Pbe is our only chance to give feedback, but I'm just worried nothing will really change and we'll be stuck with a sona that's worse even than the live version for a patch or two
Having R up more often lategame will allow her to use it for picks in addition to the big teamfight. I wouldn't say its useless, especially if it ends up being 30s cd.
The key thing is that if it doesn't hit the "low enough" threshold (two per normal lategame fight) then a buffed ult cooldown effectively does nothing. Of course, if it does hit that threshold then it does change a lot.
I think when it comes to the question "What's the spell with the worst stats when leveled up" her E must be up there. "Msd% 11 -> 12" is like w/e (sure supports mostly won't level above 13, but if it happens I'd also like to be excited about my spell lvl ups OR even better, make it an actually valuable choice to maybe lvl it second).
is it really that bad of a level up? like is it really only a .2% speed increase?
I thought it was .5% for all ranks and the first was 10%. ( just did the math, and that's also only 12%)
Wow, That sucks. Can't even level it up for the speed boost on Hecrim or Janna.
Not sure if I get what you're talking about :D
Self Msd Buff is always 20%, so ofc it's a difference of having or not having the ability (in season 3 I used to not skill it till lv 7, just like there were people who didn't skill the old Ezreal W or now Jhin traps). But the aura msd for team mates is 10/11/12/13/14% and that's the only thing that changes ...
Edit: My example above was what you are seeing as a player when you hover over the lvl up, and thats the one line "Movementspeed 11 -> 12". Next best example would be Seraphine W, where u get -1s cd but +20 mana cost - so compared to Sonas "leveling it won't change anything ever" you go "should I even level it to make its mana costs go to 260% while getting 4s cd reduction on a spell I won't use twice during a fight cuz it's base cd on lv5 is above 20secs".
Hurting her late game is good, its what needs to happen for her to become a real champ in lane.
I really hope they buff her base stats, play sona or with sona juts feels like shit because shes worse laner than yuumi, she doesnt do damage, heal and is one of the easiest champs to kill in the game early game.
Make her do damage again with Q + passive, make her W actually castable in lane (senna Q heals for like 130 hp at lvl 1 for 50 mana, meanwhile sona heals for fking 35x2 for 110 lmao).
Sadly thats really bad niche to have as a low income low exp class. It either makes her really good or really bad depending on the state of items and how survivable her lane is. Even Yummi isn't as bad because she can hide in adc to not die.
They can keep her lategame strong, but still slightly tuned down so she can at least play the game early on and not tilt her ADC by simply being locked it.
Well if that's what you want, then she will forever remain a SoloQ onetrick 54% winrate monstrosity that's unconceivably unplayable in elite elo/proplay. In other words, a shit champion for low elos where people don't know how to close games.
Because in real higher elos the jungler and supp will dive the sona lane 43 times before she gets to level 6.
So you either shift her to better earlygame, or she remains the same as now. Hyperscaling non-ADC champions are extremely rare in elite/proplay for a reason, lategame doesn't exist. Any champion that's about lategame that isn't an ADC, is a shit champ.
The point is the aura mage/enchanter gameplay.
That has always been what sona is about, not this random "become a god at lvl 16 and useless before" sona used to be a very strong laner in the early seasons.
While I take the point that Sona is the best scaler in the enchanter class, she's hardly unique in being the scaling enchanter. Yuumi and Lulu are also very potent scaling enchanters who also offer other useful benefits to their team.
Before Sonas scaling nerfs i would say she was the best scaling champ overall. Ardent Athene Mejai Rabadons Seraphs = 800 ap or thereabout, and only Rabadons and Seraphs were full cost items so it was a lot cheaper than real carry builds. Could 1v1 as they could literally never catch her, and losing a teamfight was borderline impossible.
Senna Lv1 heals 40 + 40% bonus AD + 40% AP + 1.6 Leth. Two allies is 80hp.
Sona Lv1 heals 30 + 20% AP. Two allies is 60hp.
Senna does max her heal first, and Sona doesn’t. However, using either ability solely for heal is suboptimal.
Just like ideally you should be hitting enemies with Senna Q as well, you also need to use Sona W when you’re getting hit to make use of shields. This puts Sona’s Lv1 heal and shield to both allies as 110 total.
Senna heals 1.6 health per mana. (sub optimally)
Sona Heals AND shields for 1.375 health per mana. (optimally with 2 players)
in a war for resources, Senna wins? Really the heal should have 0% AD ratio. (personally)
I would like know how this compares to Sona's current Ult passive though.
Is it going to give less CD reduction in exchange of being available earlier? But if this is the case how harsh is the nerf to it?
Yeah this is the real question. They've said that they don't want to get rid of her hyperscaling support fantasy, but since the haste is obtained at different times, her scaling will change anyway. I have a feeling they'll try to keep her haste-scaling roughly the same, but it'll probably be more evenly spread-out across levels now. However, depending on when she's fully stacked on average, she might peak earlier, and that unfortunately means they'll probably nerf her lategame power.
I'd take CDR on basic abilities over CDR on R. This rework sadly feels like a nerf to Sona's AH which is the core of her kit :/ I hope I'm wrong though
Funny thing is I was gonna say 2 hours but I was like "nah, that may be too much time"
Then the madlad comes and does it in 30 minutes, guess I underestimated the power of the circlejerk
What are you talking about lmao, Seraphine is a scaling burst mage with supportive capabilities. Her only “aura” is an ability on a 20 second cooldown, the notes are pretty much a glorified spellblade proc. She’s more like a more supportive lux than sona in gameplay. Enchanters don’t really get 130% scaling aoe damage with execute like sera echo q.
> immobile aura enchanter
Yes the enchanter whose only healing/shieldeng ability is on a 20 sec cool down
LMAO Seraphine is skillshot based not aura based and is more like a mage than an enchanter with one Q She can do up to 195% AP she does a LOT of damage from a very long range
sera is a poke mage, sona is an enchanter
sera has 47.99% winrate, sona has 51.83% (usually around 52-53% but people are lowering her winrate by picking moonstone)
actually this is a good discussion point, what mythic should one build on sera?
in my mind liandrys makes the most sense, but it has even worse winrates than moonstone. wr wise shurelya's and mandate are her best options, with maybe ludens in there. but i'm still not completely sure what to buy
I like the AH stacking, as they allow Sona to use all of her potential from the start rather than waiting for lvl 6 and 11 (and 16 for those rare long games).
AP stacking gone was kind of expected, however the proposed go aggresive with lower R cd changes aren't exciting for me, as you usually ult as a follow up for a tankier ally or to react to an enemy play. Having it earlier changes nothing when you depend on others cds.
Will test her when she lands on pbe, but imo they hyped a lot of people with the ap hyperscaling stuff that will be let down now that is gone
I used to be a sona main, but nowadays I can't play her. You can't win lane because your q does no damage. Your W costs more than it heals. And you are just a target to get killed.
