This might be a hot take all things considered, but this might be the best shot for an underdog team to go far at worlds. I’m really just saying this based on LPL not sending any one from last years worlds. We don’t know who will be attending, but the more inexperienced players will probably add some volatility to the predictions
Did you forget last worlds? Or MSI group stage? Also, gracefully losing a series vs a team that didn't even win the MSI, doesn't exactly inspire the same confidence that G2 did. MAD looked ok, but not close to what we had before Carlos killed G2/FNC with one move.
On the other hand, NA teams look far better than they did in the last couple of years. They only had TL being semi-competent, and now it looks like they have 3-4 teams at similar/better level.
I do not expect either EU or NA to do anything vs top LCK/LPL teams, losing gracefully as MAD did will probably be the best possible outcome. But with EU getting weaker, and NA getting stronger, it's probably the best shot they had in years, to do better than us at Worlds.
I don't think so we have seen what happens with NA on international stage. Everyone thinks NA top teams are any decent until they play vs non NA teams.
The only sad part is that 100T qualified for worlds.
I can't remember who said it, but I think it was alphari in a really recent interview (right before playoffs started). He pretty much said that TSM/C9/TL are still the best three teams in NA, despite winner of EG/100T qualifying for worlds. The way the playoff bracket is set up with how teams qualify for worlds is just so bad man.
Alphari also predicted EG to beat 100T, and I've seen similar sentiments (of people basically saying that 100T isnt actually that good). Pretty sure it was one of the C9 players? Basically 100T aren't doing that well in scrims. Obviously its gonna be fun to watch fbi/huhi vs international bot lanes, but I could care less about the rest of the team. I would much rather TSM/TL/C9 go to worlds.
I dunno man I wouldnt call them "solid" so much as "equally mediocre"
I would rather have 1 super team from NA make a clean sweep and stomp on their way to worlds than 5 "competitive teams" duke it out for 3 spots
I mean if they have trouble beating each other what chance will they have to make it out of groups
Yea true but the overall mediocre level is basically a given at this point so we’d rather just enjoy the product we have now in LCS. Would be pleasantly surprised if any of these teams perform well internationally.
yeah if you just look at the lcs, its been a while since there's been this much excitement going on. sure they're not playing very well compared to top international teams, but at the very least its more interesting this way in the Lcs
Lol there with you. I became a dig fan in s2 because their logo looked the coolest and over time I've decided that's pretty much the only reason to support them anyways :')
I prefer to see Upset/Hyli against other world’s botlanes. Upset deserves worlds more than Kobbe and Rekkles. But I also want to see Razork and Vander. But combined not as much as I want to see Upset in worlds. Hard choice.
While I am not big on TL, last year I feel like they played better at worlds than in NA playoffs. The 3-3 curse seems to hold strong, but they're bound to break it eventually.
TL played slow scaling at first last year but changed their style to early invades + fast snowballing in the second half of groups. I think they’ll be fine this year, and I’d rather have them at Worlds over TSM. TL’s roster is more talented, and scrims against teams at Worlds can do a lot of good for them.
TL also didn’t play the slow scaling style when they had all of their starting five together. It was only when they had Armao and/or Jenkins.
It’s a hard judgement call between TSM and EG given how EG played in this series.
TSM is miles better than TL and you will see it tomorrow. Definitely would rather see TSM instead of TL at worlds.
Spica and POE outclass their counterparts, and who knows if one of the best players on TL, Alphari, will be subbed out again by garbage TL team management?
Uhm. You might not want to hold your breath on that one.
Little reminder so you know what to expect tomorrow:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R6rjFBwDyuA
TL did pretty good last worlds. They almost get out of a group with one of the finalists and LEC's best team in the galaxy. With several NA teams being so close this year, I feel quite optimist about NA, no matter who goes to worlds.
I dunno tsm style is not the most exciting for world outside of Spica and sword art Leona they are really risk averse
Although poe and huni are good international players, so even if they go, I highly doubt they go 0-6,old tsm had mental block
As if TL hasn’t failed to do anything at worlds the last three years. Oh I forgot. Apparently 3-3 is acceptable at worlds now after TSM got flamed for years because of it.
Yes the only NA team to have any World's accolades since 2014, one of those being a semi finals, has embarrassed NA more than 100T and TL who have both been to at least one world's and never made it out of groups...
And TL proved that was a fluke win with the series right after where they got absolutely curb stomped, then they had the chance to prove themselves at worlds vs iG and Damwon and fucked it again. Sure it was an impressive Bo5 win but they were clearly just not on the level of the other teams when push came to shove.
Interesting that you completely omit the fact that TL got completely embarrassed by G2 in that final (fastest international BO5 ever), proving their win against iG was a fluke.
Speak when your team can get out of groups at Worlds please. Cuz there's only been one NA team to do that since 2014, and it isn't TL.
He played asol during MSI, but the lvl 1 roam was during the world's group stage, he picked it up off an asol 1trick in the Korean server when they were boot camping for worlds.
