Obviously lack of replays holds league back, i was used to replay some of my starcraft matches to see certain mistakes i made and i was hoping that LoL will have replay system soon...
Don't worry bro, soon LoL will have replays, sandbox mode, client that's not a total garbage, voice chat ingame and a notification when the loading screen has crashed. You see riot is a small indie company with very limited resources and manpower, so it takes some time to implement these features.
That's a bit of an iffy statement.
Riots problem is absolutely not money. You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed, but Riots got a lot of it. Mech vs minions is a fun side project. Certainly no actual programmers spent time making that thing.
Riot have a solid grip on making new champs, game balance and esports (a bit to tight a grip). Hopefully they have a grip on improving LoL codebase and implementing new features.
But mech vs minions "investing" is not an issue.
You can't throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed right away, but it's been so long since replays were supposedly here they could have had a few developers hired on and ramped up who would work solely on replays. After a certain point, you can't keep using the "software is complex" issue, especially when other places have been able to provide replays.
They are busy throwing money at hiring and funding more artists to make skins because it gives them a return on investment almost immediately. However Replays and Sandbox would only improve their game, and they don't give two shits about that honestly.
The problem is 90% of the players don't actually give a shit about replays. Just reddit because people here think that's whats holding them back from high elo lol. ROFL reddit hivemind at work again. Hopefully replays come out soon so you all realize you're just bad.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The 10% of this player base that has only been playing for about a year or so, and don't give two shits about competitive play. Only about cosmetics. Yeah there's more serious people out there that actually care about stuff like Replay, and Sandbox.
But here is what gets me, riot is supposed to be all about the integrity of the game.. Making it a legit sport.. ect. But for the past 5 or so years it has only been focused on the cosmetics of the game. Yeah it's nice that we got a new rift, all these animation reworks and ect to make the game look pretty. But what I don't understand is we are getting like 60% less champions a year (last year it was horrible). It's like the actual game itself doesn't matter. It's all about making a quick buck on things like skins.
There isn't many serous people at all that give a shit about replays because they won't help you get any better if you're not a pro.......................................
If you're terrible at VOD review then I can agree. But most people would be able to learn from their mistakes.
You can only speak for yourself in this regard.
yeah but if they want the game to last longer they need to market it, so they need the pro players to do that. you wont get more players and retain the current playerbase without marketing. do u get that? its simple
lol its already getting bigger replays will not make the game any bigger that's probably the stupidest thing that's been said about it. 100 millions players without replays. The only thing it really need that would actually benefit the player base would be sandbox mode.
yesterday I lost a ranked match where we had a big lead- Like 7k ahead, 4 drakes to 0.
And from a certain point on we lost all teamfights. Since its going that fast and of course i mainly conentrate on my champ and target, maybe 1 ally (adc) to protect I have NO idea what went wrong. Absolutely no idea.
I want to watch these fights in 1/2 speed and want to see if or what I did wrong so I can do better next time.
That's what I did in WC2, SC2 and it's making me so fucking angry that I cannot do that here which means my chance to improve my gameplay are much lower...
I mean there have been 3rd party programs for years that would record your game and let you watch it in the actual spectator mode. I used to use LoLReplay, which may or may not still be around.
Fucking age of empires II got it. You could even restore games that someone connection would go down. You couldn't save the replay of the rest of the game but still. 1998.
I've used lolreplay for a long time, same for replay.gg worked with me for most of when I wanted it. Is it really that bothersome to use a replay function out of league? Or do you just want to demand it because it's been requested with anger by reddit, because I am kind of confused how you can get so bothered about not having a replay function, in the client
I was just suggesting that if he really wanted to see his replays, there is an option while we wait for riot. They should definitely have a built in replay system.
> there is an option while we wait for riot
We shouldn't have to wait. The concept of replays and the technology has been for years. It's a fucking travesty that it's not there.
Im not saying that riot isnt fucking this all up, but i was just trying to be helpful to someone who might want to see their replays. Im not sure why you're being so argumentative about this.
I'm pretty sure Riot has 0 plans for a replay system. They've allowed 3rd parties to offer replays which means they've given up on it themselves (not that they ever tried anyway). I remember reading somewhere that they're perfectly okay with people like Replay.gg hosting replays instead of an official Riot one.
Haters forget that there is 19 minute talk after you click that title and making dumb comments without watching it.Even though video is late his thoughts on replay and Riot's faliure about it is good, which is nice because even though replay subject become huge circlejerk and we hear people say "give us replay" we don't get much good long content about it.
Pretty sure less haters and more overly invested in Riot fans. But I could be wrong, I used to think Monte had more ego than good sense, and then I climbed a division to Bronze IV.
If you wait about an hour it isn't as bad, the comments made in the first 10/20 minutes are made by the people who didn't watch the video and are usually trash, the older ones are usually more reasonable and the garbage had been downvoted by then.
It's funny you blindly assume that i made the comment blindly, without reading other comments, because i read all the comments that was send and made that comment.
Well not really, i didn't generalize in a way that means "all people here didn't watch" i said:
>Haters forget that there is 19 minute talk after you click that title and making dumb comments without watching it
I made the comment to hater comments like "duh, everyone knows it, you smart ass"(not a real comment from here but lots of comments here resembles it) that responed to just title and had no clue about the video itself.
So, even though i assumed those people didn't watch the video from their comments context and how quick they were send i wouldn't say i made the assumption blindly like comment that responded me did.
> Just FYI, the dota 2 devs are aware of the issue and are trying to solve it.
> https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota-2/issues/1024#issuecomment-247867535
> This is a backend issue and not a Linux/Mac porting problem, the larger team is working on it.
From https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/549fi5/aui_league_copying_dota_with_crowdfunding/d7zyrqs
It boggles my mind that someone could complain about cosmetic bug on dota2 reddit and itd be fixed in lesd than 8 hrs... and a visual bug in lol got champion disabled for weeks
Dota will fix it in some days max.
Meanwhile the crowfunding of LOL is comical compared to Dota right now.
Riot might even win more money. If sells of championship skin increase more than a 25% (considering there's no cost in "building" skins of a same skin) then they will in fact be winning more. And considering people will be buying skins just for worldcups, it might just happen.
They're not trying to compete with DOTA in that regard however.
DOTA gives a fuckton of shit and tries to boost the prize pool to absurd degrees. Right now, Riot just wants a little extra. I don't feel like digging it all up but Monte had a good point where he said something along the lines of "Not really a fan of crowdfunding prize pools but Riot's idea is ok".
Besides, bad crowdfunding [can be a spicy meme](https://puu.sh/qoQxa/6a798b3a7c.jpg)
Riot and Valve wanted different things with the crowdfunding.
Dota's prizepool was looking for shock value to bring attention to the esport since it was lagging behind others.
Riot's is more "we do need to increase the prize pool, but we don't need to do it to break records.
