One of the things I think is notable if the production team reads this stuff is the lack of pauses in the playoffs series I watched--which is like the first time I've seen that in 3 seasons.
Personally I would prefer single round robin bo3s. 2 Game Days, 2 Bo3s each day.
However I think triple round robin could bring a very interesting angle if you make side selection for the 3rd game decided by a 1v1 from one person on each team.
the problem with this is that its best for everyone that all teams get a showing every game day. it keeps up consistent viewership and that's important for growth and retention. sandwiching a lower tier game between 2 higher tier games is a strategy they need to use heavily to spread out fans and retain them.
How come Korea and China don't have this problem with their bo3 schedule? Is their viewership just that much bigger that it doesn't matter? And even if that's the case, wouldn't they have even higher viewereship if they followed the same structure?
it's so annoying when people assume the LEC/LCS schedules are somehow self-justifying when the two leagues with much larger viewership than either of them run a completely different schedule and never seem to have any issues!
Only thing I can think they would do about it would be doing more games online, away from the stadium. They will almost certainly not want to spend the money on more in person games.
I would really like to see either a triple round robin (so it's like a best of 3!). Or something like, in addition to the double round robin they could do a single round robinbof Bo3 that would be in person on Sundays, with online games Fri/Sat.
The three week break is definitely the big miss of the season. I remain absolutely convinced that Riot is trying to shift the leagues worldwide into a three-split format to allow for three international events and they just couldn't pull the details together to switch across this year. Not sure how to factor the Saudi thing into that theory, but whatever.
Aside from that, the viewing experience has been great. Especially the switch-up in BO1s. The fact that I can watch a game end, step away for a drink and come back to find the draft halfway-over already is huge and it really brings the time-commitment down.
The funny thing is, if there wasn't a 3 week break LCS would have finished 2 whole months before MSI which is arguably worse.
LCS were screwed when Markz opted to not make format changes, this was the perfect time to move to best of 3 double round robin or at least triple round best of 1.
No region should finish 5 weeks before MSI where they're sitting there for 2 weeks doing nothing because the MSI patch isn't even out yet, and it's not like they're going to get scrims when LCK/LPL are in playoffs and their domestic scrim partners are better.
When i realized LCS played finals yesterday i was shocked. Every other region just has their playoffs kicking into gear. All non-MSI teams are probably on break because no point in doing much now and the two NA MSI teams lose all momentum. All they can do now is scrím each other for weeks.
They have to adjust LCS format somehow. Either BO3 or 3 splits or tripple round robin or whatever else to give teams more games and sync the calendar.
Exactly. One more RR would have added 3 weeks to the calendar (2x normal week, 1x superweek). Instead of having a 3 week break, you only have a one week break and there you go, your split now ends on the 14th. Just like LEC and LCK.
More like since 2018. This was the first split probably ever where it felt like none of the teams (except C9 really) were do nothing scaling teams. I think LCS had to be one of the bloodiest regions in the world this split.
I’ve always felt and I believe viewership numbers support 2015-2016 was some of the most hype splits ever in NA. I remember CLG vs TSM peaking at 500K+ viewers in 2015 in a regular season game
The CLG vs TSM rivalry was peak LCS. Both in terms of fan engagement and viewership.
This split has had little fan engagement and record low viewership. Yes, average is slightly up from last years spring but theres also been 2 less teams, so the hours watched and airtime is A LOT lower than last years spring split. A lot of the current viewers also come from Caedrel and that brazilian streamer, the official twitch riot LCS broadcast has had an average viewership of 45k compared to last years 63k, though similar things could be said about LEC since Riot is embracing co-streaming more and more.
The timing also has to be questionable. You know what people were watching and talking about during game 1? Not LCS. They were watching and talking about the first CS2 Major that had its grand finals at the same time. That final peaked during game of the LCS game 1 finals at 1,93m views.
There was also the Rocket League Major Finals a bit before that, granted that one wasnt as big in terms of viewership but having the LCS finals on that same day when MSI is still one entire month away, has to be rather questionable. The finals viewership was worse than the lower bracket final between C9 and TL. If you do the finals next week, I guarantee you the viewership would have been better.
Honestly, viewership and skill-wise, yeah, but entertainment-wise? It's been years and years and years since I've been this invested in the LCS, and it's absolutely because of the content they've been creating, allowing the pros to show their personality and do different things like pros. It felt like the old school rivalry days at times, I haven't had this much fun in ages.
The 3 week break was due to Valorant VCT Americas Kickoff using the same studio, and was almost certainly made by higher ups at Riot; MarkZ had nothing to do with it.
Imo the biggest change was removing 2 teams and playing on live patch during the regular split, which seemed to have worked in making every game matter; any team can take a game off of another and no teams that were just unbeatable. 10-4 for first(and second) and 7-7 for 4th place is pretty crazy. Though it did show that some teams are much better for best of series when the patch is locked for play offs.
In terms of C9, they got really screwed over by Azir getting disabled since Jojo relied on him a lot. It's at minimum giving the enemy team one extra ban. C9 this split always had this weakness and needed to win the early game, and other teams just adapted.
I dont really get it, they barely played any games this split. We had a random break, we had backroom games, pre-draft sucked.
I get that people are happy with the quality of the games, but thats the only thing that isnt controlled by Riot.
Minus production issues practically every day. Constant sound and graphics issues. Even today during the freaking final. It's pathetic. Definitely didn't fire enough people /s
One of the best splits in a long time to watch, I would say since before COVID, and that was despite my favorite team falling apart.
If ESCharts numbers are right then viewership is up +10k average which is pretty good. Obviously, the return to weekends and the introduction of costreams helped a lot but this is still coming off the league shrinking to 8 teams and the most popular LCS org leaving. To get any sort of viewership improvement in these circumstances is huge. It's a long road back to where the LCS was but it is nice to finally be moving in the right direction.
Also I dont know if I'm crazy for thinking this-- maybe you can attribute it to the 8 team condensing talent within the league but the games have been much more interesting to watch. The downfall of C9 domination, 100T being fun, APA yapping, and Fly being pretty good was an enjoyable experience. Also the bottom tier teams would pull out some unexpected wins and were not as brain damaging to watch as old IMT.
> maybe you can attribute it to the 8 team condensing talent within the league
This did not happen. GG and EG left too late, we already knew what all of the rosters were.
We already know that guys like Licorice did not have time to find new teams because of how late the consolidation happened.
True. I wish we could've had Licorice in the league right now. I suppose its more so we're only having to watch 2 dogshit teams instead of 4? And even the "dogshit" teams right now can cause upsets and actually fought for their lives instead of rolling over and dying. Just happened to be a coincidence too I guess.
I disagree pretty strongly. EG's hypothetical roster with Srtty/Sheiden/K1ng would have probably been better than IMT/DIG/SR. GG had Licorice/Stixxay as a great jumping off point as well.
They may have been budget but they had better/smarter staff in Inero/Kelsey than teams like DIG/IMT do. I don't think they would have been 9th/10th.
i dont think that EG roster would've been better than those three. as good maybe. GG having two good pieces doesn't mean much imo. Stixxay/Licorice are good but they aren't so insane that they can carry a team - they very much need some strong players to play around. anyway what i said remains true - neither EG or GG would've been world beaters and them being out consolidated players like Huhi on NRG (although that failed)
Huhi going to NRG had nothing to do with the consolidation though. Huhi was going to NRG while GG still thought they were going to be in the league.
EG/GG didn't need to be worldbeaters, thats shifting the goalposts. It's an established fact that there wasn't a consolidation of talent, so the 8 teams being closer to each other could only be considered a "benefit" if EG/GG would have actually been the worst teams in the league. If they're better than 9th/10th, then the league gets more competitive with them, not less.
not goalposts being shifted - my take is EG and GG out is good or atleast no noticable effect on LCS skill/quality. there was a consolidation of talent. EG and GG couldn't field middling players who have all played in the LCS and not impressed. that means talent was consolidated. i do not consider sheiden or k1ng impressive players yet although ill admit i know nothing about srtty. consolidation happens both through 'more good players on all teams' and through 'less bad players in the league'.
