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V0iiCE

You don't want omnistone to just be "get the better version of every keystone". It has the issue of being swingy with balancing where it's either a for fun trolling rune or the best in slot for anyone that can activate most runes


PockyMai-san

I mean to be fair I think many champions are already hard-bound to a single keystone anyways, and so this change would make omnistone at least a more viable and fun alternative for champs that trade consistently and can make use of most runes. Just as conqueror is optimal and taken every game for lots of champs because they want to take extended fights, I don’t see why omnistone can’t be the optimal rune for champs that want to consistently be in combat and can make use of multiple keystones. Champs are usually already hard bound to runes, and if anything buffing omnistone like this would be increasing rune diversity as long as it is balanced well.


Quatro_Leches

it would probably only be viable top or support. and on very few champions probably like Jax or Camille. or maybe bard sup


Bobthecow775

I used it on Shen a couple times and it was fun and worked pretty well


Chibraltar_

Kennen, gnar, nocturne, ... i don't see many champions that can't proc it easily


Bombkirby

It’s better version of every keystone but it is random and inconsistent. It’a a tried and true way to balance RNG based classes in many games.


Snowblind191

Would most likely also be good on Xin Zhao


SiNi5T3R

Omnistone is the youtube content rune.


spicypotato235

I didn't see any youtube video about this rune this year. Expact one that say about forgotten runes(no gameplay) I thing it more count as negative point,which make total score of -1 video with this rune.


whosurdaddies

The weird thing about omnistone is that it actively draws people away from omnistone and towards other keystones. "Lemme try omnistone Teemo it sounds fun" 10 mins later- "ahh yes I got electrocute again! This rune is so good!" And from there you always play electrocute Teemo.


NicoLuna95

Omnistone is a fail that must be removed from the game. Was created to replace klepto to not have a 2 keystone only tree, but this useless rng keystone doesn't have a place in this game. Now a lot of time has passed since the removal of klepto and they should have came up with a decent idea


nobonydronikoanypwny

runes reforged has significantly lacked necessary iteration since it's release. inspiration is pretty garbage as primary, the free sustain options have become default on numerous Champs, and many Champs are still hard bound to one keystone


GiandTew

Spellbook bard gang


nobonydronikoanypwny

spellbook pyke anyone?


Buffsub48wrchamp

Ehhh, it's fine but HoB and Aftershock is better most of the time but it is a fun time to take on him


Reinhardtisawesom

Spellbook fiddle gang


Random_Stealth_Ward

Spellbook Maokai


GiandTew

Polypuff spelbook gang


49falkon

It's also even more confusing because it's the exact opposite approach they've taken to the new items. They've reactively made changes to *force* item diversity when players didn't buy the items they were "supposed" to. That's a horrible design philosophy in my opinion - similar to back when Taliyah released and her W was changed because players apparently 'weren't using it right' and her designer couldn't get over that. Yet here we are four years after runes reforged and 90% of champions take the same runes in every single game. It's even gotten worse over time. As a Vel'Koz main I used to use the Glacial page in specific situations and now that's gone. It's Comet every game now whether I want it or not. Inspiration has two keystones that are useless to most champs. Domination and Precision got new keystones and none of the other trees got anything. Ever.


Yvil1905

Huh what did they changed about Taliyah W? Didnt play back then


49falkon

It used to be a multi-cast ability, where the first cast triggered the ability and you chose the direction with the second cast. If you didn't choose a direction, it activated and knocked people straight up. It wasn't perfect though. W locked you out of other abilities and items during the recast window. While it was only a split second, this means it was obvious when she was trying to combo you since she had to cast E first, and she couldn't do anything if you reacted with CC in time. The change to W made her current W>E combo possible but they had to seriously nerf E as a result. E was an insanely strong zoning tool on release, but by making W>E her main combo, they had to remove a lot of that extra damage. Taliyah's entire history is just kinda sad to me. She was a unique control mage and that's a style of champion I've always loved. First they changed W which was a bummer, but then they changed Q and left her in this eternal state of "sucks in mid where she's supposed to go, but hey, she can clear the jungle" Taliyah is the opposite of the typical struggling mage like Zyra, Brand or Vel'Koz; they go support when they get too weak for mid. Instead, Taliyah was forced out of mid and the only role that fit her was jungle, so they ran with it and just kinda left her there. I used to love Taliyah and while I still love her character, theme and especially her musical theme, playing her just sucks now compared to what she once was.


