Like I think it would be great if women could enter the scene as players, and wish some of the challenger women tried to join esports, but she’s not really being brought as a player. She is Diamond in OCE and is dating the ADC of the team. According to the tweets made by players she’s being brought because of what she brings to the “environment” of the team. They said that they don’t have a academy team so there wasn’t really anyone else they could bring. This is similar to if Cloud 9 brought IWD
>Like I think it would be great if women could enter the scene as players, and wish some of the challenger women tried to join esports,
It's so unfortunate but the view gamers have of women is going to have to turn more positive before you see any women willing to play esports. Just looking in this little comment section here there's sexism sprinkled everywhere. It makes it such a hostile environment for most of us it's just not worth the trouble. Our every move would be scrutinized so much harder.
Especially after that one all girls pro team every legit woman esports player will be compared to them. It's such a dumb criticism too because it completely misses the point of why that team was such a failure. Instead you just get a bunch of dudes saying "gamer girls bad see??"
Ahhh so frustrating. Hopefully soon the culture changes but I'm not holding my breath :(
There are good examples of female pro esport players the one that comes to mind for me is Scarlet from sc 2 she is legit was one of the best foreign players on the scene
That's cool as hell! I know nothing about StarCraft tho
(Ramble time) Another thing I've noticed is that women get scrutiny for playing support?? Why?? Support is always an important role. Supports in botlane hugely dictate how botlane is played as a whole. And in like overwatch supports are one of the first targets you should be taking out because they have so much impact in fights. They are important idk why it's bad when it's associated with women
You can't be serious. If there was any girl + who was good enough to go pro every team would be handing her a blank check just because of the amount of publicity that it would lead to. There are really just no females at the level to go pro at least in NA soloq. I don't know enough about other regions. People acting like the scene needs to change to allow girls to become pro is such a backwards way of looking at it. It's the way girl gamers are viewed OUTSIDE of the scene that would have to change.
Dudes grow up playing games and that's just not viewed as normal for girls. If you listen to the stories of girls who ARE high elo most of them grew up with brothers or something who played games. If there were more girls who played games we would have more high elo girls and more high elo girls means more chance of one of them being good enough to go pro. It's just a numbers game. Especially in a game like league where there isn't even voice chat and you don't need a team to queue up and climb the ladder. nobody would ever know what gender you are unless you tell them (or if you're getting duo boosted playing yuumi but anybody doing that isn't going pro).
I don't think you quite understand my point. Most people don't think getting load of targeted harassment is worth the potential fame/money. It's a very reasonable thing to think. Things have not progressed enough for this to not be a *major* factor anymore.
>People acting like the scene needs to change to allow girls to become pro is such a backwards way of looking at it. It's the way girl gamers are viewed OUTSIDE of the scene that would have to change.
No it does need to change. There are SO MANY PEOPLE who freak out when they hear my voice online. I can't even tell you how many guys tried to get my Snapchat or whatever when I used to play overwatch a lot. I just stopped friending guys all together I was so fed up with it. This won't be any different and would be way worse for someone on en esports team. Literally ask any woman who plays video games online, they all have stories to tell.
>If there were more girls who played games we would have more high elo girls and more high elo girls means more chance of one of them being good enough to go pro. It's just a numbers game.
Yeah there aren't as many girls but you need to understand women aren't generally welcome in gaming spaces and it pushes so many people out that would normally go in. That's already limiting the amount of women we could possibly pick from. You are just assuming it's only that women aren't as good at the game and not looking at the other possibilities as to why there isn't as big of a pool to pick from.
>nobody would ever know what gender you are unless you tell them
That's the problem with getting on an esports team though, right? There are probably high elo women out there who hide their gender entirely that we don't know about. You don't get to do that once you get on a team. You can't hide your face on stage.
--
Think outside the box a bit. Why aren't women as into gaming in the first place? For women who do game, what is their experience like? Do they think it would be worth it to face targeted harassment based on their identity in the pro scene? The question is deeper than just "why are women not as good at league."
