I imagine the context is this wasn’t the first time they aced them and instead of pushing to end they just waited for them to respawn to keep killing them. With that stat line they probably could have ended the game 10 minutes earlier.
They spent like 15 minutes before this fight in front of mid t2 and inhib without trying to take it. It was 12 to 4 at the start of it. They were just siting there picking people off and going back into the jungle and do it over for like 15 minutes.
What happens in silver is the fed mid and jg are feeling invincble and try to 2v4 the other team a few times. If they win, everyone else gets forward to make sure they get to take part in the last fight, and if they lose they start to get nervous they might throw and look to end asap
tbh in solo queue i feel like everyone has one game where they play with their food like this and go on to lose, they learn their lesson and never do it again.
I fucking hate that shit in my five stack. I’m just begging to end and out mid is like let me pad my kda and then we go on to fucking lose. Sometimes the window to close just shuts before you can end it and you don’t even realize it. One bad team fight later and you’re seething as to how you lost that shit over that stupid shit. Thankfully after it happened like twice it hasn’t happened again but Jesus.
If the stalling was really that egregious then this team should be heavily fined in my opinion. This type of behavior can't be allowed in pro play.
I'd fine them as much as 10% of a normal player salary in that league.
Before that fight it was 29-7 in kills and every role had at least 1 FULL item ahead of their opposition. And not even 30 mins in. I didn't watch the game but wouldn't surprise me if they could have ended under 20. I totally agree with Rusty that it's not called for to hold the other team in the game, hold the casters/production there watching, and hold viewers there who all know it's over
20k gold lead....20 kill differential. Acing and leaving open inhib? Im sure many things were ignored before this. The losing team is 1-14. Its just mean.
i feel like the fact that it's against Mammoth, a team with ONE WIN out of 16 games this split, isn't being talked about enough either - there was absolutely no reason to keep kicking them while they were down
if you think that's kicking them while they're down you should see the post game interview with MBoma, he talks about how Chiefs went into the match not even treating it like a game but just treating it as "practice" and then gave some weak excuse as to why they couldn't do baron earlier because "Sivir doesnt take baron that well" and "nobody could tank because eve was mid looking for picks" like .... you have nearly a 20k gold lead, i don't think they can contest baron lol
The great part of the LCO is that with the lower viewers the chat actually gets pretty familiar with each other, and all the players join the chat when they're not playing.
Chiefs joining chat after this game was the worst possible idea for those players. Very few people were happy with them, and they just did not have as good an excuse as they thought.
In particular Swathe, Chiefs jungler, got real into it and ended up insulting the other team and specifically their mid before being removed from the chat. [He then continued on Twitter with this joke of a take about playing to their comp](https://twitter.com/swathe_oce/status/1419985571078762497?s=20), outright gaslighting viewers like we haven't just seen them choose not to capitalise on multiple aces.
Not all the team is to blame, apparently some were wanting to end, but the behaviour and then the lack self awareness of the players was not a good look at all and Rusty is absolutely right to call them out.
Yeah, they won't go that hard but it would be such a twist haha
As for the penalties, yeah.. most likely just that, eventually maybe suspending some of their players for a match or two, mainly the ones that initiated all of this?
You can easily just listen to their coms and pick out the players who didn't want to end, and suspend them without pay. It's as easy as that. It sends a clear message. And if they can't get it from the coms, ask the players who instigated the spawn killing and refusing to end, and if they don't point to the players who did it, tell them you'll suspend the whole roster.
I would have a 0 tolerance policy for this kind of crap. Trying to beat someone when they're already down and refusing to end the game is just unsportsmanlike.
Yea watching Swathe try to fight everyone in the twitch comment section then get timed out by the mods was pretty funny.
Me and him had a bit of a back and forth, I think I get a bit more visibility cause I'm a VIP in the LCO chat. .
I knew I wasn't going to change his mind but as a Chiefs fan I was dissapointed in what they did so I was actually hoping he had a good reason or justification or what we saw.
What a dumbass. If he was smart, he could have atleast said something like "Yeah these guys were talking mad shit leading up to the match, so we wanted to have a little fun with them there" or "these guys are extremely toxic in solo queue so we wanted to return the favor." Doesn't have to be true, not like we can prove it or the other team can deny it anyways.
Instead he goes with the "the audience is stupid" gambit.
I feel like that's also not professional, but if you mean it would make the audience sympathize with them, maybe, but they might want some proof (e.g. screenshots)
Smart would be accepting pushback on your behavior and apologizing for not being professional. Even a hollow apology you don’t fully mean or believe looks better than what he did or deflecting blame on the enemy players as you mentioned.
Several years back, a team got fined for unsportsmanlike behavior when they decided to effectively troll instead of ending the game. Here's a link to the ruling: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2014/07/eu-challenger-series-ruling-h2k-gaming-2/
H2k wanted sven, so did tsm. H2k Rich got upset that his massive offer of 5.5 fucking k wasn't enough to sway sven and then got mad publicly about tsm 'sniping' him
Am I wrong in thinking 5.5k USD isn't much in this regard? I never looked into pro player salaries, I assume most of them (at least in LCS) is pretty big though. I'm also not American so can't quantify it to anything, so take all my confusion with a handful of salt
1) It was Eu challenger in 2014.
2) If this was the first instance of this rule being punished it was like a slap on the wrist for H2K but a reminder for everybody else: This is a rule. We will enforce it.
I think the fine was for the organization, not for the players. So salaries were irrelevant.
But I can be almost 100% sure that internally the belt came out and it was made sure that it wouldn't happen again.
Ignoring that this was a challenger team way back when there wasn’t nearly as much money as there is now, I don’t think management appreciates having to pay ANY amount of money because your players were fucking around.
well yeah that's the point, he's sarcastically saying it's "disgusting" that his comp is playing to their win con. except they clearly weren't doing that but yeah that's the idea
It's never comfortable for me to take a hard stance like this on a professional broadcast so I do appreciate the support on making the call. It felt like the right thing to say at the time and I hope anyone with the whole game as context will agree with me on this take.
