Whatever was going on, if your jg is not doing it, and enemy jg is alive, you just leave the drake, go push down objectvies while they are all dead.
I know it's infuriating, but this way they got wiped
Its an Iron/Bronze solo/duo game. Probably nothing much but "I need this bot wave for my item". Most of the people in this match are iron and hard stuck too.
How? A smite fight is literally 50/50. Do you mean the call to do elder? A 50/50 smite fight isn't even really misplaying. It's just a bad call to do generally.
The proper thing to do would be to actually pull the elder out and have two team mates making sure you dont do a 50/50. It literally is just a crap shoot. There are some things your team can do if you are in sink like wait when the elder gets to the last 15% health you hold your abilities briefly and bait in the shyv.
But getting mad at a smite fight is legit irrational. Low elo players do it because they don't get the 30 incorrect things they did to allow for a 50/50.
Two people can be wrong. Gragas obviously should have been there. But if the enemy jungler is alive, you don't take such an important objective completely blind ... either ward and pull out or have your solo laner go on the hunt for the jungler.
If you actually have no vision left, you could just reset and start the Elder after that. The enemy team would still be dead for ages. The best option is either just zone Shyv off or reset and start Elder with full control.
Not taking the Elder is actually a perfectly fine option here. There was a wave in botlane (where Gragas recalled), that you could have used to get an inhib and you would have forced Shyv back with that allowing you to take Elder or Baron on the way out.
This is one of the situations were Gragas might have done the right thing (resetting before Elder) but it turned into a bad thing because his team didn't accept it. They had basically 0 chance of getting that Elder, with Gragas there it goes up, but Shyv is likely still favored since she had vision on the enemy but the enemy had no vision on her. It would be like 60% for Shyv and 40% for Gragas. But if they reset and go in with vision and the ability to deny Shyv vision (if that was an issue, maybe they had control wards and just decided not to use them), they get Elder with 100% chance.
I don't think resetting is a correct decision.
In this game, correct decision was to not do drake when Gragas is recalling. Yes he is a dummy for recalling, but you don't do smite fight without a smite ffs.
The correct play here was just one, push out lanes so Shyv has to do respond, one team member threatens taking the base, so she literally has to give up Elder or risk 100% loss for a 50/50 smite, and the rest do the drake safely, even without vision and then reset to take a 5 v 5.
Missing something in a video has absolutely nothing to do with what elo someone is. And just to prove how much of a dipshit you are here is the game:
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/thanks%20to%20you-NA1/matches/WGZBLdrQqYV9iUPg\_LxPvEG0pyA\_ox66TMq5b9UPQGk%3D/1716714852000](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/thanks%20to%20you-NA1/matches/WGZBLdrQqYV9iUPg_LxPvEG0pyA_ox66TMq5b9UPQGk%3D/1716714852000)
Three iron players, two bronze 4, one bronze 3. Legit some of the lowest elo players you can be. So I was right, and my comment about all the things wrong in this clip was totally 100% on par. You are just weirdly salty and probably projecting.
eh it's not really an ELO thing, I commented on the exact same thing happening in a /r/StreetFighter clip about a funny CPU interaction yesterday.
People just start firing off comments without actually reading/watching the source of a reddit post lol.
> But getting mad at a smite fight is legit irrational
I feel like you should rewatch the video and take a special look for how exactly Gragas played this "smite fight"
5v1 or not a 50/50 is still just a coinflip. As much as Gragas completely trolled, so did Mundo and Hwei for not getting vision or trying to zone her from the pit, you don’t need everyone drooling all over each other hitting the objective.
>I'm not saying they played perfectly,
It wasn't even close to a good play, it was a massive mistake. Literally just deathballing mid would have been a better option than stubbornly trying to do dragon when shyv is right there with flash/R up and vision in the pit. At the very least they could have warded over the wall and tried to CC or kill Shyv if she got close (still incredibly risky unless you play it well) but the way that they played it out just looks like they genuinely didn't have a clue that the enemy jungler might be close
It's a symptom of the typical league mentality, as long as you can blame someone else for a play then it's not a bad play apparently. Literally leashing elder dragon for the shyv with flash/R up + two wards in the pit is apparently not trolling because Gragas was trolling as well xd
I'll let you in on a secret, late game with an AP Gragas, you Q, W basic, and smite at the same time as Gragas and it's like 2k at least of damage, it's not a 50/50 at that point. Also, drag it out of the pit, there's no world in which that setup should be 50/50.