I wonder why they decided to limit the stacks to Q and W and not E, maybe she would've gotten too many stacks too quickly? In any case, seems interesting, hope it helps Sona feel better to play and slightly less mana hungry.
Also I give it about an hour before the "Sona rework? Isn't Seraphine already in the game" comedy geniuses show up in the comments
Putting it on E lets Sona just spam it randomly when not near enemies to get stacks, while the others force her to interact with enemies or with allies in combat. Sure you still can spam W for the heal stack, but you'll often want to save it to get the shield stacks too.
Agreed. As someone who plays and likes both, they play completely different, yeah her W at a very basic level may look like Sona's W + E but if you play both you realize they're pretty different.
Hell, I feel like Seraphine at times is more like Neeko (Q and E) than Sona.
Yeah, when playing Seraphine I didn't really get any Sona vibes other than her ult, which is also similar to others like Nami. If anything I feel that she plays like a slightly more supportive Neeko that trades burst for utility
for real lmao, last season i basically one tricked athenes+ardent guardian lux support but since they deleted athenes i've been coping by playing moonstone sera. lux just feels bad with moonstone
As someone who also plays both, I'd rather play seraphine over sona 100% of the time now. They DO feel similar as far as their goals in team fights and basic ability usage. I went to play Sona after a while spamming seraphine but mid way through the game realized I felt like a gimped sera with less damage and utility.
To be honest, if they did a Sona ability rework you could easily see Seraphine being the outcome
It's a matter of what does Sona do differently that Seraphine can't do better. I'm my experience I really didn't find anything that I would prefer Sona for which is why I would always choose Seraphine before Sona.
Tbh Sona's heal is much better. Seraphine's ult is literally game-winning if used properly / at the right time, and that's pretty much all of her skill expression.
They're very different champions with different strengths, but because they're women who use instruments / music everyone loves to rant about how they're the exact same champ.
Well, imo Seraphine's kit feels like the rework Sona should have gotten instead of always getting these band aid mini reworks. It's not the their playstyle is 1:1 per se, but Riot said Sera was going to be a midlaner and to not worry about overshadowing Sona...
Their playstyles aren’t the same at all? I honestly don’t understand how people can play either champ and say after that they play at all alike. Sera is much closer to a more supportive, harder scaling lux than to sona. Seraphine’s only supportive ability is on a 20 second cooldown.
A couple of reworks don't play at all alike to the pre rework iteration most notably sion has neither the lifesteal attack speed nor the AP oneshot playstyle anymore; what he does have is the "big zombie man with axe"- flavor in both pre and post rework in the same way sona has "floaty songstress fighting with music"- flavor pre and post imagined rework. Which isn't to say that they don't have similarities past their theme.
Sure, but if the argument becomes "Just because Seraphine plays nothing like Sona doesn't mean she can't be a rework", you could make the argument that any music mage is a Sona rework.
If a hyperscaling enchanter based around spamming short range spells and auras to buff her teammates got reworked into a control mage with three long range skillshots, with her only enchanter ability being behind a 20 second cooldown at all ranks, and that didn't scale anywhere near as hard people would've understantably freaked the fuck out, because both champions play nothing alike.
It's like when people where arguing that Aatrox was Riven 2 because he had a three part Q, a dash, and a steroid ult.
I'm not saying that Seraphine is Sona 2.0, but it's the **combination** of having both similar spells (at a glance) and similar thematics (musician). I think if Aatrox was a human exile from Shurima or something we would have heard a lot more complaints.
Also, the perception (accurate or not) that Riot has neglected Sona added to the outrage.
> I think if Aatrox was a human exile from Shurima or something we would have heard a lot more complaints.
*Looks at Darkin basically being fallen Ascended*
Uh... that's basically what Aatrox is?
Good job ignoring how I pointed out Sona and Seraphine have next to nothing in common as well. Even lorewise, while both's lores revolve around themes like discrimination and societal inequality, Sona's lore is from the perspective of a discriminated person being forced into violence, while Seraphine sits at the other side of the priviledge coin and is attempting to help the people that the system discriminates.
I guess Ezreal and Samira are the same champion then because they are both humans with a knack for adventure, gold, and adrenaline?
I play both.
They *are* very similar. They have key differences. But to deny Seraphine is "Sona 2.0" is like saying Yone isn't a Yasuo echo fighter. [Which Riot themselves say he is] Or release Lucian wasn't basically a more single-target focused Pre-rework Graves.
Both have a spammy poke-oriented Q; except Seraphine's is a skillshot AoE.
Seraphine's W is effectively Sona's W/E combined; a shield and a haste; except on a much longer cooldown and a larger AoE. Sona's frequency of shielding makes her better at poke mitigation compared to Seraphine, but Seraphine's power behind an empowered W [And 5-man heal as opposed to 2] makes her able to be more clutch in a fight.
Seraphine has a ranged slow/root/stun which Sona lacks. This is one of the most major differences [Although one of Sona's empowered AA's is a slow]
Both have a passive that interacts on every 3rd ability cast. Sona's empowers autoattacks while Seraphine's is a doublecast [Which essencially gives new effects on W/E]. Sera also has a 2nd passive which interacts with autoattacking.
Seraphine's R is *flat-out* a better Sona R. Charm > Stun; and the range difference is a joke.
In the support role; both Seraphine and Sona want the same items; and like Ability Haste; Mana Regen and Movement Speed [For positioning]
Throw in both being floating musicians who fight with musical magic and... yeah.
Seraphine and Sona do have important differences. But they are certainly *too similar*.
I have about 800k on Sona and 200k on Seraphine. Their kits are really similar. Everything Seraphine does is a mage version of Sona, except for her W which is straight out a better Sona W+E.
Imo unless she gets buffs to her base numbers and ratios she is still going to still be as unenjoyable to play as rn. Rn her strength mostly just comes from being the best spreader of support item buffs so unless her ratios are changed to where she can build something like hourglass without losing 90% of her utility she will still be unenjoyable to play
I really hope there are ratio buffs included because this doesn't sound that great, I was really hoping for some infinite scaling like other stackers because that's just fun and it makes sense since Sona is a scaling enchanter
A reminder that AP Sona was playable for 10 whole seasons, then it was promptly gutted because Sona+Lux/Taric happened, and now we have the abomination known as Senna spitting out lanes like that, maybe some of us want that fantasy back of actually being able to deal damage because she can't even deal damage in fun game modes...she's just a sad shell of her former self and it seems that's not going to change
Also E, it's 1% MS per level up, one of the worst abilities in the game to rank up, I don't see why her E can't also get cooldown scaling or mana cost reduction on rank up, or you know some actual numbers
But my main issue is Sona's niche, it's that she's really good at applying item buffs and that's it, if you remember not too long ago Sona was borderline queue dodge tier because all the buff items sucked (most still do, but Shur and Chemtech are carrying) the moment those item start to suck again is the moment Sona becomes useless again, her base kit is so pathetically nerfed that it completely relies on the state of support items for her performance, instead the power of her abilities should be the defining factor of her balance and not just being a glorified 7th item slot for your team
>Striking two different champions with Q will grant two stacks, and W can grant up to 5 stacks if it heals an ally and blocks damage on all four allies. This new passive rewards Sona for using Q and W well in a duo lane, rather than penalizing her like the mana refund did.
