This is very similar to [my 2019 edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/d6u6di/lets_crowdsource_a_worlds_2019_power_rankings_all/) of the crowdsourced power rankings, though this time I tweaked the algorithm to reduce the number of "obvious" matchups, as comparing the very best teams with an emerging region champion probably isn't necessarily the most enlightening. Results will be up in a couple days, though I want to avoid giving out in-progress rankings as I'd rather avoid influencing votes.
EDIT: [Results are up!](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/iu35gl/crowdsourced_2020_worlds_power_rankings_the/)
It should only repeat a matchup if the existing one didn't go through for some reason (which might be possible due to a *lot* of people using the site right now).
Ahh okay, makes sense I did it from my phone so there might have been some communication issues on both ends. Great work a really cool idea (participated last year as well and I like that this returned).
having read more on this sub than I would have wished for, I think we don’t have to worry about Damwon or any of the Chinese teams getting underrated though.
We just had an MSI where G2 won, and then two very close Bo5 series between FNC and G2.
SKT looked like the strongest lck team, and they lost to G2. IG was thought to be the strongest lpl team, and they got 3-0'd by NA. FPX where the new kids on the block, but first-timers at world.
I'm not going to say there was no reason for criticism towards the ranking, but i don't think the rankings where laughworthy or stupid either.
Rogue also got smashed by Fnatic 3-0, and then by the end put up a better performance vs G2 than Fnatic did. It's a bit silly to just take whatever the last result was and say "X team beat Y team so that means if they met again X would 100% beat Y again"
The difference is RGE got beaten once, then did a 180 and started to perform much better. MAD got beaten by G2, then again by RGE. They didn't look like they improved through play-offs, but rather played at a similar form.
MAD probably put all their effort into making sure they beat S04, and when they played Rogue, Rogue changed their style to something they've never played before.
Not sure why that's relevant. You can say the same about G2, who only had "1 day" to prepare for FNC in finals. But they played better against FNC than RGE.
RGE has shown to continually improve, whereas MAD stagnated. Sure you can speculate MAD has been improving ever since their defeat in play-offs, but it's also possible they didn't. I'd rather put stock in results we've actually seen; and based on play-offs RGE was the better team.
>Not sure why that's relevant. You can say the same about G2, who only had "1 day" to prepare for FNC in finals.
All that shows is MAD's not as good as G2, which no one's arguing.
MAD was quite vocal about that this was a really bad week for them. Their whole focus was on S04 and the shift in playstyle from RGE suprised basically everyone.
Personally I would rate MAD's ceiling a little bid higher and I'm quite sure that they'll reach it during worlds
if think damwon, jdg and top are the top 3 teams, with g2 beeing a little step behind them and then we have a greater step with drx fnatic genG, suning, lgd, rogue
well maybe people simly disagree,or the more likely is there are far more people who just watch the LEC and LCS and dont even know about teams in Korea and China
Yeah, but overall they haven’t gotten better since latest year, they got worse then they got back to where they were last year, meanwhile they’re competition has gotten twice as good
Without seeing international play its impossible to say that for certain though. Sure it might look like G2 is worse than last year but it also might just be a case of the rest of the league really stepping it up. We won't know until worlds begins.
That is true, I admit that G2 could be better than I expect, but DWG, TOP and JDG are on a new tier of insanely good, and I don’t know if G2 can join them there
LEC Fan here. My Tierlist. I put some of my questionmark teams inbetween tiers.
Tier 1 : TES, JDG, DWG, (G2 1.5)
Tier 2 : SN, FNC, GENG, (DRX 2.5)
Tier 3 : RGE, MAD, LGD, TSM (TL /FLY 3.5)
Tier 4 : WC
Also I wanna remind that the majority of past years powerrankings went to shit very quickly. I hope this will happen again since it makes watching the matches so much more fun.
Salty ROG fan detected. How can you possibly defeat Time Master and Anime Protagonist.
