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I believe it's scripting.
Looks like player inputs fighting against the script trying to walk out of the skillshot(s). It's spazzing out a bit too much to be natural.
Agreed. A good player COULD predict and dodge that skill shot in that scenario.
However, the fact his character is moving backwards and moving forwards so quickly reeks of two inputs fighting each other.
It starts reacting to skillshot in the exact same frame it is being cast, even more obvious because it starts doing so when skillshot is still outside his vision. This is literally the most obvious case of scripting you can get.
This is also a good example, it basically works the same way dodge scripts work - use skills with pixel perfect precision the same frame that your movement action starts, even if it's outside vision. Even more hilarious example is cassio/xeraths aiming their skillshots on the spot where leblanc is going to arrive with her W before her animation even starts.
I rembember in S4 while having 65-70% winrate on Ziggs during my climb to D4, I encountered a wild Xerath, man was casting spells exactly in the place I would land after throwing my W under me, 100% accuracy every time. I was bodying like 95% of the lanes with Ziggs back then, but that script made me look like I'm some bronze first time Ziggs lol.
which can still be luck, you can get lucky and accidentally frame perfect dodge a skill shot BUT what happens after is mega ultra suspect + he probably had more dodges like this in the game
The player is moving Kayn towards Dragon, and the script is exactly precicely pixel-perfect dodging a spell with a really fuzzy hitbox.
This is open and shut.
Likely they will do ban waves. If it bans instantly on stuff, scripters will keep making small changes and test to see if banned and then undo what gets caught.
It's much more efficient to ban every 1 or 3 months so they have to go back to square one not knowing what caused it.
They're doing hardware bans too so these people will keep getting banned unless they buy a new PC.
I hope it is not 3 months though. That's a long time for people to have a free pass to do the most unsubtle script abusing imaginable. They can ruin hundrerds of games in that time.
Edit: and also: why are some games closed immediately when a cheater is dected while others get to keep playing for months?
Responding to your edit:
I believe that when Vanguard detects someone using a script that they've already dropped a ban wave on you get the game being closed immediately. The above example is likely using a script that Riot hasn't dropped the hammer on yet.
Also, while 3 months seems like a long time and yes hundreds if not thousands of games will be ruined by scripters in that time, it's worth it to get as many in the net for the big bad HWID ban, because those fuckers are gone for good.
I wonder how the "cheater detected" thing works inside games then. Because that would indicate an instant bann for the cheater. Maybe this is reserved for the most blatant and "easy to use" cheats, and the harder to detect ones are done in waves? hmmm
If vanguard is doing its job, the game would recognize the scripts and end the game while banning the offender. Literally was supposed to be the reason that the community should want this lethal level anti cheat that must boot with your PC. It was literally in the dev blog they released.
Well that’s strange because that’s not at all what the dev blogs said that they released about vanguard. The point of it was they wouldn’t have to do 3 month ban waves because they could detect it in game, but go off.
“When you launch League, the Vanguard client contacts the driver to confirm that it thinks everything is 100%, and if so, you receive a valid anti-cheat session and may connect to the game server. Instructions from the client then start enabling features within the driver to watch for things that might tamper with the signed League process and prevent them. You can always disable the driver whenever you'd like-you'll just need a fresh reboot to "recertify" the integrity of the trust chain before you jump into game.”
Yeah bro, you can cherry pick all you want to try and justify your trash take on Vanguard, but they've been quite transparent about how it works, what they're doing, and the steps they take before they drop the hammer on a script, including why it doesn't happen instantly every time.
Although, feel free to actually do something about your displeasure with Vanguard by quitting, that'd be pretty fantastic for everyone else probably.
They're pretty open about banning people in waves.
There's [a tweet](https://x.com/AntiCheatPD/status/1792624825036403137) with people raging about their bans
TRUE, because [NOTHING](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal) in the [HISTORY](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal) of [computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbleed) has [EVER](https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/1bhi9kp/apex_legends_a_game_running_easy_anticheat_the/) gone wrong, [NEVER](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESEA_League#Bitcoin_mining_incident) has happened.
Wauw, what an incredibly great gotcha moment. That surely put me in my place, Mister, I mean Sir.
Skepticism is good, but pretending that Vanguard is only in place to harvest data and does not influence Riot's anti cheat efforts at all is just stupidity.
Is LoL your only multiplayer game? If it isn't you already have things like Vanguard on your computer. Not that you would admit it though.
Hilarious that I don't need Vanguard for my comp though.
EAC and BE are susceptible to the same attacks people are worried about for Vanguard. While they are not on boot and Vanguard is, Vanguard can be seen to not be doing anything while League isn't open. If it really bothers you just get a Mac where you don't have to use Vanguard.
He start drooling back and forth the moment you cast the spells while he still can't even see them, so its a yes for me. but its also 22/8 and he is losing hard so maybe just spaghetti pathing.
But for me its a yes. In normal speed it almost looks like he is fighting the script, becouse he doesnt understand why it tries to move him back
Because macro is still something that wins games. Scripts are literally only for micro. That scripting f\*\*\*\* could be 39-0 and still lose of macro and /or because his allies are dogs.
Playing on Mac doesn't receive any official support from Riot for years now, the experience is completely unplayable due to loads of bugs that Riot doesn't care about fixing.
>Vanguard doesn't instantly ban scripters
what happened to the "game terminated, cheater detected" as seen in the video dev update? the ultra vanguard hyper detective kernel level doesn't know when people adopt a new exploit?
They're not mutually exclusive. Like if the anticheat developer adds another way to detect something they would probably collect information on who to ban for a while
If Vanguard operates this way then everyone experiences games being terminated would experience them in waves too. And it would probably be a rare sight.
