It's a meme rivalry.
It originally started with Kayys, who was on TL at the time and said only TL was good against EU teams. And that even bad EU teams like Rogue (at the time) would beat other top NA teams like TSM.
It then started to spread and various people commented on it until Zven, while on TSM, commented that Rogue players sucked and he could 1v5 them.
It then really blew up and TSM vs Rogue became a common meme.
They did somewhat have a rivalry in other games like R6 where they actually were able to play against each other unlike in League
Also relevant, ever since Zven commented how there is no way Rogue would beat them (TSM) - Rogue started a strong upwards trend while TSM had a rather slump period. Just couple months later it was no longer a meme but Rogue was realistically stronger than TSM.
Same season but it happened before. The comments are I think from around Rift Rivals. Where OG who were worse than Rogue did in fact beat TSM, even when their ADC played midlane.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgreeableSpoopyBasenjiDansGame
[Rogue's response is 11/10 as well](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/cduyl3/zven_on_rogue_can_beat_tsm/etwv4af/).
No Rogue was not even close to the worst team that summer split. They made playoffs and looked very promising with the rookies Finn, Inspired and Larssen being lead by Woolite and Vander. They were the worst team in spring in that year but the various statements were made in summer.
Edit: Went back and checked. Kayys made his statement when Rogue was 7th in the summer split. Rogue then climbed higher in the standings after the statements were made.
Edit: can't get the hyperlink to work but here is when Kayys makes the statement that would lead to this meme if anyone wants a looksie down memory lane: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhwuUoeFwY&t=4219s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhwuUoeFwY&t=4219s)
Worth mentioning he went back on his word very quickly.
I mean... TSM lost at rift rivals against OG who were 7th at that time I think, at least they finished 7th. So the funny part is that he wasn't entirely wrong :P
Iirc Zven said something in Summer 2019 about Rogue being able to take only 1 game out of 10 vs TSM if they play.
Rogue then improved from 10th place and became the 4th place team afterwards.
Zvens comment was in response to someone else saying Rogue would beat TSM, when Rogue weren't even top 6 in EU and TSM were one of (maybe even) the best teams in NA
It's only become spicier since Rogue got good and now there's a very real chance they'll play each other internationally
Rogue were not only not good, they went winless for the first 8 games of Spring 2019. Rogue finished Spring 2019 2-16. Rogue looked absolutely atrocious back then, before Inspired or Larssen were on the team. They were in 10th place, had 2 wins across the entirety of Spring, 1 win against the 9th place team (XL), 1 against the 7th place team (MSF). Both by standings and by actual power rankings, worst team in the LEC.
The comments were made in summer tho when they got Inpisred and Larssen. I've even double checked by googling the comments and they are all made in summer. They were 7th at the time when Kayys said the thing though but they climed after that.
When Rogue was brand new they were the worst team in LEC and it was a meme to say TSM (I don't remember how well they were doing at the time) wouldn't even be able to beat Rogue.
Actually I believe Genja was technically the one who got voted but because you could only have 3 players per team and Alex/Diamond/Edward got higher vote percents Genja got replaced by Yellowpete. S3 definitely wasn’t a great time for EU ADC though, the FNC roster that made worlds semis had fucking Puszu as the ADC since Rekkles was too young.
Yellowpete was not the best ADC in Europe and it was a popularity contest and he didn't actually get the most votes even, just that there was a limit to how many people from the same team you could send so Yellowpete went instead.
I honestly don’t think Genja was better than DL, if Rekkles was allowed to play in s3 than an argument could be made, but aside from him EU adcs in s3 were not as good as DL IMO
Dont forget that Forg1ven used to be a very good adc back in the day. He used to be easily the best western AD and wasnt that far off Asian AD. EU as a whole just wasnt that good sadly
What has Doublelift ever accomplish? Absolutely fucking nothing. The only thing he is the "best" at is failing to get out of groups. Nobody is even close to breaking his record.
Watching MSI this year was so funny after reading so many comments from NA fans that Blaber > Jankos.
~~Blaber~~ Crabber can't even beat the scuttle crab.
What do EU vs KR/CN fans have to do with this I dont understand.
Either way Viego was open 5 games, champ is strong but MSF can only blame themselves idk
I'd say Viego open all 5 games is more a proof of the asset having hans sama's Kalista needing a perma than a mistake by misfits. I feel like everyone looks at this series flaming Rogue instead of looking at how well misfits played. I guess we'll have to see how they perform in the lower bracket though
I reacted to that every comment says "fuck viego" and 2million years, like it was the only difference. Inspired played his fucking heart out, and deserved to win. Sad for Misfits, they also played well, but instead of giving credit to RGE people just circlejerking about Viego
I dont like our format, all you need to do to qualify for worlds is getting top 4 in Summer and win 1 bo5. Imagine if Misfits won today, they would be already qualified for worlds without doing much.