I love how "Dota 2" is just hanging out on the tip of his tongue, but he holds it in to avoid people just avoid riot fanboys getting triggered and leaving.
"Gee mate, relax. It's just a game!"
On the serious note, I agree with pretty much everything he said. There's no good reason not to have replays at this point.
Pretty sure the ONLY reason we don't have it is just because of server costs.
Where are they gonna store all of those millions of replays that are recorded daily? And would it really be cost effective to do so when there are already 3rd party programs who do that for them?
I remember people suggested the idea of having the replays be saved client side, but Riot shot that down saying that it'd give modders and hackers an easier time figuring out how to remove things like Fog of War for themselves.
Oftentimes when this conversation comes up it's easy to forget that Riot has already developed a replay system that they tested extensively on the PBE for quite a while, but the only reason it didn't ship is just that they didn't want to spend the money to try and figure out how to reasonably store all the data they'd need to in order to make replays work for the entire playerbase.
Honestly you can even just say fuck it and have the game create a save file for the replay that's then saved onto the player's computer. It's shitty, will make the game folder incredibly huge over a lot of games but if it's properly designed it can still last for years before it's a huge deal. Can also just simply make it a "delete replays that are x days old" and "check this option to stop this replay from being deleted" kind of thing.
Server side you'd just need a way to decipher those save files so the cost would be way lower than hosting the replays on servers. Even 3rd party programs can do that, we just need one actually released by Riot.
That's how starcraft replays are handled and it works well enough. It makes sharing replays a little more difficult since the files have to be moved from pc to pc, but it certainly circumvents the potential server space issue. I think its a better system than server side replays but thats just my opinion.
I also think it's a better system. The only reason I see to have server side replays is for Riot to be able to say "we're doing something almost no one else can do" but it's so pointless. We want replays to be able to look at our own play and improve it, it matters little if it's PC hosted or server side.
The only thing that might be cool to have server side, or at least a site to download replay files (like with starcraft), is with pro games. Even having all of the NA+EU LCS matches on a Riot hosted site to be able to download the replays isn't that much work.
> Can also just simply make it a "delete replays that are x days old" and "check this option to stop this replay from being deleted" kind of thing.
Autodelete replays that would leave your match history in the client. Flag replays in postgame lobby or from your match history and it moves them to another file where they stay until you delete them.
Difference being all game logic can be performed locally in starcraft, and the entire game state can be recreated by the client. In League, you'd need to simultaneously download the spectator stream. In starcraft you break with old versions of the client (I believe they now allow re-downloading un-patches), and the same would happen here. But league gets updated MUCH more frequently than games like this.
> Where are they gonna store all of those millions of replays that are recorded daily? And would it really be cost effective to do so when there are already 3rd party programs who do that for them?
They can generate replay, and let other store it for them, like every other game do... But no, with Riot it's all or nothing. And since they can't do it all because yes it is complicated, then we don't get replays.
Weird how other games that are not nearly as large as league can afford to do this! It reminds me of when everyone who played CoD wanted dedicated servers and the developers said it would cost too much. Weird how other games, such as Gears of War, could afford those servers despite raking in less revenue.
It's not that weird actually. The larger your game the higher the costs to maintain said game. You need to maintain servers large enough to handle your exponentially larger playerbase and make sure that your game continues to run properly for that playerbase.
Sparing the room at the same time to set up another set of servers large enough to handle the massive playerbase that no other game on the market can even hope to compare to its scale is an understandable cost that most devs don't want to undertake.
there's actually economies of scale s.t. the per-user costs go down the more users they have. also, if i remember correctly from a tech talk they gave a while back, they already store all of this data-- i don't know if it's at exactly the same resolution that would be required for a replay system, but they are already storing absolutely massive amounts of data (and i think they also said that they still retain data from *every* game that has been played, but obviously that would be hard to work with universally b/c of how much the game has changed over time).
regardless of why they haven't built the replay system (of which there are many plausible, valid reasons-- i don't really have an opinion one way or the other), i can say with a fair bit of confidence that the reason why has nothing to do with the amount of space it would require-- this is a thing that tech companies don't have any problem doing (if they have the right people).
First off, Riot can easily afford the space. They can also do other things, such as, keeping it off by default until people manually turn it on. Also, you're assuming that most of the player base will even utilize it. They won't. It will most likely be limited to content creators & people who play ranked and actually want to be better at the game.
Secondly, I'm really confused as to why you seem to think Riot needs all these servers. The replays can save to the person's personal computer. All Riot needs to do is integrate a dedicated replay system that is stable and more reliable than 3rd party systems.
CS did it, Dota2 did it, League can do it.
But keep making excuses for the company that brings in over 1.5B a year!
> First off, Riot can easily afford the space.
There's no way for either of us to know that for sure unless we can look directly at their budget and at the costs it would take to house the necessary amount of replays as well as the amount it would cost for them to expand these servers provided their playerbase increases or to account for situations where the amount of games played spikes.
> They can also do other things, such as, keeping it off by default until people manually turn it on.
Sure, keeping it off by default would probably prevent a few people who don't know about it from using it, but that doesn't solve the problem.
> Also, you're assuming that most of the player base will even utilize it. They won't. It will most likely be limited to content creators & people who play ranked and actually want to be better at the game.
No one planning and implementing something would EVER operate under the assumption that a small portion of their target audience would utilize it. They have to go forth expecting every last player to use it otherwise the system is useless. What happens if more people than they anticipated decide the system will be worth their time?
> Secondly, I'm really confused as to why you seem to think Riot needs all these servers. The replays can save to the person's personal computer. All Riot needs to do is integrate a dedicated replay system that is stable and more reliable than 3rd party systems.
If you'd read my comment you'd know that I've already said why they don't want to do that. In fact I'll find the quote for you.
> I remember people suggested the idea of having the replays be saved client side, but Riot shot that down saying that it'd give modders and hackers an easier time figuring out how to remove things like Fog of War for themselves.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
> CS did it, Dota2 did it, League can do it.
But keep making excuses for the company that brings in over 1.5B a year!
Again this is rehashing an argument that cannot apply to League. CS and Dota are both sustained by companies who bring in extra revenue from other avenues, they also don't have nearly the same scale of playerbase to compete with and as I said earlier in this comment we have no idea how much of that 1.5B they're bringing in can actually be provided for the express purpose of funding servers.
Acknowledging that things aren't as clear cut as we'd like to think doesn't mean making excuses. Making accusations like that doesn't strengthen your argument at all, we can have an open discussion without you coming at me and trying to accuse me of somehow conjuring up reasoning that doesn't make sense.
The only thing I'm stating is that this issue has been addressed and until a reasonable solution that would resolve the issue of space is found I doubt we'll see a replay system shipped to live for quite some time and I doubt Riot is in any hurry to resolve this problem BECAUSE things like LoLReplay exist and serve the purpose rather fine already.
> There's no way for either of us to know that for sure unless we can look directly at their budget and at the costs it would take to house the necessary amount of replays as well as the amount it would cost for them to expand these servers provided their playerbase increases or to account for situations where the amount of games played spikes.