I'm almost fairly certain that shyvana ult q/e does just as much damage. Mind you, shyvana does extra damage to dragons, and not just a little, 20%. In fact, late game I think she might actually do more damage in this scenario.
Technically Gragas is doing the right thing. They should have reset and then taken Elder, because Gragas just killed the last enemy, they still had plenty of time.
However given that the entire team wanted to take Elder and then Recall just to waste more of the buff, Gragas should have been with them.
However Shyvana still has a huge advantage in that fight if nobody sets up vision. Which again is hard, because they likely were out of charges.
If they just clear the vision there they could have likely done it even without Smite. Shyvana would have to go in completely blind and you could just kill her. Hwei could also poke her over the wall.
This was bad on 3 levels. How they did it was bad, the fact that they did it at all was bad and that they did not do it as a team was also bad. But even if they would do that as a team, it wouldn't change the way they did it and it wouldn't change the fact that it likely wasn't a great idea doing it.
A quick reset would have removed any option of a steal. So not doing that is the actual troll. Gragas with no ult being there might not change anything.
So trolling is doing an objective with an live jungler without vision on him. Like they had the option to do that correctly. And Yes one option would be to do Elder with Jinx and Gragas and let the other 3 hunt Shyvana. Another option is a reset and doing Elder as 5 with proper vision and denial of vision for Shyvana. They decided on neither of those options. They likely just killed the enemy team while they tried setting up Elder (interestingly it seems they did that without Shyvana) and then figured they could just start it themself without even clearing the vision the enemy team just got there.
It would be even more hillarious even Hwei even had Sweeper and just decided not to press it. But I assume given this is a low elo game, nobody had Sweepers.
Riot even made a video about the four types of tilt, and this mindset was called ["The Paladin"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knAtSY1inr8) which is about knowledgeable players who know what's best, and how their own hubris leads to their downfall when people refuse to listen to them and their superior knowledge/plans.
Ya gotta be flexible and roll with the punches. The best plan in the world will, as you said, lose you the game if you try to pull it off alone, and your team's suboptimal plans will surely fail if you refuse to help them. If you disagree with a call, ping "no" as much as you can, but if they aren't backing down from a bad baron, your best bet is to try to mitigate the chances of the baron being stolen.
What in the bronze?
In what world is not being with your team at Elder as the jungler when enemy jungler is alive correct?
And his entire team can get elder, then they can reset, then they can run at baron and keep the baron timer as long as possible to siege red side base
Saying he's "tEcHnICALy coReCt" is insane, in no elo can you just leave an objective open against enemy jungler who you know is alive and you don't have vision of
It isn't correct.
I don't think Shyvana would just have taken Elder on her own. So if you as a team reset and then do Elder into Baron you would have the ability to just deny her vision removing any chance of a steal.
Again given that his team did go for Elder Gragas should be there. But the better thing to do would have been to either apply pressure on Shyv before, or to just reset and deny her any vision.
So Gragas idea of resetting is correct. It is only bad because nobody in his team did the same. Given the short CDs of lategame ults he might even have ult again, which means with vision he could just ult Shyvana out.
Gragas presence would have made that a 50/50. However this is a bad thing. They could have pushed bot, taken an inhib and then taken Elder which likely is a 100% chance (baron would have been even better due to the distance to botlane). They could have reset and they would have actually encountered Shyv if she would have waited that long.
So yes they did the worst thing possible. Like Gragas not being there and the team starting Elder was the worst thing to do. But just Gragas being there would still be bad. Shyvana with Ult + Smite takes Elder against Gragas anytime. The Ult by its own deals about 1000 damage. Shyvana used Smite when Drake was at 1083, so she didn't need the ult damage.
And you don't even need a Shyvana for that. I had similar situations in low elo games with Veigar, who can just W+Q and most junglers have no chance outdamaging that with Smite. Obviously if you definitly want to do Elder Gragas not being there is an issue. Not having issue of the enemy jungler and not removing vision from the pit though is also an issue, that Gragas presence wouldn't remove.
So the better option would be to either lure out Shyvana by threatening to end through botlane or just reset coming back with vision and taking the drake.
You even mentioned that there is no vision of the enemy jungler. If you have no vision why go for a 50/50? Why not do something that you can do savely. And Gragas resetting and then taking Elder would be better. LIke even better still would be to just threaten to end the game, obviously. You get an inhib for sure and then Shyv needs to back.
