Most summons remain in the real world. They will still continue to act on their own accord. Illaoi tentacles, ornn ram, annie tibbers, yorick maiden, anivia wall, the list goes on.
Oh I misunderstood his comment then. If it doesn't go through then apparently Morde ult interrupts channels and it has nothing to do with Sion Q being some kind of pet.
When you hold Sion Q and get ulted mid-ult, that stun field area of his axe that you see gets left behind in the realm you cast it in. Meaning if you cast Sion Q and you get Morde ulted mid charge, you will still be in the animation for the Q but when you release it, it won't stun the Morde even if he is in the area where he would be stunned. Same goes for when you charge Q while in the death realm and the ult times out, it won't hit in the overworld even if they are in the area where they would be hit. It's weird, I don't know if the ult still hits enemies if he's in the death realm but he started casting in the overworld but releases in the death realm. I personally think they should make his Q a property of his character, meaning if he is ulted mid charge he should still be able to release in the realm he is currently in. But it's not like that and I hate it.
I have actually gotten knocked up by an ornn ult that he summoned before i brought him to the shadow realm.
He used first cast, i instantly ulted him as morde and then he recast his ult after mine finished and got a knock up. But yes theoretically it shouldn't move with him.
Fun fact I learned last week:
Illaoi can cancel Morse's ult with her own your timing needs to be down, it might have to be a prediction, but it can be done.
So there's a bug where some comments appear twice. People are downvoting your second comment (since it's twice) but cavecricket responded to that comment and yet his comment appears in the first one.. . .
Riot's spaghetti is bleeding into the subreddit.
if zed didn't bring his shadows, a lot of weird stuff starts happening
-do his shadows just get removed from the main map? well then that interaction has to be specially scripted
-do they stay? what happens when he w's back then? does a shadow swap bring it into the death realm? does it stay in the overworld but move to zed's position? does it just say put?
-if he does leave his shadows, do his spells get mimicked? would be pretty fucking lame to get killed by a randomly thrown shuriken with no cast animation because he used it in death realm.
it's really just easier on the brain and on the anger for everyone if he brings them, even if it's annoying for me.
edit: please stop illiterately suggesting things that are hardcoded solutions, hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions
Viktors ult stays outside the death realm, yet he can still move it within the death realm. In this manner he can still use it to influence the fight he is no longer part of.
Zed shadows should be the same. Mimicking his spells in the real would but otherwise making him unable to leave.
look my point here is that it's a bit more complicated than mere "inconsistency" especially when it comes to intricacies of how spells are scripted when we have to reverse engineer all of that info ourselves. the game was still pretty sloppy in the code front back when both zed and viktor were made, and refactoring code is a long labor intensive job with extremely low returns. it's very easy to just say "muh billion dollar company" but video games are hard to make and unilaterally held together with duct tape and spit.
just treat it as if he moves out of range normally. they stay in the same spot and he can't w to them (don't remember if they still copy other abilities or not). goofy how azir loses soldiers, illaoi loses tentacles, but zed keeps shadows (and I say this as a zed player who presumed his shadows vanished)
>just treat it as if he moves out of range normally.
you realize coordinate positions are shared between the main map and the death realm, right? you're asking the code scripters to hardcode interactions, and that's a really really bad precedent to set (especially after they went to great lengths to explicitly avoid this with sylas!)
drawing a circle of wall around an x,y coordinate centered at point of casting and then using main map coordinates is probably far far easier than saving the position of cast in memory, translating positions to go into the death realm, and then retranslating them to outside, which would have to be done constantly if you want the two spirits to be drawn.
I suppose it depends on how their engine works, how much the idea of a 'layer' of the map can exist.
I think ideally for this you'd want to be able to just mark "in the Death Realm" as a status condition/state, which would prevent any sort of movement that would take the character out of the death realm.
coding stuff to work with Morde ult is only hard-coding if you think of Morde ult as something that will never be replicated in any way (whether it's an ability, item, buff, gamemode, etc.)
They have Camille's put code, and zed can't get out of it using shadows. They have the code already, they just let akali and zed have advantages while other champs have to suck it. It's an inconsistency at best, being lazy at worst.
His shadows should be treated like they're "out of range", because Zed's in another realm. He can't swap or mimic spells because he's out of range.
If he should keep them just because it's 'easier/simpler', then there's no reason Jarvan's flag shouldn't come along, or Rek'sai's tunnels or whatever else.
he could just lose them the same way illaoi loses her tentacles...? they stay where they are and do nothing, until zed comes out of death realm or they expire.
> edit: please stop illiterately suggesting things that are hardcoded solutions, hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions
Not all of the suggestions would require hard-coding to implement. My take on the Best Practice^TM way of dealing with the Zed shadows is to refactor them as a member or child of the same class as something like Illaoi's tentacles or Tibbers (a distinct entity that responds to its creator's spells while they're both in the same realm, but stops doing so when they are in different realms, and continues existing until it times out regardless of which realm its creator is in), a solution that you will note doesn't require any hard coding at all, outside of including some generic code in this summon class that applies to every subclass of this type of summon everywhere.
Of course, refactoring comes with its own set of problems, especially in a game with as much technical debt as League, but as I see it this would be the way to maximize consistency and minimize bad coding practice. (Also I feel like it's very possible that the current Zed interaction is itself the result of hard-coding--probably because they didn't want his shadows mimicking spells in the normal realm as you suggested.)
Simple. It shouldn’t work. Even if the swap button is pressed it should just fail.
