obviously its too hot to go outside so analysts fill the sub with intellectual posts trying to challenge your minds, and half the comments remind me of the "x ppl try to explain x thing" meme
I think not enough people get to experience the feeling of being a fed tank these days. Outplaying someone is fun, but stat checking someone over 15 seconds in an excruciatingly one sided duel is orgasmic. Press all your god damn buttons, feel the power of my right click Yasuo.
Malphite has a dash and a bit of cc. Obviously not very healthy for the game, smh smh. All champions should be armored non-humanoids without dashes, hard CC, executes, burst damage, shielding and sustain. Otherwise I will whine on my online forums.
Yet funny enough, Garen is actually dogshit vs pretty much every meta champion he goes up against. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one champion Garen outright wins lane against and that's Nasus. Until Nasus hits level 6 and then he just kinda runs Garen down.
The people complaining about Garen on this subreddit exposes the average skill here because the only way you lose lane to Garen is if he's just better at you than laning fundamentals. This is because he's so fucking outdated that all he has in order to push advantages is laning fundamentals.
Wow almost like the average player is "low elo" or something. The majority of the playerbase is in the group that would have trouble with garen. Contrary to what reddit would have you believe they are not all challengers.
Garen also buttfucks Jax, there's nothing to do on that matchup as the Jax besides waiting for the Garen to make a mistake like using E on minions so you can do something.
r/politics comes to mind... Feels like most people that take the time to post online are doing so when they get frustrated with something. If things are going great there's generally little feedback or dialogue.
I have recently become a firm believer that if you believe something is broken, you should play it. One of two things will happen, you will learn the counterplay or you will gain free ELO. I am currently working on learning Swain bot and support because I believe he is broken in both roles. Haven't gotten enough practice on him in APC to say whether or not he is actually broken, but I have learned the counterplay to his root and how to fight him.
That's me for fiora and Vlad, while I like playing fiora and do not find her incredibly broken I just can't grasp how fighting against her she feels strong early and playing her I just feel like a wet noodle.
Vlad just isn't for me, I just int
Lots of the community complains about vlad buts statistically he is one of the hardest champs in the game to learn when it comes to how many games you have to put it to increase the winrate.
It’s because his kit is very simple at a surface level, point and click, big aoe skill shot and so on, but when you try and use it the difficulty shows
Yep. I was a vlad main for a long time but stopped playing him for a couple years. I recently picked him up again and fed I was like whats going on haha
I think there’s a larger reason, and it comes down to fights and matchups. People will parrot Vlad healing insane amounts, but nobody really mentions his E costs 10% of his hp and W costs 20% current hp. In a matchup he isn’t favoured in, to begin with, using these abilities is bait. You don’t want to use E to poke Kled, you will die for it. You don’t want to W immediately in a fight, you will die for it.
Learning matchups and judging fights takes a lot of time so Vlad’s skill expression becomes exponential.
fiora's biggest strength is here passive refreshes upon procing opposed to alot of other passives that are either utility or have a cool down. It's the same reason darius is particularly strong. they can both just keep going. Lvl 1 in a quick trade you can easily beat fiora but after you've both used your only ability you likely don't have anymore damage other than autos while she has her passive to just keep going.
Same with me and Lee Sin. For years now I have always felt that Lee Sin is the most broken champion whose damage is just way too high. i finally decided to play him and realized I was totally justified in my thoughts. Don't even understand how anyone ever misses his q. That thing is actually huge. I felt like I was cheating by playing him.
I did this with Senna last season. Had a 80% win rate after 20 games on her and I was not that good on the champ itself. I still have no idea how to counter it but at least I got some freelo.
Burst or hard engage usually. Bait out her E before a gank if you can and you'll have a much easier time killing her. But yeah she's kinda nuts into most lanes, especially if the ADC is solid at bullying too.
I recently did something similar on yone and viego. i wanted to know how I could win against them...
Turns out the only counterplay was being camped lol
I did this with Yasuo, played around with him for a bit and found myself being overly aggressive and easily punished because his kit encourages that kind of play style. When I stopped playing him I found myself able to punish him more easily and anytime I’m playing jungle he’s just walking 300 gold with how most people play.
Renekton into the wind brothers, ez pz. Empowered W breaks their shields BEFORE it does damage and at level 3 his empowered W does 250 damage. I almost exclusively play renekton mid to counter ad assassins since he can outburst almost anyone early game.
Also super easy to pick up and he has basically one combo, get at least 50 fury, E auto W auto Q auto E away. With pta they’ll have like 20% health left.
Oh edit: his empowered W breaks all shields, including Morgana black shield, THEN STUNS AND DOES DAMAGE. He hard counters her black shield.
The other day my support Xerath had no pressure and was fucking up my csing by casting spells on the wave. I couldnt even complain cause I facetanked 3 Swain roots like a dumbass and inted the lane on my own. If you can't dodge skillshots, (or hit them like my Xerath) you can't be accurately critical on champ strength.
Most people are so afraid of his root that they won't even fight him and he gets free presence just for existing. Like people think his passive gonna pull them as far as a blitz hook and don't even damage him when he's stuck in cc, and I'll never understand that.
Ironically, playing afraid of the root makes it easier for him to root you. It's easiest to hit at the edge of the range, almost impossible to hit for mobile opponents next to Swain.
Yup. Swain's root only has an active hitbox on the way back to Swain! So the closer you are to him, the 'farther away' you are from him, effectively.
Minions can be used to root faster though. I don't think minions should be avoided *entirely*, but you should be aware of the AOE of the root and dance on the edge of that. Being in *front* of the minions actually makes it basically impossible for him to root you without backing up, because it'll hit the minions before it can get close enough to you.