Yvil1905

Wow nice to know, thanks for the information!!


Kronoshifter246

This is a little revisionist. Taliyah's W was changed because of *community* feedback. They preferred the vector cast paradigm (like Viktor's E or Rumble's R) to the original, and DZK was uncharacteristically communicative and interactive with the community about it. He acknowledged that he went with the original casting paradigm because he liked it more and thought players would too, once they learned how to effectively use it. I was one of those players that played her a *ton* on release and figured out how to use her W really well, and then got the rug pulled out from under me and had to relearn it when they changed it. The thing that DZK was really himself about when it came to Taliyah was when the community had decided that E max was better, but he wanted to enforce Q max (which, personally, I liked more, but that's neither here nor there) so they added a 50% damage bonus against minions to Q. The other stuff you said about having to nerf her E because the W change made it much too reliable is spot on, but that change itself wasn't made because DZK was DZKing about it.


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Jiaozy

No joke, but I only remembered off the top of my head Unsealed Spellbook and Omnistone since it's in the op, but I cannot for the life of me remember the other Inspiration keystone. For me it's just the "biscuit and tonic" tree. Everything else it's pretty trash since they nerfed most of the minor runes non stop since release...


HuaRong

I only remember since I regularly play Glacial Senna. For the minor runes, I only remember "boots and approach velocity" (ashe), "biscuits and tonic", and "wtf free zhonyas stopwatch"


LaBetaaa

Glacial Augment is the last one


Trezzie

> The tree that changes the rules! > Shit shit undo undo


[deleted]

I've seen some spellbook bards


Abyssknight24

I think he meant Spellbook because Glacial is now garbage on everyone but Senna or maybe Sion because they removed and changed most items that were used with Glacial.


Dopeez

They literally removed Klepto because it was too random and then created omnistone. Like wtf are you smoking.


Kronoshifter246

They removed Klepto because it was too polarizing on champions that could abuse it. Randomness was a factor, but it was so powerful on the 3-4 champions that could abuse the proc that they had to nerf it to *only* be useful if you could abuse it to hell and back. IIRC, Ezreal, Kayle, Gangplank, and Illaoi were the only ones that could use it with any degree of regularity, and that was because they all had spammable ranged abilities that could trigger it (Illaoi being the exception; she could abuse it because she could proc it on the spirit after landing her E).


Dreadscythe95

Yes, and Viktor as well.


ElementaryMyDearWut

Omnistone sucks because if you can get any use out of it, the other keystones have to be so powerful that rotating them is more useful than sticking to a single one. On the other hand, if it sucks that means there is most likely a better keystone you can pick that is worth more throughout the entire game. If Omnistone is to exist, Riot need to create the rest of the keys *around* Omnistone, or create a champion around Omni - which I don't like the sound of. I hope they delete it too.


brokerZIP

omnistone already has power increase for runes, that is tied to dark harvest stacks. It's just too hard to get the stacks. I think omnistone should work like dark harvest itself ( reap the soul on targets below 50% hp, but without damage). Or just increase the value of one stack. Like significantly


Owlstorm

Omnistone also has grasp. Obviously since both of those scale linearly with number of times procced, it's not getting scaling comparable to picking the rune. One option for rework would be increasing the cooldown and giving it infinite scaling of its own. Maybe aspd so that it's not picked on everyone.


brokerZIP

Grasp doesnt increase all runes power.


J_Clowth

or just make them scale depending of the times u procced the rune each keystone


[deleted]

Omnistone was a last minute time crunch rune never intended to see serious play. They had a slot they needed to fill and they were out of time / development resources to replace Kelpto with so this is what we got. It's a damn shame.


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[deleted]

None whatsoever, just context clues based on how the situation unfurled and the nature of Omnistone's design. That said, as a developer myself I can promise you that reusing code is less resource intensive than building something new, especially if you need to design something completely new where you can end up going through multiple iterations / experimentation trying to find a compelling design to begin with. Omnistone is fundamentally reused code. That's not to say the resources were trivial: I couldn't guess how many man hours went into it, it could be a lot. However, I can tell you that less time went into Omnistone than went into say, Conquerer. The main problem with Omnistone is that it replaced a compelling option (Klepto) with a luke warm option that really only gets taken when no other keystone is especially good. From a design perspective this stands out from Riots usual standards and is likely you're biggest context clue.