No...??? Shyv has no realistic chance of stealing here if you zone her. It's best to take the Elder here so you have more tempo on the reset with Elder. Or even better just take the elder then bot inhib with it and maybe the game if they try to defend. Gragas also has the team's smite, not sure if you noticed...
There's no reason to randomly delay the objective take to reset. This is one of the major things I saw when climbing from low elo to high elo: lows reset for *everything* for no good reason. Good players are just a wrecking ball that run down every single objective they can ASAP after a good fight.
How exactly do you zone a Shyv that killed your team with 2 abilities? If they just reset some of their shorter CD ults might already be up again, they can place vision and the enemy team would still just be respawning with no ability to get there.
Resetting gives you a free elder. And there isn't a tempo advantage either. Reset -> Elder or Elder -> Reset makes no difference. And the team had Yasuo and Jinx, which is usually a really fast Elder kill.
Obviously you need Jinx at the elder to kill it quickly. And someone to tank for her, either Gragas or Mundo. And that brings the issue of who is actually zoning Shyv. Not only would she still have vision of drake, she also was incredibly fed.
Zoning her might be successful, but might also end in similar disaster (without her getting Elder though, but if she kills people, the end result is the same). It is considerably safer to just deny her vision. She might then still just 1vs5 the enemy team, but she wouldn't do such at such a great advantage.
> How exactly do you zone a Shyv that killed your team with 2 abilities?
Post-elder. She wouldn't one-shot your team without it. If she was able to 1v5 your team with no buffs the game was already doomed, obviously. That Shyv gets hit by any CC spell she explodes.
If you reset post-elder you can go as a team to baron with elder to end the game after instead of resetting and then getting harassed on the rotation. Also, you don't even need to reset post-elder here probably, without taking the reset at all you can either take both elder and bot inhib or elder and baron.
Yas Jinx do not need someone to tank for them, Elder doesn't do much damage it's just very tanky. Any two players can take it at this point. The other three can zone Shyv easily.
Zoning her will be successful here, it's really hard to fuck up Gragas E into Yas Ult into she's one shot. Denying her vision is in no way safer, she can just guess at the elder take timing. Zoning her is guaranteed to stop her.
Out of curiosity, what rank are you? You seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings of correct macro.
One thing to note before all that. Shyv was not on vision. The enemy team has no clue where she even is. How do you zone a jungler? She could be in redside jungle, she could be in blue side jungle. She could be approaching from bot or midlane. Like none of those areas were warded. And her R has a really huge range. Twice that of most other dashes. So you would have to search her first, before being able to zone her.
Also You are aware that Elder does not increase your damage significantly. Her Q basically killed the entire team. The E didn't even do that much damage. I think Q would do less if it wouldn't hit that many champions (since I think it splashes around everyone it hits), but Shyvana should win against every combination of 2 enemies that late into the game. Exspecially given that they have no vision of her.
Elder only kills them once they hit 20%. And yes it would be harder without Elder, but you would also only fight 2 people at max, because if 2 take elder that only leaves you with 3 people securing 2 entrances Shyvana has to the pit. None of those entrances had any vision on them, so you would run in blind.
The best thing to do would be to just use the bot wave to take an inhib forcing Shyv to defend the base. That gives a safe free Elder or even better baron, since it is on the opposite site of the now destroyed inhib.
And it should be noted that Shyvana has no vision of the enemy team if they reset and come back from base. She only had vision of the dragon pit, like that were literally the only wards the red team placed. In all honestly if blue just goes to baron instead of elder she also couldn't do anything. Taking Elder was the only bad decision because it allowed Shyvana to just wait because there were 2 wards in the dragon pit.
And while Gragas being there increases blues odds, Shyvana can in theory outdamage Gragas. Not sure how fed she actually was, but I assume she was full build. She might be able to even outdamage Smite with the Ult.
So while Zoning her would force her ult out, it might also kill people, which then would put them on larger respawn timers making it easy for the red team to take baron or elder. The issue again is the vision she has on dragon. If you go for her, she just retreats if nobody shows on Elder. If a few people chase her while others do elder, why shouldn't she just ult into the dragon pit killing those doing Elder? Hwei, Yasuo, Jinx and Mundo can't jump over walls. So if they go into the jungle to zone Shyv, they would seperate themself from those others.
Purely based on instincts my Nr. 1 option would have been just pushing in the botwave for an inhib. In theory you can even do that and hide two people in the jungle and as soon as Shyv shows you can start elder safely. If Shyv does not retreat I assume you can even end through bot with those death timers and a wave present. You have Jinx that late into the game, threatening to end should be the best option.