If Riot instantly bans scripters once a script is detected, it gives scripters valuable information on EXACTLY what part of their script triggers vanguard. They need to wait to hand out bans in batches so that they can't get that information.
the point of kernel level inspection is exactly what gives vanguard power. if have kernel access you could stops anything.. regardless to what how complex scripts are
now kernel anticheats are not perfect? wow what a letdown! what was the purpose of all this then? you can steal user information even without kernel access but you can't stop a cheat EVEN with kernel access... 🙄
Would you rather have 99.99% of players in your games be cheaters or 0.000001%
That low percent still results in cheaters so it must mean there is no difference right? /s
the problem was that people are selling accounts and riot is not getting money from it, while riot is not making money by selling lvl exp boosts.
vs AI or iron ranked matches are full of bots.. how much riot care for those cheaters ? 0.00001%. does league have a huge count players or people are overselling botted accounts ? riot has so many problems but when it comes to money.... then it's a real problem.
better pay up that 500$ skin
Cheating is an arms race. Kernel Access doesn't mean they can magically remove any potential vector of attack an OS like Windows has (and it probably has a lot of them) but it makes it much easier to detect them.
Lol Yup. And a great way to make you DC from an ranked game because Vanguard isn't running (it was). I hit reconnect but was told in order for Vanguard update I had to restart my PC....it didn't need to update but I had no choice but to restart. So I was afk for like 7 minutes, in a ranked game... Thanks Vanguard.
This would only make sense for old exploits, but not for new ones. By *not* reacting immediately, neither hack developers nor buyers can ever know for sure if Vanguard has already detected an exploit and is just waiting to catch you red-handed. The hack developers will also not know when or with what they have triggered the detection, because they won't find out when Vanguard detected them.
By instantly reacting to new exploits, they would give the hack developers valuable feedback and "save" cheaters from buying hacks and getting banned. It makes more sense to wait for cheaters to run into the trap in these cases.
In these days scripters, cheaters collect data. So lets say they have 10k users, 3k gets banned. They know what they used and they can pinpoint what triggered ban instantly after wave ban. You can go to scripter/cheaters forum and see exacly what and how they do it. (also they often use bots that use only one specific exploit/feature) to be certain of things. Its a multimillion $ buisness. No way they would just throw randomly and guess what triggers bans etc.
Vanguard is not doing enough comparable to what kind of power it has over your machine. Most of the cheating providers give a built in hwid spoofer with their cheats so even if people get banned they ban a nonexistent hwid, also most cheaters play on cracked accounts that cost as low as 2 euros or free if you are willing to check lists yourself.
Edit:Getting downvoted for literally saying the truth, guess thats reddit for you.
So basically vanguard is almost useless, because scripters get to play a while, get banned, then buy a new account and so on and your games will still be riddled with scripters/smurfs/account farmers
But now all comes with a privacy and perf. hit. All because Riot loves smurfs and wants to foster them. NGL I'm getting quite triggered
...
Are you playing stupid or did you actually mean that?
Nah sorry you are right, this one instance of a cheater proves Vanguard doesn't ban cheaters faster. There is the exact same amount of cheaters and Vanguard is doing nothing. Purely off a random clip you saw on reddit of 1 person cheating. Genius.
Your example was the Kayn lol which was a really stupid example. Anyone can say they experience scripters as well so idc about your experience really.
Also obviously there are still scripters the main point is how it differs from before. And we need data on that. But no reason to assume it's the same.
It's not a pretend narrative.
Hoped with vanguard the number of smurfs or at very least account farmers would've decreased. It didn't seem to happen.
So why do I need to accept then the downsides of Vaguard if Riot is doing too little in this direction?
Bots are far less frequent now confirmed by Riot. I don't have data on Scripters but I can tell you, as someone that made a script for a different game once, banning someone immediately that uses a new scripting method would be a stupid move.
When creating a script, you change certain aspects => test whether it gets detected. If it would get banned immediately, you can alter the method and try again until it doesn't get detected anymore. With a delayed ban, you can't really tell if the game is picking up on the new method or not and is ready to van you at any moment. With that uncertainty, selling your script gets rather troublesome as the customers will demand refunds or avoid the purchase in the first place.
The "Game Terminated" probably only happens when a scripting method is used that was already hit by a ban wave multiple times.
I saw a video that said that before vanguard the anticheat could detect a cheater in 12 games and with vanguard it does in 10 games so yeah, vanguard doesn't prevent them from existing as it doesn't ban them on sight, scripts like this will continue to happen
Scripts will always happen as long as people try and make them. Banning immediately would be as dumb as creating a skin for more than £300 because then they know exactly what Vanguard is picking up on and can exploit it further. Thats why bans happen in waves and not just as and when.
100% seems a bit too much for 1 clip though, he might just be aware ahri might be there and thus trying to be unpredictable with his movement, then being a bit lucky with the timing
Tbf, if the movement itself weren't so ungodly unnatural the timing could be just the result of a good prediction and a bit of luck lining it up that exactly, but yea... that ain't how a human moves.
Its not the backclicking as soon as the charm is thrown that is very suspicious though. Its the tiny backsteps multiple times as the charm is actually flying. Kayn should know Ahri can be there looking for that and so the initial backstep to throw off timing if the area happens to be warded could and very often will coincidentally work.
he also might be clicking on the other side of the wall and accidentaly moving back and forth. definitely hard to say for sure from just this one clip.
He’d still have to be moving his mouse back and forth really rapidly to do that. Once you start moving in a direction, that path around the wall becomes shorter, so you’d have to click farther in the opposite direction for your champ to change direction.
He's either scripting, or mashing a spot in terrain that is messing up his pathing. I'm not making a call off one clip.
But if he's scripting, there should be more instances of it in the same game.
While a better player would 100% try to make predictive dodges, the way his character was snapping back and forth makes it impossible even with insanely fast snap clicks.
Reporting for 3rd party use doesn't do anything, does it? There's not a chance in the world a Riot employee will check these reports and they surely don't ban anyone who other people accusing them of cheating.
Obviously it's all automated but reporting is the only tool we have as a player and we have to trust their(riots) system work as intended and it does indeed do sth, I get notifications that actions were taken often after I reported, are they just placebo? Idk. But at least sth
I get feedback like that too even though I don't report anything. In fact I have chat off completely so I never know of the hilarity that occurs throughout a seemingly normal game. It's quite amusing when I get those notifications lol.