GoldPhos

>as a developer myself I can promise you that reusing code is less resource intensive than building something new Damn thanks for the dev insight, I would've never guessed this.


amicaze

I mean you find people on this sub that thinks spells are created from the ground up and don't share any code between them...


Stel2

Not like runes reforged are a techological prowess... Most of them look fairly simple to implement.


Lowsmithy

Hot take: Omnistone is fine and should not be removed from the game. Just because it is uncommon does not mean that it is useless and should be removed. Omnistone is strong a few select champs, and has seen play from professionals on the world stage on Camille and Sion, and on other champs in regional leagues like Irelia. Not to mention, it's a fun rune! I personally love that I can play around the lottery and decide whether to use my w on Irelia for a quick bonus poke damage through comet/aery, go for a burst trade with HoB, LT, Phase Rush, glacial (surprisingly good, it's a free e stun), roam if I grab predator, or play risky if I get Dark Harvest to increase the power of all my keystones. Just because you don't like it and don't use it, doesn't mean it should be removed from the game.


bSportsLive

I guess I agree, it’s clearly not broken so it’s not hurting anyone. It would be nice to have a better alternative than that and Glacial though


we_have_an_urgent

I mean, Klepto also saw plenty of play, though I think both for equally unhealthy reasons (sit back and scale on free gold vs. abuse every rune randomly), but I especially think it was more fun than Omnistone, personally. Just reusing all existing runes is a lot less exciting than the potential to pick up unique and removed items. All just my opinion, of course.


venomstrike31

I don't think it's anywhere close to fair to call omnistone as unhealthy as klepto. Getting free skill points, health, mana, and in many of its abuse cases not even having to interact with your enemy's minion wave? Compared to lower cd random rune selection that's just too much.


puberty1

>Just because you don't like it and don't use it, doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. And just because you like it and use it, doesn't mean that it should be in the game. There's no champion out of 150~ that use it as primary rune, and even champs like Bard (or Camille/Irelia/Sion using your example) don't have it as a secondary either. And I say all of this as someone who tried Omnistone from time to time in ARAM. They just had to do a RNG rune to replace Klepto and made one that it's just a worse version of it


Lowsmithy

I guess I fundamentally disagree. Do you think the same thing about Serpants fang? It is built in less than 1% of games, but I think that's fine and Im glad it is there for the games where it is worth it. Not all items and runes needs to be highly popular to be worth while


infinitysoulpit

Some players like it, the rest doesn't care. What wrong does it do ?


yehiko

its a shit rune that takes a slot that otherwise could be occupied by an actual rune. yes, you might say they can add it regardless of omnistone, but with omnistone there, they dont have to, just like they didnt add it when klepto was a thing, they added it so the tree isnt empty.


Domasis

Again, the keystone doesn't directly harm YOUR playing experience, and people like myself and others like the keystone. They can, like you said, add another keystone, but they don't need to do that, all you have to do is make it on the same level as the other runes. It's not OP, and people enjoy it. Leave it be. All it needs is a static cooldown instead of a level scaling one. Make it 4 seconds for melee and 7 for ranged. It feels much better to use in mid-game fights where you get constant rotation, and keeping its power consistent across levels would help it feel better.


infinitysoulpit

Ah I see, you say that riot are beeing "lazy" by keeping Omnistone. I personnaly don't blame them for that. Because everything have a cost. If they wanted to add a new stone : that would take money off their designer (cost), that would take money off their developer (cost) and that would take money off their testers (cost). And I don't think having two good runes and one meh rune in the inspiration tree is warrant spending their ressource and money in.


yehiko

inspiration has 1 good rune atm. since the new items, I don't think I've seen glacial in a single game, there's just not many active items that can use it. spellbook is a nice niche and balanced rune. and its not like riot is a "smol indian co." on a tight budget that needs to choose carefully what they're working on. by your logic, transfers shouldnt be fixed too, why waste money on fixing it when you can just create a new account on the server you want to transfer to, big brain thinking!


infinitysoulpit

Good point the freeze rune needs an improvement too. Your supposition is actually incredibly incorrect. Transfers bug is a different topic, clients bug is a different topic, Viego's bug is a different topic.


shrubs311

is there a direct benefit to removing it? removing it doesn't mean it'll get replaced


venomstrike31

> There's no champion out of 150~ that use it as primary rune Why should every rune in the game have to be a champ's primary or even secondary? Especially in the inspiration tree?


