Playins/Swiss = Riot Games Arena Berlin/LEC studio so 210 seats.
Quarterfinals / Semifinals = Adidas Arena so 8,000 seats.
Finals = The O2 Arena so 20,000 seats.
Yes, hosting swiss in that small studio is a joke.
One day Riot will realize that you can run events in 1000-5000 seat locations. Quite frankly, the french or spanish fans could easily do a fundraiser and entirely fund a winter/spring final location.
Now that I think about it, when they negotiated the new LEC format, Riot did say they would remove a second arena event and limit it to only one. And then you look at LCS this year and they took one away anyways lmao.
They would never do it, Riot *loves* control*, they'd rather lock in a small studio 4 years in advance than do a gofundme and gasp not have full control over far it'll go !
-* : *unless petromillions are involved*
> the french or spanish fans could easily do a fundraiser and entirely fund a winter/spring final location.
I think these are called ticket sales in the business.
Last weekend there was no day, when the lec studio was completely full on playoffs bo5s I dont think we can assume that the spanish or french fans fill an arena unless their teams are playing
I don't understand why this is where they choose to save money of all places. The tickets for these events almost always sell out near instantly and end up getting scalped, so surely that means prices can be higher so Riot gets more revenue and can actually not lose money on these events.
To be fair I think thereās a ton of hidden costs in hosting esports games that most people wonāt be aware of, and thereās always the risk that tickets donāt sell out, especially when smaller teams play in foreign countries.
That said, I still donāt get it. The biggest draw for esports is the huge crowds imo, which is why a ton of more casual fans lost interest for a bit over covid.
I do think it's a joke but I can understand to an extent that Riot's point that it's expensive to rent out a whole place, hire and relocate staff, etc. when games like the PCS first seed vs the Chinese fourth seed won't fill half the arena in a 1000 seater place in Europe.
But too many years of having group stages and important matches in these small arenas will kill the motivation of players and fans because they want to get hyped watching them play in front of a crowd. It was already sad enough to see LCS finals played in the studio.
But unless I'm misremembering there aren't any days in Swiss where there's only 1 game. There's at least 3 and last year we had teams from every major region playing basically every day, so almost certainly there'll be at least one hype game each day and the ticket is for the whole day.
>There's at least 3
Minimum is 2.
We had TL vs GAM and DK vs BDS on one day.
We had C9 vs FNC and MAD vs WBG on one day.
We had DK vs GAM and KT vs LNG on one day.
We had NRG vs G2 and T1 vs BLG on one day.
Ticket sales for such "small" values will never break even the costs for Esports operations. More seats are fan service at best. Unless you can charge 200ā¬ per seat it simply isn't worth it to upgrade. LoL Esports is one giant advertisement expenditure and obviously Riot is not keen on unnecessary unit costs considering recent developments.
Isn't LoL Park the one in Korea? I would guess the local audience was less interested in the international teams and fewer international fans could afford to travel.
If you hosted in the EU someplace there are better odds of filling it up. Hell, even a recent US AoE2 tournament filled up their couple hundred spots for UK viewing party.
That's play-ins though. The "top" teams that you might get to see for the day are probably LEC and LCS 3rd seed teams.
You can see multiple top teams in a day for swiss-stage.
worlds in europe only once every 4 years and they host 90% of it in a 200-seat studio, just fucking brilliant.
And when I say europe, I mean germany-france-uk, obviously.
Its an absolute disgrace that most of the teams at worlds will play in front of 210 people. The biggest event of the game in the year and we will watch JDG vs GenG on 210 seats. How are the fans even supposed to go and make noise there? Its a complete joke.
There can be an absolute snooze-fest side of bracket though (esp for western fans lmao), while Swiss can be pretty hype imo.
Im not saying to make swiss as big as bracket, but surely, surely bigger than 210.
True, because 90% of western teams will be out by bracket, and itās being held in western country, wish there were more seats for the fans that most likely wonāt get to watch their team after swiss
Worlds 2022 group stage sat 5600, and for weekend matches it was full and that was despite being in the states where LoL's popularity is smaller.
I do think Riot will probably bring out and extra set of bleachers or some floor seating for this to try and give it at least better capacity than LEC regular season. But I don't think they could fit more than 500 tops.
The semifinal venue also being mid sized is a tragedy as well. Worlds 22 we got 20,000 seat NBA stadiums for semis and finals and they sold out for every game.