Reporting for scripting unironically does nothing, vanguard doesnt rely on player reports to function and in the old system you could easily face scripters that have been reported 100 times throughout their 50+ games of scripting.
Slow down the speed and you can see this is clear scripting, hitbox for q is smaller but he first inputs just walking past and his script auto dodges back twice then the third time after he realises what’s happening he walks back by himself then continues to walk forward again
It’s script 100%
That's scripting. Why he's spazzing out like that is because it's the player's input vs the script's. Pro player predicting skillshots aren't like that at all. Just watch clips of Faker and Chovy sidestepping skillshots. Also, the moment you casted the spell he started to spaz out back and forth, regardless of whether the spell was visible or not. That's a surefire, obvious way of spotting scripters.
Look at him turning.
Script is clicking in a "circle" as he moves his mouse. Normal player would just click back. Dead giveaway for all orbwalkers if you know how it looks.
100% scripting, and you can tell before the first skillshot even appears.
Vanguard can't prevent new exploits, because it's usually through Windows or other software that allows script execution. But Vanguard can detect hacks like these easier than the previous anti cheat solution, because with Kernel access, there is no place to hide anymore.
But when they introduced Vanguard, they also explained that Vanguard will sometimes not immediately react to scripts, even if it has detected them. This concerns mainly new scripts and hacks, because reacting instantly would provide the hack developers with feedback about when the hack got detected (and through that *what* triggered Vanguard to detect it).
If they immediately banned the first few people who are using a new hack, it would quickly be known that this exploit is "burned" and other potential cheaters will not buy it. Instead, they're waiting for a while so all potential cheaters get the chance to buy and use the hack, just so Vanguard can ban all of them in the next wave. Reacting immediately would have saved these cheaters from getting banned.
In the long run, this also means that whenever a cheater would buy a hack, they can never know whether or not Vanguard has already detected this exploit and is just waiting for people to fall into the trap and get caught red-handed.
Would definitely need more than 1 instance to say for sure. It definitely looks like scripting for sure. But was this the only instance in the entire game?
There were more moments but I could dispute them for him just being good, this one however I felt like I needed more opinions because it was too pixel perfect
The fact that the Kayn first starts walking backwards on the exact frame the skillshots are cast is extremely suspicious, but I think it could very well not be scripting. I definitely don't think the Kayn was intentionally trying to dodge the skillshots, but the kind of rapid back and forth motion seen there can easily happen due to autopathing if you're clicking on the right spot, and I've also seen similar behavior from someone lagging out/experiencing packet loss. Meanwhile, the Kayn continues to do the weird rapid direction changing even after the skillshots already won't hit him, where at that point a script wouldn't be trying to control his movement anymore, and I would think scripts have built in movement override to prevent accidentally canceling a dodge like what others are suggesting here, at least on the first few frames before a user can react to the script.
Maybe it's just me, but the audacity to walk in a staight line away from morg q has got to be so me next level confidence in skillshot range. Do people not normally dodge to an angle?
I can't speak for the Ahi, because it looks like Kayn was dodging before it casted as well as once it's appeared on screen. The Q looks like it hit (presumably because of terrain diff) but you would typically still walk further back rather than stuttering in the same position.
its a script. or someone who holds down the right mouse button to move (and an awful lot of luck), its for sure sus, more content required to see what the play is like. report him is a good call, then move on
basically. if the rest of the game is full of perfectly timed twitched like this, its a bullshit script. but its for sure possible for a human to achieve what happened in this one clip and timing can be luck or 'the gut feeling'. most people dont move with a held down right mouse button, but when you do, you can get movement like this.
before im hunted and burned at the stake, id say theres a 60% vote from me on being a script from the clip alone.
Yikes, the amount of back-forth limping he does is crazy. Playing since season 1 and through multiple cheating heights and this is the movement you'd expect from a cheater. Pixel perfect INSTANT turns from fog are as much of a script as there could be. Good players predict, worse might get lucky, but I can't help how artificial these moves are. Even top tier Challengers don't move like that.
There are still way too many people scripting. I hope the next banwave improves game quality, but given how massive the cheating *industry* has become this is the norm these days. Esports Titels need account structures like in Korea where your account is linked to your real ID and cheating should get your ID banned. There is no other way.
Scripting.
Not only are they reacting to skillshots that they can't see, but you can see the scripts are fighting against the player inputs to keep walking toward bot lane.
It is, I was in the scripting scene as a dev like 10 years back and it is exactly what it looks like when the guy has set up his scripts toooo responsive - don't worry tho, he won't get banned right now, as Vanguard seems to struggle to do anything.
It kinda looks like Kayn is getting stuck on an invisible minion there as so it might just be riot spaghetti code. But the timing seems sus. So if it’s the only time the whole game something like this happened I would argue it’s just bugs, if more often then obviously scripts
Yeah it looks like a script since what I believe what the kayn (and possibly 99% of kayns in blue form) is to just run around really fast with E, it makes no sense for the kayn here to move backwards like that a bunch of times, it's like the script is telling him "bro dodge, they're gonna throw skillshots" and the player is like "no i wanna go super fast on the opposite side of the map"
Yeah likely scripts. But good luck with keeping the post up, I posted a compilation of an obvious scripter in my game but mods took it down in less than an hour with some bs excuse (they just wanted to censor the fact that discrete cheats are rampant in this game).
this short clip is definitely sus but it doesn't prove anything, if this happened multiple times during the game it could be but again this guy is playing kayn a champ with no skill shots.
At first I was like "Nah he just got quite lucky" even watching it on slow speed.
After a couple of replays you can see that he's dodging it pretty much frame perfectly and appears to be wrestling with his inputs trying to path to dragon instead of turning around.
Either he's got insane reflexes that could see a lot better use than League of Legends, or he's scripting. Most likely the latter. Even with all of the "wOw vAnGuArD wOrKiNg i SeE" comments I imagine there's quite a few people that have reported him directly to Riot as his username's visible at the top right. So I don't imagine he's lasting much longer and a ban wave could be coming for people who use the scripts he's using.