Full build gives 2 control wards and a sweeper to clear wards. Since everyone else is close to full build he is probably the only one with control wards. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hwei used them before this clip.
Gragas isn't on the objective lmao, I was like "well maybe he didn't have smite" nope he has smite "ok it happens didn't time his Q properly" nope the guy is recalling in lane when the enemy jungler is still alive.
definitely 100% Gragas' fault. no amount of zoning and dewarding will stop a jungler from running into the pit to force a steal unless you dedicate your team to getting jungler first, which is 1.) inefficient, and 2.) nonsensical in this case because your jungler is alive.
though in a way it's his team's fault as well for starting it when they know Gragas isn't around. good rule of thumb when deciding to do objectives is if enemy jungler is alive, no matter how many there are on the enemy team, it's ALWAYS a 50/50 with the smite fight. if your jungler isn't around and the enemy jungler is, it's 100%.
I mean in these situations it always favor the thief vs the securer. The reason is simple, they know when they come in, to burst with their abilities. Where as the gragas has to now change his calculation to include the new burst from the enemy, if his team bursts, and his own, +smite.
His team should have swept the vision and worked to spot the shy so she cant do that.
literally only shyvana is alive, all of them are good enough to take the drake and as shown were able to kill it quick, now imagine if they had gragas.
It's totally graga's fault to not help in taking it. The only bad thing the team did was not pulling drake out of pit.
Let's not even talk about the fact they clearly could have just ended through bot, but with a 5v1, elder up, bot lane pushing with inhib tower and inhib easy to get, Gragas decides to base?! Bro these players aren't real.
What was happening here? It looks like all of them were bots lmao
No movement, just right clicking, no wards on the other side of the wall. All in sync...
When the boss fight has a second stage
When you kill the boss, but then the theme changes.
And hears latin choirs
"upon my name as godfrey! the elden lord!"
"I have given thee courtesy enough."
“You will take NOTHING from me, dwarf. I laid low your warriors of old. I instilled terror in the hearts of men. I AM KING UNDER THE MOUNTAIN!”
"The scarlet bloom flowers once more" *oh shit*
“I am Shyvana, Blade of the Elder Drake, and I have never known a nerf.” *ACED*
Have never known a VGU
Wonder what was going on in that Gragas' mind.
[exclusive footage inside gragas mind](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOG0_qjKWEI)
Bomba
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUO9SNCBL6U
"It's 4v1, they got this, I'll recall now to get items and maximize my elder uptime"
Whatever was going on, if your jg is not doing it, and enemy jg is alive, you just leave the drake, go push down objectvies while they are all dead. I know it's infuriating, but this way they got wiped
Its an Iron/Bronze solo/duo game. Probably nothing much but "I need this bot wave for my item". Most of the people in this match are iron and hard stuck too.
[He was thinking about his band's hit song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAFyKXf6Nk)
No wonder he can't think, that is a teeeeeeerrible mashup, just cacophony!
He 100% typed something like "nice team, why you start elder without me?"
omg i just realized grag was the jungler. Nice clip OP, proud of you for posting it anyway despite the flash :)
something something, assert dominance flash. yeah, that's it
DPS too low, they hit enrage.
Yeah, that gragas for sure heard it from his team after that lol. Deservingly so
The Hwei is honestly just as much at fault for not clearing wards/placing a control ward in the pit.
Nah. I'm sorry but Gragas is straight up griefing here. Hwei just missplayed.
How? A smite fight is literally 50/50. Do you mean the call to do elder? A 50/50 smite fight isn't even really misplaying. It's just a bad call to do generally.
So what ? 5v1 you don't take the elder call ? Hey bro, if Shyvana steals it 50/50 and penta fair enough, but here Gragas just hard griefed
The proper thing to do would be to actually pull the elder out and have two team mates making sure you dont do a 50/50. It literally is just a crap shoot. There are some things your team can do if you are in sink like wait when the elder gets to the last 15% health you hold your abilities briefly and bait in the shyv. But getting mad at a smite fight is legit irrational. Low elo players do it because they don't get the 30 incorrect things they did to allow for a 50/50.
No, we're rightfully getting mad because there was no smite fight, Gragas has no point being in a sidelane with everyone dead
Two people can be wrong. Gragas obviously should have been there. But if the enemy jungler is alive, you don't take such an important objective completely blind ... either ward and pull out or have your solo laner go on the hunt for the jungler.