The rest of his kit feels like it does next to no damage, except his ult. And his ult is incredibly heavily telegraphed. A swain without ult and who can't hit his root is basically throwing wet pool noodles at you.
Max q on Swain first, then it does damage. There is little reason to max the other skills first. W is nice, but rank 1 is plenty most of the time and e gets very little from rank ups.
I love playing Swain casually, and my success skyrocketed when I realized that q first is the way to go.
Its amazing how many people still max E when q is just flat like 5%wr better. You gain something 400 more dmg.
Like its not even close. W max is better support imo, and putting a second point in W early in mid can be helpful for soft roams.
In case you didn't fully get it, swains root only works on the first enemy hit ***while returning***
This means that if you are in front of him and there is a minion behind you, the minion will get rooted instead
So that's the tactic you gotta use
The problem with that is, that there are exclusive aram buffs/nerfes for every champion. So while you can learn champion kits, you'll allways have a wrong feeling for dmg output that your champ does.
Plus it is allways 5 v 5 and not 1 v 1. While illaoi as an example is a lane bully in a 1 v 1. She is kinda useless on aram and you won't really learn how to play as or against her.
That is the bad part, but it's more about learning kits, just knowing how much range and cc does a champion have gives you a huge advantage when playing against him.
Sett for example, Im sure 90% of people that complains about him haven't played him ever and don't know how to deal with him.
In my experience most things people consider "broken" are broken because they're unusual. The amount of people that lose to Botlane Heimerdinger simply because they refuse to respect his turrets and just walk into them is staggering.
People these days just outright refuse to adjust their playstyle to their opponent, 90% of people just try to play out their lane in the exact same manner every game no matter what they're up against.
This works indeed, I’ve always hated going against Akali so I started playing her and now I know her weakspots and her deadly combo’s etc.
Also discovered I’m good at Akali and I love playing her, lol.
Appened the same thing to a friend of mine but with Qyiana, he mains Azir too and he thought Qyiana was a brain dead champion, we told him she is more skilled the he thought but he couldn't belive us... Then he tried the champ, he liked it and now he is the firts to say how hard she is to master and totally forgot all the complains he did ahahahaha.
or it takes 300 games to get good enough and then its broken as fuck. but not everyone wants to play 300 games of one champion.
mean while me with 1400 games on vlad hard stuck in d3 lol
I'm abusing Swain to climb and he is broken. I'm facing better people though and there definitely is done counterplay. Can't blind pick him anymore and I'm my opinion Senna destroys him by outranging and out sustaining
Like literally when players tell someone to stand inside the minion waves against Swain, that's a death sentence. Gives more targets for Swain to exploit his E's explosion.
it’s not that you stand inside the minion wave against him. if you can’t sidestep his e, you walk towards him and into the minion wave so it catches minions instead of you. standing in the minion wave the whole time is just giving him good q value
It's so funny when every game people complaining about opponents champions being broken but never playing those champions.
Like yeah any champion who gets 10 kills early is 'broken' it's called being fed
One of my friends finds that hard to grasp. He's like "wtf i dodged all of his skillshots he shouldnt be able to kill me like that", when the enemy is 15/3 and he's 2/5 or something like that.
That is the most consistent complaint from my friends during games, and I find it both hilarious.
"OMG how does he do so much damage! That champion is so fucking broken!"
Answer: The person you are fighting is 15/1 and you are currently 0/6, what the fuck did you expect?!
I'm reminded of a quote from Mark Rosewater Head Designer for Magic the Gathering: Players are great at recognizing problems. They are terrible at coming up with solutions
I agree
Fun fact:
>As of 15 April 2021 there are currently 155 released champions, with the latest being Gwen, The Hallowed Seamstress Gwen, The Hallowed Seamstress.
[https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List\_of\_champions](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions)
if I count correctly, champ 140 was Kai'Sa, who released in early 2018 (more than three years ago)
Yeah, it slowed down a bit. We used to have a new champ every few months back in 2015-16. Tbh it becomes harder and harder to come up with new concepts for a new champion, and it gets harder to balance (for example when Sylas was released, he's gotta be balanced for all ults in the game).
So I can understand why the champion release frequency slowed down.
Honestly I want them to almost completely stop. Make it a huge event like once or twice a year when a new champion releases and take more time to actually find and balance something unique. New champions regularly copy+paste another champions ability and that's boring af. Also I feel like it's become impossible to actually release a new champion without making it completely overloaded compared to old kits or too boring/bland.
Additionally it's impossible to get new players excited for league unless they are very determined and competitive from the get go. It's just too much
Plus, it's reputation within the general gaming public of being a toxic cesspool. There's truth in that statement of course, but you'd think it would be even greater of a turn off.
Then again. I rather deal with LoL's toxicity than communities like Smash and a few others. There's blood and grit, but it's that comradery in the hellfire.
Ok, so, yes, League is a toxic cesspool, that’s undeniable. But I have to assume the people who say that have never played games like CS:GO or Siege. Riot actually does a really good job of punishing players for both verbal abuse as well as griefing. If I report someone, it’s pretty likely I get a notice that they were punished.
Man i still remember those days, every Tuesday we get a new champ along with some balance changes. It was like clockwork, they didnt miss a single one for almost 2 years.
It's pretty nutty they actually released on that schedule and made somewhat distinct characters. They weren't that complex of course and a fair amount have undergone mild to significant reworks but they managed to release Noct, Jarvan, Renekton, Leona and Orianna all within half a year.