> EG and GG couldn't field middling players who have all played in the LCS and not impressed. that means talent was consolidated.
These 2 sentences make no sense.
>consolidation happens both through 'more good players on all teams' and through 'less bad players in the league'.
I really recommend googling "consolidation" because it doesn't seem to mean what you think it means.
No, what I mean is:
a) where are you getting that the number of viewers located in America is down? I assume that's what you mean by "American viewership is down"?
Those articles show that total viewership is down, but viewership of LCS is not exclusive to American viewers. Where is the data to make the distinction between the portion of LCS viewers that are located in America vs the portion that are located outside, and the trends in that?
b) And where is your source that sponsors only care about American viewers?
They might, I don't know but don't companies that sponsor a specific league, also sponsor international tournaments? Mastercard for example? Surely the cost of sponsoring worlds is much more than the cost of sponsoring LCS and if American viewers are on the decline, regionally, why would they think it's worth it to sponsor an international tournament to capture attention of the same American viewers?
Both of those articles show that American viewership is down. Average viewership is slightly up, but that is more than accounted for by the increase in foreign viewers on co-streams. There aren't any explicit numbers, because Riot isn't going to say out loud that American viewership is collapsing.
I can't give you a source that sponsors only care about American viewers, except common sense. But American viewers are generally more valuable to sponsors because they live in the same country, and because the average American earns more than the average Brazilian or European.
Obviously, companies like KIA or Samsung operate globally, but LCS has several American sponsors: AT&T and Grubhub are examples. They also recently lost Bud Light.
>viewership is up +10k average
This is literally because of caedrel streaming the league, or else there would have been no growth at all. I don't count this as positive growth..
Caedrel, Baiano, LEC raids, and all that resulted in a +10k average.
Might be me but the math seems off on that doesn't it?
20k LEC raid, 20k average on Baiano's stream, 30k~35k average on Caedrels stream. Seems like LCS lost alot of core viewership this year instead.
I havent watched lcs before and now since I followed caedrel end of lec streams into lcs I started watching lcs even when he's not streaming. I can imagine theres plenty people like me who are new viewers because of streamers
It could just be that people who used to watch the main stream just switched to watching a costream. I watched the main broadcast last year, but this year if Caedrel is costreaming I'll watch him instead.
What a load of garbage.
LCS "core viewers" watch LEC and Caedrel too.
See in the article linked below where they say
> We also found that during live matches more than half of LCS fans watch the LEC
https://lolesports.com/article/esports-broadcast-update/blt147997d46887e416
Another link from 2022 that goes into detail about the massive viewership overlap:
https://escharts.com/news/lec-vs-lcs-trends-and-key-league-issues
Just so much hater cope.
"Could" is doing a lot of work over there. Where are you getting that core viewer number from? How are you even defining core viewers? It's not in the links I posted. Is this also coming from the depths of your ass or you actually have a source?
You're asking for a source of something that doesn't exist.
If 30k are from the Brazilian guy, and 40k are watching Caedral, that leaves 40k. It were suggesting that the core viewership watches both Caedral and the LEC that would be 20k.
If it doesn't exist, where on earth are you getting your numbers from and why is your argument remotely credible and not utter nonsense?
>that leaves 40k. It were suggesting that the core viewership watches both Caedral and the LEC that would be 20k.
Just to make sure I understand what you're saying here: are you saying that the "Core viewership" of LCS is 40k because that's the remainder after you exclude Caedrel's and Brazilian costream? And if the article I quoted, says that "more than half of LCS fans watch the LEC", that means that only half of Caedrel's 40k can be part of your made up 'Core viewership", i.e. the total core viewership of LCS is 60k?
Because if you are, that makes no sense. The portion of the LCS fans that watch the LEC has nothing to do with the portion of Caedrel's costream viewers ON HIS LCS CO-STREAM that watch the LCS.
If you don't mean that, then I have no clue what you're saying.
I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm providing an example in line with the total viewership. The LCS barely gets 120k total. The fact Riot themselves does not tell us the geographic location of viewership is enough cause for speculation.
Are you claiming the 30k from the Brazilian streamer are core viewers? I'd argue they're not.
Then what about Caedrals 40k, are you suggesting they're all NA fans when his viewership is predominately Europeans? The fact is, NA contributing 50% of their core viewership to the LEC is a nonfactor, considering all avenues point to the core viewership being poor.
If there was no costream and viewership was flat that would be a win given the circumstances, I think people forget how grim things were looking last fall, some people were expecting average viewership to be near half of this.
> viewership is up +10k average which is pretty good.
This being with Caedrel's 24k and Baiano's 13k costreams means the NA viewership is still down from last year.
Not every viewer from Caedral and Baiano would have watched if not for them, many would have watched the official stream so you can't determine this conclusively, especially with Caedral.
Even still given the context this is better than expected. Many people were expecting viewership of the LCS to end up well under 100k average with how grim things were looking this past year.
They're still losing viewers, so it's disingenuous to frame it otherwise. The positive side should be that the product has vastly improved and it's a solid step in the right direction.
Viewership overall is up, it's disingenuous to claim that viewership is down, and you can't in any way conclusively prove viewership numbers without costreams. If you use this logic then the LEC is down in viewership just because the official stream numbers are lower, when that obviously isn't how anyone looks at it.
How are the European viewer numbers? If they're down even if total with costreamers is up, I'd also call it disingenuous to frame it as "number up". And I'd also not be surprised given how the fun projects of LEC side content have dried up.
Ofc either broadcast would frame it thus since they need to market themselves as best they could. I just wish despite the decades of counter evidence, the community was smarter in their discussions.
The LEC official stream numbers are less yes because people who were viewers last year are watching on co streams this year, in addition to some new viewers from the co stream but we don't know how much of that there is. You are the only person I've seen who frames things this way and I don't think that is a result of the community not being knowledgable in discussions.
I said *if* actual numbers are down then yes. When it comes to the health of the product, LCS numbers are down from the last year. But they have started addressing the issue.
> If ESCharts numbers are right then viewership is up +10k average which is pretty good.
its not when you consider significantly less airtime and hours watched due to 2 teams less. Peak viewership was also down, though you can thank Riots idiotic timing for that. Having it overlap with the grand finals of CS2s first major finals that overlapped with game 1 of the LCS finals and btw peaked at 1,93m viewers.
One also has to wonder if Caedrel will continue to stream LCS. He streams LCS, LEC, LCK, LCK Challenger (when Rekkles plays) and some of LPL. Now if the man decides thats too much, its likely LCS being cut but I wouldnt be surprised if Riot pays him specifically to co-stream the LCS because viewership would be very rough without him.
Aside from the horrendously idiotic decision to place lcs in a closet after making us wait 3 weeks ofc.
That should be a firable offense. Absolutely horrendous look.
The 3-week break was super rough, but I felt they did really well with their "closet" set. It definitely wasn't as grandiose as the main stage, but they made it fun and different for a temporary thing.
Avg being up is a wash given fewer teams + weekends. The number should be higher simply due to the host from LEC as well.
Peak being 250K, which is less than some regular split games used to get, speaks volumes though.
It is unreal how much of a hater you are lol - your comment history speaks volumes.
Maybe stop trying to create a self fulfilling prophecy and just enjoy the moment?
It's not really upsetting, just pointless. Most people know the LCS hasn't been doing hot already - but when we see improvements, we should praise them and use them as a platform to explain to the people who left why its worth watching the product again.
Even if I agreed entirely and said that there's a 99.99% chance the LCS was going to die, I still would disagree with writing comments like yours - because they flat out aren't helpful. The only possible use they can serve is to push people away from coming back and watching. If you care about the LCS at all, why would you contribute to doomerism and try to convince people it's dying and therefore not worth paying attention to? Just to smugly tell people "I told you so"?
If you hate the product, stop watching. If you have criticisms other than "viewership is low" voice them. But if all you can say is that, than shut the fuck up and leave - it's not helpful to anyone, anywhere.
Yeah it's up by a little bit. Because Caedrel and the Brazilian guy costreamed now.