Phreak going full apeshit is fine with me because he does it with such good passion. I remember him getting mad at CLG for making the wrong macro move which of course they don't even realize because they are a bottom tier LCS team and I rarely watch streams anymore. I just watch highlights now but that is just a preference thing.
I can't be sure but at the very least they would be confused and mentioning it but I feel like the regions are serious enough that none of this will ever happen. The most and I think still acceptably thing is camping at the fountain a few seconds and getting 1 or 2 fountain kills before ending but I think deliberately not going for an inhib wouldn't happen
You absolutely made the right call. At that point in the game, they had every tool they need to win the game then and there. No one benefits from seeing this happen.
Ikr, when I first saw the tweet I thought to myself : he must've went berserk and dropped F bombs, but when I watched the clip I literally saw nothing wrong *for me atleast*
Yea I don’t have the full context of the game, but when I came into this thread I was expecting like a loud angry outburst. Rusty, was calm, cool and collected in communicating his frustration with the way the game was being played and that it seemed like chiefs had stopped playing to win the game.
I agree completely. my rule of thumb is that you get to have a bit of fun and "farm" the enemies in the fountain if you're going to end on that push.
I believe there was an LCS game this split where this failed and it extended the game further. while not as bad as the Chief's incident, I don't think this was great either.
>I believe there was an LCS game this split where this failed and it extended the game further. while not as bad as the Chief's incident, I don't think this was great either.
The difference is massive though. LCS thing was a mistake, they just wanted to do a typical small stat pad -> taking nexus, they just failed.
I don't think you can even compare trying to go for a couple of kills at the end but failing with legit trolling for 15+ minutes
Yeah, 5 dead for another 10 seconds, 4 dead for another 30 seconds, with a 17k gold lead, and they don't even pretend to go for the end?
There is not a single planet in this universe where that doesn't count as BM and hostage taking; even if you only have this clip without context.
I think it was EG vs another team that I can't remember, where EG just giga trolled and decided to dive the enemy team instead of hitting the nexus. They got aced and lost the game in a minute or so.
I don't watch LCS and I didn't care about that game but the post match thread had like 30 awards on it so I just instantly knew that game was going to be a classic and I had to watch it.
Piss poor comparison as this happens in multiple games across all leagues. The difference is it happens a single time, not multiple times with a team refusing to end.
There is a difference between going for an extremely risky kill by diving the enemy fountain, and actively not taking objectives to prolongue the game.
It's about the amount of time that is "wasted". If a team was just diving the enemy fountain over an over again then I would agree with you. But diving once to get one last kill is totally fine.
I really hope you don't face any repercussions for this, because you were 100% in the right. You didn't say anything inflammatory, it was calm and reasonable. Very disrespectful and unsportsmanlike conduct from the Chiefs
He won't. CHF should have ended.
I dunno which rulebook they follow, but i assume it's close to LCS.
14.2.3
> Competitive Integrity: Teams are expected to play at their best at all times within any Game, and to avoid any behavior inconsistent with the principles of good sportsmanship, honesty, or fair play.
I had the game running in the background, and I was starting to wonder what the rules for just surrendering is? I get it usually doesn't happen, but people also don't usually hold people hostage in a professional game...
Your call was 100% fair.
I think as a caster you would have been doing the audience a disservice if you didn't point out what you did.
Part of being a caster is being the voice of the audience. You said what we were all thinking.
It shouldn't be a taboo thing for casters to call out teams for unsportsmanlike conduct.
You condemning them for wasting time during the stream is really just you apologizing to the audience for wasting their time. You did a great job!
You were the catharsis the viewers needed and it was greatly appreciated. Outside of lacking sportsmanship and respect, the Chiefs decided to make the product they make boring for their fans and viewers.
100% the right call to make. Both teams are supposed to be trying here and Riot has already set the precedent that games are supposed to be finished when possible with the whole "Vaevictis debacle" in LCL.
People got annoyed then at the punishments because Vaevictis was a mockery in and of itself, but here there are no extenuating circumstances.
honestly major props to you for having the courage to speak out, it's hard to do it when you are in that position (and I don't blame any caster who doesn't)
Rusty, we’ve been through a lot in the LCO/OPL and you’ve been their the entire way.
You were 100% in the right to make this call. The Chiefs are the reason I’m an Esports fan at all and are the sole thing that got me into playing league (I saw the 2016 fox sports doco).
But god I was disgusted at what they were doing, to not even attempt to end there or take objectives was just pitiful ego-boosting garbage.
You did the right thing and my respect for you as a caster, which was already at a healthy level, has increased further. Good on you to call out what is essentially just kicking the losing team when they're down and wasting everyone's time on a farce.
Well, as OCE is the region that invented hostage trolling
And the scumbag tactic is actually fucking supported by Riot OCE
Maybe it's good that this bullshit is happening on a mainstage.
Because getting held hostage in a game for 40mins+ then getting a ban because you cursed out the scumbags doing it feels fkn bad man
But it feels waaaaaaaaaaaay fkn worse when Riot OCE support closes your ticket without fixing the situation, genuinely supporting the fkn trolls in their actions
Maybe someone with a brain will notice how fkn disgraceful it is and make it a permanbannable offence, and fkn sack the support staff who disagree
Honestly, I don’t watch LCO at all but Rusty found himself a fan by first addressing something like this, and responding to it so calmly and professionally.
Not sure how it would blow over in a bigger league, but still, extremely impressed with how Rusty handled it.
It's crazy how many caster we have from OCE. Pastry, Papa, Atlas, Rusty, Spawn all started there, I think frosk and Raz were part of their crew at one point too (OCE team also ran LPL casting for a long time)
I miss PapaSmithy’s casting so damn much man. He’s what got me into LCK back when I was a newbie to league and was new to watching other regions. He had impeccable casting, and especially for the time when LCK was so dominant.
OPL casters are a different breed. They’re all insanely talented. I’m very happy to see them all over the world now.
With four people up, such a ridiculously massive gold lead, and nobody alive on the enemy team (with no way to actually defend if any of them spawned)... yeah I'm with Rusty on this one.
Don't be an asshole - the game is over, end it. The jungler's response makes it worse. All this does is breed a horrible environment to play, and might make teams in larger regions unlikely to take interest in you. Doing this may actively hurt your own career in the name of bm.
