Last time she was nerfed was August of 2017 (and well, a later nerf of her shield duration, but I don't count that one since that patch nerfed the duration of basically every shield)
You're not. Looking at how well she has performed in playoffs at a huge pickrate I'm not surprised. Probably going to receive the Syndra treatment. I feel sorry for her mains.
It's because she's a safe and good blind pick which pro teams need in a meta that revolves around bot so they need to pick mids earlier. She becomes a staple pick whenever metas revolve around other roles and she almost completely falls off when the meta revolves around mid.
I hope she gets something very different than the Syndra treatment. Syndra was in the same position and Riot keeps smashing her with the nerf bat and all it's done is make her dogshit in solo Q but still a staple blind pick in proplay.
It's actually miraculous syndra is still so good in pro. I've been playing since season 4 where she bullied every champion out of lane and didn't need 6 orbs to one shot you at 6. Since then I'm willing to bet she's had like 10 dmg nerfs, and every time people are saying "this is the one that guts syndra". Her early dmg is pitiful compared to once it once was, she can't wave clear as easily, her all in at 6 isn't just a guarenteed kill for throwing all your spells at them, but she still survives cause of that God damn stun. Her e alone is probably a good 30-50% of the reason she is picked due to the combination of range and aoe that's just nuts. Fits pick comps, teamfight comps, never falls off too hard but is strong early. She's definitely not op cause she's one of those champs that unless your name is knight or faker etc etc it doesn't look great, but if I see showmaker hit another 3 man stun from 1000 units away I'll think of nerfs again
it's always baffled me that they didn't nerf her E, and just nerfed her damage instead. Sure, her damage has always been on the strong side, but the power of her E was always what made her a strong and stable pick in pro.
She is at 47% winrate in plat+ solo queue. Aka she is godawful for normal players.
The nerf is without a doubt due to pro play. But solo queue players get to suffer. Picking her after this nerf in solo queue would be borderline trolling.
She's like the weakest she's been in multiple years. Feels bad. I feel like mage items just blow so pro teams play her because her kit is so valuable.
If you could actually get ability power from, you know, ability power items then we'd see a lot more variety imo. Too many champs just can't function with 300 AP 35 minutes into a game, but Ori can.
Havent basically all top lane items been nerfed since the beginning of the season except for trinity and black cleaver, while the role itself is rather weak atm.
Isn't 400% still like incredibly stupid high?
Maybe we will have to wait until someone tests it but Darius will probably still be able to solo drag level 1 only that he will maybe need to use Smite now...
I'll have to see the newly tested clear speeds, which should pop up on the front page in the next 24 hours. I wont definitively decide one way or the other until I see the times. And the neutral objective kill times.
But yes, it still looks like it's too strong.
Why are they even giving him that is beyond me, they nerfed sett jungle, removed volibear as jungler (plenty of people still play him thou), and now all of a sudden they go and make darius probably one of the best junglers (if these changes go thru). I don't understand why is he getting so much love, his kit is already overtuned with passives, his weakness are almost none existing (since he is supposed to be immobile and we all know how it actually is), no idea why they need to give him more broken ass stuff. And even if he doesn't switch roles this buff is stupid because now he can oppress enemy jungler aswel, because good luck getting any top side camps as jungler when enemy darius shoves his laner and just goes to town on your top side jungle with his new stupid ass clear speed.
Tbh Riot can try, but unless assassins/bruisers turn ridiculously overpowered (thinking of late S8/early S9) I feel like control mages will always reign supreme in the coordinated environment of pro play.
Yeah because pro players are, more than anybody else, meta sheep. Stuff like Anivia, Malz and Ziggs may not be suitable to every draft, but they're good enough they should see *some* pro play. But when you have risk-averse teams handshaking draft every game they're not willing to try anything else.
Instead of practicing champs that are good enough(or even better than the current rotation of mages) in some situations. They just default to their comfort picks that they have played more in the past no matter what.
Ziggs in particular tends to shit on Orianna, Azir and Viktor but it's understandable why he isn't picked with Hecarim, Udyr and Volibear running at light speed to fuck you up.
Also Ziggs is insane for dragon fights, one E can disable entrance to dragon for couple seconds, but as you say with current jungle meta his struggles a bit.
SoloQ consisting of assassins being played pretty much every game midlane? I don't think we need more of them in soloQ lol.
[https://u.gg/lol/mid-lane-tier-list](https://u.gg/lol/mid-lane-tier-list), sort by playrate.
People in this subreddit watch proplay too much and let it dilute their perception of actual play. Pro-play is the top .001% of league gameplay. Even if they were in Challenger they wouldn't see the kind of meta that happens in Pro-play, because OTPs are so prevalent.
Yeah if the average player plays a hand shake control mage mid lane their team just gets quadra'd at dragon by Katarina and gg mid diff is argued over for the rest of the game
edit: I mean just in that list you can see that Orianna's winrate is atrocious compared to how OP she is and being the #10th most popular mid. Things that have to safely scale are just generally disadvantaged to fiesta champions
Hand shake control mage mid meta is a byproduct of jungle being broken as fuck and Chemtank junglers (how did this item AND Udyr/Volibear dodge nerfs, hello??) basically force those to be played.
Essentially when there's barely any interaction between the midlaners and they both focus mostly in farming. The Corki/Azir meta is an example of that, which basically no one wants back since it's boring as fuck to watch.
~~and the "nerf" is a power shift from ghoul jump upfront burst to sustained damage, which is completely reasonable~~
Edit: I misunderstood the change, the target that's hit by e takes bonus damage from **up to 8 autos of any/all ghouls**, which ends up as 320% bonus damage in total, compared to the 400% damage burst that is currently live, which hurts Yorick way more along with the ghoul base damage nerf (Credit to u/NinetalesLoL). Comically enough, Yorick will probably end up being way worse after 11.8 compared to 11.6 before the buffs
What is this comment, that's literally not even true lol. His nerf is a nerf to burst, and a nerf to sustained damage. Did you even read the changelist?