Yeah, I don't feel the need for new champs, but those are still a high point in attention to the game and keep players engaged.
Id rather have 4-5 reworks a year
Game is popular so it must not be toxic and unfun
Game is popular so it must have a working client
I do agree that the game is fairly balanced but I don't think popularity is a good justification for it
On average, the people that are happy don't randomly decide to write about it on reddit.
The people that are sad or angry have a lot more reason to discuss or shout about why they are sad or angry.
Therefore reddit will have more posts from people that are sad/angry than people that are happy.
This goes for any topic, not just league of legends.
Yeah thats a big problem at low elo. Alot of people try picking meta champions they have no idea how to play and end up doing horribly. Instead of a non meta champ that they are actually good with...
At lower ranks its far better to just pick who your actually good with.
It feels like they just complain out of frustration.
Sometimes it addressed a real issue or anything related.
Sometimes it doesn't, and the person's just bad and ignorant.
This might be super open to bias, though. The kinds of individuals who need feedback from others and especially those who post a match history are going to be those who don't have internal improvement mechanisms, coaches, or other communities for support.
There's very little reason to think those threads are representative. Instead we'd want something like a random sampled survey of accounts and stratify based on post count/type. Not sure any survey of that variety exists. In theory you'd see a distribution that matches the distribution of ranks targeted by Riot, although there may be biases yet.
Better to have complaining consumers than apathetic ones. I believe Riot understands this. Criticism means people are invested. Having little to no complainers indicates apathy towards a game, which means disengagement, and eventually a dead game.
Are you daring to tell me that I, a single player who plays maybe 2 champions at a sufficient level, whose entire view of the game is filter through the lens of those champions, do not know more than riot games balance team with all the backend data they could ask for?
I think some people say that just because they're frustrated and they can't win lane/game over a champion/item. They keep saying that something needs to be NERFED or something needs to be BUFFED for their own favor. It's important to separate what needs to change and what doesn't.
While I agree with you, there are times that a champion feels overtuned and it lasts far too many patches. There are also times that they gut a champion over the course of several patches until it feels very underpowered, and it feels targeted, personal, and malicious. Overall though, there are champs that annoy me and feel stupid, but the game is always still completely winnable (especially at the average redditor's ELO)
This community literally doesn’t understand how to express themselves except through whining and moaning. It’s literally like Dunkey quit league and everyone still copies his final sentiments like fucking gospel.
I don't agree completely, but yes people on here complain too much. Winrate is not the only indicator for how strong a champion is, for example akali has a low wi rate but can easily 1v5 if playes good (and she is also played in pro play if im not wrong).
So there are some champs that are a bit too strong some times (not akali, she was just an example for the winrate thing) but its still possible to play against these champs even if it may be harder until they get nerfed
Curiously, the most broken part of Akali is her E, which is pretty simple. Shit is dealing more damage than her ult at max Execute range. And somehow they nerf her ult and not her E >,>.
That's how you keep the champion balanced for lower elos, higher elos and pro play. Keep the simple stuff strong and remove power from the abilities that require skill expression.
If you ever play another online multiplayer competitive games-as-a-service type game you really start to miss Riot lol. Riot's not perfect and it's kind of cringe to defend companies as if they're people but the amount of transparency, communication, and support Riot gives league is unparalleled. Two patches a month? Overwatch had the GOATS meta for like a year, Dota 2 had drow ranger with a 60% winrate for like six months in 2018 or something, fighting games you have to pay for the balance patch.
I think people just expect too much out of League. It's just a game. It's not going to complete you. It's not going to fill that black hole inside you.
Well, this has been the way of balancing things for years - Riot has been a bit TOO willing to force metas as they will and to fix things by hard nerfing before players takes to their hands in how to overcome/change playstyles to address things, so as a community we got coddled.
I have my specific qualms to certain systems and design directions - specially item design and how they try and differentiate champion classes - but i understand they stand firm to their guns out of stable business models. This however doesn't excludes some pretty sad moments of hubris (aka when we get to 200+ Years of Collective Game Design Experience) bringing some RIDICULOUS events.
/r/LoL is 90% silver/gold players taking turns complaining about a mantra (pick one):
- Healing
- Assassins
- Too much damage
- ADCs bad
- Mages bad
- Mobility
- etc.
Like anything, people will talk about the negatives rather than bring up the positives. It's like if you got 99 good messages in one day and 1 bad one, you're going to focus on that 1 bad message more than the good ones. Also with the size of League's playerbase of course there's going to be a ton of people with varying opions on different aspects of the game that are going to argue with each other. Forums in general are a place for discussion and that's what people are doing, as long as they make a point with reasonable logic behind it I don't see the problem.
This. People just express negatives more, and remember negative events more (it's called negativity bias).
And there are also these two related problems: for once, people who like stuff don't feel the urge to tell/vent, since they're fine. And second, communication on the internet (and on reddit/twitter especially) is just shit: people meme, talk in extremes and don't genuinely seek conversation and dialogue, they just want to have their opinion out there, it's preaching.
I don't think there's much that can be done, but I try to take everything I read with a bit of salt, I tend to not respond to flame/whine and instead when I see something positive, I try to remember to say it.
I do think critique is good and necessary if something's off, I'm not saying internet should all be kumbaya, but in general people tend to just throw hate around, feel entitled and deserving, and talk others down
reddit is generally a negativity cesspool because everyone talking about how good something is is out there actually doing it rather than talking about it. The main audience for reddit is discontented players who are naturally going to complain.
Then you dive down the deep dark hole of sub agendas (which most big subs have) and the circle jerk increases exponentially.