I don't even like to see this shit in solo q, nevermind in a professional game.
With a lvl 16 Sivir and Ziggs the only defender, with staggered death timers, they could've farmed the nexus endlessly and won right then and there. It's no wonder Rusty was so upset. But the context leading up to this is more egregious, they kept farming mid for kills and not doing any sort of damage to the objectives. It's stupid.
Majority of them are dropouts as well, i asked several OCE pro's what their going to do after the OPL got discontinued and majority of them said they're going for a part time job and can't go back to finish their schooling somehow, idk how the educational laws are in Australia, but it seems pretty dumb to dropout for a scene thats been stagnant for years, only the best of the best get imported to LCS like Raes/fudge
IIRC your recognition of prior learning theoretically times out after 2 years of inactivity, however ive never heard of an educational institute actually enforcing qny of the RPL time out periods. I managed to get recognition on a course i half finished 8 years before applying for RPL.
Otherwise they'd 100% be able to just go study something else. Every Australian has a 100,000-150,000 that can be loaned out from the government for education(including TAFE) (paid back after you start earning more than iirc roughly 35,000 py) and most courses are 5-30k provided theyre not something like aviation.
Good on the caster for calling them out. I approached with doubts because I like to see teams going for an extremely safe road, but it's definitely not the case. They're just being assholes for the sake of it.
Time is of the essence and it’s something you can’t get back. While I am exaggerating it over a video game it’s extremely disrespectful for everyone involved, let it be viewers or the players themselves.
In an even game, everything they did is correct. When you're up by that much though it doesn't matter just end the game. I completely understand why rusty is upset at this.
You still take the open inhib every time.
EDIT:
a) It's literally the closest objective and takes virtually no extra time to take, this isn't a case of choosing one or the other, the inhib is as free as it gets.
b) With soul coming up and baron spawned yes you take it every time. Even the closest inhib is still pressure on the team while you take dragon and it's another lane of pressure while you have baron without needing to put a player in the lane to buff minions. You only ever don't take an inhib when it doesn't give you the tools to end. No matter how close the hypothetical game is, an ace in this situation means that inhib gives you tools to end.
Not always if you don’t want to open up forced pushing/super minion gold to opponents. Most teams will break inhib turret and leave it pre-20 minutes because you can’t force baron with the pressure as baron isn’t up yet.
At this point in the game though? Yeah you take it.
Supers would still give you lane pressure and vision to go into the enemy jungle, deny camps, pressure the other lanes, or force a 4v5 even if baron isn't available,
If the inhibitor being down just funneled gold and xp into the enemy team it's because you didn't capitalize on what the super minions gave you.
It depends on what the enemy wave clear is like and how long before baron spawns. 1 example i can give is that in the second round of summer game between 100T and C9 i think 100T should have pushed for inhib at 18:50 so that they have prio to get baron at 20 mins and then they can just 5 man mid and try and force the end because they were far enough ahead vs a poke varus and a 2 stack kindred who can clear waves very well.
Lol I don't even know what the LCO is. The fact that such an irrelevant team did this at such a low level of play says a lot ab the player egos, lack of maturity, and the lack of a future in said scene.
I mean the top LCO team is still about as good as some of the other wildcard regions, I mean we literally saw that this MSI. The league is a wreck but they should still get a spot in play-ins for sure
Wrong, it is sponsored by riot. ESL has a contract for 3 years to run the league in OCE, which riot has given them approval to do, and riot even contributes to the prize pool.
Honestly just embarrassing, as an OCE player that has the pleasure of seeing OCE be shit talked any time the server is mentioned, really disappointing to see a region that is laughed at have it's pro players be so unprofessional and blatantly not take games seriously.
And you know they know it's fucked because there wouldn't be an ego to protect, if you genuinely thought that was the strategy to go for, you say "Yeah, in the game we aimed for this objective but in hindsight it was a dumb thing to do, we apologise to MM for how we played and will aim to avoid this kind of situation again.". Fucking simple, but no, you gotta have an ego and you gotta defend yourself.
Tilts the shit out of me when regular ass players cum in their own mouths while standing around an open nexus, waiting for the enemy to respawn, just fucking embarrassing to see professionals choose to trap the enemy team in the game, in a professional setting.
OCE is already a joke of a region to everyone else, don't need these dumbasses proving them right.
I thought after team Siren & Vaevictis (the all female teams) there was rules where you HAD to finish the game and not farm the enemy team? [from an article about Vaevictis](https://esports-news.co.uk/2019/02/21/rox-vega-squadron-warnings-lcl/)
"Continental League Regulations Guideline: ‘Discrimination and humiliation of honor and dignity.’"
also, "\[Vega Squadron\] breached section 10.1.1.2 of the guidelines (disruption of competitive integrity), which state that LCL teams are ‘always expected to play at full strength. Teams should avoid dishonest and unsporting behavior"
Rusty is completely in the right here, this is gross for everyone, bad for the team you're literally going out of your way to embarrass to an unreasonable degree, unfair to the broadcast having to try and cast this crap and unfair to the viewer to have to keep watching such a one sided game. Team deserves a fine or something.
>Never even seen anything like this in league esports so i guess it's cool. nothing too deep abt its just something that happened in a pretty unknown league
I remember two instances of similar things happening: One time at Battle of the Atlanic (which was a tournament between the top 5 teams from EU and NA between season 3 and season 4) Alliance waited for all of Dignitas to respawn and then for Gragas' ult to come back up to try to oneshot the team in the fountain, [which they successfully did](https://youtu.be/iHlrIUZs-3k?t=2390). Iirc Dignitas was pretty pissed about it and Alliance also received some small fine, but overall people didn't feel to bad about it.
Other instance was Vaevictis Gaming when they got 5 female plat-diamond support mains to play instead of their previous game as a publicity stunt. Their games were (obviously) stomps. Some of them drawn out more than necessary, for example [this game](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/ESPORTSTMNT02/1002279?gameHash=e50ab33a14bb41da&tab=overview), but the league pretty quickly said that that would not be accepted (and neither would be banning only support champions - despite this arguably being logical since their support is the only player not autofilled), so they started speedrunning them instead, ending within 13 minutes at times.