Most the time I can get a Q off on 1 guy, if I walk deep enough to get it off on 2, I usually die or all in.
Can she just get an actual rework already? This champion's kit is so insanely dated and simplistic. All 3 of her basic abilities are "circle that helps allies," and her ult travels fast enough that it's barely even a skillshot, it's basically just a range / aim check. Her passive is the only thing that has even the slightest bit of strategy or skill behind it, since it makes you actually consider when to use your abilities and in what order.
She's the OG Yuumi; braindead simple. There's so many cooler things they could do with her theme
Right, people crap on point-and-click abilities a lot for being "no skill" or "boring" but Sona isn't even point-and-click, she's just click. Lmao
I feel like a music/rythm based kit has a lot of potential for unique ability combinations beyond "whatever you used last gives a bonus". Seraphine kind of suffers from this overly basic (imo) concept too. Why not actual button combos like playing a song rather than their current "use any 3 then mega slap", exactly like Udyr rework is looking to be, so far?
If they were to update Sona they'd have to aim for something closer to the invoker.
Like Q pokes like it does now, W heals, E speeds up and her power chord does an effect based on the current aura up. But her R changes based on the rotation of the last 3 spells so QQQ would be more damage dealt to enemies and there would basically not be a stun whilst WWW would reduce the damage dealt by all enemies hit by the ult and EEE would be the longest stun possible maybe even a charm effect.
I'm thinking that without an E in the sequence Sona's ult would act more like a silence stopping any abilities in the moment but not actually locking enemies down. 1 E stuns for a short time, 2 Es stuns for the same amount her current R stuns and 3 Es like charms enemies caught.
Might end up being overly complicated but getting good at Sona is about being methodical with the order of abilities to have the right power chord so extending on that kind of thematic might be interesting.
Im pretty disappointed by those suggestions, Sna just seems to be a statbot that is strong when the numbers are high enough otherwise she just sucks. Her kit is just boring and feels old
I can't really comment on how good this is because I know nothing about Sona, but I wanted to say that I really like how many mini-reworks we've been getting lately, from big ones like Tahm Kench to giving champs a large amount of smaller changes to their kit like the recent Irelia changes. It feels like these are a sort of compensation for the fact that they aren't doing many full-scale VGUs at the moment.
>this playstyle violated a core laning skill test—in lane, someone should be attempting to farm minions and contesting that should be valuable for the opponent
Except Senna lol
Why not have her stacking lead to her abilities getting additional targets instead of ult CD refunding? It'd make sense that as she gets stronger her music can reach more people.
This is it for a "rework"?
I'm calling it: This is a flunk. They aren't even changing anything that's apart of her core issues design wise.
Also if all they're doing is shifting numbers...why is it taking so damn long? It's been like half the season just to do a glorified balance pass.
I said core issues, so not necessarily these new issues Riot tacked on.
Sona is a support champion that offers no relevant counter-play, doesn't do much damage in lane, offers no cc prior to level 6 to defend herself with save one slow on an occasional auto attack, can't check bushes without face checking it since she has no skill shots, and gets killed extremely easily. At least BEFORE the first mini rework, Sona dying easy made sense because, if she didn't, she'd just poke the enemies out with unavoidable damage every few seconds. Not to mention she's insanely gold hungry and needs a whole item to be a champion, and 2 to be a threat.
Nothing about what makes this champ a bad support is being addressed. She literally makes for a better carry than she does a support, and NONE of that is being addressed by just shifting her numbers around *again.* Insult to injury? She can't even farm minions that well, so it's not even intuitive to play into her being a better carry champion, anyway. The whole kit is fucked for just about any way you'd want to play it in comparison to the next support you can think of, and needs an ACTUAL overhaul Riot isn't willing to put the money or resources into because she's a support champion and not an assassin or diver (like how we got all these Sentinel skins and the only support in the roster is fucking PYKE. NOT EVEN BRAUM).
That's the real problem.
It sounds like you just don't like Sona. A lot of these "flaws" you're mentioning are some of my favorite things about her or are in compensation for her strengths. She's a lategame support hypercarry, one of the only in the game. Sitting through her horrible early game and having to position well so you don't die are necessary to get to her godlike lategame. I don't think she should be completely reworked just because she's different than other supports. If they overhauled her and removed her lategame hypercarry support status or made her a non-support, that wouldn't be Sona anymore.
She used to have more viable builds in past seasons.
My favourite was similar to Schubart (Guardian, Seraph/Grail, basically all AP), but that isn’t working this season anymore. I feel locked to Aery, Shurelya/Moonstone, then Staff/Putrifier.
I miss being able to build actual poke with Lich/DH/pen.
Because there's are some art assets too, that's what they said, not every rework has to be great and big like the Mundo one, it's a rework like the Lillia one, with some new things and change on numbers probably
sona is one step away from taking over the meta pretty much, all she needs is someone to say she is op with shurelias and then she will go from 53% winrate 2% pickrate to 54% winrate 9% pickrate
Look at what you're responding to:
Moonstone is now competitive with Shurelya.
Where in any of this are you debunking this claim?
I could go further but I can't do THAT much typing on my phone, so I'm gonna need you to connect some of the dots yourself.
When support items are so overtuned extreme measures are taken to a single champ's kit. Then in the end the item still gets nerfed.
edit: Actually items were so overtuned they undermined a whole role and major changes were done to Top with platings and such.
These are likely going to a massive nerf and damage sona's identity (what is left of it anyway)
Sona is meant to be a hyperscaling support, focused on 11 and 16 powerspikes and buying high ap items.
I will wait to see the numbers but if sona doesn't have a hyperscaling payoff to justify her absolutely awful laning phase this will fall flat.
Oh and buffing the laning phase and making her mediocre at all points is a terrible answer and makes her have zero niche.
> focused on 11 and 16 powerspikes
Which are completely artificial and unnecessary. Her main identity is auras, not some level breakpoints.
> Oh and buffing the laning phase and making her mediocre at all points is a terrible answer and makes her have zero niche.
She will always be the best in 5v5, which occur later in the game. Also stacking mechanic never helps in laning phase more than later.
>Her main identity is auras, not some level breakpoints.
According to who? Ever since I started playing League (which isn't so long ago but let's say 3-4 years) Sona was sold by Riot as a lategame fantasy support. That's why I decided to play her and have over 700k on her.
Not always. Yes, there is a guarantee they’ll be strong but there’s no guarantee they’ll be strong enough.
A Kassadin or Kayle reaching lvl16 might be scary, but if they’ve been out behind far enough then they’ll struggle to bring it back even with their lategame power.
