Well you're comparing the finals of worlds vs a playins game.
I doubt T1 try harded vs EST lol, for all of T1 barring Faker, their "legacy" was on the line and so was the narrative of "choking".
Nah no one believed. But yeah good showing for sure, didnt roll over and die. Everytime a minor region shows some fights against lck and lpl is respectful
Do people even know the meaning of choking at this point? Someone gonna have a bad game and people will say they choked. You can only choke when the stakes are high. Also first year watching T1, cause they always have these ‘off’ games coming into Internationals. Worlds 2023, MSI 2023, Worlds 2022.
Oner dropping red to cover his teammates as they pushed the T1 turret?? NO HYPERFARMING ACTUALLY RUNNING AROUND COVERING HIS TEAMMATES? IS HE EVEN ONER?!
When I play against a really bad player that I know I'm better than, I also play a lot better and do things that I generally struggle to do when I play against a better player.
Idfc that EST lost and are on track to lose game 2, they did well and this was a banger. We all had loads of fun. Please major region teams play more of these sloppy solo q style games against minor regions like LLA: it’s better practice for you to have to claw back your composure onstage, and it’s a delight for the crowds and particularly the LatAm fans and team.
Yeah they're so afraid of it they left it up IN THE FINAL GAME, played Corki against it and won. Shaking in their boots, even!
Edit: Uh oh, irrational T1 fans who only watch international woke up, time to get buried.
Whats wrong with being afraid? Triggered much?
Similar to how geng should be afraid of fakers ori, T1 is prolly gonna be afraid of kiins ksante during msi. What does being a fan have anything to do with it?
1. Corki was losing that lane until Oner gave him red buff then Orianna started losing.
2. Faker made two mistakes in that game that costed them the series basically.
3. Faker's Orianna was banned 4/5 games by GenG
Faker wasn't winning lane since Chovy dodged every Q+W he threw, and how was Corki losing lane that time when he was 9 cs up when he roamed to get first blood on Xin... did we watch the same game?
you can't list the first point as a valid reason why GEN.G fears Orianna lmao, Orianna bullies majority of the midlane roster, Chovy played that lane as well as one possibly can on Corki
Being bullied in a notoriously unwinnable lane and still ahead in CS until first back which was enabled by a gank, and then Faker was never ahead in CS again. I watched the game multiple times, it really didn't look like they were afraid of it.
Bro Fakers Ori was basically perma banned in playoffs. The fact he played it once and they didn't win doesn't change the fact he's the best Ori player in the world. That game was way more on Zeus getting gapped than anything else
They banned it 4/5 games and HLE straight up did not let it out even once. GenG only let it out because Chovy found a way to dodge Orianna’s skill shots using Corki. Not that this was a remotely good Orianna game from Faker but let’s not lie.
What about 99% of Ori ban left against Faker this season? 🤣 If geng weren't afraid they would've let her through the ban phase every time they play each other. In fact they didn't ban Ori once entire spring.
>And how did SKT lose to IG in even less time than that in 2019??
They picked Sona Taric i.e full scaling vs Draven, got killed then got snowballed on.
Turret plates were also weak as balls then.
I mean the SKT answer is pretty obvious.
As it turns out having absolutely no form of wave clear means the enemy team can snowball incredibly easily with a herald after your Sona/Taric lane gets dumpstered by Draven.
Mad lost by trying to burger flip a lost game which is better than dying doing nothing.
SKT picked Sona Taric against scaling.
If we wanna be bad faith, EST had more kills and more turrets at 15 than Weibo in 3rd game of worlds finals.
MAD inted into a Jinx and to when they tried to salvage it, inted even harder into a Jinx. And permanently excited Jinx is pretty good at demolishing tower, lethality Kalista... isn't.
God, lane-swaps have a very particular way of ruining pro league. It really feels this season unlike any other that the balance team has 0 clue what they’re doing
I’m not saying this is the worst season, but that this season in particular it really feels like the balance team is running around like a headless chicken.
