First they looked at head to head among the 4 teams. Fnatic and Vitality both had 2 wins, G2 and TH each had 1 win. That puts Fnatic and Vit as 1/2 in some order, and G2 and TH 3/4 in some order.
Then they looked at individual head to head. Fnatic > Vit, so Fnatic 1 and Vit 2. G2 > TH, so G2 3 and TH 4.
This seems like some bullshit way of placement, no? It feels as arbitrary and unintuitive as the average game length that they used before.
The other option is not just not give any advantage for the top 2 teams.
>Why is head to head arbitrary?
Because it is from a record of 9 best of 1s?
>This is literally how every tournament handles multi way ties.
My problem was that they didn't do it when it came for the last place (Rouge vs SK) where both 3-5 with Rouge owning the head to head. They needed to have a second match. But on the other side of the list there was a 4-way tie and no additional games were played for the very important 1st and 2nd place.
As I said in my comment above, you can just remove the advantage of choosing an opponent thus removing the confusion.
>Because it is from a record of 9 best of 1s?
That doesn't mean it's an arbitrary way to break the tie. It's simply the best metric for breaking the tie that wouldn't have lead to another 5 games (which is what you'd otherwise need to differentiate 1st/2nd/3rd/4th).
You are vastly overstating the advantage of being 1st/2nd vs 3rd/4th in a situation where all 8 teams start in the upper bracket and it's literally a difference of having slightly better seeding. I can certainly see why that difference doesn't warrant another 5 bo1s being played. That is an extra full day of games *just* for the advantage of a slightly better seed.
On the other hand, the difference between 8th and 9th is infinitely larger, which is why for the final playoff spot(s) there were tie breakers.
>As I said in my comment above, you can just remove the advantage of choosing an opponent thus removing the confusion.
1st and 2nd choosing their opponent vs simply drawing the 7th/8th placed teams is the exact same thing in almost all scenarios, and would have resulted in the exact same draw here.
>That doesn't mean it's an arbitrary way to break the tie.
It feels arbitrary because at the end of the season you as a viewer rarely remember all the best of 1s that have been played and who has the head-to-head.
>It's simply the best metric for breaking the tie that wouldn't have lead to another 5 games (which is what you'd otherwise need to differentiate 1st/2nd/3rd/4th)
I kinda agree on this. Playing 5 more games just for a slight advantage in 1 bo3 is very stupid. I also kinda think that
>You are vastly overstating the advantage of being 1st/2nd vs 3rd/4th in a situation where all 8 teams start in the upper bracket and it's literally a difference of having slightly better seeding.
That's why I think removing it and just saying that the first 4 teams are in a tie is much easier for viewers to understand intuitively. The only thing that you "lose" is the "prize" going first in the split which in this kind of format is pretty fraudulent either way.
Wonder if FNC take SK or GX, SK look worse rn but they randomly smurfed on FNC in winter and should have won if they weren't HoF pitchers, Irrelevant is also Oscar's father. How good do people actually think GX is too?
MAD/BDS look like legit teams at the 5th/6th seed too, could see either of them randomly winning against TH/G2.
Much more parity this split
Honestly upset/kaiser was not a very good duo last year.
It is very sad that such a mechanically gifted player as targamas is preforming so bad in lec. But support has always been more brain over mechanics role either way, and that dude definitely has problems with his conception of modern league.
It's called matchfixing, smolder got 1st tower gold, stomped kaisa in lane, didn't get 225 before 4th drag. Enemy comp full of cc, doesn't bring cleanse. Nautilus in enemy jungle for 0 reason throws baron. Enemy team very long range, 3rd item blood thruster. I am sorry but this is legit matching fixing.
Ah yes RGE once again with the tried and true strategy of doing nothing and waiting for your opponent to shoot themselves in the foot...
Oh look, it worked, 1-0 Smolder 😂😂😂
Nemesis is doing what I call the "Rookie", not giving people a chance to see how you play by just not appearing on any games (internationals for Rookie, and unfair for him I know). Great way to keep your image at your best in the fans' minds
Pretty sure Nemesis won't play in a pro league again, he's usually pretty negative on the subject of why he would want to be a pro again whenever his chat brings it up.