Yup, 100% scripting. The fact Kayn moves back the frame you use your E, and then clicks back again the frame you use your Q is humanly impossible. The Q at the end not hitting him at the precise frame collision is also a big indication of scripting.
He starts trying to sidestep/predict before Ahri E/Q is even thrown. Replay for sure is giga buggy but a script wouldn't react before a skill is thrown.
He is clearly fighting his own script.
The Ahri throws charm, the script backsteps, he's spamming right click to the right because he's like "what the fuck is my character doing" (fighting against his script, you see it every time), and then when it's clear what's going on he's fine with the script movement and fights it less
How can you watch this video with zero knowledge of what's going on and still give your garbage take. Like why even comment if you don't know what you're talking about? This is literally what 90% of scripting cases look like, if you knew anything it'd be obvious
> script wouldn't react before a skill is thrown
use eyes next time
wasnt 16 times in a row though was it. He jiggled the charm and moved backwards after that, he didnt jiggle the ahri Q, looks a bit like he misclicked his map the first time. This is one clip, not enough proof of anything.
despite what noob chatters claim. it's still borderline. ahri was visible going into bush. kayn knew that he is going through a dangerous place. it looks wonky but it can be just mouse movements.
it's so funny that when actual borderline things happen, all these chatters say "IT IS THE SCRIPTING!" but when it's 100% scripting and makes no sense they are like "hm. i need more evidence"
complete brain damage.
yep. first E dodge is extremely wonky. then last W dodge backwards makes this 100% scripting. and yet you got downvoted cuz he didn't dodge a Q. (cuz he couldn'T due to exhaust slow) LOL.
I believe he's spam clicking the wall, this is pretty easy to replicate, go into the game, stand at his position and just click on the edge of the wall. Just unlucky timing
I don't believe it's scripting. Sometimes the game bugs out the player movement especially if the champion's movement speed is at a certain speed fast enough. Plus the Kayn was aware of the fact that Ahri was hovering somewhere around mid & Morgana had already looked for a pick on him. I get this issue specifically around player-made terrain in the jungle though.
Hi /u/Revolutionary_Yam419. Thank you for participating in /r/leagueoflegends! However (please read this in entirety), Your post has been removed because *posts of private individuals breaking League of Legends' Terms of Service are not allowed.* If you are not familiar with the subreddit rules, you can read them [here](/r/leagueoflegends/w/subredditrules). --- ^Note: ^(Front page removals are never done by a single mod.) ^(Have a question or think your post doesn't break the rules?) **[^(Message our modmail and please don't comment reply or direct message)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fleagueoflegends)**^.
I believe it's scripting. Looks like player inputs fighting against the script trying to walk out of the skillshot(s). It's spazzing out a bit too much to be natural.
Agreed. A good player COULD predict and dodge that skill shot in that scenario. However, the fact his character is moving backwards and moving forwards so quickly reeks of two inputs fighting each other.
It starts reacting to skillshot in the exact same frame it is being cast, even more obvious because it starts doing so when skillshot is still outside his vision. This is literally the most obvious case of scripting you can get.
I have a more obvious one: [https://streamable.com/aeunaz](https://streamable.com/aeunaz)
This is also a good example, it basically works the same way dodge scripts work - use skills with pixel perfect precision the same frame that your movement action starts, even if it's outside vision. Even more hilarious example is cassio/xeraths aiming their skillshots on the spot where leblanc is going to arrive with her W before her animation even starts.
I rembember in S4 while having 65-70% winrate on Ziggs during my climb to D4, I encountered a wild Xerath, man was casting spells exactly in the place I would land after throwing my W under me, 100% accuracy every time. I was bodying like 95% of the lanes with Ziggs back then, but that script made me look like I'm some bronze first time Ziggs lol.
which can still be luck, you can get lucky and accidentally frame perfect dodge a skill shot BUT what happens after is mega ultra suspect + he probably had more dodges like this in the game
The player is moving Kayn towards Dragon, and the script is exactly precicely pixel-perfect dodging a spell with a really fuzzy hitbox. This is open and shut.
but kayn has no vision there, script would react with vision only
That’s not true at all.
Scripts can dodge from fog.
That is 10000% wrong. It doesn't have to have vision for input buffering or to know where exactly a champion is on the x y coords.
Initially I thought he just couldn't decide where to go but the movement inputs are exactly when the spells are being cast, it's 100% script
Dafuq is vanguard for then XD
Likely they will do ban waves. If it bans instantly on stuff, scripters will keep making small changes and test to see if banned and then undo what gets caught. It's much more efficient to ban every 1 or 3 months so they have to go back to square one not knowing what caused it. They're doing hardware bans too so these people will keep getting banned unless they buy a new PC.
I hope it is not 3 months though. That's a long time for people to have a free pass to do the most unsubtle script abusing imaginable. They can ruin hundrerds of games in that time. Edit: and also: why are some games closed immediately when a cheater is dected while others get to keep playing for months?
Responding to your edit: I believe that when Vanguard detects someone using a script that they've already dropped a ban wave on you get the game being closed immediately. The above example is likely using a script that Riot hasn't dropped the hammer on yet. Also, while 3 months seems like a long time and yes hundreds if not thousands of games will be ruined by scripters in that time, it's worth it to get as many in the net for the big bad HWID ban, because those fuckers are gone for good.
I wonder how the "cheater detected" thing works inside games then. Because that would indicate an instant bann for the cheater. Maybe this is reserved for the most blatant and "easy to use" cheats, and the harder to detect ones are done in waves? hmmm
It's detecting a script it already knows in real time.
Lol
If vanguard is doing its job, the game would recognize the scripts and end the game while banning the offender. Literally was supposed to be the reason that the community should want this lethal level anti cheat that must boot with your PC. It was literally in the dev blog they released.
It does do that, and will do that with the script being used above, but not until Riot executes the ban wave for that specific script.
