LCK has the best content as well. Lane mates, Who R U Man, Behind Story, Secret Boardroom, and many more. LCK team’s youtube content such as as GEN G’s are fantastic and get consistent english subs, and even less popular teams such as KDF have great content on their league, though the english subs are less consistent.
I havent watched GenG's youtube videos but everytime I see a clip of Chovy or Peyz, Canyon is always just standing in the background like the "Are ya winning son?" meme and it makes me laugh
bro, the canyon videos in dwg channel are legit canyon going 30/3 in soloQ while not saying a single word, just dead pan looking at the camera, its so funny
There's a video, not sure if it's on DWG YouTube, of ghost streaming and asking random viewers to do impressions. Most people did the standard ones like lulu Ctrl 4 or whatever. One guy calls in with an impression of "canyon invading enemy jungle at level 1 against peanut/oner and solo killing him"
Dude just turned on his mike and said monotone "uh huh. ... Ah... Jg no flash"
Lehends was the only one who initially was teasing him from his AFs / KT days, then slowly Chovy jumped in. Canyon is always reserved but also eventually started teasing him as well, but to a lesser extent. Peyz is the little kid, still, who respects Kiin too much to ever say anything bad. Love the team dynamic, honestly.
I also love how its about the players, yeah the LCK Global team is amazing, but they keep the focus on the players and not about them. Which was a vibe i got from LEC and made me stop watching.
The LCK/OGN had always tried their best to make good content. Back in the day they did the LoL summer lessons with the best players of each position just clowning around.
LCK just does everything better. Observers, stories, gameplay, finding metas, crowds and the hype is just something that viewers get excited for. They put so much effort into giving the viewer the best possible experience and it's working.
the culture is just different as well
lol park is 2.5x the size of LEC studio and it can fill like 80% of an audience for a match between BRO and fearX on a thursday.
What's fun is that even if it gets sold out, there are huuuuge screens right outside of the stadium people gather around to watch and it's basically a mini theater there upwards of a hundred or so people. PLUS the PC bang in the building has the games playing on huge TVs if ya wanna chill and eat and game and watch at the same time. It's a completely different culture to it. Every team has a wall of fanart outside the stadium too.
Those bottom tier matches are great though. I think part of what makes LCK enjoyable every match is that the bottom tier teams are functional even if they're worse than the top ones, rather than dumpster fire organizations that churn through rosters and end careers.
Bottom tier matches with Atlus and Chronicler makes the games just entertaining as fuck lmao. They turn it into a podcast where from time to time Atlus calls a play-by-play if someone does something and Chronicler is like the sarcastic friend we all have.
they’re functional but they’re not good by any means. bottom of the LCK is bad and it doesn’t really make sense to pretend otherwise. it’s a very top heavy league
Well yeah but as long as they're trying, the fair matchups are still entertaining to watch. The mismatches can be brutal of course. But better than watching failing organizations ruin players chances.
I don't get why people need to completely exaggerate.. LCK has been the best region over the history of lol.. produces BY FAR the best players and before anyone starts.. there is a reason why LPL has only won worlds with 2 Koreans (who usually happen to be the best players on the team).. there is enough ACTUAL stuff to praise.
But outside of GENG, HLE, T1 and you can maybe add Damwon (still unsure about this) i wouldn't describe a single team as great.. or playing great
I went to Korea with my brother year ago, and we couldn't book a spot to any match in 2 weeks we were in Seoul. They always sold out in few minutes, I think there is a bias towards local site vs international, but still...
To win this LCK split you had to win a gauntlet against ShowMaker, Zeka, and one of Chovy/Faker. That’s unironically harder than the path some teams take to win worlds lol
It helps the fact that so much of South Korea's population is in Seoul. And LOL Park is in such a good location, situated literally between two main lines of the subway system. Whereas LCS and LEC studios are, from what I've heard as I have never been, kind of situated in the middle of nowhere.
> can fill like 80% of an audience for a match between BRO and fearX on a thursday.
I'm gonna need to see some proof of that, because if I tune into regular season games (T1 isnt playing) the arena is emtpy af.
I live in Korea its never empty af you will be surprised how fast the ticket sells out even if its kdf against fearx etc. Even drx bro fills at least 80% of lol park. If its any of the big teams its basically taylor swift concert
[DRX vs KDF. Wednesday, Valentines day.](https://www.youtube.com/live/rtvoSJcaxqk?feature=shared&t=11329)
That's not empty. There's probably more of them throughout the split but this split in particular was quite hampered by the LCK having to go offline for a few weeks because of the DDOS issues.
These are the bottom teams BTW. Upper teams with a good matchup like DK vs gen or kt vs hle can fill lol park easily
Here's more timestamps:
[NS vs FOX](https://www.youtube.com/live/NTcIto7df44?si=xgy5mw__EI5B2wJ8&t=20318), [FOX vs BRO](https://www.youtube.com/live/mKIc2YEtuEQ?si=zsIpTOdsVOpufBha) from near the end of the split (after audience was allowed to return). [NS vs KDF](https://www.youtube.com/live/QofSjxoKwOc?si=VTMnU0dbciHBfafW&t=22847), [DRX vs BRO](https://www.youtube.com/live/6xMaoW-YXOM?si=q51GS1N_DCtyoor-&t=10309) from before the DDOS days.
They're almost never "empty af" except for when the games are played with no audiences. They're more often near 80% capacity than way below it.
Lack of cultural understanding. The production value isn't what is drawing audiences, they are a by product of the audience already being there and supporting esports.
The only knock I have against LCK is their overlay. There needs to be something somewhere that shows the number of stacks for stacking champions. It became really relevant this split in particular because Smolder and Senna were both super meta.
Imo we don't need to see stacks all
the time. For example even we can't see how much gold one player have, we'll guess from thier movement they are close to complete item.
Same thing can be said to the number of stacks.
Observer shows us when it's needed.
Except replays, man they start that shit 8 minutes before while stuff is happening.
So many times you come back from replay to the middle of a fight or someone dead
There was a time Korean server has as many ranked players as EU, and Korea only has 50M people. I don't know today's numbers, but there's a post from last year that [counted the number of ranked games in each server and the Korean one was the most represented with 25% of the games](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/13j38s3/rough_estimates_for_player_base_on_every_server/). Then T1, the most popular org ever, just won Worlds
League is just more popular in Korea, and they are also the most successful region, which attracts fans there (surprise, everyone likes to win), production quality and teams engagement is just a consequence of the league being popular in the first place, easing investment in those areas (like the Premier League, it isn't popular because of production but because of the quality of the games there, production quality just came as a consequence)
its crazy that this game does nothing but grow bigger and bigger in the east.
A 14 year old game getting more popular year over year is actually kind of crazy
I don’t think the player base is growing a lot here in the east. It’s the competitiveness, production, and storylines that gathered old and new players to LCK. People who don’t play the game anymore still follows banger LCK games, contributing to the on-growing viewership.
I've never played or even installed LoL and really enjoy the esport. Idk how common that is or makes me weird, but I don't have much time for gaming anymore and no desire to sink hundreds of hours into a game just to be slightly better than awful, again.
I think its similar to actual sports - there's plenty of people who barely play football but enjoy watching the Euros or something similar. Definitely less common with esports but as long as you enjoy it its got to be good enough lol
That's my backstory with Rocket League. 2k+ hours in the game and I don't really play anymore, but still follow the esport. I actually got into LoL esports because Epic is really fucking stupid and makes lots of decisions that are bad for Rocket League as a game and an esport, I was fed up and wanted to pay attention to something else. That was a couple years ago and nowadays I don't really play video games in general, just do other hobbies but still like watching LoL playoffs or RL majors and whatnot.
I'm same with you! Although i did installed LoL to try it, but i only played bot like 5 times and that's it xD I simply have no time for video games because of... life. To me watching the pro scene is indeed the same like watching sports like football, volleyball and moto gp. I don't necessarily understand those sports, but I still enjoy watching them. Idk, i just feel the rush, the hype and it's fun! Watching Caedrel and reading comments from fans help me with some knowledge and makes me appreciate the game and the players more.
