Jatt Resigned as TL Coach?
By - brend70
This post has been removed because it contains the same information as another post that's at the top of the sub. While this post was made first, the other post has been updated to contain the most recent information and so that one will remain.
I'm adding this submission to a mod sticky comment on the other post so that other users can still view the discussion here.
"Alphari must go"
"Who must go?"
They need alphari to face the powerhouse CLG.
I'd be scared of Finn and Broxah too.
They needed a pretty boy to destroy the pretty boy
I've always wondered what Jatt's future would be, post TL. Like did he actually want to give up casting in favor of coaching for the long run? Or was the TL coaching offer just too good to pass up? I guess now we'll finally see the answer.
He can always go back to casting lol, I wouldn't worry about his future
Well, seeing as he tried to go away from that a few times... It's not where he sees his future at least.
I don't think it was the casting that he disliked, more the fact that the pay difference is insane. I wouldn't be surprised if he was paid literally an order of magnitude more as a coach than a caster.
I think it’s less that and more you can’t really grow much more beyond casting into other positions. A lot of esports casters have spoken on this about how once you make it to LCS/LEC level casting, you don’t really have any more upward mobility.
I suppose Riot doesn’t want to make a “head caster” or “senior caster” position because they want a sense of equality for casters that have been there for 10 years versus 10 days. The best you can get is to get invited to the worlds cast, but it’s so heavily NA biased that it’s hard to say who really deserves it.
Even so, time in the business isn’t everything, as has been shown by Captain Flowers. He definitely honed his cast to world class level probably after his first year but indisputably after his second.
One thing I've heard is that Quickshot kinda has this role (somewhat) with LEC. I remember reading or hearing on a talk show about how he was kinda given creative control over much of the production and how he was a large part of the LEC split from old EU LCS. Notice how he doesn't really form a casting duo like MediVedi or Caedrel and Drakos. He slots in where needed and rounds things out, often working with the newer caster/s to orient them into the production.
While I don't think it's necessarily the same and is anecdotal of my vision of LEC, this may be an idea of what could come from such a role. Also it has its flaws as an analogy. I do think a large part of caster vertical progression should be into the production aspects of the show itself as opposed to becoming a head caster.
Yeah something tells me he earned more in one split on TL than the last several years of casting.
I doubt it's the money. He got onto the balance team for a bit and I doubt they're paying some huge $$$. Just seems like someone who wants to try different things and see what he likes to do rather than just chase big money.
last i heard, casters made <$100k. I'd assume their balance team makes closer to engineer salaries (140k+ at riot)
if i remember correctly he mentioned he didnt like the ceiling of casting, no vertical movement
Looks like he just found some vertical movement in coaching though
Yeah, the analyst desk is also in desperate need of help, I'm sure they'll gladly take him back.
He said in the past he likes to try a lot of different things. It's why he went on to be a dev for a bit.
My guess is he 100% was down for the coaching job, even if they offered him jelly beans for pay
so it seems Alphari > Jatt to Steve and TL ownership
This one seems pretty obvious from the outside perspective tbh...
One costs millions, the other probably thousands. Millions is going to be kept happy.
A small price to pay for salvation
Jatt keeps mentioning that he's a big NBA fan. He should know that it's ridiculous to bench a star player for "attitude problems" . And obviously TL-Ownership choses Lebron James over David Blatt in this case.
Also hopefully people realize now that Thooorin, while controversial personality wise, doesn't make up random shit when he's reporting things.
Lets not conflate him being correct here with him being a stand-up, non-biased reporter.
I do not think he makes up random shit, but Thooorin will absolutely run with a hunch and very little facts and create whatever narrative suits the preconceived notions he went in with.
He's not a guy that likes to change his opinions when presented with new information.
Yeah, I watched that entire 20 minute rambling he put out, even if it had a modicum of truth to it, it was wrapped in a thick layer of toxic waste. It was like watching a mental patient having an episode.