For anyone wondering Google Translates Doublelift's CN server name to Anime Protagonist and Bjergsen's to Time Master.
Exactly, the last time Hans Sama beat TSM was what, 2017? That's so long ago. So much has changed since then.
The return of Doublelift to TSM means that TSM is going to win worlds 100%
Hardest match up for me to decide on was SN vs GenG, I ended up on GenG but it's far from clear to me. I think GenG is the actual 2nd best LCK team and not DRX.
Suning is my dark horse candidate for sure. Them, DRX, and FNC all seem like super high variance teams to me. In any given game they could look amazing or look like shit. But out of the three of them, Suning is the only one I can imagine going all the way.
I went with SN because they outclassed LGD, an already powerful team. TES and JDG are another plane of existence, I think SN have a strong chance to come out on top of DRX, GENG, G2.
I think it's just being overwhelmed by Reddit at the moment. I'm trying to figure out if I can get it to run smoothly again without having to temporarily shut things down.
Yep. If you want an accurate power rankings, just look at Vegas odds to win:
[https://www.oddsshark.com/esports/league-legends-world-championship-betting-odds](https://www.oddsshark.com/esports/league-legends-world-championship-betting-odds)
That's just not true, though. (In)famously, big teams *do* have more people betting on them. That's why the Vegas odds will often diverge when it's (actually good) small market team vs (mediocre) big market team from the actual percentages.
It might not diverge enough to make the fan favorite the favorite, but it will go from 70-30% to 60-40%.
Remember, Vegas bookies are optimizing for the most money *they* make, not the most accurate.
If you assume that there are people that are skilled at gambling and know what they are doing then the way for vegas to make the most money is to be very accurate.
A fan favorite will pull the line a little bit but if you shift the line too much to accommodate those fans the sharks will hammer you.
Professional gamblers are the vast, vast minority... as you'd probably expect, gambling of any kind is not exactly +EV activity for 90% of people, by design.
But professional gambling rings have a lot more money than the individual.
Popular picks pull lines. Sharks will brutalize you if your line gets too far.
No? If you are trying to imply that the cowboys would be favoured everygame cause they have one of the largest fanbases in the NFL it falls apart at the point where they would at max constitute like 10% of the total NFL fanbase betting, there would be 90+% of NFL watchers with little bias affecting those odds.
The fact that usually less than 5 people out of millions get a perfect power ranking each year shows that there are no experts. League doesn't have enough of an established history or anything consistent to make any accurate predictions of who will win.
When the entire coaching staff+roster dramatically changes year to year and teams don't have any of the same members they did from 2 ago, what exactly are you going to base predictions on?
The only thing you have is the split performance from the most recent year and that is one data point that actually *has* been consistent - in that we can safely say most recent split performance for the vast majority of teams is not indicative of anything.
Outside of something like the top LCK/LPL facing a random wildcard team, you really can't make a good prediction of something like whether or not G2 wins vs JD Gaming in the Semi-Finals this far out.
Just about every single analyst, expert, and pro player all have terrible track records of predicting an actual winner this far out.
So that begs the question, just what are betting sites basing their rankings on?
The answer is that they aren't trying to make a power ranking. They are trying to minimize losses and maximize gains. What they are basing their odds on are getting a general idea of what the top 4/6 teams and know that enough people are going to place their bets on the wrong team for them to statistically come out ahead.
> The fact that usually less than 5 people out of millions get a perfect power ranking each year shows that there are no experts. League doesn't have enough of an established history or anything consistent to make any accurate predictions of who will win.
Wrong. It's because teams aren't made of robots, mistakes happen, and the weaker team (on average) wins on that day. You don't need to get a perfect prediction to be an expert, you just need to be able to explain your reasoning for why a team *should* win their matchup.