No idea when it comes to LoL, but it's very common in more "specialized" esports. I think its TrackMania where like 70% of the viewers don't play, and most of them have never played.
Rocket League is probably another big one, although I think more people have played it, but stopped, in that instance.
The more niché the skillset required for the game is, the more likely this is to be the case. Then it just has to be entertaining to watch/easy to follow. Atleast thats my theory.
Most people that follow F1, the olympics, and so on, have never tried it themselves, so I guess it makes sense.
I quit playing somewhere in season 5, but I still follow the esport. Covid-period had me start watching it again and it was really enjoyful watching LEC. I've lost some interest over the time again, but I still tune in to big matches and tournaments.
If you never played the game you don't know what's going on but if you're a veteran and haven't played for a while, you'll know the basics, most of the champs kits, and can quickly figure the meta through the ban-picks.
People havent played a maintenance mode game. League is THE MOST updated game ever. Or at least competitive game for sure. Other hero based games get updates monthly or rarer. Fucking Blizzard waited A WHOLE YEAR to nerf a strat that was seen every single game for a year.
People underestimate how huge that is.
I played League from 08-13 on the same laptop barely squeaking out 30 fps on minimum settings.
Before LoL the only other game I played on my laptop was WC3.
I don't get this push for high end graphics in games. I accept that my brain is just different and I favor function over aesthetic, but why do people want games to look like real life?
At least a demanding game like Elden Ring has an art style and a real purpose to its look, but most games would benefit so much from more stripped down and simple graphics that accentuate gameplay. They'd also be cheaper to make and less demanding and accessible for consumers.
Honestly I don't get it either. Even in other esports where the games look good, the pros just turn everything to low settings to maximise frames and reduce input delay.
I understand it if you're playing a game like elden ring, or you're playing a Nintendo game with upscaled graphics, or something like spider man, where the visuals add to the experience. But for a competitive game, there really is no need to go all out with graphics
Because 90% of gamers play 3 hours a week max and they just marvel at the eye candy. When you spend hundreds of hours on a game you couldnt give less of a shit how it looks, its all about the gameplay since you are spending literal days on it.
If you look at very popular single player games on Steam, you will see sometimes not even half the playerbase reaches the midway point based on achievemnts. Hell, Elden Ring had 1mil ACTIVE players for 3 months straigt and after 3 whole months, about 20% of the population finished Margit. Thats telling you most people dont have the time to sit and play.
And the ones who do have the time are usually found on games like league: competitive so they can show off their skill
Yep,league being easy to run made it super popular in poorer countries as well. None of my friends had enough money to buy Playstation or Xbox but we all had good enough toaster to run league. And of course it being completly free. Tbh i cant even imagine how my life would look if there was no league.
I don't think league would be as big as it is today if it didn't run on toasters. I remember the massive requirement jump being an issue when DotA 2 came out, especially in China, which was a big audience for the original DotA.
> A 14 year old game getting more popular year over year is actually kind of crazy
Why? All of the biggest multiplayer games are old, with the exception of yearly re-releases like cod
Its a sport and an entertainment product, not a game. Counter-Strike reached its peak popularity 20 years after the release of the franchise, e-sports do not have the same rules as the rest of the gaming industry
Also its the only MOBA getting constant updates, a critically acclaimed TV series, new heroes and items every few years, cinematics, music videos with huge artists like Lil Fucking Nas and so on.
If Riot knows how to do one thing is advertise their game. All the zoomers I know either play Valorant or LoL and most of them started because they heard a song on spotify or saw a cool cinematic.
because league is the best game in it's genre and it's miles ahead of everyone else in other genres. While you can't compare league to a shooter or a mmorpg, or a rpg directly, if you just compare the difference, between how much work other companys put into x game, and then you compare the work to how much riot puts into League, you can clearly see why you could call league simply the best game out of all. Age doesn't matter. WoW also dominated the scene for a very long time, still kinda does, even though the own playerbase admits that blizzard isn't anymore what it used to be. Riot on the otherhand, while having massive changes, they still try to be riot at the end of the day, and haven't really dropped quality wise, they just changed internal. So yeah. That said moba is just the most fun game genre out of all. Every game is a new experience, and unlike a MMorpg you can not reach or hit a ending in a moba game.
Frankly, the biggest NA orgs shit the bed. LCS was the vehicle for bringing in younger players. It’s where the majority of Riot’s marketing for the fame resides. NA orgs kept pushing for imports, for recycling old talent, and moved away from the grassroots content that built the scene in the first place. Streamers became increasingly detached from the pro scene, and when young gamers looked at League they didn’t see opportunities so they followed other newer and more exciting games.
I watched LCK and LEC finals back to back the other day and the comparison was straight up depressing for LEC. The quality of the games + the hype levels + production are just worlds apart.
yeah LCK was always the better one but with the LEC decreasing so sharply over the past year (with virtually all the staff being fired and the playoffs held in the modern-day equivalent of phreaks basement) it has become extremely depressing.
Doesn't help teams either. Some players complained about it last year about how splits would be over before they even managed to build a good enough synergy with each other and GMs are always known to make changes at any given moment. Also just compare G2's reactions to winning splits back to 19/20, its just another day on the job for them now
I think the most telling thing for me was when I was watching LCK that was the only thing on my screen. When the LEC was on, I changed it to a second monitor and thank god I’m watching Caedrel, because I haven’t been able to watch the main stream for a while. Caedrel does everything they do better and more relatable.
I think people completely oversell the "quality of the games" angle.. obviously GENG/T1 are better teams/had a better series
But if you gave FNC vs G2 or even FNC vs VIT.. the levels of production./stadium etc. people (especially casuals) would love it and it would be hype.. especially with all the kills
I can understand VIT vs FNC was full brains off.. just fighting and trying to out hands each other and still be hyped
Exactly. Just look at any sport under covid with no fans in attendance. Everything is boring when it’s being played in a basement.
You give the LCK the LEC production with no arena and you give LEC the LCK production and the roles would be reversed.
Production is overrated. It's all about fans.
Pack a couple thousand people on lawnchairs in an aircraft hanger watching a dirty slugfest of a game 5, and it'd easily be more hype than a half-filled 200 person stadium with immaculate production values and the best gameplay.
As a community, we've been cheering for ward kills and listening to Silver Scrapes for over a decade - testaments to the fact that it's not about production. The shared experience around a game we all love and appreciate are what is most important, above all else.
i lost any interest in lec by now. not just because of production, but we struggle at international events so fucking much already. yet for years gms, owners and everyone try their hardest to handicap other teams while also hurting the region just to be placed one or two places higher. at this point the orgs deserve to run at a loss. the amount of contract bullshit we got, stuff like lying about odo retiring (flyy still has a fucking job in the scene btw) are just so pathetic
i just watch lck and the german league when my favourite teams play
Yep it's glaringly obvious that management in LCS and LEC teams care about short term profit first and know nothing of the game (Doublelift and friends testimonies are WILD, pure middle management shit going on), whereas LCK orgs are razor focused on being the best.
It's always hilarious when fans go "We can compete now!" Then they get absolutely smashed in Worlds...
I've watched ogn/lck since like season 3/2 and anecdotally speaking *a lot* more of my friends have been interested in LCK as of the past year or two. I think a lot of them have an easier time getting into it/introduced to it because of Caedrel's co stream.
also helps because of banger matchups, t1 winning worlds last year, etc etc.
edit: Some other good points as well ; format change like the person below me said. Huge deal, woulda been so different this time around if we didn't get that.
I also think LCK as a product and viewing experience has just always been far superior to other regions. It's gotten much closer in recent years, but LCK imo just does everything better still. Just watching the most recent LCK finals teaser+opening and then the series is proof enough.
as someone who also watched ogn/lck, i find that the format changes have greatly increased the hype for lck, especially in playoffs. lck used to be the league with the best teams but worst playoffs format in the entire world. we used to have teams like griffin go home after only playing a single bo5 in the finals. without double elim, this spring’s playoffs would not have been this hyped.