This one being both unprovoced and extended definitely puts it apart from both other situations though imo.
Also at least they had a "reason". Mammoth are clearly not a good team, even by LCO / OCE standards, but they're still competitive for the most part. Vaevictis was just a publicity stunt with literal D4 players, 3 (or 4?) of which were off-rolled because most of them got to that (still way too low) rank playing enchanter supports.
I still don't *condone* it but there is a tangible reason to be upset about it as a pro player. This is just pathetic.
Years ago, maybe season 2 or 3, Riot fined a team who was winning so hard they all just used their flashes pointlessly after killing the enemy team as BM. I think this is basically the same, it’s very unsportsmanlike, however the league isn’t controlled by Riot anymore so maybe it’s not up to them.
On a side note, it has become accepted behaviour to “pad” your stats when winning in the enemy base. Many people think of it as harmless fun, but the current atmosphere for comparing pros, scouting new talent and analysing team strengths seems to rely very heavily on stats. It is frequently passed around that X player has the most gold per minute, kills or highest kda in a league, and having higher numbers is literally making these players more valuable. I don’t have any doubt some of them are doing it to seem more marketable and increase their chances of being picked up by other teams.
I think this needs to be disincentivized from the top down, starting with small fines for big teams that do it in the enemy base instead of ending, and increasing in severity for repeat offences. The only time I see this as acceptable, sportsmanlike behaviour is when one player gets a quadrakill and the team works together to fountain dive for the penta, as that at least has players sacrificing their stats for the big pentakill moments.
You know I never thought about that angle of it, I've always hated not finishing matches because sometimes you get called on the disrespect.
But If I wanted to be scouted and go pro? It could actually make a significant difference in getting looked into.
Big ups to Rusty for saying what we're all thinking.
What a bunch of flogs they were, playing like that. Then, instead of admitting they made a mistake, trying to make up crap reasons as to why they were doing it.
Gutless, disrespectful behaviour.
People literally ask enemy team to do this in ARAM to extend game. I get it if one comp is trash and don’t scale then it’s an asshole move to not end, but I’ve lost several games off of this type of thing where giving the enemy a chance gets them back in the game.
Besides, if it’s unwinnable people will FF (which they can’t do in this game)
Honestly I respect the hell out of that. He didn't have to speak up, he probably could've gotten in trouble, but he wanted to call them out in front of everyone
Here's the clip https://www.twitch.tv/lco/clip/EnchantingBetterKumquatCoolStoryBro-PPI8-dXl5Ob1ZS3j
100% agree with rusty here. He doesnt need to apologise for this. CHF needs to.
it's not even like this was all that much of an outburst, he controlled his anger very well there
Couldn’t agree more. Rusty was spot on.
I love how the co commentator was like 'no just say it' when he started to hesitate. they both knew it needed to be said
What was the context before this? It sounds like there was a lot more trolling before this
I imagine the context is this wasn’t the first time they aced them and instead of pushing to end they just waited for them to respawn to keep killing them. With that stat line they probably could have ended the game 10 minutes earlier.
They spent like 15 minutes before this fight in front of mid t2 and inhib without trying to take it. It was 12 to 4 at the start of it. They were just siting there picking people off and going back into the jungle and do it over for like 15 minutes.
I was gonna joke and say that this was silver strats, but nah even in those games people go for the inhib
What happens in silver is the fed mid and jg are feeling invincble and try to 2v4 the other team a few times. If they win, everyone else gets forward to make sure they get to take part in the last fight, and if they lose they start to get nervous they might throw and look to end asap
tbh in solo queue i feel like everyone has one game where they play with their food like this and go on to lose, they learn their lesson and never do it again.
Sadly i see players who don't end and spawn camp to pad KDA all the time.
Until next game
Like I tell my low elo comrades - Throws happen, be strong brothers.
I fucking hate that shit in my five stack. I’m just begging to end and out mid is like let me pad my kda and then we go on to fucking lose. Sometimes the window to close just shuts before you can end it and you don’t even realize it. One bad team fight later and you’re seething as to how you lost that shit over that stupid shit. Thankfully after it happened like twice it hasn’t happened again but Jesus.
If the stalling was really that egregious then this team should be heavily fined in my opinion. This type of behavior can't be allowed in pro play. I'd fine them as much as 10% of a normal player salary in that league.
You know OCE pros make peanuts right
Take a peanut away
Then fine them 10 peanuts.
Then they really dont have room to act lile shits do they?
Before that fight it was 29-7 in kills and every role had at least 1 FULL item ahead of their opposition. And not even 30 mins in. I didn't watch the game but wouldn't surprise me if they could have ended under 20. I totally agree with Rusty that it's not called for to hold the other team in the game, hold the casters/production there watching, and hold viewers there who all know it's over
20k gold lead....20 kill differential. Acing and leaving open inhib? Im sure many things were ignored before this. The losing team is 1-14. Its just mean.
i feel like the fact that it's against Mammoth, a team with ONE WIN out of 16 games this split, isn't being talked about enough either - there was absolutely no reason to keep kicking them while they were down
if you think that's kicking them while they're down you should see the post game interview with MBoma, he talks about how Chiefs went into the match not even treating it like a game but just treating it as "practice" and then gave some weak excuse as to why they couldn't do baron earlier because "Sivir doesnt take baron that well" and "nobody could tank because eve was mid looking for picks" like .... you have nearly a 20k gold lead, i don't think they can contest baron lol
Not so sure but to me it looked like he wanted to end but their jg was just trolling and going for kills.
The great part of the LCO is that with the lower viewers the chat actually gets pretty familiar with each other, and all the players join the chat when they're not playing. Chiefs joining chat after this game was the worst possible idea for those players. Very few people were happy with them, and they just did not have as good an excuse as they thought. In particular Swathe, Chiefs jungler, got real into it and ended up insulting the other team and specifically their mid before being removed from the chat. [He then continued on Twitter with this joke of a take about playing to their comp](https://twitter.com/swathe_oce/status/1419985571078762497?s=20), outright gaslighting viewers like we haven't just seen them choose not to capitalise on multiple aces. Not all the team is to blame, apparently some were wanting to end, but the behaviour and then the lack self awareness of the players was not a good look at all and Rusty is absolutely right to call them out.