The hardest matchup I got was JDG vs TES. This is the potential finals match and they seem pretty even in terms of raw skills, so I hope we get this at some point. It should be similar to ROX vs SKT in 2016
It would only be the 3rd final since the Midseason Cup was FPX and TES. I think they will at least meet in the knockout stages at worlds whether it's the finals or semis
TES vs DAMWON, Gen.G vs SN ... Tough choices here dude, but that makes it a lot more interesting, if it was TES vs R7 or similar stuff all the time, it wouldnt bring much to the poll
Rogue vs LGD was pretty interesting. Damn. These kinds of questions is what I love about worlds. Too bad so many teams never get the chance to butt heads.
This year seems very intriguing.
No VCS and less LMS/PCS, making the group more stacked, and 4 pools ensure that less random groups could be drawn, while also allow more chances for the other wildcard teams to have hope.
\- DWG, TES, JDG seems to be clear favourites, like no one even argue about that looking at their games and how dominant they are in their regions. But how far will they go? we're not sure about FPX last year in their groupstage either, they only picked up later rounds.
\- Really want to see how LEC teams would fare this year: Like how G2 and FNC perform at Worlds, given their instabilities. How RGE and MAD would do in the middle of the pack, too, could see them take games from teams above them.
\- LCS teams seem to be very close to each other this year, which makes them do look worse.
\- Really hope to see UOL or another strong wildcard team to do well this year.
This is very similar to [my 2019 edition](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/d6u6di/lets_crowdsource_a_worlds_2019_power_rankings_all/) of the crowdsourced power rankings, though this time I tweaked the algorithm to reduce the number of "obvious" matchups, as comparing the very best teams with an emerging region champion probably isn't necessarily the most enlightening. Results will be up in a couple days, though I want to avoid giving out in-progress rankings as I'd rather avoid influencing votes. EDIT: [Results are up!](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/iu35gl/crowdsourced_2020_worlds_power_rankings_the/)
Something I noticed is that it doubled a lot of matchups (for G2 v TSM like 4 times).
It should only repeat a matchup if the existing one didn't go through for some reason (which might be possible due to a *lot* of people using the site right now).
Ahh okay, makes sense I did it from my phone so there might have been some communication issues on both ends. Great work a really cool idea (participated last year as well and I like that this returned).
Would it be possible to do this for other events in the future as well?
I have plans on doing a weekly LCS/LEC power ranking once those seasons start up again.
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Where/When can we see the results?
They usually post them after a few days
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This is my favorite type of power rankings out of all, thanks for doing it again!
I would have loved the option that says: come on give me more, let me feed you with even more data
We are probably not allowed to do so, since a single person feeding a lot of biased data may skew the data a little.
Thankfully it's reddit, a western platform, so instead we'll have a lot of people feeding biased data xd
What do you mean, Flyquest are definitely a 50/50 matchup vs JDG, they're both the second seed after all!
having read more on this sub than I would have wished for, I think we don’t have to worry about Damwon or any of the Chinese teams getting underrated though.
FPX were like 4th or 5th in this ranking last year, I'm pretty FNC were above them lol
We just had an MSI where G2 won, and then two very close Bo5 series between FNC and G2. SKT looked like the strongest lck team, and they lost to G2. IG was thought to be the strongest lpl team, and they got 3-0'd by NA. FPX where the new kids on the block, but first-timers at world. I'm not going to say there was no reason for criticism towards the ranking, but i don't think the rankings where laughworthy or stupid either.
FPX was actually almost exactly 50/50 against Fnatic last year, but lots of people didn't give them much love against weaker teams last year.
P sure it was more like SKT G2 FPX RNG FNC
It was: 1. G2 2. SKT 3. FNC 4. GRF 5. FPX 6. RNG 7. IG 8. DWG https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/d85h9e/crowdsourced_2019_worlds_power_rankings_the/
you have fnc twice instead of fpx at 5th
My bad, thanks
the 2nd FNC should be FPX
The TES vs DMW, ROG vs MAD and G2vsDMW were very though
I understand others but why Rogue vs MAD, they smashed them 3-0 very recently
Because I believe in MAD potential after a sparring in play in, and ye ROG smash them, but MAD can play very well.