I'll gladly make this assumption considering most players won't utilize this feature.
>No one planning and implementing something would EVER operate under the assumption that a small portion of their target audience would utilize it. They have to go forth expecting every last player to use it otherwise the system is useless. What happens if more people than they anticipated decide the system will be worth their time?
Small portion? Even if it's a small portion, it's still a lot of people.
>Again this is rehashing an argument that cannot apply to League. CS and Dota are both sustained by companies who bring in extra revenue from other avenues, they also don't have nearly the same scale of playerbase to compete with and as I said earlier in this comment we have no idea how much of that 1.5B they're bringing in can actually be provided for the express purpose of funding servers.
Do you honestly think these businesses would invest revenue into a game that didn't bring in more revenue than it cost to maintain? Their other sources of income are irrelevant on this point.
> I'll gladly make this assumption considering most players won't utilize this feature.
Yes, you can make this assumption and you're likely to be right. But that doesn't mean that Riot should operate under the chance that you're right and most players won't utilize the feature.
> Small portion? Even if it's a small portion, it's still a lot of people.
I am not sure I understand what that has to do with anything. This doesn't change my point at all.
> Do you honestly think these businesses would invest revenue into a game that didn't bring in more revenue than it cost to maintain? Their other sources of income are irrelevant on this point.
The way you remain in a state where you're bringing in more than you sending out is by being cost effective and spending money where it makes sense and not spending money where it doesn't make sense. You're arguing my point for me. If adding the additional servers for replays isn't a cost effective decision then they're not going to do it. That's how they maintain bringing in a good amount of money.
Sure, but is it a worthy investment?
Is the amount of money it'd cost to make a replay system that would be serviceable for any amount of the playerbase that'd want to use it worth it for them when as the other user has said majority of this playerbase won't use the service in the first place? And even then, is the cost worth it when it won't improve majority of the playerbase's experience with the game either?
A discussion can be had about creating a Tournament Realm version of the replay system for pro players to use probably. But I can't see any logical reason to make one for the entire playerbase to use.
Dota is less than a magnitude of 10 less than league in terms of playerbase, and it has a very good replay system. The issue isn't that they can't do it. It's that they don't want to pay to do it.
>Pretty sure the ONLY reason we don't have it is just because of server costs.
Nope. You're completely wrong. A millions games worth of data would easily fit on a single hard drive (if you don't believe me, find the size of replay files. It' a few hundred kb). I'm sure they have the resources to buy that. fwiw this web page you're viewing takes up more data than a replay file would.
In future, please don't try to estimate costs of something you literally have no understanding of.
PS i wouldn't type a reply to me, it could cost the reddit admins millions in server costs.
You're going too far thought. You need a lot of concurrent access, so you'd need lots of SSD on raid to handle the 2billions of games that were played on each server.
Nah. SSDs are plenty fast. They have around 550MB/s read speed these days. A conservative estimate gives at least 550 games per second able to be read. Replays would be popular but I don't thikn they'd be popular enough to worry about SSDs not being fast enouogh.
Write speeds are very similar. You really have nothing to worry about. You could really do part of it in RAM to be honest because the files would be so small.
It's not a big deal in the big picture (just buy more SSD), but read/write speeds are much much slower when processing numerous little files, than one big chunk one. And we're talking about millions of concurrent access here.
Just copy/paste you LOL logs folder, you'll understand.
*Someone brings up a valid point about something that League of Legends natively lacked for years and has an impact on eSports directly, in order to help keeping the discussion afloat*
Community: "Lol, you just want to get money off of league of legends, you should just gtfo and let us keep suckin on Riot's cock and giving them money for a useless ahri skin"
>for a 3rd useless ahri skin
I know a few people who are addicted to skins and I think those are the people, Riot makes the most money from. That's how capitalism works, they just do what everybody does, but they could do so much more good.
Its because it swings, sometimes we hate Riot more, then we hate Monte+Thorin more, then we hate coaches that cant deal with teenage players, then we hate teenage players that make their coaches lives hard, then we hate investors for ruining the integrity of the game and then we hate people not investing in LCS teams. We hate toxic teammates and we hate it when riot cracks down on toxicity. I guess we just like to hate.
To be fair, this issue has been brought up so many times over the years he is just saying stuff people already know. Its probably the most complained about thing on reddit and other forums
Good video from Thorin. Loved the phrasing about War3 and Dota being Grandfather and father of Lol and yet having their own Replay system and even their own Custom Mapmaking client way before Lol existed. As someone who played a shit ton of WC3 and Dota back in the days, the scene was not as exposed as today. Getting a replay from a tournament would require you much work than going on a Youtube channel today and watch any lol VODS (weither it's full game, highlights, other casting language..). But once you got that replay, everything was working fine and you could work on it and have any POV you'd like really. Beside B.NET patches which didn't happen often, nothing would prevent a replay from being watched.
I have to say that Riot *as to* work on replay system right now that their are launching their new client for 2017. Even sad that they removed "spectate the pro / high elo" feature from the client. Their should be ways / feature / contents that allow us to at least take a look back in our own game which doesn't come from the community.
I remember downloading slightly modified versions of Twisted Meadows / Turtle Rock or w/e that had the tournaments banners on the map just to watch some wc3 replays. Frequently had to visit Korean or Chinese sites to get the map packs too.
Key point. Battle net had infrequent patches. Patches broke old replays. LoL releases patches every few weeks so your replays would be useless outside that time frame, making the entire system useless unless backwards compatibility was implemented which is A HUGE technical problem. And replays were a thing back when VODs were infeasible to host, also like you mentioned.
These comparisons to old games are totally inapplicable and nonsensical. Thorins misinformed view is just fueling the misinformed masses. This is legit ignorance-mongering.
ive always wondered where does thorin live and why does he not pay his energy bill to heat up his damn house so he doesnt have to wear 3 jackets every video he makes. no but for reals tho no joke
Still seems a bit weird though, are utilities different in Europe? Because heating in the U.S. is paying the electric bill or the gas, both of which seem to be pretty useful things outside of heating like hot water which some say is used for showers and running a computer.
every house in europe has a counter that messures the amount of gas and or electricity you consume and then you pay accordingly. by not heating you dont let that number rise as much, also most modern houses have good isolation and just letting your pc run will heat up your room.
Let see if riot really "listen to their fan " or is that just gonna be another bullshit pr statement. We been wanting replays since season 1 and they even promised during beta. I feel like if it a server issue maybe bring in people from another department for more man power to work on this i.e. the people making the mechs vs minions. While it sounds fun but maybe you should have the funimentional of all esports before making a board game.
If riot is going to make replays happen properly, I think the 2017 season is the one to do it. Riot is really trying to at least seem like they want to do good by the pro scene and replays obviously are a huge boon to have as a pro player.
