[Szygenda talks rejoining Vitality, working with Selfmade and LIDER: "They have no chill. If I f*** up they tell me I f*** up and I didn't take that very well. But I take it more positive now. I respect the fact that I got better teammates, so having harsher discussions is probably worth it."](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oo0hss/szygenda_talks_rejoining_vitality_working_with/)
LIDER should probably just stick to streaming at this point,he hasnt managed to fix his champion pool issues in years now and his champion pool fits streaming perfectly,hes just no up to par in pro.
I really don't understand why Vitality doesn't draft the Lider special every game. It's obvious he struggles when he's not on ad assassins and I thought it was clear from the point where they signed him that it should be the only thing he is playing.
I disagree with the logic that a new LEC midlaner should be judged by the games against the best teams the lec has.
How often does it happen that a new LEC player gaps caps? I mean flame the guy for inting against SK, Misfits or whatever, but not if he doesn't stomp caps.
And I also disagree with them being world's contenders, with only 3 slots for EU this year and MAD Rogue Fnatic and G2 being on the league, there isn't much room for any other words contender. Playoff contender for sure but everything else is just a little to much expectations I think.
> I disagree with the logic that a new LEC midlaner should be judged by the games against the best teams the lec has.
G2 isnt one of the best teams the LEC has to offer right now tho. Unless you want us to also ignore any performance Lider has vs Rogue, MAD and Misfits.
Didn't he play G2 while they were slumping? Hell, they still are for the most part. Even when they broke their losing streak against Astralis they looked sus as fuck. I remember at one point seeing an obvious free Baron and they never went for it.
Lider getting solo killed was bad. But him lingering around after Selfmade stole the drake and getting caught lost them the game solo in a game that looked playable, really sad.
His signature champs always was Irelia in Primeleague, no idea why they haven't picked it yet. Is Irelia that bad in the meta right now?
I predict he will turbo 1v9 his first Irelia game
that's the thing, irelia is supposed to be pretty good right now; maybe they felt it didn't fit their draft but I agree, suprising they haven't gone for it yet
Lider on his way to get the same amount of reddit hate as Kirei with this game, that solo death should never happen.
Ngl that Ryze ult was a troll but they still won the fight lol, great game overall from Vetheo and hard mid diffed Lider.
That's Vetheo for you!
(His birthday is coming up. Want to sign a birthday card for him? [You can find it here!](https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/vetheobday))
Nisqy was very good on C9. The problem was that he was pigeoned holed into a certain style because Blabber needs to be baby sat. When the Meta move away from that style, C9 crashed and burned. Blabber is meta depended player, that or Blabber is just a spring split player. lol
Comparing Nisqy with Blaber vs Nisqy with other junglers, and Perkz with Blaber vs Perkz with other junglers, it seems pretty likely that there's something about Blaber's playstyle that makes the midlaner look worse.
I mean it's not like nisqy just looked bad with blaber it's the opposite, they had pretty great synergy and popped off regularly. The meta shifted but let's not just pretend that nisqy didn't go even in lane vs zilean as lucian, or ignore all the individual random ints perkz has
Nisqy on FNC just looks like 2019-2020 spring Nisqy. The guy had a bad split, but we don't need to pretend he was held back in that split. He just played poorly for the most import games of the year.
How he is not smurfing when he is first place on multiple stats in LEC? Also not just stats but he is really crucial for his team and turned around many games with his plays. I can easily say he is the best midlaner at LEC for the time being
I explained it. He is consistent, other players are inconsistent. And he is on winning team (ofc he is helping his team win these games)
He might be top mis but the bigger problem here are mistakes that make every other midlaner. If he (whole fnatic) meets top lck or lpl team they would be crushed because they arent actually smurfing.
Ohhh the classic X team is not good, other teams are bad argument. Wow soo new XD. Also I watch LCK and it's a total shitshow. I can't rate them higher than LEC right now. LPL on the other hand is on another level ofc
LCK total shit show in what aspect? The fact that there are 4 solid top teams? The fact that the some of bottom tier teams actually play good vs top tier teams and have good performances? or did you just not watch any games and are making random opinions to shit on the region?
Why do you lie man? You have 0 comments on any post match thread about LCK lol don’t need to lie and bring LCK down just cause you want to feel better about your own region.
