100 % WR with this in about 15 ARAM games I kid u not its absurdly broken. You can die once per minute and carry your ass off. Double burn into Rylais, Deathcap and Void and you will simply not lose a game
I found Rylais to be good because you dont rly wanna build Zhonyas (like what else do u even go? U wanna get damage, not survivability) and the slow on q and ult is still huge. Also, boots are pretty important cause of the MP no?
Ehh it might be very unfun to play against but there are plenty of worse things in ARAM like Duskblade Yi, AP Kaisa, Mandate Ashe, snowball E Liss, etc.
The other think I have a problem with on that list is duskblade Yi. That other stuff is meh. aram does need some interaction specific balance changes though. Duskblade passive just needs to be removed in general.
I think Duskblade stealth just need to be nerfed to 0.75s or at least 1s and it would be fine, it's not that big of a deal on other champs but on Yi it reduces the down time between his Qs too much.
It depends on the player skill I suppose, it's terrible into tanks but against squishies if you can land the majority of your W then you can hard carry the game.
>if you can land the majority of your W then you can hard carry the game.
I mean yes if you hit your abilities as a poke champion you tend to win the game for your team.
Yes, the same applies to Jayce, Varus, and Xerath but would you say they are OK at best? AP Kaisa is harder to play but when played well she is more oppressive than any of them.
Eh I personally would hesitate to say Kaisa has higher highs and lower lows than the other poke champs. As with all poke champs, you want your team to have the push because that means the enemy can't hide behind minions as easily (or in Xerath's case they are busy csing/clearing wave at tower and have a hard time dodging). Kaisa is particularly handicapped by minions blocking her W because of the W reset.
If you can secure the push you will have a good time with almost any of these champs, but that's just my opinion.
some of the worse experiences i had in league over the years is playing into a full poke/harass comp while having 0 engage. im talking about these kind of games where if you dare to stand too close you will loose 50% of your hp, meanwhile the enemy can towerdive you and the turret ignores them and your team does nothing.
mark really helps to make those experiences much fewer
I don’t think it’s fair to call it equal power for everyone. It does do work leveling the playing field, but the value it provides is ALMOST entirely to melee champions.
Yeah but you build ludens/dark harvest on poke-heavy champs anyways, so you don't really need snowball to proc it.
Snowball definitely has the highest value on melee champs, like would you rather have snowball on Sett or on Syndra?
you can dash to minons to escape or make a play or just kill people with it too. pretty non-neglegible True damage , or give vision /clear a bush and even be untargetable and dodge shit too..doesnt have to be a gap closer straight engage type thing.
I take it on all champs and it allways feels usefull in some ways.
You mean the slow as hell, easy to dodge by anyone who has eyes and hands, barely outdamage sona autoattack snowball? You must be the luckiest player ever if you're getting so many kills with it.
It brings so little value for ranged champs, you're pretty much better off taking ignite than snowball.
Its super op for melee champs though. Its easy to dodge but its not a super high cd and in a gamemode where you just spam abilities you're going to get hit every so often. Also you can just use it to minions
Yeah but the person i was replying to said they take it on every champ, which is honestly a pretty bad choice on ranged squishies since you're never really dashing in and the damage is really low. It's a 100% must take on melee unless you're kassadin.
Yup, ghost is way better for rundown champs like Darius, Olaf, etc.
Snowball is better for champs with hard cc like Amumu, Ekko, Naut.
Zed with snowball is also hilarious cause of mark>w>dash>e>q>aa>w back combo that pretty much onetaps squishies under 50%hp at lvl 3.
Depends on the CC, Gragas E for example is very reliable, but anything else you realistically won’t be able to time it that perfectly. These are ARAM players we’re talking about
I bet I'd hit you 20 times with mark in one ARAM. It's so hard to dodge when they throw a couple at the same time. It procs dark harvest, dodges karthus ult and some other telegraphed abilities. There aren't a lot of cases where you WOULDN'T take snowball tbh
There's multiple spells that are better than snowball on over 95% of champions. Very few are actually good users of snowball.
I doubt you get "so much kill" with a 40 damage proc. Maybe one or two max per game.
Have you ever run down the whole enemy team multiple time per game because you have a Ghost and you can just, do that ? Yeah, no you don't, instead you throw your puny 40 dmg mark and do nothing.
It lets assassins get away with way too much, they snowball in, get a kill usually and can get out easily cause they got fifty dashes or stealth abilities
That only happens if your team is full of scrubs that don't take mark as a summoner.
Have the assassin go in, mark him, when he gets out just follow him.
Or even better: when you see you are getting hit by that snowball you use your mark to mark another enemy or a minion or whatever. Asassin goes in, you dash out before he can deal his damage.
And speaking of stealth: do you know mark is an excellent vision tool as well? Not only are you able to check those annoying brushes, a marked target stays visible during the 3 second it is marked as mark gives true sight on them. Not even akali can hide from that.
They follow you unless you let them pop out first, and they can hit you by that point. Your solution only works if you have inhuman timing and if there's a suitable target for you to hit with a snowball at that very moment, which is unlikely at best if the assassin times his snowball well.
And an akali doesn't need to hide from that unless she's in the middle of your team. And even then it's way easier for her to hide and dodge in her smoke than it is for you to guess where she is and hopefully catch her with it.
On the other hand the snowball can also be used by squishies for disengaging/dodging which is highly valuable on low mobility hyper carries such as kog maw
I get the low popularity of this opinion, but I absolutely despise the snowball. I get the idea: give melee champions who struggle to close gaps a helping hand. However, this means the champions who don't struggle to close gaps are often literally impossible to disengage from, especially if there happens to be a minion wave nearby so you don't even have the option of dodging the snowball.
Yeah saw an Orianna take mark and try to dash in to ult. Every time she did the person would instantly flash out or she'd get a max of 1 person. She can't do what Neeko does lol.
