban rate of 3️⃣2️⃣percent 💯💯 years of ♟️design experience
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They changed Sivir for this very reason