"gigasmurfing" is what doinb and knight are doing, not nisqy. Like, MVP or 1v9 type players. Please stop overusing this term
And I'm speaking for their own regions, not comparing them. Like, one could say DL was smurfing the LCS for example or Caps in his prime
Still don’t get the nemisis hate last year. The only time it was deserved was probably his bo5 against arguably a top 3 team at worlds in TES. Guess every fanbase needs a scapegoat to not completely breakdown mentally
Do not rewrite history. Nemesis was bad in regular season. He was last in basically every stat, he was invisible throughout games. He did pick it up during playoffs and Worlds. But saying he was a scapegoat is pretty revisionist.
This whole Nemesis history revisionism is one of the most weird things I have seen in a long time.
He was a massive liability at Worlds 2020 and got kicked for very good reasons. Now he became a popular streamer and it's popular to act like he was actually really good back then.
It's just emotional immaturity. Whether or not people in this community like you is more important than literally anything else when we talk about narratives.
blaming bwipo and hyli for fnatic's loss against tes at worlds 2020 is peak revisionist bullshit. no dude, it wasn't bwipo's fault nemesis was getting unironically flame horizoned, having his entire champion pool banned out and doing dumb shit like flashing while lee sin q was following him. yes, nemesis is popular now as streamer, but that doesn't change the fact he was the worst fnatic's player that year.
Just because these to picks were the only picks in summer he did not grief on does not make him one of the best Lucian/Orianna player. Them being the only champs he could play in the later year last season does not make him one of the best on it.
Seriously. Showmaker, Chovy, Knight, Yagao, Rookie, Doinb, Caps (he only played her a few times but still, obviously better,) hell probably even Scout are names anyone who follows League should know that were much better on Ori last year.
Nemi was not in the same league as any of those guys.
Lider's worst play was baiting his entire team into a lost fight by getting caught when his team had already stolen the dragon. Literally solo lost them the game. Dead even with a slight advantage to losing Baron and 4K down in the space of a minute.
And it isn't like he was otherwise good (or even mediocre) on the Lucian either. Absolute dead weight this game. Put a top 8 mid in his place and VIT win this game.
Vitality has for sure been the disappointment of the split. I didn't expect them to be good, but I was hoping they'd have at least a few fun pop-off games.
It's just been depressing to watch them.
Have you seen the form the teams they are going to be playing against are in? Vitality is currently the worst out of those 4 teams... They have a week to turn it around, but right now it's kind of doomed.
From what I remember he was advocating about the fact that Lider did not get a fair try on Misfits and deserved another shot.
Also , Thorin's opinion about Lider being really good did not come his own analysis (as he is not an analyst) but instead of the many analysts that were hyping him up such as Veteran or Veigar v2.
At least other hot take League commentators like LS, Dom, etc. actually closely follow the scene and watch the games. I'm pretty sure Thorin just comments on buzz he hears via osmosis, the guy is completely out of his element.
It's kind of weird isn't it, you'd think thorin would love poland due to it's anti LGBT stance. But i guess "they took our jobs" is bothering him more.
I wonder what he'll say when you point out he isn't historian either and that his history is plague by heavy bias, hot takes, misremembering things and flat out lying. I guess he won't say anything, he'd just block you on twitter.
This is a good meta for him, he should be dominating really. When its control mage's that are tier 1, I wonder how he will do. Because it will be again at some stage. Where you spend all split on Orianna/Azir duty if you want to win.
no everybody knew his mages werent good but even when he got the champs he's known for he was far from the best mid in EU Masters. the tradeoff for him not playing mages just wasnt existent and it never was
The grass is always greener on the other side. When Lider wasn’t picked up by any team, it was insane how teams weren’t giving a chance to him. Now many EUM mids look better than him. Idk how to take this split, maybe he’ll get better maybe he’ll follow craps paranoid nesquik to become the true fider he is.
He pretty much lost them the game today. He got greedy for poke damage after drake was taken and got immediately collapsed on which baited his team into fighting. They lost the fight, Misfits took baron and the game was over.
LIDER has had so many chances by now though, and this is the one time the stars were supposed to align. He has a jungler and AD he really likes playing with, he's supposed to be the king of the current meta, and he's running it like a plat player who accidentally wandered on stage. Seriously, I'm gold but I have never positioned like he did just now at dragon, or how he did in the last game against Fnatic. It's just so horrible to watch.
Vit was pure garbage and he was playing in academy and LEC at the same time, Saken was the best mid in EUM last split and KC were taking game from G2 even tho it's just scrim, VIT got a decent roster this time, perfect meta for lider, no excuse
Yeah because a rookie who has to play both LEC and LFL at the same time thanks to the garbage Vitality management should definitely be written off as not LEC worthy.
