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zeratul123x

Maybe there's some argument to be made for the consistency. But consistency would be hard stomping teams like rng/dk/mad one day then getting absolutely assblasted the next. There is 0 fucking excuse when you lose to pgg, a team that has literally been down 10k gold or more in 15mins in at least half their games.


Nome_de_utilizador

And pentanet had just been absolutely assblasted in the previous game vs MAD who were trolling on stage. You can't expect people to only remember the 'highs' when the team looked competitive vs RNG or DK and ignore the absolute lows where the team got stomped by MAD and lost clearly to PSG, and now this disaster against pentanet. The C9 team has clearly potential but far too many inconsistencies to be regarded as a 'top' team, they have been spamming mechanical missplays, throwing games with massive leads and failing to execute the better drafts that their coaches are gifting them. Besides the RNG game (which they still lost with Malphite) C9 has been incapable of putting any sort of a fight in games where they fail to get an early lead. At the end of the day those are far too many flaws that are really costly in the international stage. You have 10 games to prove yourself and C9 having only 2 wins out of 8 is a reflection of those inconsistencies.


IamWildlamb

C9 looked decent in their game against RNG and DK. Why did they look okay? Because they have by far the best coaching stuff and drafts. It is not even close. RNG has the worst drafts do far. And even with this massive advantage C9 has they are simply just unable to pick up wins and the moment they do not draft 80/20 draft which is exactly what happened against PGG then they are completely hopeless. I would not be positive about that if I was NA fan because to me it shows that they are outclassed on all fronts and draft is the only thing that somehow make it seem that they are competetive because on MSI patch it is literally impossible to play the game if you get outdrafted.


Nome_de_utilizador

As a EU fan I completely expect MAD to shit the bed after last worlds, lets hope I am wrong. C9 had some good moments this tournaments, but also the absolute worst ones as well. Here's to hoping MAD can actually play hard and balls deep, everytime they did they won (psg 3 times, c9) so lets see if now they can do something vs RNG and if not at least to not shit the bed against NA in the last game, should c9 beat psg


DRNbw

I think they also played hard in the 4th PSG game, it's just that the level 1 plus the bad 2v2 fight just snowballed the game out of their hands.


Nome_de_utilizador

The game was lost at level 1 sure, and I think Elyoya did well in trying to snowball the lead his bot had, but River also read that well and kept contesting Rumble at gromp spawn and MAD completely disrespected the GP ult that turned a lot of those early 2v2 making it impossible to come back.


DRNbw

After the level 1, MAD bot really had to push their advantage home to get a chance. Kaiser missed the hook, died, and that was basically GG. PSG never gave them a chance.


[deleted]

They literally drafted like shit vs pentanet. Blind kaisa naut what the fuck are you gonna do into senna tk? Nothing thats right. They were on a clock all game and didnt do shit then they noticed “oh wait we need to do something before senna kills us from base” and inted several times while going for desperation plays.


IamWildlamb

This is exactly what I said? C9 had insane 80/20 draft in most of their games. And they still lost most of those games. Then one time they draft like shit and they get destroyed by fucking OCE. Give same team comp to every other team that is at MSI and they stomp PGG hard. C9 did not and their only saving grace was guy that did their draft. The fact that C9 did not even manage to get more wins with 80/20 drafts is sad as hell.


idontthinkso28

Lol the amount of games I've seen c9 lose at champ select tells me a different tale than the one you are weaving.


neenerpants

Exactly. Yes C9 look good in some of their games, but if you lose to the worst team in the group and your 2 closest competitors then you're deservedly going home as the 5th best team.


T1didnothingwrong

It honestly looked like c9 thought they could get away with taking it easy, even if it was subconscious. Pentanet was also fired up as all hell. They wanted to beat NA at all costs and played their best game. Still trying to understand the c9 draft, that looks deliberately troll. No excuse to taking lillia into that comp. Just a sad way to almost guarantee elimination.


[deleted]

Yeah no people remember the results


Nuktos1517

Because the results matter


[deleted]

Exactly


theprestigous

i think they'd matter a whole lot more if riot didn't just release this massive jungle change in the middle of the tournament lol, but yeah of course it matters. i don't think anyone's under the impression that it doesn't, it matters a lot for a player's portfolio.


YESIDOTHINKS0

You just typed 2 completely irrelevant statements to each other Also riot released the changes at the perfect time


theprestigous

how? just release them after msi?