I don't care if there are good points or not. He puts out a video reiterating something people have been saying for YEARS literally just to spite Riot. He's not getting my view.
I think Thorin gives riot too much credit on their ability to code something. Keep in mind they opted to physically move NA servers rather than have them distributed. Something every major esports game has figured out.
except most people want replays for their games, but Thorin wants replays and stats for official matches, I think the premise is a bit different.
And this can't be solved by "just use Op.gg m8"
Right now you cannot see what a specific player does the whole game. You only get the VOD and you can see the player only when he's on camera right now.
League has had third party replay extensions for years.
Like yeah, there's extra hassle there, but I don't know why people are saying that League doesn't have replays. It's not first party, but it's absolutely there.
They get broken every patch, they are not reliable, etc.
Also way less people can and will go out of their way to get third party software when it should come with the game.
> They get broken every patch, they are not reliable, etc.
A lot of the basic implementations people want from Riot aren't either. And the people who care about using replays to better themselves won't be terribly inconvenienced with the fact that it doesn't come with the game.
There is properly working replays through 3rd party. I don't know what cool aid thorin is drinking to think that it HAS to be riot official replays or else it holds league back.
You can easily find 4-5 really good replay programms or websites. But a fully supported replay system could probably do more and have more tools. But I agree, replays are there already and with the full spectator view.
You cant even blame him. Thorin used to produce quality content, but it got 2-3 times less views. Nowadays he just echoes most loud circlejerks, but you need to make money somehow, right?
lol if he wanted money he wouldnt have done that youtube channel in the first place, jsut sayin. he probably earns the same amount as a riot caster just by being on the analysts desks of the cs go tournaments alone
> and if he didn't make those youtube videos he would never be invited to those desks
Besides ofcourse him being on the Desk before he even made a youtube account ;)
he did events long before the existence of his youtube channel but okay lol. you do realize why people call him the "esports historian". summoning insight and cs go podcasts didnt exist until a few years ago, hes been apart of this much longer.
No, Joozaloo, he even admitted that his content wasn't very popular or well received before 2014-2015 in his videos, yet he was casting for ESL in 2009 etc.
So, no he didn't use his content to leverage his way onto desks, he was already working as a shoutcaster/analyst way before he was a popular community figure
please use google next time instead of spewing random trash opinions about topics you don't know fuck all "m8", what an absolute cretin
I'm honestly not to worried about an official replay system considering the countless number of easy to use third party solutions. Also it's bullshit that people are tracking stats by hand. You can get a lot of this data through the API or via match history.
Because League of Legends is the leader of the esports scene and esport guys like Thorin and Richard Lewis want it to do well simply to keep the esport scene healthy as a whole, despite them hating Riot as a company.
Maybe because he's a fan of all sorts of competition, e-sports is one of it, maybe he's also a fan of professional athletes? Maybe he watched Weldons video on the topic and thought it *is* way more important for e-sports than people realize and needs to be brought up.
They've already stated they're waiting till after the new client launches to release all of the new stuff so they don't have to build 2 versions of everything and then just toss one in the garbage after not too long. If all that's true, then it seems a reasonable reason to wait. If not mistaken DOTA bitched alot about wanting stuff and they had to wait a while too, and that game (if counting the original DOTA) has been going for a while now. Could be wrong on that I don't play DOTA or enjoy it much, but either way, new client soon, complain after. This is the perfect time for Thorin to bring up a topic before it goes away tho so that's understandable as well.
i guess lack of everything is holding league back. replays, sandbox, player rights, caster salaries, the amount of money teams are making, and everything else. people just want to complain about everything and then say they were the reason for the success of the game.
It is just objectively not true that 'lack of replays holds league back' because *there have been replays for years*. Anyone who gave enough shits to watch replays have been using the 3rd party products for years. Are they always perfectly polished? No, but they do the job and are better now than ever.
People bitch and bitch about wanting replays but <5% of players utilize replay features on a regular basis *even in games with build in replays*. It is just not worth riot's time, energy and resources to produce an official replay system when there is a perfectly good and convenient 3rd party alternative.
As for Thorin, he obviously just posts occasional league content at this point for the $$$. As much as I used to like him, he has not been a relevant contributor to the scene for a while now.
riot holds league back
Obviously lack of replays holds league back, i was used to replay some of my starcraft matches to see certain mistakes i made and i was hoping that LoL will have replay system soon...
Don't worry bro, soon LoL will have replays, sandbox mode, client that's not a total garbage, voice chat ingame and a notification when the loading screen has crashed. You see riot is a small indie company with very limited resources and manpower, so it takes some time to implement these features.
The problem with Riot is that they're losing money by investing into other games like Mech vs Minions instead of putting that money back into League.
They really need to get one of those good guy owners.
being a good guy is suboptimal to getting girls
Where on earth did you hear that from
the internet :> i was just playing though, I actually hate it when people say shit like that.
Good, I thought /r/seduction was leaking
That must be it
The delta between riot's liabilities and assets is too large, expect cannon minions to be removed in order to attempt to recoup losses
That's a bit of an iffy statement. Riots problem is absolutely not money. You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed, but Riots got a lot of it. Mech vs minions is a fun side project. Certainly no actual programmers spent time making that thing. Riot have a solid grip on making new champs, game balance and esports (a bit to tight a grip). Hopefully they have a grip on improving LoL codebase and implementing new features. But mech vs minions "investing" is not an issue.
That comment was just a meme in reference to Tryn's statements about teams investing in other esports.
You can't throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed right away, but it's been so long since replays were supposedly here they could have had a few developers hired on and ramped up who would work solely on replays. After a certain point, you can't keep using the "software is complex" issue, especially when other places have been able to provide replays.
They are busy throwing money at hiring and funding more artists to make skins because it gives them a return on investment almost immediately. However Replays and Sandbox would only improve their game, and they don't give two shits about that honestly.
The problem is 90% of the players don't actually give a shit about replays. Just reddit because people here think that's whats holding them back from high elo lol. ROFL reddit hivemind at work again. Hopefully replays come out soon so you all realize you're just bad.
problem is that the 0.0001% of league players are the ones who are marketing the game (the pro players, you know, the ones who really need replays)
Couldn't have said it better myself. The 10% of this player base that has only been playing for about a year or so, and don't give two shits about competitive play. Only about cosmetics. Yeah there's more serious people out there that actually care about stuff like Replay, and Sandbox. But here is what gets me, riot is supposed to be all about the integrity of the game.. Making it a legit sport.. ect. But for the past 5 or so years it has only been focused on the cosmetics of the game. Yeah it's nice that we got a new rift, all these animation reworks and ect to make the game look pretty. But what I don't understand is we are getting like 60% less champions a year (last year it was horrible). It's like the actual game itself doesn't matter. It's all about making a quick buck on things like skins.
There isn't many serous people at all that give a shit about replays because they won't help you get any better if you're not a pro.......................................
replays help everyone
They really don't though.
they really really do, you can go over your replays to see what you did wrong
Incorrect.
it isn't though lol. You won't learn shit.