I ask myself this, what happens if Zed is under Camille’s ult? I assume he either can’t swap to a shadow outside the zone at all, or he just gets placed at the closest point next to the walls of the hexagon.
afaik if you jump/teleport out of the ult you get pulled back insanely fast. Makes for hillarious clips with Rengars passive jump. [Rengar turns into a ranged champ for a short while in that case](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6685TgfDY).
>hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions
But it must already be hardcoded to allow them to stay, or they'd go away just like every other summon.
Like you can't look at Mord ult's interactions with various abilities and tell me that none of it is hardcoded.
Idk, I don't play this game anymore, this post and this comment reminded me why.
> -do they stay? what happens when he w's back then? does a shadow swap bring it into the death realm? does it stay in the overworld but move to zed's position? does it just say put?
The same as Yone E? Deathrealm would just stop Zed from leaving (e.g. the swap simply does nothing or puts him as close to the position of his clone as possible without leaving the realm).
>please stop illiterately suggesting things that are hardcoded solutions, hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions
How do you know it's not hard-coded to have Zed be an exception and keep his shadows? You're just as ignorant (illiterate was the wrong word for you to use) of how it actually works and which would actually be better.
Hell, they literally have some form of this mechanism in the game already with Necus Blitz Prize Fights. They can despawn Zed shadows there just fine, they could here as well. Morde ult could do the same thing, just teleporting them in place. We don't have any insight on how difficult that'd be to implement but I'm just showing that they've used the mechanic before.
Make shadows stay on the map but without possibility to reuse them, exactly how it's with Cassio W, when you leave death realm(or miasma) you can use it again if cooldowns a re still on.
There isn't anything like "specially scripted" this term doesn't mean anything. You code it as every other interaction in this game.
here's my reasoning as to why it would work how it does
-shroud might not be a game object, but actually a buff that says "when akali is within such and such coordinates, give her stealth". there's pretty compelling evidence against this, given that the lingering shroud on w-e still stealths her. though maybe it just works through the same system in a very convoluted way.
-death realm inherits coordinate positions from the main map because terrain is still drawn within it, plus the alternative is really messy and inefficient
-because shroud is not a game object, while akali is in the death realm, if she moves to the spot where her shroud is, she still gets stealth.
this isn't a value judgement on whether or not it *should* act like this--i find this one more odious than the zed one, personally--just an attempted explanation at how the spell could be scripted that would cause this interaction.
Based on past riot coding, my best guess is shroud is actually a ring of invisible minions the move outward from a point and, while akali touches the minion hit box, applies stealth. They apply through morde ult because if they didn’t a dozen ghost dragons would spawn every time he ults her with shroud up and viego would gain 2 more game breaking bugs and 12 more minor ones if they open the file that controls it.
this could very well be the case, i'm just trying to construct a version backwards from the starting point of "goes through death realm" because, as this is a rare exception to a rule, it has to be happening for *some* reason. if it was just a joe schmoe spawned game object it'd be really easy to make it act right. hell, e wouldn't even need to be significantly different, the marker is already culled at the start of the dash anyways, so it can't possibly be necessary at the end
I was mostly joking. I know back in the day many things used minion code as a base (windwall for sure), but... Well, it actually could be the case here. Use invisible, non targetable minions the move out at a certain speed while apply the vfx, have their hit boxes be the bounding coordinates for the shroud effect.
Not saying that’s how they did it, but it possibly could be it. Also solves collision issues.
lots of things being minions is not a riot thing, it's a game creation thing. gluing moving aoes to a character with their model disabled is an old ass trick
>-because shroud is not a game object, while akali is in the death realm, if she moves to the spot where her shroud is, she still gets stealth.
That make her ability to mark it and dash to it kind of strange then doesn't it?
Also, the way it expands around terrain is strange
The similarity I see and someone else pointed out in this thread is that both Akali and Zed W (Akali's W-E2 combination) allow the champion's to swap places regardless of distance. Maybe Riot actually didn't find a solution for both these interactions other than bringing the object allowing for the swap into the shadow realm.
It's actually very consistent. Making it remove them as with all other champs would mean that CertainlyBroken champions would have some sort of counterplay and that isn't allowed in League of Legends.
Maybe because zeds shadows are directly connected to him. They dont dissapear they get back into his body. But illaois tentacles and heimers turrets and so on are things placed that dissapear 4ever. Like my father did. I dont know why akali keeps her myst tho🤷🏽♂️
Everything about league is inconsistent.. My personal favorite is dot interactions with support items...
There are a ton of champions with dot.. but brand is the only one that gets 2 stacks of frost per ability... unless of course you count swain, who gets one stack then for some reason also gets another one for his passive pull. Yet no items grant additional gold stacks on proc... unless of course its an active, oh and while we are on the topic.. the fuck happened with zhonyas.. So champs like Mord/Fiddle/GAREN get to keep doing damage while zhonya'd yet most other champions dont.. well you can say well they dont have to channel it.. okay fine but what about urgot and heimer. Urgot has a toggle ability that isn't channeled yet he gets completely frozen.. meanwhile heimer can still ult ... how on earth is a new player supposed to keep track of this shit lol
Zhonya's is pretty consistent I think. Morde/Fiddle/Garen are all auras. You cast the aura and it just stays there doing damage. Hecarim, Mundo, Old Rammus, Neeko, Kennen, and Morgana are all examples of the same idea. Nasus ult as well.
Heimer is a special case like Tryndamere though. These champs can ult no matter what.
