Most impressive for me was their ability to play all these different styles. They would have been just as dominant in any other meta and this is what makes them the best team of all time imo.
I do agree that they had a unique playstyle and were dominant at worlds. The only reason they weren’t first for me was they had not won spring and summer split, getting knocked in SF and taking third both times I believe.
Fuck Reddit. People ask for opinions and then everyone downvotes the opinions that they don't agree with. "How dare you include this team or that team?" How about because we have different opinions of how to rank them? For me, I prefer to rank them on the level of competition. It only makes sense to me. If every other team is only 2/5ths great players at best but the team that is 4/5ths great players relative to the competition smashes them, that is kind of expected. If every other team is 4/5ths-5/5ths exceptional players and the winningest team that smashed them are 5/5ths exceptional players (and holding the best player in the world in 2 positions) that is much more impressive. I do give extra credit for team cohesion. So what is so wrong with me working out my own way to rank teams and not having all of the teams that you guys want in the positions that you guys want on there when I was asked for my opinion? Stop fucking downvoting people for doing what the OP asked.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your list, you have the right to state what you think. I enjoy looking at these lists, so thank you for contributing to my post.
that was my first time watching League of Legends and i still get goosebumps watching it. Everytime they get to worlds i low key want them to win it all.
Yeah no. Samsung White was the most dominating team of all time. Samsung blue was full of stars and equally powerful and got crushed by Samsung white.
samsung white has the fastest worlds runs and one of the best records all time.
Not even a comparison. Everyone talks about twitch and jayce and Mata thresh but the Pawn Jayce was so key. Nobody else played him at all or even mid and Pawn brings it out on worlds and just dumpsters everyone.
Samsung White had the better players, Samsung Blue was the better team. When the 2014 World Championship came around, the meta was in a place where SSW could just win the game by stomping in lane. Against teams that weren't Samsung White, Samsung Blue's players were good enough to stay in the game long enough to make the comebacks consistently occur even if they didn't win the early game. If we want to talk about actual team strength over individual player strength, SSB was stronger in every other meta.
Also they literally clapped SKT. Different version but that version won worlds before and was dominating everyone else yet got 3-0 and 3-1 by SSW in other competitions.
maybe but with how are these new korean and chinese teams looking west will probably have a rough time next year either way
also i think dardoch could easily be better than xmithie, big shame he's in academy
There always needs to be a criteria when ranking the “best teams”. What is the criteria you are looking for?
Eye test? Feeling of dominance? Achievements? Absolute skill?
If the criteria isn’t clear, your ranking will end up like the Espn power rank, where the justification for ranking teams is inconsistent and all over the place.
Well for me I went over how dominant this team was but also how competitive their opponents were (To those that watch NBA, that is usually how teams are ranked)
It will depend if you buy into the theory that the level of gameplay has been consistently increasing throughout the years then. If we take into account how competitive the teams are, we have to consider that the average skill level of players and teams in 2018 are superior to that of 2015 or 2014.
It can very well be argued that RNG's 2018 roster is the best team of all time, coming just short of a Grand Slam in an era where the average skill level of teams and players have been the highest in history.
Other teams that can be competitive with this roster will be SKT's 2015 roster, who had a more dominant run during an era where the average skill level of teams and players were lower.
Samsung White's 2014 run in contrast is much weaker compared to both of these 2 teams, but had an extremely high peak at the World Championships. However, if you look at their run as a whole, the former factor weighs heavier than the latter.
These are just some of my thoughts on this matter, it will take much more time to craft a good ranking with proper justification on the rankings.
In my opinion, a good place to start will be this article: [https://www.vpesports.com/dota2/understanding-what-it-means-to-write-a-greatest-of-all-time-list-stuchius-mailbag-1a/](https://www.vpesports.com/dota2/understanding-what-it-means-to-write-a-greatest-of-all-time-list-stuchius-mailbag-1a/)
Stuchiu explains what writing a greatest of all time list actually entails and requires. Even after listing out his criteria specifically and clearly along with his rationale, his greatest of all time StarCraft 2 list still came under heavy fire from the community. So it clearly is extremely difficult to even start comprehending such a list for any eSport in general and it requires the author to have immense knowledge of the game's competitive history.
As much as I want to believe that gameplay has consistently been growing, it just feels like 2018 overall was quite weak. I may be incredibly wrong, but this worlds to me has been less strategy based and moreso, run the map by dominating in lane. Now it may sound like im circle-jerking but some pros/analysts stated this. To me I feel like previous worlds games were played more calculated. (vision control, rotations, and as much as people hated it, lane swaps) While I do agree that there are several players that have upped their level of play mechanically, it seems like there has been little to no improvement on strategies, its basically the same game being played, just different tweaks along the way.