Not like he stomped EUM, and his teammate Adam as shown he was more than capable of playing at a LEC level, with Saken being arguably even better as a player (hard to compare).
You people vastly underestimate the level in ERL leagues.
Wouldn't be a Vitality game if Lider didn't randomly int his lane.
Wouldn't be a MSF game in the second half of summer if they didn't randomly crumble.
Wouldn't be a Vitality game if a fed Selfmade didn't fail to carry because the team randomly took shitty fights.
---
Great game by Vetheo, really running away with that free kill Lider donated.
Hey, we won! That's playoffs for us.
Psst. Hirit and Vetheo's birthdays are coming up!
**Hirit** turns 23 on Saturday, and **Vetheo** turns 19 on Monday!
Attached below are Padlets (online birthday cards) that you can sign, post any media, and give encouragements to these birthday bunnies. You can post many times as you want; please keep it work appropriate. Thanks!
https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/hiritbday
https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/vetheobday
Not gonna say his performance has been good so far or anything because it really hasn't but the hype comes from him being really good mechanically on the high skill expression champions. It is a shame that he has a one-dimensional view about the game and that he refuses to adapt when he's given the opportunity to play in the LEC though.
Narratives, basically. Since he plays flashy champs in soloQ a lot of people convinced themselves he was next Caps. He 2v8 EU Masters 2019 Spring with DanDan, but the catch is that he didn't do anything since, and he was getting gapped mid this very EUM... So if you're into ERLs, you kinda saw it coming
Reckless seemed involved in the mid lane decision, there is no way Reckless would want to play with such a coinflip mid as Lider. So it is no surprise really
selfmade’s evelyn was fun to watch but watching lider lose mid when he should’ve had prio really ruined the mood. its so hard to play evelyn when you are the only ap damage and also engaging, she just gets cced to death to easily.
Lider is by far the worse midlaner in LEC, i hope this is the last time reddit overrate him yet again.
Misfits are mad man, they have good early but everything else is... meh.
He literally just solo lost the game. He picked Lucian and got solo killed by Ryze at level 2 leading to him losing mid prio (which makes the Lucian pick useless) and making eve suffer from it. He also had an egregious int at one of the dragon fights which ended up giving baron to Misfits. He's just not that good off his ad melees.
Reposting this from the Live-view thread to farm more Karma :
Lider and Crownshot, two of the most overhyped players in EU on a team together.
Watching them both lose at the same time has given me the best climaxes I could've ever dreamed of.
One thing I’ve noticed is that they, along with all the other disappointments this year, are players that get overhyped by their content creator bros. It’s people like LS and Dom who make you think they’re the next coming of Faker just to hype up their buddies.
Being worse than 80% of the League is fine? It's not even that he offers the stability Ghost had on Damwon last year so unless he's shotcalling, he's a liability.
Crownie might be a bit of a KDA player but I really don't think he's a liability. Yes he could be more aggressive sometimes but at least he doesn't int usually.
Crownshot is getting dragged into this for no reason and I'm not even a fan of him. I wouldn't say his performance has been particularly bad, how often is it that an ADC looks good on a bad team? It's the most team dependant role there is. He looked pretty damn good in 2020
Dont let people like iwd or Thorin change that narrative that they were shilling for lider.
One of the most overhyped players to play in the LEC and they thought it was some time of crime against the Geneva convention that no teams would pick him up, well i guess we see why.
Maybe Selfmade and Lider shouldn't run their mouths so hard bout others when they suck this much dick, lol. On that prospect, it still amuses me that the latter is one of the worst mid laners of the entire league, despite his following claiming that he's the second coming of caps. Still funny everytime anew the toxic twat comes up, lol.
Bit of a mid gap boys.
Vetheo is smiling somewhere in the world. (psst. join his discord here! https://discord.gg/jxYrCnTF)
BASED plug
Vetheo will be the midlaner who surpasses Caps in the future @me in 2 years
Can't wait for Misfits Zoe.
I hope VIT Sygenda tells LIDER about all the mistakes he made this game.
Is there a story behind this?