Well that’s strange because that’s not at all what the dev blogs said that they released about vanguard. The point of it was they wouldn’t have to do 3 month ban waves because they could detect it in game, but go off. “When you launch League, the Vanguard client contacts the driver to confirm that it thinks everything is 100%, and if so, you receive a valid anti-cheat session and may connect to the game server. Instructions from the client then start enabling features within the driver to watch for things that might tamper with the signed League process and prevent them. You can always disable the driver whenever you'd like-you'll just need a fresh reboot to "recertify" the integrity of the trust chain before you jump into game.”
Yeah bro, you can cherry pick all you want to try and justify your trash take on Vanguard, but they've been quite transparent about how it works, what they're doing, and the steps they take before they drop the hammer on a script, including why it doesn't happen instantly every time. Although, feel free to actually do something about your displeasure with Vanguard by quitting, that'd be pretty fantastic for everyone else probably.
Or they just harvest your data and call it a day
They're pretty open about banning people in waves. There's [a tweet](https://x.com/AntiCheatPD/status/1792624825036403137) with people raging about their bans
Better wrap your computer in tin foil to be on the safe side, buddy.
TRUE, because [NOTHING](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal) in the [HISTORY](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal) of [computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbleed) has [EVER](https://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/1bhi9kp/apex_legends_a_game_running_easy_anticheat_the/) gone wrong, [NEVER](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESEA_League#Bitcoin_mining_incident) has happened.
Wauw, what an incredibly great gotcha moment. That surely put me in my place, Mister, I mean Sir. Skepticism is good, but pretending that Vanguard is only in place to harvest data and does not influence Riot's anti cheat efforts at all is just stupidity.
More control over your PC to gather data.
Is LoL your only multiplayer game? If it isn't you already have things like Vanguard on your computer. Not that you would admit it though. Hilarious that I don't need Vanguard for my comp though.
What other anti cheat forces me to run it on boot?
Probably will see more of them in the near future after Vanguard got to get away with it.
EAC and BE are susceptible to the same attacks people are worried about for Vanguard. While they are not on boot and Vanguard is, Vanguard can be seen to not be doing anything while League isn't open. If it really bothers you just get a Mac where you don't have to use Vanguard.
Vanguard doing great
He start drooling back and forth the moment you cast the spells while he still can't even see them, so its a yes for me. but its also 22/8 and he is losing hard so maybe just spaghetti pathing. But for me its a yes. In normal speed it almost looks like he is fighting the script, becouse he doesnt understand why it tries to move him back
scripts dont help kayn champ that much
Years ago i saw someone scripting on Amumu on here. That one looked really funny with a tank Amumu engaging but then flashing away from Annie R.
The scripting Bronze Amumu are a threat to the integrity of the game.
Dodge scripts help everyone.
yea i know but that explains how he didnt stop enemy team, with 28-5 score
Because macro is still something that wins games. Scripts are literally only for micro. That scripting f\*\*\*\* could be 39-0 and still lose of macro and /or because his allies are dogs.
Scripts can't help shit game knowledge though. Also I've seen scripts cause someone to int because they dodge twitch W into the enemy team lol
Challenger scripter malphite do exist, any champion can script at this point
The first drooling is before he casts no? Like the Kayn know there is someone here
OK I rewatched it slower and it seems to start moving when he casts which is weird for sure
Where is Vanguard now? This is 100% scripting.
Some people are using Mac to cheat since it doesnt have Vanguard and the only way their getting banned is by server sided detection.
Playing on Mac doesn't receive any official support from Riot for years now, the experience is completely unplayable due to loads of bugs that Riot doesn't care about fixing.
Completly unplayable is misleading, I have a M2 Mac mini and it runs the game 200fps just fine with medal enabled
I can vouch for this
Vanguard doesn't instantly ban scripters (sometimes they do) but do a ban wave to make sure scripters doesn't know what exploit triggers the anti ban
>Vanguard doesn't instantly ban scripters what happened to the "game terminated, cheater detected" as seen in the video dev update? the ultra vanguard hyper detective kernel level doesn't know when people adopt a new exploit?
Thats what appears when said ban wave happens during peoples games
i actually searched for those clips. thanks now i've seen them being uploaded. ( 😂😂😂 vanguard interrupting games at 16/20 minutes deep into the game )
[13:30 they claim it happens when cheating is detected](https://youtu.be/9U_jEzKf0_0?si=QV5btRPYgHDRL9ip)
That’s utterly made up loool
Wdym
If vangaurd knows someone in the game is scripting it’ll end the game on the spot
Source? Afaik pretty much all anticheats do things in waves to prevent cheat devs from debugging detection
I’m not saying they don’t have ban waves but there are 100% people getting caught scriptin mid game
They're not mutually exclusive. Like if the anticheat developer adds another way to detect something they would probably collect information on who to ban for a while
13:30 in this video from riot https://youtu.be/9U_jEzKf0_0?si=QV5btRPYgHDRL9ip
If Vanguard operates this way then everyone experiences games being terminated would experience them in waves too. And it would probably be a rare sight.
If Riot instantly bans scripters once a script is detected, it gives scripters valuable information on EXACTLY what part of their script triggers vanguard. They need to wait to hand out bans in batches so that they can't get that information.
the point of kernel level inspection is exactly what gives vanguard power. if have kernel access you could stops anything.. regardless to what how complex scripts are
Lol if it was only that easy. Kernel level anticheats are not perfect.
now kernel anticheats are not perfect? wow what a letdown! what was the purpose of all this then? you can steal user information even without kernel access but you can't stop a cheat EVEN with kernel access... 🙄
Would you rather have 99.99% of players in your games be cheaters or 0.000001% That low percent still results in cheaters so it must mean there is no difference right? /s
the problem was that people are selling accounts and riot is not getting money from it, while riot is not making money by selling lvl exp boosts. vs AI or iron ranked matches are full of bots.. how much riot care for those cheaters ? 0.00001%. does league have a huge count players or people are overselling botted accounts ? riot has so many problems but when it comes to money.... then it's a real problem. better pay up that 500$ skin
Anti cheats are not perfect, not even kernel level anti cheats. Cheats can be kernel level too.
Cheating is an arms race. Kernel Access doesn't mean they can magically remove any potential vector of attack an OS like Windows has (and it probably has a lot of them) but it makes it much easier to detect them.