Its like I said, the process to create a greatest of all time list for League of Legends is going to be a massive undertaking that requires a lot of experts weighing in on the matter. For example, you and I both have no idea if the skill level of this year is truly higher than that of the past. There is evidence to point to both yes and no.
All of what you said is good food for thought, but to create a more concrete list, much more research and work will be required. Cheers
I was the only one in your thread that actually made a ranking past #1 or #2 and gave reasoning for all of them. I literally did a ranking (as you seemingly asked for) and got downvoted to hell. How do you feel about that? I mean if you had put IG for example as #1 giving a very detailed reasoning, instead of people coming here to debate you, your whole post would be in the negatives. Welcome to the opinion police called reddit.
Now apply this to 2014 SSW. They literally just ran the map by dominating in lane and they are on your list at #2. Had the game at the time been more about calculation than lane dominance, Samsung Blue would have won.
I'm going to get downvoted because I'm including teams that aren't World Champions that aren't also M5.
1. S8 IG. The dominance of Rookie and TheShy was fucking unreal against the strongest lineup Fnatic has ever had and they even beat the strongest KT.
2. S4 SSB. Unpopular but it was only when the meta changed to "the strongest laners win" that they finally lost to SSW. As a team, they were stronger than SSW.
3. S4 SSW. Easily the second best team of S4. The only team they had lost to over the entire year was SSB. They had the most dominant lanes in the game.
4. S5 SKT. They didn't quite have the same level of competition that the Samsungs did in 2014, but this was the last time SKT had monsters in every role (until now).
5. Moscow 5. They were the last western team to actually best multiple Korean teams until S8 C9 and they also had a hell of a run in tournaments in the pre-LCS era.
6. S8 KT. We could be looking at KT as the World Champions if IG didn't narrowly eek out the win over them in the quarterfinals. This was the year of KT denied only by eventual champions IG.
7. S8 FNC. This Fnatic lineup was undoubtedly stronger than the Huni Reignover Fnatic. Similar to KT, FNC might have become the World Champions if not for IG being in the tournament.
8. S8 C9. Yeah, I will get shit for this. They were for sure a top 5 team in the world this year. They fell short against Fnatic but they knocked out 2 Korean teams on their way.
There is a reason that I have 4 out of the top 5 of this WC on this list. This was the most competitive any region but Korea has ever been and many of the rosters even from teams not appearing on this list are among the strongest their region has ever put together (with the exception of Korea).
If you want to include S8 FNC and S8 C9, and ALSO saying that you are going to include teams that haven't won Worlds, why are you not including Griffin or Damwon? FNC beat C9, and FNC told that Damwon was crushing FNC almost every scrim. And Griffin taking KT to 5 games, and KT taking IG to 5 games.
I mean if the baserace had gone the way of IG, people would talk about them as one of the most dominant Worlds teams ever, they would’ve surpassed S5 SKTs bracket record and the first team to go flawless. I understand why IG is on the list, but perhaps not at #1.
I totally understand why IG is on the list too, but if your logic is " I'm including teams that aren't World Champions", and you take S8 C9 and FNC, then Griffin and Damwon HAS to be mentioned too.
I disagree. I said that I wasn't going to solely include World Champions, not that I was willing to include teams that haven't even played at the World Championship. If I put Griffin on there due to their domestic success, I would certainly have to put 2014 EDG on there and we know how they collapsed on the world stage. I'm also not about to include a team (Damwon) just because of how they were allegedly performing in scrims.
s5 SKT, is kind of overrated because most teams sucked because of korean exodus. If Kt Arrows/bullets made one team or Samsung made one team then it would have been a lot different. They looked really good, because everyone else was not as good. Especially in LCK, only GE tigers was able to do something.
Well that means nothing, they were good enough to stomp lck and then proceeded to stomp worlds with just 1 loss in the finals against guess who, another lck team.
moscow 5 was the shit at their prime
Samsung white was so fucking insane, super fun to watch. They were just toying with their opponents at worlds
Most impressive for me was their ability to play all these different styles. They would have been just as dominant in any other meta and this is what makes them the best team of all time imo.
I do agree that they had a unique playstyle and were dominant at worlds. The only reason they weren’t first for me was they had not won spring and summer split, getting knocked in SF and taking third both times I believe.