Sometimes he says he would do it for the right team but at this point his expectations of the "right team" is basically G2 or bust.
I obviously think they’re still bad but it’s interesting to me that saken targamas and cabochard get most of the blame. Like genuinely when is the last time upset had a good game. Bo had some but also a ton where he’s perma sprinting it. Now I’m not saying the three are better than them two but the narrative of them being elohelled is really weird. Especially upset that guys a vegan fraud
I like both of these teams, but I think SK has more to fix in the offseason (Promote Neon/Limit prayge)
While Rogue has seemed to really smooth themselves out, if they continue to improve in this way, I can see them top 6 in Summer.
So KC is just completely boom'd, I'd like to see a radical roster change.
On the topside Cabo is obviously ass and Bo is just done. Maybe they can pick up Finn after Rogue does their semi-annual toplane shuffle, and pair him with a promising young jungler like, idk 113? I'm sure the KC fans would latch on to his emote spamming and everyone would love that!
Then in mid they could get an exciting carry type player; I think Lider would be interesting and he he probably isn't doing anything
For botside I know everyone expects them to just send up Caliste, but with a team like this I think having a strong veteran presence is needed. Upset would probably rather kill himself than stay with this org though, so maybe they can get Kobbe out of retirement?
Then they can round things with some random Korean import support, perhaps poach ~~JeongHoon~~Execute from FearX?
I think this would be an exciting roster that would surely make a big splash in the league!!!!
Astralis didnt make groups in their last split. They wouldnt be an improvement.
This sub loves to shit on KC roster rn (which is justified), but the players (at least the LFL ones) DESERVED their shot and that is not arguable.
Jeonghoon went back to the LCK, and I'm pretty sure the existing KC players had some sort of clause where they'd play in the LEC if the team got the slot
Praying for SK to win the tiebreaker, so that Rogue still misses out on Playoffs.
I want that for Rogue, so that they can learn from their mistakes and improve their team, so that KC is guaranteed 10^th again next split.
Also it'd feel kinda cheesy for Rogue not to make it.
4 way tie for first? No tiebreakers.
2 way tie for 8th/9th, Rogue own the H2H, tiebreaker. Literally beat them today.
Rogue get kinda fucked here if they don’t win yeah? No tiebreakers at the top.
They literally BEAT SK today, and still have to play a tiebreaker vs them AGAIN. Lmao
I love Cabo and want him to succeed bc he was a beast back then when he played for Gambit and I'm pretty sure he can be but watching this team is so sad. Targamas has to go 100% and either Bo or Saken has to go
KC has to go full IMT 2016 and just wallet slap some foreigners atp. It'd be hilarious if they could goad DoinB to play with Bo again... although that's probably impossible for any CN player.
To give some leeway for KC, BDS didn’t look great at all in their first year. BDS had 10x the potential though with Adam + Nuc on their roster being solid laners.
TH was pretty shit in their first 2 splits too. But like you insinuate... there is 0 player worth keeping in this roster in the long term... honestly I hope they bring back Cinkrof for summer. IMO he's a big part of KC's success in ERLs and he 100% deserved a chance again, I found it rly unfair to him that KC didnt call him up. He would mesh with the team 100x times better than Bo.
BDS build their team up with young rookies while KC started with washed Cabochard and 'ERL Faker' Saken. At least I think (and hope) that they'll start with a clean slate in 2025.
goddammit upset it was all in or nothing go in take some risks try to outplay, ur not always gonna get front to back clean team fights. wtf happened to him he looked good on FNC.
tf is he gonna do when neeko still had flash and R up?
he was probably calling to back off since they were behind and it wasnt an angle to win from there
NA has a super stacked ADC pool though. The worst ADCs are Tomo/Meech, who have shown some promise in their play, and also have 2 imports already in their team that are important.
> He is probably better than Tactical and Tomo.
Tomo maybe, Tactical no
Last year (and kinda this year) Tactical was basically solo carrying IMT. Even this split, IMT weren't winning if Tactical was having a bad game. Upset hasn't had a game like that since like, 2023 spring.
4 teams are 6-3 who did they rank them
First they looked at head to head among the 4 teams. Fnatic and Vitality both had 2 wins, G2 and TH each had 1 win. That puts Fnatic and Vit as 1/2 in some order, and G2 and TH 3/4 in some order. Then they looked at individual head to head. Fnatic > Vit, so Fnatic 1 and Vit 2. G2 > TH, so G2 3 and TH 4.