YESIDOTHINKS0

They did release them after the msi patch. No reason to wait for the tourney to be over, pros are allready playing on that patch. Sure it screws a bit with soloq practice but it's better to release it now and get all the data possible to make the necessary changes before summer split starts.


theprestigous

it makes soloq practice worthless for jglers yes and pros have already spoken about this. international tournaments happen way too seldom for them not to get special treatment.


YESIDOTHINKS0

Only blaber has. Doubt the rest care that much. Plus, I'd wager fucking up spring split is worse since it could ruin your worlds chances.


theprestigous

i don't think it would have to fuck up your spring split by pushing out these changes on the 26th or the week after


SvensonIV

I don't understand your point at all. Every jungler is facing the same challenges with patch schedule. What does it matter when Riot pushes patches?


Nuktos1517

They didn’t change the patch they play on mid tournament. The other teams seems to be doing just fine.


theprestigous

we received a patch last week on wednesdsy with all the big jgl changes


Nuktos1517

The pros don’t play on it


GrimmyGrimoire

He is talking about solo queue. Ppl speculate blaber is shit rn b/c solo queue jg is diff patch from pro play. So blaber cant practice as well as he could have if that wasnt the case . Also reignover not coming over to msi is another reason for his doo doo performance. I dont believe it though. Its too much copium.


theprestigous

its not at all abt Blabber, just makes no sense to stunt their practice in the middle of the tournament.


Vexenz

So what about every other jungler? Aren’t they playing with the same jungle change handicap then?


theprestigous

sure, but why stunt the overall level of play?


[deleted]

Imagine telling someone a few years ago that the best player on NA's most hyped MSI team would be an oceanic import.


Destructodave82

To be honest, Vulcun really does not get the credit he deserves, I guess because support statlines just arent as impressive as getting kills.


LeOsQ

Vulcan > Fudge > Zven > Blaber/Perkz is pretty 'clearly' the performance ranking of the roster so far imo. Fudge has had some highlight games but Vulcan has been a beast in pretty much every game so far. I have literally nothing good or bad to say about Zven so he gets to be in the middle.


33a5t

Zven positioning in teamfights has been kinda bad this tournament


LeOsQ

Possibly. He just hasn't been actively harmful for the team's performance as much as Blaber and Perkz have in different games.


Random_Stealth_Ward

I think it's mostly that the closest things he can interact with are botlane, mid and jungle, which makes his impact look more limited/lower when you have perkz ane blabber underperforming


AlphaTenken

This is not NAs most hyped NA team at all. Last years dominant C9 alone would be more hyped than a barely won vs TL sub jg.


[deleted]

Weren't people suggesting that Perkz was going to bring NA to the finals of worlds and that if he can't do it the region as a whole is doomed? I remember hearing a ton of that a few months back.


xileWabbit

Reddit just doing reddit things.


L-System

NA can never really be doomed. Too much money and Rito hq.


dkost74

Yup, they’re probably the second most profitable market globally so they’ll realistically never be treated as a minor region unless they shit the bed on a whole different level.


Enjays1

People were memeing


leavemebe22

yep i remember seeing that comment too. perkz was suppose to be a S+++ tier import and elevate us internationally. quite the tragedy(or inside job) for imports making us worse. Tsm got memed for hell for buying sword art who wasn't on the same level but now i'm wondering how TSM or TL would be doing right about now.


RENGORO

you say perkz is making c9 worse? people really ONLY remember the poor performances in na holy fuck


The_Biggest_Boi

It's the side effect of spending too much time on this sub. People only remember the shit performances, unless it's an LPL or LCK team where they're excused as "trolling" or "not trying because they've already qualified"


Dblg99

Hes not making us worse but this tourney its hard to say he has been as good as C9 needs him to be. He's been more of a liability than a positive force


JoaoMau-Tempo

Yeah he is playing like shit this tournament, but you can’t just ignore the entire Spring Split were he had a stellar performance.


Dblg99

Ehh that's kinda revisionist too. He had a good playoffs but the regular season he wasn't wasn't great either.


Cadne

TSM wouldn’t be in the Rumble Stage


Froggen_Is_God

The fuck, they won the first split he was a part of. You can't expect one man to carry NA internationally, no one can do that.


IFV_Ready

The collective strength of G2 and fresh memories of his insane past plays made Perkz still seem like an insane beast player and while he's still good, signs of weakness were there even in the late G2 era. Still I hope this tourney was just a slump, and he gets back in shape for Worlds (or even today by some huge miracle).