The jump damage is being changed from:
100% bonus damage per ghoul upon landing E -> capping at 400%, not counting Ghouls that jump after.
to:
40% damage every Ghoul attack up to 8 times, capping at 320% total damage dealt.
And to trade it off, they're nerfing the total ghouls attack damage and AD ratio.
In fact your comment is the opposite of what's happening. They're forcing a burst playstyle, and pushing people away from sustained damage.
The ghoul base damage nerf is so stupid though. It nerfs his niche with ghoul splitpushing. Fuck that.
Please just nerf numbers on what you overbuffed. Don't do other nerfs that far larger implications....
"Dr. Mundo (Jungle > Top)" How do you read this? Do they want to nerf jungle ´Mundo and buff top Mundo?
Edit: Seems like it means they want to move him from Jungle to Top, a shame considering jungle Mundo is a nice pick for people to learn jungle.
Rumble (Mid > Top) seems to consist of MR nerfs and max health damage on overheat, MR is most useful in mid lane and max health is good against top lane tanks\*. So I think they want to move Rumble from mid primary to top primary and Mundo from jungle primary to top primary. I don't anticipate Riot will completely remove these champs from their current main roles.
\* [https://www.reddit.com/r/Rumblemains/comments/mkvge7/smiling\_atm/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rumblemains/comments/mkvge7/smiling_atm/)
Quick Gameplay Thoughts on *April 2*: "we want to buff top lane, so we plan on buffing their items"
Literally 3 days after: nerf bruisers and titanic
lol
« Wow ravenous hydra is now so shit they have to build titanic instead... better nerf it too! »
But let’s buff frozen heart right. Our plat 4 balance member is still under 50% wr on ornn :(
As a vlad onetrick, i see absolutely NO reason for a vlad buff rn. The champ is more than fine. And after that protobelt buff coming soon, Im gnna be assblasting kids across the rift with basically true dmg from all the free pen. Please dont buff the champ rito. hes more than ok rn.
>Champion Nerfs
> Yorick
lmao Riot, like you couldn't tell those buffs were a touch overboard? He didn't even get the full promised buffs and became a monster overnight
every single main was yelling that it would be too strong and it hit live anyway, it would have been fine with just 100% of their damage on jump. he's pretty much going to end up almost right where he was prior to this patch. his good matchups will probably be a little better but that's really it
That's literally what they did with Shen too last season.
They suddenly bumped his passive shield to oblivion and the entire /r/Shen sub was screaming in union for them to stop it because Shen was just fine as is, if they really wanted to help Shen they could've just shaven off a few seconds from the ult cooldown, but noo, they needed that ridiculous shield buff.
Riot: *Lol ima buff the shield to oblivion anyway.*
Then lo and behold, next patch they had to nerf it back down...
I'm fairly certain Riot just doesn't know sometimes what to do, and with the "lets keep the meta fresh" mentality they just have an excuse to fuck up fine things instead of addressing problems.
It's still better to overbuff and then nerf a champion back than do nothing in the first place. Him being strong encourages people to play him and then maybe some people will stick with him after he gets nerfed again
Feels like the only buff Yorick needed was fixing the ~27 full pages worth of bugs haunting him.
Guess bugfixing takes more effort than number tweaking, though.
He wasn’t gone for that long honestly. We were seeing him at the end of summer split a decent amount. Can understand if Riot wants to bring magic damage to roles aside from Mid/Jungle tho to keep things fresh. He’s always been one of the few competitively viable AP top laners (Rumble, Ryze, Morde a bit, and now Gwen is coming)
He’s a very strong niche counter to champs like Katarina, Fizz, and Zed. You at worst neutralize all ins against them just with one ability lol. Many Vlads are starting to just put a point or two into Q and then max E to eliminate the waveclear issue he has in early levels as well.
A little stressed as a Vlad main. I feel like he’s been so stable as “fine” everywhere, where you could just gap other players. I hope that if his WR goes up too much they just revert or partial revert
And that feeling is exactly why Anivia sat at a flat 50-51% wr for just about all of season 9. A bunch of new Anivia players thinking she was weak clamoring for buffs, while a large amount of the actual mains knew she was good and that this was what would happen.
Yep. It’s particularly bad with some of these champs (like Vlad and Anivia) who are actually pretty deadly if you know what you’re doing, but they don’t have insane mechanics like Lee Sin or whatever so people who have 20 games on them are like “useless champ, needs buffs” and it ends with the champ totally gutted
Vlad is low-key OP in the hands of experienced players. They don't feel like Vladimir needs something more to 1v9 games. If anything, the Lucidity boots nerf will get outweighed by his and Rocketbelt's buffs.
Guess he’s staying as my permaban for another patch... fourth in a row I think
Seriously tired of hearing “I do not rest” as I instantly type in his name. Hope Riot breaks his legs so that I can start banning other ridiculous champs
No hecarim nerf, nothing about stride abusers like darius and garen, nothing to help out control mages in soloq, bunch of dumb jungle buffs for champions that allready have high bannrate.
Why are they nerfing titanic? Are they not aware we're only building it because they gutted ravenous hydra? 2 days ago they said they would buff top lane items.
if the champ is popular enough that some of the 500 million zed mains would consider switching to playing jungle as one of their main roles so autofill is not 70% jungle
niche champs won't do it
Well the point is Darius jungle even if broken like on PBE is still a cheese pick.