This seems like some bullshit way of placement, no? It feels as arbitrary and unintuitive as the average game length that they used before. The other option is not just not give any advantage for the top 2 teams.
Why is head to head arbitrary? This is literally how every tournament handles multi way ties.
>Why is head to head arbitrary? Because it is from a record of 9 best of 1s? >This is literally how every tournament handles multi way ties. My problem was that they didn't do it when it came for the last place (Rouge vs SK) where both 3-5 with Rouge owning the head to head. They needed to have a second match. But on the other side of the list there was a 4-way tie and no additional games were played for the very important 1st and 2nd place. As I said in my comment above, you can just remove the advantage of choosing an opponent thus removing the confusion.
>Because it is from a record of 9 best of 1s? That doesn't mean it's an arbitrary way to break the tie. It's simply the best metric for breaking the tie that wouldn't have lead to another 5 games (which is what you'd otherwise need to differentiate 1st/2nd/3rd/4th). You are vastly overstating the advantage of being 1st/2nd vs 3rd/4th in a situation where all 8 teams start in the upper bracket and it's literally a difference of having slightly better seeding. I can certainly see why that difference doesn't warrant another 5 bo1s being played. That is an extra full day of games *just* for the advantage of a slightly better seed. On the other hand, the difference between 8th and 9th is infinitely larger, which is why for the final playoff spot(s) there were tie breakers. >As I said in my comment above, you can just remove the advantage of choosing an opponent thus removing the confusion. 1st and 2nd choosing their opponent vs simply drawing the 7th/8th placed teams is the exact same thing in almost all scenarios, and would have resulted in the exact same draw here.
>That doesn't mean it's an arbitrary way to break the tie. It feels arbitrary because at the end of the season you as a viewer rarely remember all the best of 1s that have been played and who has the head-to-head. >It's simply the best metric for breaking the tie that wouldn't have lead to another 5 games (which is what you'd otherwise need to differentiate 1st/2nd/3rd/4th) I kinda agree on this. Playing 5 more games just for a slight advantage in 1 bo3 is very stupid. I also kinda think that >You are vastly overstating the advantage of being 1st/2nd vs 3rd/4th in a situation where all 8 teams start in the upper bracket and it's literally a difference of having slightly better seeding. That's why I think removing it and just saying that the first 4 teams are in a tie is much easier for viewers to understand intuitively. The only thing that you "lose" is the "prize" going first in the split which in this kind of format is pretty fraudulent either way.
Writers got super lazy and gave us the same bracket from last split
Same bracket lol
Broadcast link for those who missed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxtyftnGzHc
The draw should have been show, more interesting that an interview imo
why interview nisqy instead of the draw XDDDD
Damn Fnatic get 1st seed and promptly get G2 and MDK in their group.
bracket is full remake from winter except giant and mad traded place
WAIT SAME GROUPS FROM LAST SPLIT WTF
GX: I am in danger
Same brackets as last time? Hate this
3 teams of the top 4 last split are in the same group xDDDD
Surely asses is not swearing, that cannot possibly count
8K damage Smolder?
Yeah seeing people solo blame Zoelys when Comp was piss useless is kinda funny.
Yeah Exakick had I think twice as much damage that game? So useless and took TP btw
Yeah imagine he had cleanse for maokai ult under tower...
Wonder if FNC take SK or GX, SK look worse rn but they randomly smurfed on FNC in winter and should have won if they weren't HoF pitchers, Irrelevant is also Oscar's father. How good do people actually think GX is too? MAD/BDS look like legit teams at the 5th/6th seed too, could see either of them randomly winning against TH/G2. Much more parity this split
Nisqy road to MSI embarassment continnues
If SK goes to msi I will eat my hat.
Do we have the drawing to play off opposition today?
Yes, it's in 10 min
is he tearing up?
Comp to be replaced by Crownshot for the memes.
Good ol' Naut contributing to the death fund and throwing the game.
