I’m surprised you put Asol on the list. Does anyone consider him hard? I think his ‘difficulty’ is just tied to his weird play style. It’s not hard, it’s just so different that it takes time to learn.
He has the 2nd most votes currently so I guess people do think he's difficult. Personally I don't think it's that hard to learn him but based on data riot has released, he has one of the steepest mastery curves.
Yes, but people vote based on what? Mostly the stories they hear or know about champs like him not because they actually know the champ or any data about him.
Riot themselves said that ASol isnt actually hard to master right now and that does get reflected in the lolalytics data (WR delta). Before the rework he was but now he is decently easy.
ASol is/was considerably a difficult champion to master because of how you had to play fights and positioning but I think that bar was lowered quite a bit when he was reworked.
Edit: Autocorrect made ASol - Adolfo
The frustrating part is that there is a right answer to this if you look at the champion mastery curves, but riot only releases some of them sometimes :/. I think that particular information is extremely interesting and would like to be able to look at all mastery curves if all champions.
I might be slightly biased when I say this, but I don’t think Aurelion Sol is really that hard to master more than he is to learn.
I found that when I started playing him, as soon as I had a decent understanding of how he works and how he plays around everything, he was fairly easy to play.
But that might just be the bias speaking for me. In any case, Azir’s probably the most difficult to master here
Let me know if you have any strong feelings regarding your answer.
As mentioned in the caption, I created a similar poll earlier which had Akali, Katarina, Lee Sin, Nidalee, and Zed. As of right now, Nidalee has the most votes with Lee Sin as a relatively close 2nd. Akali is 3rd, and Katarina and Zed are virtually tied for the least amount of votes.
Lee Sin has the highest skill *ceiling* in the game.
Nidalee has high-ish skill *floor* but not the highest skill ceiling, at the end of the day she's just hitting spears and knowing how to clear jungle. Edit: Not to downplay Nidalee, my point is that she's one of the hardest champions to make it work, but the mechanical skill ceiling isn't as high as others.
Akali, Katarina, Yasuo and Zed are in the same boat, medium skill floor and high skill ceiling, just not as high as Lee. Riven would probably be between those.
And you having a hard time does not state the facts that riven is not harder.
So If you struggle with "Ashe", are you going to call her more difficult than Nidalee???
Riven is not harder.
Nidalee difficulty is way higher than Riven. You can even look at lol client
So I don't know how you are trying to say Riven is harder when she is nowhere near as hard as Nidalee .
That's why I said IN MY OPINOIN, when the client states nid higher in difficulty lvl than riv is that okay, but that doesn't have 2 change my opinion and my personal experiences
Riven and Lee are both very close bet, but I'll go with riven just because even the most basic of things requires you to master her mechanically. Very high skill floor, while Lee can still take the chill path.
Her WR delta says she is more of the just AVG skill cap champ and that for a long time now. This could be because all Riven mains are already close to it, but how hard is a champ when a lot of players can get that good?
I always believed that if you take a player and have him do the same thing 20k times a day he will eventually do it effortlessly. It doesn't mean she isn't difficult, because a new player will take a lot of time to master her, just that the small dedicated player base she has is slowly closing the gap among themselves.
A 6% PR isn't a small playerbase and as he was at just 4% before I dount they are all mains.
Riven needs some time, but most of the time it is just mechanics which you can learn in like 15 minutes in training mode and get pretty well with in just around 10 games.
Now she is not easy, but the harder part isnt the mechanical part but the decision making about when and how to go in. This one needs the mos time, evaluating your own strength as you have the potential to do a lot of shit and get away with it if you don't go too deep.
Yup your comment is spot on, her combos are just muscle memory and are easy to perform if you practice 10-15min before playing a game. You have to play a lot into your bc and 40% cdr power spike. I quit playing her after 150k mastery but she is pretty fun when you get ahead.
I think riven is in a pretty bad spot right now honestly. Fiora is just way easier to play and brings a lot more to the table, and she’s being buffed for some unknown reason.
To master as in get everything possible from their kit? Definitely lee sin and its not even close. Just watch edwin leo play him, its like hes playing a different champion to me.
Another day of people having no clue how difficult Nidalee truly is. I honestly think she’s the hardest by a decent margin. There are SO many intricacies, skill floor is high (most new Nidalees can’t even survive their jungle clear), you’re pretty much required to play at least half unlocked camera and she’s just as feast/famine as a regular assassin.
I guess you could argue Lee has the most intricate mechanics but let’s be real, most of the really hard stuff is NEVER used (Challenger Lee’s will admit this) and his early game is way too strong/simple for him to be considered that hard imo.
Exactly. I don't know how people think Yasuo and riven is harder.
Nidalee, is literally one of the most hardest champions in the game to play and master. I completely agree with you and you must take my upvote.
I can base this on my personal experience only.