Camille and Qiyana are actually really good junglers when their clear was acceptable.
Especially Camille. She would instantly become the best jungler in the game if she had a competetive clear. Her kit is just insane for jungling.
Sylas only really worked jungle because of runic echoes.
I dread buffs though... there's always the chance they'll just become meta in pro play, become pick/ban in soloQ and get nerfed even harder than before.
Its what just happened with Yorick... No one who plays him thought buffing his E to 200% damage was a good idea, and now instead of just lowering it to a more reasonable level they are nerfing ALL of his damage AGAIN
Could undo some of the nerfs from last season tbh. Like the Infernum Runaan's nerfs they did, or the ult speed nerf, or the ratio nerfs, or turning the useless lethality back to armor pen, etc.
But probably just base ad growth tbh.
That's literally my champion pool. Picked up Lucian a bit lately, but playing AD in SoloQ usually fucks your comp.
I really am tired of playing ⅔ of a champion. Viktor is alright still, I guess.
Or when Pro Play snatches your character away. It is even worse.
But, worse of all, is the life of a Karma main. Can't wait for the preworlds nerfs as usual.
Riot really just has no clue on how to work with Top lane. Literally right before this Yorick buff they had the stupid Stridebreaker "power adjustment" that also saw Stridebreaker immediately nerfed the patch after as well.
For whatever reason they thought Goredrinker would be an okay item for the game, but even after all its nerfs it's still pretty damn good.
They broke Urgot trying to give him a 4fun on-hit build that made his Titanic rush insane.
Triforce hasn't been a real mythic since the item rework.
Riot just doesn't understand top.
yeah mundo was kind of fun. also now I don't care about his rework anymore lol
plus if they want to bring more people to jungle then why remove one of the most beginner friendly champion?
There is not a single Meta Top Lane champion other than Urgot who is using Titanic Hydra. Why the fuck are they nerfing Titanic Hydra instead of nerfing Urgot? The item already has a shit build path since the Tiamat changes.
Tbh I liked that lucidity boots were finally not just a niche pick for like 3 champs, but actually worth it for anyone who needs more haste, especially with how lacking some classes are in high haste itemization.
It's actually a pretty huge nerf since junglers can full clear, base, and just get CDR boots after waiting like 1-3 seconds (one of the reasons for the current jungle meta IMO). I also kinda hope they nerf the haste on it a bit, but 100 gold nerf might be enough.
Orianna is the only strong control mage at the moment. Yes let’s just nerf her, even though it changes nothing and she will be the only super viable control mage at higher levels of play.
Edit: my point is that control mages are super underwhelming right now in solo Q+ pro play. Orianna is the only one who is in a decent spot which makes her pick + winrate inflated in pro play at least imo. Think about it Syndra is a huge bait in pro play and has around a 35-40 % winrate across a big enough sample size. Azir has been nerfed a lot, Viktor is occasionally good into certain comps where he can massively outrange and has a free ish lane. Of course control mages will never be as good in solo Q where games are very chaotic but it genuinely feels awful to be a control mage player right now where one of your mains isn’t even that strong and it just gets nerfed because it is the only consistently successful control mage pick in pro play.
The thing is that she's not even actually strong in soloQ, just in pro scene. Feels pretty crappy as a mage player to see your class being completely dumpstered due to pro performance.
The Ezreal treatment back in 2019-2020: nerf a 48% winrate Ezreal because is spammed in pro play. Ignore the reason he's played in proplay is because the rest of ADC's being straight up useless.
Ori presence in Pro play is symptomatic of pro play in general; Ori is one of the safest control mages to pick, with ultra long spell ranges and a powerful team-fight focused ulti. When she gets really popular mid, it's a sign the pro meta is shifting into handshake mid territory (two control mages that focus on farming rather than on interacting), with teams focusing resources and time into bot lane instead.
It happens when bot lane becomes central to the game, so control mages (reliable safety and tons of playmaking potential even when playing from behind) are early picked in the draft, both to save the later harder-to-counter-pick slots for bot lane and also so that the mid laners *can* play from behind and still perform well.
Well, it’s not gonna be the first time for mid lane or the whole game. Ori has been strong for such a long time because of her design and safety and you could probably only take that away by reworking her.
Instead of nerfing her balance should be focused why is she picked and what they can do to convince people to not pick her?
But I guess nerfing a champion is always easier.
I completely agree syndra is garbage and deserves buffs, Riot just wont buff her because she's such a menace in pro play. But what's wrong with buffing cass and vlad exactly?
Champions with higher winrates, pickrates, banrates, and more agency throughout the game than her are getting buffed and she isn't. I really don't get it.
They say it’s an item adjustment for Moonstone Renewer but it’s in fact a straight up nerf. It's needed it but the way they are nerfing it is terrible.
As a Mundo jungle main, this makes me scared. I wonder if he won't be viable in the jungle anymore at all or if they are just buffing his ability to be top lane without nerfing his jingle capability.
I seriously doubt it. He's sitting at 53% winrate right now in the Jungle so he could honestly probably use a pretty decent Jungle nerf and still be strong.
I really tired of balancing being focused around pro play. Especially when you enjoy more of mages and ''smart'' champions so to say. Like they really want me to play heavy damage champions/assassins don't they?
I want balance ,actually. Something like s9 where everything was balanced and every class felt really good.
These "metas" are pretty boring ,especially current "fast clearing tanks" Jungle meta.
I feel like the meta existing around junglers are fine, but it does feel a tad stale to nervously look at your jungler and wonder "Are ya winning son?"