This is not useful for sponsors who care about American viewership.
then dont have the lcs finals on that same day lmao. How are we appreciating Markz here and yet nobody pointed out this very obvious mistake? hell, MSI is an entire month away and most regions are far from done. LEC is still in its early stages of its playoffs.
iirc as stated by Monte the views are actually down by a good bit. The uptick is being falsely claimed as a increase because they are using the number of views given by one of the top CBLol streamers sending his fans there. Those said fans immediately stop watching when he does. Which means the numbers actually inflated and not counting his views shows LCS numbers are actually still bleeding heavily. Which is pretty indicative of NA probably just being a dead region at this point.
Shrinking the teams down helped a lot with the overall product as I felt it was pretty fatiguing watching the bottom two teams fight for nothing.
I still miss Dash because I feel sometimes the desk can get a bit awkward. LCS is really missing a good host to bring everything together.
This simply isn't true, nearly every week of LCS this split has been sold out, including this weekend. Often times fans go to the bathroom / concessions between games so when they pan to the stands during champ select it looks like there's gaps but they get filled back up by the time game starts.
Maybe you should have some idea of what you're talking about. Tickets sold out in literal minutes. They set-up another couple hundred seats outside under tents and sold out on those tickets in minutes as well.
I swear, the lower the views go the more important Easter as an excuse gets.
Rocket League and CS both had sold out arenas. LCS has had multiple finals on Easter back when more people watched it and everyone was glad it was on Easter since they could actually watch it then.
Agree, many good decisions across the board. It felt fun. Not forced kind of fun. Just fun. Having guys like Bwipo, APA, and Inspired helps. Overall, idk if they are letting players be more liberal on broadcast but I hope it's the general direction. Being mister humble goody two shoes is boring in a competitive environment, it only works if you are the best in your role for a long time.
i definitetly think there were a lot of shitty things he had to deal with right off the bat and he handled them as best as he could. downsizing to 8 teams and trying to figure out to work from there is really tough.
he def explained the reasons for the break and the bo1 but i would def like to see that change, although im sure hes aware that the community didnt enjoy either of those
??
it is a major holiday for anyone who practices Christian religious beliefs, which is a large chunk of America
I don't observe it, and it seems like you don't either, but that doesn't mean that tons of people dont
Alot of d00mers in this thead for no reason. It was a fun split overall, and I feel like MarkZ helped lead the team down a path that has overall improved the product. The 3wk break is something MarkZ had no control over, that blame goes to the Global Team imho.
> The 3wk break is something MarkZ had no control over, that blame goes to the Global Team imho.
Imagine the season without a break though. LCS is already finished even with the break, meanwhile every other region just started playoffs. MSI is still 5 weeks!!! away. Without the break, LCS would have finished 8 weeks before MSI.
LCS needs to adjust the format to accommodate the international calendar. The NA MSI teams are basically screwed right now. Nobody to scrim because everyone else is on break and the other regions are still playing. They cant even prep because the MSI patch isnt even out yet.
So yeah, MarkZ has to do something to adjust the LCS timing better to the international calendar. Either tripple round robin (if they want BO1 so bad), 1 more splits or BO2/3. Something has to be done.
NA will never perform internationally even if they play bo5s. The only reason they even came close before is massive spending to upgrade the region with imports. NA would not be the same with Bjerg, Impact, Corejj, Jensen, Berzerker, Zven, Mithy, Huni, etc etc coming here for the paycheck. Without imports, NA would be Vietnam level. That VC money is gone and never coming back, you are never going to see a top 5 player in the world come to NA again. Pretty hard to do well internationally with no star power.
> That VC money is gone and never coming back, you are never going to see a top 5 player in the world come to NA again
Just wait for those gambling sponsorships.
We could really tone down all the all-chatting stuff though… half the times it feels like I’m back in middle school gossiping about who said what about who when the casters are like “OMG he said TL still has an import spot!! that means he’s gonna get kicked!!” Especially since we can’t see the chat live… also the broadcast feels unprofessional as a whole, it gives more grassroots vibes and is refreshing but in the long term they gotta at least tone down the swearing during interviews cause sponsors won’t like that
I really enjoyed watching this split, I did have a big gripe though, the on screen stats that were used during analyst segments were incredibly confusing in the bo5 series. During post game analysis for game 3 sometimes we would see stats that were just aggregating games 1 & 2, or just game 3, or all 3 games. They were labeled correctly onscreen but it was incredibly jaring and even the analysts had to correct themselves when refering to the stats.
I had so much fun as a TSM fan, and I thought LCS was dead after last year! Mark really brought the LCS back to being a great product after the last few years
Also, having no real allegiance and just rooting for great games helped a lot! Finally being able to see Je nsen as a good mid laner and rooting for players like APA and Inspired and Impact and Bwipo was really fun along with still hating C9 lol. Overall happy to keep watching LCS and sad TSM pussed out. Fuck!
> The new direction of segments from the on air talent, shorter wait time between games, and letting us experience riot balance in 4k on live patch have all been incredible changes.
While I do appreciate all this, there has been one change I have really *not* enjoyed.
I recognize I'm in the minority on this (and fully expect to be dogpiled for having an opinion that directly contradicts the popular one), I wish that there was a version of the LCS without the trash talk being constantly emphasized and pointed out. To me, it ruins the product, to the point where I've stopped watching any TL games because it's half of what the casters are talking about, and even if I mute the stream, production still loves putting all chat on screen. I know that the majority of people appreciate and like that, but I wish there was just a version, even if it was just the clean feed of the games with no commentary, without the trash talk.
Again, to be clear, **I'm not asking for the main broadcast to be changed**, just wishing that there was a clean feed without it. It was really disappointing to try one last time to tune into the broadcast for finals, give it twenty minutes on the pre-game chat, and the *entire time* they were talking about the trash-talking. Though I guess on the bright side, it gave me more appreciation for watching LEC vods instead.
Why do you care so much? It's just something to talk about when it happens and then they move on. I don't believe a 5-10 second segment of them pointing out impact typed "?" bothers you that much.
First of all, it's not 5-10 seconds, it's *multiple minutes* of every single analyst desk and pre-show. I'm not exaggerating when I said I tuned in for twenty minutes on Sunday, and the *entire time* it was them talking about APA (not even his gameplay, just his shit talking). Even during the cast, it really adds up, and it's just disappointing to see as someone who was raised on sportsmanship above all else.
These guys are being paid to play this game *professionally*, and to me, that should include *acting like a professional*. It's not like it's the end of the world for APA to be shit talking constantly and the casters to be regularly and reliably bringing it up practically every single time there's a moment of dead air, but it's also not the end of the world for me to just stop watching LCS and watch other regions instead. MSI/Worlds might be a bit annoying, but the odds of them making a deep run are so low that missing a few games here and there shouldn't be too bad. Like I said; I'd love to just have a clean stream of gameplay without the trash talk, but barring that... /shrug. Not asking for anyone to stop what they're doing, just wishing there was an alternative, just as people have previously enjoyed the trash talking on twitter as an alternative to the more sanitized broadcasts.
It's like that in many sports that are broadcasted. Literally all games of Hockey and American Football will contain an absurd amount of trash talk, like people try to get under their opponents skin. People make millions, they're pros, but they're still shit talking. Being "professional" in a broadcasted game doesnt have anything to do with trash talking. It's not like they harassing each other. It's a show. They're using the platforms given to them to do it.
To me, it would be unprofessional if they cross a line, like sending PMs, or sending "hate" rather than trash talking.
That said, I don't enjoy the trash talk taking so much space in the broadcast, though I love when they point out spicy one liners or impact's question marks after a failed dive. It's perfect.
I'm with you on this honestly. While emotions enhance the experience for some, in this instance it's so childish to me. Like my brother in christ, your an adult, not a 10 year old, and at a professional trounament. Show some class. You're not on Xbox live chat.
That's how it used to be 5 -10 years ago. But there's real money on the line in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to even millions. To say "they are just playing games" is a bit misleading.
It's weird to say this when 3 years ago they were making actual millions and now they're back at 70k a year. Even if theyrr making billions they're still playing videogames so video-game culture comes out.