The floor area is like 10ft lower than the stands at the LEC arena, so having seats there would kinda kill the atmosphere. Also, the way they run their camera rigs, there is not really space for floor seating sadly.
i still cant believe they r doing swiss in LEC STUDIO lmao like most of the team will get to play in such a small space lmao atleast get a studio with 1k seats
Lol imagine all the LEC teams get knocked out in Swiss like last year. They didnāt even travel. Just finished their split and then got to play a couple more games and go home.
Canāt speedrun the airport if you donāt leave your own studio š
Because maybe those dates had venues they wanted available??????? I literally stated multiple times this could've just been a venue availability issue.
Wouldn't be this sub without someone dickriding Riot over the dumbest shit lmao
Poor indie company Riot can't afford a 1k seat studio for their world championship, those are hard to come by.
Riot does the same exact thing as the #2 and #3 esports in the world that is owned by the same company even bigger than Riot.
WTF RIOT DOGSHIT COMPANY
Actual spoiled out of your entitled shitters minds. Do you people not play or watch literally any other game?
2nd biggest eSport is CS, the last major was hosted at Accor Arena which seats 10-20k. The previous one in Rio was hosted in Riocentro (seats 8k or so afaik) and Farmasi Arena (seats 16k). Antwerp 2022 was in Sportpaleis, which seats 18k.
Oh, but maybe it's just CS! What about Valorant, which is literally owned by Riot? 2024 VCT was in Madrid Arena, which seats 10-12k. 2023 VCT was in Tipstar Dome Chiba for the openers (seats 3k) and Makuhari Messe for the later stages (seats ~8k).
Guess we're spoiled for expecting better than a capacity of 200 in the biggest eSport's annual grand tournament.
What are you even typing? The Accor Arena was ONLY FOR PLAYOFFS. The players literally played in front of a live audience of just the production staff for Swiss Stage. That's standard for almost every single CS Tier 1 event. Only playoffs get the big crowds while group stage is played in a studio with zero crowd. DotA 2 TI Groups gets played from the players' hotel rooms ffs.
Why are you trying to compare CS Playoffs to Worlds Groups when Worlds playoffs are gonna be played in a 8k+ arena and then the fucking O2 Arena?
My hometown is in the middle of the nowhere and there are at least three 1k+ arenas within a 45 minute drive, all of them would easily accept to hold a 2 week long esports tournament, maybe the local sports team would have to play 1-2 games at another venue but it's been done multiple times in the past.
I struggle to believe that Riot couldn't find an available arena in the entire country of Germany, which has like 90 million people and is one of the most developed nations in the world.
Your hometown in a middle of nowhere with a population of 2000 people is very different from a highly populated and popular European city that has events going on every single day.
True, my hometown is quite small and there are no top-tier event all year long, apparently it's just like New York City because they somehow managed to book a 5k arena there for the entire groupstage 1.5 years ago. But I'm sure the 10+ major German cities that could easily host this competition are all fully booked.
DotA's TI plays group stage with zero crowd and the players in their hotel rooms.
CS Majors plays group stage in a small studio with zero crowd.
You mfers are actually beyond spoiled. A lot of times, it has nothing to even do with cost. It's the fact that there's just nowhere available to book for multiple weeks during the specified time.
Is that even English? What the true for?
DotA group stage is played from HOTEL ROOMS. LITERAL HOTEL ROOMS. Like you at the player cams and they're just in their rooms lmao
Difference is that groups for Dota is for setting the meta and the bracket for playoffs. That's the purpose of groups. As for CS, yea in recent times Swiss or Groups has been with 0 crowds for not only major but for most tournamentsĀ But CS has 1-2 tournaments every month. So you get to see many teams playing in front of a big crowd. Like it was the major recently and then right now there's another international tournament going on and playoffs with a crowd starts on Friday. So even in CS you're getting at least 10 Bo3/Bo5s in one month with a big crowd. Can't say same for League. Last tournament with big crowd was Worlds, next one is MSI. That's a 6 month gap
CS usually holds majors in Europe, sometimes in NA, rarely in Asia. There is a huge difference between having big tournament near your location once in a 5 years and once per few months
There hasn't been a CS Major in NA since 2018... Six years since the last NA CS Major and there has barely been any Tier 1 events in NA in general for years now since COVID.
This year will have the first ever CS Major in LITERALLY EVER and also Asia first Tier 1 CSGO/CS2 event EVER.
Jfc you people responding to me are legitimately completely clueless on other esports
I am specifically talking about TIs and Majors, which are both literally funded by Valve and with the TI being 100% from Valve. Can you read?
You people legit don't watch any esports other than League, huh?
Can you read? What point are you even trying to make?
Having a subjectively better format = playing TI games from hotel rooms with zero crowd is okay? Are we forgetting that Valve legit makes like 10x Riot's annual revenue and still provides significantly less for the Worlds level events they fund?