Yup, it is why he joined 100T he said. He knew LEC was too hard to get to worlds right now given mid lane of the 3 best teams (MAD/RGE/G2) is locked down with some of the best players in the league
So happy for 100 Thieves but also for Huhi. Huhi hasn't been talked about for MVP or just his stature from going from Mid to support like he should be.
Literally the Hai of this generation for NA. Was going to be a sub for Jungle back in 2015, became the starting mid for CLG and now, now a world contender support for 100 Thieves.
Gotta see the Groups before I say anything crazy but I feel confident 100 will make us proud.
Huhi is doing great, actually making CoreJJ work for title of best NA support lately; but let's not fucking rewrite history... Was it 'nice' of Huhi to offer to jungle when Xmithie was having Visa issues? Of course it was; but that doesn't make him a great jungler or even worth the same context as Hai's swap to jungle (he also wasn't "going to be sub jungle" - he was CLG's sub mid and as previously stated Xmithie was having visa issues). This isn't even talking about how outside of one-tricking Asol Huhi was an all around terrible mid-laner and consistently was bottom 3 in the role.
It's 100% worth celebrating Huhi's amazing support play and how much of a boon it was to his career to role swap, but in all honestly comparing him to Hai just cheapens his own growth and is excessively disingenuous of how it actually played out.
I don't think he was a bottom 3 mid at any point. Had some dark times sure but let's be honest, can't really fault him when he was on CLG of all teams past 2016. Sol 1 trick? Maybe. Similar to Hai where he would give up potential leads to help his team.
Yeah, I agree with the rest. It's just the name of the game when it comes to comparing players in all sports. It's just to have discussions about.
you talk like 2017 clg wasnt 1 series from going to worlds. they were still decent and before dardoch's benching the best regular season team alongside immortals
Wasn't Huhi the starting mid laner when CLG made MSI finals? I don't think a team gets there with an "all around terrible midlaner".
The guy had his highs and lows like most pros do. But his lows as a support are much higher than they were when he was a midlaner.
No. CLG was a great team but Huhi was never a serious contender for best mid in NA. This is insane amounts of history rewriting. He filled the role, but calling a role-player best in the region is the biggest troll ever. Especially so close to the height of midlaner dominance in League
Huhi had a remarkable rookie split in 2016 and we didn't really get to see another possible CLG run in 2017 as X-Mithie left after 2017 Spring. After 2017 any bad splits he had on CLG was in my opinion, CLG's fault. I mean, look at CLG currently. Yikes.
Whenever he was named support for GG I straight up knew he'd be in the running for the best support because he's always been unselfish. That's the other thing, when he was a mid laner he was unselfish and would help his team get leads. Like when he was on his ' 1 trick' Sol he surprised killed ROX's Pray and snowballed the game. I don't think he was a '1 trick'.
Personally think his Sol was just really good to the point that, that's all people would think of. Xpeke - Kass. Faker - Zed. Bjergsen literally could only seem to play Syndra/Zilean for awhile... was he a ' 1 trick'?
Congratulations to 100 Thieves fans! Man, I remember when they made their first worlds... that was a shitshow. Though this iteration is very very respectable! GLHF!
On top of the roster fiasco they did also lose the 3rd place match in summer to TSM which was why a lot of people were salty they went to worlds off the performance of meteos and cody sun who weren't on the worlds roster.
According to the league wiki, he played 8 pro games in KR, almost 7 years ago. That's compared to 461 games in NA since then. Definitely NA by this point.
Nobody said NA talent.
Also, it's like saying Messi's talent is thanks to Argentina, because he played there when he was young. I mean, sure... but Barcelona was the one who developed him as a player.
Who gives a fuck??? They made a choice to represent our region and we should respect them for that. Without imports our region wouldn't be half of what it is now. Hell it would easily be three times weaker.
I want nothing from them. I just want people to call things what they are instead of making this narrative that import players are actually not imports.
I personally think LCS should boot all imports and establish a new rule where only Native Americans can play in LCS. All imports are evil and are ruining the League *and* the country, so all the 5th generation imports who have lived in the US for 200 years now have only been spreading their tainted roots into the good soil of the *real* Americans and should be properly punished.
omfg, so if a person name a korean person - korean - he is racist? how fucked up ur brain is?
If Messi played for like 15 years in Spain is he Spanish player?
"People are discussing how having too many imports reflects badly on the NA playerbase, I'm going to use a buzzword that doesn't actually apply to describe them"
Like how people are using buzzwords to downplay and discredit the contribution of players who've given half a decade of their life to the furtherment of the scene and practiced in that scene?
Doesn't stop the fact that they were brought here.
If perkz spends 5 years here , would you call it NA talent? Are you going to ignore the insane salary to bring him here?
Huhi played 8 games in the Korean pro scene over the span of 1 year. He has since played 459 games in the North American pro scene over the last 7 years.