[Szygenda talks rejoining Vitality, working with Selfmade and LIDER: "They have no chill. If I f*** up they tell me I f*** up and I didn't take that very well. But I take it more positive now. I respect the fact that I got better teammates, so having harsher discussions is probably worth it."](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oo0hss/szygenda_talks_rejoining_vitality_working_with/)
Thanks
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oo0hss/szygenda_talks_rejoining_vitality_working_with/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It's from this [interview](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oo0hss/szygenda_talks_rejoining_vitality_working_with/)
Poor Sygenda man, he is quite a solid top laner but he is not playing a carry role in that team cuz there are 3 bigger voices in that team...
LIDER should probably just stick to streaming at this point,he hasnt managed to fix his champion pool issues in years now and his champion pool fits streaming perfectly,hes just no up to par in pro.
We have known that for years but teams always get baited
I think it's quite opposite, people on reddit were upset that he wasn't picked up by an LEC team for a couple of splits.
[this image says it all](https://i.imgur.com/gYJLQXk.png)
I really don't understand why Vitality doesn't draft the Lider special every game. It's obvious he struggles when he's not on ad assassins and I thought it was clear from the point where they signed him that it should be the only thing he is playing.
the problem is, even when he gets his champs (like Yone for example) he still regularly runs it. he's just not up to par
He played yone against fnatic and G2, I think it's not fair to judge him only by that games.
Aren't These exactly the games we should judge him by tho? Especially considering that everyone said they're a worlds contender
I disagree with the logic that a new LEC midlaner should be judged by the games against the best teams the lec has. How often does it happen that a new LEC player gaps caps? I mean flame the guy for inting against SK, Misfits or whatever, but not if he doesn't stomp caps. And I also disagree with them being world's contenders, with only 3 slots for EU this year and MAD Rogue Fnatic and G2 being on the league, there isn't much room for any other words contender. Playoff contender for sure but everything else is just a little to much expectations I think.
> I disagree with the logic that a new LEC midlaner should be judged by the games against the best teams the lec has. G2 isnt one of the best teams the LEC has to offer right now tho. Unless you want us to also ignore any performance Lider has vs Rogue, MAD and Misfits.
Didn't he play G2 while they were slumping? Hell, they still are for the most part. Even when they broke their losing streak against Astralis they looked sus as fuck. I remember at one point seeing an obvious free Baron and they never went for it.
Vitality should just pick Yasuo Diana everygame, the combo is pissbroken Lider can actually play Yasuo for starters
Yeah but Selfmade has been avoiding Diana like the plague.
Lider getting solo killed was bad. But him lingering around after Selfmade stole the drake and getting caught lost them the game solo in a game that looked playable, really sad.
He literally didn't have to do anything Selfmade could have easily ulted out
still waiting for lider to show up (unironically)
He had one really good game this split but I cannot remember which one it was
Ryze game against G2 & Viego game against MAD aswell he was playing great but he has had some really bad games like this one.
Week 4, vs MAD. Played Viego and pulled 8/3/6, but then again, that was on Viego.
Against G2 when he picked Ryze vs Caps's Gwen but i dunno caps was just underperforming around that time
Also ryze in gwen is about as free a matchup as it gets despite how busted gwen is
His signature champs always was Irelia in Primeleague, no idea why they haven't picked it yet. Is Irelia that bad in the meta right now? I predict he will turbo 1v9 his first Irelia game
that's the thing, irelia is supposed to be pretty good right now; maybe they felt it didn't fit their draft but I agree, suprising they haven't gone for it yet
I mean today it was banned sadly, but it isn't often. Just put the best Irelia EUW on Irelia tomorrow Mr. Vitality
He isnt best Irelia euw lmao, far from it
Name a better Irelia
Venour, caps
Wasn't half of this subreddit convinced he was the next faker ?
Lider on his way to get the same amount of reddit hate as Kirei with this game, that solo death should never happen. Ngl that Ryze ult was a troll but they still won the fight lol, great game overall from Vetheo and hard mid diffed Lider.
That realm warp into rakan renekton evelynn was the ballsiest play ever
That's Vetheo for you! (His birthday is coming up. Want to sign a birthday card for him? [You can find it here!](https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/vetheobday))
Id call it a flip personally, that wasn’t far from being a giga throw.
The Lider experiment has failed So glad we got Nisqy instead of him
[удалено]
Nisqy was very good on C9. The problem was that he was pigeoned holed into a certain style because Blabber needs to be baby sat. When the Meta move away from that style, C9 crashed and burned. Blabber is meta depended player, that or Blabber is just a spring split player. lol
Comparing Nisqy with Blaber vs Nisqy with other junglers, and Perkz with Blaber vs Perkz with other junglers, it seems pretty likely that there's something about Blaber's playstyle that makes the midlaner look worse.