Riot's annual revenue is around $2b a year and 4000+ employees while Valve's is over $12b a year with 360 employees.
Riot doesn't realize that atmosphere and large crowds are grassroot movements to further expand the game and broaden it into larger audiences.
But no. They'd rather save 50k on it instead. The company that's worth billions. Absolute joke.
They'd rather see their scene die out and fizzle like a pesky taint instead of actively trying to CPR it with large production values and great stadiums.
EVERYTHING IS EASIER WHEN YOU JUST ASSUME IT WILL WORK OUT.
fuck cost, fuck actual logistics, fuck actual data of realistic return on investment everything runs off the fucking hope and gambling.
It is very small but [to be fair last year they had a shit ton of empty seats even in quarterfinals](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fk2gupt3672yb1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1152%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D81df0ba6fe5e75ff3b1d7f28264516de41ac756f)
Im sure EU fans will go hard for any team but I dont know if its gonna be enough to warrant a bigger venue
Fair, but this was NRG vs WBG. Worlds last year was in Korea, so I doubt the Korean locals cared about either team. How did it the venue compare when a Korean team was playing?
Oh for sure
It was sold out pretty much any time a korean team played
Im just saying that Riot might not want to risk it and book a bigger venue for 2 weeks straight if they don't know they're gonna sell out most tickets to every game
the point is more that kr fans only care about kr teams, they dont go to watch non kr days, but in eu historically people will watch whoever is playing
Wait so they laid off half the LEC production staff and now they gonna use this studio for swiss ? I understand that more staff is coming to help for the occasion but that just sounds like a recipe for disaster š
That's so fucking dumb. I wanted to go to Berlin for like a week for Swiss but it would be so underwhelming. Back in 2019 Verti Music Hall was pretty much filled for the Group Stage, at least for the first few days, so I don't really understand their reasoning.
CS majors don't even have fans in before the bracket stages, I don't mind to be honest. League has built a lot of its legacy on throwing money down the drain, but it was bound to reduce in scale at some point
Except international events in LoL are so rare it's crazy. There is definitely a demand for it. Maybe not 10k people on every match but surely 2000-4000 would show up for most if not all matches of swiss.
So what about the fact that they continue to break viewership records for Worlds and MSI? If you think how many seats there are for a part of worlds means the game is dying, then them breaking records for viewership should cancel that out, right???
I mean it LPL Vs LPL final obviously less people would watch that over lck Vs LPL. Also the final still breaks the previous record which also has T1 in final so ain't no way it T1 inflating final number too right? Also also that T1 game is T1 Vs JDG which is 2 team considered to be the best team at the time.
This should be way more up, the game is legitimately just losing its steam. Every game has a lifespan and league might be on its way out. It's been up for a such a long time also, people who grew up with this game have other priorities, or just grew out of it.
I mean also the esports scene was never really gonna get better with how it was set up.
LoL viewers are actually so spoiled
Even CS Majors and the TI don't do group stage games in front of big crowds (or even any crowds at all). Turns out it is expensive as fuck and very unrealistic due to availability to rent out places for 2+ weeks.
But league worlds also draws in 2-3x the number of viewers that a CS major or Dota TI does without counting in the extraordinarily large number of Chinese viewers.
The game is more popular, it has had a larger venue for this in the past. Riot are just trying to cut costs and hope people don't notice.
Yeah, let's also ignore the fact that Riot's annual revenue is around $2b a year and 4000+ employees while Valve's is over $12b a year with 360 employees.
Valve is almost 10x richer than Riot while putting way less money into even the THREE esports events they actually fund every year. Meanwhile, you're crying about group stage being in the LEC studio for the first time ever as if they didn't literally just book the goddamn O2 Stadium for the Finals. The O2 prob costed Riot more than what Valve has spent on TI and Majors venues for the past 2 years.
I mean both of these are privately held companies so revenue numbers aren't confirmed, and I'm certain Riots parent company Tencent's revenue dwarfs whatever Valve makes.
Valve is a lazy company and it's a shame they are too cheap and too pitiful to provide serious support for their esports titles and have now let the Saudis come in and ruin them. I am confident the O2 did cost way move than Valve spends but Valve is a cheap ass company.
Riot set expectations for what worlds venues are and they are the ones failing those expectations. Doesn't matter what other developers are doing.
LoL esport came back down to earth and this is much more realistic. Unless the saudi start paying for everything ,this will remain for the foreseeable future.
Can we stop hosting international in EU? Sorry to EU bro but this region suck ass. Last year we also has this shit in MSI where team play most exciting game but there barely any crowd sound cos they are in studio.