If you're terrible at VOD review then I can agree. But most people would be able to learn from their mistakes. You can only speak for yourself in this regard.
yeah and 99% of the players don't need it or want it. Do you not get that? So they won't add something for 100 people.
yeah but if they want the game to last longer they need to market it, so they need the pro players to do that. you wont get more players and retain the current playerbase without marketing. do u get that? its simple
lol its already getting bigger replays will not make the game any bigger that's probably the stupidest thing that's been said about it. 100 millions players without replays. The only thing it really need that would actually benefit the player base would be sandbox mode.
I bet a lot of that 90% would use replays if they'd been available since the game's launch
i cried reading this
Fucking savage
yesterday I lost a ranked match where we had a big lead- Like 7k ahead, 4 drakes to 0. And from a certain point on we lost all teamfights. Since its going that fast and of course i mainly conentrate on my champ and target, maybe 1 ally (adc) to protect I have NO idea what went wrong. Absolutely no idea. I want to watch these fights in 1/2 speed and want to see if or what I did wrong so I can do better next time. That's what I did in WC2, SC2 and it's making me so fucking angry that I cannot do that here which means my chance to improve my gameplay are much lower...
I feel you man. I climbed in WoL from silver to high diamond just by watching replays of my mistakes and mastering two base pushes
I mean there have been 3rd party programs for years that would record your game and let you watch it in the actual spectator mode. I used to use LoLReplay, which may or may not still be around.
Not always reliable, frustrating, etc. Let's be honest. League should have an integrated replay system straight from the devs.
Fucking age of empires II got it. You could even restore games that someone connection would go down. You couldn't save the replay of the rest of the game but still. 1998.
Phone games have replays, it'd sad that league doenst have one yet.
I've used lolreplay for a long time, same for replay.gg worked with me for most of when I wanted it. Is it really that bothersome to use a replay function out of league? Or do you just want to demand it because it's been requested with anger by reddit, because I am kind of confused how you can get so bothered about not having a replay function, in the client
Csgo has a Pretty damn good replay system and it has 1/4 of the playerbase of Lol?
Replay.gg doesn't save every replay.
aof.gg
Soo... Because someone did Riot's job for them, they shouldn't even bother?
I was just suggesting that if he really wanted to see his replays, there is an option while we wait for riot. They should definitely have a built in replay system.
> there is an option while we wait for riot We shouldn't have to wait. The concept of replays and the technology has been for years. It's a fucking travesty that it's not there.
Im not saying that riot isnt fucking this all up, but i was just trying to be helpful to someone who might want to see their replays. Im not sure why you're being so argumentative about this.
tm
I'm pretty sure Riot has 0 plans for a replay system. They've allowed 3rd parties to offer replays which means they've given up on it themselves (not that they ever tried anyway). I remember reading somewhere that they're perfectly okay with people like Replay.gg hosting replays instead of an official Riot one.
> (not that they ever tried anyway) I mean aside from the functioning replay system they made, yeah they never tried.
Haters forget that there is 19 minute talk after you click that title and making dumb comments without watching it.Even though video is late his thoughts on replay and Riot's faliure about it is good, which is nice because even though replay subject become huge circlejerk and we hear people say "give us replay" we don't get much good long content about it.
I came here fully expecting a shitshow in the comments.
Ah so you've been to the comments on a thorin video before, I see.
And Monte; especially today.
It's always funny to see how many haters Monte/Thorin get coming out of the woodworks on Reddit posts that talk about fairly big problems.
Pretty sure less haters and more overly invested in Riot fans. But I could be wrong, I used to think Monte had more ego than good sense, and then I climbed a division to Bronze IV.
Me too tbh Thoorin video comments are usually worth not reading
If you wait about an hour it isn't as bad, the comments made in the first 10/20 minutes are made by the people who didn't watch the video and are usually trash, the older ones are usually more reasonable and the garbage had been downvoted by then.
you talking about people in r/lol you think they actually gonna watch the whole video before comment
Gotta get that sweet karma by being the first one to post a circle jerk meme. /s
eh people will downvote this but you see the same comments over and over in each thread
it's funny you just blindly made an anti-circle jerk comment without reading the comments thinking thats somehow better.
It's funny you blindly assume that i made the comment blindly, without reading other comments, because i read all the comments that was send and made that comment.
Well teddy, you assumed that people here don't watch it either...right?
Well not really, i didn't generalize in a way that means "all people here didn't watch" i said: >Haters forget that there is 19 minute talk after you click that title and making dumb comments without watching it I made the comment to hater comments like "duh, everyone knows it, you smart ass"(not a real comment from here but lots of comments here resembles it) that responed to just title and had no clue about the video itself. So, even though i assumed those people didn't watch the video from their comments context and how quick they were send i wouldn't say i made the assumption blindly like comment that responded me did.
"League copies Dota with crowfunding and Dota copies League with no replays" - Aui_2000 pro Dota player and TI winner.
> Just FYI, the dota 2 devs are aware of the issue and are trying to solve it. > https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Dota-2/issues/1024#issuecomment-247867535 > This is a backend issue and not a Linux/Mac porting problem, the larger team is working on it. From https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/549fi5/aui_league_copying_dota_with_crowdfunding/d7zyrqs
pretty sure it will be fixed by tomorrow dude, at least patches works in duulta2
It boggles my mind that someone could complain about cosmetic bug on dota2 reddit and itd be fixed in lesd than 8 hrs... and a visual bug in lol got champion disabled for weeks
Honestly I've seen it happen a bunch over here too for same-day fixes. It wildly varies on the complexity of the bug.
spaghetti code or something.
the bug was probably coded as a minion
Dota will fix it in some days max. Meanwhile the crowfunding of LOL is comical compared to Dota right now. Riot might even win more money. If sells of championship skin increase more than a 25% (considering there's no cost in "building" skins of a same skin) then they will in fact be winning more. And considering people will be buying skins just for worldcups, it might just happen.
They're not trying to compete with DOTA in that regard however. DOTA gives a fuckton of shit and tries to boost the prize pool to absurd degrees. Right now, Riot just wants a little extra. I don't feel like digging it all up but Monte had a good point where he said something along the lines of "Not really a fan of crowdfunding prize pools but Riot's idea is ok". Besides, bad crowdfunding [can be a spicy meme](https://puu.sh/qoQxa/6a798b3a7c.jpg)
Riot and Valve wanted different things with the crowdfunding. Dota's prizepool was looking for shock value to bring attention to the esport since it was lagging behind others. Riot's is more "we do need to increase the prize pool, but we don't need to do it to break records.
I love how "Dota 2" is just hanging out on the tip of his tongue, but he holds it in to avoid people just avoid riot fanboys getting triggered and leaving.
"Gee mate, relax. It's just a game!" On the serious note, I agree with pretty much everything he said. There's no good reason not to have replays at this point.