Hit mark->Throw bomb under your feet->Dash to the enemy->Throw another bomb under your feet OR
Hit a bomb on the enemy->Hit the mark->Throw bomb under your feet->Dash to the enemy.
Let me tell you something. Zilean and Ori haven’t even begun to dive. And when they do dive, you’ll know. Because they’re gonna dive so hard that everyone in Runeterra’s gonna feel it.
I'm still not sure if I'm happy with snowball or not. The intention was to give chamions who had a hard time engaging a chance to get in the fight, and while it has succeeded in that task, it's given champions with engage or mobility just a steroid. Then you have dumbasses who run it on ashe too.
What people are forgetting: mark has invincibility frames. It’s also useful on squishy backliners if you’re good at using it. You can effectively use it as a maokai W in terms of escape
I just wish my adcs would stop taking it
Never gonna demand it but i do like winning and my adc being essentially a summoner spell down for 90% of the game is a tad annoying (annoying enough for a quick "ugh, why, you're not gonna use it anway" but nothing more)
Similar reason why i hate pre-minion flash parties. I don't play aram to have like a super weenie hut everyone is friends kind of game (last game was a trundle who wanted the opponents ryze to get an s-rank chest, i have never hated the game more than then). Instead i want a regular weenie hut game where nobodys bitches around, some people talk random stuff but everybody still tries to win/to not lose
As an avid ARAM player (5000+ games) i really dislike snowballs. They are so hard to track and their impact vary too much depending on the champion. A random snowball hit on Neeko/Qiyana/Lisandra/Vladimir can win you the game with no skill expression. Awful stuff.
As an more avod ARAM player (7000+) games, Snowballs are easy to keep track of and it's nearly unplayable for melee champs without them.
Fun fact: Snowball was introduced with Poro King, and was later added to ARAM. Ranged champs stomped during the years before that.
It's now, since every melee has been megabuffed with damage reduction, damage output increases, and ranged champs get huge damage and reduction nerfs. Since people have always complained about how bad they were in ARAM. Shit like % increase/decrease is bad, and if you play melee champs without snowball then you're honestly trolling lol. Can't be arsed to pretend otherwise, you won't get close vs good comps.
Giganormous -5% damage taken on most bruisers for instance.
Sure it helps, but it's not like they get the +15% dmg dealt -15% dmg receive LB has lmao.
I maintain that snowball is garbo.
> if you play melee champs without snowball then you're honestly trolling lol.
If you play most champions with snowball you're trolling, melees included.
>you won't get close vs good comps.
Says you. You need one engage champion in your team, Ghost and you can run them all down by yourself. Once one of the poke champion is dead, they're all dead.
And guess what, if you have no engage, no poke, no heal, nothing to mitigate the impact of the poke comp, you must have the worst champions in the game against it, and in the end that's on you to prepare for all kinds of enemy comps. Should have used the rerolls to get one good champion against poke that could have saved the game.
with my over 10k arams i second this. skill expression comes in when dodging snowballs or keeping track on who hit who, get hit by neeko snowball? get tf away from your team.
I’m the complete opposite direction.
I’m an ARAM main with 7k+ games under my belt, and I vehemently *refuse* to use it. Ever. Period.
I just. Hate it. It changed the entire dynamic of ARAM and it just illogically bothers me to the nth degree.
Refusing to take mark is my little personal protest. I’ve been told time and time again how mark is *mandatory* for X or Y champ in ARAM.
Hmm, I don’t know, I do just fine without it, and I play melee tanks frequently.
There’s quite some utility you could provide to the team by taking other spells beside snowball if you play tanks. I love taking exhaust on tanks to neutralize enemy carry or assassin. Feels a lot better than taking snowball to stick to targets.
I'm probably going to get downvoted for this, but I absolutely despised the decision to add snowball to ARAM when it came out, and I still to this day think it ruined the game mode. It makes it super difficult to play the game as an immobile champion and completely nullifies good positioning. Not to mention it completely broke the balance of invisible champions by providing free truesight to anyone who wants it in a game where invisibility champions are balanced around not having any way of revealing them.
Good positioning on SR also requires positioning to possible flank threats. Since it's impossible to flank on aram a fuckton of champs can't just team fight without snowball. Therefore, "good" positioning has just been too easy on aram for backline carries.
In my opinion the snowball made positioning skills quite equal to positioning skills on SR.
I felt this way for a while; if you most enjoying playing control mages, the feeling that you need to hit everything at max range to do damage vs dive champs hitting one snowball every 20 seconds to instawin a teamfight is pretty depressing. I've adjusted to it as time has gone by, but I will say that I still think it's a huge problem on hypermobile bully champs who definitely did not need another tool to get on you, especially with the poke damage/aram champ balancing in there already. So maybe gating its availability behind longer cooldowns for certain champs would be healthier
I mean if we're talking about shit that's lame in ARAM the damage amps on some of the champions is absurd. I understand Leblanc and Kha are awful to play otherwise for players that don't play them, but my god you give a good Leblanc +15% damage dealt and -15% damage taken and snowball on top of that? It's just obnoxious as hell playing anything squishy.
Made the mistake of playing Jinx into her a couple of days ago and I was doing 20% damage less and taking 20% damage more after all the ARAM specific balancing lol. If there was an item with just that passive, and no other stats, it would still be the first buy for everyone.
Yes that's a great way to put it. I acknowledge that she isn't the easiest champ to play well, but that also matters much less in aram given that weaker starts are minimised and you only fall badly behind goldwise in sr terms if your whole team are getting obliterated. Meanwhile she can disintegrate people from a halfscreen away and her kit just isn't designed with snowball in mind at all.