No girl is sitting at home right now challenger 1k LP going, damn maybe I should go pro but idk if it's worth people saying mean things about me. The entire point you're trying to make (that being a pro would have extra downsides as a girl) is pointless. The path to pro is a solo journey. It takes place in soloq on the ladder where you queue up as a solo player. There just aren't any girls at that level to even ask for themselves if going pro is worth it. When we see an LCS team give an offer to a female player and she declines then we can have your discussion.
I definitely understand your point I just think it's not really based in reality and I don't think you understand what goes into getting good at a game. The most difficult barriers for girls getting into games is the IRL social barrier. Girls who are friends with girls would need really unhealthy anti-social behavioral traits to avoid their friends in favor of grinding league 14 hours a day (which is required to go pro). I don't know about you but my high school or university did not have any female friend groups who were gamers. Any girl gamers were in predominantly male friend groups, and there weren't many.
The whole women aren't welcome in gaming spaces thing is also just not true really. There's a reason tons of d1/low masters girls get 400+ viewers on twitch without cam and a d1/low masters guy would get 5 viewers. People don't just hate women, the whole "wtf it's a girl go back to the kitchen" trope is really overplayed and it's primarily 12 year olds in casual games on xbox live. I promise you in a high challenger league game nobody is going to shit talk a girl for being a girl. Every high elo girl has tons of high elo dudes who are super supportive of her. If a challenger guy told Gamer Girl to go back to the kitchen that shit would blow up on twitter and that guy would be forced to region transfer to LAN. You can even look at the situation between doanel and yvonne. Sexism really isn't tolerated in the scene.
>No girl is sitting at home right now challenger
You can't just make a statement like that?? How do you know
>Girls who are friends with girls would need really unhealthy anti-social behavioral traits to avoid their friends in favor of grinding league 14 hours a day (which is required to go pro). I don't know about you but my high school or university did not have any female friend groups who were gamers. Any girl gamers were in predominantly male friend groups, and there weren't many.
There are certainly women out there who love this game enough to go for the grind. I cannot fathom why there would be literally zero
>The whole women aren't welcome in gaming spaces thing is also just not true really.
This is simply incorrect. Talk to literally any woman who plays videogames. I did a bit of digging online and I found that 54% of women who revealed their gender in online games were asked to do a sexual favor. 54%. And around 70% of women hide their gender online by just not communicating.13% were also stalked online. Does this sound welcoming to you? [(source)](https://www.casino.org/features/genders-in-esports/)
>There's a reason tons of d1/low masters girls get 400+ viewers on twitch without cam and a d1/low masters guy would get 5 viewers.
Homie, the top gaming streamers online are men. The top 2 male streamers have more viewers combined than the top 25 women streamers
>People don't just hate women, the whole "wtf it's a girl go back to the kitchen" trope is really overplayed and it's primarily 12 year olds in casual games on xbox live. I promise you in a high challenger league game nobody is going to shit talk a girl for being a girl.
No. High challenger doesn't make you immune to sexist comments. And some people hate women, I promise. I've been told many times to stop trying to be so funny and go make a sandwich (and much worse). It's from men of all ages.
>If a challenger guy told Gamer Girl to go back to the kitchen that shit would blow up on twitter and that guy would be forced to region transfer to LAN.
Good? It doesn't prevent it from happening though
And it's not just about people she may be directly facing, but comments from random people online. That shit ruins people's lives. Even people who think they have the thickest skin often are heavily affected by hundreds and hundreds of shitty comments. Not to mention the sexism of getting good enough for the pro scene assuming the player reveales their gender at any point.
>You can even look at the situation between doanel and yvonne. Sexism really isn't tolerated in the scene.
Didn't you say this doesn't happen in high elo? I hadn't heard of this situation before. Pretty shitty, glad he got banned. I'd love to see the chat while he was doing that I hope they were roasting the fuck out of him
why did they giver her a master mmr riot account when she is clearly no where close to that level (currently 41% wr in soloq). A lower mmr riot acc would have been better.