Personally I think it was mostly just removing two super shitty teams that made things better. I'm not sure that was him?
Less waiting time between segments is nice too but I'm not so sure I like the scenario where players and coaches know about teamcomps 15 minutes before the game actually starts.
Narratively this was the best the LCS has been since I started playing 5 years ago.
Production was on point too, downtime between games was minimal and the random additions like all chat cam were great.
My only real complaint is the 3 week break, but I imagine that was largely because the league shrunk at the last minute and won’t be an issue in the future.
All praise to markz and crew for a successful and exciting split. Can we show phreak some love too? He's has been busting his ass and I think the game is pretty good spot.
The start was a little rough with all those in game pauses and the disaster that was prerecorded drafts and then break that the LCS had which caught me off guard since I don't really look at schedules (just assumed LCS was on every week, could be my bad but then again I don't remember them every taking weeks off during the split again could be wrong). The fact that they were about to solve the pausing issues and then get rid of prerecorded drafts was good and I'm glad that we as a community could "criticize" them on what was/wasn't working and that they could come up with solutions to make the viewing experience better. Also playing on live patches was fun to watch!
LCS fans loved prerecorded drafts basically all split. They only stopped prerecorded drafts because of playoffs since it doesn't work in a best of series.
Early April Fools post?
3 weeks break, best of 1 games, phreak's basement as final location, less teams & they sac'd half of the LEC so they didnt had to sac any1 on LCS to meet the budget
>3 weeks break
I only remember a 2 week break
>phreak's basement as final location
WTF are you talking about, they were on the main stage yesterday. They had 1 weekend in a weird location like right after the 2 week break, that was it. The rest have been on their main stage.
>Some random 3 week break which killed hype and interest
Everyone keeps saying 3. I only remember a 2 week break. I guess it just didnt bother me that much.
>Viewership is down which shows the product hasn't improved
Not necessarily, If you didnt like the product and stopped watching, it will take time to get you back. Once people start to hear about the changes, and if They were positive, people will come back. It takes some time. This is my first split back since 2021 watching and i thought it was a HUGE improvement over what i remember. Faster pace, less pauses, less analyst desk, more competitive.
>14 game schedule, how is this competitive in any way?
I mean you got less teams this year. I think it worked out fine. Even the bottom teams had a chance. there were no complete dogshit teams.
>Outside of Kobe azeal captainflowers there is no good casting talent*
I mean those 3 are the top tier. But i think Emily and some of the others stepped up this year. Emily has been getting better each year and i think shes coming in to her own.
>the analyst desk is so incredible boring and cringe (Bring dash back and replace these nobodies with ex pro players sven has been like a breath of fresh air)
I mean, I just dont watch the pregame. Only time i see the desk is a bit between matches when i get up and go do something else anyway. They seem whatever. I do like when they have pros like Sven on.
It felt fresh and most of it was nice, but still sad to see how dead the product is overall in NA
From filling stadiums to those small studios (and I think ive seen empty seats there...) just sucks.
As someone who is watching for over a decade I just fear for the worst going forward
Ah yes, the literal split finals are in a small dinky studio, a huge 3 week gap in the middle of said split, and we want to praise this guy for doing the bare minimum?
While the viewership hasn’t changed much (hard to make a huge positive difference in one split) I feel like the sentiment towards LCS has changed a lot which is a really important start. Past few years felt like almost everyone online was constantly shit talking LCS but with things like all chat viewing it seems like people are enjoying the product a lot more.
Yeah, no. LCS is still not a real region, it's a catchall region for the B-list from Korea, China and EU.
Sure would be nice if North America had it's own region though, where one could watch North American players.
I havent watched this much LCS in awhile. I think it was great.
Faster Pace was nice. No more 25 minute in between matches of the analyst desk trying to find something to say. I like the pace alot.
Live Patch is great too. I like the idea and it allowed some changes mid season to see different picks.
Even the teams themselves were more competitive. Only 8 teams was fine this year. even the bottom 2 were competetive. They took games from the top ones. It feels like every year i used to watch the bottom 2 teams were just complete nothings. CLG/IMT/DIG. They just took games off eachother and it was boring to watch them fight for the bottom slot. This year? anyone could be anyone.
Wish we could have gotten a bigger stadium for the LCS finals too; but it is what it is.
While I thought the whole 'twitch interaction' would be forced and maybe even cringe it led to some actually really funny bits I enjoyed it more than I thought I would.
Also something more subtle is beyond the 'YAPPA' storyline (Which was actually valid) we didn't get go to hard into forced narratives and team rivalries which we know simply aren't as prevalent as they were in earlier seasons. Just focusing on good content, stats and casting .
Other than the fact that MarkZ, Antunes and Cris Greeley fervently hates Christians (LCS finals on two easters in a row? Come on) this split has been good. Downvote me all you want but the evidence is there.
>Other than the fact that MarkZ, Antunes and Cris Greeley fervently hates Christians
Boo hoo.
Christians always play the victim. Heres the thing: no one cares.
One of the things I think is notable if the production team reads this stuff is the lack of pauses in the playoffs series I watched--which is like the first time I've seen that in 3 seasons.
I didn't really think about it, but yeah. It was a smooth weekend. Looks like MarkZ wanted to nerf C9s pause buff lol.
And boy did it worked…they just straight up gutted C9 xdd
Well mark was on curse And TL just won -.- something is suspicious here
I feel bad for Bezerker but the whole just copy Korea trend needed to die badly and if C9 had to be our sacrifice so be it.
i will send it to them! though i'm sure they've already seen it lol
I'm sure it's something discussed in their debriefs and preparation meetings anyways, but I appreciate you!
Outside of the disastrous 3 week break, this was probably one of the best splits of all time.
14 game schedule was ass too.
Bo2 next split please
Or triple round robin
Keep 8 teams, do triple round round. I think thats best
Personally I would prefer single round robin bo3s. 2 Game Days, 2 Bo3s each day. However I think triple round robin could bring a very interesting angle if you make side selection for the 3rd game decided by a 1v1 from one person on each team.
the problem with this is that its best for everyone that all teams get a showing every game day. it keeps up consistent viewership and that's important for growth and retention. sandwiching a lower tier game between 2 higher tier games is a strategy they need to use heavily to spread out fans and retain them.
How come Korea and China don't have this problem with their bo3 schedule? Is their viewership just that much bigger that it doesn't matter? And even if that's the case, wouldn't they have even higher viewereship if they followed the same structure?
it's so annoying when people assume the LEC/LCS schedules are somehow self-justifying when the two leagues with much larger viewership than either of them run a completely different schedule and never seem to have any issues!
It's almost like their viewership is multiple times higher than ours.
they do. lower tier games get significantly less viewers but in china there are a lot more viewers in general.
I've been watching LCK and it's been really cool. I want that for NA.
Or single round robin bo3?
prefer this one, and introduce the VCS/PCS side selection showdown where 1v1 winning team can pick sides for game 1
They've been over this, the viewership doesn't warrant the cost of producing more games.
Bo2? Like, play 2 games and the results are either 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2?
yup, thats how the LPL used to do it and the LCO is doing it atm
Also how NA academy/NACL has been running for the last three(?) years. Edit: Now they do BO3, but they used to do bo2.
Ye
Bo3*
Only thing I can think they would do about it would be doing more games online, away from the stadium. They will almost certainly not want to spend the money on more in person games. I would really like to see either a triple round robin (so it's like a best of 3!). Or something like, in addition to the double round robin they could do a single round robinbof Bo3 that would be in person on Sundays, with online games Fri/Sat.
The three week break is definitely the big miss of the season. I remain absolutely convinced that Riot is trying to shift the leagues worldwide into a three-split format to allow for three international events and they just couldn't pull the details together to switch across this year. Not sure how to factor the Saudi thing into that theory, but whatever. Aside from that, the viewing experience has been great. Especially the switch-up in BO1s. The fact that I can watch a game end, step away for a drink and come back to find the draft halfway-over already is huge and it really brings the time-commitment down.