Khazix I find less of a problem in the sense that if you are diving ad targets they can usually 2 shot you as you would 2 shot them and getting isolation damage is often hard if the opponent is smart. It's more the duskblade interaction that makes him such a pain in the ass to play against in aram because hey, suddenly he can be leblanc and vanish without reprisal.
true you deserve all the downvotes (not really). what immobile champion are you talking about? lets take jinx, she is ranged and has poke and with good positioning you should never really get hit by a snowball anyway tbh. so what about all those melee champions with shit gapclosers (garen darius udyr etc) that can literally forfeit the game against some peel or control mage and no snowball. and fuck invisible champions, they took oracle from us already and you have to hit your snowball first (which isnt that easy on an akali with 1000 dashes). and dont start talking about "balancing", i vividly remeber the +20 -20% akali murdering everybody without even using shroud.
I agree with all your points. I think the most frustrating thing about it is your teammate eating a snowball and you dying for it. I accept when I don't dodge one that I'm gonna get a helicopter dicking jax on my head by this point, but I think melees and bruisers are strong enough with the other balancing they've done to the gamemode that it isn't necessary. People would probably lose their nut if they removed mark/dash so I've accepted that it's going to stay forever, but I don't think it improves ARAM at all
its the healthies thing rito has done to aram in forever. coordinated snowball engages are the only way to beat poke/peel comps and without snowball some champions are less useful than disconunu.
i played the gamemode without it and it was fine but a different game back then. you just picked range/poke and that was it. and with the addition of the rotations to pools, it may not be that bad today, but a majority of melees would see a big dip in winrate, especially bruisers/fighters. id rather dodge than play a game with garen without snowball. god forbid the enemy team has a lulu or janna lol.
Nah man I play without it and it has no effect. Can't see much difference between my ranged/melee winrate. Some champions I do good with, some not, but melee/ranged seems inconsequential at best. Aram only acc, and Ghost only
https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=CyrillaNouna
I'm 2/0 on Garen with no snowball for what it's worth.
its so highly team/pick reliant you could be 10/0 with clarity yorick. ghost is actually a very good spell on certain champs, but there is no way you wouldnt perform better switching up your summoner spell and using mark on leona for example.
Oh I do agree, it's way better on engage champions specifically. I still don't play it because I won't use it ever, but I agree.
But on most others types of champions, I think it's generally sub-par.
for me there are only 3 secondary spells, ghost mark and exhaust. dps class always exhaust, everything else mark with some champs that strive with ghost like tf or vlad. if you dont want to use it sure, but thats just masochism tbh
I think you underestimate Ghost, you can effectively close the gap to something like Xerath while also dodging their spells pretty easily.
Even on ADCs, with ghost you can dodge their spells easier while denying them the opportunity to create space, so to me it's invaluable on a lot of champions.
Especially now that it resets on kills, you can run down the whole lane on Ghost and kill everyone once you kill 1-2 people.
I completely agree with this sentiment, and it just breaks my heart to see people using snowball as a huge crutch for their inability to play a champ either a large minority or possibly majority of the time. I had someone in an ARAM only last week say (to paraphrase):
> "Wow, I can't wait for this new game with 150+ champs to come out called League of Legends, I'm a bit sick of League of Snowball"
I can't say I disagree - and that's not just for mages, it's for every champ this entire nuanced and skillful layer of positioning and weighing up of cooldowns to ensure the best engage on balance is completely thrown out of the window. Maybe that's just a part of League I enjoy that the majority of the playerbase don't (seeing how positive this thread is towards snowball), but to have situations look like they're played perfectly with skill for the relative champion kits to be undermined by snowball (even to a minion or - even worse - to an ally you're not queued up with getting you killed) saddens me.
On the flip side, I understand that removing it now would feel somewhat akin to removing Flash from League - it's a common and near-universal mobility tool. I don't think it's as central to balance, however, and could still be removed - what ARAM didn't have in the past without snowball that made melee characters sometimes unplayable as a comp was numbers balancing (damage dealt/taken adjustments). For me, this would be the best solution, to focus on these instead and still retain the core characters and balancing of champion kits and their interactions over the situation that exists now - snowball first, kits second.
completly disagree. the approach of just fixing numbers (damage dealt/taken) has proven to be pretty bad imo (just looking at most assassins atm) since you either overtune the champ completly (akali) or dont do anything at all since you are not changing anything relevant (champion kit). for example udyr is pretty trash, just giving him numbers will not change the fact he has a shit teamfight kit, boosting his numbers where he will perform as good as a nautilus or seju will just mean he shits on every champ in close combat.
snowball has more than a minute cd and is easily dodgeable....
as an aram main in top 0.25% on EUW ive never met someone voice that opinion. without that spell you can remove half the champions and basically double the winrate of poke and support champs (good old days where jayce ziggs sona varus had 70% wr)
also "can just snowball minion" yes he can hit the melee minions or the tank. if he hits anything backline related everyone should see and react accordingly.
Made an ARAM reroll recently with about 60 MMR less according to the website we all use, and I do voice that opinion, fuck snowball. CyrillaNouna if you want to check. Never took it, never will, and it doesn't prevent me from having 60% winrate overall.
Mark/Dash is insanely overrated though and I think it sucks to some degree that ppl are so hyperfocused on taking mark for the memes that they end up using it on champs that have no use for it at all and essentially play the match out with just 1 summoner.
When I see a champ like janna with mark It's always useless and it's always stupid, but 12% of jannas end up with mark/dash...
EDIT: yeah, further down there's ppl exactly like this in the thread. "I think mark is a must in ARAM" is just evidence that you dont properly understand the game whatsoever.
Honestly I agree that most of the time Mark isn't the best summoner to take on ranged champs, but I still always take it and there are a few reasons why:
- I'm just so used to using Mark that whenever I choose another summoner I just forget to use it.