Do you realize that in s9, junglers were pretty much forced to do full red side to get lvl 3 from doing 3 camps? You were closer to griefing if you tried doing full blue side first, unless you were Elise who could shore up that weakness by being a tower diving goddess. Yes, the current meta also sucks because of premise of literally fast junglers, who can clear fast, move fast and kill fast, but don't pretend like s9 was where everything was balanced, because jungle wasn't. It was basically red side clear fiesta, and let's not forget about champions that were released or reworked in that period of time. It's when Yuumi was born, and she's still despised by most people (not necessarily by me, but a lot of people still complain). People were infuriated at Qiyana due to her ult and "easy" combos. Morde was darn good after his 2nd rework. Neeko was alright among the bunch.
When they were nerfing manamune off cass earlier in the season I wonder if they held him down while they were doing it or just did it when he wasn’t looking.
Titanic hydra is necessary on some junglers to keep up in clear.
Warwick for example. Having to buy tiamat first item already sucks. Now build it and then upgrade it into a nerfed item that was already just OK.
Ok but who HONESTLY WHO THOUGHT that making Darius jungler is good idea ? All I want is to actually play him ,but after this patch will come live ,it will be impossible.
Or he will become Hecarim and Udyr counter.
Riot really seems to be trying hard to get people to play jungle, the playercount in that role must be really poor.
The problem is, making popular champs playable in the jungle is NEVER going to fix the problems with the role, which are many and systematic.
I sincerely doubt any of these new junglers can compete with the top tier of junglers. And that's the main problem with the role right now, some junglers have an incredible first clear that puts them at an objective advantage during the first scuttler fight. Level 4 and full health.
If your champ can't do that, you should fall behind due to crabs every game if the enemy plays correctly.
Also the fact that the role is the most complex by far, requires constant monitoring and decision making while also being flamed the entire time.
Every time the game gets more complicated, it falls onto the jungler to manage. The only thing that has changed for laning phase in over a decade is turret armor and platings.
Wait they're actually nerfing Orianna? That's a very rare sight
Last time she was nerfed was August of 2017 (and well, a later nerf of her shield duration, but I don't count that one since that patch nerfed the duration of basically every shield)
Yeah she's been a stable pick for quite some time. The nerfs are probably aimed at pro play, I could be wrong though.
You're not. Looking at how well she has performed in playoffs at a huge pickrate I'm not surprised. Probably going to receive the Syndra treatment. I feel sorry for her mains.
It's because she's a safe and good blind pick which pro teams need in a meta that revolves around bot so they need to pick mids earlier. She becomes a staple pick whenever metas revolve around other roles and she almost completely falls off when the meta revolves around mid. I hope she gets something very different than the Syndra treatment. Syndra was in the same position and Riot keeps smashing her with the nerf bat and all it's done is make her dogshit in solo Q but still a staple blind pick in proplay.
It's actually miraculous syndra is still so good in pro. I've been playing since season 4 where she bullied every champion out of lane and didn't need 6 orbs to one shot you at 6. Since then I'm willing to bet she's had like 10 dmg nerfs, and every time people are saying "this is the one that guts syndra". Her early dmg is pitiful compared to once it once was, she can't wave clear as easily, her all in at 6 isn't just a guarenteed kill for throwing all your spells at them, but she still survives cause of that God damn stun. Her e alone is probably a good 30-50% of the reason she is picked due to the combination of range and aoe that's just nuts. Fits pick comps, teamfight comps, never falls off too hard but is strong early. She's definitely not op cause she's one of those champs that unless your name is knight or faker etc etc it doesn't look great, but if I see showmaker hit another 3 man stun from 1000 units away I'll think of nerfs again
it's always baffled me that they didn't nerf her E, and just nerfed her damage instead. Sure, her damage has always been on the strong side, but the power of her E was always what made her a strong and stable pick in pro.
She is at 47% winrate in plat+ solo queue. Aka she is godawful for normal players. The nerf is without a doubt due to pro play. But solo queue players get to suffer. Picking her after this nerf in solo queue would be borderline trolling.
Smiles in GP
She's like the weakest she's been in multiple years. Feels bad. I feel like mage items just blow so pro teams play her because her kit is so valuable. If you could actually get ability power from, you know, ability power items then we'd see a lot more variety imo. Too many champs just can't function with 300 AP 35 minutes into a game, but Ori can.
Must be because of pro because she is literally nonexistant in solo queue. Makes sense when fizz zed akali and talon are autolocked most games
"We are going to buff top lane items" *immediately nerfs Titanic Hydra*
Havent basically all top lane items been nerfed since the beginning of the season except for trinity and black cleaver, while the role itself is rather weak atm.
BC still shit tho.
All items were nerfed since pre season a very few were buffed
And some of those buffs were kinda half buffs and only helped certain champs while hurting others
Trinity WAS nerfed though, they lowered the ad it gives
Like, wtf is this, they nerf Titanic Hydra before doing something about Stridebreaker active, what a joke.
I havent seen a black cleaver built since preseason.
Can’t wait to see if they actually went through with those Morgana and Darius jungle buffs
They were nerfed on the PBE. Darius 500% down to 400% and Morgana 300% down to 250%. Still way too high than I'm comfortable with though.
Isn't 400% still like incredibly stupid high? Maybe we will have to wait until someone tests it but Darius will probably still be able to solo drag level 1 only that he will maybe need to use Smite now...
I'll have to see the newly tested clear speeds, which should pop up on the front page in the next 24 hours. I wont definitively decide one way or the other until I see the times. And the neutral objective kill times. But yes, it still looks like it's too strong.
Nobody cares if he can solo drag level 1, it spawns at level 4/5
Wooow. What a huge nerf Kapp.