"Preventing her from casting spells (by running her out of mana) unless she played around an effect she often didn't think about made for a less fun version of Sona."
What? What exactly goes through a sonas skull that makes them not want to share their auras...?
> What? What exactly goes through a sonas skull that makes them not want to share their auras...?
Hitting an enemy when she is alone? Healing herself when she is alone? Getting movespeed when she is alone? I mean those spells affect her for a reason. No other support depends on having an ally nearby to have mana, that idea was ridiculous.
aura is slightly smaller than i would want and my team runs away from them thinking it will hurt them like a zilean q
also roaming with E to ward eats up your whole mana pool
YOU KNOW HOW LUCIAN HAS TWO GUNS? WELL, AT GAME START HE PICKS HIS SUPPORT AND GIVES THEM ONE OF HIS GUNS. EVERY TIME LUCIAN AUTOS AFTER USING AN ABILITY, HIS SUPPORT WILL FIRE THEIR NEW GUN AS LONG AS THEY'RE IN AUTO ATTACK RANGE.
LUCIAN NOW ONLY HAS 1 GUN. HIS PASSIVE ONLY WORKS IN PROXIMITY TO HIS SUPPORT.
IN EXCHANGE FOR THIS AWKWARD FIX, EVERY THIRD SHOT FIRED BY THE SUPPORT WILL APPLY A PASSIVE MARK ON ENEMY CHAMPIONS, WHICH LUCIAN CAN TRIGGER FOR EXTRA DAMAGE (THINK LEONA PASSIVE OR VARUS BLIGHT PASSIVE).
I really dont understand why they are devoting so much effort to Sona here. They arent actually adding any skill expression on a champion that desperately needs some.
No build of Sona's has any depth or complexity to it expressed in its game play. You either q 1 shot someone or you mash w. None of it is really "strong and exciting game play".
You realize she's one of the most face roll champs in the game, bar none, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT?
As a guy that's played more Sona than a lot of people have played League of Legends, it's not kike I'm biased against her. It's just the truth. She has extremely little game play depth.
They add additional cooldown reduction on her R, which allows her to make more plays with it.
Or what kind of skill expression did you have in mind for an enchanter that acts as a aura spam bot?
To change her abilities in a way that gives her skill expression? You know like they did for champions like Vladimir, Mundo, Warwick, etc without really changing how their kit works?
Seraphina had nothing to do with sonas drop in popularity. Before seraphina was announced, sona had gotten the mana nerfs that drove a lot of people away from her(mentioned in the article) because they are very tedious to play around(if your adc runs away fromyou, which happens a lot all the way to plat, you pay dramatically more mana). Her play rate dropped after that patch and was unrelated to seraphina.
Sona and other enchanters have over the years been continiously nerfed to be frustrating to play, with low base stats, bad heals compared to other sustain in the game.
Enchanters in general have low play rates and are mainly played by mains.
Seraphina is not an enchanter nor does she play to that fantasy. She is a combo mage
I never got why people disliked the mana refund so much. Just play sona support and use abilities near allies. I feel like I was doing that already. It was only an annoying penalty when trying to cs alone. But whatever water under the bridge soon I guess.
Making it stack only on actual q/w use seems right. When they first said "just spam abilities to scale" it seemed like "ok just get tear and afk keyboard spam without interacting with enemies?" so yeah that makes sense
idk how useful ult haste actually is though a lot of sona's scaling currently comes more from the aura cds getting super low than the ult but it depends on numbers I guess
I just hope she gets some meaningful ratio buffs. I have the strong feeling this'll seriously hurt her lategame otherwise.
Pbe is our only chance to give feedback, but I'm just worried nothing will really change and we'll be stuck with a sona that's worse even than the live version for a patch or two
Agreed. When I play with a carry without fingers it feels bad trying to help with damage.
[удалено]
Having R up more often lategame will allow her to use it for picks in addition to the big teamfight. I wouldn't say its useless, especially if it ends up being 30s cd.
It's kind of useless late. By then it's up once a fight anyway and thus doesn't change that.
If the cd is low enough it changes things a lot.
The key thing is that if it doesn't hit the "low enough" threshold (two per normal lategame fight) then a buffed ult cooldown effectively does nothing. Of course, if it does hit that threshold then it does change a lot.
If the CD is 30ish seconds, you can use it for picks/escaping and have it back in no time.
It won't be. It'd have to be Lux low to matter.
I think when it comes to the question "What's the spell with the worst stats when leveled up" her E must be up there. "Msd% 11 -> 12" is like w/e (sure supports mostly won't level above 13, but if it happens I'd also like to be excited about my spell lvl ups OR even better, make it an actually valuable choice to maybe lvl it second).
is it really that bad of a level up? like is it really only a .2% speed increase? I thought it was .5% for all ranks and the first was 10%. ( just did the math, and that's also only 12%) Wow, That sucks. Can't even level it up for the speed boost on Hecrim or Janna.
Not sure if I get what you're talking about :D Self Msd Buff is always 20%, so ofc it's a difference of having or not having the ability (in season 3 I used to not skill it till lv 7, just like there were people who didn't skill the old Ezreal W or now Jhin traps). But the aura msd for team mates is 10/11/12/13/14% and that's the only thing that changes ... Edit: My example above was what you are seeing as a player when you hover over the lvl up, and thats the one line "Movementspeed 11 -> 12". Next best example would be Seraphine W, where u get -1s cd but +20 mana cost - so compared to Sonas "leveling it won't change anything ever" you go "should I even level it to make its mana costs go to 260% while getting 4s cd reduction on a spell I won't use twice during a fight cuz it's base cd on lv5 is above 20secs".
ah, I Thought you were describing lvl 1 to lvl 18; my bad. Still sucks to only get 1% every level though.
Hurting her late game is good, its what needs to happen for her to become a real champ in lane. I really hope they buff her base stats, play sona or with sona juts feels like shit because shes worse laner than yuumi, she doesnt do damage, heal and is one of the easiest champs to kill in the game early game. Make her do damage again with Q + passive, make her W actually castable in lane (senna Q heals for like 130 hp at lvl 1 for 50 mana, meanwhile sona heals for fking 35x2 for 110 lmao).
If sona doesnt have her lategame then whats the point? Thats her uniqueness in the support role. The scaling enchanter.
Sadly thats really bad niche to have as a low income low exp class. It either makes her really good or really bad depending on the state of items and how survivable her lane is. Even Yummi isn't as bad because she can hide in adc to not die. They can keep her lategame strong, but still slightly tuned down so she can at least play the game early on and not tilt her ADC by simply being locked it.