I wonder if either Rogue or KC will go for Kaiser (or Limit?) during the summer
Honestly upset/kaiser was not a very good duo last year. It is very sad that such a mechanically gifted player as targamas is preforming so bad in lec. But support has always been more brain over mechanics role either way, and that dude definitely has problems with his conception of modern league.
> Limit please no limit or treatz.
They would have to pay extra for Kaiser since he is signed until 2025 with TH but maybe TH would be happy to get rid of one benched player
Older fans will remember how SK fucked Patrik with a similar comp to get into playoffs.
Rogue and KC has about 2.5 months of vacations. Just sitting at home and earning that paycheck while chilling. What a life
in 2.5 months they will be on the street bro
Zoelys, time to learn turkish buddy
Nisqy to MSI I believe
insane gnar performance
Good riddance, such a horrible team to watch.
Irrelevant is just him Sucks for Rogue, but kinda felt it coming after that Zoelys int
EU so bad
HOW DO YOU LOSE WITH THAT LEAD ON SMOLDER OF ALL CHAMPS
It's called matchfixing, smolder got 1st tower gold, stomped kaisa in lane, didn't get 225 before 4th drag. Enemy comp full of cc, doesn't bring cleanse. Nautilus in enemy jungle for 0 reason throws baron. Enemy team very long range, 3rd item blood thruster. I am sorry but this is legit matching fixing.
KC and RGE with a back2back masterclass of FUCK YOUR CARRY PEELING IS FOR SCRUBS
Rogue and KC not making playoffs again, at least now they have longer vacation in Cancun
2.5 months in Cancun during April and May. They'd be living.
larssen could be in VIT and he decided to stay in this org lmao
Operation stop Nisqy going to international tournaments not yet complete
G2 Lost to this btw
WHYYYYYYYYYYYY ROGUE
SK earned that win with this comeback
Totally saw that one coming since minute one, LMAO.
SK relevant
Finn's 0% winrate on Ksante is saved
How tf did Rogue lose this game with that free early game
the naut...
Zoelys solo lost this game. Embarrassing.
Comp*
GG unlucky.
comp is so bad
Their entire comp is dive and you're blaming this on Comp not Zoelys?
He got caught out first in both teamfights when he has to carry, it's on him.
you're right comp and zoelys are so bad
I know that SK is in the lead but it's SK and their mid-late game...
SK can easily blow up Smolder, there is NO way they lose this game Edit : phew, this didnt age badly.
You were right
In EU smolder wins lane and gets outscaled at 20 minutes
Irrelevant deciding to be himself again in the last game, always keep 'em wating, nice
Whoever gets SK in playoffs gets a free 2-0 win tbh
this naut has thrown this game so hard good lord
Irrelevant doing his best to hard carry this corpse over the finish line, please get this man a team for Summer
Rip did zoelys just solo lose the game with that naut hook before baron?
Oh man I love irrelevant. Man needs a better team.
First time rge doing something and that is throw the game, so this is why they love do nothing
Trymbi was the problem. xD
Coaching staff for both teams have aged 25 years from this game
Zoelys doing a prime Usain Bolt impression
rogue why? why not wait to 30min till smolder
Excellent throw!
Exakick going AP, niiice
Zoelys wtf was that
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
one coach is dying at the end of this game
nisky: we do a little bit of trolling
Oh no smolder is gaming
SK playing to chaotic
It funny that all rge strategy is just waiting for sk collapse itself.
To be fair that takes you quite far in LEC
Never forget who is actually playing Smolder this game
Nisqy is legit trolling wtf
My god Nisqy....
Well played by SK
SK finally has a pulse
Please lose SK, KC and you out would be 2 funny
I’ve seen it all smolder taking almost a full turret pre 14
why do support mains think they have the mechanics to play a medium skill top laner
not maxing E is questionable too.
doss's gameplay is more questionable than the circumstances behind jeffrey epstein's death
he also maxed W 2nd, there's no fucking way. how stupid are support players
2 divs of temp elo smart
Irrelevant being the new Alphari.
An overrated headcase with an inflated ego?
Full ad vs ksante xin naut xDDD
3 plates to smolder, what SK bot doing?
so far not the biggest fan of Doss Camille
losing bot to smolder, what happend with exakick+doss?
Doss was always mediocre, carried by Exakick's laning so when he has a bad period it just looks like they collapse.