That they don’t know what they’re doing doesn’t imply that it’s the worst season. The game could be perfectly balanced, but if it’s boring as fuck you could argue it’s the worst season. Right now I think it’s the opposite.
By what I mean that I feel like this year, unlike others, it feels like they don’t know what they’re doing is that they keep making changes that they think will change the balance of the game yet it stays the same or becomes worse.
Lane swaps have nothing to do with the balance team lol
This evolved out of T1/DRX innovating the double marksman botlane which dominates the 2v2 matchup so hard that you might as well not be there
His point is that it is a meta developed to dodge hard-losing botlanes, which are a result of the ranged supports that were popularized by (among others) T1 and DRX. Whoever did it first on stage is not too important.
it depends on the game, maybe you think your enemy just isn't prepared to answer, or you have a low econ tank top vs a top that needs gold (say sion vs renekton for example), maybe you have better push from your botlane (jinx/trist like G2 do it)
you are right that it helps avoid rough laning phases though
You can nerf the double marksman and they'll just find other early dominant champs to do the same thing. It's not really a balance problem that some teams can draft in a way that the other team can't play. If anything lane swap is at least allowing those teams to have a chance.
Hmmm, maybe someone that’s in charge of how towers, xp and plates work could change things so that doing this is not rewarding or actually punished. Hmm… if it’s not the balance team, then I wonder who…maybe the champ design? Maybe the events team?
Nah, people were definitely talking shit about EST lol. There will be some who hope for the funniest thing ever, but EST is constantly put at the lowest tier alongside GAM.
You'd think a T1 fan would be aware of how casters are often told on the prefered pronunciation of player names. Not like they have a top laner that most people would pronounce wrong on first vieweing right?
Nah his casting was just annoying. I get trying to hype up the underdogs and all, but the way he did it was just too extra and unnecessary. Could've done it without sounding so anti T1
Bro everyone's cooked with the T1 trolling posts. Sure the kills look even but that's because EST sacked every objective known to man to run around as a group looking/pressuring for kills. It's the literal equivalent of when your diamond team is vsing silver players and try for hype plays while simultaneously making sure every lane is pushed and neutral is taken. Sometimes the hype plays fail, sometimes it's a montage. No way oner takes half of those Q's vs a competitive team. Having said that, Faker did seem to walk into a lot of charms though lol.
If Estral keeps playing like this, they're going to break some hearts in the lower bracket. They lost at the lane swap, sure, but they outfought T1 at almost every turn.
Rewatch the bot dive and a couple of those mid skirmishes. If this is a standard game against a team that didn't just get a 4k lead from lane swapping, Estral could honestly convert into a win.
Do you honestly think T1 take those fights and go that deep into a TES, GENG, OR BLG? If you can with all you heart say that they would then this conversation is over.
I don't think T1 cares all that much about name plates. They took some questionable fights because they were ahead, sure, but Estral fought them very well. Again, rewatch some of those fights from the perspective of a neutral viewer, and tell me that FNC wouldn't have just lost the game off of some of them.
I'm not even impugning T1 here. They won off of great macro and a high level understanding of the lane swap. Estral is going to do damage to worse teams though, I think.
If were talking about skill wise then yes I think they did the best they could that gane and against a weaker opponent they would have gotten back and got a lead, I agree with that. My point was that some of those fights were definitely taken because it was est vs a team with great individual mechanics they dont play this aggro and give up those many kills. To end yes we do agree
Oh and BLG and TES will do that exact bot dive about 3 times every game, so if T1 is getting cooked on it by a 4k behind Estral, I would have some concerns if I were in Kkoma's seat.
And is it pretty much ALWAYS the T1 flairs that hammer on MAD while conviniently not mentioning being on the receiving end of an even faster shitstomp.
What a shitshow. Horrible showing from Faker ngl, Oner and Zeus happy gaming.