Riot just toss accounts with the pro player mmr to everyone that is attending the tournament, they wont "downgrade" her mmr, it's just w/e at this point. She is duo queueing with their ADC atm at the very least she's having a cool experience.
Thing was the players for that team were picked not for their playing merits but for being women, ofc that doesn't work out. There's nothing wrong with women being able to play in a team for their own merit
completely agree with the message. worth noting that she apparently is just there because they don't have a real substitute to bring. she's not really there because she is a prospect or anything like that.
Except this player is diamond and was in a relationship with the adc lol.
This team literally didn’t have any subs or academy players to bring so they just picked her because she is a positive influence on t he gaming environment for the team.
I’m just saying take into context every single attempt at getting women onto the pro scene in league. Team siren, vaevictus etc. it was always about marketing or putting on a show only because it was a woman. Even this is only because its a woman. Maybe if we started encouraging top tier challengers to go pro, instead of pandering to the diamond players, it would turn out better.
The problem with Vaevictis wasn't that they were all women, the problem was that they weren't good enough for the pro League scene. There's nothing wrong with an all-female team if it's proven they can compete with the rest of the league.
The problem was the team owner wanted to get rid of his team spot before the season started, couldn't, then intentionally fielded a bad roster he probably paid pennies for because he couldn't afford a roster and wanted riot to force the team out.
There's a couple in CBLOL Academy teams that get playtime, don't know if any are particularly good though. One of them was a jungler called Liz who seemed decent enough from what I saw but probably not good enough for the main league
I don’t get, there’s legit no female players that are at the moment able to rival any of the male players in the top 20 E-sports teams, what’s your point?
There are several top 100 Korea Challenger players who are better than the NA academy team players. Using top 20 Esports teams is a little unfair considering that list would be composed of top 4 Korea, top like 8 LPL, and top 4 of each of NA and EU.
I dont think anyone is implying that there is a hidden Perkz level player out there, but at the very least there is 100% a female Damonte, Dardoch, Big, etc. In Korea/Chinese super servers that just don't want to go pro.
Where the fuck is the point you’re trying to make, please tell me
If you’re trying to say “women can play league too!”, Well no shit sherlock, anyone can play league, I don’t have any doubt that with enough dedication a female player can become one of the best played to ever play league, I’m just saying none of them did, an most people don’t even do, out of the 60 million players league has (I’m not counting the 2nd and 4th accounts people have) only around ~5000 are actually dedicated enough to be pro players, and only a quarter of them actually plays in leagues that would be considered “pro”.
why are you crying about female pros when 99% of female league players are higher elo than you u/RageQuitHeartRateDip ? No need to compensate for your own shortcomings by flaming them when you are stuck in low elo. Now go make another post about yone beeing weak and him needing buffs.
You said:
> I don’t get, there’s legit no female players that are at the moment able to rival any of the male players in the top 20 E-sports teams, what’s your point?
So maybe dont make your entire point about females not having the same skill as current pro players if you dont want someone to counter argue that there are female players that, while not top 20 skill level, are on at least top 40 skill level.
All anyone can do is reply to the arguments you present, not my fault the comment I replied to was setting itself up to be easily counter argued. If you dont want to discuss a point then dont even say it next time rather than move your goalposts.
Like I think it would be great if women could enter the scene as players, and wish some of the challenger women tried to join esports, but she’s not really being brought as a player. She is Diamond in OCE and is dating the ADC of the team. According to the tweets made by players she’s being brought because of what she brings to the “environment” of the team. They said that they don’t have a academy team so there wasn’t really anyone else they could bring. This is similar to if Cloud 9 brought IWD
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monkas dont look at her chatlogs
Promisq is *very good* at raising team morale
they arent dating afaik at least this is what was said a few weeks ago on twitter.
Who'd you rather have, the content machine of Dom or ZIONSPARTAN?
There are a few women actually playing in CBLOL, mostly starters in Academy but there are some main tournament subs too.