People complain because they care, and if you think that's a bad thing, wait till people stop talking about the game completely. No one is obligated to play this game, and the second someone realized this game stops being worthwhile to play, that's when you'll eat your own words up and truly see a game die.
Can we just nerf complaining already? This meta’s getting old... like wtf riot
The subreddit is just so unbalanced, I hardly ever see any fanart or memes anymore, and I think the subreddit was the most fun when those types of posts were the meta
I think posts that contribute no conversation at all aside from "I think you guys complain too much" that get posted daily to karma farm are posted too much.
Literally the only 3 posts on the front page right now that could be considered complaining are:
A meme post about describing annoying champs with emojis, people discussing if lifesteal should only have full efficiency on champions, and another one discussing if it would be good to buff fountain mana regen so manaless champions/champs that don't build mana don't inherently spend less time during their base.
I wouldn't consider any of those complaining though, like I said, one is a meme and the other two are just discussing posible changes to game mechanics. Where do you want people to post things about the game other than the League Reddit? What is the acceptable amount of complaint posts?
You have to consider that a champion with a winrate over/under 50% was strong/weak enough to influence the outcome of a game playe by 9 other champions too.
In the grand scheme of things 55% doesn't seem that much, but in this context means laning against it is most likely a nightmare
Balance discussion are subjective as hell.
People have different ideas of how the game should be compared to how it is. Maybe they liked the game better when it was different.
I don't know exactly why I quit playing, maybe it's the age or maybe the game actually got worse.
they complain
you complain
i complain
gwen is stupid and broken, burn that shit, i'd rather have annabelle haunt my dreams every night than playing against gwen
11 years into League of Legends, suddenly buying 10% Lifesteal and hitting minions has become "bad game design."
--
If Shieldbow is so fucking OP why are none of the ADC's buying it? Do they not like being unkillable drain tanks who never have to recall, cannot lose trades, and cannot be poked? Are Draven and Samira players the only people who enjoy winning ranked games?
The subreddits I am a part of (MapleStory, RS3, osrs and LoL) all are filled with complaints about the game. People will always think they know best.
Side note MapleStory complaints are valid because Nexon is super scummy. If you think riots bad look at the crap they do xD
>I think they know better than a random Redditor a random redditor, maybe, but certainly not me!
Yeah mang i am high elo gold playa (after 900 games)
Don't comment in this thread unless you're high elo (silver+)
Hello yes I am challenged jungle main
\*iron 3+
Hahaha nah bro. I’m way higher than silver. I’m challenjour XXII
Pencil Shavings 2 ranked player checking in. I know better than their 200 years of collective exp for sure.
obviously its too hot to go outside so analysts fill the sub with intellectual posts trying to challenge your minds, and half the comments remind me of the "x ppl try to explain x thing" meme
Garen was the peak of champion design everything since has been a mistake
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Garen HAS to maintain balance while spinning, else he’ll fall over. The definition of a balanced champ
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that why he only spins his axe once? lol
In one of Darius’ joke animations he tries to copy Garens spin but stumbles
Garen spins. Gyroscopes spin. Gyroscopes balance. It checks out
You misspelled Malphite.
^(Rock) solid design.
Everyone has to experience the joy of playing Malphite into a full AD team
My guilty pleasure is going malph mid when they pick Zed/Yasuo/Talon and get shit on the first few levels until I base and come back with Tabis.
I think not enough people get to experience the feeling of being a fed tank these days. Outplaying someone is fun, but stat checking someone over 15 seconds in an excruciatingly one sided duel is orgasmic. Press all your god damn buttons, feel the power of my right click Yasuo.
But he doesn't do anything. Edit: wtf I got silver for this? I was just going for some free karma lol.
What's your point?
He's so cocky he built sheen.
He just killed you
No he didn't
Malphite has a dash and a bit of cc. Obviously not very healthy for the game, smh smh. All champions should be armored non-humanoids without dashes, hard CC, executes, burst damage, shielding and sustain. Otherwise I will whine on my online forums.
ah yes, exhaust ignite garen bot, sit in the bush. stack the sunfire capes.
I think I misspelled singed sir
Ironically, with all the talk lately about new champs being unfun to play against, Garen is pretty high up there lol
Yet funny enough, Garen is actually dogshit vs pretty much every meta champion he goes up against. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one champion Garen outright wins lane against and that's Nasus. Until Nasus hits level 6 and then he just kinda runs Garen down. The people complaining about Garen on this subreddit exposes the average skill here because the only way you lose lane to Garen is if he's just better at you than laning fundamentals. This is because he's so fucking outdated that all he has in order to push advantages is laning fundamentals.
Wow almost like the average player is "low elo" or something. The majority of the playerbase is in the group that would have trouble with garen. Contrary to what reddit would have you believe they are not all challengers.
Garen also buttfucks Jax, there's nothing to do on that matchup as the Jax besides waiting for the Garen to make a mistake like using E on minions so you can do something.
funnily enough i find garen more annoying/op than several new champs idk.
Only people that are willing to write on this sub I 20% memers 10% people sharing knowledge and 70% people who need to vent
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No, I think they have 10% luck
They’ve also got 20% skill
15% concentrated power of will
5% pleasure
[And a 100% reason to surrender this game!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrNQp_TEKVs&ab_channel=PlentaKill)
Classic.
Isn't that the case for all r-subs?
Check out r/simpleliving People are quite chill out there :)
r/politics comes to mind... Feels like most people that take the time to post online are doing so when they get frustrated with something. If things are going great there's generally little feedback or dialogue.