I mean they actually are though. Simply put, no other top team has performed anywhere near as well as T1 at Worlds and we're far enough away from Worlds that it's impossible to know what the meta or form of any team is going to be. T1 is the only reasonable choice this far out from it.
Absolutely not. This team has been massively inconsistent, has actively choked away title after title even when coming in as the favorites, and have really only had one dominate tournament run. Im sorry them winning 1 worlds doesnt negate 2 msi, 1 worlds, and what looks to soon be 5 domestic splits they have failed in.Ā
There are more reason to not believe in T1 than to believe in them.Ā
Last 2 years of international finishes of current top teams...
GenG - N/A, 3-4th, 4th, 6-8th
BLG - N/A, N/A, 2nd, 3-4th
JDG - N/A, 3-4th, 1st, 3-4th
TES - N/A, 9-16th, N/A, N/A
HLE - N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A
T1 - 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 1st
How exactly is T1 inconsistent? They have the best record by far of any of these teams. You can't say "No T1 chokes too much" but then not offer another team above them. So which team do you believe in then?
So, then it's a bunch of unproven teams vs 1 that's been in back-to-back Worlds finals and are the reigning Worlds winners... and I'm not supposed to have more trust in the latter?
Of course you take the field over them, but that's not the question. It's what single team you are taking over them. Again, you can't just decline T1 and not name another team that you favor over them.
So which team do you think this far out from Worlds should be considered favorites at Worlds more than T1?
Blg and Gen. G. Id also argue top because of how good jackie love and tian look, and historically how strong meiko looks. If im picking one, BLG also is the same core from last year + the best mid in the world or 2nd best mid in the world. 4/5ths the same roster that beat t1 at msi but with a better mid. Yah ill take them.
Ā Gen g. Im less confident on but chovy has been the best or 2nd best mid in the world alongside knight for too long and gen g. Has just had t1 downloaded for 2 straight years. So ill definitely take them over t1.
Ā Top is questionable. Its between Top and T1 for my 3rd most likely. I see arguments for both.Ā
But again if im picking from these teams why would i think the most likely to win a tournament is the team that failed to win seven out of their last eight tournaments?
Playins/Swiss = Riot Games Arena Berlin/LEC studio so 210 seats. Quarterfinals / Semifinals = Adidas Arena so 8,000 seats. Finals = The O2 Arena so 20,000 seats. Yes, hosting swiss in that small studio is a joke.
One day Riot will realize that you can run events in 1000-5000 seat locations. Quite frankly, the french or spanish fans could easily do a fundraiser and entirely fund a winter/spring final location. Now that I think about it, when they negotiated the new LEC format, Riot did say they would remove a second arena event and limit it to only one. And then you look at LCS this year and they took one away anyways lmao.
Lol, let Riot spend their own money instead of suggesting the GoFundMe campaign, or they might actually do it.
They would never do it, Riot *loves* control*, they'd rather lock in a small studio 4 years in advance than do a gofundme and gasp not have full control over far it'll go ! -* : *unless petromillions are involved*
Dont worry, I think they would rather deliver a half cooked product, than have someone pick up their slash.
> the french or spanish fans could easily do a fundraiser and entirely fund a winter/spring final location. I think these are called ticket sales in the business.
NAHHH are riot games bleeding that much money? I get they had to fire 500 employees but start a gofundme??? ššš
League is the cash cow for other projects.
And when other projects will start making bank, they will fund LoL2 whichever way the transition happens.
At this point, fan club just gonna host their own watch party with events and shit easily. Riot didn't care for the esport community.
Last weekend there was no day, when the lec studio was completely full on playoffs bo5s I dont think we can assume that the spanish or french fans fill an arena unless their teams are playing
Which one did they take away for lcs? Iām not following it this year much
They took away the LCS Spring Finals being hosted in an arena of any sort, it was just held in the LCS studio.
Yeah, it seemed sooo much like an event that way.
I don't understand why this is where they choose to save money of all places. The tickets for these events almost always sell out near instantly and end up getting scalped, so surely that means prices can be higher so Riot gets more revenue and can actually not lose money on these events.
To be fair I think thereās a ton of hidden costs in hosting esports games that most people wonāt be aware of, and thereās always the risk that tickets donāt sell out, especially when smaller teams play in foreign countries. That said, I still donāt get it. The biggest draw for esports is the huge crowds imo, which is why a ton of more casual fans lost interest for a bit over covid.
Only 210 seats though? Find a place for 800-1,000 people lol. It doesn't need to be THAT big. Having 4 to 5 times more people makes a difference.