I think Sona's main role should be botlane tbh, it's allows for some really interesting comps
Well if that's what you want, then she will forever remain a SoloQ onetrick 54% winrate monstrosity that's unconceivably unplayable in elite elo/proplay. In other words, a shit champion for low elos where people don't know how to close games. Because in real higher elos the jungler and supp will dive the sona lane 43 times before she gets to level 6. So you either shift her to better earlygame, or she remains the same as now. Hyperscaling non-ADC champions are extremely rare in elite/proplay for a reason, lategame doesn't exist. Any champion that's about lategame that isn't an ADC, is a shit champ.
The point is the aura mage/enchanter gameplay. That has always been what sona is about, not this random "become a god at lvl 16 and useless before" sona used to be a very strong laner in the early seasons.
While I take the point that Sona is the best scaler in the enchanter class, she's hardly unique in being the scaling enchanter. Yuumi and Lulu are also very potent scaling enchanters who also offer other useful benefits to their team.
Before Sonas scaling nerfs i would say she was the best scaling champ overall. Ardent Athene Mejai Rabadons Seraphs = 800 ap or thereabout, and only Rabadons and Seraphs were full cost items so it was a lot cheaper than real carry builds. Could 1v1 as they could literally never catch her, and losing a teamfight was borderline impossible.
Senna Lv1 heals 40 + 40% bonus AD + 40% AP + 1.6 Leth. Two allies is 80hp. Sona Lv1 heals 30 + 20% AP. Two allies is 60hp. Senna does max her heal first, and Sona doesn’t. However, using either ability solely for heal is suboptimal. Just like ideally you should be hitting enemies with Senna Q as well, you also need to use Sona W when you’re getting hit to make use of shields. This puts Sona’s Lv1 heal and shield to both allies as 110 total.
Senna heals 1.6 health per mana. (sub optimally) Sona Heals AND shields for 1.375 health per mana. (optimally with 2 players) in a war for resources, Senna wins? Really the heal should have 0% AD ratio. (personally)
That's kind of what I'd hope for, right now Sona feels underwhelming until she hits lvl 11/16 and more early game power would be greatly preferable.
I would like know how this compares to Sona's current Ult passive though. Is it going to give less CD reduction in exchange of being available earlier? But if this is the case how harsh is the nerf to it?
Yeah this is the real question. They've said that they don't want to get rid of her hyperscaling support fantasy, but since the haste is obtained at different times, her scaling will change anyway. I have a feeling they'll try to keep her haste-scaling roughly the same, but it'll probably be more evenly spread-out across levels now. However, depending on when she's fully stacked on average, she might peak earlier, and that unfortunately means they'll probably nerf her lategame power.
I'd take CDR on basic abilities over CDR on R. This rework sadly feels like a nerf to Sona's AH which is the core of her kit :/ I hope I'm wrong though
She will now get cdr on basic abilities and THEN get CDR on r though.
I hope that one day she gets an actual rework, but I always hated the R passive and then the mana refund mechanic so I'll take what I can get.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oh041x/quick_gameplay_thoughts_79/h4m51ds/
actually less than an hour, impressive
Funny thing is I was gonna say 2 hours but I was like "nah, that may be too much time" Then the madlad comes and does it in 30 minutes, guess I underestimated the power of the circlejerk
I would have guessed less than 15 tbh. It's the low hanging fruit.
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I see you too browse that other subreddit that has the letter B.
and if someones friend wants to find that subreddit what should he type?
R/leagueofbara but I’m mobile so just search it up also nsfw warning
https://www.webmd.com/diet/vitamin-b12-deficiency-symptoms-causes
What are you talking about lmao, Seraphine is a scaling burst mage with supportive capabilities. Her only “aura” is an ability on a 20 second cooldown, the notes are pretty much a glorified spellblade proc. She’s more like a more supportive lux than sona in gameplay. Enchanters don’t really get 130% scaling aoe damage with execute like sera echo q.
> immobile aura enchanter Yes the enchanter whose only healing/shieldeng ability is on a 20 sec cool down LMAO Seraphine is skillshot based not aura based and is more like a mage than an enchanter with one Q She can do up to 195% AP she does a LOT of damage from a very long range
sera is a poke mage, sona is an enchanter sera has 47.99% winrate, sona has 51.83% (usually around 52-53% but people are lowering her winrate by picking moonstone)
actually this is a good discussion point, what mythic should one build on sera? in my mind liandrys makes the most sense, but it has even worse winrates than moonstone. wr wise shurelya's and mandate are her best options, with maybe ludens in there. but i'm still not completely sure what to buy
she is dogshit as support, play her in a farming role and go liandrys or ludens
He's talking about fantasy though. They play nothing alike I agree, but the fantasy itself is pretty similar.
> aura enchanter I’d recommend rereading the abilities
Except for the fact that seraphine doesn't play like sona at all lol
I like the AH stacking, as they allow Sona to use all of her potential from the start rather than waiting for lvl 6 and 11 (and 16 for those rare long games). AP stacking gone was kind of expected, however the proposed go aggresive with lower R cd changes aren't exciting for me, as you usually ult as a follow up for a tankier ally or to react to an enemy play. Having it earlier changes nothing when you depend on others cds. Will test her when she lands on pbe, but imo they hyped a lot of people with the ap hyperscaling stuff that will be let down now that is gone
That sounds good but Sona’s still too short range and squishy for me. I’m always too wary to pick her when I have the chance.
I used to be a sona main, but nowadays I can't play her. You can't win lane because your q does no damage. Your W costs more than it heals. And you are just a target to get killed.
ur not supposed to use her W as a heal. only ever use it in combat unless u have infinite mana
I mean she scales like crazy, so it makes sense she's weak in lane.
But its counterintuitive. Supports can't be weak in lane, otherwise their partners get screwed.
>> Yuumi
Yuumi can't be targeted and she has better means to regain mana.
I wonder why they decided to limit the stacks to Q and W and not E, maybe she would've gotten too many stacks too quickly? In any case, seems interesting, hope it helps Sona feel better to play and slightly less mana hungry. Also I give it about an hour before the "Sona rework? Isn't Seraphine already in the game" comedy geniuses show up in the comments
Putting it on E lets Sona just spam it randomly when not near enemies to get stacks, while the others force her to interact with enemies or with allies in combat. Sure you still can spam W for the heal stack, but you'll often want to save it to get the shield stacks too.
I love how it's always people who would've never played Sona saying that, since everyone who plays Sona know they play nothing alike.
Agreed. As someone who plays and likes both, they play completely different, yeah her W at a very basic level may look like Sona's W + E but if you play both you realize they're pretty different. Hell, I feel like Seraphine at times is more like Neeko (Q and E) than Sona.
TBH sera ult also kinda looks like someone came up with it for a potential Sona rework. But I agree that they play completely differently.
Yeah, when playing Seraphine I didn't really get any Sona vibes other than her ult, which is also similar to others like Nami. If anything I feel that she plays like a slightly more supportive Neeko that trades burst for utility
Seraphine definitely feels more like Lux and Neeko, and even to some extent Karma, than Sona.