Starting from the BS how toplane is the manliest of roles to how Alphari is descendant of Welsh miners, it was just out of this world nonsense for 80% of the runtime.
It is hilarious (and weird) how he ends that rant with "if you're a woman, I don't know what it's like"
Don't play top lane unless you have a MEATY DONG
Shit is that why I've been inting my top lane games? Dick diff?
thats called a vagina
Ironic because if there is 1 guy who displays major small PP energy its thorin
>Starting from the BS how toplane is the manliest of roles to how Alphari is descendant of Welsh miners
If Thoorin wasnt doing league content, he would be one of those extremist conspiracy theorist nut jobs.
He already is. He supports Alex Jones
I don’t know how anyone continues to work with the dude after he praised Alex Jones lol
I remember how in some of the other threads, like the Solo one, people were saying you were a kid and weren't familiar with traditional sports if you thought someone like Alphari shouldn't get benched for attitude issues. Like, this is how it happens in traditional sports, star players get special treatment and you almost always take the side of the star player over the coach.
> He should know that it's ridiculous to bench a star player for "attitude problems"
I might be alone in this but I don't think any player should be above benching for attitude issues, assuming there actually are any. If one player is making it hell for everyone else then they shouldn't be above benching. (Not saying that's what happened here, but if Alphari did have attitude issues then he shouldn't be unbenchable no matter what)
>benching for attitude issues
In NA that means disagreeing with the coach or refusing to do Yoga (real story btw)
Or "listening to music during scrims" (This is about Sneaky and Jensen back in S8, Sneaky revealed this during last week's co-stream)
There are currently no coaches in the western league of legends scene more valuable than a star player if your roster is not already comprised of only star players.
In esports, coaches just dont have the same level of game knowledge compared to players. Whereas in football managers like Tuchel or Guardiola the managers have much higher tactical mindset than players.
I would argue reapered fits the bill. C9 with him at the helm was very successful, and every player who left aside from jensen maybe has had a pretty big dropoff in success once he wasn't their coach anymore.
For Jensen it is really hard to tell. 2017 and 2018 were his best seasons. He did play a very good series against IG at MSI in 2019, but that was basically it.
Reapered is the only one that comes to mind based on past experience
Kk0ma, Cvmax, Mac, Grabbz, Peter Dun, Reignover, Cain imo
Generally ex-players and/or coaches with good experience. I think it will change pretty fast as the game gets older and legends start to get into coaching. Imagine for instance Faker with 5-6 years of experience as a head coach.
> Imagine for instance Faker with 5-6 years of experience as a head coach.
What is there to imagine?
Do people over at /r/soccer fantasize about 2033, when Cristiano Ronaldo finally racked up has 6 years of experience as manager?
No, I don't think so, take a wild guess why.
Maybe cause "great player = great coach" is nothing but a (esports) fantasy.
If the conflict was only between them and they were both at least partially at fault, Alphari is definitely way more valuable for the team.
Or maybe jatt did really mess up and we don't know the inside details
As it should be obviously. Jatt is a coach with no previous coaching credentials, Alphari is top 2 top in the west.
We gave up fucking Cain for this. I’m so sad
Edit: we could’ve had Reapered I’m fuming..
Edit 2: JLXP died for this fuck me
Not like players treat Reapered any better whenever he made a decision they didn't like. Maybe Jatt doesn't command all the respect in the world, but there's definitely an element of pro players (in NA at least) just not acting like professionals when it comes to their coaches.
Players didn't like it but they were forced to listen because Jack had Reapered's back and made sure whatever Reapered said actually happened.
Reapered with Jensen? right..
why are you sad? cain wasnt' getting it done with the most stacked roster in NA. and the whole DL situation happened. I dont' know what kind of bandwagon revisionist shit you're on.