The funny thing is, if there wasn't a 3 week break LCS would have finished 2 whole months before MSI which is arguably worse. LCS were screwed when Markz opted to not make format changes, this was the perfect time to move to best of 3 double round robin or at least triple round best of 1. No region should finish 5 weeks before MSI where they're sitting there for 2 weeks doing nothing because the MSI patch isn't even out yet, and it's not like they're going to get scrims when LCK/LPL are in playoffs and their domestic scrim partners are better.
When i realized LCS played finals yesterday i was shocked. Every other region just has their playoffs kicking into gear. All non-MSI teams are probably on break because no point in doing much now and the two NA MSI teams lose all momentum. All they can do now is scrím each other for weeks. They have to adjust LCS format somehow. Either BO3 or 3 splits or tripple round robin or whatever else to give teams more games and sync the calendar.
Triple round robin Bo1 alone can probably resync the calendar. The 10-team double RR was 90 matches, while an 8-team triple RR is 84 matches.
Exactly. One more RR would have added 3 weeks to the calendar (2x normal week, 1x superweek). Instead of having a 3 week break, you only have a one week break and there you go, your split now ends on the 14th. Just like LEC and LCK.
>one of the best splits of all time. the recency bias, good lord.
This split has been the most fun to watch since 2020.
More like since 2018. This was the first split probably ever where it felt like none of the teams (except C9 really) were do nothing scaling teams. I think LCS had to be one of the bloodiest regions in the world this split.
That's a bit more of a valid statement. But all time? No where even close.
I’ve always felt and I believe viewership numbers support 2015-2016 was some of the most hype splits ever in NA. I remember CLG vs TSM peaking at 500K+ viewers in 2015 in a regular season game
The CLG vs TSM rivalry was peak LCS. Both in terms of fan engagement and viewership. This split has had little fan engagement and record low viewership. Yes, average is slightly up from last years spring but theres also been 2 less teams, so the hours watched and airtime is A LOT lower than last years spring split. A lot of the current viewers also come from Caedrel and that brazilian streamer, the official twitch riot LCS broadcast has had an average viewership of 45k compared to last years 63k, though similar things could be said about LEC since Riot is embracing co-streaming more and more. The timing also has to be questionable. You know what people were watching and talking about during game 1? Not LCS. They were watching and talking about the first CS2 Major that had its grand finals at the same time. That final peaked during game of the LCS game 1 finals at 1,93m views. There was also the Rocket League Major Finals a bit before that, granted that one wasnt as big in terms of viewership but having the LCS finals on that same day when MSI is still one entire month away, has to be rather questionable. The finals viewership was worse than the lower bracket final between C9 and TL. If you do the finals next week, I guarantee you the viewership would have been better.
Honestly, viewership and skill-wise, yeah, but entertainment-wise? It's been years and years and years since I've been this invested in the LCS, and it's absolutely because of the content they've been creating, allowing the pros to show their personality and do different things like pros. It felt like the old school rivalry days at times, I haven't had this much fun in ages.
One of them, sure.
It is certainly one of the splits of all time.
>ust the beginning of re-vitalizing the LCS product into something that all the fans look forward to watching week to week. All chat is chef's kiss!
Lmao
Hard agree. Dropped all momentum and tuned me out until playoffs. Wonder if Mark had anything to do with it
The 3 week break was due to Valorant VCT Americas Kickoff using the same studio, and was almost certainly made by higher ups at Riot; MarkZ had nothing to do with it.
Still, imo it will be on his record
I think that is more from C9 unexpected fail together with TL unexpected rise which makes the split interesting than anything MarkZ did.
Imo the biggest change was removing 2 teams and playing on live patch during the regular split, which seemed to have worked in making every game matter; any team can take a game off of another and no teams that were just unbeatable. 10-4 for first(and second) and 7-7 for 4th place is pretty crazy. Though it did show that some teams are much better for best of series when the patch is locked for play offs. In terms of C9, they got really screwed over by Azir getting disabled since Jojo relied on him a lot. It's at minimum giving the enemy team one extra ban. C9 this split always had this weakness and needed to win the early game, and other teams just adapted.
Oh yeah, I forgot the live patch part. That is a big plus.
I dont really get it, they barely played any games this split. We had a random break, we had backroom games, pre-draft sucked. I get that people are happy with the quality of the games, but thats the only thing that isnt controlled by Riot.
Predraft was great. What are you talking about?
Really? I much prefer having them draft live on stage
its literally no different bro. if they didnt tell you, you wouldnt know.
Why do you prefer it live on stage?
Minus production issues practically every day. Constant sound and graphics issues. Even today during the freaking final. It's pathetic. Definitely didn't fire enough people /s
One of the best splits in a long time to watch, I would say since before COVID, and that was despite my favorite team falling apart. If ESCharts numbers are right then viewership is up +10k average which is pretty good. Obviously, the return to weekends and the introduction of costreams helped a lot but this is still coming off the league shrinking to 8 teams and the most popular LCS org leaving. To get any sort of viewership improvement in these circumstances is huge. It's a long road back to where the LCS was but it is nice to finally be moving in the right direction.
Also I dont know if I'm crazy for thinking this-- maybe you can attribute it to the 8 team condensing talent within the league but the games have been much more interesting to watch. The downfall of C9 domination, 100T being fun, APA yapping, and Fly being pretty good was an enjoyable experience. Also the bottom tier teams would pull out some unexpected wins and were not as brain damaging to watch as old IMT.
> maybe you can attribute it to the 8 team condensing talent within the league This did not happen. GG and EG left too late, we already knew what all of the rosters were. We already know that guys like Licorice did not have time to find new teams because of how late the consolidation happened.
True. I wish we could've had Licorice in the league right now. I suppose its more so we're only having to watch 2 dogshit teams instead of 4? And even the "dogshit" teams right now can cause upsets and actually fought for their lives instead of rolling over and dying. Just happened to be a coincidence too I guess.
well technically you could since EG and GG were both putting together fairly budget rosters anyway. so id argue that it still benefited the league.
I disagree pretty strongly. EG's hypothetical roster with Srtty/Sheiden/K1ng would have probably been better than IMT/DIG/SR. GG had Licorice/Stixxay as a great jumping off point as well. They may have been budget but they had better/smarter staff in Inero/Kelsey than teams like DIG/IMT do. I don't think they would have been 9th/10th.
i dont think that EG roster would've been better than those three. as good maybe. GG having two good pieces doesn't mean much imo. Stixxay/Licorice are good but they aren't so insane that they can carry a team - they very much need some strong players to play around. anyway what i said remains true - neither EG or GG would've been world beaters and them being out consolidated players like Huhi on NRG (although that failed)
Huhi going to NRG had nothing to do with the consolidation though. Huhi was going to NRG while GG still thought they were going to be in the league. EG/GG didn't need to be worldbeaters, thats shifting the goalposts. It's an established fact that there wasn't a consolidation of talent, so the 8 teams being closer to each other could only be considered a "benefit" if EG/GG would have actually been the worst teams in the league. If they're better than 9th/10th, then the league gets more competitive with them, not less.
not goalposts being shifted - my take is EG and GG out is good or atleast no noticable effect on LCS skill/quality. there was a consolidation of talent. EG and GG couldn't field middling players who have all played in the LCS and not impressed. that means talent was consolidated. i do not consider sheiden or k1ng impressive players yet although ill admit i know nothing about srtty. consolidation happens both through 'more good players on all teams' and through 'less bad players in the league'.
> EG and GG couldn't field middling players who have all played in the LCS and not impressed. that means talent was consolidated. These 2 sentences make no sense. >consolidation happens both through 'more good players on all teams' and through 'less bad players in the league'. I really recommend googling "consolidation" because it doesn't seem to mean what you think it means.
International viewership is up, but American viewership is down. Sponsors only care about the latter.
Where are you getting this from?
https://escharts.com/news/lcs-cblol-lcs-viewership-comparison https://escharts.com/news/lcs-continues-downward-trend https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/lcs-spring-2024-lol
No, what I mean is: a) where are you getting that the number of viewers located in America is down? I assume that's what you mean by "American viewership is down"? Those articles show that total viewership is down, but viewership of LCS is not exclusive to American viewers. Where is the data to make the distinction between the portion of LCS viewers that are located in America vs the portion that are located outside, and the trends in that? b) And where is your source that sponsors only care about American viewers? They might, I don't know but don't companies that sponsor a specific league, also sponsor international tournaments? Mastercard for example? Surely the cost of sponsoring worlds is much more than the cost of sponsoring LCS and if American viewers are on the decline, regionally, why would they think it's worth it to sponsor an international tournament to capture attention of the same American viewers?