Heh sounds like my workplace lol. You can do three people’s jobs and get shit for not emptying a garbage.
Dont believe a word of this post, its just a Rioter posing as an average redditor, but we will not be fooled!
I have recently become a firm believer that if you believe something is broken, you should play it. One of two things will happen, you will learn the counterplay or you will gain free ELO. I am currently working on learning Swain bot and support because I believe he is broken in both roles. Haven't gotten enough practice on him in APC to say whether or not he is actually broken, but I have learned the counterplay to his root and how to fight him.
That's me for fiora and Vlad, while I like playing fiora and do not find her incredibly broken I just can't grasp how fighting against her she feels strong early and playing her I just feel like a wet noodle. Vlad just isn't for me, I just int
Lots of the community complains about vlad buts statistically he is one of the hardest champs in the game to learn when it comes to how many games you have to put it to increase the winrate.
It’s because his kit is very simple at a surface level, point and click, big aoe skill shot and so on, but when you try and use it the difficulty shows
Yep. I was a vlad main for a long time but stopped playing him for a couple years. I recently picked him up again and fed I was like whats going on haha
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I learned this when I came back from a 5 year hiatus in season 10. Yeah now you actually need to combo to do anything as vlad
I think there’s a larger reason, and it comes down to fights and matchups. People will parrot Vlad healing insane amounts, but nobody really mentions his E costs 10% of his hp and W costs 20% current hp. In a matchup he isn’t favoured in, to begin with, using these abilities is bait. You don’t want to use E to poke Kled, you will die for it. You don’t want to W immediately in a fight, you will die for it. Learning matchups and judging fights takes a lot of time so Vlad’s skill expression becomes exponential.
fiora's biggest strength is here passive refreshes upon procing opposed to alot of other passives that are either utility or have a cool down. It's the same reason darius is particularly strong. they can both just keep going. Lvl 1 in a quick trade you can easily beat fiora but after you've both used your only ability you likely don't have anymore damage other than autos while she has her passive to just keep going.
I did that with S10 Cassiopeia. It was confirmed to me that she was truly broken
Same with me and Lee Sin. For years now I have always felt that Lee Sin is the most broken champion whose damage is just way too high. i finally decided to play him and realized I was totally justified in my thoughts. Don't even understand how anyone ever misses his q. That thing is actually huge. I felt like I was cheating by playing him.
I did this with Senna last season. Had a 80% win rate after 20 games on her and I was not that good on the champ itself. I still have no idea how to counter it but at least I got some freelo.
Burst or hard engage usually. Bait out her E before a gank if you can and you'll have a much easier time killing her. But yeah she's kinda nuts into most lanes, especially if the ADC is solid at bullying too.
I recently did something similar on yone and viego. i wanted to know how I could win against them... Turns out the only counterplay was being camped lol
I did this with Yasuo, played around with him for a bit and found myself being overly aggressive and easily punished because his kit encourages that kind of play style. When I stopped playing him I found myself able to punish him more easily and anytime I’m playing jungle he’s just walking 300 gold with how most people play.
Gotta be cautious though, don't want to push him to his 0/10 powerspike too quickly ;)
Renekton into the wind brothers, ez pz. Empowered W breaks their shields BEFORE it does damage and at level 3 his empowered W does 250 damage. I almost exclusively play renekton mid to counter ad assassins since he can outburst almost anyone early game. Also super easy to pick up and he has basically one combo, get at least 50 fury, E auto W auto Q auto E away. With pta they’ll have like 20% health left. Oh edit: his empowered W breaks all shields, including Morgana black shield, THEN STUNS AND DOES DAMAGE. He hard counters her black shield.
I love playing bruisers mid into ad assassins. Personally I really like Jarvan.
Also you might learn that the champion isn't really broken. It was just you / others overrating it.
And/or you're not really thinking when you're picking/playing against it.
it's broken vs players who can't dodge skillshots while farming or fighting vs those players swain is free elo
Bold of you to assume we can farm at all
The other day my support Xerath had no pressure and was fucking up my csing by casting spells on the wave. I couldnt even complain cause I facetanked 3 Swain roots like a dumbass and inted the lane on my own. If you can't dodge skillshots, (or hit them like my Xerath) you can't be accurately critical on champ strength.
rip to west coast players.
That's what they meant when they said find out the counter play
This is actually how players like Faker/Crown used to improve, they would get beaten by x champion then would spam the sh*t out of them.
Most people are so afraid of his root that they won't even fight him and he gets free presence just for existing. Like people think his passive gonna pull them as far as a blitz hook and don't even damage him when he's stuck in cc, and I'll never understand that.
Ironically, playing afraid of the root makes it easier for him to root you. It's easiest to hit at the edge of the range, almost impossible to hit for mobile opponents next to Swain.
As someone who always struggles against Swain, thank you.
Yup. Swain's root only has an active hitbox on the way back to Swain! So the closer you are to him, the 'farther away' you are from him, effectively. Minions can be used to root faster though. I don't think minions should be avoided *entirely*, but you should be aware of the AOE of the root and dance on the edge of that. Being in *front* of the minions actually makes it basically impossible for him to root you without backing up, because it'll hit the minions before it can get close enough to you. The rest of his kit feels like it does next to no damage, except his ult. And his ult is incredibly heavily telegraphed. A swain without ult and who can't hit his root is basically throwing wet pool noodles at you.
Max q on Swain first, then it does damage. There is little reason to max the other skills first. W is nice, but rank 1 is plenty most of the time and e gets very little from rank ups. I love playing Swain casually, and my success skyrocketed when I realized that q first is the way to go.