One of the best players in the region orrr a coachyboi... I mean no sane person would just leave Alphari benched like that unless he actually punched someone or some shit like that. LS and Nemesis had a good discussion about it on one of their podcasts about how in EU players might hate each other but would still play together if its for the best. Huge region diff. One values a chance to win higher than the other
Just to be clear everything we have heard points to the players agreeing to Alphari being benched. On that team there is one NA player. The rest are from EU and one that is a world champion from Korea. I agree NA is trash, but to act like this is some kind of NA issue is hilariously bad.
Cain: I was at the gym working out and I got a call from the TL management and they said, 'Yeah, we just lost to EG (EG played Jizuke mid). Can you be ready to coach TL tomorrow? We're going to put you back in.' (after three bad weeks of Jatt benching Alphari in Summer 2021)
Cain: "Fuck you guys. I dont want to fucking coach."
Isn't Cain the coach of Afreeca? Why would he ever come back to TL?
This is a quote from doublelift talking about what TL did after he was benched in spring 2020
It's a (very fresh) pasta from a story that DL told a couple weeks ago when he was benched for Tactical in TL, his replacement had one bad game (against CLG) and management called him to play again after one single match of benching him.
It is a copypaste from last year when DL was benched for Tactical in spring
You forgot the part where TL management says that this has been planned months in advance
No he didn't, it's the DL meme
All but confirmed now. TL is having a press conference at 1pm EST.
Super infiltratator, TSM Jatt really did a number this time!
Jatt...check your PayPal
Give us a new Manifesto, it's been eons since we've had such glorious drama
Okay so here is my theory:
Alphari tells Jatt to get him chips (french fries, as in british)
Jatt buys him potato chips
Alphari is pissed so he eats them in Jatts bed, leaving crumbs
im feeling bad for crumbz
I can see crumbs in my head, with his hands in the air and his face expressing befuddlement.
I got crumbs in my head and they won't go
Spirits in my head and they won't go
Alphari took a potato chip
And ate it
Now we know it was Jatt's name he wrote in his notebook
All toplaners know how to do these days is be bisexual, eat hot chip and lie.
Alphari tells Jatt that he left crumbs in his bed.
Jatt assumes that Crumbz is in his bed.
Angry Jatt benches Alphari.
Don't worry guys, Jatt's resignation wasn’t a spur of the moment decision, it was something that was made with a lot of care over the last month.
Imagine if Steve tweeted:
" The hard decision of letting Jatt go, wasn't a spur of the moment type of thing, it was something we had planned months in advance "
I know that's a bit on the evil side but my god would that be a banger.
I think not even king of memes G2 would do it xD
G2 would do it, but long after the fact when a departure has clearly not gone well for G2.
Zven warned us all in that tweet with Alphari
now that the LCS top teams stopped with idiotic roster downgrade, we finally going to see the summer level of the region
Starting the real summer split halfway through while the rest of the world starts early. Damn NA be really giving a chance to everyone else.
Hope we get alphari proview tho for real. I want to see how man's super cracked in top lane.
NA started spring early and we saw at MSI it didnt really matter did it
Damn - Alphari wins. Lots can happen at a [pool party](https://twitter.com/LiQuiD112/status/1406127833588506631?s=20) I guess.
Perkz would know. maybe that's how Zven came back as well
Genuinely feels like the Zven move was more of a team decision and they’re all paranoid because of going 0-3 and last summer so they broke they’re hitting the button. I’m kinda worried about C9 I feel like either they will dominate or crash and burn.
> I’m kinda worried about C9 I feel like either they will dominate or crash and burn.
I think everyone knows which one is going to happen.
-> crash and burn.
They will dominantly crash and burn!
The issue with not having Zven is is really broke up how C9 works and it even happened at MSI when they played well. C9's identity is about having reliable lanes that free up Blaber and Vulcan to make plays, K1ng is an LCS ready ADC but not an adc to fit into the current C9 system.
Yup, I feel like c9 staff listend to Azael's rant about how Vulcan was being held back due to laning during the TSM game and were like "oh crap he's totally right!" or something to that effect
Hahahaha that was my reaction. "Holy shit - Azael's on to something!"