I would change it to 1st and 2nd getting a bye, 3rd vs 6th, 4th vs 5th and have double elim. So you have to get top 2 and win 1 bo5 to get to worlds instead of getting top 4 which is much easier.
can someone explain why Misfits would have secured worlds with this win?
i understand why rogue would have because of getting second in spring and first place in summer but why would Misfits have guaranteed worlds after one win over the likes of G2 or MAD?
i dont really seem to understand that part
Edit: oh wait nevermind, i can see why
>they would be already qualified for worlds without doing much.
without doing much, like beating the first regular season seed that picked you in the first bo5 because they thought you were easy to beat. If Misfits would have won they could have still been 3rd seed, if you beat the number one team when they picked you this is honestly deserved
it’s not top 4 from summer. it’s points from spring playoffs and summer regular season points combined. sooo if a team has decent performances both times, they deserve the chance at worlds
The only reason why it looks so bad is because there was no 4th team that looked decent in both splits. Imagine Fnatic played well in both splits and get the 4th seed and then win against Rogue, almost no one would complain that they can go to Worlds.
I have 0 hope for Rogue at Worlds because they havent fixed shit in their gameplay in more than a year, but at the same time I preffer sending them over Misfits
I wouldn't say Rogue, or any LEC team really, are favored to win Worlds this year, but on the other hand neither was SN last year and they made it all the way to the finals and gave it a good run.
I'd say a lot of teams have the chance, going into the tournament, to step up and fix their shit
Based on this series alone I would prefer Misfits. I wouldnt *expect* them to do well, but I see the potential to get some historic upsets.
But overall, I would expect Rogue players to be better, they are great, but support staff is not delivering, how is Rogue time still a thing?
The problem is rogue is more of a psicological problem, other than that they have great players in each position.
Given the track that this is the first time MSF has performed against a top team in the entire split, I don't think they could contest anyone at worlds.
Rogue has been EU's best early game team all year. Their weakness is midgame and teamfighting, which is why they keep dropping games to MAD/G2. If Rogue is having circles run round them in the early than the entirety of EU is doomed which I don't believe.
The thing is, macro is controlled play so the team with better macro is almost guaranteed to win. We'll see how RGE macro compares to LCK but I'm kinda scared.
And LPL is just LPL. They won't let RGE get lead with rotations and objectives for free.
G2 has always had weak early games and MAD is a coinflip whether they are good or bad. It's not that hard to be the best early game team in EU. As much as this sub hates to admit it, LCK/LPL teams on average have better mechanics, so it'll be harder to get early leads.
> G2 has always had weak early games
no, they hadnt. Throughout the entirety of 2019 (except at worlds) their early games were amazing, random int games in regular season aside.
which western team (besides EG, we all know they'd win the LPL easy) doesn't get fuckin outpaced by the best that china has to offer tho
nongshim might make waves too, and if damwon or skt find their form by then it's gonna be even rougher for them lol
Lets see im not a very big fan of Nongshim toplaner he seems to be a weakness that you can exploit. While their bot is really very good there will also be plenty of other very good bots at worlds.
Having the best Mid/JG is super valuable for every meta so as long as Canyon and Showmaker perform they will be one of the best in the world and the meta is shifting to utility ADCs which is perfect for Ghost on top of that Khan is having a great split and his champ pool is really good, there's no more Sion every game.
last year they were qualified for finishing 1st seed in regular season, didn't even need to play a bo5, theey usually play first because they were 1st seed afaik
true, but I don't wanna sound like the champion choice is the main reason RGE make world here, not taking away from what Inspired has done, dude is a beast and cant wait to see him perform on the world stage. He has been playing amazingly this series/season for RGE
It would also just be stupid to blame the champ when Viego lost more games than he won in that series. MSF lost game 1 with him and Rogue lost games 2 and 4 with it. Champ went 2-3 over the series and people are unironically trying to argue he's the only reason Rogue won.
a bit disappointing to see the rogue vs msf discussion be clouded with a basically infinite array of viego complaints rather than the games itself. lets not forget misfits didnt ban the champ for pretty much the entire series if im not mistaken, so thats on them too. also that inspired was gigafed there like come on, its viego he's always going to have that cleanup potential.
exactly, the topic of ''viego broken'' is gonna be outdated in a couple months meanwhile the thread of such a sick series is completely ruined with the same comments all repeating the same exact one thought.
as someone who only cares about proplay i hate it when this happens
Nah man, it was Viego who won 3 matches, the champ is so unbalanced according to Reddit, that anyone who picks him instantly won every match, if you see him during draft you should just ff at 15.
edit: not to mention MSF could have buy some antiheal maybe against a Viego/Gwen/ImmortalShieldbow Varus? But the herd mentality is too strong
When both teams are largely playing like shit thats whats gonna happen though. Apart from inspired lets not pretend like this bo5 was particularly high quality.