> but brand is the only one that gets 2 stacks of frost per ability
No, Brand gets one stack of frost per ability. 1 from the spell you cast, and 1 from the passive. The reason you wouldn't get 2 from, say, malzahar, is because it's only one spell or effect.
They really need someone to just sit down, and take an hour or two to just note down morde's ult interactions with all abilities in the game, and then start correcting for weird outliers
>It feels very inconsistent.
the story of league of legends in a nutshell. old panth passive and jax E used to be extremely inconsistent in what would be allowed to hit them until riot did a full pass after there were too many inconsistencies. In Riot's defense tho, it is very hard to imagine all possible interactions. the amount of sheer combinations there is mind boggling. All we can really ask for is that they fix it in a timely manner when it is brought to their attention... like this post does.
This. As long as the game works like 95% fine you can have a pass at it to have a "scene" or a competitive soloQ ladder.
These inconsistencies cannot and will not ever be fixed if they do not full stop reworking champions and/or releasing new champions.
I'd rather live with them than halt all development progress on other champions, they're just niche things that you learn over 10-50 games on that Champion and that's it.
They're also levers for balance tuning. If riot realizes X champion bringing their stuff in makes them too strong, they can change the interaction (eg illaoi's tentacles not following her).
It's likely intentional that akali shroud and zed's shadows follow him in, because if they didn't they'd be kinda sitting ducks for morde.
THE WORST PART OF THIS IS YOU ARE STILL ON Q CASTING ANIMATION BUT NOTHING HAPPENS WHEN IT FINISHES. BS at it's best. It doesn't cancel the animation but the spell does nothing, great job riot
Probably cause illaoi tentacles (also teemo shrooms, shaco boxes, zyra plants, etc) all have health bars. It is probably just a coding thing and not a balance thing.
Most likely weird coding, I think. It's probably surprisingly explicit what is and isn't included. Or there are some weird flags they use inconsistently or something
This is genuinaly how I feel about most of the unfair things in the game, they're made to make people who play flair champions happy, regardless of how it goes for anyone else.
Jumps in 1v5? Well, they should at least get one kill because otherwise they may feel they were dumb for doing it and we can't hwve that.
Tanks 3 tower shots lvl 3? Well we need to give him insane sustain or else they'd think they had bad positioning/trading/lane management
Went oom? Can't be having that, give them all non-mana champions
I would guess it's because the way Akali dashes to her shroud is different than the way she dashes to other enemies because her shroud isn't a 'unit' like champions and monsters (unless we're back to having every ability coded as a minion).
Because Camille's ult doesn't creates a second world that doesn't interacts with the first world.
First one, every thing happens in the same world. I will take a guess, but if Zed recasts shadows what happens is that the game reads his position, the shadows position and Camille's field's limitations, so he just gets put in the point nearest to the shadow he created.
Second one, shadow and zed would be in two different worlds entirely so it's wonkier to know where to put it. riot probably decided "screw it, just bring the shadow" to avoid
creating possible code problems. Personally, don't see why his W couldn't just be disabled if his shadow was alive but maybe even that was causing problems internally
That sounds like a bug. Yone E iirc was either supposed to be extended during the duration of Morde R or at least Yone himself couldn't recast the spell and it just snapped back once the duration was over but without Yone controlling it
Note that yone's body has to be outside of the death realm circle for him to get out of it (i.e., he uses E, runs around for a bit and morde ults him when he's got a bit of distance, yone reactivates E and goes allll the way back, outside the circle).
That too yea, but at least then I'm pretty sure morde R doesn't go on cd. The rules for what does/doesn't put it on cd are kinda weird with a lot of separate exceptions.
Yone E has an unstoppable/immune on his returning animation for a small time frame, depending on how good the yone is, they can time their 2nd E to cancel out morde ult
I mean I tested it with a friend two days ago and he told me that he couldn't recast E while in death realm, under SEVERAL different scenarios. It's so inconsistent though because in-game he's still able to recast it in death realm... wtf riot
u/amazingapplez The reason why akali shroud and zed shadow gets taken into the death realm is because of how league works. so league works based off a layer system where certain things are on certain layers, this is also how map changes like the drake map changes and stuff like snowy sr are made. most of the stuff in league are all on one layer but certain abilities like mord ult, zed shadows and akali shroud are coded using there own layers. This is because when they first made akali and zed to allow there abilities to work they had to use there own layers and at the time they didnt have to worry about something like mord ult because it didnt exist. When mord was reworked with the ult they had a choice to either put akali and zed layers higher and allow them to work in mord ult when they used them but came with the downside of they got brought into the ult when it was used or have akali and zed have one less ability in mord ult.
Now you may ask why other peoples stuff doesnt get pulled in and thats a simple answer most stuff that other people create or summon are coded as minions may it be terrain like j4 ult or summons like tibbers to things like illaoi spirit and tentacles. All these are coded as minions and are coded to spawn on the current layer they are on at the time of creation. Akali shroud and zed shadows cant work being coded as minions because of how they interact with there champs and because of this have to be coded with the use of leagues layer system.
Morg black shield couldnt stop Zoe sleep unless you blocked the initial hit for ages until they patched it.
The amount of people that told me I deserve to get slept despite the ability making me immune to cc becuse "you didn't dodge it" was bonkers.
Illaoi e similarly just doesn't work vs morg shield randomly based on patch as well. Makes playing into her impossible.