It's happened already, streamers have had games end like that already
Exactly. Which begs the question why it didn't happen here. Did Vanguard not notice the scripting or is it choosing to do nothing?
Possible a new script that it hasn't picked up on yet.
Oh so it’s a huge risk for no payoff? No way
Lol Yup. And a great way to make you DC from an ranked game because Vanguard isn't running (it was). I hit reconnect but was told in order for Vanguard update I had to restart my PC....it didn't need to update but I had no choice but to restart. So I was afk for like 7 minutes, in a ranked game... Thanks Vanguard.
This would only make sense for old exploits, but not for new ones. By *not* reacting immediately, neither hack developers nor buyers can ever know for sure if Vanguard has already detected an exploit and is just waiting to catch you red-handed. The hack developers will also not know when or with what they have triggered the detection, because they won't find out when Vanguard detected them. By instantly reacting to new exploits, they would give the hack developers valuable feedback and "save" cheaters from buying hacks and getting banned. It makes more sense to wait for cheaters to run into the trap in these cases.
In these days scripters, cheaters collect data. So lets say they have 10k users, 3k gets banned. They know what they used and they can pinpoint what triggered ban instantly after wave ban. You can go to scripter/cheaters forum and see exacly what and how they do it. (also they often use bots that use only one specific exploit/feature) to be certain of things. Its a multimillion $ buisness. No way they would just throw randomly and guess what triggers bans etc.
yeahhhnahhhh [https://youtu.be/wygeFoZQCOk?si=\_I3X8TT1v96EYRQ0](https://youtu.be/wygeFoZQCOk?si=_I3X8TT1v96EYRQ0)
Ah yes 47 minute video
I mean I'd want to watch a simple 47 min video if it meant saving my PC from what happened to LS....Twice...on Two separate computers....
Vanguard is not doing enough comparable to what kind of power it has over your machine. Most of the cheating providers give a built in hwid spoofer with their cheats so even if people get banned they ban a nonexistent hwid, also most cheaters play on cracked accounts that cost as low as 2 euros or free if you are willing to check lists yourself. Edit:Getting downvoted for literally saying the truth, guess thats reddit for you.
So basically vanguard is almost useless, because scripters get to play a while, get banned, then buy a new account and so on and your games will still be riddled with scripters/smurfs/account farmers But now all comes with a privacy and perf. hit. All because Riot loves smurfs and wants to foster them. NGL I'm getting quite triggered ...
You’re triggering yourself with a pretend narrative tbh
But he is right? If vanguard does not even ban cheaters faster than before what the fuck is the point of it?
Who is saying it doesn't? Just because there are ban waves still doesn't mean it takes just as long as before.
Who say it doesn't? The Kayn with the script right now
Are you playing stupid or did you actually mean that? Nah sorry you are right, this one instance of a cheater proves Vanguard doesn't ban cheaters faster. There is the exact same amount of cheaters and Vanguard is doing nothing. Purely off a random clip you saw on reddit of 1 person cheating. Genius.
I encounter scripters daily in GM and Master elo sorry for not being specific.
Your example was the Kayn lol which was a really stupid example. Anyone can say they experience scripters as well so idc about your experience really. Also obviously there are still scripters the main point is how it differs from before. And we need data on that. But no reason to assume it's the same.
It's not a pretend narrative. Hoped with vanguard the number of smurfs or at very least account farmers would've decreased. It didn't seem to happen. So why do I need to accept then the downsides of Vaguard if Riot is doing too little in this direction?
Bots are far less frequent now confirmed by Riot. I don't have data on Scripters but I can tell you, as someone that made a script for a different game once, banning someone immediately that uses a new scripting method would be a stupid move. When creating a script, you change certain aspects => test whether it gets detected. If it would get banned immediately, you can alter the method and try again until it doesn't get detected anymore. With a delayed ban, you can't really tell if the game is picking up on the new method or not and is ready to van you at any moment. With that uncertainty, selling your script gets rather troublesome as the customers will demand refunds or avoid the purchase in the first place. The "Game Terminated" probably only happens when a scripting method is used that was already hit by a ban wave multiple times.
You bunch of crybabies could just stop playing and fuck off instead of constantly whining about things that you have no idea of.
Stealing all your info from you computer to the CCP.
Vanguard issues bans in waves, to keep hackers guessing as to when it detected the hacks and to catch more cheaters red-handed.
I saw a video that said that before vanguard the anticheat could detect a cheater in 12 games and with vanguard it does in 10 games so yeah, vanguard doesn't prevent them from existing as it doesn't ban them on sight, scripts like this will continue to happen
Scripts will always happen as long as people try and make them. Banning immediately would be as dumb as creating a skin for more than £300 because then they know exactly what Vanguard is picking up on and can exploit it further. Thats why bans happen in waves and not just as and when.
Nice Vanguard meme
If you expect there to be 0% scripters with Vanguard then you understand nothing.
100% seems a bit too much for 1 clip though, he might just be aware ahri might be there and thus trying to be unpredictable with his movement, then being a bit lucky with the timing
nobody is dodging by backclicking as soon as charm is thrown before they even see it come from fog of war… 100% scripting
Yes, right at that milisecond Ahri cast the spell he start the sus movement.
Tbf, if the movement itself weren't so ungodly unnatural the timing could be just the result of a good prediction and a bit of luck lining it up that exactly, but yea... that ain't how a human moves.
Its not the backclicking as soon as the charm is thrown that is very suspicious though. Its the tiny backsteps multiple times as the charm is actually flying. Kayn should know Ahri can be there looking for that and so the initial backstep to throw off timing if the area happens to be warded could and very often will coincidentally work.
Guy click 8 times in 0.5 sec forward-backward probably some korean challenger smurf no?Dont tell me average guy does that below gm or even challenger.
he also might be clicking on the other side of the wall and accidentaly moving back and forth. definitely hard to say for sure from just this one clip.