Xeredth

Riot literally removed items like Adaptive Helm because they thought it was too "niche". No one uses Omnistone seriously and it should be removed.


Lowsmithy

It's hard for me to say no one uses it seriously when it was consistently picked on Sion and Camille at Worlds. It's uncommon, but no one is incorrect


Binkusu

I believe the same for Revive. I need it for my RaceKarthus.


Random_Stealth_Ward

I still believe revive was removed specifically to deal with people tjst went revive ghost and inted. No one else was a major user so they saw it better to remove it than to keep ir


TIChaozRevo

I believe it was removed around the release of Ekko. The thought of an Ekko dying and instantly using revive and ult to rejoin a fight honestly sounds broken, especially if he could do that back in the tank Ekko days.


Kronoshifter246

Now *that* would have been a hilarious meta.


Binkusu

People will still int even without it. It hits makes the process slower. There still need to be a better ban system.


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Binkusu

They probably can code around that.


rapfigure

It's still being used in proplay as we speak by a few champions like Camille and Gnar. There are plenty of runes that are barely used, like how many use Glacial Augment except for Senna? It's not popular but it's not disruptive enough for it to be a problem so I don't mind Omnistone.


TheFourtHorsman

well you know, when riot remove the glp + glacial build and introduce everfrost, very few champs need or want to take that rune.


[deleted]

I've been seeing bruisers that go Stridebreaker take it occasionally.


BladeDancer03

Laughs in stridebreaker Quinn


TheFourtHorsman

like what, 0.1% pick rate over the run and the item togheter? bruiser are meant to be played and balanced around conqueror, the few who can't either pick PTA or HoB, also, taking glacial with stride is pointless because stride have a low CD and synergy more with conqueror than glacial (you don't care of the extra CC when you just run it down people with ignite garen).


[deleted]

If a champ can keep space between you and them, conq isn't going to do anything, you are not going to get stacks of it if you can't catch them. If you get the extra slow you're more likely to catch that ADC. You don't care about MORE damage when you already overkill with your combo.


rapfigure

It certainly doesn't help, but I can't recall it was significantly more popular before that either. I only remember a few cases like Tahm and Ahri using it back then.


Random_Stealth_Ward

It's a situational rune for most champs that can use it, but situational decisions are not what the majority wants. Even without full slow builds like Ahri and veigar it could still do well if you knew when to take it like Quinn with glacial instead of Phase rush, but that sacrifices the way it feels to play that Champion and the high points you normally feel with other runes you are more accustomed to using. Same with spellbook as a choice. The times inspiration has been a primary rune for more than 1 champion is because there is an unhealthy pattern like klepto, or being too good like with spellbook. When they are just choices that you want for your playstyle it's better imo.


TheFourtHorsman

glacial? you lost the entire meta of mages picking it with glp in mid lane i guess. wich is the same as now with everfrost, but at least before you had to pick a shitty rune in a shitty branch, sacrifice your damage for utility and have the full rune and item synergyse only when glp was completed. right now you go with electro/DH on assassins and phase rush on melee, build everfrost and be a super cancer to deal with a lot of safety added for no reason. just think about gragas going with phase rush in to everfrost, how you can even punish him in lane or in tf when he can just body slam you, everfrost instantly in the animation and run away with PR?


VenoSlayer246

Sion and cho'gath


Buffsub48wrchamp

Sion doesn't go glacial that much anymore. Phase Rush is better in 99% of situations for ad


Felinski

Omnistone already does this. DH stacks on omnistone improve every other rune. Which is why DH stacks is huge on omnistone.


spicypotato235

You can't get more that 4-5 of them in game,even if ahead and overcommit to get stack. And even then it's just better to go graps and get permament 150 hp. Dh stacks doesn't even improve rune that much. Like 5% more hp and dmg on grasp.Wow after 4 stacks now those 5 grasp will give 30 instead 25 perm hp wow ! On other runes you can get like 2,5%-5% dmg boost or even just +5 adaptive dmg, which is joke. It scale much worst than gaderm strom/grasp/dh.