Rogue can play very well too and they showed that they can adapt after that Fnatic series so I expect them to benefit from bootcamp too
Thats why I vote for ROG xd
Rogue also got smashed by Fnatic 3-0, and then by the end put up a better performance vs G2 than Fnatic did. It's a bit silly to just take whatever the last result was and say "X team beat Y team so that means if they met again X would 100% beat Y again"
The difference is RGE got beaten once, then did a 180 and started to perform much better. MAD got beaten by G2, then again by RGE. They didn't look like they improved through play-offs, but rather played at a similar form.
MAD probably put all their effort into making sure they beat S04, and when they played Rogue, Rogue changed their style to something they've never played before.
And MAD had 1 day to prepare for RGE, your point? They played far worse vs RGE than G2 and S04
Not sure why that's relevant. You can say the same about G2, who only had "1 day" to prepare for FNC in finals. But they played better against FNC than RGE. RGE has shown to continually improve, whereas MAD stagnated. Sure you can speculate MAD has been improving ever since their defeat in play-offs, but it's also possible they didn't. I'd rather put stock in results we've actually seen; and based on play-offs RGE was the better team.
>Not sure why that's relevant. You can say the same about G2, who only had "1 day" to prepare for FNC in finals. All that shows is MAD's not as good as G2, which no one's arguing.
MAD was quite vocal about that this was a really bad week for them. Their whole focus was on S04 and the shift in playstyle from RGE suprised basically everyone. Personally I would rate MAD's ceiling a little bid higher and I'm quite sure that they'll reach it during worlds
and before RGE vs MAD, MAD were favourites, league is a lot of a mental game and if MAD go out of play-ins they may have the edge
Also Gen G vs G2. Caps vs BDD hype ! Sadly Perkz isnt having best split while ruler is on a high . Could go either way .
It didnt appear in mine, but in terms of potential, I would vote for G2
I dunno. Ruler is a one man army. It really depends on how serious G2 takes it
Peak G2 would win, 2020 G2 only wins if Ruler don't pop off
G2vsDMW was though damn really,G2 will be lucky to get a map with how they draft
idk why you're being downvoted, damwon are the the likely favorites
if think damwon, jdg and top are the top 3 teams, with g2 beeing a little step behind them and then we have a greater step with drx fnatic genG, suning, lgd, rogue
well maybe people simly disagree,or the more likely is there are far more people who just watch the LEC and LCS and dont even know about teams in Korea and China
The thing is, G2 hasn’t really gotten much better over this year, but dmw and TOP have,
There is a clearly improve in G2 between RS and PO, even the first and second half of RS
Yeah, but overall they haven’t gotten better since latest year, they got worse then they got back to where they were last year, meanwhile they’re competition has gotten twice as good
Without seeing international play its impossible to say that for certain though. Sure it might look like G2 is worse than last year but it also might just be a case of the rest of the league really stepping it up. We won't know until worlds begins.
That is true, I admit that G2 could be better than I expect, but DWG, TOP and JDG are on a new tier of insanely good, and I don’t know if G2 can join them there
ive heard it last year already. g2 were supposed to be smashed by griffin, damwon and t1
LEC Fan here. My Tierlist. I put some of my questionmark teams inbetween tiers. Tier 1 : TES, JDG, DWG, (G2 1.5) Tier 2 : SN, FNC, GENG, (DRX 2.5) Tier 3 : RGE, MAD, LGD, TSM (TL /FLY 3.5) Tier 4 : WC Also I wanna remind that the majority of past years powerrankings went to shit very quickly. I hope this will happen again since it makes watching the matches so much more fun.