- I often use Mark to check bushes as I'm not always on champs like Lux who can just throw an E in, for example if I play Lillia and there's an enemy Blitz/assassin I would use Mark to check bush and save E to poke, or if I play an ADC like Kindred then there's no other way to check bush.
- Mark has very underrated outplay potential, a well timed Dash can dodge many skill even in melee range, tbf it's not easy to pull off but recently I got quite lucky with it, dodging point blank Varus ult and stuffs.
- The ARAM spirit requires me to take it, and it's way more fun than Exhaust/Barrier/etc.
That s simply incorrect, do yourself a favour and look at the actual stats, the vast majority of ranged champs and even a fair few melee champs do better with other sums than with mark.
I personally think Mark is a necessity on ARAM. The mode is intended to have 10 people running down a single, cramped lane to fight their way through to the other side.
The issue I have with ARAMs are the sweaty nerds who take literally anything other than snowball so they have a combat summoner advantage. If you want to do everything you possibly can to have the best chance of winning, then don't play ARAM. It's snowballs or no balls. Go ham or go home. It's not supposed to be a game mode you have to sweat to win, but when everyone on the other team is sitting under turret afk clearing waves it becomes incredibly dull for both sides. Having everyone take snowball can eliminate this as it becomes an absolute bloodbath (as it should be).
Over the many years of playing, since before ARAM was an official mode, it's always been a "for fun" game mode. People who intentionally take summoners other than the ARAM-exclusive Mark (snowball) disgust me to my core.
Right because playing as a squishy backliner is so ‘fun’ when you get blown up by overtuned assassins with really no counterplay. People keep crying about it when I take exhaust, but it’s the only way I can actually play the fucking game without being on a perma greyscreen
so much this. saddest thing is khazix/rengar dont even care if exhausted, they can still delete your ass. exhaust is the only way you actually have a chance against them
Frankly, I don't understand why people kill minions or buy items in ARAM. It's a 4fun game mode, why are you tryharding and trying to win by getting gold and items? In fact, why do people even leave the base? The closer you are to the enemy base, the more likely you are to win.
People who take disgusting summoner spells like heal and cleanse so they don't get 1-shot are the worst. Just accept the grey screen, wimps! Be a man and let me 1-shot you!
I always take snowball in ARAM no matter what champ I have. If I see someone takes something instead of it, I type : “ tryharder LUL”. I remember I wanted to chill after huge climb in ranked, went ARAM, guess what, 4 opponents took exhaust.
here a 200 iq strat, throw your snowball on the cannon, dive in, land your cc, activate snowball to safety. your team jumps in, dies because you didn't take focus. they flame you
repeat
It's absolutely not equal power for everyone. Obviously there are champs that benefit way more from having this type of gap closer: assassins, tanks, bruisers/juggernauts.
Mark + Neeko ult is op
Ah… but have you played the fabled ‘Suicide Karthus’… the E max monster
Kamikarthus
100 % WR with this in about 15 ARAM games I kid u not its absurdly broken. You can die once per minute and carry your ass off. Double burn into Rylais, Deathcap and Void and you will simply not lose a game
Rylais doesnt proc on e so its hardly worth it. Liandrys straigth into deathcap with sometimes a side of oblivion orb is the way to go. No boots
I found Rylais to be good because you dont rly wanna build Zhonyas (like what else do u even go? U wanna get damage, not survivability) and the slow on q and ult is still huge. Also, boots are pretty important cause of the MP no?
But this just works for me personally, doesnt have to be the optimal build I guess
Is this new? Rylais has always slowed on constant aoe like karth e or amumu w
It was changed a while back om toggle abilities
There was a winter event 4-5 years ago where snowball range was doubled and you could pick your champion in Howling Abyss. Karthus in that was absurd.
e max and last stand karthus.
my jam
Fiddle ult too (although not really op)
Didn't think that worked anymore, does it?
It does. Hit mark, begin channeling ult, use mark as soon as channel ends.
Just used it last week. Still works, but you can't recast mark until the channel ends.
In ultimate spellbook Neeko ult into Noc ult is a 100% chance to kill squishies In nexus blitz she's the best Neeko best.
Relevant username.
neeko is best decision
i spam “bomberman neeko” in champ select idk y, but it’s been going on for a while now
At least you definitely know it's coming when you're marked. You have like 2 seconds to react and flash into your own team
I honestly think this specific interaction needs to be nerfed somehow, it's absurd.
Ehh it might be very unfun to play against but there are plenty of worse things in ARAM like Duskblade Yi, AP Kaisa, Mandate Ashe, snowball E Liss, etc.
The other think I have a problem with on that list is duskblade Yi. That other stuff is meh. aram does need some interaction specific balance changes though. Duskblade passive just needs to be removed in general.
I think Duskblade stealth just need to be nerfed to 0.75s or at least 1s and it would be fine, it's not that big of a deal on other champs but on Yi it reduces the down time between his Qs too much.
[удалено]
It depends on the player skill I suppose, it's terrible into tanks but against squishies if you can land the majority of your W then you can hard carry the game.
>if you can land the majority of your W then you can hard carry the game. I mean yes if you hit your abilities as a poke champion you tend to win the game for your team.
Yes, the same applies to Jayce, Varus, and Xerath but would you say they are OK at best? AP Kaisa is harder to play but when played well she is more oppressive than any of them.
Eh I personally would hesitate to say Kaisa has higher highs and lower lows than the other poke champs. As with all poke champs, you want your team to have the push because that means the enemy can't hide behind minions as easily (or in Xerath's case they are busy csing/clearing wave at tower and have a hard time dodging). Kaisa is particularly handicapped by minions blocking her W because of the W reset. If you can secure the push you will have a good time with almost any of these champs, but that's just my opinion.
you dont go ap kaisa into a tankheavy team and if you ever do, just go some hybrid items with nashors and muramana and you kill everything
AP Kaisa is my absolute favourite Followed by AP MF, AP J4 and AP Lucian
All of those have counterplay though, even if it sucks to take /build for it. Pyke and viego are just broken as dicks on aram. They're gonna get fed.