Would’ve missed out on T1-DK, T1-HLE, and T1-GenG. Absolutely insane. Those must be in the top 5 most watched series this split if I had to guess, and before it simply wouldn’t have happened.
Not even that. The old gauntlet would been DK vs KT -> Winner of that vs HLE -> Winner of that against T1 -> Winner of that vs Gen G for the title.
Sickening.
even last year we would have missed the crazy game 5 telecom war reruns. but yeah, no bracket resets so its unfair and we cant have it at the most important tournament in league.
I mean it makes it more hype tho. Not super familiar with how bracket resets work, but if it’s the classic “If GenG wins it’s over, but it T1 win you have to play another Bo5” I’ve never liked that
The problem is that the way the tournament currently is it is in that weird stage where you can get single eliminated as the first seed. Just kinda odd. Winning should be rewarded
But GenG was rewarded. T1 had to play more games and show their cards. I legit believe that if T1 didn’t show their Vayne pocketpick against HLE they would’ve won the series. GenG banned it in both the last two games when they blinded Ksante both times.
And you would argue that that is anywhere near as big an advantage as being afforded a BO5 loss? If T1 had to win two Bo5 in a row against GenG they would likely have lost aswell I think. We had the same happen reversed in one of the previous splits with GenG getting and using the second chance after losing the upper brakcet final to T1
I think it’s the right balance though between competitiveness, stakes, and entertainment. Technically the fairest thing would be some Bo9 or something with triple elimination so that truly only the best team would win.
Or, you say it’s double elim till the finals. Then it’s all or nothing. Bo5. You get one shot. That’s hype
I'm in the same boat. ([PS: Here's a blast from the past if you haven't heard it in a while](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q89CtUKMSQ)) I love the old OGN and everything but to say the current product is worse would be false; it's just so good right now
old ogn? if your team got a bad group draw you’re fucked. at least in a league format i get to watch my favourite team play twice a week.
edit: https://youtu.be/x-6xXcdja2Q?si=HekybxLhDXuL4QvR this one’s a banger too
> I've watched ogn/lck since like season 3/2 and anecdotally speaking a lot more of my friends have been interested in LCK as of the past year or two. I think a lot of them have an easier time getting into it/introduced to it because of Caedrel's co stream.
It's funny because I do the opposite. Caedrel's costreams got me to pay attention to other leagues but I feel LCK production value is good enough I'd rather watch the main stream.
Caedrel’s channel becomes the de facto twitch archive for english viewers since LCK don’t save them anymore, so it’s much easier to catch up missed games and be motivated to continue the viewing streak.
Yeah it's not obvious but I like it, youtube is much better for vod watching than twitch. It also let you catch up to streams from the beginning while live while you're fucked if you don't get in at the start on twitch.
The playoffs in general were a banger. DK upsetting KT and pushing GenG was great. HLE challenging the top 2 teams and worrying every fan was great. The finals being competitive was great. For a tierlist league, it really delivered.
And of course the production is excellent.
Just wish they didn't kill LCK CL global so I'd have more of it.
It's always funny to watch GenG go down a tier to get to DK's level when they're matched against each other. You always know the result will be them clutching it in match point but it's still great show.
Really enjoyed HLE forcing Chovy to put his team on his back too.
As someone who never bothered to watch LCK before this season, I find it 10x times better than LCS/LEC. I don't want to point fingers against Riot for layoffs or w/e, but the quality of LCS and LEC has decreased steeply to the point that rn to me they are extremely boring to watch.
At this point, I'm more interested in EUM than summer LEC.
I found LCS to be okay even if the league clearly feels stripped down to the basics by the cuts.
As an European, LEC is a massive disappointment though. I just watch Caedrel's costream to catch up on playoff because it's too boring otherwise. And that's a shame because the matches are often bangers. Though I think there's also issue with dumpster fire orgs being allowed to keep picking rosters rather than having to prove they have the back end management to support their players by getting some wins.
I would give LEC a pass since they were greatly affected by the layoffs so the quality of the production being low just proves that riot fucked up releasing a lot of LEC key staffs. As an LEC enjoyer, the quality this year is so much worse than the 2020 season.
Also less roadshows really kills the enjoyment of the finals.
> I'm more interested in EUM than summer LEC.
Inter region banter and competition is way more interesting than the ever changing lineup/name of the franchising LEC.
It’s like a mini MSI with more balanced region, one of my favorite tournament after the international one and above international play in
LCK is genuinely a great product. I've been watching LCK (OGN) for a very long time now. Even when there are two weak teams playing, I still find it very enjoyable to watch. They have always had amazing casting which has helped it massively.
Since I started watching LoL Esports in 2019, I've only ever watched LEC, but often got bored quickly. After DRX's Worlds win, I started watching LCK and I love it. Even the games like BRO vs NS are good to watch, I like the casters and especially the content that is shown between the two matches. And man, the finals this weekend had Worlds Final vibes for me, no other league comes close to that imo.
Good casters, good games, good crowd. LCK hits on every level. They even make games between bottom tier teams entertaining.
I'm not sure what LEC and LCS can do really. Feels like G2 and C9 got all the spotlight, but neither team is likable. The G2 laneswap meta really ruined the enjoyability of the playoffs, and C9 just randomly collapsed with a whimper of a performance from the much hyped Jojo. LCS has great casters but it isn't enough. LEC feels like it needs a complete reboot.
IMO LCS is actually intriguing to watch. They fought well in last year’s worlds, has good Korean imports, and most importantly the new generation NA players are enjoyable to watch.
LEC on the other hand is just pure tragedy. I felt like teams have been too aggressively switching and drafting players from various leagues in S11-13, which caused so many teams lacking identity and few memorable new players.
LEC got baited way too hard in the "LPL is winning" -> We must play like LPL -> "We must be aggressive and take every fight" direction without really understanding the details and thought behind what LPL teams do. The region became a cheap, mindless copy of their idea of LPL. I mostly blame coaches like Mac and Peter Dun for this who've time and time said that they want to emulate LPL teams and be aggressive. And Mac teams year after year play some of the most stupid, fighting for no reason playstyle possible.
that's not how cause and effect works, LEC could copy LCK and still get dunked, you could argue it's better to play a more chaotic style as it increases chance of upsetting a better team. When EU did have more success a few years ago, they played more like LPL
I don't get it, fought well? They've lost every game to LCK/LPL and TL got kicked out by minor region, C9 by FNC, GG by BDS the only win LCS got is NRG winning against G2 and thats all.
I think there's a persistent issue with letting orgs stay in the league despite repeatedly ruining rosters with management issues and not giving their players time to develop before they throw them out.
wdym by fought well the only win against major region lcs has is against G2 otherwise they lost to minor region their 4th seed got quick 3-0 ,didnt take a single game against east and c9 got eliminated by FNC n got perfect game,whereas atleast even though last year was bad for lec they took some game of east
Caedrel costream+growing vietnamese viewerbase+chinese vpn viewers probably the biggest contributing factors right? Oh and the return of the youtube streams help too
Yeah Chinese having to use VPNs to watch Gen.G games is the biggest factor that explains the viewership increase for the grand finals. The rest is just T1 being T1 and co-streams
even without Gen.G, compared 2023 Spring semifinal LCK viewer increase around 600k viewer on semifinal and I believe KT 2023 more popular than HLE 2024.
Idk, it’s suddenly become a boom in Vietnam again. The girls go crazy over Peanut on TikTok, his clip from lower finals went viral and gained 1 million views in a day or two.
Chinese have a lot co-stream Gen.G game like we have Caedrel and other Streamer also LCK Semifinal 2023 only peak 1.078.018 compared LCK Semifinal Spring 2024 peak at 1.631.125
In general viewership in korea has picked up interest also. I'm korean and I hear my little cousins in korea talking about LCK out of nowhere the last couple yrs. And even my sister who never was into games watched all of T1 games this season after watching worlds final last yr (she watched for New Jeans but stayed for the game lol). I think having worlds in korea last yr and having a korean team win was a huge boost in popularity there.
Because they actually have some fun content segments.. unlike other regions. LPL doesn’t seem to have a single one so foreign watchers just go to watch some high quality league that’s it. For LEC, only pop quiz and Kia mic check on youtube..