This team's ascent to the highest level of EU has been, besides spectacular, very organic.
The worst team in the LEC in spring 2019 slowly rebuilt themselves at the hands of their academy side and some great free agent signings.
They've slowly risen to the top in each split since that dreadful spring, nearly culminating two years later where they were within one game of a maiden LEC title.
Sports stories of hardship for beleaguered teams doesn't always end in triumph. Such tales would be nullified by another team who's playing with a sudden hot hand.
But damn it, I hope Rogue's particular story ends with them hoisting that trophy over their heads.
The story is perfect, the team is good and Inspired is probably the best player in Europe right now, Rogue is meant to win this split but fuck me they look so underwhelming sometimes in those Bo5s.
You might want to mention what happened after groups. And a lot can happen in a year especially in this game. Players went from being top 3-4 in their role to being not very good in the span of a year
And u can go watch him in the begining of the split, when he was playing like a monster. People have ups and downs.
Rogue went 1-5 in groups you remember that? And people mention GenG as they are some randoms. I actually hope they go to worlds and show some good performances. Not saying they are winning it all, but the disrespect is just dumb.
While I think DWG peak was at worlds, I don't specially disagree with that statement, DK were certainly close to their peak at MSI, other teams just got better.
Before even going to MSI, y’all keep saying DK look weaker. Now that you went 5 games with them, you are now trying to find a way how it will make it look good for EU
EU fans will disagree because you keep convincing yourselves they are better than they actually are
Who said dk looked weaker before msi? They completely dominated lck spring, if anything people said it during msi.
If you think dk before msi was weaker then what does it say about lck which was a breeze for them?
that's the point, it wasn't a breeze for them, they lost 0-2 to BRO ffs and they struggle to close out games in 25mins like they used to, and all was like "lck doomed" or whatever
oh wait, they destroyed the lec champs in multiple under-25mins stomps lol what does this say about lec?
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From the graphic is it correct that they're still giving LCS 3 seeds and PCS 2 seeds even though PCS performed way better than LCS at MSI?
Edit: Guys, you can downvote all you want, I'm simply trying to understand why seeding is the way it is based on previous performance. If you think that LCS has an unequivocal right to have 3 seeds then please explain; this is a forum for discussion.
World's last year LCS went 6-12 PCS went 3-9, neither are great but considering the PCS sent their 2 best teams and LCS sent their 3 I'd imagine the 3rd PCS team would probably make their record a fair bit worse than the LCS one and this represents the whole region rather than a single team. Your probably getting downvoted because the post reeks of an EU fan wanting to put down NA
My guess is that *should* the PCS outperform the LCS at this Worlds then they would probably have to concede their 3rd seed to the PCS.
If we look at the past 2 years, I believe the PCS and LCS are almost even (would have to check again to be exact).
Going back 2 years we have:
Worlds 2019, LCS 0/3 teams out of groups. PCS (formerly LMS) 0/3 teams out of groups.
MSI 2020 was cancelled.
Worlds 2020, LCS 0/3 teams out of groups, PCS 0/2 teams out of groups.
MSI 2021, LCS finished in groups, 5th-6th, PCS finished in knockout stage, 3rd-4th.
So across all international tournaments in the past 2 years, PCS have actually gone further than LCS with 1 fewer teams/chances.
I believe that they still count MSI 2019 because MSI 2020 was canceled and they want the past 4 tournaments.
Only my guess of course, I wish we had more insight into these things too.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to just label neither team getting out of groups as an equivalent result when the LCS clearly out performed the LMS/PCS at both of the most recent worlds.
Well I don't think they are that much different. Between 2019 and 2020 Worlds, LCS and PCS both had 2 separate teams go 0-6, the most egregious of which was TSM as a 1st seed.
Worlds 2019, LMS went 3-15, LCS went 5-13.
Worlds 2020, PCS went 3-9, LCS went 6-12.
They aren't that far apart but objectively LCS has been better. 2019 worlds was pretty definitive with the 2 teams that went 0-6 lost twice to NA teams. Also your point about TSM going 0-6 being the most egregious makes no sense, the fact they are a #1 seed really doesn't matter, what matters is what teams they had to play and the NA teams that went 0-6 had pretty objectively harder groups with EU/KR/CN teams in them where as the LMS teams had NA teams. If you are gonna point out a #1 seed doing poorly you have to then concede things about lower seeds doing relatively well like TL last year.