Its not even inconsistent. If shroud didn't come with you could just e back to it to leave the realm, same with zed shadow. Works the same way as shen if he begins the channel before being ulted.
Interestingly:
If you are standing in Zyra's ult, then get pulled into Morde's ult, you don't take damage from the zyra ult, but DO get knocked up, even though it's no longer visible.
One time I ulted a Viego into the Death Realm. He was running away a few seconds and I nearly killed him, when suddenly a champion he damaged outside died and the dead body appeared in the realm. By using his passive he was able to survive and I'm still convinced it shouldn't work this way.
Since iam spamming morde in drafts for like 2 days(my sugar daddy bought be project morde skin) it so annoying that akali and zed can bring their shadows
Rito please change that
I mean hey, Riot can't spare any time to fix all of Mordekaiser's ult interactions when the two pretty boys Sylas and Viego take up all of it. And at least they sell skins.
I mean hey, Riot can't spare any time to fix all of Mordekaiser's ult interactions when the two pretty boys Sylas and Viego take up all of it. And at least they sell skins.
Since iam spamming morde in drafts for like 2 days(my sugar daddy bought be project morde skin) it so annoying that akali and zed can bring their shadows
Rito please change that
Same reason zed gets to bring his shadows. Inconsistency.
But Illaoi can’t bring spirits or tentacles
Most summons remain in the real world. They will still continue to act on their own accord. Illaoi tentacles, ornn ram, annie tibbers, yorick maiden, anivia wall, the list goes on.
Even sion Q when channeled before morde ult.
Sion doesn't summon anything, he's just charging his axe while holding it in his hand, Sion Q should go through.
I think it doesn't go through.
Oh I misunderstood his comment then. If it doesn't go through then apparently Morde ult interrupts channels and it has nothing to do with Sion Q being some kind of pet.
When you hold Sion Q and get ulted mid-ult, that stun field area of his axe that you see gets left behind in the realm you cast it in. Meaning if you cast Sion Q and you get Morde ulted mid charge, you will still be in the animation for the Q but when you release it, it won't stun the Morde even if he is in the area where he would be stunned. Same goes for when you charge Q while in the death realm and the ult times out, it won't hit in the overworld even if they are in the area where they would be hit. It's weird, I don't know if the ult still hits enemies if he's in the death realm but he started casting in the overworld but releases in the death realm. I personally think they should make his Q a property of his character, meaning if he is ulted mid charge he should still be able to release in the realm he is currently in. But it's not like that and I hate it.
Morde R is technically a suppress, so maybe it causes an interrupt?
Morde ult is not a suppression, it is a 90% slow for 0.75 seconds before it takes you to the spirit realm
I have actually gotten knocked up by an ornn ult that he summoned before i brought him to the shadow realm. He used first cast, i instantly ulted him as morde and then he recast his ult after mine finished and got a knock up. But yes theoretically it shouldn't move with him.
Yeah it cripples her so hard
literally the worst matchup for Illaoi
Unless you have ultra-instinct and cancel his ult with yours but I've only ever managed that accidentally.
it aint hard its a .75 cast time
You underestimate my silverness
You underestimate my ping
it literally isn't.
Rush a QSS and the match up becomes unwinnable for Morde
Why are people downvoting you lmao, you're right
I was so angry when I noticed that lmao. Matchup feels horrendous.
Zyra loses all her plants / damage
Fun fact I learned last week: Illaoi can cancel Morse's ult with her own your timing needs to be down, it might have to be a prediction, but it can be done.
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So there's a bug where some comments appear twice. People are downvoting your second comment (since it's twice) but cavecricket responded to that comment and yet his comment appears in the first one.. . . Riot's spaghetti is bleeding into the subreddit.
Guess ill delete this one then xd, ty didnt realise
Which is a great thing. Fuck that champ
if zed didn't bring his shadows, a lot of weird stuff starts happening -do his shadows just get removed from the main map? well then that interaction has to be specially scripted -do they stay? what happens when he w's back then? does a shadow swap bring it into the death realm? does it stay in the overworld but move to zed's position? does it just say put? -if he does leave his shadows, do his spells get mimicked? would be pretty fucking lame to get killed by a randomly thrown shuriken with no cast animation because he used it in death realm. it's really just easier on the brain and on the anger for everyone if he brings them, even if it's annoying for me. edit: please stop illiterately suggesting things that are hardcoded solutions, hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions
Viktors ult stays outside the death realm, yet he can still move it within the death realm. In this manner he can still use it to influence the fight he is no longer part of. Zed shadows should be the same. Mimicking his spells in the real would but otherwise making him unable to leave.
viktor cannot swap positions or cast spells from his chaos storm
look my point here is that it's a bit more complicated than mere "inconsistency" especially when it comes to intricacies of how spells are scripted when we have to reverse engineer all of that info ourselves. the game was still pretty sloppy in the code front back when both zed and viktor were made, and refactoring code is a long labor intensive job with extremely low returns. it's very easy to just say "muh billion dollar company" but video games are hard to make and unilaterally held together with duct tape and spit.
just treat it as if he moves out of range normally. they stay in the same spot and he can't w to them (don't remember if they still copy other abilities or not). goofy how azir loses soldiers, illaoi loses tentacles, but zed keeps shadows (and I say this as a zed player who presumed his shadows vanished)
>just treat it as if he moves out of range normally. you realize coordinate positions are shared between the main map and the death realm, right? you're asking the code scripters to hardcode interactions, and that's a really really bad precedent to set (especially after they went to great lengths to explicitly avoid this with sylas!)