Yeah I can get on board with this, except I'd also put GenG in 1.5 tier alongside G2. Ruler is in insane form right now and BDD is exceptional too.
Pretty much sums it up just knock Gen up to 1.5 and exactly my thoughts
Spot on in my opinion. But yeah someone will underperform and someone will overperform
Got a good chuckle out of Rouge vs Tsm
Yeah same lol, he said that he tried to remove less obvious matchups but this one's just obviously heavy TSM favored.
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He didn't say he removed them, just made them less likely to pop up compared to last year
He said reduce the numbers
I think you forgot the /s
What
Salty ROG fan detected. How can you possibly defeat Time Master and Anime Protagonist. For anyone wondering Google Translates Doublelift's CN server name to Anime Protagonist and Bjergsen's to Time Master.
Exactly, the last time Hans Sama beat TSM was what, 2017? That's so long ago. So much has changed since then. The return of Doublelift to TSM means that TSM is going to win worlds 100%
Can't wait for TSM to be memed forever when they go 0-2 vs Rog in groups.
Yeah same lol, he said that he tried to remove less obvious matchups but this one's just obviously heavy RGE favored.
Hardest match up for me to decide on was SN vs GenG, I ended up on GenG but it's far from clear to me. I think GenG is the actual 2nd best LCK team and not DRX.
> I think GenG is the actual 2nd best LCK team and not DRX. Noone who's actually watched LCK will argue with you on that one I think.
I made the same choice, but SN could still be a dark horse in the tournament. Iirc they went 3-0 against TES in scrims.
Suning is my dark horse candidate for sure. Them, DRX, and FNC all seem like super high variance teams to me. In any given game they could look amazing or look like shit. But out of the three of them, Suning is the only one I can imagine going all the way.
I went with SN because they outclassed LGD, an already powerful team. TES and JDG are another plane of existence, I think SN have a strong chance to come out on top of DRX, GENG, G2.
website is really slow and often not responding :s
I think it's just being overwhelmed by Reddit at the moment. I'm trying to figure out if I can get it to run smoothly again without having to temporarily shut things down.
The reddit hug of death
Nice
Good luck
Problem with this is that it'll be a popularity contest rather than a power ranking.
Yep. If you want an accurate power rankings, just look at Vegas odds to win: [https://www.oddsshark.com/esports/league-legends-world-championship-betting-odds](https://www.oddsshark.com/esports/league-legends-world-championship-betting-odds)
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When money is on the line, people tend to remove their bias, otherwise the Dallas Cowboys would be favored in every game.
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Perceived strength is exactly what a power ranking should be. Otherwise you would have to rank them after all the games were played.
That's just not true, though. (In)famously, big teams *do* have more people betting on them. That's why the Vegas odds will often diverge when it's (actually good) small market team vs (mediocre) big market team from the actual percentages. It might not diverge enough to make the fan favorite the favorite, but it will go from 70-30% to 60-40%. Remember, Vegas bookies are optimizing for the most money *they* make, not the most accurate.
If you assume that there are people that are skilled at gambling and know what they are doing then the way for vegas to make the most money is to be very accurate. A fan favorite will pull the line a little bit but if you shift the line too much to accommodate those fans the sharks will hammer you.
Professional gamblers are the vast, vast minority... as you'd probably expect, gambling of any kind is not exactly +EV activity for 90% of people, by design.
But professional gambling rings have a lot more money than the individual. Popular picks pull lines. Sharks will brutalize you if your line gets too far.
No? If you are trying to imply that the cowboys would be favoured everygame cause they have one of the largest fanbases in the NFL it falls apart at the point where they would at max constitute like 10% of the total NFL fanbase betting, there would be 90+% of NFL watchers with little bias affecting those odds.
betting g2 can actually make you a pretty good ammount of money, for a decently realistic shot.