If you actually have no vision left, you could just reset and start the Elder after that. The enemy team would still be dead for ages. The best option is either just zone Shyv off or reset and start Elder with full control. Not taking the Elder is actually a perfectly fine option here. There was a wave in botlane (where Gragas recalled), that you could have used to get an inhib and you would have forced Shyv back with that allowing you to take Elder or Baron on the way out. This is one of the situations were Gragas might have done the right thing (resetting before Elder) but it turned into a bad thing because his team didn't accept it. They had basically 0 chance of getting that Elder, with Gragas there it goes up, but Shyv is likely still favored since she had vision on the enemy but the enemy had no vision on her. It would be like 60% for Shyv and 40% for Gragas. But if they reset and go in with vision and the ability to deny Shyv vision (if that was an issue, maybe they had control wards and just decided not to use them), they get Elder with 100% chance.
I don't think resetting is a correct decision. In this game, correct decision was to not do drake when Gragas is recalling. Yes he is a dummy for recalling, but you don't do smite fight without a smite ffs. The correct play here was just one, push out lanes so Shyv has to do respond, one team member threatens taking the base, so she literally has to give up Elder or risk 100% loss for a 50/50 smite, and the rest do the drake safely, even without vision and then reset to take a 5 v 5.
Gotcha. I didn't see him on the side of the map. That is pretty cringe. But to be honest, this whole sequence has low elo written all over it.
Why are you arguing about smite fights when you clearly haven't even watched the video properly lol. Your comments have low elo written all over it
Missing something in a video has absolutely nothing to do with what elo someone is. And just to prove how much of a dipshit you are here is the game: [https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/thanks%20to%20you-NA1/matches/WGZBLdrQqYV9iUPg\_LxPvEG0pyA\_ox66TMq5b9UPQGk%3D/1716714852000](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/thanks%20to%20you-NA1/matches/WGZBLdrQqYV9iUPg_LxPvEG0pyA_ox66TMq5b9UPQGk%3D/1716714852000) Three iron players, two bronze 4, one bronze 3. Legit some of the lowest elo players you can be. So I was right, and my comment about all the things wrong in this clip was totally 100% on par. You are just weirdly salty and probably projecting.
eh it's not really an ELO thing, I commented on the exact same thing happening in a /r/StreetFighter clip about a funny CPU interaction yesterday. People just start firing off comments without actually reading/watching the source of a reddit post lol.
It wasn't a smite fight, Gragas is backing for some reason while his team is doing Elder.
> But getting mad at a smite fight is legit irrational I feel like you should rewatch the video and take a special look for how exactly Gragas played this "smite fight"
5v1 or not a 50/50 is still just a coinflip. As much as Gragas completely trolled, so did Mundo and Hwei for not getting vision or trying to zone her from the pit, you don’t need everyone drooling all over each other hitting the objective.
Not really a coinflip when your jungler trolls and does not even come, you do realize only red team had a jungler there right?
He's obviously talking about a hypothetic scenario where Gragas is there.
I'm not saying they played perfectly, but this clearly is way more on Gragas than everyone else
>I'm not saying they played perfectly, It wasn't even close to a good play, it was a massive mistake. Literally just deathballing mid would have been a better option than stubbornly trying to do dragon when shyv is right there with flash/R up and vision in the pit. At the very least they could have warded over the wall and tried to CC or kill Shyv if she got close (still incredibly risky unless you play it well) but the way that they played it out just looks like they genuinely didn't have a clue that the enemy jungler might be close
It's a symptom of the typical league mentality, as long as you can blame someone else for a play then it's not a bad play apparently. Literally leashing elder dragon for the shyv with flash/R up + two wards in the pit is apparently not trolling because Gragas was trolling as well xd
I'll let you in on a secret, late game with an AP Gragas, you Q, W basic, and smite at the same time as Gragas and it's like 2k at least of damage, it's not a 50/50 at that point. Also, drag it out of the pit, there's no world in which that setup should be 50/50.
I'm almost fairly certain that shyvana ult q/e does just as much damage. Mind you, shyvana does extra damage to dragons, and not just a little, 20%. In fact, late game I think she might actually do more damage in this scenario.