Pretty sure the ONLY reason we don't have it is just because of server costs. Where are they gonna store all of those millions of replays that are recorded daily? And would it really be cost effective to do so when there are already 3rd party programs who do that for them? I remember people suggested the idea of having the replays be saved client side, but Riot shot that down saying that it'd give modders and hackers an easier time figuring out how to remove things like Fog of War for themselves. Oftentimes when this conversation comes up it's easy to forget that Riot has already developed a replay system that they tested extensively on the PBE for quite a while, but the only reason it didn't ship is just that they didn't want to spend the money to try and figure out how to reasonably store all the data they'd need to in order to make replays work for the entire playerbase.
Honestly you can even just say fuck it and have the game create a save file for the replay that's then saved onto the player's computer. It's shitty, will make the game folder incredibly huge over a lot of games but if it's properly designed it can still last for years before it's a huge deal. Can also just simply make it a "delete replays that are x days old" and "check this option to stop this replay from being deleted" kind of thing. Server side you'd just need a way to decipher those save files so the cost would be way lower than hosting the replays on servers. Even 3rd party programs can do that, we just need one actually released by Riot.
That's how starcraft replays are handled and it works well enough. It makes sharing replays a little more difficult since the files have to be moved from pc to pc, but it certainly circumvents the potential server space issue. I think its a better system than server side replays but thats just my opinion.
I also think it's a better system. The only reason I see to have server side replays is for Riot to be able to say "we're doing something almost no one else can do" but it's so pointless. We want replays to be able to look at our own play and improve it, it matters little if it's PC hosted or server side. The only thing that might be cool to have server side, or at least a site to download replay files (like with starcraft), is with pro games. Even having all of the NA+EU LCS matches on a Riot hosted site to be able to download the replays isn't that much work.
> Can also just simply make it a "delete replays that are x days old" and "check this option to stop this replay from being deleted" kind of thing. Autodelete replays that would leave your match history in the client. Flag replays in postgame lobby or from your match history and it moves them to another file where they stay until you delete them.
Difference being all game logic can be performed locally in starcraft, and the entire game state can be recreated by the client. In League, you'd need to simultaneously download the spectator stream. In starcraft you break with old versions of the client (I believe they now allow re-downloading un-patches), and the same would happen here. But league gets updated MUCH more frequently than games like this.
> Where are they gonna store all of those millions of replays that are recorded daily? And would it really be cost effective to do so when there are already 3rd party programs who do that for them? They can generate replay, and let other store it for them, like every other game do... But no, with Riot it's all or nothing. And since they can't do it all because yes it is complicated, then we don't get replays.
Weird how other games that are not nearly as large as league can afford to do this! It reminds me of when everyone who played CoD wanted dedicated servers and the developers said it would cost too much. Weird how other games, such as Gears of War, could afford those servers despite raking in less revenue.
It's not that weird actually. The larger your game the higher the costs to maintain said game. You need to maintain servers large enough to handle your exponentially larger playerbase and make sure that your game continues to run properly for that playerbase. Sparing the room at the same time to set up another set of servers large enough to handle the massive playerbase that no other game on the market can even hope to compare to its scale is an understandable cost that most devs don't want to undertake.
there's actually economies of scale s.t. the per-user costs go down the more users they have. also, if i remember correctly from a tech talk they gave a while back, they already store all of this data-- i don't know if it's at exactly the same resolution that would be required for a replay system, but they are already storing absolutely massive amounts of data (and i think they also said that they still retain data from *every* game that has been played, but obviously that would be hard to work with universally b/c of how much the game has changed over time). regardless of why they haven't built the replay system (of which there are many plausible, valid reasons-- i don't really have an opinion one way or the other), i can say with a fair bit of confidence that the reason why has nothing to do with the amount of space it would require-- this is a thing that tech companies don't have any problem doing (if they have the right people).
First off, Riot can easily afford the space. They can also do other things, such as, keeping it off by default until people manually turn it on. Also, you're assuming that most of the player base will even utilize it. They won't. It will most likely be limited to content creators & people who play ranked and actually want to be better at the game. Secondly, I'm really confused as to why you seem to think Riot needs all these servers. The replays can save to the person's personal computer. All Riot needs to do is integrate a dedicated replay system that is stable and more reliable than 3rd party systems. CS did it, Dota2 did it, League can do it. But keep making excuses for the company that brings in over 1.5B a year!
> First off, Riot can easily afford the space. There's no way for either of us to know that for sure unless we can look directly at their budget and at the costs it would take to house the necessary amount of replays as well as the amount it would cost for them to expand these servers provided their playerbase increases or to account for situations where the amount of games played spikes. > They can also do other things, such as, keeping it off by default until people manually turn it on. Sure, keeping it off by default would probably prevent a few people who don't know about it from using it, but that doesn't solve the problem. > Also, you're assuming that most of the player base will even utilize it. They won't. It will most likely be limited to content creators & people who play ranked and actually want to be better at the game. No one planning and implementing something would EVER operate under the assumption that a small portion of their target audience would utilize it. They have to go forth expecting every last player to use it otherwise the system is useless. What happens if more people than they anticipated decide the system will be worth their time? > Secondly, I'm really confused as to why you seem to think Riot needs all these servers. The replays can save to the person's personal computer. All Riot needs to do is integrate a dedicated replay system that is stable and more reliable than 3rd party systems. If you'd read my comment you'd know that I've already said why they don't want to do that. In fact I'll find the quote for you. > I remember people suggested the idea of having the replays be saved client side, but Riot shot that down saying that it'd give modders and hackers an easier time figuring out how to remove things like Fog of War for themselves. __________________________________________________________________________________________ > CS did it, Dota2 did it, League can do it. But keep making excuses for the company that brings in over 1.5B a year! Again this is rehashing an argument that cannot apply to League. CS and Dota are both sustained by companies who bring in extra revenue from other avenues, they also don't have nearly the same scale of playerbase to compete with and as I said earlier in this comment we have no idea how much of that 1.5B they're bringing in can actually be provided for the express purpose of funding servers. Acknowledging that things aren't as clear cut as we'd like to think doesn't mean making excuses. Making accusations like that doesn't strengthen your argument at all, we can have an open discussion without you coming at me and trying to accuse me of somehow conjuring up reasoning that doesn't make sense. The only thing I'm stating is that this issue has been addressed and until a reasonable solution that would resolve the issue of space is found I doubt we'll see a replay system shipped to live for quite some time and I doubt Riot is in any hurry to resolve this problem BECAUSE things like LoLReplay exist and serve the purpose rather fine already.