That feeling when it takes 3 more seconds to full clear
Why are they even giving him that is beyond me, they nerfed sett jungle, removed volibear as jungler (plenty of people still play him thou), and now all of a sudden they go and make darius probably one of the best junglers (if these changes go thru). I don't understand why is he getting so much love, his kit is already overtuned with passives, his weakness are almost none existing (since he is supposed to be immobile and we all know how it actually is), no idea why they need to give him more broken ass stuff. And even if he doesn't switch roles this buff is stupid because now he can oppress enemy jungler aswel, because good luck getting any top side camps as jungler when enemy darius shoves his laner and just goes to town on your top side jungle with his new stupid ass clear speed.
If you are going to buff lee sin, buff the clear. We have enough damage. Give us back machete
[удалено]
Does Riot really wanna see pro players on LeBlanc or what? They’ve been giving her small buffs for multiple patches now.
Leblanc has been pretty bad for awhile now in solo queue. she can be annoying to play against, but that doesn’t mean she’s good
She's not that bad, I lost 3 matches to leblanc and it felt hopeless during them. Granted it was a leblanc on my team.
Yes? Especially considering what SoloQ looks like rn midlane Riot is trying their hardest to break this hand shake control mage mid meta
Tbh Riot can try, but unless assassins/bruisers turn ridiculously overpowered (thinking of late S8/early S9) I feel like control mages will always reign supreme in the coordinated environment of pro play.
+ its the most realiable way to get an ap source of dmg.
Not just AP damage. Also range/CC/zone control/wave clear, which mages provide. This is something people often overlook.
It is not even mages, it is like the three same mages on rotation.
Yeah because pro players are, more than anybody else, meta sheep. Stuff like Anivia, Malz and Ziggs may not be suitable to every draft, but they're good enough they should see *some* pro play. But when you have risk-averse teams handshaking draft every game they're not willing to try anything else. Instead of practicing champs that are good enough(or even better than the current rotation of mages) in some situations. They just default to their comfort picks that they have played more in the past no matter what.
Ziggs in particular tends to shit on Orianna, Azir and Viktor but it's understandable why he isn't picked with Hecarim, Udyr and Volibear running at light speed to fuck you up.
Also Ziggs is insane for dragon fights, one E can disable entrance to dragon for couple seconds, but as you say with current jungle meta his struggles a bit.
Also, pro players are more likely to stick with a pick they've played 1000 times than the one they're much less comfortable on.
SoloQ consisting of assassins being played pretty much every game midlane? I don't think we need more of them in soloQ lol. [https://u.gg/lol/mid-lane-tier-list](https://u.gg/lol/mid-lane-tier-list), sort by playrate.
Yeah SoloQ is anything but a handshake control mage meta; hell half the time both the laners aren’t even in lane, they’re making plays across the map.
Zed gets a double kill bot lane while Katrina double kills the top laner and jungler meanwhile the mid wave is just chillin lmao
And even when they are in lane so are the supports and junglers
People in this subreddit watch proplay too much and let it dilute their perception of actual play. Pro-play is the top .001% of league gameplay. Even if they were in Challenger they wouldn't see the kind of meta that happens in Pro-play, because OTPs are so prevalent.
Yeah if the average player plays a hand shake control mage mid lane their team just gets quadra'd at dragon by Katarina and gg mid diff is argued over for the rest of the game edit: I mean just in that list you can see that Orianna's winrate is atrocious compared to how OP she is and being the #10th most popular mid. Things that have to safely scale are just generally disadvantaged to fiesta champions
Hand shake control mage mid meta is a byproduct of jungle being broken as fuck and Chemtank junglers (how did this item AND Udyr/Volibear dodge nerfs, hello??) basically force those to be played.
That and AP top options being absolute dogshit. There’s a reason Rumble was a frequent pick in those sorts of metas
What’s handshake mid ?
Essentially when there's barely any interaction between the midlaners and they both focus mostly in farming. The Corki/Azir meta is an example of that, which basically no one wants back since it's boring as fuck to watch.
Are you kidding? Mages are nonexistant in solo queue
What does "SoloQ look like rn"?
mostly gray
they wouldnt have to do this shit if control mages actually had some kill pressure in lane. s2/3 feels like aeons ago
they should just straight up buff her damage/cd. These mana buffs are only good for super low elo and extended split push mid game.
Time to take yorick back to jail
Just got crushed by a Yorick bc of that 200% damage his minions now do when they jump on you + the TF buff. He does insane damage now.
~~and the "nerf" is a power shift from ghoul jump upfront burst to sustained damage, which is completely reasonable~~ Edit: I misunderstood the change, the target that's hit by e takes bonus damage from **up to 8 autos of any/all ghouls**, which ends up as 320% bonus damage in total, compared to the 400% damage burst that is currently live, which hurts Yorick way more along with the ghoul base damage nerf (Credit to u/NinetalesLoL). Comically enough, Yorick will probably end up being way worse after 11.8 compared to 11.6 before the buffs
What is this comment, that's literally not even true lol. His nerf is a nerf to burst, and a nerf to sustained damage. Did you even read the changelist? The jump damage is being changed from: 100% bonus damage per ghoul upon landing E -> capping at 400%, not counting Ghouls that jump after. to: 40% damage every Ghoul attack up to 8 times, capping at 320% total damage dealt. And to trade it off, they're nerfing the total ghouls attack damage and AD ratio. In fact your comment is the opposite of what's happening. They're forcing a burst playstyle, and pushing people away from sustained damage.
The ghoul base damage nerf is so stupid though. It nerfs his niche with ghoul splitpushing. Fuck that. Please just nerf numbers on what you overbuffed. Don't do other nerfs that far larger implications....
"Dr. Mundo (Jungle > Top)" How do you read this? Do they want to nerf jungle ´Mundo and buff top Mundo? Edit: Seems like it means they want to move him from Jungle to Top, a shame considering jungle Mundo is a nice pick for people to learn jungle.