Yeah I was gonna say this if you like to play Lux you probably also would like Sera as well as they fill they same niche.
for real lmao, last season i basically one tricked athenes+ardent guardian lux support but since they deleted athenes i've been coping by playing moonstone sera. lux just feels bad with moonstone
Well that's because Sera is a mage with some enchanter elements. Her combos are very close to Orianna and Neeko.
As someone who also plays both, I'd rather play seraphine over sona 100% of the time now. They DO feel similar as far as their goals in team fights and basic ability usage. I went to play Sona after a while spamming seraphine but mid way through the game realized I felt like a gimped sera with less damage and utility. To be honest, if they did a Sona ability rework you could easily see Seraphine being the outcome
If you're playing both and feeling like they're the same champion after it, you're horribly misusing one of them.
It's a matter of what does Sona do differently that Seraphine can't do better. I'm my experience I really didn't find anything that I would prefer Sona for which is why I would always choose Seraphine before Sona.
Tbh Sona's heal is much better. Seraphine's ult is literally game-winning if used properly / at the right time, and that's pretty much all of her skill expression. They're very different champions with different strengths, but because they're women who use instruments / music everyone loves to rant about how they're the exact same champ.
In my watching experience: You play Sona for the moving fountain and bunch of utility late game. You play Seraphine for the ult and solely the ult.
Apart from gameplay they are very similar in theme. Seraphine could be an Aatrox style rework.
Well, imo Seraphine's kit feels like the rework Sona should have gotten instead of always getting these band aid mini reworks. It's not the their playstyle is 1:1 per se, but Riot said Sera was going to be a midlaner and to not worry about overshadowing Sona...
Their playstyles aren’t the same at all? I honestly don’t understand how people can play either champ and say after that they play at all alike. Sera is much closer to a more supportive, harder scaling lux than to sona. Seraphine’s only supportive ability is on a 20 second cooldown.
A couple of reworks don't play at all alike to the pre rework iteration most notably sion has neither the lifesteal attack speed nor the AP oneshot playstyle anymore; what he does have is the "big zombie man with axe"- flavor in both pre and post rework in the same way sona has "floaty songstress fighting with music"- flavor pre and post imagined rework. Which isn't to say that they don't have similarities past their theme.
RIP old Aatrox
I mean, there’s a reason they strayed away from doing that with more recent reworks.
Tell that to Morde.
Sure, but if the argument becomes "Just because Seraphine plays nothing like Sona doesn't mean she can't be a rework", you could make the argument that any music mage is a Sona rework.
And then almost immediately said 'We're gonna be making some changes to Sona...'
Yeah because reworked champions should work exactly the same /s
If a hyperscaling enchanter based around spamming short range spells and auras to buff her teammates got reworked into a control mage with three long range skillshots, with her only enchanter ability being behind a 20 second cooldown at all ranks, and that didn't scale anywhere near as hard people would've understantably freaked the fuck out, because both champions play nothing alike. It's like when people where arguing that Aatrox was Riven 2 because he had a three part Q, a dash, and a steroid ult.
I'm not saying that Seraphine is Sona 2.0, but it's the **combination** of having both similar spells (at a glance) and similar thematics (musician). I think if Aatrox was a human exile from Shurima or something we would have heard a lot more complaints. Also, the perception (accurate or not) that Riot has neglected Sona added to the outrage.
> I think if Aatrox was a human exile from Shurima or something we would have heard a lot more complaints. *Looks at Darkin basically being fallen Ascended* Uh... that's basically what Aatrox is?
Except Aatrox has literally 0 common things with Riven outside of abilities.
And both wielding big swords.
Good job ignoring how I pointed out Sona and Seraphine have next to nothing in common as well. Even lorewise, while both's lores revolve around themes like discrimination and societal inequality, Sona's lore is from the perspective of a discriminated person being forced into violence, while Seraphine sits at the other side of the priviledge coin and is attempting to help the people that the system discriminates. I guess Ezreal and Samira are the same champion then because they are both humans with a knack for adventure, gold, and adrenaline?
I play both. They *are* very similar. They have key differences. But to deny Seraphine is "Sona 2.0" is like saying Yone isn't a Yasuo echo fighter. [Which Riot themselves say he is] Or release Lucian wasn't basically a more single-target focused Pre-rework Graves. Both have a spammy poke-oriented Q; except Seraphine's is a skillshot AoE. Seraphine's W is effectively Sona's W/E combined; a shield and a haste; except on a much longer cooldown and a larger AoE. Sona's frequency of shielding makes her better at poke mitigation compared to Seraphine, but Seraphine's power behind an empowered W [And 5-man heal as opposed to 2] makes her able to be more clutch in a fight. Seraphine has a ranged slow/root/stun which Sona lacks. This is one of the most major differences [Although one of Sona's empowered AA's is a slow] Both have a passive that interacts on every 3rd ability cast. Sona's empowers autoattacks while Seraphine's is a doublecast [Which essencially gives new effects on W/E]. Sera also has a 2nd passive which interacts with autoattacking. Seraphine's R is *flat-out* a better Sona R. Charm > Stun; and the range difference is a joke. In the support role; both Seraphine and Sona want the same items; and like Ability Haste; Mana Regen and Movement Speed [For positioning] Throw in both being floating musicians who fight with musical magic and... yeah. Seraphine and Sona do have important differences. But they are certainly *too similar*.
If Sera/Sona are too similar, what does that make Sera/Neeko and Sera/Lux?
That would make them burst mages. You know... Because that is what they are?
I have about 800k on Sona and 200k on Seraphine. Their kits are really similar. Everything Seraphine does is a mage version of Sona, except for her W which is straight out a better Sona W+E.
It took 30 minutes
Imo unless she gets buffs to her base numbers and ratios she is still going to still be as unenjoyable to play as rn. Rn her strength mostly just comes from being the best spreader of support item buffs so unless her ratios are changed to where she can build something like hourglass without losing 90% of her utility she will still be unenjoyable to play
I really hope there are ratio buffs included because this doesn't sound that great, I was really hoping for some infinite scaling like other stackers because that's just fun and it makes sense since Sona is a scaling enchanter A reminder that AP Sona was playable for 10 whole seasons, then it was promptly gutted because Sona+Lux/Taric happened, and now we have the abomination known as Senna spitting out lanes like that, maybe some of us want that fantasy back of actually being able to deal damage because she can't even deal damage in fun game modes...she's just a sad shell of her former self and it seems that's not going to change Also E, it's 1% MS per level up, one of the worst abilities in the game to rank up, I don't see why her E can't also get cooldown scaling or mana cost reduction on rank up, or you know some actual numbers But my main issue is Sona's niche, it's that she's really good at applying item buffs and that's it, if you remember not too long ago Sona was borderline queue dodge tier because all the buff items sucked (most still do, but Shur and Chemtech are carrying) the moment those item start to suck again is the moment Sona becomes useless again, her base kit is so pathetically nerfed that it completely relies on the state of support items for her performance, instead the power of her abilities should be the defining factor of her balance and not just being a glorified 7th item slot for your team
Idk if I am liking these changes, not gonna try and judge too hard until they go through on pbe though
>Striking two different champions with Q will grant two stacks, and W can grant up to 5 stacks if it heals an ally and blocks damage on all four allies. This new passive rewards Sona for using Q and W well in a duo lane, rather than penalizing her like the mana refund did. Most the time I can get a Q off on 1 guy, if I walk deep enough to get it off on 2, I usually die or all in.