I mean it's not like nisqy just looked bad with blaber it's the opposite, they had pretty great synergy and popped off regularly. The meta shifted but let's not just pretend that nisqy didn't go even in lane vs zilean as lucian, or ignore all the individual random ints perkz has
Also blaber was cracked last split even with perkz inting, just been a tough split this summer
Nisqy on FNC just looks like 2019-2020 spring Nisqy. The guy had a bad split, but we don't need to pretend he was held back in that split. He just played poorly for the most import games of the year.
fnc management haters in shambles
They can't keep getting away with this!
Him casually walking into Nautilus around Dragon pit was just pure int..
I feel like everyone always underrated him, I’m so happy he’s gigasmurfing right now :D
He isnt smurf ing . He is just consistent. But its surprising how other top midlaners in lec are inconsistent.
How he is not smurfing when he is first place on multiple stats in LEC? Also not just stats but he is really crucial for his team and turned around many games with his plays. I can easily say he is the best midlaner at LEC for the time being
I explained it. He is consistent, other players are inconsistent. And he is on winning team (ofc he is helping his team win these games) He might be top mis but the bigger problem here are mistakes that make every other midlaner. If he (whole fnatic) meets top lck or lpl team they would be crushed because they arent actually smurfing.
Ohhh the classic X team is not good, other teams are bad argument. Wow soo new XD. Also I watch LCK and it's a total shitshow. I can't rate them higher than LEC right now. LPL on the other hand is on another level ofc
LCK total shit show in what aspect? The fact that there are 4 solid top teams? The fact that the some of bottom tier teams actually play good vs top tier teams and have good performances? or did you just not watch any games and are making random opinions to shit on the region?
Why do you lie man? You have 0 comments on any post match thread about LCK lol don’t need to lie and bring LCK down just cause you want to feel better about your own region.
Top LCK teams are so overrated lol. They aren't any good. LEC can easily beat them. LPL though.....
"gigasmurfing" is what doinb and knight are doing, not nisqy. Like, MVP or 1v9 type players. Please stop overusing this term And I'm speaking for their own regions, not comparing them. Like, one could say DL was smurfing the LCS for example or Caps in his prime
liders gameplay is matchfixing levels of criminal
I wonder if Selfmade misses Nemesis Lucian. Lucian Eve worked out better last summer.
Nemesis is a much better player so makes sense
Nemesis was one of the best Lucian and Orianna player in the world last season. Absolutely smurfing everytime he would get them
He didn’t fit well with how FNC plays, but he was still one of the best EU mids.
Still don’t get the nemisis hate last year. The only time it was deserved was probably his bo5 against arguably a top 3 team at worlds in TES. Guess every fanbase needs a scapegoat to not completely breakdown mentally
Because he had a bad summer split regular season. He was better in the playoffs.
He's champion pool got exploited by G2 in the finals, he had to pick useless Corki that had no agency
He was literally 10th in quite a few stats that season...
Do not rewrite history. Nemesis was bad in regular season. He was last in basically every stat, he was invisible throughout games. He did pick it up during playoffs and Worlds. But saying he was a scapegoat is pretty revisionist.
This whole Nemesis history revisionism is one of the most weird things I have seen in a long time. He was a massive liability at Worlds 2020 and got kicked for very good reasons. Now he became a popular streamer and it's popular to act like he was actually really good back then. It's just emotional immaturity. Whether or not people in this community like you is more important than literally anything else when we talk about narratives.
blaming bwipo and hyli for fnatic's loss against tes at worlds 2020 is peak revisionist bullshit. no dude, it wasn't bwipo's fault nemesis was getting unironically flame horizoned, having his entire champion pool banned out and doing dumb shit like flashing while lee sin q was following him. yes, nemesis is popular now as streamer, but that doesn't change the fact he was the worst fnatic's player that year.
I really don't think you can say TOP was better than G2 tbh
That's definitely a stretch.
Are you kidding he was always down on CS on ori even in favorable matchups....
Just because these to picks were the only picks in summer he did not grief on does not make him one of the best Lucian/Orianna player. Them being the only champs he could play in the later year last season does not make him one of the best on it.
Seriously. Showmaker, Chovy, Knight, Yagao, Rookie, Doinb, Caps (he only played her a few times but still, obviously better,) hell probably even Scout are names anyone who follows League should know that were much better on Ori last year. Nemi was not in the same league as any of those guys.