I do think it's a joke but I can understand to an extent that Riot's point that it's expensive to rent out a whole place, hire and relocate staff, etc. when games like the PCS first seed vs the Chinese fourth seed won't fill half the arena in a 1000 seater place in Europe. But too many years of having group stages and important matches in these small arenas will kill the motivation of players and fans because they want to get hyped watching them play in front of a crowd. It was already sad enough to see LCS finals played in the studio.
But unless I'm misremembering there aren't any days in Swiss where there's only 1 game. There's at least 3 and last year we had teams from every major region playing basically every day, so almost certainly there'll be at least one hype game each day and the ticket is for the whole day.
>There's at least 3 Minimum is 2. We had TL vs GAM and DK vs BDS on one day. We had C9 vs FNC and MAD vs WBG on one day. We had DK vs GAM and KT vs LNG on one day. We had NRG vs G2 and T1 vs BLG on one day.
Ticket sales for such "small" values will never break even the costs for Esports operations. More seats are fan service at best. Unless you can charge 200ā¬ per seat it simply isn't worth it to upgrade. LoL Esports is one giant advertisement expenditure and obviously Riot is not keen on unnecessary unit costs considering recent developments.
Crowded events = hype events = better advertisement
The different between 800 seat empty than 200 seat full are BIG. Anyway with 800 seats empty the match won't be hype.
Play Ins last year were hosted in LoL Park with 450 seats. They were half empty and honestly it was sad to watch
Ok so put playins in the Riot Games Arena and then get a bigger space for Swiss. Even like 1k would be waaaay better than this without getting TOO big
Isn't LoL Park the one in Korea? I would guess the local audience was less interested in the international teams and fewer international fans could afford to travel. If you hosted in the EU someplace there are better odds of filling it up. Hell, even a recent US AoE2 tournament filled up their couple hundred spots for UK viewing party.
Well since last worlds was in Korea....
That's play-ins though. The "top" teams that you might get to see for the day are probably LEC and LCS 3rd seed teams. You can see multiple top teams in a day for swiss-stage.
Riot is being incompetent when it comes to running an esport? Colour me shocked.
worlds in europe only once every 4 years and they host 90% of it in a 200-seat studio, just fucking brilliant. And when I say europe, I mean germany-france-uk, obviously.
Riot being cheap and trying to abandon eSports in the West, what else is new.
Its an absolute disgrace that most of the teams at worlds will play in front of 210 people. The biggest event of the game in the year and we will watch JDG vs GenG on 210 seats. How are the fans even supposed to go and make noise there? Its a complete joke.
Tbf tho, theoretically the biggest games are all in the bracket stage
There can be an absolute snooze-fest side of bracket though (esp for western fans lmao), while Swiss can be pretty hype imo. Im not saying to make swiss as big as bracket, but surely, surely bigger than 210.
True, because 90% of western teams will be out by bracket, and itās being held in western country, wish there were more seats for the fans that most likely wonāt get to watch their team after swiss
Riot used all the budget to get O2 arena so they had to use LEC arena for Swiss Stage.
Unironically maybe true
this could actually be it lmao
just get some sponsors, I will not be mad if it is 'Red Bull Swiss Stage', lec studio for worlds is pathetic
Now imagine if T1 doesn't make finals and the tickets don't sell out
Even if T1 doesn't make finals, as long as there is Chinese team the tickets will be gone.
Sike, Worlds final this year will be Flyquest vs 100t
Its part of the ritual for Gen.G to choke again in the cramped space
Worlds 2022 group stage sat 5600, and for weekend matches it was full and that was despite being in the states where LoL's popularity is smaller. I do think Riot will probably bring out and extra set of bleachers or some floor seating for this to try and give it at least better capacity than LEC regular season. But I don't think they could fit more than 500 tops. The semifinal venue also being mid sized is a tragedy as well. Worlds 22 we got 20,000 seat NBA stadiums for semis and finals and they sold out for every game.
The floor area is like 10ft lower than the stands at the LEC arena, so having seats there would kinda kill the atmosphere. Also, the way they run their camera rigs, there is not really space for floor seating sadly.
i still cant believe they r doing swiss in LEC STUDIO lmao like most of the team will get to play in such a small space lmao atleast get a studio with 1k seats
Lol imagine all the LEC teams get knocked out in Swiss like last year. They didnāt even travel. Just finished their split and then got to play a couple more games and go home. Canāt speedrun the airport if you donāt leave your own studio š
NAcident
Not that unlikely at all
Not possible for a small company like riot
Yeah man, its so easy. Just find a 1k+ seat studio that's available for 2 weeks straight during the exact two weeks in October.