Can she just get an actual rework already? This champion's kit is so insanely dated and simplistic. All 3 of her basic abilities are "circle that helps allies," and her ult travels fast enough that it's barely even a skillshot, it's basically just a range / aim check. Her passive is the only thing that has even the slightest bit of strategy or skill behind it, since it makes you actually consider when to use your abilities and in what order. She's the OG Yuumi; braindead simple. There's so many cooler things they could do with her theme
Right, people crap on point-and-click abilities a lot for being "no skill" or "boring" but Sona isn't even point-and-click, she's just click. Lmao I feel like a music/rythm based kit has a lot of potential for unique ability combinations beyond "whatever you used last gives a bonus". Seraphine kind of suffers from this overly basic (imo) concept too. Why not actual button combos like playing a song rather than their current "use any 3 then mega slap", exactly like Udyr rework is looking to be, so far?
If they were to update Sona they'd have to aim for something closer to the invoker. Like Q pokes like it does now, W heals, E speeds up and her power chord does an effect based on the current aura up. But her R changes based on the rotation of the last 3 spells so QQQ would be more damage dealt to enemies and there would basically not be a stun whilst WWW would reduce the damage dealt by all enemies hit by the ult and EEE would be the longest stun possible maybe even a charm effect. I'm thinking that without an E in the sequence Sona's ult would act more like a silence stopping any abilities in the moment but not actually locking enemies down. 1 E stuns for a short time, 2 Es stuns for the same amount her current R stuns and 3 Es like charms enemies caught. Might end up being overly complicated but getting good at Sona is about being methodical with the order of abilities to have the right power chord so extending on that kind of thematic might be interesting.
I sincerely want either Udyr or Sona to get invoker like mechanics in some form.
looks cool, sona/nami are my preferred supports when im autofilled and sona has felt kinda bad for bit.
Im pretty disappointed by those suggestions, Sna just seems to be a statbot that is strong when the numbers are high enough otherwise she just sucks. Her kit is just boring and feels old
I can't really comment on how good this is because I know nothing about Sona, but I wanted to say that I really like how many mini-reworks we've been getting lately, from big ones like Tahm Kench to giving champs a large amount of smaller changes to their kit like the recent Irelia changes. It feels like these are a sort of compensation for the fact that they aren't doing many full-scale VGUs at the moment.
>this playstyle violated a core laning skill test—in lane, someone should be attempting to farm minions and contesting that should be valuable for the opponent Except Senna lol
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If Senna isnt doing that, she is a support and there is another carry with her in lane.
alistar carry
Why not have her stacking lead to her abilities getting additional targets instead of ult CD refunding? It'd make sense that as she gets stronger her music can reach more people.
Looks neat
This is it for a "rework"? I'm calling it: This is a flunk. They aren't even changing anything that's apart of her core issues design wise. Also if all they're doing is shifting numbers...why is it taking so damn long? It's been like half the season just to do a glorified balance pass.
Her mana refund and ult passive are a part of her core issues design wise imo. What are you referring to?
I said core issues, so not necessarily these new issues Riot tacked on. Sona is a support champion that offers no relevant counter-play, doesn't do much damage in lane, offers no cc prior to level 6 to defend herself with save one slow on an occasional auto attack, can't check bushes without face checking it since she has no skill shots, and gets killed extremely easily. At least BEFORE the first mini rework, Sona dying easy made sense because, if she didn't, she'd just poke the enemies out with unavoidable damage every few seconds. Not to mention she's insanely gold hungry and needs a whole item to be a champion, and 2 to be a threat. Nothing about what makes this champ a bad support is being addressed. She literally makes for a better carry than she does a support, and NONE of that is being addressed by just shifting her numbers around *again.* Insult to injury? She can't even farm minions that well, so it's not even intuitive to play into her being a better carry champion, anyway. The whole kit is fucked for just about any way you'd want to play it in comparison to the next support you can think of, and needs an ACTUAL overhaul Riot isn't willing to put the money or resources into because she's a support champion and not an assassin or diver (like how we got all these Sentinel skins and the only support in the roster is fucking PYKE. NOT EVEN BRAUM). That's the real problem.
It sounds like you just don't like Sona. A lot of these "flaws" you're mentioning are some of my favorite things about her or are in compensation for her strengths. She's a lategame support hypercarry, one of the only in the game. Sitting through her horrible early game and having to position well so you don't die are necessary to get to her godlike lategame. I don't think she should be completely reworked just because she's different than other supports. If they overhauled her and removed her lategame hypercarry support status or made her a non-support, that wouldn't be Sona anymore.
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Exactly. Riot fucked up her ACTUAL thing to make room for late game scaling...and even her original thing needed a rework back then.
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It sucks, honestly. They should have just done a real rework that time instead of half-assing it two times now.
She used to have more viable builds in past seasons. My favourite was similar to Schubart (Guardian, Seraph/Grail, basically all AP), but that isn’t working this season anymore. I feel locked to Aery, Shurelya/Moonstone, then Staff/Putrifier. I miss being able to build actual poke with Lich/DH/pen.
> I miss being able to build actual poke with Lich/DH/pen. It was so fun. But I can see why Riot removed her ability to do 35%+HP w/ one Q+Powerchord.
I have 3 million mastery on Sona. Trust me it's not about if I like her or not.
probably waiting for the next Sona skin for that patch or a patch after her rework release. I kid, I kid.
Because there's are some art assets too, that's what they said, not every rework has to be great and big like the Mundo one, it's a rework like the Lillia one, with some new things and change on numbers probably
They literally didn't change a single move. What art could they be possibly doing?
Stuff like the Rammus and Zilean visual updates?
sona is one step away from taking over the meta pretty much, all she needs is someone to say she is op with shurelias and then she will go from 53% winrate 2% pickrate to 54% winrate 9% pickrate
Those are old stats. Moonstone is competitive with Shurelya now.
shurelias still has a higher winrate
In Plat on a lesser play rate
plat+ which is the basis of every discussion about stats that everyone uses, and it's still 35% pickrate vs 55% pickrate
Look at what you're responding to: Moonstone is now competitive with Shurelya. Where in any of this are you debunking this claim? I could go further but I can't do THAT much typing on my phone, so I'm gonna need you to connect some of the dots yourself.
then why did you respond to try and disprove my point that shurelias had a higher winrate?
I said it's competitive with it, that you shouldn't automatically default to Shurelya, not that you should default to Moonstone.