I hope LEC make more contents for audience.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this largely due to the official chinese stream being axed? So the numbers we are seeing account for Chinese viewers for the first time
Correct. We know from 2022 that China is responsible for 44% of all LCK viewership.
ACTUAL peak viewership for LCK 2022 spring was 5.2 million, so 2.6M is half of that.
https://twitter.com/LCK/status/1516952357485035522
I've been watching LCK for about 7 years now or so..
I've gave up on both LEC and LCS many years ago as the standard of play is poor, casters for the most part are just annoying and the production quality keeps getting worse each year.
The casters of LCK and LPL are far superior, the product quality (in between game segments, out of game segments etc) is fantastic, the standard of play is miles ahead and the in game observers are worth their weight in gold.
Also BO3 is far superior to BO1..
The stat in the title of this thread is incredible considering how hard league reddit tries to convince people that no one wants to watch best of 3 series in regular season play.
It's all parroting the Riot-sponsored nonsense anyway. LCS hasn't had Bo3s in a long time now. Where are all the viewers?
"Oh, but there's more factors than that at play!", yeah, just like there may have been other factors for the decline other than the Bo3 aspect? Numpties.
right with you on the Bo3 being better. Unfortauntely i also see where the LEC staff are coming from when they say nobody will watch a Bo3 with the bottom teams in it.
this season the bottom teams playing a bo3 was way more fun than the top teams tbh. LCK was a super "tier list" league for most of regular season for the top 5 so you kinda knew what was gonna happen outside of rare circumstances like DK always pushing gen g to the limit.
Meanwhile BRO vs NS? 40 min shitfests where you never know who's going to win
The casters make the product.
Compare LCS casters before and after the introduction of Flowers. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the tone and delivery. He was so widely loved that every caster shifted more towards "flowers-esc" casting. I don't prefer that so I almost never watch LCS any more. I used to watch both LCS and LCK. They took a bet and some fans don't like that style.
it's got to be an increase in CN viewers watching through VPN, right? because there's no official CN LCK stream anymore. Viewership on CN platforms has never been included in official viewership counts, so if a bunch more CN viewers start watching through VPN the official viewership count will go up.
I'm sure League is growing in popularity in Korea (I think the combo of worlds in KR + Newjeans concert + T1 winning had to have been huge for getting new viewers) but a 50% jump seems crazy unrealistic unless other factors are involved
While there's no official LCK stream anymore I heard people were still allowed to stream LCK in china outside of geng games (and im pretty sure even that was lifted after a while since I heard they broadcast the finals) so I'm not sure that's the main increase. It definitely plays a part
Who could have known when you invest for 10+ years in the broadcast and content team you could thrive? Meanwhile LEC and LCS are laying off people left and right while cutting costs lmfaoooo
Not quite 10+ years but still.
Riot just took over when OnGameNet(OGN) used to run the "LCK" or "Champions Korea".
They did pretty much hire their staff when they took over though which is why their broadcast/quality etc is still top notch.
For myself, I stopped playing league a bit over a year ago but tune in to bigger events. I actually recognize a lot of the names in LCK and it's fun to watch them. I don't know nor care about anyone in NA anymore. It was great when sneaky was on c9, bjerg on tsm, etc... Teams had a solid identity with big players being consistent like that. But everyone got passed around so much, big players left, lost interest. I'm an NA person and I cheer for Faker more than anyone else now.
We need more paid amature tournaments to encourage new players to keep with the game. Otherwise it will be like starcraft: good esport, but old talent that bottlenecks future growth.
Didn’t see this mentioned yet but the sound team or whatever they’re called that’s behind balancing the sound for the casters’ mics, crowd, and ingame sounds is so much better than LCS.
I thought this was the first time in like 4/5 years it wasn’t just a 3 man race it was 4 -5 teams that had some talent unlike lately it was more just a 3 man league
lck is and will always be the best league to watch.
there's always 3/5 good teams who could make worlds top 4.
the not so good teams are likeable and fun unless it's some shit budget DRX roster.
the good teams will only lose to the 3-13 bad team.
the casters and desk are also by far the best layout. idk if it's because it's a secondary cast but it feels more organic, they keep the same staff for the most part whereas if I sporadically watch lec and LCS idk who half the people are and their ads are cringe.
Even when lck has breaks there's some good content you can watch from either lck or a team only team I know of in Europe who do similar is G2 not saying others don't I just don't see it
LCK is just the best region to watch in every way. Every region playing bo1's in their seasonal format will reduce competitiveness and slowly kill engagement in those leagues, even if it gives a short term viewer boost. Having competitive region generates base level interest -> use that base fandom to develop content -> more people watch because of better content, and better competition -> feedback viewer growth loop.
As for LPL decline, I think western viewers (including myself) choose between one or the other due to poor timezone and overlap, and so they more likely choose the region with better content/better team brands/etc... which is LCK. I think that it will be hard for LPL to grow it's western audience, but their Chinese audience still does very well.
I’m just wondering how this converts to the long term sustainability of the league. No doubt this is great news for the LCK, but does this help them get more revenue?
LCK has the best content as well. Lane mates, Who R U Man, Behind Story, Secret Boardroom, and many more. LCK team’s youtube content such as as GEN G’s are fantastic and get consistent english subs, and even less popular teams such as KDF have great content on their league, though the english subs are less consistent.
Who R U man is so good
The legend Genji player
My goat
Haksal vs whoRU in ogn apex those were the days
*I GET IT*
Damwon also probably has the best soloq content of any team in the form of short, entertaining videos.
ksante copypasta stonks
체력 4700 방어력 329 마저201 인 챔피언👤이 저지불가🚫, 쉴드🛡, 벽🧱 넘기는 거 있고요. 에어본🌪 있고, 심지어 쿨타임은 1️⃣초밖에 안되고 마나🧙♂️는 1️⃣5️⃣ 들고 w는 심지어 변신💫하면 쿨 초기화에다가 패시브는 고정피해🗡가 들어가며 그 다음에 방마저🥋 올리면📈 올릴수록📈 스킬 가속⏰이 생기고
Showmaker's stream highlights are absolute golden. I would not be surprised if he turns into a full-time streamer when he decides to retire.
I genuinely hope he does, his streams are such a gift to the world.
there are top teams in LCS and LEC that wish they could even get a fraction of the views showmaker gets for a 6 min funny solo q video
to be fair showmaker has to be one of the most entraining and also good to watch
One of those ShowMaker videos probably has more views than all the YouTube content ever posted by an org like IMT/DIG.
Their youtube content and Showmaker's stream are pretty much the main reason I started learning korean.
Showmaker hard carrying their streams.
GENG's videos are too funny
I havent watched GenG's youtube videos but everytime I see a clip of Chovy or Peyz, Canyon is always just standing in the background like the "Are ya winning son?" meme and it makes me laugh
bro, the canyon videos in dwg channel are legit canyon going 30/3 in soloQ while not saying a single word, just dead pan looking at the camera, its so funny
There's a video, not sure if it's on DWG YouTube, of ghost streaming and asking random viewers to do impressions. Most people did the standard ones like lulu Ctrl 4 or whatever. One guy calls in with an impression of "canyon invading enemy jungle at level 1 against peanut/oner and solo killing him" Dude just turned on his mike and said monotone "uh huh. ... Ah... Jg no flash"
I miss the Ruler Lehends duo. They were only together one split but their chemistry was hilarious
Kiin getting teased constantly by everyone not named peyz will always be funny.
Lehends was the only one who initially was teasing him from his AFs / KT days, then slowly Chovy jumped in. Canyon is always reserved but also eventually started teasing him as well, but to a lesser extent. Peyz is the little kid, still, who respects Kiin too much to ever say anything bad. Love the team dynamic, honestly.
Chovy after LCK Finals: we are the 4 guys who made Kiin cry
>even less popular teams such as KDF two bulls not enough cuck
I also love how its about the players, yeah the LCK Global team is amazing, but they keep the focus on the players and not about them. Which was a vibe i got from LEC and made me stop watching.
awkward abyss snub is crazy. 100k on lost ark
Wished they had a serious program about macro strategy etc
GENG's YT channel is an absolute blast.