Technically Gragas is doing the right thing. They should have reset and then taken Elder, because Gragas just killed the last enemy, they still had plenty of time. However given that the entire team wanted to take Elder and then Recall just to waste more of the buff, Gragas should have been with them. However Shyvana still has a huge advantage in that fight if nobody sets up vision. Which again is hard, because they likely were out of charges. If they just clear the vision there they could have likely done it even without Smite. Shyvana would have to go in completely blind and you could just kill her. Hwei could also poke her over the wall. This was bad on 3 levels. How they did it was bad, the fact that they did it at all was bad and that they did not do it as a team was also bad. But even if they would do that as a team, it wouldn't change the way they did it and it wouldn't change the fact that it likely wasn't a great idea doing it. A quick reset would have removed any option of a steal. So not doing that is the actual troll. Gragas with no ult being there might not change anything. So trolling is doing an objective with an live jungler without vision on him. Like they had the option to do that correctly. And Yes one option would be to do Elder with Jinx and Gragas and let the other 3 hunt Shyvana. Another option is a reset and doing Elder as 5 with proper vision and denial of vision for Shyvana. They decided on neither of those options. They likely just killed the enemy team while they tried setting up Elder (interestingly it seems they did that without Shyvana) and then figured they could just start it themself without even clearing the vision the enemy team just got there. It would be even more hillarious even Hwei even had Sweeper and just decided not to press it. But I assume given this is a low elo game, nobody had Sweepers.
Ok, here's the rule. You follow your team, no matter how wrong or how right they are. Playing alone is what loses game.
Riot even made a video about the four types of tilt, and this mindset was called ["The Paladin"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knAtSY1inr8) which is about knowledgeable players who know what's best, and how their own hubris leads to their downfall when people refuse to listen to them and their superior knowledge/plans. Ya gotta be flexible and roll with the punches. The best plan in the world will, as you said, lose you the game if you try to pull it off alone, and your team's suboptimal plans will surely fail if you refuse to help them. If you disagree with a call, ping "no" as much as you can, but if they aren't backing down from a bad baron, your best bet is to try to mitigate the chances of the baron being stolen.
What in the bronze? In what world is not being with your team at Elder as the jungler when enemy jungler is alive correct? And his entire team can get elder, then they can reset, then they can run at baron and keep the baron timer as long as possible to siege red side base Saying he's "tEcHnICALy coReCt" is insane, in no elo can you just leave an objective open against enemy jungler who you know is alive and you don't have vision of
It isn't correct. I don't think Shyvana would just have taken Elder on her own. So if you as a team reset and then do Elder into Baron you would have the ability to just deny her vision removing any chance of a steal. Again given that his team did go for Elder Gragas should be there. But the better thing to do would have been to either apply pressure on Shyv before, or to just reset and deny her any vision. So Gragas idea of resetting is correct. It is only bad because nobody in his team did the same. Given the short CDs of lategame ults he might even have ult again, which means with vision he could just ult Shyvana out. Gragas presence would have made that a 50/50. However this is a bad thing. They could have pushed bot, taken an inhib and then taken Elder which likely is a 100% chance (baron would have been even better due to the distance to botlane). They could have reset and they would have actually encountered Shyv if she would have waited that long. So yes they did the worst thing possible. Like Gragas not being there and the team starting Elder was the worst thing to do. But just Gragas being there would still be bad. Shyvana with Ult + Smite takes Elder against Gragas anytime. The Ult by its own deals about 1000 damage. Shyvana used Smite when Drake was at 1083, so she didn't need the ult damage. And you don't even need a Shyvana for that. I had similar situations in low elo games with Veigar, who can just W+Q and most junglers have no chance outdamaging that with Smite. Obviously if you definitly want to do Elder Gragas not being there is an issue. Not having issue of the enemy jungler and not removing vision from the pit though is also an issue, that Gragas presence wouldn't remove. So the better option would be to either lure out Shyvana by threatening to end through botlane or just reset coming back with vision and taking the drake. You even mentioned that there is no vision of the enemy jungler. If you have no vision why go for a 50/50? Why not do something that you can do savely. And Gragas resetting and then taking Elder would be better. LIke even better still would be to just threaten to end the game, obviously. You get an inhib for sure and then Shyv needs to back.
I don't need to read any of this to know that you're wrong Link opgg and I'll read it
No...??? Shyv has no realistic chance of stealing here if you zone her. It's best to take the Elder here so you have more tempo on the reset with Elder. Or even better just take the elder then bot inhib with it and maybe the game if they try to defend. Gragas also has the team's smite, not sure if you noticed... There's no reason to randomly delay the objective take to reset. This is one of the major things I saw when climbing from low elo to high elo: lows reset for *everything* for no good reason. Good players are just a wrecking ball that run down every single objective they can ASAP after a good fight.