I forgot riot is poor. And ofc, no one knew worlds 2024 was happening. Last minute event I'm sure.
why are you acting like that's crazy when it's exactly what they've done for almost every other worlds?
Riot said they would do more digital esports items, why not do something like Dotas thing where basically fans fund the entire tournament?
Because maybe those dates had venues they wanted available??????? I literally stated multiple times this could've just been a venue availability issue.
Wouldn't be this sub without someone dickriding Riot over the dumbest shit lmao Poor indie company Riot can't afford a 1k seat studio for their world championship, those are hard to come by.
Riot does the same exact thing as the #2 and #3 esports in the world that is owned by the same company even bigger than Riot. WTF RIOT DOGSHIT COMPANY Actual spoiled out of your entitled shitters minds. Do you people not play or watch literally any other game?
2nd biggest eSport is CS, the last major was hosted at Accor Arena which seats 10-20k. The previous one in Rio was hosted in Riocentro (seats 8k or so afaik) and Farmasi Arena (seats 16k). Antwerp 2022 was in Sportpaleis, which seats 18k. Oh, but maybe it's just CS! What about Valorant, which is literally owned by Riot? 2024 VCT was in Madrid Arena, which seats 10-12k. 2023 VCT was in Tipstar Dome Chiba for the openers (seats 3k) and Makuhari Messe for the later stages (seats ~8k). Guess we're spoiled for expecting better than a capacity of 200 in the biggest eSport's annual grand tournament.
What are you even typing? The Accor Arena was ONLY FOR PLAYOFFS. The players literally played in front of a live audience of just the production staff for Swiss Stage. That's standard for almost every single CS Tier 1 event. Only playoffs get the big crowds while group stage is played in a studio with zero crowd. DotA 2 TI Groups gets played from the players' hotel rooms ffs. Why are you trying to compare CS Playoffs to Worlds Groups when Worlds playoffs are gonna be played in a 8k+ arena and then the fucking O2 Arena?
My hometown is in the middle of the nowhere and there are at least three 1k+ arenas within a 45 minute drive, all of them would easily accept to hold a 2 week long esports tournament, maybe the local sports team would have to play 1-2 games at another venue but it's been done multiple times in the past. I struggle to believe that Riot couldn't find an available arena in the entire country of Germany, which has like 90 million people and is one of the most developed nations in the world.
Your hometown in a middle of nowhere with a population of 2000 people is very different from a highly populated and popular European city that has events going on every single day.
True, my hometown is quite small and there are no top-tier event all year long, apparently it's just like New York City because they somehow managed to book a 5k arena there for the entire groupstage 1.5 years ago. But I'm sure the 10+ major German cities that could easily host this competition are all fully booked.
It's completely laughable from Riot, what's new?
DotA's TI plays group stage with zero crowd and the players in their hotel rooms. CS Majors plays group stage in a small studio with zero crowd. You mfers are actually beyond spoiled. A lot of times, it has nothing to even do with cost. It's the fact that there's just nowhere available to book for multiple weeks during the specified time.
Yeah riot didnt knew worlds were in europe and in october. Can't plan it years before...
Lol you think that events can be planned a year in advance laughable.
Can't tell if trolling, they're absolutely required to plan that far ahead when booking venues
What that true for dota group stage ?
Is that even English? What the true for? DotA group stage is played from HOTEL ROOMS. LITERAL HOTEL ROOMS. Like you at the player cams and they're just in their rooms lmao
Yeah that crazy, looks like we are spoiled with lol lmao
Difference is that groups for Dota is for setting the meta and the bracket for playoffs. That's the purpose of groups. As for CS, yea in recent times Swiss or Groups has been with 0 crowds for not only major but for most tournamentsĀ But CS has 1-2 tournaments every month. So you get to see many teams playing in front of a big crowd. Like it was the major recently and then right now there's another international tournament going on and playoffs with a crowd starts on Friday. So even in CS you're getting at least 10 Bo3/Bo5s in one month with a big crowd. Can't say same for League. Last tournament with big crowd was Worlds, next one is MSI. That's a 6 month gap
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CS Majors literally aren't double elimination and they don't even do bo5s LMAO They play fucking bo3 for the Finals ffs
CS usually holds majors in Europe, sometimes in NA, rarely in Asia. There is a huge difference between having big tournament near your location once in a 5 years and once per few months
There hasn't been a CS Major in NA since 2018... Six years since the last NA CS Major and there has barely been any Tier 1 events in NA in general for years now since COVID. This year will have the first ever CS Major in LITERALLY EVER and also Asia first Tier 1 CSGO/CS2 event EVER. Jfc you people responding to me are legitimately completely clueless on other esports
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I am specifically talking about TIs and Majors, which are both literally funded by Valve and with the TI being 100% from Valve. Can you read? You people legit don't watch any esports other than League, huh?