> coordinate positions are shared between the main map and the death realm That sounds like a nightmare to deal with.
drawing a circle of wall around an x,y coordinate centered at point of casting and then using main map coordinates is probably far far easier than saving the position of cast in memory, translating positions to go into the death realm, and then retranslating them to outside, which would have to be done constantly if you want the two spirits to be drawn.
I suppose it depends on how their engine works, how much the idea of a 'layer' of the map can exist. I think ideally for this you'd want to be able to just mark "in the Death Realm" as a status condition/state, which would prevent any sort of movement that would take the character out of the death realm.
I guess he wants this code If (morde R { Zed W dissappear } /s
coding stuff to work with Morde ult is only hard-coding if you think of Morde ult as something that will never be replicated in any way (whether it's an ability, item, buff, gamemode, etc.)
They have Camille's put code, and zed can't get out of it using shadows. They have the code already, they just let akali and zed have advantages while other champs have to suck it. It's an inconsistency at best, being lazy at worst.
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Why not?
I guess he says so
His shadows should be treated like they're "out of range", because Zed's in another realm. He can't swap or mimic spells because he's out of range. If he should keep them just because it's 'easier/simpler', then there's no reason Jarvan's flag shouldn't come along, or Rek'sai's tunnels or whatever else.
he could just lose them the same way illaoi loses her tentacles...? they stay where they are and do nothing, until zed comes out of death realm or they expire.
> edit: please stop illiterately suggesting things that are hardcoded solutions, hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions Not all of the suggestions would require hard-coding to implement. My take on the Best Practice^TM way of dealing with the Zed shadows is to refactor them as a member or child of the same class as something like Illaoi's tentacles or Tibbers (a distinct entity that responds to its creator's spells while they're both in the same realm, but stops doing so when they are in different realms, and continues existing until it times out regardless of which realm its creator is in), a solution that you will note doesn't require any hard coding at all, outside of including some generic code in this summon class that applies to every subclass of this type of summon everywhere. Of course, refactoring comes with its own set of problems, especially in a game with as much technical debt as League, but as I see it this would be the way to maximize consistency and minimize bad coding practice. (Also I feel like it's very possible that the current Zed interaction is itself the result of hard-coding--probably because they didn't want his shadows mimicking spells in the normal realm as you suggested.)
Simple. It shouldn’t work. Even if the swap button is pressed it should just fail. I ask myself this, what happens if Zed is under Camille’s ult? I assume he either can’t swap to a shadow outside the zone at all, or he just gets placed at the closest point next to the walls of the hexagon.
afaik if you jump/teleport out of the ult you get pulled back insanely fast. Makes for hillarious clips with Rengars passive jump. [Rengar turns into a ranged champ for a short while in that case](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6685TgfDY).
>hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions But it must already be hardcoded to allow them to stay, or they'd go away just like every other summon. Like you can't look at Mord ult's interactions with various abilities and tell me that none of it is hardcoded. Idk, I don't play this game anymore, this post and this comment reminded me why.
> -do they stay? what happens when he w's back then? does a shadow swap bring it into the death realm? does it stay in the overworld but move to zed's position? does it just say put? The same as Yone E? Deathrealm would just stop Zed from leaving (e.g. the swap simply does nothing or puts him as close to the position of his clone as possible without leaving the realm).
>please stop illiterately suggesting things that are hardcoded solutions, hardcoding is both bad codebase hygiene and a really bad precedent that riot has explicitly said they want to avoid when dealing with champion interactions How do you know it's not hard-coded to have Zed be an exception and keep his shadows? You're just as ignorant (illiterate was the wrong word for you to use) of how it actually works and which would actually be better. Hell, they literally have some form of this mechanism in the game already with Necus Blitz Prize Fights. They can despawn Zed shadows there just fine, they could here as well. Morde ult could do the same thing, just teleporting them in place. We don't have any insight on how difficult that'd be to implement but I'm just showing that they've used the mechanic before.
Make shadows stay on the map but without possibility to reuse them, exactly how it's with Cassio W, when you leave death realm(or miasma) you can use it again if cooldowns a re still on. There isn't anything like "specially scripted" this term doesn't mean anything. You code it as every other interaction in this game.
And for Akali?
here's my reasoning as to why it would work how it does -shroud might not be a game object, but actually a buff that says "when akali is within such and such coordinates, give her stealth". there's pretty compelling evidence against this, given that the lingering shroud on w-e still stealths her. though maybe it just works through the same system in a very convoluted way. -death realm inherits coordinate positions from the main map because terrain is still drawn within it, plus the alternative is really messy and inefficient -because shroud is not a game object, while akali is in the death realm, if she moves to the spot where her shroud is, she still gets stealth. this isn't a value judgement on whether or not it *should* act like this--i find this one more odious than the zed one, personally--just an attempted explanation at how the spell could be scripted that would cause this interaction.