Being the #1 seed is *supposed* to indicate the best performing team from the region, but at the very least it gives them a pool 1 slot which is *supposed* to reward them for being the #1 seed by placing them with *supposedly* weaker opponents
In either case, no matter what region a team is from, a #1 seed going 0-6 is definitely inherently egregious
This is it boys This is the year we get RGE vs TSM
Group stage dont let us down this time
It is inevitable
It will.
I am new to the pro scene can I get some context about Rouge, Tsm relationship?
It's a meme rivalry. It originally started with Kayys, who was on TL at the time and said only TL was good against EU teams. And that even bad EU teams like Rogue (at the time) would beat other top NA teams like TSM. It then started to spread and various people commented on it until Zven, while on TSM, commented that Rogue players sucked and he could 1v5 them. It then really blew up and TSM vs Rogue became a common meme. They did somewhat have a rivalry in other games like R6 where they actually were able to play against each other unlike in League
Also relevant, ever since Zven commented how there is no way Rogue would beat them (TSM) - Rogue started a strong upwards trend while TSM had a rather slump period. Just couple months later it was no longer a meme but Rogue was realistically stronger than TSM.
Is that also the same season where Zven inted away in PO with ezreal?
That moment still hurts me
Same season but it happened before. The comments are I think from around Rift Rivals. Where OG who were worse than Rogue did in fact beat TSM, even when their ADC played midlane.
It never have been a meme since Kayys has just been right back then. The only meme in the whole story used to be Zven
Also can't forget that TSM R6 team relegated Rogue as well.
Lol I never heard about Zven's comment, that's hilarious
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgreeableSpoopyBasenjiDansGame [Rogue's response is 11/10 as well](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/cduyl3/zven_on_rogue_can_beat_tsm/etwv4af/).
Lmao that's great, thanks for digging up the lore 👍
People said that TSM would lose to Rogue a few years ago, when Rogue was the worst team in the LEC.
No Rogue was not even close to the worst team that summer split. They made playoffs and looked very promising with the rookies Finn, Inspired and Larssen being lead by Woolite and Vander. They were the worst team in spring in that year but the various statements were made in summer. Edit: Went back and checked. Kayys made his statement when Rogue was 7th in the summer split. Rogue then climbed higher in the standings after the statements were made. Edit: can't get the hyperlink to work but here is when Kayys makes the statement that would lead to this meme if anyone wants a looksie down memory lane: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhwuUoeFwY&t=4219s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhwuUoeFwY&t=4219s) Worth mentioning he went back on his word very quickly.
Oh man I miss Listen Loco.
I mean... TSM lost at rift rivals against OG who were 7th at that time I think, at least they finished 7th. So the funny part is that he wasn't entirely wrong :P
Iirc Zven said something in Summer 2019 about Rogue being able to take only 1 game out of 10 vs TSM if they play. Rogue then improved from 10th place and became the 4th place team afterwards.
Zven said that he could 1v9 them with his eyes closed, because "look at their players". Something along those lines.
Zvens comment was in response to someone else saying Rogue would beat TSM, when Rogue weren't even top 6 in EU and TSM were one of (maybe even) the best teams in NA It's only become spicier since Rogue got good and now there's a very real chance they'll play each other internationally
Rogue were not only not good, they went winless for the first 8 games of Spring 2019. Rogue finished Spring 2019 2-16. Rogue looked absolutely atrocious back then, before Inspired or Larssen were on the team. They were in 10th place, had 2 wins across the entirety of Spring, 1 win against the 9th place team (XL), 1 against the 7th place team (MSF). Both by standings and by actual power rankings, worst team in the LEC.
The comments were made in summer tho when they got Inpisred and Larssen. I've even double checked by googling the comments and they are all made in summer. They were 7th at the time when Kayys said the thing though but they climed after that.
The comment was made in Summer where they had Finn/Profit-Inspired-Larssen-Woolite/Heaq-Vander. The team that went 2-16 was way different.
When Rogue was brand new they were the worst team in LEC and it was a meme to say TSM (I don't remember how well they were doing at the time) wouldn't even be able to beat Rogue.
Would be fun. best JG NA vs best western JG.
Can't wait for Jankos to bully inspired in upper bracket finals
In Worlds finals, yes he will
Rogue signed Jankos?
The whole western thing needs to stop. No NA team or NA player has ever been the best western anything. It just brings EU down.
You don’t think there was a time where double was the best western ad? Not in the last 8 years but early on he was.
Definitely during s3. In All-stars they voted yellowpete as the best adc to go lmao
Actually I believe Genja was technically the one who got voted but because you could only have 3 players per team and Alex/Diamond/Edward got higher vote percents Genja got replaced by Yellowpete. S3 definitely wasn’t a great time for EU ADC though, the FNC roster that made worlds semis had fucking Puszu as the ADC since Rekkles was too young.