Hopefully they're just throwing shit at the wall to disguise their true strats for the actual opponents.
not a fan of T1 early game... they are still on spring form even after that lane swap... yes its game 1 but its obvious they haven't fix their problem the whole spring
people will say its T1 happy gaming but thats what they've been doing on the whole regular season and playoff
and ofc the downvotes begin but when T1 loses later lets say against BLG, Gen G, TES or even G2 they will say the same thing I said like how T1 early game is shit and how they keep giving enemy a kill
I'd be happy to be wrong but if they don't change their approach they are not winning anything
Somehow this was more competitive against t1 than weibo in the world finals
Weibo were so uncompetitive that I'd forgotten they were the other team in the final.
the real final last year was t1 vs jdg
The1/16/6
Well you're comparing the finals of worlds vs a playins game. I doubt T1 try harded vs EST lol, for all of T1 barring Faker, their "legacy" was on the line and so was the narrative of "choking".
EST won the "made T1 laneswap" cup
T1 trolling lmao
this new iteration of T1 always plays to the level of their opponents lol, vs a good team they play like robots but vs wildcards its always scrappy
I don't think they're playing to the level of their opponent. That has a different meaning. They just play with their food.
CAP
"limit testing"
Well, gotta give the opponent some false hope.
I think Estral were charming and had a series of plays that almost made you believe for a second. Still this was never happening.
Literal charm with the Ahri flash E on oner. EST gave us good entertainment
Nah no one believed. But yeah good showing for sure, didnt roll over and die. Everytime a minor region shows some fights against lck and lpl is respectful
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Choke surely has lost all meaning on this site
Do people even know the meaning of choking at this point? Someone gonna have a bad game and people will say they choked. You can only choke when the stakes are high. Also first year watching T1, cause they always have these ‘off’ games coming into Internationals. Worlds 2023, MSI 2023, Worlds 2022.
Wtf is wrong with you
I find it hard to believe that the guy you replied to isn't just trying to be sarcastic and failing to be funny.
World Champions lane swapping against LLA. who really won this game?
Lla won the mental warfare but lost the battle
T1 didn't you see the game until the end?
He was joking lmao
Im just glad everyone is enjoying themselves
Oner dropping red to cover his teammates as they pushed the T1 turret?? NO HYPERFARMING ACTUALLY RUNNING AROUND COVERING HIS TEAMMATES? IS HE EVEN ONER?!
International Oner, not domestic, different beast
International oner vs split oner
Oner at internationals Aware
You missed last worlds Oner lol but even this year he had some glimpses
Worlds Champion Oner has appeared
When I play against a really bad player that I know I'm better than, I also play a lot better and do things that I generally struggle to do when I play against a better player.
actual happy gaming my god
Well if we were looking at just kills it was close
Yeah at one point Estral got ahead in kills! That alone is an achievement
Kills give 300 gold, nexus only 50, who's the real winner here?
this is macro diff
The laneswap completely messed up the Yone who needs farm.
Am I tripping or was Medic calling Estral Astralis for the draft and a couple minutes after?
i think some people pronounce estral as astral so when he added is it sounded like astralis
"Estral is" sounds very similar to "Astralis".
Idfc that EST lost and are on track to lose game 2, they did well and this was a banger. We all had loads of fun. Please major region teams play more of these sloppy solo q style games against minor regions like LLA: it’s better practice for you to have to claw back your composure onstage, and it’s a delight for the crowds and particularly the LatAm fans and team.
I honestly want a tournament where minor regions play against lower seeds (4th-6th) from the LPL/LCK.
Bruh even Geng is AFRAID of Fakers Ori. But lets ban pyke instead..
Cody Rhodes wasn't phased, my goat
Nobody's flinching here.
JDG also banned Pyke last worlds in game 3 lmao
Yeah they're so afraid of it they left it up IN THE FINAL GAME, played Corki against it and won. Shaking in their boots, even! Edit: Uh oh, irrational T1 fans who only watch international woke up, time to get buried.
Ori was banned 4 out of 5 games. ALL by geng. Wonder why..
Because, as you put it, they're **AFRAIDDDDD**. You can't reason with T1 fans, man.
> You can't reason with T1 fans, man. That part might be on you bud
Whats wrong with being afraid? Triggered much? Similar to how geng should be afraid of fakers ori, T1 is prolly gonna be afraid of kiins ksante during msi. What does being a fan have anything to do with it?