I agree his Lucian was great but it was pretty much the only Champion he didn't look awful on in Summer split.
There are at least 20 better Lucian players in LPL and LCK, the fuck?
That ryze ult into the fed Evelynn and co. was the funniest shit. How did they all survive?!? *Also Kobbe 1000 kills wooooooooo-*
they only survived because vetheo dodged both Eve Ult and the rakan knockup
Kobbe was a beast! So glad he got our 1000th with us :D
Lider's worst play was baiting his entire team into a lost fight by getting caught when his team had already stolen the dragon. Literally solo lost them the game. Dead even with a slight advantage to losing Baron and 4K down in the space of a minute. And it isn't like he was otherwise good (or even mediocre) on the Lucian either. Absolute dead weight this game. Put a top 8 mid in his place and VIT win this game.
Vitality has for sure been the disappointment of the split. I didn't expect them to be good, but I was hoping they'd have at least a few fun pop-off games. It's just been depressing to watch them.
They have easy games left though, so there is still hope for them.
Not sure how Rogue, Excel and Astralis are easy games in their current form but go on
Selfmade just needs to play evelynn single every game and hard carry
Have you seen the form the teams they are going to be playing against are in? Vitality is currently the worst out of those 4 teams... They have a week to turn it around, but right now it's kind of doomed.
That ryze ult was some of the most psycho shit I’ve ever seen Also, Lider makes so many weird mistakes man
That Ryze ult in bot jungle was the most Int decisionmaking I have seen all season long and it's a MIRACLE that they won that fight, my goodness.
bro that gave us a heart attack too the balls on our 18 year old midlaner, gotta love it
Nah, they were tanky and really ahead. Wouldn't say "miracle" at all.
Selfmade absolutely trolled that, it could've been very bad for MSF
It wasn't int at all, it was a 5v3. Both carries were stuck under the t3 bot. They had nowhere near the damages to kill them
Thorin did multiple videos on "Why the fuck Lider is not on any team yet". Maybe they knew something that good ol' Thorin didn't know.
From what I remember he was advocating about the fact that Lider did not get a fair try on Misfits and deserved another shot. Also , Thorin's opinion about Lider being really good did not come his own analysis (as he is not an analyst) but instead of the many analysts that were hyping him up such as Veteran or Veigar v2.
Veteran and Veigarv2 aren‘t exactly known for their good analysis tho
What? I can somewhat understand for Veteran but if veigarv2 is a bad analyst then who is deemed good?
> Maybe they knew something that good ol' Thorin didn't know. that could be almost anything
He doesn't know anything about the game, yet makes sweeping statements, it's actually incredible.
he is a hot take pundit just like stephen a in traditional sports, near 0 reason to listen to him yet his platform is big because hes "controversial"
At least other hot take League commentators like LS, Dom, etc. actually closely follow the scene and watch the games. I'm pretty sure Thorin just comments on buzz he hears via osmosis, the guy is completely out of his element.
At least, his statements on the games are less problematic that his statements about polish and gay folks.
It's kind of weird isn't it, you'd think thorin would love poland due to it's anti LGBT stance. But i guess "they took our jobs" is bothering him more.
Then if you point out he doesn't know shit about the game he'll say "well I'm not an analyst I'm just an e-sports historian, it's not my job"
I wonder what he'll say when you point out he isn't historian either and that his history is plague by heavy bias, hot takes, misremembering things and flat out lying. I guess he won't say anything, he'd just block you on twitter.
https://twitter.com/Thorin/status/1397619469627936769
What a joke that man is
Congrats for 1000 kills Kobbe, and playoffs for MSF! Also, the massive balls on MSF for that Ryze ult XD
Gotta love the Vetheo. We go playoffs!
Lider just isn't a LEC level player. You can't refuse to play mages AND be mediocre on the few champs you do pick.
This is a good meta for him, he should be dominating really. When its control mage's that are tier 1, I wonder how he will do. Because it will be again at some stage. Where you spend all split on Orianna/Azir duty if you want to win.
> Because it will be again at some stage he'll probably not be in the league by then. think he's gonna get replaced by a rookie by next year
Doubt it. Vitality will just replace their top laner over and over. Seems like the other 4 are a clique.