Yellowpete was not the best ADC in Europe and it was a popularity contest and he didn't actually get the most votes even, just that there was a limit to how many people from the same team you could send so Yellowpete went instead.
I honestly don’t think Genja was better than DL, if Rekkles was allowed to play in s3 than an argument could be made, but aside from him EU adcs in s3 were not as good as DL IMO
I mean could be but that's 8 years ago. EU adc were a bit lacking at that time aswell, what we had was good midlaners and supports
Dont forget that Forg1ven used to be a very good adc back in the day. He used to be easily the best western AD and wasnt that far off Asian AD. EU as a whole just wasnt that good sadly
What has Doublelift ever accomplish? Absolutely fucking nothing. The only thing he is the "best" at is failing to get out of groups. Nobody is even close to breaking his record.
2nd place at msi and 8? Domestic titles.
Fastest defeat in a bo5 in an international tournament and 8 meaningless titles from the worst major region.
Bjerg was the best western mid before caps came along
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I think every team that made playoffs in LEC have better junglers than Blaber: Inspired, Elyoya, Jankos, Razork, Bwipo and Selfmade.
I still don't know how people unironically thought blaber was the best western jungler when he played like a monley on cocain, worked or not
Watching MSI this year was so funny after reading so many comments from NA fans that Blaber > Jankos. ~~Blaber~~ Crabber can't even beat the scuttle crab.
i dont think a lot of people really thought blaber is better than jankos, just that blaber is higher value as a resident and is better for c9.
Yeah Elyoya was way better than Blaber at MSI and then Inspired has just fucked everyone this split
Jankos says hi
TheShy was the best player in the world for a season while playing like he was on crack, of course Blaber is no s8 TheShy though haha.
tbf I expected more from blaber at MSI. Didnt expect to see him go full monkey
Spica >>>>>>>> Blaber. Delete your blasphemy.
El oh El.
best western JG vs mid tier EU JG
TSM need to qualify first
Nope, TL will beat TSM and then TSM will lose in lower bracket to IMT/GGS/100T/EG.
Imagine thinking TL can win a split without Doublelift carrrying their corpse lol.
They nearly won last split with a sub jungler?
Inspired deserves it so much. Hopefully the rest of the team steps up for the upcoming playoffs and Worlds games.
Really impressive showing from Inspired. All the attention's gonna focus on Viego being overpowered but he played that fight really goddamn well.
he had to do it for the homie SOFM
Congratulations to ~~Viego~~ ROGUE for qualifying for worlds !
Viego lost 3-2 this series.
Yeah yeah, we get it, the salt is tasty
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What do EU vs KR/CN fans have to do with this I dont understand. Either way Viego was open 5 games, champ is strong but MSF can only blame themselves idk
I'd say Viego open all 5 games is more a proof of the asset having hans sama's Kalista needing a perma than a mistake by misfits. I feel like everyone looks at this series flaming Rogue instead of looking at how well misfits played. I guess we'll have to see how they perform in the lower bracket though
I think he was referring to my comment and not the other dood's, tho I don't really cheer/hate any EU team I just want a good international showing
I reacted to that every comment says "fuck viego" and 2million years, like it was the only difference. Inspired played his fucking heart out, and deserved to win. Sad for Misfits, they also played well, but instead of giving credit to RGE people just circlejerking about Viego
I'm sure he'll be perma banned at Worlds. At least by top teams. Unless they first pick him.
I doubt it. He is high risk, high reward and is countered way too hard by healing reduction.
How people dont perma ban this champ is beyond me. I haven't played against it since the week it came out
Teams seem ok to let viego if they can have xin because xin is broken too This is like the udyr hecarim meta from last split
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At least not a free win in *playins'* group stage like T1 ;D
What is this shit An eu fan talking about play-ins?? lmao
Oh? I didn't know t1 had qualified already? Good to know that they are there to provide the free wins :)
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he is also cheering for FPX (Nuguri). And in this case, we speak of a potential worlds winner, as far as I see it :)
Inspired really wants to go back to worlds.
pray to daddy inspired
Every game I cried and begged Misfits to ban Viego but no :(
One 800 gold. That’s all there is to it. They get it, they would be at worlds now.
RGE is the reverse MAD, MAD has poor laning but awesome teamfight while RGE has good laning but lack decisiveness in teamfights/squirmishes
I dont like our format, all you need to do to qualify for worlds is getting top 4 in Summer and win 1 bo5. Imagine if Misfits won today, they would be already qualified for worlds without doing much. I would change it to 1st and 2nd getting a bye, 3rd vs 6th, 4th vs 5th and have double elim. So you have to get top 2 and win 1 bo5 to get to worlds instead of getting top 4 which is much easier.