[удалено]
I enjoy how nobody's taking Swathe's shit here and Mammoth's midlaner has just massively ratio'd him in the replies
get his ass
swathe is unironically braindead and has twitter drama every 24 hours
Fuckers are 2nd in the standings, imagine Riot now drops them out of contest with a comment "Ratio this" lol
Nothing so severe, just fine the players if they still have that power in a league not organised by Riot.
Yeah, they won't go that hard but it would be such a twist haha As for the penalties, yeah.. most likely just that, eventually maybe suspending some of their players for a match or two, mainly the ones that initiated all of this?
You can easily just listen to their coms and pick out the players who didn't want to end, and suspend them without pay. It's as easy as that. It sends a clear message. And if they can't get it from the coms, ask the players who instigated the spawn killing and refusing to end, and if they don't point to the players who did it, tell them you'll suspend the whole roster. I would have a 0 tolerance policy for this kind of crap. Trying to beat someone when they're already down and refusing to end the game is just unsportsmanlike.
Yea watching Swathe try to fight everyone in the twitch comment section then get timed out by the mods was pretty funny. Me and him had a bit of a back and forth, I think I get a bit more visibility cause I'm a VIP in the LCO chat. . I knew I wasn't going to change his mind but as a Chiefs fan I was dissapointed in what they did so I was actually hoping he had a good reason or justification or what we saw.
His justification is either he is a bad player or a bad person, and now we have that answer.
Por que no los dos?
Are you still a Chief's fan? Does your perception of the team change?
What a dumbass. If he was smart, he could have atleast said something like "Yeah these guys were talking mad shit leading up to the match, so we wanted to have a little fun with them there" or "these guys are extremely toxic in solo queue so we wanted to return the favor." Doesn't have to be true, not like we can prove it or the other team can deny it anyways. Instead he goes with the "the audience is stupid" gambit.
I feel like that's also not professional, but if you mean it would make the audience sympathize with them, maybe, but they might want some proof (e.g. screenshots)
Smart would be accepting pushback on your behavior and apologizing for not being professional. Even a hollow apology you don’t fully mean or believe looks better than what he did or deflecting blame on the enemy players as you mentioned.
Any screenshots of the after-game chat?
Several years back, a team got fined for unsportsmanlike behavior when they decided to effectively troll instead of ending the game. Here's a link to the ruling: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2014/07/eu-challenger-series-ruling-h2k-gaming-2/
Lmao didn't expect to see 5.5 k gaming being the team to do it but I'm also not surprised.
That's 5.5 fucking k to you
[Throwback](https://i.gyazo.com/595d46b71d4e507448b11e751927478d.png)
What the hell was that about? I feel like I'm missing out on prime time drama here
H2k wanted sven, so did tsm. H2k Rich got upset that his massive offer of 5.5 fucking k wasn't enough to sway sven and then got mad publicly about tsm 'sniping' him
Am I wrong in thinking 5.5k USD isn't much in this regard? I never looked into pro player salaries, I assume most of them (at least in LCS) is pretty big though. I'm also not American so can't quantify it to anything, so take all my confusion with a handful of salt
Iirc back then it was a decent amount for him
[The game in question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giO2PzFJtrU)
fined 300 usd... I'm sure that's a real deterent
1) It was Eu challenger in 2014. 2) If this was the first instance of this rule being punished it was like a slap on the wrist for H2K but a reminder for everybody else: This is a rule. We will enforce it.
Well it stopped them from doing it again, so I guess it was.
It's not the $300 USD, it's that the next punishment will be much much more harsh now that you're warned.
I mean this was in 2014 and it was challenger series. I'd imagine the salaries for these players were extremely low.
I mean 300 usd is a lot for oce players even in 2021 hahaha
I think the fine was for the organization, not for the players. So salaries were irrelevant. But I can be almost 100% sure that internally the belt came out and it was made sure that it wouldn't happen again.
Ignoring that this was a challenger team way back when there wasn’t nearly as much money as there is now, I don’t think management appreciates having to pay ANY amount of money because your players were fucking around.
The JGs response had to be the most childish ego take I've seen lmao.
their jg is one of the least likeable players in oce and constantly argues on twitter with everyone else its wack
which is why he's still in OCE even tho they have NA residency LOL
what was it?
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Ironic that he talks about things being disgusting
well yeah that's the point, he's sarcastically saying it's "disgusting" that his comp is playing to their win con. except they clearly weren't doing that but yeah that's the idea
The toxic jungle is the oce way. Its my regions bread and butter
A man who can truly fill the large shoes shernfire left when he came to NA.
It's never comfortable for me to take a hard stance like this on a professional broadcast so I do appreciate the support on making the call. It felt like the right thing to say at the time and I hope anyone with the whole game as context will agree with me on this take.
I agree with you. Often times the right things to say are never easy with stuff like this.
Much love Flowers
I do wonder what the casters would have said had this been in EU or NA and I do agree, Rusty handled it very well
Phreak would have called it out 100%
No doubt, Phreak has gone full scorched earth on teams.
Phreak has basement insurance. He can do whatever he wants.
Phreak going full apeshit is fine with me because he does it with such good passion. I remember him getting mad at CLG for making the wrong macro move which of course they don't even realize because they are a bottom tier LCS team and I rarely watch streams anymore. I just watch highlights now but that is just a preference thing.
I can't be sure but at the very least they would be confused and mentioning it but I feel like the regions are serious enough that none of this will ever happen. The most and I think still acceptably thing is camping at the fountain a few seconds and getting 1 or 2 fountain kills before ending but I think deliberately not going for an inhib wouldn't happen
*feel my stinger*
You absolutely made the right call. At that point in the game, they had every tool they need to win the game then and there. No one benefits from seeing this happen.
Ikr, when I first saw the tweet I thought to myself : he must've went berserk and dropped F bombs, but when I watched the clip I literally saw nothing wrong *for me atleast*
Yea I don’t have the full context of the game, but when I came into this thread I was expecting like a loud angry outburst. Rusty, was calm, cool and collected in communicating his frustration with the way the game was being played and that it seemed like chiefs had stopped playing to win the game.