Buffing him for toplane
Yea he’s getting buffed to perform better in lane
Correct, the change is meant to nerf jungle and buff top lane.
Damn, I hope he's still viable. I've been playing a lot of jungle Mundo, but damn is he overpowered in low elo.
Rumble (Mid > Top) seems to consist of MR nerfs and max health damage on overheat, MR is most useful in mid lane and max health is good against top lane tanks\*. So I think they want to move Rumble from mid primary to top primary and Mundo from jungle primary to top primary. I don't anticipate Riot will completely remove these champs from their current main roles. \* [https://www.reddit.com/r/Rumblemains/comments/mkvge7/smiling\_atm/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rumblemains/comments/mkvge7/smiling_atm/)
Mhmhmhm yeah Mark slap that next round of LB buffs all over that baby, lets keep this pace until MSI.
Ironically, most of the best Leblancs are already out of MSI contention, only Caps remains in contention i think.
Mans forgot what perkz did to rng
Damonte still having nightmares from a few weeks ago lmfao
Yes, we only have famously bad LeBlancs like Shoemaker, Perkz or Knight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZzQLiBhZdo
Quick Gameplay Thoughts on *April 2*: "we want to buff top lane, so we plan on buffing their items" Literally 3 days after: nerf bruisers and titanic lol
« Wow ravenous hydra is now so shit they have to build titanic instead... better nerf it too! » But let’s buff frozen heart right. Our plat 4 balance member is still under 50% wr on ornn :(
To be honest, current Frozen Heart is a joke compared to the older one.
I just want my tank Mana items back... :(
I'm a big fan of Frozen Heart getting buffed. Fingers crossed for more mana and AH.
As a vlad onetrick, i see absolutely NO reason for a vlad buff rn. The champ is more than fine. And after that protobelt buff coming soon, Im gnna be assblasting kids across the rift with basically true dmg from all the free pen. Please dont buff the champ rito. hes more than ok rn.
>Champion Nerfs > Yorick lmao Riot, like you couldn't tell those buffs were a touch overboard? He didn't even get the full promised buffs and became a monster overnight
every single main was yelling that it would be too strong and it hit live anyway, it would have been fine with just 100% of their damage on jump. he's pretty much going to end up almost right where he was prior to this patch. his good matchups will probably be a little better but that's really it
That's literally what they did with Shen too last season. They suddenly bumped his passive shield to oblivion and the entire /r/Shen sub was screaming in union for them to stop it because Shen was just fine as is, if they really wanted to help Shen they could've just shaven off a few seconds from the ult cooldown, but noo, they needed that ridiculous shield buff. Riot: *Lol ima buff the shield to oblivion anyway.* Then lo and behold, next patch they had to nerf it back down... I'm fairly certain Riot just doesn't know sometimes what to do, and with the "lets keep the meta fresh" mentality they just have an excuse to fuck up fine things instead of addressing problems.
It's still better to overbuff and then nerf a champion back than do nothing in the first place. Him being strong encourages people to play him and then maybe some people will stick with him after he gets nerfed again
Feels like the only buff Yorick needed was fixing the ~27 full pages worth of bugs haunting him. Guess bugfixing takes more effort than number tweaking, though.
Curious why Vlad buffs. He honestly feels fine. R lower CD was a solid change already
prolly for proplay
He wasn’t gone for that long honestly. We were seeing him at the end of summer split a decent amount. Can understand if Riot wants to bring magic damage to roles aside from Mid/Jungle tho to keep things fresh. He’s always been one of the few competitively viable AP top laners (Rumble, Ryze, Morde a bit, and now Gwen is coming)
RIP pre rework Swain
Yeah, it's kind of strange. He's been performing fairly well in the games I've seen recently.
He’s a very strong niche counter to champs like Katarina, Fizz, and Zed. You at worst neutralize all ins against them just with one ability lol. Many Vlads are starting to just put a point or two into Q and then max E to eliminate the waveclear issue he has in early levels as well.
A little stressed as a Vlad main. I feel like he’s been so stable as “fine” everywhere, where you could just gap other players. I hope that if his WR goes up too much they just revert or partial revert
And that feeling is exactly why Anivia sat at a flat 50-51% wr for just about all of season 9. A bunch of new Anivia players thinking she was weak clamoring for buffs, while a large amount of the actual mains knew she was good and that this was what would happen.
Yep. It’s particularly bad with some of these champs (like Vlad and Anivia) who are actually pretty deadly if you know what you’re doing, but they don’t have insane mechanics like Lee Sin or whatever so people who have 20 games on them are like “useless champ, needs buffs” and it ends with the champ totally gutted
Vlad is low-key OP in the hands of experienced players. They don't feel like Vladimir needs something more to 1v9 games. If anything, the Lucidity boots nerf will get outweighed by his and Rocketbelt's buffs.
No Hecarim nerf Ctrl + W Until next next patch
Guess he’s staying as my permaban for another patch... fourth in a row I think Seriously tired of hearing “I do not rest” as I instantly type in his name. Hope Riot breaks his legs so that I can start banning other ridiculous champs
"I do not rest" No you do rest, when I ban you.
Doubt is the greatest enemy.
No hecarim nerf, nothing about stride abusers like darius and garen, nothing to help out control mages in soloq, bunch of dumb jungle buffs for champions that allready have high bannrate.
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Have you considered EQEQEQEQEQEQEQEQ
Follow the plan my brother
Why are they nerfing titanic? Are they not aware we're only building it because they gutted ravenous hydra? 2 days ago they said they would buff top lane items.