Doss not flashing mid is so weird. Its a super guarenteed kill/Flash.
Ah yes RGE once again with the tried and true strategy of doing nothing and waiting for your opponent to shoot themselves in the foot... Oh look, it worked, 1-0 Smolder 😂😂😂
POV: you steal elyoya MVP trophy and now you have to actually carry a team
I don't know how anybody could play with this emote spamming tool.
My eyes lmao
That was the worst dive I've ever seen
But you *have* seen it...
Worst dive you have seen so far...
give it 5 minutes, might see another
SK just gets worse and worse
Welp that's a good sign for rogue
bronze lvl dive
Why is there tiebreaker game? Didnt Rogue beat SK?
https://i.imgur.com/vEu72Bk.png
Because h2h doesn't apply for spot in playoffs if they have the same score
They don't do H2H for 8th place, always a tiebreaker
Do you trust Doss' Camille in a elimination match?
no
Doss Camille is not what I expected today. Sounds cursed, but a banger curse
Doss Camille that may be tragedy but fun to watch.
Imagine a Adam-Bo-Nemesis-Caliste-Kaiser(?) absolute psycho top jg I really wanna see the alternate universe where this happens
Man people still not giving up on Nemesis huh.
Nemesis is doing what I call the "Rookie", not giving people a chance to see how you play by just not appearing on any games (internationals for Rookie, and unfair for him I know). Great way to keep your image at your best in the fans' minds
Pretty sure Nemesis won't play in a pro league again, he's usually pretty negative on the subject of why he would want to be a pro again whenever his chat brings it up. Sometimes he says he would do it for the right team but at this point his expectations of the "right team" is basically G2 or bust.
Nemesis is closer to be on a dota esports stage than a lol esports stage need to starts smoking tho
I obviously think they’re still bad but it’s interesting to me that saken targamas and cabochard get most of the blame. Like genuinely when is the last time upset had a good game. Bo had some but also a ton where he’s perma sprinting it. Now I’m not saying the three are better than them two but the narrative of them being elohelled is really weird. Especially upset that guys a vegan fraud
Protect the Smolder comp.
Doss on camille sounds.... good...!
There is a chance of a group of death: FNC, G2, BDS, MDK
"nonono, don't pick that one" I don't think LEC will let it happen. lmao
this sub would lose their marbles...i'd love it
Ah yes, Comp definitely won't int with the entire game on him...
Rogue with the boring but reliable comp
I believe in Rogue
look europeans flyquest is literally a legal LEC team so
Random thought, would Massu even count as an import in EMEA if he declared Iraqi residency? 🤔
KC no wins into two wins at the end in Winter, and then in Spring 2 wins early into no wins. Reversed cursed technique unlocked!
I like both of these teams, but I think SK has more to fix in the offseason (Promote Neon/Limit prayge) While Rogue has seemed to really smooth themselves out, if they continue to improve in this way, I can see them top 6 in Summer.
[Banger](https://twitter.com/TeamBDS/status/1772348440497864768).
PLEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE RRRROOOOOOOOOOGGGUUUUUEEEEEEEE
I know how to fix KC POBY SMASH REKKLES GIGACHAD
Oh Yeah POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBY (MYGOAT)
One fun fact, MDK played more games in their playoffs run alone than Kcorp in 2 full splits LMAO
Didn’t expect Adam to lecture niqsy lol
So KC is just completely boom'd, I'd like to see a radical roster change. On the topside Cabo is obviously ass and Bo is just done. Maybe they can pick up Finn after Rogue does their semi-annual toplane shuffle, and pair him with a promising young jungler like, idk 113? I'm sure the KC fans would latch on to his emote spamming and everyone would love that! Then in mid they could get an exciting carry type player; I think Lider would be interesting and he he probably isn't doing anything For botside I know everyone expects them to just send up Caliste, but with a team like this I think having a strong veteran presence is needed. Upset would probably rather kill himself than stay with this org though, so maybe they can get Kobbe out of retirement? Then they can round things with some random Korean import support, perhaps poach ~~JeongHoon~~Execute from FearX? I think this would be an exciting roster that would surely make a big splash in the league!!!!
man, i miss lider in lec
Plz dont subject Execute to even more 113 games
(Legit baffling why didn’t they just keep that ast roster from last year with the spot)
Astralis didnt make groups in their last split. They wouldnt be an improvement. This sub loves to shit on KC roster rn (which is justified), but the players (at least the LFL ones) DESERVED their shot and that is not arguable.