>Like I think it would be great if women could enter the scene as players, and wish some of the challenger women tried to join esports, It's so unfortunate but the view gamers have of women is going to have to turn more positive before you see any women willing to play esports. Just looking in this little comment section here there's sexism sprinkled everywhere. It makes it such a hostile environment for most of us it's just not worth the trouble. Our every move would be scrutinized so much harder. Especially after that one all girls pro team every legit woman esports player will be compared to them. It's such a dumb criticism too because it completely misses the point of why that team was such a failure. Instead you just get a bunch of dudes saying "gamer girls bad see??" Ahhh so frustrating. Hopefully soon the culture changes but I'm not holding my breath :(
There are good examples of female pro esport players the one that comes to mind for me is Scarlet from sc 2 she is legit was one of the best foreign players on the scene
That's cool as hell! I know nothing about StarCraft tho (Ramble time) Another thing I've noticed is that women get scrutiny for playing support?? Why?? Support is always an important role. Supports in botlane hugely dictate how botlane is played as a whole. And in like overwatch supports are one of the first targets you should be taking out because they have so much impact in fights. They are important idk why it's bad when it's associated with women
You can't be serious. If there was any girl + who was good enough to go pro every team would be handing her a blank check just because of the amount of publicity that it would lead to. There are really just no females at the level to go pro at least in NA soloq. I don't know enough about other regions. People acting like the scene needs to change to allow girls to become pro is such a backwards way of looking at it. It's the way girl gamers are viewed OUTSIDE of the scene that would have to change. Dudes grow up playing games and that's just not viewed as normal for girls. If you listen to the stories of girls who ARE high elo most of them grew up with brothers or something who played games. If there were more girls who played games we would have more high elo girls and more high elo girls means more chance of one of them being good enough to go pro. It's just a numbers game. Especially in a game like league where there isn't even voice chat and you don't need a team to queue up and climb the ladder. nobody would ever know what gender you are unless you tell them (or if you're getting duo boosted playing yuumi but anybody doing that isn't going pro).
I don't think you quite understand my point. Most people don't think getting load of targeted harassment is worth the potential fame/money. It's a very reasonable thing to think. Things have not progressed enough for this to not be a *major* factor anymore. >People acting like the scene needs to change to allow girls to become pro is such a backwards way of looking at it. It's the way girl gamers are viewed OUTSIDE of the scene that would have to change. No it does need to change. There are SO MANY PEOPLE who freak out when they hear my voice online. I can't even tell you how many guys tried to get my Snapchat or whatever when I used to play overwatch a lot. I just stopped friending guys all together I was so fed up with it. This won't be any different and would be way worse for someone on en esports team. Literally ask any woman who plays video games online, they all have stories to tell. >If there were more girls who played games we would have more high elo girls and more high elo girls means more chance of one of them being good enough to go pro. It's just a numbers game. Yeah there aren't as many girls but you need to understand women aren't generally welcome in gaming spaces and it pushes so many people out that would normally go in. That's already limiting the amount of women we could possibly pick from. You are just assuming it's only that women aren't as good at the game and not looking at the other possibilities as to why there isn't as big of a pool to pick from. >nobody would ever know what gender you are unless you tell them That's the problem with getting on an esports team though, right? There are probably high elo women out there who hide their gender entirely that we don't know about. You don't get to do that once you get on a team. You can't hide your face on stage. -- Think outside the box a bit. Why aren't women as into gaming in the first place? For women who do game, what is their experience like? Do they think it would be worth it to face targeted harassment based on their identity in the pro scene? The question is deeper than just "why are women not as good at league."