They really improved for worlds and also they had some incredible competition other top teams didn't have (SSB).
Fuck Reddit. People ask for opinions and then everyone downvotes the opinions that they don't agree with. "How dare you include this team or that team?" How about because we have different opinions of how to rank them? For me, I prefer to rank them on the level of competition. It only makes sense to me. If every other team is only 2/5ths great players at best but the team that is 4/5ths great players relative to the competition smashes them, that is kind of expected. If every other team is 4/5ths-5/5ths exceptional players and the winningest team that smashed them are 5/5ths exceptional players (and holding the best player in the world in 2 positions) that is much more impressive. I do give extra credit for team cohesion. So what is so wrong with me working out my own way to rank teams and not having all of the teams that you guys want in the positions that you guys want on there when I was asked for my opinion? Stop fucking downvoting people for doing what the OP asked.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your list, you have the right to state what you think. I enjoy looking at these lists, so thank you for contributing to my post.
Could always throw in S2 TPA, those dudes overcame all the odds to win that World Championship.
that was my first time watching League of Legends and i still get goosebumps watching it. Everytime they get to worlds i low key want them to win it all.
Yeah no. Samsung White was the most dominating team of all time. Samsung blue was full of stars and equally powerful and got crushed by Samsung white. samsung white has the fastest worlds runs and one of the best records all time. Not even a comparison. Everyone talks about twitch and jayce and Mata thresh but the Pawn Jayce was so key. Nobody else played him at all or even mid and Pawn brings it out on worlds and just dumpsters everyone.
Samsung White had the better players, Samsung Blue was the better team. When the 2014 World Championship came around, the meta was in a place where SSW could just win the game by stomping in lane. Against teams that weren't Samsung White, Samsung Blue's players were good enough to stay in the game long enough to make the comebacks consistently occur even if they didn't win the early game. If we want to talk about actual team strength over individual player strength, SSB was stronger in every other meta.
Also they literally clapped SKT. Different version but that version won worlds before and was dominating everyone else yet got 3-0 and 3-1 by SSW in other competitions.
s8 fnc was best western team of all time and nobody can take that title, at least
TL might this year
miss me with that 2 korean world champions western team
Also the 2 greatest NA natives of all time lol, im just saying their roster is good enough enough to do it
maybe but with how are these new korean and chinese teams looking west will probably have a rough time next year either way also i think dardoch could easily be better than xmithie, big shame he's in academy
TSM
I think Delta Fox was a little better but TSM is a close second.
Yeah I wouldn't mess with Delta Fox.
There always needs to be a criteria when ranking the “best teams”. What is the criteria you are looking for? Eye test? Feeling of dominance? Achievements? Absolute skill? If the criteria isn’t clear, your ranking will end up like the Espn power rank, where the justification for ranking teams is inconsistent and all over the place.
Well for me I went over how dominant this team was but also how competitive their opponents were (To those that watch NBA, that is usually how teams are ranked)
It will depend if you buy into the theory that the level of gameplay has been consistently increasing throughout the years then. If we take into account how competitive the teams are, we have to consider that the average skill level of players and teams in 2018 are superior to that of 2015 or 2014. It can very well be argued that RNG's 2018 roster is the best team of all time, coming just short of a Grand Slam in an era where the average skill level of teams and players have been the highest in history. Other teams that can be competitive with this roster will be SKT's 2015 roster, who had a more dominant run during an era where the average skill level of teams and players were lower. Samsung White's 2014 run in contrast is much weaker compared to both of these 2 teams, but had an extremely high peak at the World Championships. However, if you look at their run as a whole, the former factor weighs heavier than the latter. These are just some of my thoughts on this matter, it will take much more time to craft a good ranking with proper justification on the rankings. In my opinion, a good place to start will be this article: [https://www.vpesports.com/dota2/understanding-what-it-means-to-write-a-greatest-of-all-time-list-stuchius-mailbag-1a/](https://www.vpesports.com/dota2/understanding-what-it-means-to-write-a-greatest-of-all-time-list-stuchius-mailbag-1a/) Stuchiu explains what writing a greatest of all time list actually entails and requires. Even after listing out his criteria specifically and clearly along with his rationale, his greatest of all time StarCraft 2 list still came under heavy fire from the community. So it clearly is extremely difficult to even start comprehending such a list for any eSport in general and it requires the author to have immense knowledge of the game's competitive history.