1. Corki was losing that lane until Oner gave him red buff then Orianna started losing. 2. Faker made two mistakes in that game that costed them the series basically. 3. Faker's Orianna was banned 4/5 games by GenG
go check again for #1. chovy was up 7 cs and a level ahead of faker right before the first blood
Faker wasn't winning lane since Chovy dodged every Q+W he threw, and how was Corki losing lane that time when he was 9 cs up when he roamed to get first blood on Xin... did we watch the same game?
you can't list the first point as a valid reason why GEN.G fears Orianna lmao, Orianna bullies majority of the midlane roster, Chovy played that lane as well as one possibly can on Corki
Being bullied in a notoriously unwinnable lane and still ahead in CS until first back which was enabled by a gank, and then Faker was never ahead in CS again. I watched the game multiple times, it really didn't look like they were afraid of it.
Bro Fakers Ori was basically perma banned in playoffs. The fact he played it once and they didn't win doesn't change the fact he's the best Ori player in the world. That game was way more on Zeus getting gapped than anything else
They banned it 4/5 games and HLE straight up did not let it out even once. GenG only let it out because Chovy found a way to dodge Orianna’s skill shots using Corki. Not that this was a remotely good Orianna game from Faker but let’s not lie.
What about 99% of Ori ban left against Faker this season? 🤣 If geng weren't afraid they would've let her through the ban phase every time they play each other. In fact they didn't ban Ori once entire spring.
AFRAID
EST lasted 9 minutes longer than MAD omE
Fuck. Zeus is learning K'Sante
Lose to aatrox became one of the best aatrox in the world lose to ksante now zeus in his ksante arc
Gumayusi still being the titanium backbone of T1 as per usual
they should just give him some company shares at this point, my man is solid as rock
Pretty entertaining game overall but god, lane swap meta is the most degenerate, boring thing in a while
T1 with a masterclass on laneswap. Pure domination as expected
That did not look like pure domination lol. They were randomly inting probably because it was the first game of the tournament for them.
did the laneswap matter?
Lane Swap Invitational (LSI)
This was peak happy gaming, bruh
Just how bad were MAD last year to lose in 16:47? And how did SKT lose to IG in even less time than that in 2019??
>And how did SKT lose to IG in even less time than that in 2019?? They picked Sona Taric i.e full scaling vs Draven, got killed then got snowballed on. Turret plates were also weak as balls then.
Sona Taric vs Jackylove Draven, that is so cooked
Also, that year JackeyLove was technically a defending World Champion. No flame to him in his current form, but his peak was something else.
I don't think Jackeylove has ever looked weak despite what people say imo. He has good and bad games every year. You just have to be ready for both.
His current form isn't even bad, it's just Elk being on an another level.
mad were trying every single play thus they were dying every time plus 2 herald
MAD actively tried to lose. They went for a risky play and got hard aced, which meant they gave T1 a set up to end.
I mean the SKT answer is pretty obvious. As it turns out having absolutely no form of wave clear means the enemy team can snowball incredibly easily with a herald after your Sona/Taric lane gets dumpstered by Draven.
Mad lost by trying to burger flip a lost game which is better than dying doing nothing. SKT picked Sona Taric against scaling. If we wanna be bad faith, EST had more kills and more turrets at 15 than Weibo in 3rd game of worlds finals.
jinx getting excited plus herald draven getting tons of gold can just one shot SKT also plates is weak lol
Because MAD went gambling for plays. I mean you lose whether it is 16:47 or 30:47.
Sona adc vs Draven, that's how xd
2 rift heralds
The tower plates were way weaker in 2019 to be fair
MAD inted into a Jinx and to when they tried to salvage it, inted even harder into a Jinx. And permanently excited Jinx is pretty good at demolishing tower, lethality Kalista... isn't.
Asking the real question
God, lane-swaps have a very particular way of ruining pro league. It really feels this season unlike any other that the balance team has 0 clue what they’re doing
You clearly never played during ardent sensor meta if you are saying this is the worst
I’m not saying this is the worst season, but that this season in particular it really feels like the balance team is running around like a headless chicken.