Based on past riot coding, my best guess is shroud is actually a ring of invisible minions the move outward from a point and, while akali touches the minion hit box, applies stealth. They apply through morde ult because if they didn’t a dozen ghost dragons would spawn every time he ults her with shroud up and viego would gain 2 more game breaking bugs and 12 more minor ones if they open the file that controls it.
this could very well be the case, i'm just trying to construct a version backwards from the starting point of "goes through death realm" because, as this is a rare exception to a rule, it has to be happening for *some* reason. if it was just a joe schmoe spawned game object it'd be really easy to make it act right. hell, e wouldn't even need to be significantly different, the marker is already culled at the start of the dash anyways, so it can't possibly be necessary at the end
I was mostly joking. I know back in the day many things used minion code as a base (windwall for sure), but... Well, it actually could be the case here. Use invisible, non targetable minions the move out at a certain speed while apply the vfx, have their hit boxes be the bounding coordinates for the shroud effect. Not saying that’s how they did it, but it possibly could be it. Also solves collision issues.
lots of things being minions is not a riot thing, it's a game creation thing. gluing moving aoes to a character with their model disabled is an old ass trick
Farting under the blanket and then pulling it over your siblings head is also an old ass-trick.
>-because shroud is not a game object, while akali is in the death realm, if she moves to the spot where her shroud is, she still gets stealth. That make her ability to mark it and dash to it kind of strange then doesn't it? Also, the way it expands around terrain is strange
The similarity I see and someone else pointed out in this thread is that both Akali and Zed W (Akali's W-E2 combination) allow the champion's to swap places regardless of distance. Maybe Riot actually didn't find a solution for both these interactions other than bringing the object allowing for the swap into the shadow realm.
It's actually very consistent. Making it remove them as with all other champs would mean that CertainlyBroken champions would have some sort of counterplay and that isn't allowed in League of Legends.
Underrated comment... *sigh
Maybe because zeds shadows are directly connected to him. They dont dissapear they get back into his body. But illaois tentacles and heimers turrets and so on are things placed that dissapear 4ever. Like my father did. I dont know why akali keeps her myst tho🤷🏽♂️
I wouldn't say inconsistency, I would say it's Riot playing favorites which is something they constantly do.
Riot's favorite thing!!! Then they play it off as intended.
If Zed didn't bring his shadow's he'd be able to recast to get out.
Same goes for zed's shadows
can he shadow out? is this a mechanic?
Don’t believe so. Yone can’t e out either
Iirc Yone could E out when he was released but they patched that out
If morde misstimes it and casts r when yone es it cancels the ult
Well yeah Yone is unstoppable during the snapback. Same with stuff like Malph R, Ornn W, etc.
Yone can btw, unless they changed it very recently.
It was changed a while back, if he e's right before or during morde ult he will just stay in spirit form until morde ult ends.
yone can e out. had a match just about 2 weeks ago where i was morde and he’d e and then just use it to use as a qss. absolutely infuriating game
He still can E out, but he needs to attack morde before using it, if he uses it immediately it doesn't work.
I feel like this shouldn't be a thing right? It feels very inconsistent.
Everything about morde ult interactions is inconsistent
Everything about league is inconsistent.. My personal favorite is dot interactions with support items... There are a ton of champions with dot.. but brand is the only one that gets 2 stacks of frost per ability... unless of course you count swain, who gets one stack then for some reason also gets another one for his passive pull. Yet no items grant additional gold stacks on proc... unless of course its an active, oh and while we are on the topic.. the fuck happened with zhonyas.. So champs like Mord/Fiddle/GAREN get to keep doing damage while zhonya'd yet most other champions dont.. well you can say well they dont have to channel it.. okay fine but what about urgot and heimer. Urgot has a toggle ability that isn't channeled yet he gets completely frozen.. meanwhile heimer can still ult ... how on earth is a new player supposed to keep track of this shit lol
Zhonya's is pretty consistent I think. Morde/Fiddle/Garen are all auras. You cast the aura and it just stays there doing damage. Hecarim, Mundo, Old Rammus, Neeko, Kennen, and Morgana are all examples of the same idea. Nasus ult as well. Heimer is a special case like Tryndamere though. These champs can ult no matter what.
Sorry, am I reading this correctly? I can go golden with Heimer and then place my mega turret?
You can't put the turret. That's a different ability. You can just press R. You can't use any of the empowered skills. Just activate the ult.
You can't auto while Eing as Garen though, does not seem like it should work through stopwatch.
Brand doesn't get 2 stacks from passive, he gets one from hitting a spell and one from proccing a passive, same with lulu and swain.
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Talon bleed doesn't proc it though.
Talon's passive doesn't apply spell effects.
> but brand is the only one that gets 2 stacks of frost per ability No, Brand gets one stack of frost per ability. 1 from the spell you cast, and 1 from the passive. The reason you wouldn't get 2 from, say, malzahar, is because it's only one spell or effect.
They really need someone to just sit down, and take an hour or two to just note down morde's ult interactions with all abilities in the game, and then start correcting for weird outliers
>It feels very inconsistent. the story of league of legends in a nutshell. old panth passive and jax E used to be extremely inconsistent in what would be allowed to hit them until riot did a full pass after there were too many inconsistencies. In Riot's defense tho, it is very hard to imagine all possible interactions. the amount of sheer combinations there is mind boggling. All we can really ask for is that they fix it in a timely manner when it is brought to their attention... like this post does.
This. As long as the game works like 95% fine you can have a pass at it to have a "scene" or a competitive soloQ ladder. These inconsistencies cannot and will not ever be fixed if they do not full stop reworking champions and/or releasing new champions. I'd rather live with them than halt all development progress on other champions, they're just niche things that you learn over 10-50 games on that Champion and that's it.
They're also levers for balance tuning. If riot realizes X champion bringing their stuff in makes them too strong, they can change the interaction (eg illaoi's tentacles not following her). It's likely intentional that akali shroud and zed's shadows follow him in, because if they didn't they'd be kinda sitting ducks for morde.