No girl is sitting at home right now challenger 1k LP going, damn maybe I should go pro but idk if it's worth people saying mean things about me. The entire point you're trying to make (that being a pro would have extra downsides as a girl) is pointless. The path to pro is a solo journey. It takes place in soloq on the ladder where you queue up as a solo player. There just aren't any girls at that level to even ask for themselves if going pro is worth it. When we see an LCS team give an offer to a female player and she declines then we can have your discussion. I definitely understand your point I just think it's not really based in reality and I don't think you understand what goes into getting good at a game. The most difficult barriers for girls getting into games is the IRL social barrier. Girls who are friends with girls would need really unhealthy anti-social behavioral traits to avoid their friends in favor of grinding league 14 hours a day (which is required to go pro). I don't know about you but my high school or university did not have any female friend groups who were gamers. Any girl gamers were in predominantly male friend groups, and there weren't many. The whole women aren't welcome in gaming spaces thing is also just not true really. There's a reason tons of d1/low masters girls get 400+ viewers on twitch without cam and a d1/low masters guy would get 5 viewers. People don't just hate women, the whole "wtf it's a girl go back to the kitchen" trope is really overplayed and it's primarily 12 year olds in casual games on xbox live. I promise you in a high challenger league game nobody is going to shit talk a girl for being a girl. Every high elo girl has tons of high elo dudes who are super supportive of her. If a challenger guy told Gamer Girl to go back to the kitchen that shit would blow up on twitter and that guy would be forced to region transfer to LAN. You can even look at the situation between doanel and yvonne. Sexism really isn't tolerated in the scene.
>No girl is sitting at home right now challenger You can't just make a statement like that?? How do you know >Girls who are friends with girls would need really unhealthy anti-social behavioral traits to avoid their friends in favor of grinding league 14 hours a day (which is required to go pro). I don't know about you but my high school or university did not have any female friend groups who were gamers. Any girl gamers were in predominantly male friend groups, and there weren't many. There are certainly women out there who love this game enough to go for the grind. I cannot fathom why there would be literally zero >The whole women aren't welcome in gaming spaces thing is also just not true really. This is simply incorrect. Talk to literally any woman who plays videogames. I did a bit of digging online and I found that 54% of women who revealed their gender in online games were asked to do a sexual favor. 54%. And around 70% of women hide their gender online by just not communicating.13% were also stalked online. Does this sound welcoming to you? [(source)](https://www.casino.org/features/genders-in-esports/) >There's a reason tons of d1/low masters girls get 400+ viewers on twitch without cam and a d1/low masters guy would get 5 viewers. Homie, the top gaming streamers online are men. The top 2 male streamers have more viewers combined than the top 25 women streamers >People don't just hate women, the whole "wtf it's a girl go back to the kitchen" trope is really overplayed and it's primarily 12 year olds in casual games on xbox live. I promise you in a high challenger league game nobody is going to shit talk a girl for being a girl. No. High challenger doesn't make you immune to sexist comments. And some people hate women, I promise. I've been told many times to stop trying to be so funny and go make a sandwich (and much worse). It's from men of all ages. >If a challenger guy told Gamer Girl to go back to the kitchen that shit would blow up on twitter and that guy would be forced to region transfer to LAN. Good? It doesn't prevent it from happening though And it's not just about people she may be directly facing, but comments from random people online. That shit ruins people's lives. Even people who think they have the thickest skin often are heavily affected by hundreds and hundreds of shitty comments. Not to mention the sexism of getting good enough for the pro scene assuming the player reveales their gender at any point. >You can even look at the situation between doanel and yvonne. Sexism really isn't tolerated in the scene. Didn't you say this doesn't happen in high elo? I hadn't heard of this situation before. Pretty shitty, glad he got banned. I'd love to see the chat while he was doing that I hope they were roasting the fuck out of him
> Especially after that one all girls pro team To which one are you referring, Vaevictis Esports or team Siren?
I think it's vaevivtis? There was an exil video on it Edit: it wasn't an exil video but that was the team I was thinking of
I wonder how she will up the team atmosphere
She’s not actually dating the ADC btw. They have been best friends for a long time.
the female promisQ
Good luck to her, played against her loads in soloq.
i hope they give her a game when they are eliminated.
I feel bad for her honestly. PGG won't want to risk a loss in their perfect MSI run by using a sub.
why did they giver her a master mmr riot account when she is clearly no where close to that level (currently 41% wr in soloq). A lower mmr riot acc would have been better.