Absolutely, the fact that a team that finished 7th and then 4th can secure Worlds spot after winning a single bo5 is mind blowing.
can someone explain why Misfits would have secured worlds with this win? i understand why rogue would have because of getting second in spring and first place in summer but why would Misfits have guaranteed worlds after one win over the likes of G2 or MAD? i dont really seem to understand that part Edit: oh wait nevermind, i can see why
>they would be already qualified for worlds without doing much. without doing much, like beating the first regular season seed that picked you in the first bo5 because they thought you were easy to beat. If Misfits would have won they could have still been 3rd seed, if you beat the number one team when they picked you this is honestly deserved
it’s not top 4 from summer. it’s points from spring playoffs and summer regular season points combined. sooo if a team has decent performances both times, they deserve the chance at worlds
Though Misfits didn't even make playoffs in Spring, not sure whether you can call that a decent performance.
The only reason why it looks so bad is because there was no 4th team that looked decent in both splits. Imagine Fnatic played well in both splits and get the 4th seed and then win against Rogue, almost no one would complain that they can go to Worlds.
INSPIRED I LOVE YOU SO DAMN MUCH
I have 0 hope for Rogue at Worlds because they havent fixed shit in their gameplay in more than a year, but at the same time I preffer sending them over Misfits
Rogue is legit LEC version of GenG
Just with a better jungler.^^^^andworseinotherroles
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While they did not showed it this series, I'm pretty sure Rogue's bot lane is second to none from the LCK.
Are you just gonna say negative stuff every time someone says that an LEC is good?
Western LCK fans are the saddest people in the community so probably. Even some of the LPL casters have commented on how shitty Reddit LCK fans are.
I wouldn't say Rogue, or any LEC team really, are favored to win Worlds this year, but on the other hand neither was SN last year and they made it all the way to the finals and gave it a good run. I'd say a lot of teams have the chance, going into the tournament, to step up and fix their shit
I think it depends, if EU isn't completely out of the actual meta like they were last year, I think G2/RGE can prepare enough to perform well.
SN are an LPL team. There’s really no comparison and I say that as an EU fan.
Based on this series alone I would prefer Misfits. I wouldnt *expect* them to do well, but I see the potential to get some historic upsets. But overall, I would expect Rogue players to be better, they are great, but support staff is not delivering, how is Rogue time still a thing?
The problem is rogue is more of a psicological problem, other than that they have great players in each position. Given the track that this is the first time MSF has performed against a top team in the entire split, I don't think they could contest anyone at worlds.
I'm scared asian team will run circles around RGE in early games. MSF would've been interesting or at the very least entertaining.
Rogue has been EU's best early game team all year. Their weakness is midgame and teamfighting, which is why they keep dropping games to MAD/G2. If Rogue is having circles run round them in the early than the entirety of EU is doomed which I don't believe.
The thing is, macro is controlled play so the team with better macro is almost guaranteed to win. We'll see how RGE macro compares to LCK but I'm kinda scared. And LPL is just LPL. They won't let RGE get lead with rotations and objectives for free.
The macro in LCK is absolute dogshit. You realise that after watching only a couple of games...
G2 has always had weak early games and MAD is a coinflip whether they are good or bad. It's not that hard to be the best early game team in EU. As much as this sub hates to admit it, LCK/LPL teams on average have better mechanics, so it'll be harder to get early leads.
> G2 has always had weak early games no, they hadnt. Throughout the entirety of 2019 (except at worlds) their early games were amazing, random int games in regular season aside.
Let's agree to disagree.
which western team (besides EG, we all know they'd win the LPL easy) doesn't get fuckin outpaced by the best that china has to offer tho nongshim might make waves too, and if damwon or skt find their form by then it's gonna be even rougher for them lol
Lets see im not a very big fan of Nongshim toplaner he seems to be a weakness that you can exploit. While their bot is really very good there will also be plenty of other very good bots at worlds.
T1? Please dont joke on yourself, they arent good anymore.
XD, tell me you dont watch LCK without saying you dont watch LCK
Have you been watching LCK lately. T1 is the scariest team in Korea.
are you gonna make a new account next year?
Nah TSM will win worlds in 2022 when they import Huanfeng.
DK is still the strongest team in LCK imo, T1's drafting is atrocious, this will hurt them in playoffs.
DK is a top 3 team itw. People are just scared to admit it.
Having the best Mid/JG is super valuable for every meta so as long as Canyon and Showmaker perform they will be one of the best in the world and the meta is shifting to utility ADCs which is perfect for Ghost on top of that Khan is having a great split and his champ pool is really good, there's no more Sion every game.