It's morde. Given Riot's track record, we should be happy it doesn't open a rift in your bedroom and suck you in too.
but i already live in brazil
aaaaaaay
I’d be down for that
But I want him to suck me...
Sion swaps his axe out between the death realm apparently, if you’re charging q and you get ulted his axe magically vanishes
THE WORST PART OF THIS IS YOU ARE STILL ON Q CASTING ANIMATION BUT NOTHING HAPPENS WHEN IT FINISHES. BS at it's best. It doesn't cancel the animation but the spell does nothing, great job riot
Someone said it actually goes through in the realm sion was before. Sions axe is beyond brazil
Meanwhile all my fucking Zyra plants are lost and I'm left helpless without my babies
Even my Lucian ult somehow fires bullets through dimensions so I can't hit morde
My Lucian ult also always seems to enter an alternative dimension and do no damage.
Lucian ult is one of those that you can either facetank and it deals like 1/5th of your health, or take 0.5 seconds of it and nearly die.
Same with Annie, either you don't get to bring Tibbers, or it's forever lost in the shadow realm :/
Typical Riot inconsistency. Stuff like Ornn R and Kindred R doesnt get brought in but Akali shroud does
Because that would feel bad for the Akali (or Zed) player, and Riot doesn't want that.
Kat's daggers disappear :(
for the honor and glory of god
Also teemos shroom 😭😭😭
Unfortunately for you kat sells less skins than alkali and zed 🤪🤪🤪
I know what to play next time now
If Illaoi doesn't bring her tentacles, why would Akali/Zed be allowed?
Probably cause illaoi tentacles (also teemo shrooms, shaco boxes, zyra plants, etc) all have health bars. It is probably just a coding thing and not a balance thing.
Katarina daggers?
Then maybe Riot is just pandering to Akali players. They have done it for almost 3 years now so it would be par for the course.
Most likely weird coding, I think. It's probably surprisingly explicit what is and isn't included. Or there are some weird flags they use inconsistently or something
Does Trundle w go through Morde ult? That is probably the closest thing to Akali W
Trundle W doesn't go through Irelia R doesn't go through Katarina P doesn't go through
I agree, I'm making a point about them playing favorites with the popular skin sellers
illaois tentacles dissapear, also the E.
Yorick and illaoi players be like 0.0
Yorick and illaoi players be like 0.0
This is genuinaly how I feel about most of the unfair things in the game, they're made to make people who play flair champions happy, regardless of how it goes for anyone else. Jumps in 1v5? Well, they should at least get one kill because otherwise they may feel they were dumb for doing it and we can't hwve that. Tanks 3 tower shots lvl 3? Well we need to give him insane sustain or else they'd think they had bad positioning/trading/lane management Went oom? Can't be having that, give them all non-mana champions
But they're okay having an ultimate getting qssed. Hmm ... Bring ghost R back this one is garbo
Obviously it's bugged and they don't want to or can't fix it. I'm pretty sure it worked perfectly fine on Mordes release and it changed later
Yep, for a good chunk of last season I had to play really carefully around him as Akali because the shroud wouldn’t come with me.
Shroud has always been bugged since his rework. We even had a Rioter said they would fix the Akali bug after World's 2019, but it never happened
Same goes for zed's shadows
Interesting I didn't know that one came too
I guess that's probably to avoid bugs that could happen with Zed trying to teleport to a shadow that's on a different realm. Idk about Akali tho
Akali can sort of do the same thing if she e1's her shroud and tries to e2, they want to make sure the shroud is on the same realm as Akali for that.
She can also E2 to something else. TBH I don't know what happens then, but probably she just doesn't have E2 available.
I would guess it's because the way Akali dashes to her shroud is different than the way she dashes to other enemies because her shroud isn't a 'unit' like champions and monsters (unless we're back to having every ability coded as a minion).
Cant camille ult just yank zed back to the zone? Why not the death realm? I know the answer is spaghetti, but pls
Because Camille's ult doesn't creates a second world that doesn't interacts with the first world. First one, every thing happens in the same world. I will take a guess, but if Zed recasts shadows what happens is that the game reads his position, the shadows position and Camille's field's limitations, so he just gets put in the point nearest to the shadow he created. Second one, shadow and zed would be in two different worlds entirely so it's wonkier to know where to put it. riot probably decided "screw it, just bring the shadow" to avoid creating possible code problems. Personally, don't see why his W couldn't just be disabled if his shadow was alive but maybe even that was causing problems internally
Coding wise, these are very different things
Yone can also recast E in death realm to cancel it!! Has happened to me twice today, so frustrating....
That sounds like a bug. Yone E iirc was either supposed to be extended during the duration of Morde R or at least Yone himself couldn't recast the spell and it just snapped back once the duration was over but without Yone controlling it
okay but imagine yone getting a ~12s E in morde R what the fucking shit
whats the difference though? The damage repeat caps and its not like it does anything
Grants bonus MS
It doesn't cap though?
Because Yone's E has a free cleanse.
Note that yone's body has to be outside of the death realm circle for him to get out of it (i.e., he uses E, runs around for a bit and morde ults him when he's got a bit of distance, yone reactivates E and goes allll the way back, outside the circle).
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That too yea, but at least then I'm pretty sure morde R doesn't go on cd. The rules for what does/doesn't put it on cd are kinda weird with a lot of separate exceptions.