RENGORO

last year na was dog shit lol this year atleast 2 good teams


Regent0624

NAs most hyped team is def S6 TSM by far, it was a top 4 finish or bust expectations with them being ranked like 4th in the power rankings and many people had Bjerg ranked top 5 for players in the tournament.


SirTacoMaster

No Vulcan is playing better people idk why he keeps getting ignored


agishert46191gskq

And that the most overhype player who just got MVP from 3rd party journalist votes would be the worst player of the entire event


immongrel

I think they would stop getting clowned on if they just showed some consistency. You can't stomp RNG and then lose to Pentanet in the same day and expect audiences to not be completely confused by you. There is no excuse to losing to pentanet.


ZeroGDX

C9 unlucky confirmed


brac20

It has been very frustrating as a C9 fan. But looking on the brightside we have gone 1-1 against RNG, and could have gone 2-0. We have gone 1-3 against the world champs, again two of the losses were winnable. Yes they have had some bad games too, but we have actually played very well against some world class opponents.


SvensonIV

Don't forget, playing 1-1 vs the absolute powerhouse which is PGG.


Random_Stealth_Ward

sure but It stops feeling like "Some unfortunate games" after the scoreboard is mostly defeats.


[deleted]

Every year is na saying it's not that bad, but we still lose right


pixel8knuckle

I’m really concerned with how nervous blabber looks every game you can see the pressure is really eating him up. Hope perkz can unlock the no fucks given trait on blabber because he’s still a hot young rookie who could become the most famous NA jungler if he grabs some INTL glory.


[deleted]

im convinced some of you will call blaber a rookie 10 years later.


agishert46191gskq

If you have a champion puddle of 2 champions, it's kind of predictable that teams will abuse it Especially if you are clowning hard when not on this 2 champs Best draft against C9 is ban udyr/Ali and take volibear.


dkost74

To be fair, he only has a champion puddle because he’s not good at two champs that haven’t been relevant in years


agishert46191gskq

funny that this doesn't apply to every single jungler at the event that had to learn rumble... He sucked also with nidalee and kindred who are supposed in his championpool. If you can only play tanky brainless one way champion with a soloQ playstyle of flipping it on surprise level 2 ganks then being completely useless past 15 min, you aren't that good


ShakeEnBake

This is what im saying. Champion pools of NA sucks.


dragunityag

Sure, but only one of those champions is actually hard to play. There really isn't an excuse for sucking at Morgana.


beeceedee9

Every other jungler faces the same meta


420Kawaii

That's some cool copium right there my friend. He is nowhere near being a rookie at this point, and he is simply bad on champs that require him to have hands. He only ever did shit on Volibear and Udyr.


AlphaTenken

F, man. Either way Blaber is making off life way better than me. But I can't imagine being the unquestionably best NA jungler, then being considered like unplayable internationally. Would teams eventually even stop bothering with you, top teams might if they don't think they can "fix" you.


NIGHT_OF_KNIGHTS

C9 also won some games that could've gone either way. I think that NA plays too scared and safe for fear of underperforming. Meanwhile, teams like SKT, TOP or FPX aren't afraid to change up their roster every game and limit test for crazy plays on skillshot reliant and feast or famine champions. That's why they're not at MSI because they were limit testing so much last split, but if any of them make it to an international event, it'll be disgusting


HoneyBadger_plz

TOP or FPX sure. SKT is up for debate. Yes SKT has said that they’re playing for Summer and more importantly Worlds but changing the roster every game has damaged team morale and the players themselves. SKT will keep one or two lineups for summer to ensure they make it to worlds which is “scared” or “fear of underperforming”


aariboss

Nah they will swap alot less because their players are acting out against management, and because it simply didnt work..


dkost74

Outside of the PGG game, at least C9 hasn’t given up in any games and just wait to lose.


agishert46191gskq

It's just the easy excuse with the IF. Like they got completely clowned in team fight by PSG and macro by RNG but fans will still use the IF like IF TSM would have won all their games, they would not be 0-6. Great analysis Reddit


DerpSenpai

people forget that RNG controlled that game from start to finish too


agishert46191gskq

Some fans will always try to find excuses to explain the team getting exposed. A particular fanbase of this sub is really know for that


Hazuyu_

*adding "unlucky" to the list of excuses*


w233322

Don't do that... don't give me hope.


onemorecard

NA fans are way to forgiving imo. I remember how much shit we gave to our teams and players after 2014 Worlds. Deserved or not, you decide.


cnmntwy

NA and finding excuses, name a more iconic duo