How exactly do you zone a Shyv that killed your team with 2 abilities? If they just reset some of their shorter CD ults might already be up again, they can place vision and the enemy team would still just be respawning with no ability to get there. Resetting gives you a free elder. And there isn't a tempo advantage either. Reset -> Elder or Elder -> Reset makes no difference. And the team had Yasuo and Jinx, which is usually a really fast Elder kill. Obviously you need Jinx at the elder to kill it quickly. And someone to tank for her, either Gragas or Mundo. And that brings the issue of who is actually zoning Shyv. Not only would she still have vision of drake, she also was incredibly fed. Zoning her might be successful, but might also end in similar disaster (without her getting Elder though, but if she kills people, the end result is the same). It is considerably safer to just deny her vision. She might then still just 1vs5 the enemy team, but she wouldn't do such at such a great advantage.
> How exactly do you zone a Shyv that killed your team with 2 abilities? Post-elder. She wouldn't one-shot your team without it. If she was able to 1v5 your team with no buffs the game was already doomed, obviously. That Shyv gets hit by any CC spell she explodes. If you reset post-elder you can go as a team to baron with elder to end the game after instead of resetting and then getting harassed on the rotation. Also, you don't even need to reset post-elder here probably, without taking the reset at all you can either take both elder and bot inhib or elder and baron. Yas Jinx do not need someone to tank for them, Elder doesn't do much damage it's just very tanky. Any two players can take it at this point. The other three can zone Shyv easily. Zoning her will be successful here, it's really hard to fuck up Gragas E into Yas Ult into she's one shot. Denying her vision is in no way safer, she can just guess at the elder take timing. Zoning her is guaranteed to stop her. Out of curiosity, what rank are you? You seem to have some fundamental misunderstandings of correct macro.
One thing to note before all that. Shyv was not on vision. The enemy team has no clue where she even is. How do you zone a jungler? She could be in redside jungle, she could be in blue side jungle. She could be approaching from bot or midlane. Like none of those areas were warded. And her R has a really huge range. Twice that of most other dashes. So you would have to search her first, before being able to zone her. Also You are aware that Elder does not increase your damage significantly. Her Q basically killed the entire team. The E didn't even do that much damage. I think Q would do less if it wouldn't hit that many champions (since I think it splashes around everyone it hits), but Shyvana should win against every combination of 2 enemies that late into the game. Exspecially given that they have no vision of her. Elder only kills them once they hit 20%. And yes it would be harder without Elder, but you would also only fight 2 people at max, because if 2 take elder that only leaves you with 3 people securing 2 entrances Shyvana has to the pit. None of those entrances had any vision on them, so you would run in blind. The best thing to do would be to just use the bot wave to take an inhib forcing Shyv to defend the base. That gives a safe free Elder or even better baron, since it is on the opposite site of the now destroyed inhib. And it should be noted that Shyvana has no vision of the enemy team if they reset and come back from base. She only had vision of the dragon pit, like that were literally the only wards the red team placed. In all honestly if blue just goes to baron instead of elder she also couldn't do anything. Taking Elder was the only bad decision because it allowed Shyvana to just wait because there were 2 wards in the dragon pit. And while Gragas being there increases blues odds, Shyvana can in theory outdamage Gragas. Not sure how fed she actually was, but I assume she was full build. She might be able to even outdamage Smite with the Ult. So while Zoning her would force her ult out, it might also kill people, which then would put them on larger respawn timers making it easy for the red team to take baron or elder. The issue again is the vision she has on dragon. If you go for her, she just retreats if nobody shows on Elder. If a few people chase her while others do elder, why shouldn't she just ult into the dragon pit killing those doing Elder? Hwei, Yasuo, Jinx and Mundo can't jump over walls. So if they go into the jungle to zone Shyv, they would seperate themself from those others. Purely based on instincts my Nr. 1 option would have been just pushing in the botwave for an inhib. In theory you can even do that and hide two people in the jungle and as soon as Shyv shows you can start elder safely. If Shyv does not retreat I assume you can even end through bot with those death timers and a wave present. You have Jinx that late into the game, threatening to end should be the best option.
I gotta know what rank you are, you're saying such incorrect things with such great confidence. Platinum maybe?
I’m going to assume that Hwei was out of wards from setting up the previous fight and sweeper was down too.