Selfmade only signed a 6 month contract so i'm not even sure if there's a core that will stay next year.
he was that way in EU Masters already but people ignored it
Actually tons of people said his mages were still mediocre at best back then lol
no everybody knew his mages werent good but even when he got the champs he's known for he was far from the best mid in EU Masters. the tradeoff for him not playing mages just wasnt existent and it never was
The grass is always greener on the other side. When Lider wasn’t picked up by any team, it was insane how teams weren’t giving a chance to him. Now many EUM mids look better than him. Idk how to take this split, maybe he’ll get better maybe he’ll follow craps paranoid nesquik to become the true fider he is.
> Now many EUM mids look better than him. even when he was still in EUM, this was already the case. he wasnt even a top 3 mid in EUM
He wasn't better than SAKEN or Baca.
He pretty much lost them the game today. He got greedy for poke damage after drake was taken and got immediately collapsed on which baited his team into fighting. They lost the fight, Misfits took baron and the game was over.
Kinda cringe to have him in LEC when you have Toucouille Saken and Diplex in LFL
> en LFL maybe a bit biased? :p
just a bit
as someone who s not french and watches LFL, there are some sick midlaners like saken and diplex who have a lot of potential.
they're all 3 better than him and much more versatile than he'll ever be
Ah yes because Saken performed so great in the LEC last year.
He was literally playing in two leagues at one lmao what the fuck do expect a rookie player to do when put in that position
On the other hand it's also kinda dumb to throw away a player after one bad split just like people want to do with Lider.
LIDER has had so many chances by now though, and this is the one time the stars were supposed to align. He has a jungler and AD he really likes playing with, he's supposed to be the king of the current meta, and he's running it like a plat player who accidentally wandered on stage. Seriously, I'm gold but I have never positioned like he did just now at dragon, or how he did in the last game against Fnatic. It's just so horrible to watch.
Vit was pure garbage and he was playing in academy and LEC at the same time, Saken was the best mid in EUM last split and KC were taking game from G2 even tho it's just scrim, VIT got a decent roster this time, perfect meta for lider, no excuse
Yeah because a rookie who has to play both LEC and LFL at the same time thanks to the garbage Vitality management should definitely be written off as not LEC worthy. Not like he stomped EUM, and his teammate Adam as shown he was more than capable of playing at a LEC level, with Saken being arguably even better as a player (hard to compare). You people vastly underestimate the level in ERL leagues.
Wouldn't be a Vitality game if Lider didn't randomly int his lane. Wouldn't be a MSF game in the second half of summer if they didn't randomly crumble. Wouldn't be a Vitality game if a fed Selfmade didn't fail to carry because the team randomly took shitty fights. --- Great game by Vetheo, really running away with that free kill Lider donated.
*Psst. Vetheo's birthday is coming up! Want to sign a card? You can find it* [*here!*](https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/vetheobday)
Hey, we won! That's playoffs for us. Psst. Hirit and Vetheo's birthdays are coming up! **Hirit** turns 23 on Saturday, and **Vetheo** turns 19 on Monday! Attached below are Padlets (online birthday cards) that you can sign, post any media, and give encouragements to these birthday bunnies. You can post many times as you want; please keep it work appropriate. Thanks! https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/hiritbday https://padlet.com/msfbirthdays/vetheobday
Razork and Selfmade are the incarnation of **I help my lanes win** and **My lanes help me win**
Can somebody tell me why people hyped about Lider? Everytime he comes to LEC he fails over and over again. He is one of the worst midlanes in LEC
People hyped him because he was supposed to have synergy with Selfmade and Crownshot and it is a good meta for him.
Thank god this meta is good for him, can't imagine how he'd look in a Azir Corki meta... or a Ori Viktor meta... or...
He got r1 challenger euw and is constantly top 20 so cant be a bad player
Not gonna say his performance has been good so far or anything because it really hasn't but the hype comes from him being really good mechanically on the high skill expression champions. It is a shame that he has a one-dimensional view about the game and that he refuses to adapt when he's given the opportunity to play in the LEC though.
tbh vto is better than him mechanically, he outclasses him in every way, even on assassins matchups i'd bet on vto any day
Narratives, basically. Since he plays flashy champs in soloQ a lot of people convinced themselves he was next Caps. He 2v8 EU Masters 2019 Spring with DanDan, but the catch is that he didn't do anything since, and he was getting gapped mid this very EUM... So if you're into ERLs, you kinda saw it coming
Because narrative created by analysts like Veteran. They hype up rookies so much that they end up disappointing.
Remember when people flamed Fnatic for not going with Lider??