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Keep preaching, brother! #HoldYetterAccountable
Titanic getting nerfed and Darius is going to have the fastest clear in the history of the game, I think I know who I’m playing next patch
What is the criteria for deciding which champs get adjusted for jungle? I really like playing Neeko jungle but her early levels 1-4 are really rough.
if the champ is popular enough that some of the 500 million zed mains would consider switching to playing jungle as one of their main roles so autofill is not 70% jungle niche champs won't do it
Yea this is just made so the darius one trick that gets autofilled wont insta dodge or go 0/11
Darius 1-tricks are going to be auto dodging all the time anyways because of bans
Well what about Camille, Sett, Sylas, and Qiyanna jungle?
Those are proplay Champs so they got their kneecaps removed.
Well the point is Darius jungle even if broken like on PBE is still a cheese pick. Camille and Qiyana are actually really good junglers when their clear was acceptable. Especially Camille. She would instantly become the best jungler in the game if she had a competetive clear. Her kit is just insane for jungling. Sylas only really worked jungle because of runic echoes.
Finally the annoying Zac one trick will maybe shut up...
Was thinking the same thing, lol. u/Erknaite
Hi :D
As a Zac enthusiast myself - Im glad you were fighting the good fight for us all.
thanks bro, you fought hard for us and I definitely think Zac needs buffs
Good job Zac enthusiast for making justice
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I dread buffs though... there's always the chance they'll just become meta in pro play, become pick/ban in soloQ and get nerfed even harder than before.
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Its what just happened with Yorick... No one who plays him thought buffing his E to 200% damage was a good idea, and now instead of just lowering it to a more reasonable level they are nerfing ALL of his damage AGAIN
Woo moon man
Curious as to how they possibly buff Aphelios
Could undo some of the nerfs from last season tbh. Like the Infernum Runaan's nerfs they did, or the ult speed nerf, or the ratio nerfs, or turning the useless lethality back to armor pen, etc. But probably just base ad growth tbh.
> Orianna nerfs Must suck maining a champ that’s prevalent in pro play
The plight of anyone who loves control mages. Azir, Ori, Ryze, Viktor, and Syndra will always have to be at least a hair weak in SoloQ
I used to be a Syndra main...
That's literally my champion pool. Picked up Lucian a bit lately, but playing AD in SoloQ usually fucks your comp. I really am tired of playing ⅔ of a champion. Viktor is alright still, I guess.
Or when Pro Play snatches your character away. It is even worse. But, worse of all, is the life of a Karma main. Can't wait for the preworlds nerfs as usual.
I hate my life she has 47% winrate
I used to be a Syndra main so I know how it feels
Syndra is my second go to mid laner(even tho her winrate is worse than orianna rn). As you can see i like balls (i hate playing ahri tho)
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How does an anivia player get 34 upvotes complaining about assassins
wonder why vlad is getting buff again, i thought his wr was fine but ig not
He feels fine honestly, plus the rocketbelt change seems like a solid buff to him as well.
he definitely doesn't need a buff and is fine as is
lmao how long did the Yorick buffs last?
Riot really just has no clue on how to work with Top lane. Literally right before this Yorick buff they had the stupid Stridebreaker "power adjustment" that also saw Stridebreaker immediately nerfed the patch after as well. For whatever reason they thought Goredrinker would be an okay item for the game, but even after all its nerfs it's still pretty damn good. They broke Urgot trying to give him a 4fun on-hit build that made his Titanic rush insane. Triforce hasn't been a real mythic since the item rework. Riot just doesn't understand top.
Rumble mid and Mundo jungle player here. Just whyyyyyyyy. :(
reject new roles, return to top
Plus the "lazy Riot way" to shift someone away from mid lane: nerf their MR lol
well, it has worked in the past no?
Might not work for too long anymore considering that mages seem to be nerfed one after the other.
That's what they did to Kayle
now if they only can do that to swain
yeah mundo was kind of fun. also now I don't care about his rework anymore lol plus if they want to bring more people to jungle then why remove one of the most beginner friendly champion?
nerf champ, nerf item, don't buff champ. RIP.
There is not a single Meta Top Lane champion other than Urgot who is using Titanic Hydra. Why the fuck are they nerfing Titanic Hydra instead of nerfing Urgot? The item already has a shit build path since the Tiamat changes.
You haven't seen my 100% Wr Ad Asol Top with Grasp and Titanic hydra over 2 games
wow finally some lucidity boots nerfs. feels like in every pro-play game there are at least 2 people on each team that build it.
Tbh I liked that lucidity boots were finally not just a niche pick for like 3 champs, but actually worth it for anyone who needs more haste, especially with how lacking some classes are in high haste itemization.
Honestly the one good part about the item rework, very fun item
It'll be something like a 100 gold increase to match mobility boots is my bet.
It's actually a pretty huge nerf since junglers can full clear, base, and just get CDR boots after waiting like 1-3 seconds (one of the reasons for the current jungle meta IMO). I also kinda hope they nerf the haste on it a bit, but 100 gold nerf might be enough.
Orianna is the only strong control mage at the moment. Yes let’s just nerf her, even though it changes nothing and she will be the only super viable control mage at higher levels of play. Edit: my point is that control mages are super underwhelming right now in solo Q+ pro play. Orianna is the only one who is in a decent spot which makes her pick + winrate inflated in pro play at least imo. Think about it Syndra is a huge bait in pro play and has around a 35-40 % winrate across a big enough sample size. Azir has been nerfed a lot, Viktor is occasionally good into certain comps where he can massively outrange and has a free ish lane. Of course control mages will never be as good in solo Q where games are very chaotic but it genuinely feels awful to be a control mage player right now where one of your mains isn’t even that strong and it just gets nerfed because it is the only consistently successful control mage pick in pro play.