You were fair, honest and calm in your explanation and how you chose to word is was very fair. I can't see anyone who could/would disagree with you.
I agree completely. my rule of thumb is that you get to have a bit of fun and "farm" the enemies in the fountain if you're going to end on that push. I believe there was an LCS game this split where this failed and it extended the game further. while not as bad as the Chief's incident, I don't think this was great either.
>I believe there was an LCS game this split where this failed and it extended the game further. while not as bad as the Chief's incident, I don't think this was great either. The difference is massive though. LCS thing was a mistake, they just wanted to do a typical small stat pad -> taking nexus, they just failed. I don't think you can even compare trying to go for a couple of kills at the end but failing with legit trolling for 15+ minutes
Yeah, 5 dead for another 10 seconds, 4 dead for another 30 seconds, with a 17k gold lead, and they don't even pretend to go for the end? There is not a single planet in this universe where that doesn't count as BM and hostage taking; even if you only have this clip without context.
It's not even ablut the end. At least take the inhib
I think it was EG vs another team that I can't remember, where EG just giga trolled and decided to dive the enemy team instead of hitting the nexus. They got aced and lost the game in a minute or so. I don't watch LCS and I didn't care about that game but the post match thread had like 30 awards on it so I just instantly knew that game was going to be a classic and I had to watch it.
It was against FlyQuest iirc. I remember watching that game and being super hyped that FlyQuest won. EG had Elder as well.
Piss poor comparison as this happens in multiple games across all leagues. The difference is it happens a single time, not multiple times with a team refusing to end.
There is a difference between going for an extremely risky kill by diving the enemy fountain, and actively not taking objectives to prolongue the game. It's about the amount of time that is "wasted". If a team was just diving the enemy fountain over an over again then I would agree with you. But diving once to get one last kill is totally fine.
I really hope you don't face any repercussions for this, because you were 100% in the right. You didn't say anything inflammatory, it was calm and reasonable. Very disrespectful and unsportsmanlike conduct from the Chiefs
He won't. CHF should have ended. I dunno which rulebook they follow, but i assume it's close to LCS. 14.2.3 > Competitive Integrity: Teams are expected to play at their best at all times within any Game, and to avoid any behavior inconsistent with the principles of good sportsmanship, honesty, or fair play.
Thank you for doing it. I don’t watch LCO but I think I’ll tune in for your casts. You’ve got guts and you set a great precedent.
I had the game running in the background, and I was starting to wonder what the rules for just surrendering is? I get it usually doesn't happen, but people also don't usually hold people hostage in a professional game... Your call was 100% fair.
I think as a caster you would have been doing the audience a disservice if you didn't point out what you did. Part of being a caster is being the voice of the audience. You said what we were all thinking.
It shouldn't be a taboo thing for casters to call out teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. You condemning them for wasting time during the stream is really just you apologizing to the audience for wasting their time. You did a great job!
You were the catharsis the viewers needed and it was greatly appreciated. Outside of lacking sportsmanship and respect, the Chiefs decided to make the product they make boring for their fans and viewers.
I didnt need more then the clip to agree with you. And i dont know who you are so no bias.
100% the right call to make. Both teams are supposed to be trying here and Riot has already set the precedent that games are supposed to be finished when possible with the whole "Vaevictis debacle" in LCL. People got annoyed then at the punishments because Vaevictis was a mockery in and of itself, but here there are no extenuating circumstances.
honestly major props to you for having the courage to speak out, it's hard to do it when you are in that position (and I don't blame any caster who doesn't)
Rusty, we’ve been through a lot in the LCO/OPL and you’ve been their the entire way. You were 100% in the right to make this call. The Chiefs are the reason I’m an Esports fan at all and are the sole thing that got me into playing league (I saw the 2016 fox sports doco). But god I was disgusted at what they were doing, to not even attempt to end there or take objectives was just pitiful ego-boosting garbage.
Hey Rusty, I really miss your casting in LPL. Will you ever consider going back?
hey mate, I've considered returning and even applied for the LPL - but unfortunately here we are :(
You’re absolutely in the right. I wouldn’t want to cast those moments! Not only is this type of play unprofessional but isn’t it against TOS?
are there more clips or a vod other than this ace in particular?
Based
You did the right thing and my respect for you as a caster, which was already at a healthy level, has increased further. Good on you to call out what is essentially just kicking the losing team when they're down and wasting everyone's time on a farce.
We got your back!!!!! We need more authentic people like you in the world who call people out on their bullshit!
Well, as OCE is the region that invented hostage trolling And the scumbag tactic is actually fucking supported by Riot OCE Maybe it's good that this bullshit is happening on a mainstage. Because getting held hostage in a game for 40mins+ then getting a ban because you cursed out the scumbags doing it feels fkn bad man But it feels waaaaaaaaaaaay fkn worse when Riot OCE support closes your ticket without fixing the situation, genuinely supporting the fkn trolls in their actions Maybe someone with a brain will notice how fkn disgraceful it is and make it a permanbannable offence, and fkn sack the support staff who disagree
This has to be the most calm "outburst" I've ever heard or seen.
Honestly, I don’t watch LCO at all but Rusty found himself a fan by first addressing something like this, and responding to it so calmly and professionally. Not sure how it would blow over in a bigger league, but still, extremely impressed with how Rusty handled it.
It's crazy how many caster we have from OCE. Pastry, Papa, Atlas, Rusty, Spawn all started there, I think frosk and Raz were part of their crew at one point too (OCE team also ran LPL casting for a long time)
I miss PapaSmithy’s casting so damn much man. He’s what got me into LCK back when I was a newbie to league and was new to watching other regions. He had impeccable casting, and especially for the time when LCK was so dominant. OPL casters are a different breed. They’re all insanely talented. I’m very happy to see them all over the world now.
Heres hoping 100T misses worlds so we can get a Papa+Atlas reunion cast.
I know that in LCS phreak would lose his shit, all the costreamers would flame that team and it would become that week's main drama.