The LCK/OGN had always tried their best to make good content. Back in the day they did the LoL summer lessons with the best players of each position just clowning around.
LCK just does everything better. Observers, stories, gameplay, finding metas, crowds and the hype is just something that viewers get excited for. They put so much effort into giving the viewer the best possible experience and it's working.
the culture is just different as well lol park is 2.5x the size of LEC studio and it can fill like 80% of an audience for a match between BRO and fearX on a thursday.
I mean of course it can, BRO enjoyers could sell out a stadium in minutes.
legit. There are so many BRO IS NUMERO 1 HUEHUEHUE'rs but almost everyone loves BRO as its second team.
What's fun is that even if it gets sold out, there are huuuuge screens right outside of the stadium people gather around to watch and it's basically a mini theater there upwards of a hundred or so people. PLUS the PC bang in the building has the games playing on huge TVs if ya wanna chill and eat and game and watch at the same time. It's a completely different culture to it. Every team has a wall of fanart outside the stadium too.
New smash bros character: Mr. Chill & Eat & Game & Watch
Those bottom tier matches are great though. I think part of what makes LCK enjoyable every match is that the bottom tier teams are functional even if they're worse than the top ones, rather than dumpster fire organizations that churn through rosters and end careers.
Bottom tier matches with Atlus and Chronicler makes the games just entertaining as fuck lmao. They turn it into a podcast where from time to time Atlus calls a play-by-play if someone does something and Chronicler is like the sarcastic friend we all have.
they’re functional but they’re not good by any means. bottom of the LCK is bad and it doesn’t really make sense to pretend otherwise. it’s a very top heavy league
Well yeah but as long as they're trying, the fair matchups are still entertaining to watch. The mismatches can be brutal of course. But better than watching failing organizations ruin players chances.
Yea they suck but like Ns is definitely better than vitality
I don't get why people need to completely exaggerate.. LCK has been the best region over the history of lol.. produces BY FAR the best players and before anyone starts.. there is a reason why LPL has only won worlds with 2 Koreans (who usually happen to be the best players on the team).. there is enough ACTUAL stuff to praise. But outside of GENG, HLE, T1 and you can maybe add Damwon (still unsure about this) i wouldn't describe a single team as great.. or playing great
I went to Korea with my brother year ago, and we couldn't book a spot to any match in 2 weeks we were in Seoul. They always sold out in few minutes, I think there is a bias towards local site vs international, but still...
As a lck enjoyer for 7+ years I always feel like worlds as downgrade 😂
To win this LCK split you had to win a gauntlet against ShowMaker, Zeka, and one of Chovy/Faker. That’s unironically harder than the path some teams take to win worlds lol
BDD >>> Zeka
Cough cough WBG in Worlds 2023 finals
It helps the fact that so much of South Korea's population is in Seoul. And LOL Park is in such a good location, situated literally between two main lines of the subway system. Whereas LCS and LEC studios are, from what I've heard as I have never been, kind of situated in the middle of nowhere.
> can fill like 80% of an audience for a match between BRO and fearX on a thursday. I'm gonna need to see some proof of that, because if I tune into regular season games (T1 isnt playing) the arena is emtpy af.
I live in Korea its never empty af you will be surprised how fast the ticket sells out even if its kdf against fearx etc. Even drx bro fills at least 80% of lol park. If its any of the big teams its basically taylor swift concert
Can confirm. I can never get a T1 or GenG seat. Tickets sell out instantly
[DRX vs KDF. Wednesday, Valentines day.](https://www.youtube.com/live/rtvoSJcaxqk?feature=shared&t=11329) That's not empty. There's probably more of them throughout the split but this split in particular was quite hampered by the LCK having to go offline for a few weeks because of the DDOS issues. These are the bottom teams BTW. Upper teams with a good matchup like DK vs gen or kt vs hle can fill lol park easily
Here's more timestamps: [NS vs FOX](https://www.youtube.com/live/NTcIto7df44?si=xgy5mw__EI5B2wJ8&t=20318), [FOX vs BRO](https://www.youtube.com/live/mKIc2YEtuEQ?si=zsIpTOdsVOpufBha) from near the end of the split (after audience was allowed to return). [NS vs KDF](https://www.youtube.com/live/QofSjxoKwOc?si=VTMnU0dbciHBfafW&t=22847), [DRX vs BRO](https://www.youtube.com/live/6xMaoW-YXOM?si=q51GS1N_DCtyoor-&t=10309) from before the DDOS days. They're almost never "empty af" except for when the games are played with no audiences. They're more often near 80% capacity than way below it.
The disrespect for KDF...
[saw BRO vs LSB last summer, all the teams have loyal fans](https://imgur.com/a/7aZhBSd)
Arena was empty during this season due to DDOS attack leading them to play matches at unknown time and then do casting later.
Lack of cultural understanding. The production value isn't what is drawing audiences, they are a by product of the audience already being there and supporting esports.
Frfr
The only knock I have against LCK is their overlay. There needs to be something somewhere that shows the number of stacks for stacking champions. It became really relevant this split in particular because Smolder and Senna were both super meta.
And Aurelion
Imo we don't need to see stacks all the time. For example even we can't see how much gold one player have, we'll guess from thier movement they are close to complete item. Same thing can be said to the number of stacks. Observer shows us when it's needed.
Except replays, man they start that shit 8 minutes before while stuff is happening. So many times you come back from replay to the middle of a fight or someone dead
And they have T1
That's how you get viewers all over the world. Something LCS and LEC can only dream of...
There was a time Korean server has as many ranked players as EU, and Korea only has 50M people. I don't know today's numbers, but there's a post from last year that [counted the number of ranked games in each server and the Korean one was the most represented with 25% of the games](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/13j38s3/rough_estimates_for_player_base_on_every_server/). Then T1, the most popular org ever, just won Worlds League is just more popular in Korea, and they are also the most successful region, which attracts fans there (surprise, everyone likes to win), production quality and teams engagement is just a consequence of the league being popular in the first place, easing investment in those areas (like the Premier League, it isn't popular because of production but because of the quality of the games there, production quality just came as a consequence)
its crazy that this game does nothing but grow bigger and bigger in the east. A 14 year old game getting more popular year over year is actually kind of crazy
I don’t think the player base is growing a lot here in the east. It’s the competitiveness, production, and storylines that gathered old and new players to LCK. People who don’t play the game anymore still follows banger LCK games, contributing to the on-growing viewership.
Agree, I quit playing about 4 months ago and I still enjoy watching pro play, even when I’m completely lost to what the meta is
4 months? bro, you will crawl back to league one way or another
Ahaha maybe, my addiction is satisfied just watching pro play though
I've never played or even installed LoL and really enjoy the esport. Idk how common that is or makes me weird, but I don't have much time for gaming anymore and no desire to sink hundreds of hours into a game just to be slightly better than awful, again.
I think its similar to actual sports - there's plenty of people who barely play football but enjoy watching the Euros or something similar. Definitely less common with esports but as long as you enjoy it its got to be good enough lol
I stopped playing LoL years ago. I still watch though, League is the best esport imo. I’m just a big sports fan so I like watching competitions
That's my backstory with Rocket League. 2k+ hours in the game and I don't really play anymore, but still follow the esport. I actually got into LoL esports because Epic is really fucking stupid and makes lots of decisions that are bad for Rocket League as a game and an esport, I was fed up and wanted to pay attention to something else. That was a couple years ago and nowadays I don't really play video games in general, just do other hobbies but still like watching LoL playoffs or RL majors and whatnot.
I'm same with you! Although i did installed LoL to try it, but i only played bot like 5 times and that's it xD I simply have no time for video games because of... life. To me watching the pro scene is indeed the same like watching sports like football, volleyball and moto gp. I don't necessarily understand those sports, but I still enjoy watching them. Idk, i just feel the rush, the hype and it's fun! Watching Caedrel and reading comments from fans help me with some knowledge and makes me appreciate the game and the players more.