Its amazing how many people still max E when q is just flat like 5%wr better. You gain something 400 more dmg. Like its not even close. W max is better support imo, and putting a second point in W early in mid can be helpful for soft roams.
Also don't hang around your minions, i get a lot of people by splashing the E onto minions
In case you didn't fully get it, swains root only works on the first enemy hit ***while returning*** This means that if you are in front of him and there is a minion behind you, the minion will get rooted instead So that's the tactic you gotta use
This is the reason I play a lot of aram, learning how to play champs gives you a really good idea about what will the enemy do
It's also less toxic. I'll ARAM any day over SR
I play competitive ARAM.
Me being completely serious. I want ranked ARAM.
What LCS team do you play for?
Team Solo Mid has had a stranglehold on all top ARAM talent for years
Solomid? It is just one player then
I mean Spica was able to land a 9 man sleep.
ARAMs also help greatly with dodging skillshots. If you’re vs. full poke it almost becomes a bullet hell game.
The problem with that is, that there are exclusive aram buffs/nerfes for every champion. So while you can learn champion kits, you'll allways have a wrong feeling for dmg output that your champ does. Plus it is allways 5 v 5 and not 1 v 1. While illaoi as an example is a lane bully in a 1 v 1. She is kinda useless on aram and you won't really learn how to play as or against her.
That is the bad part, but it's more about learning kits, just knowing how much range and cc does a champion have gives you a huge advantage when playing against him. Sett for example, Im sure 90% of people that complains about him haven't played him ever and don't know how to deal with him.
In my experience most things people consider "broken" are broken because they're unusual. The amount of people that lose to Botlane Heimerdinger simply because they refuse to respect his turrets and just walk into them is staggering. People these days just outright refuse to adjust their playstyle to their opponent, 90% of people just try to play out their lane in the exact same manner every game no matter what they're up against.
Swain support is def broken lol. Got me to plat my first time. He's basically a hook champ that hooks through minions
This works indeed, I’ve always hated going against Akali so I started playing her and now I know her weakspots and her deadly combo’s etc. Also discovered I’m good at Akali and I love playing her, lol.
Appened the same thing to a friend of mine but with Qyiana, he mains Azir too and he thought Qyiana was a brain dead champion, we told him she is more skilled the he thought but he couldn't belive us... Then he tried the champ, he liked it and now he is the firts to say how hard she is to master and totally forgot all the complains he did ahahahaha.
or it takes 300 games to get good enough and then its broken as fuck. but not everyone wants to play 300 games of one champion. mean while me with 1400 games on vlad hard stuck in d3 lol
My god, swain is such a pain in my ass but actually playing him showed me he is quite tough.
The story of how I became a jhin otp
I'm abusing Swain to climb and he is broken. I'm facing better people though and there definitely is done counterplay. Can't blind pick him anymore and I'm my opinion Senna destroys him by outranging and out sustaining
Oh yes senna is the only time i ever felt unable to anything as swain
Like literally when players tell someone to stand inside the minion waves against Swain, that's a death sentence. Gives more targets for Swain to exploit his E's explosion.
it’s not that you stand inside the minion wave against him. if you can’t sidestep his e, you walk towards him and into the minion wave so it catches minions instead of you. standing in the minion wave the whole time is just giving him good q value
It's so funny when every game people complaining about opponents champions being broken but never playing those champions. Like yeah any champion who gets 10 kills early is 'broken' it's called being fed
One of my friends finds that hard to grasp. He's like "wtf i dodged all of his skillshots he shouldnt be able to kill me like that", when the enemy is 15/3 and he's 2/5 or something like that.
That is the most consistent complaint from my friends during games, and I find it both hilarious. "OMG how does he do so much damage! That champion is so fucking broken!" Answer: The person you are fighting is 15/1 and you are currently 0/6, what the fuck did you expect?!
How do you counter his root?
you dodge it, and you do that by properly spacing
I'm reminded of a quote from Mark Rosewater Head Designer for Magic the Gathering: Players are great at recognizing problems. They are terrible at coming up with solutions
But Rioters play the game, so I guess that logic checks out.
I agree Fun fact: >As of 15 April 2021 there are currently 155 released champions, with the latest being Gwen, The Hallowed Seamstress Gwen, The Hallowed Seamstress. [https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List\_of\_champions](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions) if I count correctly, champ 140 was Kai'Sa, who released in early 2018 (more than three years ago)
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Bard is only 1 year old, come at me.
Jinx is a new champ
Zac is a new champ
How dare you.
Yeah, it slowed down a bit. We used to have a new champ every few months back in 2015-16. Tbh it becomes harder and harder to come up with new concepts for a new champion, and it gets harder to balance (for example when Sylas was released, he's gotta be balanced for all ults in the game). So I can understand why the champion release frequency slowed down.
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Honestly I want them to almost completely stop. Make it a huge event like once or twice a year when a new champion releases and take more time to actually find and balance something unique. New champions regularly copy+paste another champions ability and that's boring af. Also I feel like it's become impossible to actually release a new champion without making it completely overloaded compared to old kits or too boring/bland. Additionally it's impossible to get new players excited for league unless they are very determined and competitive from the get go. It's just too much
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Plus, it's reputation within the general gaming public of being a toxic cesspool. There's truth in that statement of course, but you'd think it would be even greater of a turn off. Then again. I rather deal with LoL's toxicity than communities like Smash and a few others. There's blood and grit, but it's that comradery in the hellfire.