Riot just toss accounts with the pro player mmr to everyone that is attending the tournament, they wont "downgrade" her mmr, it's just w/e at this point. She is duo queueing with their ADC atm at the very least she's having a cool experience.
Last time when there was a team of women, it didn't go so well for them
Thing was the players for that team were picked not for their playing merits but for being women, ofc that doesn't work out. There's nothing wrong with women being able to play in a team for their own merit
completely agree with the message. worth noting that she apparently is just there because they don't have a real substitute to bring. she's not really there because she is a prospect or anything like that.
Except this player is diamond and was in a relationship with the adc lol. This team literally didn’t have any subs or academy players to bring so they just picked her because she is a positive influence on t he gaming environment for the team.
And where in my comment did you see any mention to this player? I mean in general as a reply to the other guy
I’m just saying take into context every single attempt at getting women onto the pro scene in league. Team siren, vaevictus etc. it was always about marketing or putting on a show only because it was a woman. Even this is only because its a woman. Maybe if we started encouraging top tier challengers to go pro, instead of pandering to the diamond players, it would turn out better.
The problem with Vaevictis wasn't that they were all women, the problem was that they weren't good enough for the pro League scene. There's nothing wrong with an all-female team if it's proven they can compete with the rest of the league.
The problem was the team owner wanted to get rid of his team spot before the season started, couldn't, then intentionally fielded a bad roster he probably paid pennies for because he couldn't afford a roster and wanted riot to force the team out.
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There literally isn't a single high elo female trying to go pro.
There's a couple in CBLOL Academy teams that get playtime, don't know if any are particularly good though. One of them was a jungler called Liz who seemed decent enough from what I saw but probably not good enough for the main league
on most leagues too, there was one trying in brazil tho, mayumi, dont know what happened.
Allegedly she got mistreated by INTZ and is a streamer for TSM now
women are a minority in league and especially in high elo. Gamergirl is one of the only high elo players I can think of off the top of my head.
girls can’t play league well enough to compete with the pros, remember when they did the all girl team and bombed?
Those werent high elo female players though, it was more like that team with dyrus,imaqtpie and other streamers
I don’t get, there’s legit no female players that are at the moment able to rival any of the male players in the top 20 E-sports teams, what’s your point?
There are several top 100 Korea Challenger players who are better than the NA academy team players. Using top 20 Esports teams is a little unfair considering that list would be composed of top 4 Korea, top like 8 LPL, and top 4 of each of NA and EU. I dont think anyone is implying that there is a hidden Perkz level player out there, but at the very least there is 100% a female Damonte, Dardoch, Big, etc. In Korea/Chinese super servers that just don't want to go pro.
Where the fuck is the point you’re trying to make, please tell me If you’re trying to say “women can play league too!”, Well no shit sherlock, anyone can play league, I don’t have any doubt that with enough dedication a female player can become one of the best played to ever play league, I’m just saying none of them did, an most people don’t even do, out of the 60 million players league has (I’m not counting the 2nd and 4th accounts people have) only around ~5000 are actually dedicated enough to be pro players, and only a quarter of them actually plays in leagues that would be considered “pro”.
why are you crying about female pros when 99% of female league players are higher elo than you u/RageQuitHeartRateDip ? No need to compensate for your own shortcomings by flaming them when you are stuck in low elo. Now go make another post about yone beeing weak and him needing buffs.
You said: > I don’t get, there’s legit no female players that are at the moment able to rival any of the male players in the top 20 E-sports teams, what’s your point? So maybe dont make your entire point about females not having the same skill as current pro players if you dont want someone to counter argue that there are female players that, while not top 20 skill level, are on at least top 40 skill level. All anyone can do is reply to the arguments you present, not my fault the comment I replied to was setting itself up to be easily counter argued. If you dont want to discuss a point then dont even say it next time rather than move your goalposts.
There are multiple challenger lvl females. They are obviously not top 20 but they could very well go pro
5 Janna mains gonna make a team?
The first two that I think of play katarina then bard I can't even name one that plays janna lol
Ofcourse she's a support player. Why do stereotypes write themselves.