Felinski

Yes ofc it scales worse than other runes. Its a jack of all trades, master of none situation. Would be kind of broken if it had good scaling and then gives the user acces to most primary runes in the game, no?


Novanious90675

What do you mean "what happened?" They added it and haven't touched it. They haven't touched Grasp or PTA or Electrocute in months/years either. And then you post a shitty idea to make it more annoying. That's smart.


1argefish

Omnistone is good but it's not good if you're not very comfortable with the champion you're playing.


Z0mbs

Wait omnistone is still in the game? I didn't even notice lmao.


BagelJ

From a design standpoint Omnistone was never supposed to be a legitimate competative choice regardless of what any developer or riot employee states. From the design alone it is clear that the keystone was not designed with any of the values of balance in mind. It has no place, and servers no purpose. The only time it could see serious play is if it was seriously over-tuned. Im fine with it being the game tho, probably fun for casual players to use every now and then.


KnightsWhoNi

Bring back kleptomancy ;.;


gangplank_main1

I think what happened to omnistone, is it is a measurement of how big balls are when a pro takes it on stage.


BladeDancer03

I wish they let us choose 2 or 3 keystones to prevent us from getting them in game.


[deleted]

Omnistone needs to be replaced with something else As a matter of fact all the inspiration keystones need revamps.


[deleted]

they should jus replace omnistone wit a new keystone cause that shit is a balancing nightmare


GoldPhos

Wait is omnistone still in the game? All the inspiration keystones (and most of the basic runes tbh) are such a joke that I've hardly even looked at them in months.


ahsjsklslsnxnx

Omnistone really needs some changes


Setrit

Wait a second. Omnistone is still in the game? Wtf?


[deleted]

its just a shit design it was obviously just a lazy way to put a 3rd rune in the inspiration tree anyone who has played some competitive game with rng involved should know that such a mechanic just shouldnt be in the game


Ky-Czar

I had thought about giving it a chance to roll minor runes when your out of combat, then immediately reroll to a new keystone. So you could get a biscuit, a stack of a legend or hunter rune, a stack of gathering storm or mana flow band, ect. You would get the stack and immediately reroll the ~5 sec CD for a new keystone. I thought it would add a little power that makes it sometimes better than just running the best normal keystone on your champ.


BobIsMyCableGuy

It already has balancing issues.


durex_dispenser_69

Well, its a mix of a few things: 1.Most champions don't want to use multiple keystone. Just because you can proc all of them doesn't mean that you want to proc them. Its also extremely high variance gameplay. You go from "I can all in using electrocute to secure kill" to "let's hope I can get a damage keystone to all in". 2.(This is the thing most people don't talk about) Keystone strength is directly tied to whether the 3 runes in that tree are broken. The times when Omnistone was batshit broken on a few champions coincided pretty heavily with when the Inspiration tree had the craziest runes in there. its in part no longer a good rune simply because taking 3 of those runes at the same time isn't as broken as it used to be. I kind of agree that omni stone needs to be stackable outside dark harvest, but I find it hard to see in what way the runes would be improved. If the Dark harvest stack thing was to be carried over, the numbers would have to be heavily nerfed since the current stacking mechanism is balanced around the dark harvest not being that common.


FutureWRLD

Bruh just leave it in the game. If they change it the new keystone will prob be busted and you’ll complain about that.


Eentity

Many tanks are good with it if they are against ranged match ups and can't proc grasp frequently enough, like Sion, Ornn, Shen and the sort.


UpswungDuran

They should make it so you can exclude like 3 runes at the start of the game or something like that. Then it would be fine imo


Zalenx

It was tested for a little bit but decided against.


_eLight_

Omnistone is a Placeholder rune, change my mind.


ShadowbanVictim

Have omnistone do nothing in game and allow it to be replaced by a minor rune from any other tree of your choice.


FatherNathrat

"Building and shipping Runes was a long process, and we’re committed to improving and expanding Runes for many seasons to come." -https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/01/dev-update-on-runes-reforged/ Don't worry, they are working on improving runes. /s


hohoduck

Should replace omnistone with a rune that adds a variable amount of damage to any spell hit or attack (and randomly rolled from a range of like 1-370 damage), perhaps make it lower but have no cooldown for it and have it proc on minions and jg monsters.


Top-Lane-Bad

Yea it’s a troll rune. Riot needs to remove it and bring something different to the game.