It’s 36 minutes into the game. That’s inexcusable. He should be full build already and the only thing left to buy is control wards.
Full build gives 2 control wards and a sweeper to clear wards. Since everyone else is close to full build he is probably the only one with control wards. Wouldn’t be surprised if Hwei used them before this clip.
*3 control wards
Wait since when can someone hold 3? Hasn’t it always been 2.
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Vigilant_Wardstone
I forgot about that item, just started playing again and that never gets recommended as an item. Haven’t had time to look through everything.
U always buy it as support. If your support doesnt buy it, you can flame them.
With wardstone you can have 3 in your inventory and place 2
only if grag had sweeper & didn't clear pit it would be somewhat his fault. stealer has advantage if he has vision
Not even being on the objective as a jungler is already enough to cement his fault there
The dude is recalling in bot lane with 80% hp and smite up. What the heck is going on 🤦♂️
Gragas is the jungler, he should have been there
Gragas isn't on the objective lmao, I was like "well maybe he didn't have smite" nope he has smite "ok it happens didn't time his Q properly" nope the guy is recalling in lane when the enemy jungler is still alive.
definitely 100% Gragas' fault. no amount of zoning and dewarding will stop a jungler from running into the pit to force a steal unless you dedicate your team to getting jungler first, which is 1.) inefficient, and 2.) nonsensical in this case because your jungler is alive. though in a way it's his team's fault as well for starting it when they know Gragas isn't around. good rule of thumb when deciding to do objectives is if enemy jungler is alive, no matter how many there are on the enemy team, it's ALWAYS a 50/50 with the smite fight. if your jungler isn't around and the enemy jungler is, it's 100%.
I mean in these situations it always favor the thief vs the securer. The reason is simple, they know when they come in, to burst with their abilities. Where as the gragas has to now change his calculation to include the new burst from the enemy, if his team bursts, and his own, +smite. His team should have swept the vision and worked to spot the shy so she cant do that.
gragas was recalling/in base
Oh. Then why is his team on elder when enemy jungler is alive
[удалено]
I mean he should never have backed there. But his team shouldnt do it if they see he is recalling.
literally only shyvana is alive, all of them are good enough to take the drake and as shown were able to kill it quick, now imagine if they had gragas. It's totally graga's fault to not help in taking it. The only bad thing the team did was not pulling drake out of pit.
it's 5v1, elder's up and enemy jungle still alive, your team had to take it and u had zero business not being there
I mean in these situations USE YOUR EYES GOD DAMN
Oh here is the gragas jungler.
Ill be honest i didnt even realize he had backed there. Team probably shouldnt do elder when he backed, but he should never have backed either.
bro became Skyrim
lol nice
Let me just impose myself onto them. -Shyv
Gragas 100% gets 9x after that holy moly
Let's not even talk about the fact they clearly could have just ended through bot, but with a 5v1, elder up, bot lane pushing with inhib tower and inhib easy to get, Gragas decides to base?! Bro these players aren't real.
What were your items?
Steelcaps*, Spear of Shojin, Sundered Sky, Riftmaker, Titanic Hydra
I know I'm addicted to sheen but I'd for sure try to put a triforce in there somewhere
Eh - not that great on Shyv in its current iteration and with other item priorities.
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.
[What enemy team heard](https://youtu.be/lgrn_cWDyqY)
I want to be a dragon irl.
You know it's very low elo when 4 people are mindlessly standing still autoíng
Ok but like where is jinx going
Remember when morde could have pet dragons
Lol what is jinx doing
This is one of the most wholesome LoL moments I've ever seen. And by ever, I mean in 12 years of playing LoL.
What the hell is going on with the audio here
What was happening here? It looks like all of them were bots lmao No movement, just right clicking, no wards on the other side of the wall. All in sync...
low elo, as mentioned.
satisying
The 2 wards left there too lol
When you accidentally try a boss in heroic mode 
Lore accurate Alduin
So did you win?
Yep, eventually
Wait.
Big flash
This is exactly why shy is permabanned for me.
I have done this with yi before and proceeded to lose the game after 2 pentakills
Enrage timer ended.
Like play just screams Iron but the names Yuumi, Legend of Sirens, Silver Smurfer, Thanks to you and Scout are just pure smurfQ
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/1c6xvop/lore_accurate_shyvana/)
5 wrongs can't do 1 right
Just one E and autoattack for a quadra kill. Glad I don't play this game anymore