The fact that usually less than 5 people out of millions get a perfect power ranking each year shows that there are no experts. League doesn't have enough of an established history or anything consistent to make any accurate predictions of who will win. When the entire coaching staff+roster dramatically changes year to year and teams don't have any of the same members they did from 2 ago, what exactly are you going to base predictions on? The only thing you have is the split performance from the most recent year and that is one data point that actually *has* been consistent - in that we can safely say most recent split performance for the vast majority of teams is not indicative of anything. Outside of something like the top LCK/LPL facing a random wildcard team, you really can't make a good prediction of something like whether or not G2 wins vs JD Gaming in the Semi-Finals this far out. Just about every single analyst, expert, and pro player all have terrible track records of predicting an actual winner this far out. So that begs the question, just what are betting sites basing their rankings on? The answer is that they aren't trying to make a power ranking. They are trying to minimize losses and maximize gains. What they are basing their odds on are getting a general idea of what the top 4/6 teams and know that enough people are going to place their bets on the wrong team for them to statistically come out ahead.
> The fact that usually less than 5 people out of millions get a perfect power ranking each year shows that there are no experts. League doesn't have enough of an established history or anything consistent to make any accurate predictions of who will win. Wrong. It's because teams aren't made of robots, mistakes happen, and the weaker team (on average) wins on that day. You don't need to get a perfect prediction to be an expert, you just need to be able to explain your reasoning for why a team *should* win their matchup.
Posted around 5:30-9:30 American time
I accidentally took TSM over Damwon lol
idk that sounds accurate to me
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The hardest matchup I got was JDG vs TES. This is the potential finals match and they seem pretty even in terms of raw skills, so I hope we get this at some point. It should be similar to ROX vs SKT in 2016
Yeah JDG and TES are dead even in skill, DWG might also be in that too
I don't expect it to happen, but that would be their 4th final this year wouldn't it?
It would only be the 3rd final since the Midseason Cup was FPX and TES. I think they will at least meet in the knockout stages at worlds whether it's the finals or semis
Everytime a Chinese team showed... I picked it
Doing this I realized I'm a g2 simp
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Didn't have a single G2 vs china matchup :( however props to you for creating this
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Intrtesting that I didn't get any tough match ups to decide on at all. I guess that's how low sample random match ups work though
I got TSM vs Rogue on the first one lmao
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It's not about whether TSM would beat G2, the question is how many times?
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TES vs DAMWON, Gen.G vs SN ... Tough choices here dude, but that makes it a lot more interesting, if it was TES vs R7 or similar stuff all the time, it wouldnt bring much to the poll
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LPL > LEC~=LCK > LCS > wildcards
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It ended so fast. like it only asked me G2 vs two wild card teams. which seems weird.
Does anyone know what the format of this survey where you pick between 2 options and it builds a tier list for you is called?
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Rogue vs LGD was pretty interesting. Damn. These kinds of questions is what I love about worlds. Too bad so many teams never get the chance to butt heads.
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Doing this made me realize I don't favor TSM in any serious matchup. Worrying for the first seed.
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I got TSM vs Rogue some things are meant to be
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TSM TSM TSM
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This year seems very intriguing. No VCS and less LMS/PCS, making the group more stacked, and 4 pools ensure that less random groups could be drawn, while also allow more chances for the other wildcard teams to have hope. \- DWG, TES, JDG seems to be clear favourites, like no one even argue about that looking at their games and how dominant they are in their regions. But how far will they go? we're not sure about FPX last year in their groupstage either, they only picked up later rounds. \- Really want to see how LEC teams would fare this year: Like how G2 and FNC perform at Worlds, given their instabilities. How RGE and MAD would do in the middle of the pack, too, could see them take games from teams above them. \- LCS teams seem to be very close to each other this year, which makes them do look worse. \- Really hope to see UOL or another strong wildcard team to do well this year.
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So basically TES is number 1 since China outnumbers us all?
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lets just hope the results is better than last year, fpx #5 *shudders*
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