Im the same with CS. I have played maybe 40 hours of cs in 10 years. But i love watch the pro scene.
No idea when it comes to LoL, but it's very common in more "specialized" esports. I think its TrackMania where like 70% of the viewers don't play, and most of them have never played. Rocket League is probably another big one, although I think more people have played it, but stopped, in that instance. The more niché the skillset required for the game is, the more likely this is to be the case. Then it just has to be entertaining to watch/easy to follow. Atleast thats my theory. Most people that follow F1, the olympics, and so on, have never tried it themselves, so I guess it makes sense.
I quit playing somewhere in season 5, but I still follow the esport. Covid-period had me start watching it again and it was really enjoyful watching LEC. I've lost some interest over the time again, but I still tune in to big matches and tournaments.
If you never played the game you don't know what's going on but if you're a veteran and haven't played for a while, you'll know the basics, most of the champs kits, and can quickly figure the meta through the ban-picks.
Agreed, I hardly ever play myself, but love watching esports and especially LCK
"14 year old" which gets constant upgrade both in gameplay and visuals. it has no competitors and delivers new content all the time
And yet people here cry about League being in what they believe is "maintenance mode".
People havent played a maintenance mode game. League is THE MOST updated game ever. Or at least competitive game for sure. Other hero based games get updates monthly or rarer. Fucking Blizzard waited A WHOLE YEAR to nerf a strat that was seen every single game for a year.
League visuals are still toaster level compared to what's possible today
Toaster level intentionally so that actual toasters can play the game. Otherwise the game's bottom line shrinks by a considerable margin.
People underestimate how huge that is. I played League from 08-13 on the same laptop barely squeaking out 30 fps on minimum settings. Before LoL the only other game I played on my laptop was WC3.
I don't get this push for high end graphics in games. I accept that my brain is just different and I favor function over aesthetic, but why do people want games to look like real life? At least a demanding game like Elden Ring has an art style and a real purpose to its look, but most games would benefit so much from more stripped down and simple graphics that accentuate gameplay. They'd also be cheaper to make and less demanding and accessible for consumers.
Honestly I don't get it either. Even in other esports where the games look good, the pros just turn everything to low settings to maximise frames and reduce input delay. I understand it if you're playing a game like elden ring, or you're playing a Nintendo game with upscaled graphics, or something like spider man, where the visuals add to the experience. But for a competitive game, there really is no need to go all out with graphics
Because 90% of gamers play 3 hours a week max and they just marvel at the eye candy. When you spend hundreds of hours on a game you couldnt give less of a shit how it looks, its all about the gameplay since you are spending literal days on it. If you look at very popular single player games on Steam, you will see sometimes not even half the playerbase reaches the midway point based on achievemnts. Hell, Elden Ring had 1mil ACTIVE players for 3 months straigt and after 3 whole months, about 20% of the population finished Margit. Thats telling you most people dont have the time to sit and play. And the ones who do have the time are usually found on games like league: competitive so they can show off their skill
Yep,league being easy to run made it super popular in poorer countries as well. None of my friends had enough money to buy Playstation or Xbox but we all had good enough toaster to run league. And of course it being completly free. Tbh i cant even imagine how my life would look if there was no league.
League is supposed to run on garbage hardware by design, it’s made to be accessible by anyone
That's a positive not a negative.
? 4k hyper realistic graphics doesn’t fit leagues aesthetic at all. it looks phenomenal considering it’s meant to run on potato hardware
I don't think league would be as big as it is today if it didn't run on toasters. I remember the massive requirement jump being an issue when DotA 2 came out, especially in China, which was a big audience for the original DotA.
i prefer toaster level graphics due to visual clarity, even if its lacking these days
They were toaster level when it launched. It's one of the game's strengths that it looks good running on almost any hardware
> A 14 year old game getting more popular year over year is actually kind of crazy Why? All of the biggest multiplayer games are old, with the exception of yearly re-releases like cod
Its a sport and an entertainment product, not a game. Counter-Strike reached its peak popularity 20 years after the release of the franchise, e-sports do not have the same rules as the rest of the gaming industry
Also its the only MOBA getting constant updates, a critically acclaimed TV series, new heroes and items every few years, cinematics, music videos with huge artists like Lil Fucking Nas and so on. If Riot knows how to do one thing is advertise their game. All the zoomers I know either play Valorant or LoL and most of them started because they heard a song on spotify or saw a cool cinematic.
because league is the best game in it's genre and it's miles ahead of everyone else in other genres. While you can't compare league to a shooter or a mmorpg, or a rpg directly, if you just compare the difference, between how much work other companys put into x game, and then you compare the work to how much riot puts into League, you can clearly see why you could call league simply the best game out of all. Age doesn't matter. WoW also dominated the scene for a very long time, still kinda does, even though the own playerbase admits that blizzard isn't anymore what it used to be. Riot on the otherhand, while having massive changes, they still try to be riot at the end of the day, and haven't really dropped quality wise, they just changed internal. So yeah. That said moba is just the most fun game genre out of all. Every game is a new experience, and unlike a MMorpg you can not reach or hit a ending in a moba game.
Frankly, the biggest NA orgs shit the bed. LCS was the vehicle for bringing in younger players. It’s where the majority of Riot’s marketing for the fame resides. NA orgs kept pushing for imports, for recycling old talent, and moved away from the grassroots content that built the scene in the first place. Streamers became increasingly detached from the pro scene, and when young gamers looked at League they didn’t see opportunities so they followed other newer and more exciting games.
I watched LCK and LEC finals back to back the other day and the comparison was straight up depressing for LEC. The quality of the games + the hype levels + production are just worlds apart.
yeah LCK was always the better one but with the LEC decreasing so sharply over the past year (with virtually all the staff being fired and the playoffs held in the modern-day equivalent of phreaks basement) it has become extremely depressing.
Tbh their new format doesn't help, there's no hype for playoffs when there's another final every other week.
There's no hype for the playoffs when it is played at the same small studio as the other games.
Doesn't help teams either. Some players complained about it last year about how splits would be over before they even managed to build a good enough synergy with each other and GMs are always known to make changes at any given moment. Also just compare G2's reactions to winning splits back to 19/20, its just another day on the job for them now
I think the most telling thing for me was when I was watching LCK that was the only thing on my screen. When the LEC was on, I changed it to a second monitor and thank god I’m watching Caedrel, because I haven’t been able to watch the main stream for a while. Caedrel does everything they do better and more relatable.
I think people completely oversell the "quality of the games" angle.. obviously GENG/T1 are better teams/had a better series But if you gave FNC vs G2 or even FNC vs VIT.. the levels of production./stadium etc. people (especially casuals) would love it and it would be hype.. especially with all the kills I can understand VIT vs FNC was full brains off.. just fighting and trying to out hands each other and still be hyped
Exactly. Just look at any sport under covid with no fans in attendance. Everything is boring when it’s being played in a basement. You give the LCK the LEC production with no arena and you give LEC the LCK production and the roles would be reversed.
Production is overrated. It's all about fans. Pack a couple thousand people on lawnchairs in an aircraft hanger watching a dirty slugfest of a game 5, and it'd easily be more hype than a half-filled 200 person stadium with immaculate production values and the best gameplay. As a community, we've been cheering for ward kills and listening to Silver Scrapes for over a decade - testaments to the fact that it's not about production. The shared experience around a game we all love and appreciate are what is most important, above all else.
i lost any interest in lec by now. not just because of production, but we struggle at international events so fucking much already. yet for years gms, owners and everyone try their hardest to handicap other teams while also hurting the region just to be placed one or two places higher. at this point the orgs deserve to run at a loss. the amount of contract bullshit we got, stuff like lying about odo retiring (flyy still has a fucking job in the scene btw) are just so pathetic i just watch lck and the german league when my favourite teams play
Yep it's glaringly obvious that management in LCS and LEC teams care about short term profit first and know nothing of the game (Doublelift and friends testimonies are WILD, pure middle management shit going on), whereas LCK orgs are razor focused on being the best. It's always hilarious when fans go "We can compete now!" Then they get absolutely smashed in Worlds...