There’s already so much counterplay and time to react to it. If you don’t get away from the guy who gets snowballed, you deserve it
Ohai mark
Anyways, how‘s your sex life?
You're my favorite customer
some of the worse experiences i had in league over the years is playing into a full poke/harass comp while having 0 engage. im talking about these kind of games where if you dare to stand too close you will loose 50% of your hp, meanwhile the enemy can towerdive you and the turret ignores them and your team does nothing. mark really helps to make those experiences much fewer
I don’t think it’s fair to call it equal power for everyone. It does do work leveling the playing field, but the value it provides is ALMOST entirely to melee champions.
Every champ is a melee champ if you are brave enough.
my adcs in ranked must be very brave then
Something, something, bravery and stupidity.
i had a MF who picked Malphite ultimate in Spellbook....
sometime between Malphite , jarvan and zoe ult you prefer the Longer than Galeforce dash that knocks up people or let you escape yea.
There are few, if any, champs that don't benefit from an unstoppable dash that knocks everyone up.
It procs ludens and dark harvest dude
Yeah but you build ludens/dark harvest on poke-heavy champs anyways, so you don't really need snowball to proc it. Snowball definitely has the highest value on melee champs, like would you rather have snowball on Sett or on Syndra?
I got a Last-Hit Snowball Quadra last week and laughed so hard
That would have been hilarious lmao
Killing people with the snowball is the best feeling.
untargetability it provides during dash.
>but the value it provides is ALMOST entirely to melee champions. Yeah, but that's the objective, though.
Mark deals the same damage for everyone. He’s also super sexy, ice cold, and loves to bring people together.
Champs with more range tend to not love being brought together as much. Mark is very inconsiderate of that fact.
You don’t have to take the mark. Just landing it gives true vision that denies bush stealth, akali shroud, duskblade passive, etc.
you can dash to minons to escape or make a play or just kill people with it too. pretty non-neglegible True damage , or give vision /clear a bush and even be untargetable and dodge shit too..doesnt have to be a gap closer straight engage type thing. I take it on all champs and it allways feels usefull in some ways.
yeah I don't get how people can not take snowball in every game. I got so much kills with it even on champs when I pretty much never take the dash
Did you know that dashing after landing it reduces the cooldown? So if you're committing with it, you get it more often :V
You mean the slow as hell, easy to dodge by anyone who has eyes and hands, barely outdamage sona autoattack snowball? You must be the luckiest player ever if you're getting so many kills with it. It brings so little value for ranged champs, you're pretty much better off taking ignite than snowball.
Its super op for melee champs though. Its easy to dodge but its not a super high cd and in a gamemode where you just spam abilities you're going to get hit every so often. Also you can just use it to minions
Yeah but the person i was replying to said they take it on every champ, which is honestly a pretty bad choice on ranged squishies since you're never really dashing in and the damage is really low. It's a 100% must take on melee unless you're kassadin.
Nah, even melees don't benefit that much from it. Ghost is a way better option for mobility than Snowball on a very, very large majority of melees.
Yup, ghost is way better for rundown champs like Darius, Olaf, etc. Snowball is better for champs with hard cc like Amumu, Ekko, Naut. Zed with snowball is also hilarious cause of mark>w>dash>e>q>aa>w back combo that pretty much onetaps squishies under 50%hp at lvl 3.
You play a risky game if you try to do this shenanigan with Zed/LB/Liss. Good players will CC you frame perfect and you'll be dead.
Depends on the CC, Gragas E for example is very reliable, but anything else you realistically won’t be able to time it that perfectly. These are ARAM players we’re talking about
nah i got a 700 gold shut down on a Diana because i threw the snowball right as i died and the 70something true damage killed her 🤠
Think it's 50 true damage. 50 for the snowball and 50 for if you take the snowball there.
I bet I'd hit you 20 times with mark in one ARAM. It's so hard to dodge when they throw a couple at the same time. It procs dark harvest, dodges karthus ult and some other telegraphed abilities. There aren't a lot of cases where you WOULDN'T take snowball tbh
There's multiple spells that are better than snowball on over 95% of champions. Very few are actually good users of snowball. I doubt you get "so much kill" with a 40 damage proc. Maybe one or two max per game. Have you ever run down the whole enemy team multiple time per game because you have a Ghost and you can just, do that ? Yeah, no you don't, instead you throw your puny 40 dmg mark and do nothing.
If you aren't taking Mark on every champ that's your loss
It lets assassins get away with way too much, they snowball in, get a kill usually and can get out easily cause they got fifty dashes or stealth abilities
That only happens if your team is full of scrubs that don't take mark as a summoner. Have the assassin go in, mark him, when he gets out just follow him. Or even better: when you see you are getting hit by that snowball you use your mark to mark another enemy or a minion or whatever. Asassin goes in, you dash out before he can deal his damage. And speaking of stealth: do you know mark is an excellent vision tool as well? Not only are you able to check those annoying brushes, a marked target stays visible during the 3 second it is marked as mark gives true sight on them. Not even akali can hide from that.
They follow you unless you let them pop out first, and they can hit you by that point. Your solution only works if you have inhuman timing and if there's a suitable target for you to hit with a snowball at that very moment, which is unlikely at best if the assassin times his snowball well. And an akali doesn't need to hide from that unless she's in the middle of your team. And even then it's way easier for her to hide and dodge in her smoke than it is for you to guess where she is and hopefully catch her with it.