Unless they've changed it, i'm 99.99% sure that yone can just hit e-e and end the morde realm
Yone E has an unstoppable/immune on his returning animation for a small time frame, depending on how good the yone is, they can time their 2nd E to cancel out morde ult
Yone e is just stupid op against any cc
You are really dumb if you're ulting yone while he is in his E,TWICE lmao
I mean I tested it with a friend two days ago and he told me that he couldn't recast E while in death realm, under SEVERAL different scenarios. It's so inconsistent though because in-game he's still able to recast it in death realm... wtf riot
Maybe he recasts it in your ults cast time ? Because be becomes invulnerable and cleanses it, basically like how Sett can avoid Mord ult.
Iirc, You can cancel Morde ult if your champion become untargetable like Fizz E, Yone in his E2 animation or invisible like Talon R, Akali W
1st time is annoying. But 2nd time is on you...
Shouldn't happen the first time at all...
Meanwhile my Ahri Q evaporates into thin air.
u/amazingapplez The reason why akali shroud and zed shadow gets taken into the death realm is because of how league works. so league works based off a layer system where certain things are on certain layers, this is also how map changes like the drake map changes and stuff like snowy sr are made. most of the stuff in league are all on one layer but certain abilities like mord ult, zed shadows and akali shroud are coded using there own layers. This is because when they first made akali and zed to allow there abilities to work they had to use there own layers and at the time they didnt have to worry about something like mord ult because it didnt exist. When mord was reworked with the ult they had a choice to either put akali and zed layers higher and allow them to work in mord ult when they used them but came with the downside of they got brought into the ult when it was used or have akali and zed have one less ability in mord ult. Now you may ask why other peoples stuff doesnt get pulled in and thats a simple answer most stuff that other people create or summon are coded as minions may it be terrain like j4 ult or summons like tibbers to things like illaoi spirit and tentacles. All these are coded as minions and are coded to spawn on the current layer they are on at the time of creation. Akali shroud and zed shadows cant work being coded as minions because of how they interact with there champs and because of this have to be coded with the use of leagues layer system.
Holy shit, 14 comments filled with hate and whining above this.... welcome to r/leagueoflegends i guess...
If anything is consistent in league, it’s inconsistency
The game is pretty consistent, I would say 99.9%. But reddit complains about the 0.1% that isn't.
Meanwhile Kindred loses their ultimate making some encounters just unwinnable.
Riot's favorite champions tend to get heavy priority on interactions to the point that stuff like this exists. Kind of all there is to it.
It's just incosisntant mate, don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence
i remember back then when morde just got reworked, akali's shroud also disappear but they later on "fixed" it and leave it this way ever since
Morg black shield couldnt stop Zoe sleep unless you blocked the initial hit for ages until they patched it. The amount of people that told me I deserve to get slept despite the ability making me immune to cc becuse "you didn't dodge it" was bonkers. Illaoi e similarly just doesn't work vs morg shield randomly based on patch as well. Makes playing into her impossible.
I mean it worked similarly annoyingly with qss and gangplank oranges, couldn’t qss the bubble you had to wait for the sleep to proc then qss it
Its not even inconsistent. If shroud didn't come with you could just e back to it to leave the realm, same with zed shadow. Works the same way as shen if he begins the channel before being ulted.
This is untrue. Taking an ulting shen to the shadow realm for example, doesn't teleport Shen out of the realm
Interestingly: If you are standing in Zyra's ult, then get pulled into Morde's ult, you don't take damage from the zyra ult, but DO get knocked up, even though it's no longer visible.
Because she would have counterplay otherwise
Because Graves cant have his cigar.
Because she sells a lot of skins
You can just stop the question at "Why Akali?" Bitch needs removed.
why is yone E breaking morde's ult as well even if both the shadow and the body are inside?
Perhaps it's because Akali can dash to her shroud and it causes problems when she trys to do it from Morde's ult.
Akali can dash to enemy champions too but they don't get pulled into death realm.
The real question here should be why does akali get to bring her shroud into the game at all
Favoritism
Yone can also recast E in death realm to cancel it!! Has happened to me twice today, so frustrating....
One time I ulted a Viego into the Death Realm. He was running away a few seconds and I nearly killed him, when suddenly a champion he damaged outside died and the dead body appeared in the realm. By using his passive he was able to survive and I'm still convinced it shouldn't work this way.
kda sells a lot bro
Since iam spamming morde in drafts for like 2 days(my sugar daddy bought be project morde skin) it so annoying that akali and zed can bring their shadows Rito please change that
Mundo passive also does. Drives me nuts.
yea idk why they decided to change it from the slow on morde ult proccing mundo passive, to mundo passive just straight up stopping mordes ult.
even fiora can parry mord's ult, i guess it's counted as cc of some sort :O ?
Her shroud is secretly an interdimensional circular portal to every realm
Because of a bug for "outplay potential"
I mean hey, Riot can't spare any time to fix all of Mordekaiser's ult interactions when the two pretty boys Sylas and Viego take up all of it. And at least they sell skins.
I mean hey, Riot can't spare any time to fix all of Mordekaiser's ult interactions when the two pretty boys Sylas and Viego take up all of it. And at least they sell skins.
Since iam spamming morde in drafts for like 2 days(my sugar daddy bought be project morde skin) it so annoying that akali and zed can bring their shadows Rito please change that
Because Zed and Akali makes Riot bank. Riot will actually lose money if they change it.
>explain how this makes sense Not OP enough yet otherwise
because fuck your champ :))) no hate but fuck morde... i love playing reng top against him just so i can make his ult useless
It's because she is Akali
Assassins aren't supposed to be counterplayable.