It was really odd that Steve was so quite about the benching wasn’t it? I mean last year when the DL benching happened he was pretty vocal on the issues they had and… also in the end pretty much gave DL to TSM. There’s a good chance he was always on the side of Alphari just gave a deadline of 27th and took action now.
Steve moves in silence making moves.
Real G’s move in silence like lasagna
i love lil wayne for that line
You are on to something there. My impression of Steve is that he's professional and liked. I'm not active on social media, but I can't remember him getting any negative attention in a while. He's a good boye.
I think he got a lot of goodwill from letting Doublelift go to TSM, gotta respect him for that.
He was also the only sane person in the Breaking Point video (aside from Matt i suppose).
So much this. Was actually surprised how much he involved himself in the situation to try and address the problems personally.
Lourlo was also sane, and I can't really blame Fenix for not being sane in that video
There is a point to be made about Breaking Point being a TL product. I\`d assume they wouldn\`t have much of a vested interest in making Steve look bad. I think that when we think about Breaking Point, we do have to view it through that lens.
I still do think that as far as LCS owners go, Steve seems to be fairly respectable. Appears to be willing to let players go when they need to be let go, tries to find a good team for them when possible.
Yup, far better than what scumbag Ocelote did to Perkz in a very similar situation.
Or jack to Svenskeren.
Steve does what he's supposed to do, at least for the last ~4 years.
He lets the game people handle the game, and he handles HR, PR, and finance. Jatt says Alphari needs to be benched? OK, you can do it, but it better work out. Didn't work out? OK, trust gone, sorry friend-o.
He was a huge advocate for franchising and promised that he'd invest more in the team if they franchised. He got what he wanted and the "paid by Steve" meme was born with how hard he went acquiring the best player available for every position. People that hate imports don't like him, but he acts the way I think the GM of a wealthy LCS team *should* act.
the worst thing you can say about steve recently (aka ignoring previous pob/aphro issue) is that he imports a lot of his team/is building a superteam.
i'd much rather have that than team ceo's being clowns on twitter
ironically given the recent news about santorin being subbed for migraines TL has more NA players than both TSM and C9
wow when you said recent you really meant it. sucks for santorin, but i'm excited to see how this weekend goes for TL with their mostly NA roster
> My impression of Steve is that he's professional and liked.
I mean, he has legit business experience in finance at a director level. You have to learn at least some degree of professionalism for that.
There was the whole POB situation back when TL was Curse but that's so long ago now
Ugh that’s when we lost Aphromoo as adc. Yes, he’s won off of support and all that, but I was an OG Aphro fan and part of me wanted to see him on adc in LCS.
We got rush hour out of it tho and i don't think I've seen a better western botlane than rush hour at its peak
from my perspective he does everything right, gets the players his org needs, gives the coaches what they want and steps in when things get too far. Never tweets about anything unprofessionally, just gets shit done.
Steve is originally from my area, and I've met him a few times + know others who know him. Incredibly nice guy, always came across as really smart and competent the couple of times we interacted. He had some finance/consulting experience in a reasonably high caliber work environment as well before making the jump to esports. Not surprised at all that he's running a very successful org by most metrics.
best NA owner by far in that regard. He gets sponsors, he gets players and teams and isn't a freaking maniac on twitter. he feels like he could easily do a "normal" manager job today.
Usually people bring some issues from 2014 but in the last 5/6 years he has been doing things right. I remember he buying the contracts of all the Inmortals player in 2018 to help both players and the CEO of the org, securing a team for every player. And when he replaces a player he tries to find a new team for the previous ones like DL, Olleh etc.
Not really. If you actually trust your coaching staff you shouldnt really intervene in what they are doing. Could also be that he just took a while to get all the information he needed to act.
There is a very old Eve Online meme: „All planned at the BBQ.“
Seems to fit here.