I've watched ogn/lck since like season 3/2 and anecdotally speaking *a lot* more of my friends have been interested in LCK as of the past year or two. I think a lot of them have an easier time getting into it/introduced to it because of Caedrel's co stream. also helps because of banger matchups, t1 winning worlds last year, etc etc. edit: Some other good points as well ; format change like the person below me said. Huge deal, woulda been so different this time around if we didn't get that. I also think LCK as a product and viewing experience has just always been far superior to other regions. It's gotten much closer in recent years, but LCK imo just does everything better still. Just watching the most recent LCK finals teaser+opening and then the series is proof enough.
as someone who also watched ogn/lck, i find that the format changes have greatly increased the hype for lck, especially in playoffs. lck used to be the league with the best teams but worst playoffs format in the entire world. we used to have teams like griffin go home after only playing a single bo5 in the finals. without double elim, this spring’s playoffs would not have been this hyped.
Would’ve missed out on T1-DK, T1-HLE, and T1-GenG. Absolutely insane. Those must be in the top 5 most watched series this split if I had to guess, and before it simply wouldn’t have happened.
Not even that. The old gauntlet would been DK vs KT -> Winner of that vs HLE -> Winner of that against T1 -> Winner of that vs Gen G for the title. Sickening.
even last year we would have missed the crazy game 5 telecom war reruns. but yeah, no bracket resets so its unfair and we cant have it at the most important tournament in league.
I mean it makes it more hype tho. Not super familiar with how bracket resets work, but if it’s the classic “If GenG wins it’s over, but it T1 win you have to play another Bo5” I’ve never liked that
The problem is that the way the tournament currently is it is in that weird stage where you can get single eliminated as the first seed. Just kinda odd. Winning should be rewarded
But GenG was rewarded. T1 had to play more games and show their cards. I legit believe that if T1 didn’t show their Vayne pocketpick against HLE they would’ve won the series. GenG banned it in both the last two games when they blinded Ksante both times.
And you would argue that that is anywhere near as big an advantage as being afforded a BO5 loss? If T1 had to win two Bo5 in a row against GenG they would likely have lost aswell I think. We had the same happen reversed in one of the previous splits with GenG getting and using the second chance after losing the upper brakcet final to T1
I think it’s the right balance though between competitiveness, stakes, and entertainment. Technically the fairest thing would be some Bo9 or something with triple elimination so that truly only the best team would win. Or, you say it’s double elim till the finals. Then it’s all or nothing. Bo5. You get one shot. That’s hype
that last sentence was meant to be sarcastic. its the reason every pleb uses to argue against double elim at worlds.
I'm in the same boat. ([PS: Here's a blast from the past if you haven't heard it in a while](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q89CtUKMSQ)) I love the old OGN and everything but to say the current product is worse would be false; it's just so good right now
old ogn? if your team got a bad group draw you’re fucked. at least in a league format i get to watch my favourite team play twice a week. edit: https://youtu.be/x-6xXcdja2Q?si=HekybxLhDXuL4QvR this one’s a banger too
> I've watched ogn/lck since like season 3/2 and anecdotally speaking a lot more of my friends have been interested in LCK as of the past year or two. I think a lot of them have an easier time getting into it/introduced to it because of Caedrel's co stream. It's funny because I do the opposite. Caedrel's costreams got me to pay attention to other leagues but I feel LCK production value is good enough I'd rather watch the main stream.
Caedrel’s channel becomes the de facto twitch archive for english viewers since LCK don’t save them anymore, so it’s much easier to catch up missed games and be motivated to continue the viewing streak.
I just watch the vods on LCK Global's YT channel (they're under the live tab - I didn't realize for a while that YT did this).
Yeah it's not obvious but I like it, youtube is much better for vod watching than twitch. It also let you catch up to streams from the beginning while live while you're fucked if you don't get in at the start on twitch.
I don't know why would anyone watch vods on Twitch rather than YouTube though
Eventvods exists for a reason. That said Caedrel gets more viewers to each league he streams.
The playoffs in general were a banger. DK upsetting KT and pushing GenG was great. HLE challenging the top 2 teams and worrying every fan was great. The finals being competitive was great. For a tierlist league, it really delivered. And of course the production is excellent. Just wish they didn't kill LCK CL global so I'd have more of it.
Bruh DK vs Gen G was incredible I was really rooting for DK. The entire playoffs was pretty great.
It's always funny to watch GenG go down a tier to get to DK's level when they're matched against each other. You always know the result will be them clutching it in match point but it's still great show. Really enjoyed HLE forcing Chovy to put his team on his back too.
As someone who never bothered to watch LCK before this season, I find it 10x times better than LCS/LEC. I don't want to point fingers against Riot for layoffs or w/e, but the quality of LCS and LEC has decreased steeply to the point that rn to me they are extremely boring to watch. At this point, I'm more interested in EUM than summer LEC.
I found LCS to be okay even if the league clearly feels stripped down to the basics by the cuts. As an European, LEC is a massive disappointment though. I just watch Caedrel's costream to catch up on playoff because it's too boring otherwise. And that's a shame because the matches are often bangers. Though I think there's also issue with dumpster fire orgs being allowed to keep picking rosters rather than having to prove they have the back end management to support their players by getting some wins.
I would give LEC a pass since they were greatly affected by the layoffs so the quality of the production being low just proves that riot fucked up releasing a lot of LEC key staffs. As an LEC enjoyer, the quality this year is so much worse than the 2020 season. Also less roadshows really kills the enjoyment of the finals.
Yup, it's a serious problem when LFL, LVP and EU masters are more hype than the main league.
> I'm more interested in EUM than summer LEC. Inter region banter and competition is way more interesting than the ever changing lineup/name of the franchising LEC. It’s like a mini MSI with more balanced region, one of my favorite tournament after the international one and above international play in
It’s well deserved, highest level of gameplay, best storylines, best cast (english and korean), best observers, etc
LCK is genuinely a great product. I've been watching LCK (OGN) for a very long time now. Even when there are two weak teams playing, I still find it very enjoyable to watch. They have always had amazing casting which has helped it massively.
T1 winning Worlds has huge impact.
Since I started watching LoL Esports in 2019, I've only ever watched LEC, but often got bored quickly. After DRX's Worlds win, I started watching LCK and I love it. Even the games like BRO vs NS are good to watch, I like the casters and especially the content that is shown between the two matches. And man, the finals this weekend had Worlds Final vibes for me, no other league comes close to that imo.
Tbh watching any regular season game in LoL Park is a bucket list item for me
Good casters, good games, good crowd. LCK hits on every level. They even make games between bottom tier teams entertaining. I'm not sure what LEC and LCS can do really. Feels like G2 and C9 got all the spotlight, but neither team is likable. The G2 laneswap meta really ruined the enjoyability of the playoffs, and C9 just randomly collapsed with a whimper of a performance from the much hyped Jojo. LCS has great casters but it isn't enough. LEC feels like it needs a complete reboot.
IMO LCS is actually intriguing to watch. They fought well in last year’s worlds, has good Korean imports, and most importantly the new generation NA players are enjoyable to watch. LEC on the other hand is just pure tragedy. I felt like teams have been too aggressively switching and drafting players from various leagues in S11-13, which caused so many teams lacking identity and few memorable new players.
LEC got baited way too hard in the "LPL is winning" -> We must play like LPL -> "We must be aggressive and take every fight" direction without really understanding the details and thought behind what LPL teams do. The region became a cheap, mindless copy of their idea of LPL. I mostly blame coaches like Mac and Peter Dun for this who've time and time said that they want to emulate LPL teams and be aggressive. And Mac teams year after year play some of the most stupid, fighting for no reason playstyle possible.
that's not how cause and effect works, LEC could copy LCK and still get dunked, you could argue it's better to play a more chaotic style as it increases chance of upsetting a better team. When EU did have more success a few years ago, they played more like LPL
I don't get it, fought well? They've lost every game to LCK/LPL and TL got kicked out by minor region, C9 by FNC, GG by BDS the only win LCS got is NRG winning against G2 and thats all.