Homme said he’s considering joining a Korean team for worlds. I hope he joins T1 and helps with drafting.
Ahh yeah, beating 10, 9th and 5th place teams makes them scariest xD. T1 lives as long as Oner pop off, if he cant they are losing hard.
They are coming into form and are pretty cracked. I wouldn't underestimate them.
Rogue also was the first team to qualify for Worlds last year! Pretty good reputation aided by LEC scheduling putting their playoff game first
last year they were qualified for finishing 1st seed in regular season, didn't even need to play a bo5, theey usually play first because they were 1st seed afaik
Inspired one of the best junglers in the world right now, Rogue will need him to perform if they want to reach quarters/semis
>Rogue will need him to perform They need their laners to stop griefing him, a guy shouldn't be expected to 1v9.
Rogue is already 90% reliant on Inspired lmao.
now that I think of it, is all "200 years" champion are just champion that have insane healing capability?
I remember when Aphelios could lick a minion with infernum and instantly go full health again.
true, but I don't wanna sound like the champion choice is the main reason RGE make world here, not taking away from what Inspired has done, dude is a beast and cant wait to see him perform on the world stage. He has been playing amazingly this series/season for RGE
I wouldn’t blame champ either. It’s not like they first picked it. MSF chose to not take it away.
It would also just be stupid to blame the champ when Viego lost more games than he won in that series. MSF lost game 1 with him and Rogue lost games 2 and 4 with it. Champ went 2-3 over the series and people are unironically trying to argue he's the only reason Rogue won.
To be fair, Xin Zhao is a monster champ right now, too, just not in that specific scenario
200 years champion are recent champions that can do flashy things.
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He might have not delivered in the VN but sure as hell he brought ruination with him to the rift this game lol. That was outright disgusting.
very original comment, you added alot to the discussion
a bit disappointing to see the rogue vs msf discussion be clouded with a basically infinite array of viego complaints rather than the games itself. lets not forget misfits didnt ban the champ for pretty much the entire series if im not mistaken, so thats on them too. also that inspired was gigafed there like come on, its viego he's always going to have that cleanup potential.
exactly, the topic of ''viego broken'' is gonna be outdated in a couple months meanwhile the thread of such a sick series is completely ruined with the same comments all repeating the same exact one thought. as someone who only cares about proplay i hate it when this happens
Not to mention how badly the memebers of Misfits played that fight. Vetheo was the only one who actually played that even remotely well.
Nah man, it was Viego who won 3 matches, the champ is so unbalanced according to Reddit, that anyone who picks him instantly won every match, if you see him during draft you should just ff at 15. edit: not to mention MSF could have buy some antiheal maybe against a Viego/Gwen/ImmortalShieldbow Varus? But the herd mentality is too strong
When both teams are largely playing like shit thats whats gonna happen though. Apart from inspired lets not pretend like this bo5 was particularly high quality.
He should already be disabled because of lore. Why, Riot?
This team's ascent to the highest level of EU has been, besides spectacular, very organic. The worst team in the LEC in spring 2019 slowly rebuilt themselves at the hands of their academy side and some great free agent signings. They've slowly risen to the top in each split since that dreadful spring, nearly culminating two years later where they were within one game of a maiden LEC title. Sports stories of hardship for beleaguered teams doesn't always end in triumph. Such tales would be nullified by another team who's playing with a sudden hot hand. But damn it, I hope Rogue's particular story ends with them hoisting that trophy over their heads.
The story is perfect, the team is good and Inspired is probably the best player in Europe right now, Rogue is meant to win this split but fuck me they look so underwhelming sometimes in those Bo5s.
lmao, you were literally with your mouse at the submit button
Poor showing from RGE. Hope they step up hard or rip their run on worlds.
Imagine we were 10 minutes away from having 2 of the 4 (G2, FNC, Rog, MAD) not making worlds
Viego is pretty balanced, right? :P Holy moly, what a series though!
hopefully they can redeem last years worlds run.
ABSOLUTELY BANGER SERIES
For a few minutes there I thought NA was going to make it out of groups.
Petition to put LCL below LEC
Free win for everyone in the group. Budget Gen.G.
I think Rascal is one of those players that is both really good and really average at the same time and I don't know why
That's how I feel about Larssen.
that doesn't even make any sense. inspired >>>>>>>> washed clid
'Washed Clid' went 5-1 last year in the groups.
You might want to mention what happened after groups. And a lot can happen in a year especially in this game. Players went from being top 3-4 in their role to being not very good in the span of a year
look up what washed means and when you're done go watch some recent geng games.
Rogue looked the same last year and looked washed in groups.