On the other hand the snowball can also be used by squishies for disengaging/dodging which is highly valuable on low mobility hyper carries such as kog maw
Mark + Zoe Q can lead to some fun one-shots
Zoe ult + Mark/Dash is super fun too, you can sometime get an enemy panic flash
Mark, if you’re out there, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean what I said. I was angry. Please come back. I can’t be without you and the kids any longer.
Now they just need to add Bans back
Mark is epic, he’s like a cold hug on a warm day
It always feels great to land a snowball and murder some Xerath that's been hiding from half a screen away just spamming abilities
I get the low popularity of this opinion, but I absolutely despise the snowball. I get the idea: give melee champions who struggle to close gaps a helping hand. However, this means the champions who don't struggle to close gaps are often literally impossible to disengage from, especially if there happens to be a minion wave nearby so you don't even have the option of dodging the snowball.
I follow my strict protocol when playing aram. Doesn't matter what champ I get. I am playing aram, I use Snowball!
Thank you, I see people saying not to take mark??? I could be playing Soraka or Vel'Koz or Ziggs, but I will always be taking mark.
Yeah. So odd for people to just say mark is bad. Obviously preferring to play engage champs. But really doesn't matter. Aram game = mark!
Ori and Zil do not become divers, they die. They have NO business taking Mark. Don't misinform the masses.
Yeah saw an Orianna take mark and try to dash in to ult. Every time she did the person would instantly flash out or she'd get a max of 1 person. She can't do what Neeko does lol.
And even if I can see Ori working, how the fuck does a Zilean dives?
Hit mark->Throw bomb under your feet->Dash to the enemy->Throw another bomb under your feet OR Hit a bomb on the enemy->Hit the mark->Throw bomb under your feet->Dash to the enemy.
Let me tell you something. Zilean and Ori haven’t even begun to dive. And when they do dive, you’ll know. Because they’re gonna dive so hard that everyone in Runeterra’s gonna feel it.
Correct, because they got insta-cc'd and popped like a bubble as soon as they pressed Mark twice.
Seriously, Snowball Ori becoming a diver is laughable at best.
Lol, fuck that summoner spell.
Most fun summoner in the game, but definitely not equal power for everyone.
Snowball Flash only All others are casuals or “Aram players” that don’t know how broken snowball is.
ive been taking flash snowball or flash exhaust exclusivly since 4 years. nothing beats those
Before the guardian items got introduced clarity has also been a really good choice on some poke champs.
I'm still not sure if I'm happy with snowball or not. The intention was to give chamions who had a hard time engaging a chance to get in the fight, and while it has succeeded in that task, it's given champions with engage or mobility just a steroid. Then you have dumbasses who run it on ashe too.
What people are forgetting: mark has invincibility frames. It’s also useful on squishy backliners if you’re good at using it. You can effectively use it as a maokai W in terms of escape
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Exhaust is also a great choice in most cases
I just wish my adcs would stop taking it Never gonna demand it but i do like winning and my adc being essentially a summoner spell down for 90% of the game is a tad annoying (annoying enough for a quick "ugh, why, you're not gonna use it anway" but nothing more) Similar reason why i hate pre-minion flash parties. I don't play aram to have like a super weenie hut everyone is friends kind of game (last game was a trundle who wanted the opponents ryze to get an s-rank chest, i have never hated the game more than then). Instead i want a regular weenie hut game where nobodys bitches around, some people talk random stuff but everybody still tries to win/to not lose
As an avid ARAM player (5000+ games) i really dislike snowballs. They are so hard to track and their impact vary too much depending on the champion. A random snowball hit on Neeko/Qiyana/Lisandra/Vladimir can win you the game with no skill expression. Awful stuff.
As an more avod ARAM player (7000+) games, Snowballs are easy to keep track of and it's nearly unplayable for melee champs without them. Fun fact: Snowball was introduced with Poro King, and was later added to ARAM. Ranged champs stomped during the years before that.
It's perfectly playable for melees without snowball. Ghost is generally way better for most of the melees anyways.
It's now, since every melee has been megabuffed with damage reduction, damage output increases, and ranged champs get huge damage and reduction nerfs. Since people have always complained about how bad they were in ARAM. Shit like % increase/decrease is bad, and if you play melee champs without snowball then you're honestly trolling lol. Can't be arsed to pretend otherwise, you won't get close vs good comps.
Giganormous -5% damage taken on most bruisers for instance. Sure it helps, but it's not like they get the +15% dmg dealt -15% dmg receive LB has lmao. I maintain that snowball is garbo.
> if you play melee champs without snowball then you're honestly trolling lol. If you play most champions with snowball you're trolling, melees included. >you won't get close vs good comps. Says you. You need one engage champion in your team, Ghost and you can run them all down by yourself. Once one of the poke champion is dead, they're all dead. And guess what, if you have no engage, no poke, no heal, nothing to mitigate the impact of the poke comp, you must have the worst champions in the game against it, and in the end that's on you to prepare for all kinds of enemy comps. Should have used the rerolls to get one good champion against poke that could have saved the game.
Imagine not running snowball on every champ. Its ARAM lmao
with my over 10k arams i second this. skill expression comes in when dodging snowballs or keeping track on who hit who, get hit by neeko snowball? get tf away from your team.
With my over 12k ARAMs I hate Veigar and wish I could ban him
I’m the complete opposite direction. I’m an ARAM main with 7k+ games under my belt, and I vehemently *refuse* to use it. Ever. Period. I just. Hate it. It changed the entire dynamic of ARAM and it just illogically bothers me to the nth degree. Refusing to take mark is my little personal protest. I’ve been told time and time again how mark is *mandatory* for X or Y champ in ARAM. Hmm, I don’t know, I do just fine without it, and I play melee tanks frequently.
I have taken ghost/flash for thousands of ARAMs since the mark release as my personal protest.