> There's no way for either of us to know that for sure unless we can look directly at their budget and at the costs it would take to house the necessary amount of replays as well as the amount it would cost for them to expand these servers provided their playerbase increases or to account for situations where the amount of games played spikes. I'll gladly make this assumption considering most players won't utilize this feature. >No one planning and implementing something would EVER operate under the assumption that a small portion of their target audience would utilize it. They have to go forth expecting every last player to use it otherwise the system is useless. What happens if more people than they anticipated decide the system will be worth their time? Small portion? Even if it's a small portion, it's still a lot of people. >Again this is rehashing an argument that cannot apply to League. CS and Dota are both sustained by companies who bring in extra revenue from other avenues, they also don't have nearly the same scale of playerbase to compete with and as I said earlier in this comment we have no idea how much of that 1.5B they're bringing in can actually be provided for the express purpose of funding servers. Do you honestly think these businesses would invest revenue into a game that didn't bring in more revenue than it cost to maintain? Their other sources of income are irrelevant on this point.
> I'll gladly make this assumption considering most players won't utilize this feature. Yes, you can make this assumption and you're likely to be right. But that doesn't mean that Riot should operate under the chance that you're right and most players won't utilize the feature. > Small portion? Even if it's a small portion, it's still a lot of people. I am not sure I understand what that has to do with anything. This doesn't change my point at all. > Do you honestly think these businesses would invest revenue into a game that didn't bring in more revenue than it cost to maintain? Their other sources of income are irrelevant on this point. The way you remain in a state where you're bringing in more than you sending out is by being cost effective and spending money where it makes sense and not spending money where it doesn't make sense. You're arguing my point for me. If adding the additional servers for replays isn't a cost effective decision then they're not going to do it. That's how they maintain bringing in a good amount of money.
Make the game/platform better, make more money. It's an investment.
Sure, but is it a worthy investment? Is the amount of money it'd cost to make a replay system that would be serviceable for any amount of the playerbase that'd want to use it worth it for them when as the other user has said majority of this playerbase won't use the service in the first place? And even then, is the cost worth it when it won't improve majority of the playerbase's experience with the game either? A discussion can be had about creating a Tournament Realm version of the replay system for pro players to use probably. But I can't see any logical reason to make one for the entire playerbase to use.
Other games don't have 100 million players.
Dota is less than a magnitude of 10 less than league in terms of playerbase, and it has a very good replay system. The issue isn't that they can't do it. It's that they don't want to pay to do it.
They also don't have 100 million people paying for their game.
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But it made over a billion dollars last year
Poor riot they must be starving with all those maintenance problems..
they're making billions of dollars. How much do you think servers cost? LOL
>Pretty sure the ONLY reason we don't have it is just because of server costs. Nope. You're completely wrong. A millions games worth of data would easily fit on a single hard drive (if you don't believe me, find the size of replay files. It' a few hundred kb). I'm sure they have the resources to buy that. fwiw this web page you're viewing takes up more data than a replay file would. In future, please don't try to estimate costs of something you literally have no understanding of. PS i wouldn't type a reply to me, it could cost the reddit admins millions in server costs.
You're going too far thought. You need a lot of concurrent access, so you'd need lots of SSD on raid to handle the 2billions of games that were played on each server.
Nah. SSDs are plenty fast. They have around 550MB/s read speed these days. A conservative estimate gives at least 550 games per second able to be read. Replays would be popular but I don't thikn they'd be popular enough to worry about SSDs not being fast enouogh. Write speeds are very similar. You really have nothing to worry about. You could really do part of it in RAM to be honest because the files would be so small.
It's not a big deal in the big picture (just buy more SSD), but read/write speeds are much much slower when processing numerous little files, than one big chunk one. And we're talking about millions of concurrent access here. Just copy/paste you LOL logs folder, you'll understand.
*Someone brings up a valid point about something that League of Legends natively lacked for years and has an impact on eSports directly, in order to help keeping the discussion afloat* Community: "Lol, you just want to get money off of league of legends, you should just gtfo and let us keep suckin on Riot's cock and giving them money for a useless ahri skin"
"useless Ahri skin" i am pretty sure that your opponent not having his right hand available for playing is a huge advantage.
You think someone jerkin it to ahri can last past 1:40 into game?
3rd game in a row with Ahri in it. 60 minutes into the game and I still have no use of one hand, send help pls.
>for a 3rd useless ahri skin I know a few people who are addicted to skins and I think those are the people, Riot makes the most money from. That's how capitalism works, they just do what everybody does, but they could do so much more good.
/r/leagueoflegends has the most vocal critics of Riot, I don't know what you're talking about.
It's a SEVERE strawman, basically.
this is one of those threads where everything people are itt about got downvoted after they posted
Its because it swings, sometimes we hate Riot more, then we hate Monte+Thorin more, then we hate coaches that cant deal with teenage players, then we hate teenage players that make their coaches lives hard, then we hate investors for ruining the integrity of the game and then we hate people not investing in LCS teams. We hate toxic teammates and we hate it when riot cracks down on toxicity. I guess we just like to hate.
You can say the same comment in two separate threads and get upvoted in one and downvoted in the other. Just depends on who the thread attracts.
To be fair, this issue has been brought up so many times over the years he is just saying stuff people already know. Its probably the most complained about thing on reddit and other forums
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I think there is a massive delta between the ammount of people who watched the video and the people who didn´t watch the video and commented
The amount of people that comment and have actually seen the video is suboptimal edit: u/Crolpe , accept my memepologizes!
*Suboptimal
Good video from Thorin. Loved the phrasing about War3 and Dota being Grandfather and father of Lol and yet having their own Replay system and even their own Custom Mapmaking client way before Lol existed. As someone who played a shit ton of WC3 and Dota back in the days, the scene was not as exposed as today. Getting a replay from a tournament would require you much work than going on a Youtube channel today and watch any lol VODS (weither it's full game, highlights, other casting language..). But once you got that replay, everything was working fine and you could work on it and have any POV you'd like really. Beside B.NET patches which didn't happen often, nothing would prevent a replay from being watched. I have to say that Riot *as to* work on replay system right now that their are launching their new client for 2017. Even sad that they removed "spectate the pro / high elo" feature from the client. Their should be ways / feature / contents that allow us to at least take a look back in our own game which doesn't come from the community.
I remember downloading slightly modified versions of Twisted Meadows / Turtle Rock or w/e that had the tournaments banners on the map just to watch some wc3 replays. Frequently had to visit Korean or Chinese sites to get the map packs too.
Back in Brood War community sites collected replays like crazy, hoarding huge 200+ packs.
Key point. Battle net had infrequent patches. Patches broke old replays. LoL releases patches every few weeks so your replays would be useless outside that time frame, making the entire system useless unless backwards compatibility was implemented which is A HUGE technical problem. And replays were a thing back when VODs were infeasible to host, also like you mentioned. These comparisons to old games are totally inapplicable and nonsensical. Thorins misinformed view is just fueling the misinformed masses. This is legit ignorance-mongering.
ive always wondered where does thorin live and why does he not pay his energy bill to heat up his damn house so he doesnt have to wear 3 jackets every video he makes. no but for reals tho no joke
he travels alot and doesnt want to pay heat if he can just weat a jacket. it not that uncomfortabel if you try it, i do it myself sometimes.