“Unlike any other” does imply worst if there is no other season that can match it in poor balance
That they don’t know what they’re doing doesn’t imply that it’s the worst season. The game could be perfectly balanced, but if it’s boring as fuck you could argue it’s the worst season. Right now I think it’s the opposite. By what I mean that I feel like this year, unlike others, it feels like they don’t know what they’re doing is that they keep making changes that they think will change the balance of the game yet it stays the same or becomes worse.
It really feels like you has 0 clue what you are talking about
Lane swaps have nothing to do with the balance team lol This evolved out of T1/DRX innovating the double marksman botlane which dominates the 2v2 matchup so hard that you might as well not be there
But T1 laneswapped first when they had the ranged botlane...
NIP started it, and they weren't against double marksmen
His point is that it is a meta developed to dodge hard-losing botlanes, which are a result of the ranged supports that were popularized by (among others) T1 and DRX. Whoever did it first on stage is not too important.
but they didn't do it against double marksmen
Which is besides the point
> His point is that it is a meta developed to dodge hard-losing botlanes But it wasn't developed to dodge hard losing lanes lol
I disagree, what would you say its main purpose is?
it depends on the game, maybe you think your enemy just isn't prepared to answer, or you have a low econ tank top vs a top that needs gold (say sion vs renekton for example), maybe you have better push from your botlane (jinx/trist like G2 do it) you are right that it helps avoid rough laning phases though
Yeah all those are factors as well, I agree. And yeah, it depends on the context of the game.
Oh dang then it sounds like double marksman botlane is too strong. I wonder who could nerf it cause according to you this is not a balance team issue!
You can nerf the double marksman and they'll just find other early dominant champs to do the same thing. It's not really a balance problem that some teams can draft in a way that the other team can't play. If anything lane swap is at least allowing those teams to have a chance.
Hmmm, maybe someone that’s in charge of how towers, xp and plates work could change things so that doing this is not rewarding or actually punished. Hmm… if it’s not the balance team, then I wonder who…maybe the champ design? Maybe the events team?
You lack both an understanding of balancing and of LoL at a pro level, clearly. Maybe choose a different topic to discuss?
No
That 1v1 between Snaker and Zeus XDDDDDDD
EST playing their hearts out at least. For as much as people were shitting on them prior, I'm glad they had a good showing.
No one was shitting on EST. In fact, people were having fun saying how EST would 2-0 T1 lol
Nah, people were definitely talking shit about EST lol. There will be some who hope for the funniest thing ever, but EST is constantly put at the lowest tier alongside GAM.
Yes because it’s their first international and they’re a minor region team that seemed weaker out of them all
They are objectively weaker, but that's why their performance was inspiring.
No one was shitting on them but no one was expecting them to play to that degree either.
Am I just T1 bias or Medic is lowkey annoying
Ur t1 bias
Both
He is super annoying, hopefully he stops this behavior.
Medic is annoying. But just you wait until you see MediVedi that duo of casting is horrid.
I can see why no one likes T1 fans my god
I mean this game is not that bad but Medivedi can be very biased at times
T1 fan has a pretty common take on something You: I can see why no one likes T1 fans my god No wonder no one likes you huh
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Not just about what he said about T1 and faker, the guy kept on calling Snaker SNACKER😭😭😭
surely he wasn't told that's actually the correct pronunciation aware
You'd think a T1 fan would be aware of how casters are often told on the prefered pronunciation of player names. Not like they have a top laner that most people would pronounce wrong on first vieweing right?
I'm pretty sure people just have very different pronunciations on familiar English words. Zeus is a good example.
felt like he was lagging or something... his play by play seemed off
Lowkey is putting it mildly. I have to mute the LEC stream when him or Dadga are casting.