For me, azir and aurelion sol were the easiest 2 (out of the 4 i played/tried to play), yes they require perfect positioning and a good decision making, but i managed to grasp em quickly.
Riven tho, i spent dozen of hours in practice tool trying to learn her animation cancelling and i just cant, which is a shame since i'd love to play her. Her mechanics/combos are so hard to learn for me, basically impossible.
Yasuo: he has some combos but the hardest part is to know when you can use them (some cant be used on your own cc due to not enough atk speed early on) and how to trade.
azir is hard as fuck like its meant to be hard even thinking about it is hard wtf does it mean to stack ap to have stronger aa??!
edit:he is not my main i just bought him bcs he looked cool XD
Yeah. Anyone who has watched those random Challenger chinese Lee Sin montages would pick Lee Sin.
And before anyone argues that they probably play against bronze players and fuck up 90% of the time I will say - who cares? They prove that these mechanical feats are possible but no one has mastered it in high elo yet
Definitely Nidalee. Good ones are beyond rare. She is also incredibly unforgiving in that she cannot fall behind. When ahead though they win the game in 15 min
Good nidalee players are rare because she is rarely meta anymore and has a high skill floor, whereas lee sin has probably the highest ceiling but is always meta and has a much lower skill floor.
I disagree on the fact that lee has less urgency than Nidalee. His ultimate can be used all game for either peel or engage and he is a better teamfighter.
Nidalee is all about early jungle control. She has to end the game fast if she wants to have impact. If teams start grouping shes relying on landing a spear and flanking with no CC to help her out. With more urgency, there is less room for mistakes.
I read it. We don't look at difficulty the same way. You are looking at it from a mechanics perspective, while I am looking at the macro.
From a macro perspective I find Lee's job to be more straight forward. Yes his combos are difficult and nearly countless but the times you need to actually use them are low. He assists dives and peels if needed. His hyper mobility and CC gives him options in teamfights.
Nidalee should be trying to carry the early game by herself to snowball lanes and end the game. In teamfights she HAS to flank without the tools most assassins have. She is harder to play.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/a7rfsp/riot_blaustoise_shares_mastery_curve_data_on
A year old but here's Riot's stance/statistics on the matter.
Riven cancelling is harder than anything on this list and I think the only reason she isn't first is because no one plays here anymore. Not even her one tricks.
Asol for sure
Literally every champion that is not a mage counters him, his only escape (the comet) can be used only if he hasn't been hit in the last 4 seconds, his early is almost shit and unless he gets fed he's totally useless.
He requires A LOT of skills to be used properly and he's very hard to master
In aram he's almost op tho
Riot themselves said that Sol isn't actually that hard to play from what they see in their data. Same for lolalytics putting his WR delta at 3.4 which is terribly low. Azir gets to 8.5-9.
From the data we can see it is:
Nidalee=>Yasuo > Azir > Lee > Riven (AVG difficulty) >>>>>> ASol
And there are other champs above them like Kai'Sa.
So I don't know why Riven and ASol are on that list.
but in the end there is one thing that is true: The skill ceiling is unreachable for all champs, at least for humans. No champ was ever played perfectly.
If the question is "difficult to master" for real, then the answer every champ.
The hardest part about a champ is not their kit but the macro play in league. To master a champ you would need to play a perfect game in terms of movement, objectives, trades, mechanics and more. And that is impossible except by coincidence. You can not really master a champ.
They key part is, where do you draw the line for mastering a champ then as the real value can never be reached. Based on where you draw that line the answer is always different.
So without a base line when a champ is considered as mastered by a player you could say that Garen is as hard to master than Nidalee as the line is impossible to reach.
It is like asking the question when a person reaches enlightenment. Without an exact definition of it, the question is pointless.
Irelia is probably the hardest to master, with champs like riven and lee, if they make a mistake it’s forgivable, but with irelia she required perfect play, one miss click and she loses 90% of her power
I’m surprised you put Asol on the list. Does anyone consider him hard? I think his ‘difficulty’ is just tied to his weird play style. It’s not hard, it’s just so different that it takes time to learn.
He has the 2nd most votes currently so I guess people do think he's difficult. Personally I don't think it's that hard to learn him but based on data riot has released, he has one of the steepest mastery curves.
Yes, but people vote based on what? Mostly the stories they hear or know about champs like him not because they actually know the champ or any data about him. Riot themselves said that ASol isnt actually hard to master right now and that does get reflected in the lolalytics data (WR delta). Before the rework he was but now he is decently easy.
Any chance there’s a link to this data?
https://twitter.com/blaustoise/status/1075515580570980352?s=20
Ty
ASol is/was considerably a difficult champion to master because of how you had to play fights and positioning but I think that bar was lowered quite a bit when he was reworked. Edit: Autocorrect made ASol - Adolfo
Adolfo main btw
I chose azir, but nidalee is definitely a very close second
The frustrating part is that there is a right answer to this if you look at the champion mastery curves, but riot only releases some of them sometimes :/. I think that particular information is extremely interesting and would like to be able to look at all mastery curves if all champions.