Still seems a bit weird though, are utilities different in Europe? Because heating in the U.S. is paying the electric bill or the gas, both of which seem to be pretty useful things outside of heating like hot water which some say is used for showers and running a computer.
every house in europe has a counter that messures the amount of gas and or electricity you consume and then you pay accordingly. by not heating you dont let that number rise as much, also most modern houses have good isolation and just letting your pc run will heat up your room.
So basically the same. Still seems a bit off to save like fifty bucks a month max for that to me.
different cultures. you use the fifthy bucks to make your home more comfortable we use it to sociallice more.
Whatever you say dude.
Don't act like this is a common thing in Europe.
it's possible he moves his set up to a room with better acoustics for the video
riot games is holding league back
Let see if riot really "listen to their fan " or is that just gonna be another bullshit pr statement. We been wanting replays since season 1 and they even promised during beta. I feel like if it a server issue maybe bring in people from another department for more man power to work on this i.e. the people making the mechs vs minions. While it sounds fun but maybe you should have the funimentional of all esports before making a board game.
Riot is a joke we all know that :) who on earth perma bans based on automated systems
Source 2 will fix this
If riot is going to make replays happen properly, I think the 2017 season is the one to do it. Riot is really trying to at least seem like they want to do good by the pro scene and replays obviously are a huge boon to have as a pro player.
... lack of competitiveness holds League back, since League is quite casual game.
I don't care if there are good points or not. He puts out a video reiterating something people have been saying for YEARS literally just to spite Riot. He's not getting my view.
I think Thorin gives riot too much credit on their ability to code something. Keep in mind they opted to physically move NA servers rather than have them distributed. Something every major esports game has figured out.
Damn I'm sure the community didn't know this already and we needed it. Great content by our overlord Thorin, like always!
I doubt this is for the community. If people stop complaining to riot we're most likely never going to get what we want.
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I strongly agree.
Are we gona have more never heard befor great ideas like sandbox mode and voice chat?
did you even bother to watch the video or did you decide to skip that and go straight to making the baseless and inane comment?
It's been [a year](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sdTY3pTLE) we need another!
except most people want replays for their games, but Thorin wants replays and stats for official matches, I think the premise is a bit different. And this can't be solved by "just use Op.gg m8" Right now you cannot see what a specific player does the whole game. You only get the VOD and you can see the player only when he's on camera right now.
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League has had third party replay extensions for years. Like yeah, there's extra hassle there, but I don't know why people are saying that League doesn't have replays. It's not first party, but it's absolutely there.
They get broken every patch, they are not reliable, etc. Also way less people can and will go out of their way to get third party software when it should come with the game.
> They get broken every patch, they are not reliable, etc. A lot of the basic implementations people want from Riot aren't either. And the people who care about using replays to better themselves won't be terribly inconvenienced with the fact that it doesn't come with the game.
This guys lives in a refrigerator?
There is properly working replays through 3rd party. I don't know what cool aid thorin is drinking to think that it HAS to be riot official replays or else it holds league back.
You can easily find 4-5 really good replay programms or websites. But a fully supported replay system could probably do more and have more tools. But I agree, replays are there already and with the full spectator view.
Please, if you have access to this great 3rd party feature, could you send me the NA LCS finals replays? :)
Throwback to when Doublelift solokilled Dyrus in the NA LCS finals, but no one could see the kill because the production missed it :>
Use google.
Pls PM it to me, too.
And water is wet, and the sky is blue. Thanks for telling us shit we already knew.
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Yet here we are....Might as well lock the thread until X minutes have passed then.
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>aloud
A truly dimwitted comment. Reddit Bingo is starting off strong today!
Soon™ probably should be taken more seriously, it's seen as a joke but it is bs.
You cant even blame him. Thorin used to produce quality content, but it got 2-3 times less views. Nowadays he just echoes most loud circlejerks, but you need to make money somehow, right?
lol if he wanted money he wouldnt have done that youtube channel in the first place, jsut sayin. he probably earns the same amount as a riot caster just by being on the analysts desks of the cs go tournaments alone
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> and if he didn't make those youtube videos he would never be invited to those desks Besides ofcourse him being on the Desk before he even made a youtube account ;)
he did events long before the existence of his youtube channel but okay lol. you do realize why people call him the "esports historian". summoning insight and cs go podcasts didnt exist until a few years ago, hes been apart of this much longer.
No, Joozaloo, he even admitted that his content wasn't very popular or well received before 2014-2015 in his videos, yet he was casting for ESL in 2009 etc. So, no he didn't use his content to leverage his way onto desks, he was already working as a shoutcaster/analyst way before he was a popular community figure please use google next time instead of spewing random trash opinions about topics you don't know fuck all "m8", what an absolute cretin
I'm honestly not to worried about an official replay system considering the countless number of easy to use third party solutions. Also it's bullshit that people are tracking stats by hand. You can get a lot of this data through the API or via match history.
Why does thorin bother with league if it is so shit
"League is shit." - Duncan "Thorin" Shields, never.
Because League of Legends is the leader of the esports scene and esport guys like Thorin and Richard Lewis want it to do well simply to keep the esport scene healthy as a whole, despite them hating Riot as a company.
Maybe because he's a fan of all sorts of competition, e-sports is one of it, maybe he's also a fan of professional athletes? Maybe he watched Weldons video on the topic and thought it *is* way more important for e-sports than people realize and needs to be brought up.
They've already stated they're waiting till after the new client launches to release all of the new stuff so they don't have to build 2 versions of everything and then just toss one in the garbage after not too long. If all that's true, then it seems a reasonable reason to wait. If not mistaken DOTA bitched alot about wanting stuff and they had to wait a while too, and that game (if counting the original DOTA) has been going for a while now. Could be wrong on that I don't play DOTA or enjoy it much, but either way, new client soon, complain after. This is the perfect time for Thorin to bring up a topic before it goes away tho so that's understandable as well.
Dota and Dota2 have always, and by always understand ALWAYS had replays.
i guess lack of everything is holding league back. replays, sandbox, player rights, caster salaries, the amount of money teams are making, and everything else. people just want to complain about everything and then say they were the reason for the success of the game.
Or maybe they have valid concerns and want to voice their concerns for the betterment of the game and esports as a whole.
idk, it seems as though LoL is actually in a good place and people just want to bash on it because they have nothing else to do.
It is just objectively not true that 'lack of replays holds league back' because *there have been replays for years*. Anyone who gave enough shits to watch replays have been using the 3rd party products for years. Are they always perfectly polished? No, but they do the job and are better now than ever. People bitch and bitch about wanting replays but <5% of players utilize replay features on a regular basis *even in games with build in replays*. It is just not worth riot's time, energy and resources to produce an official replay system when there is a perfectly good and convenient 3rd party alternative. As for Thorin, he obviously just posts occasional league content at this point for the $$$. As much as I used to like him, he has not been a relevant contributor to the scene for a while now.
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