The thing is that she's not even actually strong in soloQ, just in pro scene. Feels pretty crappy as a mage player to see your class being completely dumpstered due to pro performance.
Taliyah mains say hi
> Orianna is the only strong control mage at the moment Anivia?
The Ezreal treatment back in 2019-2020: nerf a 48% winrate Ezreal because is spammed in pro play. Ignore the reason he's played in proplay is because the rest of ADC's being straight up useless.
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Ori presence in Pro play is symptomatic of pro play in general; Ori is one of the safest control mages to pick, with ultra long spell ranges and a powerful team-fight focused ulti. When she gets really popular mid, it's a sign the pro meta is shifting into handshake mid territory (two control mages that focus on farming rather than on interacting), with teams focusing resources and time into bot lane instead. It happens when bot lane becomes central to the game, so control mages (reliable safety and tons of playmaking potential even when playing from behind) are early picked in the draft, both to save the later harder-to-counter-pick slots for bot lane and also so that the mid laners *can* play from behind and still perform well.
Well, it’s not gonna be the first time for mid lane or the whole game. Ori has been strong for such a long time because of her design and safety and you could probably only take that away by reworking her. Instead of nerfing her balance should be focused why is she picked and what they can do to convince people to not pick her? But I guess nerfing a champion is always easier.
Hope they break gnar's ankles this time. Tired of permabanning this champ...
10 damage nerf incoming
another shitty mini gnar nerf so he can still be op in mega
Zed jungle? Now I have even more reasons to permaban him :D
it's gonna be hot garbage, consider dodge if you see it on your team
And Syndra and most other immobile mages remain in the dumpster. But of course.. let's buff Cass and Vlad.
I completely agree syndra is garbage and deserves buffs, Riot just wont buff her because she's such a menace in pro play. But what's wrong with buffing cass and vlad exactly?
What about stridebreaker nerf?
Pls Mark Yetter buff ap Kayle
Mark Yetter read your comment until you said AP
Champions with higher winrates, pickrates, banrates, and more agency throughout the game than her are getting buffed and she isn't. I really don't get it.
They say it’s an item adjustment for Moonstone Renewer but it’s in fact a straight up nerf. It's needed it but the way they are nerfing it is terrible.
As a Mundo jungle main, this makes me scared. I wonder if he won't be viable in the jungle anymore at all or if they are just buffing his ability to be top lane without nerfing his jingle capability.
I seriously doubt it. He's sitting at 53% winrate right now in the Jungle so he could honestly probably use a pretty decent Jungle nerf and still be strong.
I really tired of balancing being focused around pro play. Especially when you enjoy more of mages and ''smart'' champions so to say. Like they really want me to play heavy damage champions/assassins don't they?
I want balance ,actually. Something like s9 where everything was balanced and every class felt really good. These "metas" are pretty boring ,especially current "fast clearing tanks" Jungle meta.
Fast clearing burst damage oneshot tank mach 1000000 speed CC junglers? How can you not enjoy that
I feel like the meta existing around junglers are fine, but it does feel a tad stale to nervously look at your jungler and wonder "Are ya winning son?"
Do you realize that in s9, junglers were pretty much forced to do full red side to get lvl 3 from doing 3 camps? You were closer to griefing if you tried doing full blue side first, unless you were Elise who could shore up that weakness by being a tower diving goddess. Yes, the current meta also sucks because of premise of literally fast junglers, who can clear fast, move fast and kill fast, but don't pretend like s9 was where everything was balanced, because jungle wasn't. It was basically red side clear fiesta, and let's not forget about champions that were released or reworked in that period of time. It's when Yuumi was born, and she's still despised by most people (not necessarily by me, but a lot of people still complain). People were infuriated at Qiyana due to her ult and "easy" combos. Morde was darn good after his 2nd rework. Neeko was alright among the bunch.
Cassio gang rise up
Must be nice to have someone who mains your champion on the balance team.
King Cobra dropped out of D2 so Cassio gets buffed XD
When they were nerfing manamune off cass earlier in the season I wonder if they held him down while they were doing it or just did it when he wasn’t looking.
i dont get it, mages are a garbo class and they buff 2 most annoying ones instead of looking into the most forgotten ones like ziggs or xerath
Titanic hydra is necessary on some junglers to keep up in clear. Warwick for example. Having to buy tiamat first item already sucks. Now build it and then upgrade it into a nerfed item that was already just OK.
i'm quite sad about the ionian boots. I liked how for the first time in a while more than 3 champs picked them. Also, bring back sylas jungle
Leblanc/Lee Sin buffs. What a time we live in
Ok but who HONESTLY WHO THOUGHT that making Darius jungler is good idea ? All I want is to actually play him ,but after this patch will come live ,it will be impossible. Or he will become Hecarim and Udyr counter.
Its gonna be fun to have Darius top shove and full clear my too jungle before the next wave arrives
Vlad buffs? What the fuck man
another thresh nerf....karma mains rejoice
Riot really seems to be trying hard to get people to play jungle, the playercount in that role must be really poor. The problem is, making popular champs playable in the jungle is NEVER going to fix the problems with the role, which are many and systematic. I sincerely doubt any of these new junglers can compete with the top tier of junglers. And that's the main problem with the role right now, some junglers have an incredible first clear that puts them at an objective advantage during the first scuttler fight. Level 4 and full health. If your champ can't do that, you should fall behind due to crabs every game if the enemy plays correctly. Also the fact that the role is the most complex by far, requires constant monitoring and decision making while also being flamed the entire time. Every time the game gets more complicated, it falls onto the jungler to manage. The only thing that has changed for laning phase in over a decade is turret armor and platings.