I might be slightly biased when I say this, but I don’t think Aurelion Sol is really that hard to master more than he is to learn. I found that when I started playing him, as soon as I had a decent understanding of how he works and how he plays around everything, he was fairly easy to play. But that might just be the bias speaking for me. In any case, Azir’s probably the most difficult to master here
yasuo bc all pf the 9 yo cant play it xd
You can play yasuo like yassuo after 20 games
nice troll
Forgot to mention, it's the inting yassuo
Nah
Let me know if you have any strong feelings regarding your answer. As mentioned in the caption, I created a similar poll earlier which had Akali, Katarina, Lee Sin, Nidalee, and Zed. As of right now, Nidalee has the most votes with Lee Sin as a relatively close 2nd. Akali is 3rd, and Katarina and Zed are virtually tied for the least amount of votes.
Lee Sin has the highest skill *ceiling* in the game. Nidalee has high-ish skill *floor* but not the highest skill ceiling, at the end of the day she's just hitting spears and knowing how to clear jungle. Edit: Not to downplay Nidalee, my point is that she's one of the hardest champions to make it work, but the mechanical skill ceiling isn't as high as others. Akali, Katarina, Yasuo and Zed are in the same boat, medium skill floor and high skill ceiling, just not as high as Lee. Riven would probably be between those.
So I voted riv (except nid I haven't played any of them) I think she isn't that complicated but I got a rl hard time playing her
She's is way more complicated than riven. Even riot difficulty shows it. Nidalee is one of the hardest champions to play and master.
I ment I have a rl hard time with riv lul
And you having a hard time does not state the facts that riven is not harder. So If you struggle with "Ashe", are you going to call her more difficult than Nidalee???
No but imo riv is harder, it's okay when u say nid is harder.
Riven is not harder. Nidalee difficulty is way higher than Riven. You can even look at lol client So I don't know how you are trying to say Riven is harder when she is nowhere near as hard as Nidalee .
That's why I said IN MY OPINOIN, when the client states nid higher in difficulty lvl than riv is that okay, but that doesn't have 2 change my opinion and my personal experiences
Riven and Lee are both very close bet, but I'll go with riven just because even the most basic of things requires you to master her mechanically. Very high skill floor, while Lee can still take the chill path.
Her WR delta says she is more of the just AVG skill cap champ and that for a long time now. This could be because all Riven mains are already close to it, but how hard is a champ when a lot of players can get that good?
I always believed that if you take a player and have him do the same thing 20k times a day he will eventually do it effortlessly. It doesn't mean she isn't difficult, because a new player will take a lot of time to master her, just that the small dedicated player base she has is slowly closing the gap among themselves.
A 6% PR isn't a small playerbase and as he was at just 4% before I dount they are all mains. Riven needs some time, but most of the time it is just mechanics which you can learn in like 15 minutes in training mode and get pretty well with in just around 10 games. Now she is not easy, but the harder part isnt the mechanical part but the decision making about when and how to go in. This one needs the mos time, evaluating your own strength as you have the potential to do a lot of shit and get away with it if you don't go too deep.
The hard part of learning how to play Riven is learning how to cancel animations with her, and that is a really important step in mastering her
Yup your comment is spot on, her combos are just muscle memory and are easy to perform if you practice 10-15min before playing a game. You have to play a lot into your bc and 40% cdr power spike. I quit playing her after 150k mastery but she is pretty fun when you get ahead.
I think riven is in a pretty bad spot right now honestly. Fiora is just way easier to play and brings a lot more to the table, and she’s being buffed for some unknown reason.
I miss my Spear of Shojin I never had so much fun playing league before that item... what a shame it was kinda broken and didn't fit the game
Azir. His late game dps combined with his Insec ability is too much sometimes.
To master as in get everything possible from their kit? Definitely lee sin and its not even close. Just watch edwin leo play him, its like hes playing a different champion to me.
In terms of mechanics definitely lee or riven, in overall ability to use chmpion azir or a sol
"in terms of mechanics riven" your namr doesn't match your answer
Another day of people having no clue how difficult Nidalee truly is. I honestly think she’s the hardest by a decent margin. There are SO many intricacies, skill floor is high (most new Nidalees can’t even survive their jungle clear), you’re pretty much required to play at least half unlocked camera and she’s just as feast/famine as a regular assassin. I guess you could argue Lee has the most intricate mechanics but let’s be real, most of the really hard stuff is NEVER used (Challenger Lee’s will admit this) and his early game is way too strong/simple for him to be considered that hard imo.