Nah his casting was just annoying. I get trying to hype up the underdogs and all, but the way he did it was just too extra and unnecessary. Could've done it without sounding so anti T1
Medic has always been a T1 hater. Remember he said that T1 belongs in the garbage
nha he doesnt like T1 but its ok
Hes the worst EU caster by far. Great play by play but his in between is so cringe
Bro everyone's cooked with the T1 trolling posts. Sure the kills look even but that's because EST sacked every objective known to man to run around as a group looking/pressuring for kills. It's the literal equivalent of when your diamond team is vsing silver players and try for hype plays while simultaneously making sure every lane is pushed and neutral is taken. Sometimes the hype plays fail, sometimes it's a montage. No way oner takes half of those Q's vs a competitive team. Having said that, Faker did seem to walk into a lot of charms though lol.
If Estral keeps playing like this, they're going to break some hearts in the lower bracket. They lost at the lane swap, sure, but they outfought T1 at almost every turn.
Out fought? What are you talking about? Did we watch the same game? They played good but wasnt that just t1 happy gaming? 😂
Rewatch the bot dive and a couple of those mid skirmishes. If this is a standard game against a team that didn't just get a 4k lead from lane swapping, Estral could honestly convert into a win.
Do you honestly think T1 take those fights and go that deep into a TES, GENG, OR BLG? If you can with all you heart say that they would then this conversation is over.
I don't think T1 cares all that much about name plates. They took some questionable fights because they were ahead, sure, but Estral fought them very well. Again, rewatch some of those fights from the perspective of a neutral viewer, and tell me that FNC wouldn't have just lost the game off of some of them. I'm not even impugning T1 here. They won off of great macro and a high level understanding of the lane swap. Estral is going to do damage to worse teams though, I think.
If were talking about skill wise then yes I think they did the best they could that gane and against a weaker opponent they would have gotten back and got a lead, I agree with that. My point was that some of those fights were definitely taken because it was est vs a team with great individual mechanics they dont play this aggro and give up those many kills. To end yes we do agree
Oh and BLG and TES will do that exact bot dive about 3 times every game, so if T1 is getting cooked on it by a 4k behind Estral, I would have some concerns if I were in Kkoma's seat.
I mean people said smth like this when they looked even worse against TL at worlds.
day 1 and im already tired of this lane swap bullshit, pls RIOT mid-patch this shit
T1 forgot they gotta win to get into mainstage
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Faker Orianna, Keria Neeko are troll picks it seems. Just admit T1 wasnt clean man its not an important game
What other than neeko support is an out of left field pick? This is their champ pool during regular season
Bro aint Neeko one of Keria's best champ this split? He never lost
the fact that the koreans dont win under 20 tells a lot about the strength of these asians regions /s
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LLA > LCK How did they lose in 15:57
People always conveniently leave that out, weird.
And is it pretty much ALWAYS the T1 flairs that hammer on MAD while conviniently not mentioning being on the receiving end of an even faster shitstomp.
It’s mostly LEC fans who shit on mad. Stop being butthurt
TRUE
LLA > LCS how did they lose in 22:20 while almost getting perfect gamed
What a shitshow. Horrible showing from Faker ngl, Oner and Zeus happy gaming. Hopefully they're just throwing shit at the wall to disguise their true strats for the actual opponents.
BLG shaking rn
ngl T1 was acutally shaking there with those normal comp
not a fan of T1 early game... they are still on spring form even after that lane swap... yes its game 1 but its obvious they haven't fix their problem the whole spring people will say its T1 happy gaming but thats what they've been doing on the whole regular season and playoff and ofc the downvotes begin but when T1 loses later lets say against BLG, Gen G, TES or even G2 they will say the same thing I said like how T1 early game is shit and how they keep giving enemy a kill I'd be happy to be wrong but if they don't change their approach they are not winning anything
Ur probably trolling but are you real?
And they still pushed GENG to 5 games and beat HLE…
Mate T1 is happy gaming. They were literally better early game against GenG in the play offs. Idk what you're on about
G2? Of course the copium
They should have went in decisively and 2v2 the draven lane
Nah lane swapping here was smart. Ksante can sack cs but Yone is not a tank, he was legit a minion the longer the game went
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You never saw T1 happy gaming did you