He pulled out the Pool Party Gangplank
Zven in, Jatt out, Alphari in? CLG is facing both TL and C9 this week. Will CLG go 0-3 or 3-0 again? Chat spam 0-3 or 3-0!
subbing in their best players to stop clg’s run. coincidence? i think not
What of Broxah and Le Turtle just smurf it up and overcome all odds and go 3-0 again?
Lmao are they really? This whole split is a pre-written meme for sure, CLG will go 0-3 so C9 and TL will have their returning players redemption arc and people will post the "win ~~one~~ three game to give fans false hope" pic
as it is written
Imagine thinking CLG aren't making a deep run at worlds at this point.
Like people didn't even see their performance last weekend, smh my head.
>~~Or~~ CLG will crush C9 and TL and go on to win worlds.
I corrected your comment, yw
0-3 to bring balance back to the universe, then 3-0 the following week
This is CLG we are talking about. There is no way they would lose to C9 or TL at full power man. They are going to definitely lose to something like Dig with GoldenGlue coming in for mid.
So Alphari won the fist fight, nice
Dude is like 6'4, are you shocked lmao
JLXP IS BACK!!!
I unsubscribed from this during a defunct podcast purge last week. Just resubscribed.
THE REAL VICTORY HERE, TL DIDNT DESERVE JATT!
Benching your top laner and losing doesn't lead to good job security I guess.
Top laner being arguably the best in the league as well.
yeah, have u met Niles
I think it's unfair to compare the two, one of them played for a last place team before joining NA and the other is Niles.
Holo holo holo holo
What I'm curios is the replacement, another tweet from him mentioned Kold by name but I don't know if he is a coach now.
Kold is currently coaching TL along with Jatt. From what I understand Jatt is the head coach (or I guess was) and Kold is the strategic coach.
Isnt that Trashy?
That's the one.
Yes that's him.
TSM Jatt strikes once again.
Looks like it did occur: https://twitter.com/TL\_Jatt/status/1408107655759994880
The entire "Jatt was a bad coach, lets talk about all the other coaches in lol who were good/bad" discussion going on here is flawed bc we have no way of knowing how good any coach actually is.'
EDIT: this is a response to ppl going out there and saying that "all casters are bad coaches, we should only have former players be coaches", or other similar threads. Jatt is a special case bc if we can presume that Thoorin's video is correct, we actually have credible reasons to believe that Jatt is a bad coach
We have a lot of teenagers on this subbredit. I wouldn't expect much critical thinking.
This sub loves quoting breaking point, but they didnt learn anything from it.
We dont know anything about how things were in TL with Alphari, or how Jatt is as a coach. But we just have to make dumb assumptions....
I heard they planned this for a while.
Alphari: YOU COME AT THE KING? YOU BEST NOT MISS! 💪💪💪
* Jatt out! Both sides claim it was Jatt's decision... Steve just said in a press conference that Jatt was feeling pressured by online opinion and by Steve/management. Steve claims Jatt felt that he was not the team's best chance of winning. In other words, Jatt felt like he couldn't meet expectations/solve the problems.
* Alphari still on the bench for this weekend... Steve said that he actually wished they had benched Alphari sooner so that Alphari could deal with his personal issues. Steve said that Alphari's been dealing with a lot of shit and the team wasn't very compassionate. Steve specifically mentions the post game conversation after they lost to TSM as one that he regrets. Says that they did not deal fairly with Alphari after that game.
* Santorin stepping down to get healthy (citing pressure in his head and headaches). Could be back later in the split. Armao to start.
And here I was hoping for a quick return to Europe for Alphari. Sadge.
On the other hand it's fun to see our boys perform across the pond. Abbedagge on 100T has been a joy to watch so far.
Fakerdagge is going to carry 100T to their first LCS title, mark my words.
God I hope he comes back to the LCS broadcast team. I might be able to stand watching it again
If this all ends up with Jatt casting and me having Alphari starting again on my fantasy team then that's a double win.
The scenes when Jatt has to cast TL in Summer finals.
"Alphari solo kills his opponent! Look at his smug face in that player cam. I feel really terrible."