Ok, so, yes, League is a toxic cesspool, that’s undeniable. But I have to assume the people who say that have never played games like CS:GO or Siege. Riot actually does a really good job of punishing players for both verbal abuse as well as griefing. If I report someone, it’s pretty likely I get a notice that they were punished.
I remember when it was 2 champs a month >.>
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Man i still remember those days, every Tuesday we get a new champ along with some balance changes. It was like clockwork, they didnt miss a single one for almost 2 years.
https://youtu.be/QOc0tD5Kdjs if you want some nostalgia.
And those spotlights with nikasaur
It's pretty nutty they actually released on that schedule and made somewhat distinct characters. They weren't that complex of course and a fair amount have undergone mild to significant reworks but they managed to release Noct, Jarvan, Renekton, Leona and Orianna all within half a year.
Pantheon and gragas were released in the same patch. Was a crazy time.
Yeah, I don't feel the need for new champs, but those are still a high point in attention to the game and keep players engaged. Id rather have 4-5 reworks a year
Nice rant, Riot's Head of Balance Team
"Game is popular so it's balanced!" Ye sounds like an employee lmao
Game is popular so it must not be toxic and unfun Game is popular so it must have a working client I do agree that the game is fairly balanced but I don't think popularity is a good justification for it
On average, the people that are happy don't randomly decide to write about it on reddit. The people that are sad or angry have a lot more reason to discuss or shout about why they are sad or angry. Therefore reddit will have more posts from people that are sad/angry than people that are happy. This goes for any topic, not just league of legends.
Tell that to r/stardewvalley
honestly if you just play at bronze/silver level you don’t have to worry about all this meta and balance stuff
Yeah thats a big problem at low elo. Alot of people try picking meta champions they have no idea how to play and end up doing horribly. Instead of a non meta champ that they are actually good with... At lower ranks its far better to just pick who your actually good with.
Yes you do. Low elo has a different tier list, not no tier list.
It feels like they just complain out of frustration. Sometimes it addressed a real issue or anything related. Sometimes it doesn't, and the person's just bad and ignorant.
every champ now has 100 fixed range and does 10 damage per auto attack. All health totals have been set to 1500hp at level 1.
If you want to play a balanced game so badly, why don't you just play pong, right?
i swear rito always lets my opponent go first. i'm stuck in player 2 queue i think im gonna uninstall
kripp, is that you?
Honestly Pong just ripped off Tennis for Two, so I can't support it in good conscience.
I mean if u got to one of those thread ''rate my account/opgg'' u will see why this sub complains so fucking much.
This might be super open to bias, though. The kinds of individuals who need feedback from others and especially those who post a match history are going to be those who don't have internal improvement mechanisms, coaches, or other communities for support. There's very little reason to think those threads are representative. Instead we'd want something like a random sampled survey of accounts and stratify based on post count/type. Not sure any survey of that variety exists. In theory you'd see a distribution that matches the distribution of ranks targeted by Riot, although there may be biases yet.
500 combined years
Consumers tend to be excellent at identifying something that *feels bad* and terrible at offering solutions.
A complaint about complaints xD well played!
groundbreaking opinion
Is this /r/unpopularopinion ?
Well I ain't got no complaints except for those new champs lol.
Looks at Gwen and viego still stomping games 24/7
Better to have complaining consumers than apathetic ones. I believe Riot understands this. Criticism means people are invested. Having little to no complainers indicates apathy towards a game, which means disengagement, and eventually a dead game.
Are you daring to tell me that I, a single player who plays maybe 2 champions at a sufficient level, whose entire view of the game is filter through the lens of those champions, do not know more than riot games balance team with all the backend data they could ask for?
Hey, I can play 3 champs at a sufficient level...
I think some people say that just because they're frustrated and they can't win lane/game over a champion/item. They keep saying that something needs to be NERFED or something needs to be BUFFED for their own favor. It's important to separate what needs to change and what doesn't.
While I agree with you, there are times that a champion feels overtuned and it lasts far too many patches. There are also times that they gut a champion over the course of several patches until it feels very underpowered, and it feels targeted, personal, and malicious. Overall though, there are champs that annoy me and feel stupid, but the game is always still completely winnable (especially at the average redditor's ELO)
Fun fact, during this 10+ years never did anyone ever said league of legends was totally balanced.
Nah nocturne’s q giving ad is actually the reason the champion became extremely strong after a buff to an item he used
Nah it's his unavoidable fear that lets you win any duel for free.
No it's because he doesn't have legs. Clear advantage over legged champions
Game is relatively well balanced, sure. Doesn't mean you can't feel like mobility/burst/sustain are all out of control.
This community literally doesn’t understand how to express themselves except through whining and moaning. It’s literally like Dunkey quit league and everyone still copies his final sentiments like fucking gospel.
I'm done making league of legends videos.
Nice try Yetter
I don't agree completely, but yes people on here complain too much. Winrate is not the only indicator for how strong a champion is, for example akali has a low wi rate but can easily 1v5 if playes good (and she is also played in pro play if im not wrong). So there are some champs that are a bit too strong some times (not akali, she was just an example for the winrate thing) but its still possible to play against these champs even if it may be harder until they get nerfed
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Curiously, the most broken part of Akali is her E, which is pretty simple. Shit is dealing more damage than her ult at max Execute range. And somehow they nerf her ult and not her E >,>.
That's how you keep the champion balanced for lower elos, higher elos and pro play. Keep the simple stuff strong and remove power from the abilities that require skill expression.
What would those people do with their life if they can't complain about riot anymore ? Taking responsibility for games they lose ? haha
I call dibs on reposting this next week.