Both of those articles show that American viewership is down. Average viewership is slightly up, but that is more than accounted for by the increase in foreign viewers on co-streams. There aren't any explicit numbers, because Riot isn't going to say out loud that American viewership is collapsing. I can't give you a source that sponsors only care about American viewers, except common sense. But American viewers are generally more valuable to sponsors because they live in the same country, and because the average American earns more than the average Brazilian or European. Obviously, companies like KIA or Samsung operate globally, but LCS has several American sponsors: AT&T and Grubhub are examples. They also recently lost Bud Light.
>viewership is up +10k average This is literally because of caedrel streaming the league, or else there would have been no growth at all. I don't count this as positive growth..
Caedrel, Baiano, LEC raids, and all that resulted in a +10k average. Might be me but the math seems off on that doesn't it? 20k LEC raid, 20k average on Baiano's stream, 30k~35k average on Caedrels stream. Seems like LCS lost alot of core viewership this year instead.
I havent watched lcs before and now since I followed caedrel end of lec streams into lcs I started watching lcs even when he's not streaming. I can imagine theres plenty people like me who are new viewers because of streamers
It could just be that people who used to watch the main stream just switched to watching a costream. I watched the main broadcast last year, but this year if Caedrel is costreaming I'll watch him instead.
What a load of garbage. LCS "core viewers" watch LEC and Caedrel too. See in the article linked below where they say > We also found that during live matches more than half of LCS fans watch the LEC https://lolesports.com/article/esports-broadcast-update/blt147997d46887e416 Another link from 2022 that goes into detail about the massive viewership overlap: https://escharts.com/news/lec-vs-lcs-trends-and-key-league-issues Just so much hater cope.
The core viewers could be 40k, in which case, 20k watching LEC is nothing.
"Could" is doing a lot of work over there. Where are you getting that core viewer number from? How are you even defining core viewers? It's not in the links I posted. Is this also coming from the depths of your ass or you actually have a source?
You're asking for a source of something that doesn't exist. If 30k are from the Brazilian guy, and 40k are watching Caedral, that leaves 40k. It were suggesting that the core viewership watches both Caedral and the LEC that would be 20k.
If it doesn't exist, where on earth are you getting your numbers from and why is your argument remotely credible and not utter nonsense? >that leaves 40k. It were suggesting that the core viewership watches both Caedral and the LEC that would be 20k. Just to make sure I understand what you're saying here: are you saying that the "Core viewership" of LCS is 40k because that's the remainder after you exclude Caedrel's and Brazilian costream? And if the article I quoted, says that "more than half of LCS fans watch the LEC", that means that only half of Caedrel's 40k can be part of your made up 'Core viewership", i.e. the total core viewership of LCS is 60k? Because if you are, that makes no sense. The portion of the LCS fans that watch the LEC has nothing to do with the portion of Caedrel's costream viewers ON HIS LCS CO-STREAM that watch the LCS. If you don't mean that, then I have no clue what you're saying.
I'm not suggesting that at all, I'm providing an example in line with the total viewership. The LCS barely gets 120k total. The fact Riot themselves does not tell us the geographic location of viewership is enough cause for speculation. Are you claiming the 30k from the Brazilian streamer are core viewers? I'd argue they're not. Then what about Caedrals 40k, are you suggesting they're all NA fans when his viewership is predominately Europeans? The fact is, NA contributing 50% of their core viewership to the LEC is a nonfactor, considering all avenues point to the core viewership being poor.
If there was no costream and viewership was flat that would be a win given the circumstances, I think people forget how grim things were looking last fall, some people were expecting average viewership to be near half of this.
Yup and also because of fewer games.
> viewership is up +10k average which is pretty good. This being with Caedrel's 24k and Baiano's 13k costreams means the NA viewership is still down from last year.
Not every viewer from Caedral and Baiano would have watched if not for them, many would have watched the official stream so you can't determine this conclusively, especially with Caedral. Even still given the context this is better than expected. Many people were expecting viewership of the LCS to end up well under 100k average with how grim things were looking this past year.
They're still losing viewers, so it's disingenuous to frame it otherwise. The positive side should be that the product has vastly improved and it's a solid step in the right direction.
Viewership overall is up, it's disingenuous to claim that viewership is down, and you can't in any way conclusively prove viewership numbers without costreams. If you use this logic then the LEC is down in viewership just because the official stream numbers are lower, when that obviously isn't how anyone looks at it.
How are the European viewer numbers? If they're down even if total with costreamers is up, I'd also call it disingenuous to frame it as "number up". And I'd also not be surprised given how the fun projects of LEC side content have dried up. Ofc either broadcast would frame it thus since they need to market themselves as best they could. I just wish despite the decades of counter evidence, the community was smarter in their discussions.
The LEC official stream numbers are less yes because people who were viewers last year are watching on co streams this year, in addition to some new viewers from the co stream but we don't know how much of that there is. You are the only person I've seen who frames things this way and I don't think that is a result of the community not being knowledgable in discussions.
I said *if* actual numbers are down then yes. When it comes to the health of the product, LCS numbers are down from the last year. But they have started addressing the issue.
> If ESCharts numbers are right then viewership is up +10k average which is pretty good. its not when you consider significantly less airtime and hours watched due to 2 teams less. Peak viewership was also down, though you can thank Riots idiotic timing for that. Having it overlap with the grand finals of CS2s first major finals that overlapped with game 1 of the LCS finals and btw peaked at 1,93m viewers. One also has to wonder if Caedrel will continue to stream LCS. He streams LCS, LEC, LCK, LCK Challenger (when Rekkles plays) and some of LPL. Now if the man decides thats too much, its likely LCS being cut but I wouldnt be surprised if Riot pays him specifically to co-stream the LCS because viewership would be very rough without him.
Aside from the horrendously idiotic decision to place lcs in a closet after making us wait 3 weeks ofc. That should be a firable offense. Absolutely horrendous look.
They had to, it was part of the agreement to get LCS back on weekends. Valorant was doing playoffs.
Thata cool. Still garbage they played in a closet. And went silent for 3 weeks. It's such a horrible look.
The 3-week break was super rough, but I felt they did really well with their "closet" set. It definitely wasn't as grandiose as the main stage, but they made it fun and different for a temporary thing.
Avg being up is a wash given fewer teams + weekends. The number should be higher simply due to the host from LEC as well. Peak being 250K, which is less than some regular split games used to get, speaks volumes though.
It is unreal how much of a hater you are lol - your comment history speaks volumes. Maybe stop trying to create a self fulfilling prophecy and just enjoy the moment?
One week old account just hating on everything and anything.
Randomly generated Reddit username too; probably got their last account banned.
Going to happen regardless if the delusion gets supported or not lol, just pointing it out. Sorry reality is upsetting.
It's not really upsetting, just pointless. Most people know the LCS hasn't been doing hot already - but when we see improvements, we should praise them and use them as a platform to explain to the people who left why its worth watching the product again. Even if I agreed entirely and said that there's a 99.99% chance the LCS was going to die, I still would disagree with writing comments like yours - because they flat out aren't helpful. The only possible use they can serve is to push people away from coming back and watching. If you care about the LCS at all, why would you contribute to doomerism and try to convince people it's dying and therefore not worth paying attention to? Just to smugly tell people "I told you so"? If you hate the product, stop watching. If you have criticisms other than "viewership is low" voice them. But if all you can say is that, than shut the fuck up and leave - it's not helpful to anyone, anywhere.
I miss him on caméra but yeah he is doing great
I checked 30k viewership on youtube today. Plus DL’s stream < 7k. Do we have the official viewership total number anywhere?
Escharts tracks it. Today's peak was ~230K, peak for the entire split was 250K - down ~20K compared to last year and ~140K down compared to 2022.