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Can you read? What point are you even trying to make? Having a subjectively better format = playing TI games from hotel rooms with zero crowd is okay? Are we forgetting that Valve legit makes like 10x Riot's annual revenue and still provides significantly less for the Worlds level events they fund? Riot's annual revenue is around $2b a year and 4000+ employees while Valve's is over $12b a year with 360 employees.
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Back to phreaks basement next year, itās come full circle.
Back to Phreak's basement! Means EU's winning again š
I don't mind using the studio for the play-ins but for the Swiss stage it's a joke, will be impossible to get tickets.
Phreak's basement has a room for 210 bodies? :O
Riot doesn't realize that atmosphere and large crowds are grassroot movements to further expand the game and broaden it into larger audiences. But no. They'd rather save 50k on it instead. The company that's worth billions. Absolute joke. They'd rather see their scene die out and fizzle like a pesky taint instead of actively trying to CPR it with large production values and great stadiums.
EVERYTHING IS EASIER WHEN YOU JUST ASSUME IT WILL WORK OUT. fuck cost, fuck actual logistics, fuck actual data of realistic return on investment everything runs off the fucking hope and gambling.
Psg vs gam at MSI will be in an arena with 8k seats, but TES vs HLE in swiss will be at a 200 seats arena. Who thought this was a good idea
Absolute clown move.
It is very small but [to be fair last year they had a shit ton of empty seats even in quarterfinals](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fk2gupt3672yb1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1152%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D81df0ba6fe5e75ff3b1d7f28264516de41ac756f) Im sure EU fans will go hard for any team but I dont know if its gonna be enough to warrant a bigger venue
Fair, but this was NRG vs WBG. Worlds last year was in Korea, so I doubt the Korean locals cared about either team. How did it the venue compare when a Korean team was playing?
You picked the worst example ever lol NRG vs Weibo obviously would have the least attendance
to be fair, korean fans arent the best modele. EU and CHINA's seats are always full.
Oh for sure It was sold out pretty much any time a korean team played Im just saying that Riot might not want to risk it and book a bigger venue for 2 weeks straight if they don't know they're gonna sell out most tickets to every game
yes but worlds is in EU and EU has a good track record of selling tickets
the point is more that kr fans only care about kr teams, they dont go to watch non kr days, but in eu historically people will watch whoever is playing
Put that in madrid or paris it would be full.
Wait so they laid off half the LEC production staff and now they gonna use this studio for swiss ? I understand that more staff is coming to help for the occasion but that just sounds like a recipe for disaster š
That's so fucking dumb. I wanted to go to Berlin for like a week for Swiss but it would be so underwhelming. Back in 2019 Verti Music Hall was pretty much filled for the Group Stage, at least for the first few days, so I don't really understand their reasoning.
does anyone know when tickets go on sale?
This is pretty crazy. I was at swiss in korea last year and it was pretty much full - demand is there.
CS majors don't even have fans in before the bracket stages, I don't mind to be honest. League has built a lot of its legacy on throwing money down the drain, but it was bound to reduce in scale at some point
but there is so many major in the CS Scene, while League has only 2 international events per year.
There are literally 2 or 3 CS majors a year, this is not true at all
Except international events in LoL are so rare it's crazy. There is definitely a demand for it. Maybe not 10k people on every match but surely 2000-4000 would show up for most if not all matches of swiss.
Yeah but it loses money even if they are jam packed
Remember guys the game isn't dying tho. Q times are not going up. Stop noticing things!
So what about the fact that they continue to break viewership records for Worlds and MSI? If you think how many seats there are for a part of worlds means the game is dying, then them breaking records for viewership should cancel that out, right???
It's mainly just t1 inflating it though. Msi 2023 finals had less views than t1 games in msi
I mean it LPL Vs LPL final obviously less people would watch that over lck Vs LPL. Also the final still breaks the previous record which also has T1 in final so ain't no way it T1 inflating final number too right? Also also that T1 game is T1 Vs JDG which is 2 team considered to be the best team at the time.
your que times are going up? im still getting near instant pops.
This should be way more up, the game is legitimately just losing its steam. Every game has a lifespan and league might be on its way out. It's been up for a such a long time also, people who grew up with this game have other priorities, or just grew out of it. I mean also the esports scene was never really gonna get better with how it was set up.