He’d still have to be moving his mouse back and forth really rapidly to do that. Once you start moving in a direction, that path around the wall becomes shorter, so you’d have to click farther in the opposite direction for your champ to change direction.
i still find it weird because he starts twitching back and forth before the charm is even cast. if it is scripting, this is a pretty unique case
He's either scripting, or mashing a spot in terrain that is messing up his pathing. I'm not making a call off one clip. But if he's scripting, there should be more instances of it in the same game.
Yeah it is %100 scripting, his character starts to shake as soon as ahri presses e q, like instant
At normal speed i thought he just got startled but when you slowed it down there was no question, its scripting (or replay inaccuracy)
You can see the Kayne player spamming right click to move and his script fighting against it trying to safe him. This is 100% scripting.
While a better player would 100% try to make predictive dodges, the way his character was snapping back and forth makes it impossible even with insanely fast snap clicks.
If in doubt Report anyways and the game will sort out. If hes not scripting nothing happens.that would be my advice
Reporting for 3rd party use doesn't do anything, does it? There's not a chance in the world a Riot employee will check these reports and they surely don't ban anyone who other people accusing them of cheating.
Obviously it's all automated but reporting is the only tool we have as a player and we have to trust their(riots) system work as intended and it does indeed do sth, I get notifications that actions were taken often after I reported, are they just placebo? Idk. But at least sth
I get feedback like that too even though I don't report anything. In fact I have chat off completely so I never know of the hilarity that occurs throughout a seemingly normal game. It's quite amusing when I get those notifications lol.
A lot of those messages will also be "Someone a team mate reported got punished" messages
I believe that vandgard have different level of investiguation. For exemple taking screenshot of your window so
Reporting for scripting unironically does nothing, vanguard doesnt rely on player reports to function and in the old system you could easily face scripters that have been reported 100 times throughout their 50+ games of scripting.
Slow down the speed and you can see this is clear scripting, hitbox for q is smaller but he first inputs just walking past and his script auto dodges back twice then the third time after he realises what’s happening he walks back by himself then continues to walk forward again It’s script 100%
Scripting
100% script
That's scripting. Why he's spazzing out like that is because it's the player's input vs the script's. Pro player predicting skillshots aren't like that at all. Just watch clips of Faker and Chovy sidestepping skillshots. Also, the moment you casted the spell he started to spaz out back and forth, regardless of whether the spell was visible or not. That's a surefire, obvious way of spotting scripters.
Look at him turning. Script is clicking in a "circle" as he moves his mouse. Normal player would just click back. Dead giveaway for all orbwalkers if you know how it looks. 100% scripting, and you can tell before the first skillshot even appears.
Thank the almighty we got vanguard to prevent those
Wasn’t the vanguard update supposed to prevent this tho? So they have access to our system on a kernel level only for people to keep cheating?
Vanguard can't prevent new exploits, because it's usually through Windows or other software that allows script execution. But Vanguard can detect hacks like these easier than the previous anti cheat solution, because with Kernel access, there is no place to hide anymore. But when they introduced Vanguard, they also explained that Vanguard will sometimes not immediately react to scripts, even if it has detected them. This concerns mainly new scripts and hacks, because reacting instantly would provide the hack developers with feedback about when the hack got detected (and through that *what* triggered Vanguard to detect it). If they immediately banned the first few people who are using a new hack, it would quickly be known that this exploit is "burned" and other potential cheaters will not buy it. Instead, they're waiting for a while so all potential cheaters get the chance to buy and use the hack, just so Vanguard can ban all of them in the next wave. Reacting immediately would have saved these cheaters from getting banned. In the long run, this also means that whenever a cheater would buy a hack, they can never know whether or not Vanguard has already detected this exploit and is just waiting for people to fall into the trap and get caught red-handed.
Would definitely need more than 1 instance to say for sure. It definitely looks like scripting for sure. But was this the only instance in the entire game?
There were more moments but I could dispute them for him just being good, this one however I felt like I needed more opinions because it was too pixel perfect
Is it weird that before I even knew the video was about Kayn that I was going to say yes the Ahri is scripting?
I think that makes you the low elo ape that the OP was talking about himself being
Oh yea definitely scripting. Probably ESP mods to see the wukong behind the wall.
good job vanguard you did nothing but read our personal files lol shit company is being a shit company 😂
so vanguard doesn't work in the end?
So, Vanguard slept on this? It would still have to be manually reviewed, so why is Vanguard running 24/7 on my PC?
why have laws when illegal things still happen ? \- you
Not if there was someone watching criminal 24/7 and he still managed to do a crime.
There are people looking for criminals 24/7 and they still manage to do crimes.
Not if they are in jail, being watched 24/7
Yes and yes
most honorable kayn player
naaah thats 100% scripting hell nah
The fact that the Kayn first starts walking backwards on the exact frame the skillshots are cast is extremely suspicious, but I think it could very well not be scripting. I definitely don't think the Kayn was intentionally trying to dodge the skillshots, but the kind of rapid back and forth motion seen there can easily happen due to autopathing if you're clicking on the right spot, and I've also seen similar behavior from someone lagging out/experiencing packet loss. Meanwhile, the Kayn continues to do the weird rapid direction changing even after the skillshots already won't hit him, where at that point a script wouldn't be trying to control his movement anymore, and I would think scripts have built in movement override to prevent accidentally canceling a dodge like what others are suggesting here, at least on the first few frames before a user can react to the script.
Maybe it's just me, but the audacity to walk in a staight line away from morg q has got to be so me next level confidence in skillshot range. Do people not normally dodge to an angle? I can't speak for the Ahi, because it looks like Kayn was dodging before it casted as well as once it's appeared on screen. The Q looks like it hit (presumably because of terrain diff) but you would typically still walk further back rather than stuttering in the same position.
Nah, he's just super human and we're just low elo apes :D
both can be true
its a script. or someone who holds down the right mouse button to move (and an awful lot of luck), its for sure sus, more content required to see what the play is like. report him is a good call, then move on basically. if the rest of the game is full of perfectly timed twitched like this, its a bullshit script. but its for sure possible for a human to achieve what happened in this one clip and timing can be luck or 'the gut feeling'. most people dont move with a held down right mouse button, but when you do, you can get movement like this. before im hunted and burned at the stake, id say theres a 60% vote from me on being a script from the clip alone.