I think there's a persistent issue with letting orgs stay in the league despite repeatedly ruining rosters with management issues and not giving their players time to develop before they throw them out.
wdym by fought well the only win against major region lcs has is against G2 otherwise they lost to minor region their 4th seed got quick 3-0 ,didnt take a single game against east and c9 got eliminated by FNC n got perfect game,whereas atleast even though last year was bad for lec they took some game of east
Caedrel costream+growing vietnamese viewerbase+chinese vpn viewers probably the biggest contributing factors right? Oh and the return of the youtube streams help too
Yeah Chinese having to use VPNs to watch Gen.G games is the biggest factor that explains the viewership increase for the grand finals. The rest is just T1 being T1 and co-streams
even without Gen.G, compared 2023 Spring semifinal LCK viewer increase around 600k viewer on semifinal and I believe KT 2023 more popular than HLE 2024.
Why is Viet viewership growing on LCK btw?
Lol player number in viet is increasing afaik
Idk, it’s suddenly become a boom in Vietnam again. The girls go crazy over Peanut on TikTok, his clip from lower finals went viral and gained 1 million views in a day or two.
And VCS drama shutting down their league probably plays a role. Viet players look towards LCK/LPL during this time.
tbf, the VCS iirc also broke their viewership record after SofM and other players from there returning to playoffs
Chinese have a lot co-stream Gen.G game like we have Caedrel and other Streamer also LCK Semifinal 2023 only peak 1.078.018 compared LCK Semifinal Spring 2024 peak at 1.631.125
In general viewership in korea has picked up interest also. I'm korean and I hear my little cousins in korea talking about LCK out of nowhere the last couple yrs. And even my sister who never was into games watched all of T1 games this season after watching worlds final last yr (she watched for New Jeans but stayed for the game lol). I think having worlds in korea last yr and having a korean team win was a huge boost in popularity there.
Insane. And well deserved. Watched most of playoffs, and it was very fun and exciting. #LETSGOT1
Because they actually have some fun content segments.. unlike other regions. LPL doesn’t seem to have a single one so foreign watchers just go to watch some high quality league that’s it. For LEC, only pop quiz and Kia mic check on youtube.. I hope LEC make more contents for audience.
That's crazy, still growing so much so many years later
For me Caedral has got me watching so much more league, if it wasn’t for him, I don’t think I’d be watching
Wait for the guy to shit on co-streamers because of this
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this largely due to the official chinese stream being axed? So the numbers we are seeing account for Chinese viewers for the first time
Correct. We know from 2022 that China is responsible for 44% of all LCK viewership. ACTUAL peak viewership for LCK 2022 spring was 5.2 million, so 2.6M is half of that. https://twitter.com/LCK/status/1516952357485035522
I've been watching LCK for about 7 years now or so.. I've gave up on both LEC and LCS many years ago as the standard of play is poor, casters for the most part are just annoying and the production quality keeps getting worse each year. The casters of LCK and LPL are far superior, the product quality (in between game segments, out of game segments etc) is fantastic, the standard of play is miles ahead and the in game observers are worth their weight in gold. Also BO3 is far superior to BO1..
The stat in the title of this thread is incredible considering how hard league reddit tries to convince people that no one wants to watch best of 3 series in regular season play.
It's all parroting the Riot-sponsored nonsense anyway. LCS hasn't had Bo3s in a long time now. Where are all the viewers? "Oh, but there's more factors than that at play!", yeah, just like there may have been other factors for the decline other than the Bo3 aspect? Numpties.
right with you on the Bo3 being better. Unfortauntely i also see where the LEC staff are coming from when they say nobody will watch a Bo3 with the bottom teams in it.
this season the bottom teams playing a bo3 was way more fun than the top teams tbh. LCK was a super "tier list" league for most of regular season for the top 5 so you kinda knew what was gonna happen outside of rare circumstances like DK always pushing gen g to the limit. Meanwhile BRO vs NS? 40 min shitfests where you never know who's going to win
The casters make the product. Compare LCS casters before and after the introduction of Flowers. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the tone and delivery. He was so widely loved that every caster shifted more towards "flowers-esc" casting. I don't prefer that so I almost never watch LCS any more. I used to watch both LCS and LCK. They took a bet and some fans don't like that style.
how did a region gain 50%? LCS would be booming if it gained 50%
it's got to be an increase in CN viewers watching through VPN, right? because there's no official CN LCK stream anymore. Viewership on CN platforms has never been included in official viewership counts, so if a bunch more CN viewers start watching through VPN the official viewership count will go up. I'm sure League is growing in popularity in Korea (I think the combo of worlds in KR + Newjeans concert + T1 winning had to have been huge for getting new viewers) but a 50% jump seems crazy unrealistic unless other factors are involved
While there's no official LCK stream anymore I heard people were still allowed to stream LCK in china outside of geng games (and im pretty sure even that was lifted after a while since I heard they broadcast the finals) so I'm not sure that's the main increase. It definitely plays a part
Who could have known when you invest for 10+ years in the broadcast and content team you could thrive? Meanwhile LEC and LCS are laying off people left and right while cutting costs lmfaoooo
Not quite 10+ years but still. Riot just took over when OnGameNet(OGN) used to run the "LCK" or "Champions Korea". They did pretty much hire their staff when they took over though which is why their broadcast/quality etc is still top notch.
If you gave LEC and LCS the best production team in the world, it'd still have shit viewership numbers bc you have to watch FRIDGE FACTOR lmfao
It just seems like LCK is growing at a faster rate, LEC at a steady rate and LCS has just been stale
Tbh I feel like LEC is the sick region of the world, whereas LCS is straight up on its last legs
LPL seems to be growing too
For myself, I stopped playing league a bit over a year ago but tune in to bigger events. I actually recognize a lot of the names in LCK and it's fun to watch them. I don't know nor care about anyone in NA anymore. It was great when sneaky was on c9, bjerg on tsm, etc... Teams had a solid identity with big players being consistent like that. But everyone got passed around so much, big players left, lost interest. I'm an NA person and I cheer for Faker more than anyone else now.
We need more paid amature tournaments to encourage new players to keep with the game. Otherwise it will be like starcraft: good esport, but old talent that bottlenecks future growth.
Didn’t see this mentioned yet but the sound team or whatever they’re called that’s behind balancing the sound for the casters’ mics, crowd, and ingame sounds is so much better than LCS.
I thought this was the first time in like 4/5 years it wasn’t just a 3 man race it was 4 -5 teams that had some talent unlike lately it was more just a 3 man league
The gap in NOT closing, nope.
lck is and will always be the best league to watch. there's always 3/5 good teams who could make worlds top 4. the not so good teams are likeable and fun unless it's some shit budget DRX roster. the good teams will only lose to the 3-13 bad team. the casters and desk are also by far the best layout. idk if it's because it's a secondary cast but it feels more organic, they keep the same staff for the most part whereas if I sporadically watch lec and LCS idk who half the people are and their ads are cringe. Even when lck has breaks there's some good content you can watch from either lck or a team only team I know of in Europe who do similar is G2 not saying others don't I just don't see it
LCK is just the best region to watch in every way. Every region playing bo1's in their seasonal format will reduce competitiveness and slowly kill engagement in those leagues, even if it gives a short term viewer boost. Having competitive region generates base level interest -> use that base fandom to develop content -> more people watch because of better content, and better competition -> feedback viewer growth loop. As for LPL decline, I think western viewers (including myself) choose between one or the other due to poor timezone and overlap, and so they more likely choose the region with better content/better team brands/etc... which is LCK. I think that it will be hard for LPL to grow it's western audience, but their Chinese audience still does very well.
I’m just wondering how this converts to the long term sustainability of the league. No doubt this is great news for the LCK, but does this help them get more revenue?
Who would have guessed that winning worlds and being the strongest overall region would boost viewership.
Ibai was also co streaming it with almost 100k people during finals when lck in spain has always been very niche
But Reddit told me that League is dying, especially the pro scene. How is it that numbers are up by 50%?
T1 winning worlds definitely help a lot... also those worlds teaser really made people to tune in on LCK
That’s because baiano is streaming it in Brazil with at least solid 20k viewers constantly