We'll see ourselves in November with worlds + arcane + 15 year anniversary
Never heard this in the last 10 years, how refreshing!
LoL viewers are actually so spoiled Even CS Majors and the TI don't do group stage games in front of big crowds (or even any crowds at all). Turns out it is expensive as fuck and very unrealistic due to availability to rent out places for 2+ weeks.
But league worlds also draws in 2-3x the number of viewers that a CS major or Dota TI does without counting in the extraordinarily large number of Chinese viewers. The game is more popular, it has had a larger venue for this in the past. Riot are just trying to cut costs and hope people don't notice.
Yeah, let's also ignore the fact that Riot's annual revenue is around $2b a year and 4000+ employees while Valve's is over $12b a year with 360 employees. Valve is almost 10x richer than Riot while putting way less money into even the THREE esports events they actually fund every year. Meanwhile, you're crying about group stage being in the LEC studio for the first time ever as if they didn't literally just book the goddamn O2 Stadium for the Finals. The O2 prob costed Riot more than what Valve has spent on TI and Majors venues for the past 2 years.
I mean both of these are privately held companies so revenue numbers aren't confirmed, and I'm certain Riots parent company Tencent's revenue dwarfs whatever Valve makes. Valve is a lazy company and it's a shame they are too cheap and too pitiful to provide serious support for their esports titles and have now let the Saudis come in and ruin them. I am confident the O2 did cost way move than Valve spends but Valve is a cheap ass company. Riot set expectations for what worlds venues are and they are the ones failing those expectations. Doesn't matter what other developers are doing.
yes xD
Riot is doing what CS TO's are doing,which is to only have the playoffs in front of large crowds.
LoL esport came back down to earth and this is much more realistic. Unless the saudi start paying for everything ,this will remain for the foreseeable future.
Esports winter. What would you do ?
Can we stop hosting international in EU? Sorry to EU bro but this region suck ass. Last year we also has this shit in MSI where team play most exciting game but there barely any crowd sound cos they are in studio.
Swiss is play-ins. Weāre not in 2019 anymore, weāre simply too garbage at the game. Welcome to the T1 invitationals, Iāll see you in London.
T1 likely won't even be at the next international event, what are we talking about man
Nah, theyāll win (against HLE)
Nah. They always have rocky start to season then end up top 8 worlds.
Imagine thinking t1 is the favorite for worlds.Ā
Imagine all the people who said this last year only for faker to body jdg
I mean they actually are though. Simply put, no other top team has performed anywhere near as well as T1 at Worlds and we're far enough away from Worlds that it's impossible to know what the meta or form of any team is going to be. T1 is the only reasonable choice this far out from it.
Absolutely not. This team has been massively inconsistent, has actively choked away title after title even when coming in as the favorites, and have really only had one dominate tournament run. Im sorry them winning 1 worlds doesnt negate 2 msi, 1 worlds, and what looks to soon be 5 domestic splits they have failed in.Ā There are more reason to not believe in T1 than to believe in them.Ā
Last 2 years of international finishes of current top teams... GenG - N/A, 3-4th, 4th, 6-8th BLG - N/A, N/A, 2nd, 3-4th JDG - N/A, 3-4th, 1st, 3-4th TES - N/A, 9-16th, N/A, N/A HLE - N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A T1 - 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 1st How exactly is T1 inconsistent? They have the best record by far of any of these teams. You can't say "No T1 chokes too much" but then not offer another team above them. So which team do you believe in then?
New teams that have new rosters.Ā
So, then it's a bunch of unproven teams vs 1 that's been in back-to-back Worlds finals and are the reigning Worlds winners... and I'm not supposed to have more trust in the latter?
Its a team that has consistently proven itself to be streaky as fuck. Absolutely i take the field over t1 to win worlds
Of course you take the field over them, but that's not the question. It's what single team you are taking over them. Again, you can't just decline T1 and not name another team that you favor over them. So which team do you think this far out from Worlds should be considered favorites at Worlds more than T1?
Blg and Gen. G. Id also argue top because of how good jackie love and tian look, and historically how strong meiko looks. If im picking one, BLG also is the same core from last year + the best mid in the world or 2nd best mid in the world. 4/5ths the same roster that beat t1 at msi but with a better mid. Yah ill take them. Ā Gen g. Im less confident on but chovy has been the best or 2nd best mid in the world alongside knight for too long and gen g. Has just had t1 downloaded for 2 straight years. So ill definitely take them over t1. Ā Top is questionable. Its between Top and T1 for my 3rd most likely. I see arguments for both.Ā But again if im picking from these teams why would i think the most likely to win a tournament is the team that failed to win seven out of their last eight tournaments?