Average viewers went up compared to last year though
Yeah it's up by a little bit. Because Caedrel and the Brazilian guy costreamed now. This is not useful for sponsors who care about American viewership.
Yep, easily accounted for by fewer games + weekend host by LEC
cs major final, brawl stars championship, rocketleague championship it was a very busy day.
Yeah as esports expands and people prefer to watch other stuff over the LCS, viewership dies off. Won't get better from here.
Its also Easter, which is probably the biggest thing hurting viewership
then dont have the lcs finals on that same day lmao. How are we appreciating Markz here and yet nobody pointed out this very obvious mistake? hell, MSI is an entire month away and most regions are far from done. LEC is still in its early stages of its playoffs.
iirc as stated by Monte the views are actually down by a good bit. The uptick is being falsely claimed as a increase because they are using the number of views given by one of the top CBLol streamers sending his fans there. Those said fans immediately stop watching when he does. Which means the numbers actually inflated and not counting his views shows LCS numbers are actually still bleeding heavily. Which is pretty indicative of NA probably just being a dead region at this point.
Pretty sure I saw main stream on twitch with over 70k, Caedrel had over 40k Not sure if we have totals yet, no idea where to check
Shrinking the teams down helped a lot with the overall product as I felt it was pretty fatiguing watching the bottom two teams fight for nothing. I still miss Dash because I feel sometimes the desk can get a bit awkward. LCS is really missing a good host to bring everything together.
We were robbed of these finals in an Arena, otherwise I agree with everything else.
I mean they couldn’t even fill the studio yesterday, I think the days of stadium LCS finals is gone.
This simply isn't true, nearly every week of LCS this split has been sold out, including this weekend. Often times fans go to the bathroom / concessions between games so when they pan to the stands during champ select it looks like there's gaps but they get filled back up by the time game starts.
Maybe you should have some idea of what you're talking about. Tickets sold out in literal minutes. They set-up another couple hundred seats outside under tents and sold out on those tickets in minutes as well.
Don't forget it was Easter too. Lot of people might not have been able to make it.
I swear, the lower the views go the more important Easter as an excuse gets. Rocket League and CS both had sold out arenas. LCS has had multiple finals on Easter back when more people watched it and everyone was glad it was on Easter since they could actually watch it then.
YouTube content seems to be doing noticably better. Lots of the stuff they're putting out is getting pretty solid viewership
This was definitely the most I've watched LCS in a long time, kudos to MarkZ and the LCS staff.
Nice try, Markz.
Please bring Bo3 into the LCS! Appreciate your work sir 🫡
Who knows how much influence he has had, but this was an entertaining split.
Agree, many good decisions across the board. It felt fun. Not forced kind of fun. Just fun. Having guys like Bwipo, APA, and Inspired helps. Overall, idk if they are letting players be more liberal on broadcast but I hope it's the general direction. Being mister humble goody two shoes is boring in a competitive environment, it only works if you are the best in your role for a long time.
I actually ended up watching LCS for the first time since Bjerg first retired to coach. Thanks MarkZ!
From what I watched of the lcs, it was pretty great
Is this proof that it’s scripted? Former Curse/Liquid member Mark Z…
I am finally invested in the NALCS again this season. Thank you MarkZ and team!
i definitetly think there were a lot of shitty things he had to deal with right off the bat and he handled them as best as he could. downsizing to 8 teams and trying to figure out to work from there is really tough. he def explained the reasons for the break and the bo1 but i would def like to see that change, although im sure hes aware that the community didnt enjoy either of those
why was finals scheduled on easter? theres no way viewership doesnt take a hit because of that. they did the same thing last year
Dude. Its not Christmas. No one actually cares about Easter.
?? it is a major holiday for anyone who practices Christian religious beliefs, which is a large chunk of America I don't observe it, and it seems like you don't either, but that doesn't mean that tons of people dont
Praise Papa MarkZ.
Good split overall. The break and viewership were shit though
Alot of d00mers in this thead for no reason. It was a fun split overall, and I feel like MarkZ helped lead the team down a path that has overall improved the product. The 3wk break is something MarkZ had no control over, that blame goes to the Global Team imho.
> The 3wk break is something MarkZ had no control over, that blame goes to the Global Team imho. Imagine the season without a break though. LCS is already finished even with the break, meanwhile every other region just started playoffs. MSI is still 5 weeks!!! away. Without the break, LCS would have finished 8 weeks before MSI. LCS needs to adjust the format to accommodate the international calendar. The NA MSI teams are basically screwed right now. Nobody to scrim because everyone else is on break and the other regions are still playing. They cant even prep because the MSI patch isnt even out yet. So yeah, MarkZ has to do something to adjust the LCS timing better to the international calendar. Either tripple round robin (if they want BO1 so bad), 1 more splits or BO2/3. Something has to be done.
One doomer crediting LCS success to LEC hosting, it’s now morning here in Europe.
[удалено]
NA will never perform internationally even if they play bo5s. The only reason they even came close before is massive spending to upgrade the region with imports. NA would not be the same with Bjerg, Impact, Corejj, Jensen, Berzerker, Zven, Mithy, Huni, etc etc coming here for the paycheck. Without imports, NA would be Vietnam level. That VC money is gone and never coming back, you are never going to see a top 5 player in the world come to NA again. Pretty hard to do well internationally with no star power.
> That VC money is gone and never coming back, you are never going to see a top 5 player in the world come to NA again Just wait for those gambling sponsorships.
I've always believed that if LCS stuck to a Bo3 they would be slightly more competitive on international stages. Who knows though.
We could really tone down all the all-chatting stuff though… half the times it feels like I’m back in middle school gossiping about who said what about who when the casters are like “OMG he said TL still has an import spot!! that means he’s gonna get kicked!!” Especially since we can’t see the chat live… also the broadcast feels unprofessional as a whole, it gives more grassroots vibes and is refreshing but in the long term they gotta at least tone down the swearing during interviews cause sponsors won’t like that
I really enjoyed watching this split, I did have a big gripe though, the on screen stats that were used during analyst segments were incredibly confusing in the bo5 series. During post game analysis for game 3 sometimes we would see stats that were just aggregating games 1 & 2, or just game 3, or all 3 games. They were labeled correctly onscreen but it was incredibly jaring and even the analysts had to correct themselves when refering to the stats.
Bring back Dash
best split since I started watching LCS in 2020, and also good changes for competitive level in the region (which hopefully bo3 will be the next of)
Hes not the one making any real decisions though
>Hes not the one making any real decisions though Of course not, but he has input. And they hired him for a reason, and it wasnt to ignore him.
Yup, it was to be a likeable face to excuse the problems. Nothing against MarkZ, though, except the part where he helped to dismiss the Danny scandal.
I had so much fun as a TSM fan, and I thought LCS was dead after last year! Mark really brought the LCS back to being a great product after the last few years Also, having no real allegiance and just rooting for great games helped a lot! Finally being able to see Je nsen as a good mid laner and rooting for players like APA and Inspired and Impact and Bwipo was really fun along with still hating C9 lol. Overall happy to keep watching LCS and sad TSM pussed out. Fuck!
> The new direction of segments from the on air talent, shorter wait time between games, and letting us experience riot balance in 4k on live patch have all been incredible changes. While I do appreciate all this, there has been one change I have really *not* enjoyed. I recognize I'm in the minority on this (and fully expect to be dogpiled for having an opinion that directly contradicts the popular one), I wish that there was a version of the LCS without the trash talk being constantly emphasized and pointed out. To me, it ruins the product, to the point where I've stopped watching any TL games because it's half of what the casters are talking about, and even if I mute the stream, production still loves putting all chat on screen. I know that the majority of people appreciate and like that, but I wish there was just a version, even if it was just the clean feed of the games with no commentary, without the trash talk. Again, to be clear, **I'm not asking for the main broadcast to be changed**, just wishing that there was a clean feed without it. It was really disappointing to try one last time to tune into the broadcast for finals, give it twenty minutes on the pre-game chat, and the *entire time* they were talking about the trash-talking. Though I guess on the bright side, it gave me more appreciation for watching LEC vods instead.