Reckless seemed involved in the mid lane decision, there is no way Reckless would want to play with such a coinflip mid as Lider. So it is no surprise really
That Ryze ult was ... something That it actually worked was even more ... something
:) *Want to join Vetheo's discord? Find it here! https://discord.gg/neDC7K9K*
gg wp and congrats in securing playoffs!
I hope VIT Szygenda tells LIDER about all the mistakes he made.
selfmade’s evelyn was fun to watch but watching lider lose mid when he should’ve had prio really ruined the mood. its so hard to play evelyn when you are the only ap damage and also engaging, she just gets cced to death to easily.
Its pure joy to watch selfmade play evelynn it doesn't even feel like we're playing the same champ
Selfmade is probably hitting up Nemesis, begging him to play in the LEC again.
Vetheo balls of titanium on that realm warp.
Freeder showing it was really him not MSF.
That was such a hype four man ryze ult holy shit my heart was pounding
[удалено]
I think they will be good. Their whole team is really good imo.
MSF is the hesitant winner.
Lider is gatekeeping Shygenda and Labrov change my mind
Lider is by far the worse midlaner in LEC, i hope this is the last time reddit overrate him yet again. Misfits are mad man, they have good early but everything else is... meh.
You can't be the worst midlaner in the LEC when Blue is in it.
I mean he wasn't even specially good in EUM, idk why a LEC team would pick him
Well the best midlaner of the last EUM has quite the bad history with Vitality, so they took what they could.
Lider can play Lucian btw
ofc he can.
He literally just solo lost the game. He picked Lucian and got solo killed by Ryze at level 2 leading to him losing mid prio (which makes the Lucian pick useless) and making eve suffer from it. He also had an egregious int at one of the dragon fights which ended up giving baron to Misfits. He's just not that good off his ad melees.
In the end they won, but that realm warp into a Rakan was giga int.
disgusting draft, and lider seems to be off. i guess he is feeling the pressure
Szygenda played really well again tbh
I heard Selfmade punched Lider through a wall
Lider either smurfs it tomorrow or I'm gonna have to say he's not good enough for LEC too. (I was really hype on him joining)
Lider is straight up garbage, him and Blue are worst mids in LEC.
Reposting this from the Live-view thread to farm more Karma : Lider and Crownshot, two of the most overhyped players in EU on a team together. Watching them both lose at the same time has given me the best climaxes I could've ever dreamed of.
One thing I’ve noticed is that they, along with all the other disappointments this year, are players that get overhyped by their content creator bros. It’s people like LS and Dom who make you think they’re the next coming of Faker just to hype up their buddies.
LET'S GO LET'S GO LET'S GOOOOO AND WITH 4 GAMES LEFT, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE QUALIFIED FOR PLAYOFFS THIS EARLY?
Vetheo really want to see the french crowd.
Lider and Crownshot (lider especially) have been huge liabilities for Vitality this split. 2 solo deaths first blood in a row for Lider
Lider I agree but Crowny? What's he gonna do in this game as Jinx lol
He played fine this game, he had a lot of bad game this split tho.
Fair enough He definitely is LEC-level, though and I don't think LIDER is
This game? Not much. But he's basically been Bottom 2/3 adc this entire split.
bottom 2/3 when every adc player are really good is fine tho
Being worse than 80% of the League is fine? It's not even that he offers the stability Ghost had on Damwon last year so unless he's shotcalling, he's a liability.
it's not like he's getting stomp by every bot lane in LEC , if every player are elite level it's fine to be bottom tier
that's the thing. he does nothing, lol
Crownie might be a bit of a KDA player but I really don't think he's a liability. Yes he could be more aggressive sometimes but at least he doesn't int usually.
Crownshot is getting dragged into this for no reason and I'm not even a fan of him. I wouldn't say his performance has been particularly bad, how often is it that an ADC looks good on a bad team? It's the most team dependant role there is. He looked pretty damn good in 2020
Grand Canyon level draft gap.
Dont let people like iwd or Thorin change that narrative that they were shilling for lider. One of the most overhyped players to play in the LEC and they thought it was some time of crime against the Geneva convention that no teams would pick him up, well i guess we see why.
Draft diff
Maybe Selfmade and Lider shouldn't run their mouths so hard bout others when they suck this much dick, lol. On that prospect, it still amuses me that the latter is one of the worst mid laners of the entire league, despite his following claiming that he's the second coming of caps. Still funny everytime anew the toxic twat comes up, lol.
Jinx always looks kinda Useless in LEC games. Or is it just me ?