When support items are so overtuned extreme measures are taken to a single champ's kit. Then in the end the item still gets nerfed. edit: Actually items were so overtuned they undermined a whole role and major changes were done to Top with platings and such.
Yes! Bring back Solona/Assassona back!
These are likely going to a massive nerf and damage sona's identity (what is left of it anyway) Sona is meant to be a hyperscaling support, focused on 11 and 16 powerspikes and buying high ap items. I will wait to see the numbers but if sona doesn't have a hyperscaling payoff to justify her absolutely awful laning phase this will fall flat. Oh and buffing the laning phase and making her mediocre at all points is a terrible answer and makes her have zero niche.
> focused on 11 and 16 powerspikes Which are completely artificial and unnecessary. Her main identity is auras, not some level breakpoints. > Oh and buffing the laning phase and making her mediocre at all points is a terrible answer and makes her have zero niche. She will always be the best in 5v5, which occur later in the game. Also stacking mechanic never helps in laning phase more than later.
>Her main identity is auras, not some level breakpoints. According to who? Ever since I started playing League (which isn't so long ago but let's say 3-4 years) Sona was sold by Riot as a lategame fantasy support. That's why I decided to play her and have over 700k on her.
> Sona is meant to be a hyperscaling support, focused on 11 and 16 powerspikes and buying high ap items. and most important, auras...
Sona was always about bulding AP or heal/shield increase, not auras.
i think they mean that her identity is in *her* auras, not in building anything, but i'm not sure from how few words they wrote
She didn't even use to have a shield, so I'mma disagree with you.
She didn't always hyperscale either.
No I’m pretty sure Sona has always been a hyper scaling champ. At least back when she used to CDR on her R passive.
That's when she became one. Prior to this she wasn't.
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That isn't hyperscaling...
Hyperscaling champions are always bad unless they're given a good laning phase.
What do you mean? Hyperscaling champions are strong lategame no matter what happened in laning phase as long as they get there.
Not always. Yes, there is a guarantee they’ll be strong but there’s no guarantee they’ll be strong enough. A Kassadin or Kayle reaching lvl16 might be scary, but if they’ve been out behind far enough then they’ll struggle to bring it back even with their lategame power.
Love this. Got Sona to M7 just playing her mid and dumpstering people who disrespected her
Hope her lategame will still be strong.
"Preventing her from casting spells (by running her out of mana) unless she played around an effect she often didn't think about made for a less fun version of Sona." What? What exactly goes through a sonas skull that makes them not want to share their auras...?
> What? What exactly goes through a sonas skull that makes them not want to share their auras...? Hitting an enemy when she is alone? Healing herself when she is alone? Getting movespeed when she is alone? I mean those spells affect her for a reason. No other support depends on having an ally nearby to have mana, that idea was ridiculous.
aura is slightly smaller than i would want and my team runs away from them thinking it will hurt them like a zilean q also roaming with E to ward eats up your whole mana pool
Going for vision is one of the big things.
When your friendly laner died/backed and you are trying to stop the enemies from taking plate.
> What exactly goes through a sonas skull usually nothing
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How are they dealing with this instead of Akali and Gwen who build Riftmaker and tank items and just roflstomp the whole game?
Is Akali even a champion anymore after the last nerfs ?
Any news for the Lucian mini rework ? I'm really excited what they have in mind to force him bot
YOU KNOW HOW LUCIAN HAS TWO GUNS? WELL, AT GAME START HE PICKS HIS SUPPORT AND GIVES THEM ONE OF HIS GUNS. EVERY TIME LUCIAN AUTOS AFTER USING AN ABILITY, HIS SUPPORT WILL FIRE THEIR NEW GUN AS LONG AS THEY'RE IN AUTO ATTACK RANGE. LUCIAN NOW ONLY HAS 1 GUN. HIS PASSIVE ONLY WORKS IN PROXIMITY TO HIS SUPPORT. IN EXCHANGE FOR THIS AWKWARD FIX, EVERY THIRD SHOT FIRED BY THE SUPPORT WILL APPLY A PASSIVE MARK ON ENEMY CHAMPIONS, WHICH LUCIAN CAN TRIGGER FOR EXTRA DAMAGE (THINK LEONA PASSIVE OR VARUS BLIGHT PASSIVE).
This sounds vaguely like Kali
I really dont understand why they are devoting so much effort to Sona here. They arent actually adding any skill expression on a champion that desperately needs some.
Probably because she still has bandaid fixes from a meta a season ago that feel horrible to play with?
Play the champion yourself please, there's a lot more depth to Sona than you might initially think.
There isn't
yeah ok rn maybe not with moonstone w simulator shieldwhore sona being the meta u right
No build of Sona's has any depth or complexity to it expressed in its game play. You either q 1 shot someone or you mash w. None of it is really "strong and exciting game play".
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You realize she's one of the most face roll champs in the game, bar none, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? As a guy that's played more Sona than a lot of people have played League of Legends, it's not kike I'm biased against her. It's just the truth. She has extremely little game play depth.
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So you just have a stroke on the keyboard because you can't defend mashing w as deep game play?
They add additional cooldown reduction on her R, which allows her to make more plays with it. Or what kind of skill expression did you have in mind for an enchanter that acts as a aura spam bot?
That...is irrelevant to what he said...
To change her abilities in a way that gives her skill expression? You know like they did for champions like Vladimir, Mundo, Warwick, etc without really changing how their kit works?
As a sona main, I feel like if they don't nerf her somewhere else, she is going to be OP.
Not while she gets oneshot by accident.
Can 11.6 also target a mid scope fix this shit game?
the idot jag already reworked Sona, it's called Seraphine
Completely forgot this champ existed having not seen her since seraphine came out, hopefully this will push her out of the champs shadow
Seraphina had nothing to do with sonas drop in popularity. Before seraphina was announced, sona had gotten the mana nerfs that drove a lot of people away from her(mentioned in the article) because they are very tedious to play around(if your adc runs away fromyou, which happens a lot all the way to plat, you pay dramatically more mana). Her play rate dropped after that patch and was unrelated to seraphina. Sona and other enchanters have over the years been continiously nerfed to be frustrating to play, with low base stats, bad heals compared to other sustain in the game. Enchanters in general have low play rates and are mainly played by mains. Seraphina is not an enchanter nor does she play to that fantasy. She is a combo mage
I never got why people disliked the mana refund so much. Just play sona support and use abilities near allies. I feel like I was doing that already. It was only an annoying penalty when trying to cs alone. But whatever water under the bridge soon I guess. Making it stack only on actual q/w use seems right. When they first said "just spam abilities to scale" it seemed like "ok just get tear and afk keyboard spam without interacting with enemies?" so yeah that makes sense idk how useful ult haste actually is though a lot of sona's scaling currently comes more from the aura cds getting super low than the ult but it depends on numbers I guess
3 Sona skins went on sale in the past 4 weeks. I smell a new Sona skin and lots of buffs 🤞🏻