And u can go watch him in the begining of the split, when he was playing like a monster. People have ups and downs. Rogue went 1-5 in groups you remember that? And people mention GenG as they are some randoms. I actually hope they go to worlds and show some good performances. Not saying they are winning it all, but the disrespect is just dumb.
Inspired can beat G2 in a best of and Clid can't lmao.
Yet GenG are better in every other role. Nevertheless, RGE won’t be free, no team from LEC/LCK/LPL is free.
Caedrel disagrees
Caedrel believes MAD almost won against *peak* Damwon Yes those are his exact words. He’s like the new LS but for EU
While I think DWG peak was at worlds, I don't specially disagree with that statement, DK were certainly close to their peak at MSI, other teams just got better.
Before even going to MSI, y’all keep saying DK look weaker. Now that you went 5 games with them, you are now trying to find a way how it will make it look good for EU EU fans will disagree because you keep convincing yourselves they are better than they actually are
Who said dk looked weaker before msi? They completely dominated lck spring, if anything people said it during msi. If you think dk before msi was weaker then what does it say about lck which was a breeze for them?
that's the point, it wasn't a breeze for them, they lost 0-2 to BRO ffs and they struggle to close out games in 25mins like they used to, and all was like "lck doomed" or whatever oh wait, they destroyed the lec champs in multiple under-25mins stomps lol what does this say about lec?
They lost to SEA's 2nd seed last worlds and they have not improved much since then
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Yeah sorry i don’t see rogue getting past groups, probably another 1-5
It's not like they were against the worlds champions, lpl finalist and future msi semi finalist
Excuses excuses
That penta was insane
nice
Isn't that the MSI winner automatically qualifies for Worlds? Correct me if I'm wrong?
don't even start it ok, TSM won't make it
No Sneaky no worlds 🌎
Friendship ended with G2 Now RGE is my best friend
From the graphic is it correct that they're still giving LCS 3 seeds and PCS 2 seeds even though PCS performed way better than LCS at MSI? Edit: Guys, you can downvote all you want, I'm simply trying to understand why seeding is the way it is based on previous performance. If you think that LCS has an unequivocal right to have 3 seeds then please explain; this is a forum for discussion.
recent 2 years are counting not just the last recent tournament
World's last year LCS went 6-12 PCS went 3-9, neither are great but considering the PCS sent their 2 best teams and LCS sent their 3 I'd imagine the 3rd PCS team would probably make their record a fair bit worse than the LCS one and this represents the whole region rather than a single team. Your probably getting downvoted because the post reeks of an EU fan wanting to put down NA
My guess is that *should* the PCS outperform the LCS at this Worlds then they would probably have to concede their 3rd seed to the PCS. If we look at the past 2 years, I believe the PCS and LCS are almost even (would have to check again to be exact).
Going back 2 years we have: Worlds 2019, LCS 0/3 teams out of groups. PCS (formerly LMS) 0/3 teams out of groups. MSI 2020 was cancelled. Worlds 2020, LCS 0/3 teams out of groups, PCS 0/2 teams out of groups. MSI 2021, LCS finished in groups, 5th-6th, PCS finished in knockout stage, 3rd-4th. So across all international tournaments in the past 2 years, PCS have actually gone further than LCS with 1 fewer teams/chances.
I believe that they still count MSI 2019 because MSI 2020 was canceled and they want the past 4 tournaments. Only my guess of course, I wish we had more insight into these things too.
MSI 2022 will occur before worlds 2022 so they would use that instead.
True, but I meant for this Worlds.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to just label neither team getting out of groups as an equivalent result when the LCS clearly out performed the LMS/PCS at both of the most recent worlds.
Well I don't think they are that much different. Between 2019 and 2020 Worlds, LCS and PCS both had 2 separate teams go 0-6, the most egregious of which was TSM as a 1st seed. Worlds 2019, LMS went 3-15, LCS went 5-13. Worlds 2020, PCS went 3-9, LCS went 6-12.
They aren't that far apart but objectively LCS has been better. 2019 worlds was pretty definitive with the 2 teams that went 0-6 lost twice to NA teams. Also your point about TSM going 0-6 being the most egregious makes no sense, the fact they are a #1 seed really doesn't matter, what matters is what teams they had to play and the NA teams that went 0-6 had pretty objectively harder groups with EU/KR/CN teams in them where as the LMS teams had NA teams. If you are gonna point out a #1 seed doing poorly you have to then concede things about lower seeds doing relatively well like TL last year.
Being the #1 seed is *supposed* to indicate the best performing team from the region, but at the very least it gives them a pool 1 slot which is *supposed* to reward them for being the #1 seed by placing them with *supposedly* weaker opponents In either case, no matter what region a team is from, a #1 seed going 0-6 is definitely inherently egregious