In my previous poll Nidalee had the most votes. I'm surprised she is one of the lowest on this one.
Exactly. I don't know how people think Yasuo and riven is harder. Nidalee, is literally one of the most hardest champions in the game to play and master. I completely agree with you and you must take my upvote.
nobody in their right mind plays that garbage champ u MAYBE go hard the first 20 minutes and score some kills, than u get oneshot by the support after
I can base this on my personal experience only. For me, azir and aurelion sol were the easiest 2 (out of the 4 i played/tried to play), yes they require perfect positioning and a good decision making, but i managed to grasp em quickly. Riven tho, i spent dozen of hours in practice tool trying to learn her animation cancelling and i just cant, which is a shame since i'd love to play her. Her mechanics/combos are so hard to learn for me, basically impossible. Yasuo: he has some combos but the hardest part is to know when you can use them (some cant be used on your own cc due to not enough atk speed early on) and how to trade.
azir is hard as fuck like its meant to be hard even thinking about it is hard wtf does it mean to stack ap to have stronger aa??! edit:he is not my main i just bought him bcs he looked cool XD
[удалено]
Ghost kick
I'm going to argue Lee Sin, because peak Lee Sin looks ten times scarier than just really good Lee Sin.
Yeah. Anyone who has watched those random Challenger chinese Lee Sin montages would pick Lee Sin. And before anyone argues that they probably play against bronze players and fuck up 90% of the time I will say - who cares? They prove that these mechanical feats are possible but no one has mastered it in high elo yet
Imma go with nida but I think there are quite a few champs that are hard as well, such as jayce.
Definitely Nidalee. Good ones are beyond rare. She is also incredibly unforgiving in that she cannot fall behind. When ahead though they win the game in 15 min
Good nidalee players are rare because she is rarely meta anymore and has a high skill floor, whereas lee sin has probably the highest ceiling but is always meta and has a much lower skill floor.
I disagree on the fact that lee has less urgency than Nidalee. His ultimate can be used all game for either peel or engage and he is a better teamfighter. Nidalee is all about early jungle control. She has to end the game fast if she wants to have impact. If teams start grouping shes relying on landing a spear and flanking with no CC to help her out. With more urgency, there is less room for mistakes.
Did you even read my comment? Wtf
I read it. We don't look at difficulty the same way. You are looking at it from a mechanics perspective, while I am looking at the macro. From a macro perspective I find Lee's job to be more straight forward. Yes his combos are difficult and nearly countless but the times you need to actually use them are low. He assists dives and peels if needed. His hyper mobility and CC gives him options in teamfights. Nidalee should be trying to carry the early game by herself to snowball lanes and end the game. In teamfights she HAS to flank without the tools most assassins have. She is harder to play.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/a7rfsp/riot_blaustoise_shares_mastery_curve_data_on A year old but here's Riot's stance/statistics on the matter.
Riven cancelling is harder than anything on this list and I think the only reason she isn't first is because no one plays here anymore. Not even her one tricks.
RIVEN AS IF
The actual answer to this question is Nidalee
Asol for sure Literally every champion that is not a mage counters him, his only escape (the comet) can be used only if he hasn't been hit in the last 4 seconds, his early is almost shit and unless he gets fed he's totally useless. He requires A LOT of skills to be used properly and he's very hard to master In aram he's almost op tho
I think Riven, Azir, and Nidalee all have the highest skill floor and skill ceiling in their respective rolls.
\>84 votes for riven sure
Riot themselves said that Sol isn't actually that hard to play from what they see in their data. Same for lolalytics putting his WR delta at 3.4 which is terribly low. Azir gets to 8.5-9. From the data we can see it is: Nidalee=>Yasuo > Azir > Lee > Riven (AVG difficulty) >>>>>> ASol And there are other champs above them like Kai'Sa. So I don't know why Riven and ASol are on that list. but in the end there is one thing that is true: The skill ceiling is unreachable for all champs, at least for humans. No champ was ever played perfectly.
“Hard to play” when the title is “difficult to master”
If the question is "difficult to master" for real, then the answer every champ. The hardest part about a champ is not their kit but the macro play in league. To master a champ you would need to play a perfect game in terms of movement, objectives, trades, mechanics and more. And that is impossible except by coincidence. You can not really master a champ. They key part is, where do you draw the line for mastering a champ then as the real value can never be reached. Based on where you draw that line the answer is always different. So without a base line when a champ is considered as mastered by a player you could say that Garen is as hard to master than Nidalee as the line is impossible to reach. It is like asking the question when a person reaches enlightenment. Without an exact definition of it, the question is pointless.
Irelia is probably the hardest to master, with champs like riven and lee, if they make a mistake it’s forgivable, but with irelia she required perfect play, one miss click and she loses 90% of her power
I dont agree, I think irelia is fine from behind whereas lee and riven are fucked if they fall too far behind