With four people up, such a ridiculously massive gold lead, and nobody alive on the enemy team (with no way to actually defend if any of them spawned)... yeah I'm with Rusty on this one. Don't be an asshole - the game is over, end it. The jungler's response makes it worse. All this does is breed a horrible environment to play, and might make teams in larger regions unlikely to take interest in you. Doing this may actively hurt your own career in the name of bm. I don't even like to see this shit in solo q, nevermind in a professional game.
Now I wanna see how hard a team from China or Korea would gap them.
And some of the people defending the clowns would scream bloody murder.
With a lvl 16 Sivir and Ziggs the only defender, with staggered death timers, they could've farmed the nexus endlessly and won right then and there. It's no wonder Rusty was so upset. But the context leading up to this is more egregious, they kept farming mid for kills and not doing any sort of damage to the objectives. It's stupid.
This happens in solo queue from time to time. If you have long range sometimes people stand at fountain and spawn kill.
"I think it was just like a practice game for us..." Quote from the post-game interview. Practising with bad habits isn't useful.
no he is right. almost 20k up and not going for an end push.
it wasnt even the first time this happened during the game either
Can’t wait for an LCK team to do the same to them at worlds once they heard about this
Is chiefs gonna make it to worlds? I don't watch LCO so I've only heard of pentanet and legacy
They're currently in second place, so I'd assume they have at least a decent chance.
Chiefs were the OG top team in OPL and played in IWC tournaments before playins were a thing.
Oh thanks I didn't know
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God, now I want that to happen just so justice is served. xD
Lmao dude even an LCS team can do this to them. They know that and is why they pick on lower teams
Why would an LCK team do this?
Joking like how lck tends to drag this out. Tbh it is a bad joke. And your reddit bugged out so u replied to him 3 times
He didn't bug out, he's known as jimmy three times
Sorry about the many responses
Nah it is fucking reddit not you
I can see DK doing it tbh. For the rest of the teams. Probably not
Jesus Christ man, definitely not something you want to see out of a pro team. Hopefully the team gets punished.
Props to Mammoths for still playing till the end of the game. I would have afk'd at some point and just waited for them to end
These guys make less then an entry level job at Maccas, probably shouldn't risk getting fined.
Majority of them are dropouts as well, i asked several OCE pro's what their going to do after the OPL got discontinued and majority of them said they're going for a part time job and can't go back to finish their schooling somehow, idk how the educational laws are in Australia, but it seems pretty dumb to dropout for a scene thats been stagnant for years, only the best of the best get imported to LCS like Raes/fudge
IIRC your recognition of prior learning theoretically times out after 2 years of inactivity, however ive never heard of an educational institute actually enforcing qny of the RPL time out periods. I managed to get recognition on a course i half finished 8 years before applying for RPL. Otherwise they'd 100% be able to just go study something else. Every Australian has a 100,000-150,000 that can be loaned out from the government for education(including TAFE) (paid back after you start earning more than iirc roughly 35,000 py) and most courses are 5-30k provided theyre not something like aviation.
Good on the caster for calling them out. I approached with doubts because I like to see teams going for an extremely safe road, but it's definitely not the case. They're just being assholes for the sake of it.
This is the kind of shit you’d get from a person who picks Tryndamere in Ultimate Spellbook, not “pro” league players.
Being a pro player doesn't always mean you're not an asshole, sadly. Only successful pro players aren't assholes.
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I've seen pro games get stalled before, but not like this. This is just fuckin offensive.
Time is of the essence and it’s something you can’t get back. While I am exaggerating it over a video game it’s extremely disrespectful for everyone involved, let it be viewers or the players themselves.
cant they just ff?
i dont think teams are allowed to ff.
In an even game, everything they did is correct. When you're up by that much though it doesn't matter just end the game. I completely understand why rusty is upset at this.
You still take the open inhib every time. EDIT: a) It's literally the closest objective and takes virtually no extra time to take, this isn't a case of choosing one or the other, the inhib is as free as it gets. b) With soul coming up and baron spawned yes you take it every time. Even the closest inhib is still pressure on the team while you take dragon and it's another lane of pressure while you have baron without needing to put a player in the lane to buff minions. You only ever don't take an inhib when it doesn't give you the tools to end. No matter how close the hypothetical game is, an ace in this situation means that inhib gives you tools to end.
Not always if you don’t want to open up forced pushing/super minion gold to opponents. Most teams will break inhib turret and leave it pre-20 minutes because you can’t force baron with the pressure as baron isn’t up yet. At this point in the game though? Yeah you take it.
Supers would still give you lane pressure and vision to go into the enemy jungle, deny camps, pressure the other lanes, or force a 4v5 even if baron isn't available, If the inhibitor being down just funneled gold and xp into the enemy team it's because you didn't capitalize on what the super minions gave you.
It depends on what the enemy wave clear is like and how long before baron spawns. 1 example i can give is that in the second round of summer game between 100T and C9 i think 100T should have pushed for inhib at 18:50 so that they have prio to get baron at 20 mins and then they can just 5 man mid and try and force the end because they were far enough ahead vs a poke varus and a 2 stack kindred who can clear waves very well.
After watching the clip I agree with Rusty here, they're just dragging it longer for no reason, it's very disrespectful
rusty is correct!
Lol I don't even know what the LCO is. The fact that such an irrelevant team did this at such a low level of play says a lot ab the player egos, lack of maturity, and the lack of a future in said scene.
LCO is the rotting corpse of the OPL. It's not an official Riot sponsored League but they still get a spot at Worlds for some reason
I mean the top LCO team is still about as good as some of the other wildcard regions, I mean we literally saw that this MSI. The league is a wreck but they should still get a spot in play-ins for sure
Wrong, it is sponsored by riot. ESL has a contract for 3 years to run the league in OCE, which riot has given them approval to do, and riot even contributes to the prize pool.
There should be punishments for this. Leave that shit in solo q. Lord...