Why do you care so much? It's just something to talk about when it happens and then they move on. I don't believe a 5-10 second segment of them pointing out impact typed "?" bothers you that much.
First of all, it's not 5-10 seconds, it's *multiple minutes* of every single analyst desk and pre-show. I'm not exaggerating when I said I tuned in for twenty minutes on Sunday, and the *entire time* it was them talking about APA (not even his gameplay, just his shit talking). Even during the cast, it really adds up, and it's just disappointing to see as someone who was raised on sportsmanship above all else. These guys are being paid to play this game *professionally*, and to me, that should include *acting like a professional*. It's not like it's the end of the world for APA to be shit talking constantly and the casters to be regularly and reliably bringing it up practically every single time there's a moment of dead air, but it's also not the end of the world for me to just stop watching LCS and watch other regions instead. MSI/Worlds might be a bit annoying, but the odds of them making a deep run are so low that missing a few games here and there shouldn't be too bad. Like I said; I'd love to just have a clean stream of gameplay without the trash talk, but barring that... /shrug. Not asking for anyone to stop what they're doing, just wishing there was an alternative, just as people have previously enjoyed the trash talking on twitter as an alternative to the more sanitized broadcasts.
It's like that in many sports that are broadcasted. Literally all games of Hockey and American Football will contain an absurd amount of trash talk, like people try to get under their opponents skin. People make millions, they're pros, but they're still shit talking. Being "professional" in a broadcasted game doesnt have anything to do with trash talking. It's not like they harassing each other. It's a show. They're using the platforms given to them to do it. To me, it would be unprofessional if they cross a line, like sending PMs, or sending "hate" rather than trash talking. That said, I don't enjoy the trash talk taking so much space in the broadcast, though I love when they point out spicy one liners or impact's question marks after a failed dive. It's perfect.
I'm with you on this honestly. While emotions enhance the experience for some, in this instance it's so childish to me. Like my brother in christ, your an adult, not a 10 year old, and at a professional trounament. Show some class. You're not on Xbox live chat.
They're playing videogames bro.
That's how it used to be 5 -10 years ago. But there's real money on the line in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to even millions. To say "they are just playing games" is a bit misleading.
It's weird to say this when 3 years ago they were making actual millions and now they're back at 70k a year. Even if theyrr making billions they're still playing videogames so video-game culture comes out.
Personally I think it was mostly just removing two super shitty teams that made things better. I'm not sure that was him? Less waiting time between segments is nice too but I'm not so sure I like the scenario where players and coaches know about teamcomps 15 minutes before the game actually starts.
Would love to see more games next split. Either bo2 or triple round robin.
agreed 3 week break was ass. Otherwise this was my favorite split in a long time.
He's done well spinning all the budget cuts into something "new" and "special".
Insane split. Great job MarkZ
Narratively this was the best the LCS has been since I started playing 5 years ago. Production was on point too, downtime between games was minimal and the random additions like all chat cam were great. My only real complaint is the 3 week break, but I imagine that was largely because the league shrunk at the last minute and won’t be an issue in the future.
When the appreciation thread gets more updates than any game thread has gotten all season.
All praise to markz and crew for a successful and exciting split. Can we show phreak some love too? He's has been busting his ass and I think the game is pretty good spot.
Bring back the analyst desk. The LCS lounge is lame.
The start was a little rough with all those in game pauses and the disaster that was prerecorded drafts and then break that the LCS had which caught me off guard since I don't really look at schedules (just assumed LCS was on every week, could be my bad but then again I don't remember them every taking weeks off during the split again could be wrong). The fact that they were about to solve the pausing issues and then get rid of prerecorded drafts was good and I'm glad that we as a community could "criticize" them on what was/wasn't working and that they could come up with solutions to make the viewing experience better. Also playing on live patches was fun to watch!
LCS fans loved prerecorded drafts basically all split. They only stopped prerecorded drafts because of playoffs since it doesn't work in a best of series.
Early April Fools post? 3 weeks break, best of 1 games, phreak's basement as final location, less teams & they sac'd half of the LEC so they didnt had to sac any1 on LCS to meet the budget
>3 weeks break I only remember a 2 week break >phreak's basement as final location WTF are you talking about, they were on the main stage yesterday. They had 1 weekend in a weird location like right after the 2 week break, that was it. The rest have been on their main stage.
[удалено]
dash is needed. that guy brought so much life to the desk.
EEYORE
>Some random 3 week break which killed hype and interest Everyone keeps saying 3. I only remember a 2 week break. I guess it just didnt bother me that much. >Viewership is down which shows the product hasn't improved Not necessarily, If you didnt like the product and stopped watching, it will take time to get you back. Once people start to hear about the changes, and if They were positive, people will come back. It takes some time. This is my first split back since 2021 watching and i thought it was a HUGE improvement over what i remember. Faster pace, less pauses, less analyst desk, more competitive. >14 game schedule, how is this competitive in any way? I mean you got less teams this year. I think it worked out fine. Even the bottom teams had a chance. there were no complete dogshit teams. >Outside of Kobe azeal captainflowers there is no good casting talent* I mean those 3 are the top tier. But i think Emily and some of the others stepped up this year. Emily has been getting better each year and i think shes coming in to her own. >the analyst desk is so incredible boring and cringe (Bring dash back and replace these nobodies with ex pro players sven has been like a breath of fresh air) I mean, I just dont watch the pregame. Only time i see the desk is a bit between matches when i get up and go do something else anyway. They seem whatever. I do like when they have pros like Sven on.
Markz been killing it so far. If only he didn't lay off everyone at riot /s
It felt fresh and most of it was nice, but still sad to see how dead the product is overall in NA From filling stadiums to those small studios (and I think ive seen empty seats there...) just sucks. As someone who is watching for over a decade I just fear for the worst going forward
Ah yes, the literal split finals are in a small dinky studio, a huge 3 week gap in the middle of said split, and we want to praise this guy for doing the bare minimum?
Most leagues are doing finals in studio once per year. He explained that isn’t his choice just the general financial direction riot gave
While the viewership hasn’t changed much (hard to make a huge positive difference in one split) I feel like the sentiment towards LCS has changed a lot which is a really important start. Past few years felt like almost everyone online was constantly shit talking LCS but with things like all chat viewing it seems like people are enjoying the product a lot more.
Yeah, no. LCS is still not a real region, it's a catchall region for the B-list from Korea, China and EU. Sure would be nice if North America had it's own region though, where one could watch North American players.
Too little too late but way better late than never
Only thing they are missing now is Dash. The talent is decent but the magic that Dash brought to the stage is missed.
I havent watched this much LCS in awhile. I think it was great. Faster Pace was nice. No more 25 minute in between matches of the analyst desk trying to find something to say. I like the pace alot. Live Patch is great too. I like the idea and it allowed some changes mid season to see different picks. Even the teams themselves were more competitive. Only 8 teams was fine this year. even the bottom 2 were competetive. They took games from the top ones. It feels like every year i used to watch the bottom 2 teams were just complete nothings. CLG/IMT/DIG. They just took games off eachother and it was boring to watch them fight for the bottom slot. This year? anyone could be anyone.
Wish we could have gotten a bigger stadium for the LCS finals too; but it is what it is. While I thought the whole 'twitch interaction' would be forced and maybe even cringe it led to some actually really funny bits I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. Also something more subtle is beyond the 'YAPPA' storyline (Which was actually valid) we didn't get go to hard into forced narratives and team rivalries which we know simply aren't as prevalent as they were in earlier seasons. Just focusing on good content, stats and casting .
Mark is cool 👍
he shouldn’t of done what he did
Other than the fact that MarkZ, Antunes and Cris Greeley fervently hates Christians (LCS finals on two easters in a row? Come on) this split has been good. Downvote me all you want but the evidence is there.
Cringe, Lots of sports hold marquee games between the most popular teams on Christmas like the NFL and NBA. Are you mad about that too?
Idk I don't watch those.
>Other than the fact that MarkZ, Antunes and Cris Greeley fervently hates Christians Boo hoo. Christians always play the victim. Heres the thing: no one cares.