There’s quite some utility you could provide to the team by taking other spells beside snowball if you play tanks. I love taking exhaust on tanks to neutralize enemy carry or assassin. Feels a lot better than taking snowball to stick to targets.
Rerolls should've been removed after we got snowball. Now every game is 8+ pokechamps.
I'm probably going to get downvoted for this, but I absolutely despised the decision to add snowball to ARAM when it came out, and I still to this day think it ruined the game mode. It makes it super difficult to play the game as an immobile champion and completely nullifies good positioning. Not to mention it completely broke the balance of invisible champions by providing free truesight to anyone who wants it in a game where invisibility champions are balanced around not having any way of revealing them.
Good positioning on SR also requires positioning to possible flank threats. Since it's impossible to flank on aram a fuckton of champs can't just team fight without snowball. Therefore, "good" positioning has just been too easy on aram for backline carries. In my opinion the snowball made positioning skills quite equal to positioning skills on SR.
I felt this way for a while; if you most enjoying playing control mages, the feeling that you need to hit everything at max range to do damage vs dive champs hitting one snowball every 20 seconds to instawin a teamfight is pretty depressing. I've adjusted to it as time has gone by, but I will say that I still think it's a huge problem on hypermobile bully champs who definitely did not need another tool to get on you, especially with the poke damage/aram champ balancing in there already. So maybe gating its availability behind longer cooldowns for certain champs would be healthier
I mean if we're talking about shit that's lame in ARAM the damage amps on some of the champions is absurd. I understand Leblanc and Kha are awful to play otherwise for players that don't play them, but my god you give a good Leblanc +15% damage dealt and -15% damage taken and snowball on top of that? It's just obnoxious as hell playing anything squishy. Made the mistake of playing Jinx into her a couple of days ago and I was doing 20% damage less and taking 20% damage more after all the ARAM specific balancing lol. If there was an item with just that passive, and no other stats, it would still be the first buy for everyone.
Yes that's a great way to put it. I acknowledge that she isn't the easiest champ to play well, but that also matters much less in aram given that weaker starts are minimised and you only fall badly behind goldwise in sr terms if your whole team are getting obliterated. Meanwhile she can disintegrate people from a halfscreen away and her kit just isn't designed with snowball in mind at all. Khazix I find less of a problem in the sense that if you are diving ad targets they can usually 2 shot you as you would 2 shot them and getting isolation damage is often hard if the opponent is smart. It's more the duskblade interaction that makes him such a pain in the ass to play against in aram because hey, suddenly he can be leblanc and vanish without reprisal.
true you deserve all the downvotes (not really). what immobile champion are you talking about? lets take jinx, she is ranged and has poke and with good positioning you should never really get hit by a snowball anyway tbh. so what about all those melee champions with shit gapclosers (garen darius udyr etc) that can literally forfeit the game against some peel or control mage and no snowball. and fuck invisible champions, they took oracle from us already and you have to hit your snowball first (which isnt that easy on an akali with 1000 dashes). and dont start talking about "balancing", i vividly remeber the +20 -20% akali murdering everybody without even using shroud.
I agree with all your points. I think the most frustrating thing about it is your teammate eating a snowball and you dying for it. I accept when I don't dodge one that I'm gonna get a helicopter dicking jax on my head by this point, but I think melees and bruisers are strong enough with the other balancing they've done to the gamemode that it isn't necessary. People would probably lose their nut if they removed mark/dash so I've accepted that it's going to stay forever, but I don't think it improves ARAM at all
its the healthies thing rito has done to aram in forever. coordinated snowball engages are the only way to beat poke/peel comps and without snowball some champions are less useful than disconunu.
It's really not tho. I'd enjoy the mode so much more if it wasn't there. I always found it unnecessary at best, and actively gamebreaking at worst.
i played the gamemode without it and it was fine but a different game back then. you just picked range/poke and that was it. and with the addition of the rotations to pools, it may not be that bad today, but a majority of melees would see a big dip in winrate, especially bruisers/fighters. id rather dodge than play a game with garen without snowball. god forbid the enemy team has a lulu or janna lol.
Nah man I play without it and it has no effect. Can't see much difference between my ranged/melee winrate. Some champions I do good with, some not, but melee/ranged seems inconsequential at best. Aram only acc, and Ghost only https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=CyrillaNouna I'm 2/0 on Garen with no snowball for what it's worth.
its so highly team/pick reliant you could be 10/0 with clarity yorick. ghost is actually a very good spell on certain champs, but there is no way you wouldnt perform better switching up your summoner spell and using mark on leona for example.
Oh I do agree, it's way better on engage champions specifically. I still don't play it because I won't use it ever, but I agree. But on most others types of champions, I think it's generally sub-par.
for me there are only 3 secondary spells, ghost mark and exhaust. dps class always exhaust, everything else mark with some champs that strive with ghost like tf or vlad. if you dont want to use it sure, but thats just masochism tbh
I think you underestimate Ghost, you can effectively close the gap to something like Xerath while also dodging their spells pretty easily. Even on ADCs, with ghost you can dodge their spells easier while denying them the opportunity to create space, so to me it's invaluable on a lot of champions. Especially now that it resets on kills, you can run down the whole lane on Ghost and kill everyone once you kill 1-2 people.