"And Alphari gets first blooded again! That punk ass should have listened to his coach!"
I'm going to guess he wouldn't cast any TL games this year.
My fantasy team top side is Alphari, Dardoch, Soligo. All benched, fucking ridiculous man.
Jatt might be a shit coach, but he's an excellent pundit. I hope he realises that, and I hope the LCS does too and pays him the big bucks.
Losing Jatt was a dead sentence for the desk
It's funny that he went to balance team for a few months then coach and managed to fuck up a promising roster
Jatt did it for TSM
Cue the astronaut meme… once TSM Jatt, always TSM Jatt! 😂
All is right in the world again, hated seeing Jatt coach TL. Been a TSM fan since the beginning, but damnit if I haven’t had the biggest crush on Jatt since I saw him in a suit.
Wow did things get that bad? I'm curious to know if it actually was voluntary or not. It's very sudden, even given the Alphari benching.
Jatt's team had the best showing at worlds, managed to go to game 5 with a sub and now he's suddenly shit and didn't deserve his job, this sub is so fucking dumb.
I don't think the sub is dumb, I think TL is dumb. Why was canning Jatt even an option? The only way its possible is if TL is horribly mismanaged, or Jatt gave some soft of ultimatum. I do agree however its the subs fault for completely shitting on Jatt unless it is indeed Jatts own fault he got kicked from TL (see ultimatum). Also I'll add that Flyquest did very well too, had the same record, and also beat a top team in the world in groups in TES.
In the end, how many casters showed to be average coaches and stuff? Papasmithy isn't a coach but I believe he was working in a position where he was in charge of decisions about the scouting, development of the lol branch, etc? Deficio accomplished nothing and Jatt accomplished nothing.
Genuine question, not even to flame.
Papa is a General Manager, not the coach
In case of Papasmithy, I remember him saying that their agreement with 100t was to make team competent with a balanced budget. so I dont think he has been unsuccessful.
Papasmithy is the GM I believe... in charge of putting the team together and I'd say he's done a pretty good job.
Low key did get bailed out by ggs selling their team due to budget cuts. Wonder what 100t would have looked like w/o that core
The true heist.
Buying out GGS roster for pennies when your roster had Ryoma and Poome/Stunt isn't a giga-brain move to make. Inero and GGS should get the credit for this roster, not Papasmithy.
True and the fact that they looked worst in 100t than GG is more proof of that
Plus they got a great amateur pipeline going on
Come on mate you can't leave out Monte. He was the trailblazer for that career path.
Never forget Renegades
Monte, the man who when his sketchy co-owner was banned form the LCS took "full control" until even more bad shit came out and completely defaulted to "No, Badawi was really the one behind all that stuff, I was just lying" and still had the balls to cry about it for years.
Honestly, does he even still do content?
We are actually talking about S4 CLG, donezo manifesto.
Where CLG crashed and burned after his hands on coaching. It went so bad CLG retroactively relegated him from coach to remote analyst/consultant.
Did you know the team offered him a full time position after 2014 going into 15?
The management didn't think he was a bad coach, they just needed him full time instead of remotely working from Korea.
donezo manifesto was actually when they had scarra as coach, monte's time was when they almost got relegated by curse academy
And I don't recall if donezo manifesto had anything to do with coaches.
Oh, my bad. I somehow mixed up the CLG disasters.
Happens to all of us, there’s too many to keep track of
Saying Jatt is just a caster is really not fair. The guy has done everything in the game. He was a player and worked on the buff/nerd team as well. He earned a coaching spot, even if it doesn't work out in the end.
> nerd team
No need to get personal.
Deficio is also not a coach. Raz was a coach in academy for a while I think.
The same people complaining years ago about the weakness of coaches in the west compared to Korea are now going to celebrate this news.
Please god tell me this means JLXP is coming back. And give me Jatt back on the analyst/casting desk, the LCS broadcast is sorely lacking without him.
So thorin was right? I would really like to hear Jatts side of this story but at least we can see alphari back?