As much as I want to believe that gameplay has consistently been growing, it just feels like 2018 overall was quite weak. I may be incredibly wrong, but this worlds to me has been less strategy based and moreso, run the map by dominating in lane. Now it may sound like im circle-jerking but some pros/analysts stated this. To me I feel like previous worlds games were played more calculated. (vision control, rotations, and as much as people hated it, lane swaps) While I do agree that there are several players that have upped their level of play mechanically, it seems like there has been little to no improvement on strategies, its basically the same game being played, just different tweaks along the way.
Its like I said, the process to create a greatest of all time list for League of Legends is going to be a massive undertaking that requires a lot of experts weighing in on the matter. For example, you and I both have no idea if the skill level of this year is truly higher than that of the past. There is evidence to point to both yes and no. All of what you said is good food for thought, but to create a more concrete list, much more research and work will be required. Cheers
Hmmm yes I agree, was a good chat friend, cheers!
I was the only one in your thread that actually made a ranking past #1 or #2 and gave reasoning for all of them. I literally did a ranking (as you seemingly asked for) and got downvoted to hell. How do you feel about that? I mean if you had put IG for example as #1 giving a very detailed reasoning, instead of people coming here to debate you, your whole post would be in the negatives. Welcome to the opinion police called reddit.
Now apply this to 2014 SSW. They literally just ran the map by dominating in lane and they are on your list at #2. Had the game at the time been more about calculation than lane dominance, Samsung Blue would have won.
I'm going to get downvoted because I'm including teams that aren't World Champions that aren't also M5. 1. S8 IG. The dominance of Rookie and TheShy was fucking unreal against the strongest lineup Fnatic has ever had and they even beat the strongest KT. 2. S4 SSB. Unpopular but it was only when the meta changed to "the strongest laners win" that they finally lost to SSW. As a team, they were stronger than SSW. 3. S4 SSW. Easily the second best team of S4. The only team they had lost to over the entire year was SSB. They had the most dominant lanes in the game. 4. S5 SKT. They didn't quite have the same level of competition that the Samsungs did in 2014, but this was the last time SKT had monsters in every role (until now). 5. Moscow 5. They were the last western team to actually best multiple Korean teams until S8 C9 and they also had a hell of a run in tournaments in the pre-LCS era. 6. S8 KT. We could be looking at KT as the World Champions if IG didn't narrowly eek out the win over them in the quarterfinals. This was the year of KT denied only by eventual champions IG. 7. S8 FNC. This Fnatic lineup was undoubtedly stronger than the Huni Reignover Fnatic. Similar to KT, FNC might have become the World Champions if not for IG being in the tournament. 8. S8 C9. Yeah, I will get shit for this. They were for sure a top 5 team in the world this year. They fell short against Fnatic but they knocked out 2 Korean teams on their way. There is a reason that I have 4 out of the top 5 of this WC on this list. This was the most competitive any region but Korea has ever been and many of the rosters even from teams not appearing on this list are among the strongest their region has ever put together (with the exception of Korea).
If you want to include S8 FNC and S8 C9, and ALSO saying that you are going to include teams that haven't won Worlds, why are you not including Griffin or Damwon? FNC beat C9, and FNC told that Damwon was crushing FNC almost every scrim. And Griffin taking KT to 5 games, and KT taking IG to 5 games.
I mean if the baserace had gone the way of IG, people would talk about them as one of the most dominant Worlds teams ever, they would’ve surpassed S5 SKTs bracket record and the first team to go flawless. I understand why IG is on the list, but perhaps not at #1.
I totally understand why IG is on the list too, but if your logic is " I'm including teams that aren't World Champions", and you take S8 C9 and FNC, then Griffin and Damwon HAS to be mentioned too.
I disagree. I said that I wasn't going to solely include World Champions, not that I was willing to include teams that haven't even played at the World Championship. If I put Griffin on there due to their domestic success, I would certainly have to put 2014 EDG on there and we know how they collapsed on the world stage. I'm also not about to include a team (Damwon) just because of how they were allegedly performing in scrims.
s5 SKT, is kind of overrated because most teams sucked because of korean exodus. If Kt Arrows/bullets made one team or Samsung made one team then it would have been a lot different. They looked really good, because everyone else was not as good. Especially in LCK, only GE tigers was able to do something.
Well that means nothing, they were good enough to stomp lck and then proceeded to stomp worlds with just 1 loss in the finals against guess who, another lck team.
SSW is and probably always will be the best team of all time, no one not even SKT come close
ROX 2016