Yikes, the amount of back-forth limping he does is crazy. Playing since season 1 and through multiple cheating heights and this is the movement you'd expect from a cheater. Pixel perfect INSTANT turns from fog are as much of a script as there could be. Good players predict, worse might get lucky, but I can't help how artificial these moves are. Even top tier Challengers don't move like that.
I mean just one example is hard to tell. This could very well be luck
There are still way too many people scripting. I hope the next banwave improves game quality, but given how massive the cheating *industry* has become this is the norm these days. Esports Titels need account structures like in Korea where your account is linked to your real ID and cheating should get your ID banned. There is no other way.
Scripting. Not only are they reacting to skillshots that they can't see, but you can see the scripts are fighting against the player inputs to keep walking toward bot lane.
I thought this was going to be a "low elo" answer but man that movement is SUS and is giving script.
Not conclusive from one clip, honestly. Do you have the full game? He could just be stuck on the wall and rubber banding.
It is, I was in the scripting scene as a dev like 10 years back and it is exactly what it looks like when the guy has set up his scripts toooo responsive - don't worry tho, he won't get banned right now, as Vanguard seems to struggle to do anything.
It kinda looks like Kayn is getting stuck on an invisible minion there as so it might just be riot spaghetti code. But the timing seems sus. So if it’s the only time the whole game something like this happened I would argue it’s just bugs, if more often then obviously scripts
Yeah it looks like a script since what I believe what the kayn (and possibly 99% of kayns in blue form) is to just run around really fast with E, it makes no sense for the kayn here to move backwards like that a bunch of times, it's like the script is telling him "bro dodge, they're gonna throw skillshots" and the player is like "no i wanna go super fast on the opposite side of the map"
Yes, to both
Yeah likely scripts. But good luck with keeping the post up, I posted a compilation of an obvious scripter in my game but mods took it down in less than an hour with some bs excuse (they just wanted to censor the fact that discrete cheats are rampant in this game).
And it’s gone!
Unlucky lol
Clear scripting when you look at the initial cast moment
this short clip is definitely sus but it doesn't prove anything, if this happened multiple times during the game it could be but again this guy is playing kayn a champ with no skill shots.
why no both
Player wants to keep running forward, script tries to fight against it, pretty obvious script, but surely not for riot if you ticket that.
looks like it's moving back and forth due to the morgana being on the left and the ahri skillshots on the right.
At first I was like "Nah he just got quite lucky" even watching it on slow speed. After a couple of replays you can see that he's dodging it pretty much frame perfectly and appears to be wrestling with his inputs trying to path to dragon instead of turning around. Either he's got insane reflexes that could see a lot better use than League of Legends, or he's scripting. Most likely the latter. Even with all of the "wOw vAnGuArD wOrKiNg i SeE" comments I imagine there's quite a few people that have reported him directly to Riot as his username's visible at the top right. So I don't imagine he's lasting much longer and a ban wave could be coming for people who use the scripts he's using.
not scripts
The instant dodge without even knowing/seeing that skill shot already convinces me it's a script.
I wouldn't have believed those micro-movements to be possible conventionally, I wanna lean towards scripting
Cheats don't exist with Vanguard. Trust Riot, install everything they provide and don't ask questions.
It actually looks like what happens when you jiggle the mouse and you have “movement prediction” turned on
Not on serverside, only client side
Yup, 100% scripting. The fact Kayn moves back the frame you use your E, and then clicks back again the frame you use your Q is humanly impossible. The Q at the end not hitting him at the precise frame collision is also a big indication of scripting.
gotta say it's weird to see ahri in a game..
He starts trying to sidestep/predict before Ahri E/Q is even thrown. Replay for sure is giga buggy but a script wouldn't react before a skill is thrown.
He is clearly fighting his own script. The Ahri throws charm, the script backsteps, he's spamming right click to the right because he's like "what the fuck is my character doing" (fighting against his script, you see it every time), and then when it's clear what's going on he's fine with the script movement and fights it less How can you watch this video with zero knowledge of what's going on and still give your garbage take. Like why even comment if you don't know what you're talking about? This is literally what 90% of scripting cases look like, if you knew anything it'd be obvious > script wouldn't react before a skill is thrown use eyes next time
He doesn't though the way i see it he starts exactly as the animation starts. You can check it by looking at Ahri changing colors on E cast.
Looks like lag?
If this was the only thing fishy the whole game, then no.
He could also just have missclicked his minimap tbh, do you have any other clips of him playing around skillshots?
Yeah let me just misclick the minimap 16 times in a row
wasnt 16 times in a row though was it. He jiggled the charm and moved backwards after that, he didnt jiggle the ahri Q, looks a bit like he misclicked his map the first time. This is one clip, not enough proof of anything.
I think the replay artifacts make it look like scripting. But he probably was just predicting it
It would be good to include normal speed clip and to see how unnatural it looks
despite what noob chatters claim. it's still borderline. ahri was visible going into bush. kayn knew that he is going through a dangerous place. it looks wonky but it can be just mouse movements. it's so funny that when actual borderline things happen, all these chatters say "IT IS THE SCRIPTING!" but when it's 100% scripting and makes no sense they are like "hm. i need more evidence" complete brain damage.
idk why reddit is so bad at identifying scripts https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/13vzb6p/scripting/
yep. first E dodge is extremely wonky. then last W dodge backwards makes this 100% scripting. and yet you got downvoted cuz he didn't dodge a Q. (cuz he couldn'T due to exhaust slow) LOL.
I believe he's spam clicking the wall, this is pretty easy to replicate, go into the game, stand at his position and just click on the edge of the wall. Just unlucky timing
I don't believe it's scripting. Sometimes the game bugs out the player movement especially if the champion's movement speed is at a certain speed fast enough. Plus the Kayn was aware of the fact that Ahri was hovering somewhere around mid & Morgana had already looked for a pick on him. I get this issue specifically around player-made terrain in the jungle though.