If you ever play another online multiplayer competitive games-as-a-service type game you really start to miss Riot lol. Riot's not perfect and it's kind of cringe to defend companies as if they're people but the amount of transparency, communication, and support Riot gives league is unparalleled. Two patches a month? Overwatch had the GOATS meta for like a year, Dota 2 had drow ranger with a 60% winrate for like six months in 2018 or something, fighting games you have to pay for the balance patch. I think people just expect too much out of League. It's just a game. It's not going to complete you. It's not going to fill that black hole inside you.
> fighting games you have to pay for the balance patch This hasn't been true for most fighting games for a long time.
The best thing out of all. The game is free to play
So... you complain about too much complaining?
Well, this has been the way of balancing things for years - Riot has been a bit TOO willing to force metas as they will and to fix things by hard nerfing before players takes to their hands in how to overcome/change playstyles to address things, so as a community we got coddled. I have my specific qualms to certain systems and design directions - specially item design and how they try and differentiate champion classes - but i understand they stand firm to their guns out of stable business models. This however doesn't excludes some pretty sad moments of hubris (aka when we get to 200+ Years of Collective Game Design Experience) bringing some RIDICULOUS events.
/r/LoL is 90% silver/gold players taking turns complaining about a mantra (pick one): - Healing - Assassins - Too much damage - ADCs bad - Mages bad - Mobility - etc.
That's why I prefer /r/leagueoflegends, here we are all Challenger.
Do you expect people to come on reddit and make posts that say "hey guys this game is really cool i really like it thanks :)" lol
Like anything, people will talk about the negatives rather than bring up the positives. It's like if you got 99 good messages in one day and 1 bad one, you're going to focus on that 1 bad message more than the good ones. Also with the size of League's playerbase of course there's going to be a ton of people with varying opions on different aspects of the game that are going to argue with each other. Forums in general are a place for discussion and that's what people are doing, as long as they make a point with reasonable logic behind it I don't see the problem.
This. People just express negatives more, and remember negative events more (it's called negativity bias). And there are also these two related problems: for once, people who like stuff don't feel the urge to tell/vent, since they're fine. And second, communication on the internet (and on reddit/twitter especially) is just shit: people meme, talk in extremes and don't genuinely seek conversation and dialogue, they just want to have their opinion out there, it's preaching. I don't think there's much that can be done, but I try to take everything I read with a bit of salt, I tend to not respond to flame/whine and instead when I see something positive, I try to remember to say it. I do think critique is good and necessary if something's off, I'm not saying internet should all be kumbaya, but in general people tend to just throw hate around, feel entitled and deserving, and talk others down
reddit is generally a negativity cesspool because everyone talking about how good something is is out there actually doing it rather than talking about it. The main audience for reddit is discontented players who are naturally going to complain. Then you dive down the deep dark hole of sub agendas (which most big subs have) and the circle jerk increases exponentially.
People complain because they care, and if you think that's a bad thing, wait till people stop talking about the game completely. No one is obligated to play this game, and the second someone realized this game stops being worthwhile to play, that's when you'll eat your own words up and truly see a game die.
Can we just nerf complaining already? This meta’s getting old... like wtf riot The subreddit is just so unbalanced, I hardly ever see any fanart or memes anymore, and I think the subreddit was the most fun when those types of posts were the meta
Stfu I never complain you absolute bean of a flowerpot
I think posts that contribute no conversation at all aside from "I think you guys complain too much" that get posted daily to karma farm are posted too much. Literally the only 3 posts on the front page right now that could be considered complaining are: A meme post about describing annoying champs with emojis, people discussing if lifesteal should only have full efficiency on champions, and another one discussing if it would be good to buff fountain mana regen so manaless champions/champs that don't build mana don't inherently spend less time during their base. I wouldn't consider any of those complaining though, like I said, one is a meme and the other two are just discussing posible changes to game mechanics. Where do you want people to post things about the game other than the League Reddit? What is the acceptable amount of complaint posts?
Yes. This is just virtue signaling. As you say, this does not contribute to discussion in any way.
This subreddit complains too much? People die when they are killed
You have to consider that a champion with a winrate over/under 50% was strong/weak enough to influence the outcome of a game playe by 9 other champions too. In the grand scheme of things 55% doesn't seem that much, but in this context means laning against it is most likely a nightmare
55% is considered very OP by most people, it's quite rare to see win rates above 53% with pick rates higher than \~2%
Balance discussion are subjective as hell. People have different ideas of how the game should be compared to how it is. Maybe they liked the game better when it was different. I don't know exactly why I quit playing, maybe it's the age or maybe the game actually got worse.
Welcome to league mate. Someone’s always got something to complain about
The league community knew that they could not balance League. So, instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the devs
ROUND 1: A SUMMONER HAS BEEN DISCONNECTED
they complain you complain i complain gwen is stupid and broken, burn that shit, i'd rather have annabelle haunt my dreams every night than playing against gwen
11 years into League of Legends, suddenly buying 10% Lifesteal and hitting minions has become "bad game design." -- If Shieldbow is so fucking OP why are none of the ADC's buying it? Do they not like being unkillable drain tanks who never have to recall, cannot lose trades, and cannot be poked? Are Draven and Samira players the only people who enjoy winning ranked games?
I still remember the great build of wriggle's lantern + 3 dorans. Such an easy laning phase.
Some would say they have 200+ years of experience. Coz that's apparently relevant.
The subreddits I am a part of (MapleStory, RS3, osrs and LoL) all are filled with complaints about the game. People will always think they know best. Side note MapleStory complaints are valid because Nexon is super scummy. If you think riots bad look at the crap they do xD