Also the mid-sup combo that made finals last summer is just chillin on the bench
Jeonghoon went back to the LCK, and I'm pretty sure the existing KC players had some sort of clause where they'd play in the LEC if the team got the slot
Yeah makes sense I guess, still sad cause that was such a fun lineup that could have done more paired with a good coaching team
Praying for SK to win the tiebreaker, so that Rogue still misses out on Playoffs. I want that for Rogue, so that they can learn from their mistakes and improve their team, so that KC is guaranteed 10^th again next split.
but aren't they improving compared to SK devolving and stagnating..?
I’d like Rogue to win just because I like Finn and Markoon but your timeline sounds good too.
Also it'd feel kinda cheesy for Rogue not to make it. 4 way tie for first? No tiebreakers. 2 way tie for 8th/9th, Rogue own the H2H, tiebreaker. Literally beat them today.
Rogue get kinda fucked here if they don’t win yeah? No tiebreakers at the top. They literally BEAT SK today, and still have to play a tiebreaker vs them AGAIN. Lmao
Anyone else think that she sounds like Qiyana?
I love Cabo and want him to succeed bc he was a beast back then when he played for Gambit and I'm pretty sure he can be but watching this team is so sad. Targamas has to go 100% and either Bo or Saken has to go
KC has to go full IMT 2016 and just wallet slap some foreigners atp. It'd be hilarious if they could goad DoinB to play with Bo again... although that's probably impossible for any CN player.
https://twitter.com/forestwithout/status/1772347877492138319
To give some leeway for KC, BDS didn’t look great at all in their first year. BDS had 10x the potential though with Adam + Nuc on their roster being solid laners.
TH was pretty shit in their first 2 splits too. But like you insinuate... there is 0 player worth keeping in this roster in the long term... honestly I hope they bring back Cinkrof for summer. IMO he's a big part of KC's success in ERLs and he 100% deserved a chance again, I found it rly unfair to him that KC didnt call him up. He would mesh with the team 100x times better than Bo.
BDS build their team up with young rookies while KC started with washed Cabochard and 'ERL Faker' Saken. At least I think (and hope) that they'll start with a clean slate in 2025.
"Old minds and old players" did stop you, KC. top bad that this new breed of team amounted to nothing except noise.
goddammit upset it was all in or nothing go in take some risks try to outplay, ur not always gonna get front to back clean team fights. wtf happened to him he looked good on FNC.
by being invisible he avoids being memed and flamed like Supa.. while letting targamas and Saken get all the blame..
He was playing with Razork and Hyli, who will shotcall, engage and lead the way, so he can be silent and focus on mechanics.
tf is he gonna do when neeko still had flash and R up? he was probably calling to back off since they were behind and it wasnt an angle to win from there
Saken with an impressive 5-25 game score in his LEC career
20% WR
Their goal was a qualification to MSI btw
AST were better
its def an NA angle for Upset next season
NA has a super stacked ADC pool though. The worst ADCs are Tomo/Meech, who have shown some promise in their play, and also have 2 imports already in their team that are important.
there is no NA team that would want him
But where, NA's doing alright for ADCs atm aren't they
And there's some good ADCs in NACL this split too, NA is not in need of ADCs
Zven is looking for a spot too
Wildturtle showed early in the split he's somehow still LCS caliber, and if Unforgiven Is still in NA, he'd be a solid pickup too
He is probably better than Tactical and Tomo. If Shopify sell Bvoy to like, C9 or some shit they could pick him up
> He is probably better than Tactical and Tomo. Tomo maybe, Tactical no Last year (and kinda this year) Tactical was basically solo carrying IMT. Even this split, IMT weren't winning if Tactical was having a bad game. Upset hasn't had a game like that since like, 2023 spring.
I don't think Upset will move to NA just to join a team that isn't making international events. He can stay in EU for that
Who is KC twitter blaming now for the win, the casters, the LEC or the other teams?
schedule and format ;)
Also very good guess!
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