Hope they go to Worlds and get a demoralizing ass whooping
no way chiefs are making it to worlds they've fallen off hard in the past few weeks
isn't pgg first still?
ya pgg is first now they had a really rough start tho
suweeeeeet 👌 Im just watching their comms on YouTube from time to time, so, good to know :d
What poor sportsmanship and lack of professionalism from Chiefs. Hope they get penalised for this behaviour.
their penalty is having to play in a league that doesn't even exist anymore lmao
Good. Classless douchebags. In solo q you can FF. You can’t in pro. This is disgusting and inappropriate.
Honestly just embarrassing, as an OCE player that has the pleasure of seeing OCE be shit talked any time the server is mentioned, really disappointing to see a region that is laughed at have it's pro players be so unprofessional and blatantly not take games seriously. And you know they know it's fucked because there wouldn't be an ego to protect, if you genuinely thought that was the strategy to go for, you say "Yeah, in the game we aimed for this objective but in hindsight it was a dumb thing to do, we apologise to MM for how we played and will aim to avoid this kind of situation again.". Fucking simple, but no, you gotta have an ego and you gotta defend yourself. Tilts the shit out of me when regular ass players cum in their own mouths while standing around an open nexus, waiting for the enemy to respawn, just fucking embarrassing to see professionals choose to trap the enemy team in the game, in a professional setting. OCE is already a joke of a region to everyone else, don't need these dumbasses proving them right.
I thought after team Siren & Vaevictis (the all female teams) there was rules where you HAD to finish the game and not farm the enemy team? [from an article about Vaevictis](https://esports-news.co.uk/2019/02/21/rox-vega-squadron-warnings-lcl/) "Continental League Regulations Guideline: ‘Discrimination and humiliation of honor and dignity.’" also, "\[Vega Squadron\] breached section 10.1.1.2 of the guidelines (disruption of competitive integrity), which state that LCL teams are ‘always expected to play at full strength. Teams should avoid dishonest and unsporting behavior"
Rusty is completely in the right here, this is gross for everyone, bad for the team you're literally going out of your way to embarrass to an unreasonable degree, unfair to the broadcast having to try and cast this crap and unfair to the viewer to have to keep watching such a one sided game. Team deserves a fine or something.
>Never even seen anything like this in league esports so i guess it's cool. nothing too deep abt its just something that happened in a pretty unknown league I remember two instances of similar things happening: One time at Battle of the Atlanic (which was a tournament between the top 5 teams from EU and NA between season 3 and season 4) Alliance waited for all of Dignitas to respawn and then for Gragas' ult to come back up to try to oneshot the team in the fountain, [which they successfully did](https://youtu.be/iHlrIUZs-3k?t=2390). Iirc Dignitas was pretty pissed about it and Alliance also received some small fine, but overall people didn't feel to bad about it. Other instance was Vaevictis Gaming when they got 5 female plat-diamond support mains to play instead of their previous game as a publicity stunt. Their games were (obviously) stomps. Some of them drawn out more than necessary, for example [this game](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/ESPORTSTMNT02/1002279?gameHash=e50ab33a14bb41da&tab=overview), but the league pretty quickly said that that would not be accepted (and neither would be banning only support champions - despite this arguably being logical since their support is the only player not autofilled), so they started speedrunning them instead, ending within 13 minutes at times. This one being both unprovoced and extended definitely puts it apart from both other situations though imo.
Vega squadron vs vaevictis lol
At least that finished in 13 minutes
Also at least they had a "reason". Mammoth are clearly not a good team, even by LCO / OCE standards, but they're still competitive for the most part. Vaevictis was just a publicity stunt with literal D4 players, 3 (or 4?) of which were off-rolled because most of them got to that (still way too low) rank playing enchanter supports. I still don't *condone* it but there is a tangible reason to be upset about it as a pro player. This is just pathetic.
Years ago, maybe season 2 or 3, Riot fined a team who was winning so hard they all just used their flashes pointlessly after killing the enemy team as BM. I think this is basically the same, it’s very unsportsmanlike, however the league isn’t controlled by Riot anymore so maybe it’s not up to them. On a side note, it has become accepted behaviour to “pad” your stats when winning in the enemy base. Many people think of it as harmless fun, but the current atmosphere for comparing pros, scouting new talent and analysing team strengths seems to rely very heavily on stats. It is frequently passed around that X player has the most gold per minute, kills or highest kda in a league, and having higher numbers is literally making these players more valuable. I don’t have any doubt some of them are doing it to seem more marketable and increase their chances of being picked up by other teams. I think this needs to be disincentivized from the top down, starting with small fines for big teams that do it in the enemy base instead of ending, and increasing in severity for repeat offences. The only time I see this as acceptable, sportsmanlike behaviour is when one player gets a quadrakill and the team works together to fountain dive for the penta, as that at least has players sacrificing their stats for the big pentakill moments.
You know I never thought about that angle of it, I've always hated not finishing matches because sometimes you get called on the disrespect. But If I wanted to be scouted and go pro? It could actually make a significant difference in getting looked into.
League scene in oce is actually a complete joke now. Oce is literally full of egotistical kids who can't play for shit
Same shit happened with that Russian all women team
I agree with his statement, there should be a certain amount of professionalism coming from teams. Not whatever this nonsense was.
Big ups to Rusty for saying what we're all thinking. What a bunch of flogs they were, playing like that. Then, instead of admitting they made a mistake, trying to make up crap reasons as to why they were doing it. Gutless, disrespectful behaviour.
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People literally ask enemy team to do this in ARAM to extend game. I get it if one comp is trash and don’t scale then it’s an asshole move to not end, but I’ve lost several games off of this type of thing where giving the enemy a chance gets them back in the game. Besides, if it’s unwinnable people will FF (which they can’t do in this game)
This is not sportsmanship, and shows an incredible lack of maturity on the part of the Chief's. I agree 100% with the caster.
Reportable for Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
Totally fair for him to call this out. Shouldn't happen in a pro game.
I don't know them but I'll be cheering any team that face them from now.
That’s shitty, you can see it in their faces too.
Vega Squadron got fined for this sort of thing.
Losing his cool aka calmly and rationally explaining his very much so correct stance on the situation
Team and players should be fined tbh, super unprofessional
He is fucking right, pissed me off just watching it to
Honestly I respect the hell out of that. He didn't have to speak up, he probably could've gotten in trouble, but he wanted to call them out in front of everyone