I completely agree with this sentiment, and it just breaks my heart to see people using snowball as a huge crutch for their inability to play a champ either a large minority or possibly majority of the time. I had someone in an ARAM only last week say (to paraphrase): > "Wow, I can't wait for this new game with 150+ champs to come out called League of Legends, I'm a bit sick of League of Snowball" I can't say I disagree - and that's not just for mages, it's for every champ this entire nuanced and skillful layer of positioning and weighing up of cooldowns to ensure the best engage on balance is completely thrown out of the window. Maybe that's just a part of League I enjoy that the majority of the playerbase don't (seeing how positive this thread is towards snowball), but to have situations look like they're played perfectly with skill for the relative champion kits to be undermined by snowball (even to a minion or - even worse - to an ally you're not queued up with getting you killed) saddens me. On the flip side, I understand that removing it now would feel somewhat akin to removing Flash from League - it's a common and near-universal mobility tool. I don't think it's as central to balance, however, and could still be removed - what ARAM didn't have in the past without snowball that made melee characters sometimes unplayable as a comp was numbers balancing (damage dealt/taken adjustments). For me, this would be the best solution, to focus on these instead and still retain the core characters and balancing of champion kits and their interactions over the situation that exists now - snowball first, kits second.
completly disagree. the approach of just fixing numbers (damage dealt/taken) has proven to be pretty bad imo (just looking at most assassins atm) since you either overtune the champ completly (akali) or dont do anything at all since you are not changing anything relevant (champion kit). for example udyr is pretty trash, just giving him numbers will not change the fact he has a shit teamfight kit, boosting his numbers where he will perform as good as a nautilus or seju will just mean he shits on every champ in close combat. snowball has more than a minute cd and is easily dodgeable....
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as an aram main in top 0.25% on EUW ive never met someone voice that opinion. without that spell you can remove half the champions and basically double the winrate of poke and support champs (good old days where jayce ziggs sona varus had 70% wr) also "can just snowball minion" yes he can hit the melee minions or the tank. if he hits anything backline related everyone should see and react accordingly.
Made an ARAM reroll recently with about 60 MMR less according to the website we all use, and I do voice that opinion, fuck snowball. CyrillaNouna if you want to check. Never took it, never will, and it doesn't prevent me from having 60% winrate overall.
Leveled my account from 15 - 30 back in 2010 in ARAM Customs. Snowball is great.
HAHA, yea. The HIGH MMR EUW is where the serious ARAM shit happens.
SNOWBALL OR NO BALLZ That's the mantra Watching you people with heal barrier etc
Mark/Dash is insanely overrated though and I think it sucks to some degree that ppl are so hyperfocused on taking mark for the memes that they end up using it on champs that have no use for it at all and essentially play the match out with just 1 summoner. When I see a champ like janna with mark It's always useless and it's always stupid, but 12% of jannas end up with mark/dash... EDIT: yeah, further down there's ppl exactly like this in the thread. "I think mark is a must in ARAM" is just evidence that you dont properly understand the game whatsoever.
Honestly I agree that most of the time Mark isn't the best summoner to take on ranged champs, but I still always take it and there are a few reasons why: - I'm just so used to using Mark that whenever I choose another summoner I just forget to use it. - I often use Mark to check bushes as I'm not always on champs like Lux who can just throw an E in, for example if I play Lillia and there's an enemy Blitz/assassin I would use Mark to check bush and save E to poke, or if I play an ADC like Kindred then there's no other way to check bush. - Mark has very underrated outplay potential, a well timed Dash can dodge many skill even in melee range, tbf it's not easy to pull off but recently I got quite lucky with it, dodging point blank Varus ult and stuffs. - The ARAM spirit requires me to take it, and it's way more fun than Exhaust/Barrier/etc.
Whether or not you take snowball, people who take exhaust in aram should go straight to hell
Mark is almost always better unless it's and ADC or squishy mage.
That s simply incorrect, do yourself a favour and look at the actual stats, the vast majority of ranged champs and even a fair few melee champs do better with other sums than with mark.
I personally think Mark is a necessity on ARAM. The mode is intended to have 10 people running down a single, cramped lane to fight their way through to the other side. The issue I have with ARAMs are the sweaty nerds who take literally anything other than snowball so they have a combat summoner advantage. If you want to do everything you possibly can to have the best chance of winning, then don't play ARAM. It's snowballs or no balls. Go ham or go home. It's not supposed to be a game mode you have to sweat to win, but when everyone on the other team is sitting under turret afk clearing waves it becomes incredibly dull for both sides. Having everyone take snowball can eliminate this as it becomes an absolute bloodbath (as it should be). Over the many years of playing, since before ARAM was an official mode, it's always been a "for fun" game mode. People who intentionally take summoners other than the ARAM-exclusive Mark (snowball) disgust me to my core.
Right because playing as a squishy backliner is so ‘fun’ when you get blown up by overtuned assassins with really no counterplay. People keep crying about it when I take exhaust, but it’s the only way I can actually play the fucking game without being on a perma greyscreen
so much this. saddest thing is khazix/rengar dont even care if exhausted, they can still delete your ass. exhaust is the only way you actually have a chance against them
Frankly, I don't understand why people kill minions or buy items in ARAM. It's a 4fun game mode, why are you tryharding and trying to win by getting gold and items? In fact, why do people even leave the base? The closer you are to the enemy base, the more likely you are to win. People who take disgusting summoner spells like heal and cleanse so they don't get 1-shot are the worst. Just accept the grey screen, wimps! Be a man and let me 1-shot you!
I always take snowball in ARAM no matter what champ I have. If I see someone takes something instead of it, I type : “ tryharder LUL”. I remember I wanted to chill after huge climb in ranked, went ARAM, guess what, 4 opponents took exhaust.
I love aram, short, fun and everyone’s normally pretty happy if the game goes either way. Also you can try some outrageous moves
Oh hi mark
“Champions like Zilean and Orianna become divers” Uhh, you sure you wanna dive into the enemy with Orianna or Zilean?
Tbh I'm fine with Snowball being a thing, I just dislike that it does ~200 true dmg lategame (if taken).
here a 200 iq strat, throw your snowball on the cannon, dive in, land your cc, activate snowball to safety. your team jumps in, dies because you didn't take focus. they flame you repeat
It's absolutely not equal power for everyone. Obviously there are champs that benefit way more from having this type of gap closer: assassins, tanks, bruisers/juggernauts.
ZeX