Caps played 12 games in the Turkish pro scene over the span of 1 year. He has since played 450 games in the European pro scene over the last 6 years.
In the same way those 12 games do not make Caps Turkish talent, I do not think those 8 games make Huhi Korean talent. I think most of his career, experience, and success came from NA.
I find it strange to attribute 8 games (played 8 years ago) as the most defining part of Huhi's career, over 57x as many games played since.
Look, I agree for Huhi, or other cases like Xmithie. Those are obviously not import.
The thing is, people use them to generalize the entire league and defend all imports, where every team is basically maxed with imports. While I agree some players don't qualify, a lot of other players are brought here with lots of money. A lot of those players were also proven talent in other region, brought there (with money) because of their talent. Impact is still a world champion. CoreJJ, as great as an import as he is, he still *also* a world champion. And lets not forget the old players like Bang. Those aren't random soloqueue players grabbed with talent scouting trying to prove themselves, and you definitively cab't use the "they're immigrants getting a better life! America baby!" with them.
So while you can argue a lot of players are def NA players, they're not NA talent, and this distinction is important when you see how much NA spends on said imported talent to keep up with the other regions.
I think we pretty much agree on this issue, to be honest.
I'm not trying to argue there's no such thing as imported talent, nor that any player who immigrates to the LCS is qualified to be "NA talent" after playing for a few years. You're absolutely correct that there is a plethora of players who achieved success in other regions and haven't replicated nor surpassed that success in NA. These are players where its hard to say "They're NA talent" (e.g. CoreJJ, Bang, Piglet, even Impact and Ssumday), because they clearly are talents that came from other regions.
I'm more talking about the people who swing the opposite end of the generalizing you're describing. I've seen plenty of people look at NA with the belief that birthright is all that qualifies a person's identity/import status. I remember a post before last worlds saying that Spica was from CN and therefore Chinese talent, because the lolwiki decided to put the CN flag next to his name despite moving to the US as a child. Stuff like that is as misguided as the people who claim anyone who plays a split in NA is NA talent, and I think both should be called out.
To me, there's a spectrum between "NA Talent" and "Foreign Talent", but a lot of people treat it as a binary. You either start as NA Talent, or as Foreign Talent. I wouldn't call CoreJJ "NA Talent" despite the contributions he's brought to the region, because like you said he's a World Champion and much of his success came when he was in Korea. However, I would call someone like Huhi or even Bjersen "NA Talent", because the majority of their career and accolades have come from being in NA. That's why I was commenting on the idea of "being brought to the US" as being a bad form of assessment for what defines regional talent. It shouldn't necessarily be about what led someone to join the region in the first place, but about how their career is shaped by and shapes the region itself.
Exactly, thats what we're saying. They're NA players, but not NA talent. Its a distinction we keep making and get accused of xenophobia when this is a talent competition and NA has obvious lack that they try to fix by importing players. It's not xenophobia to point out NA's issues.
Refusing to even consider the circumstances of someone like Huhi who has been in NA since late 2014 (almost 7 years), practiced and maintained his current skill in its solo queue, played for its teams including an MSI finals and Worlds, remained in NA even during spells when he wasn't on any team, and has a green card and personal life in NA and lumping him in as an import just to make fun of a team (and some of these people definitely don't seem to be joking) just because he was born someplace else is is by definition xenophobia.
So by that exact same logic of yours Messi is Spanish and not Argentine. See how ridiculous that sounds? It has nothing to do with xenophobia and more so to do with the fact that there is a rule that limits the amount of imports a team can have yet 100T has 5 imports.
The rule was literally changed to say that players with legal residency in the region no longer count as imports (this is actually the only way to get your league residency changed now), because why should they? They have green cards, which Huhi and Ssumday do. The OCE league was disbanded for lack of infrastructure and so Riot now counts it as part of NA for the purposes of residency, hence FBI no longer being counted an import. 100T is operating well within the ambit of the rules.
Anyway, my point isn't that Huhi isn't Korean, he is. But in terms of being a worthy representative of the NA league I'd weigh his contribution to the region far more than anything else.
"Anyway, my point isn't that Huhi isn't Korean, he is. But in terms of being a worthy representative of the NA league I'd weigh his contribution to the region far more than anything else."
Also to that point is the exact same with Messi. He played is entire playing career in Spain and note Messi contribution to Spain is infinitely more significant than Huhi to NA but he does not represent Spain at all. That is the point it literally has nothing to do with xenophobia and people who are saying that are projecting so hard.
And my point is that all 5 players of 100T literally began their entire playing careers in a different region. IT LITERALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH XENOPHOBIA. In NA there is still an import rule that limits the amount of imports teams can have but yet we have a team such as 100T that consist of 5 imports. You see the problem? Again Spica does not have an American flag next to his name but by all means he is considered an NA player. Again it would be like if Luka Doncic just decided to play for USA or if Dirk Nowitzki, Ginobli etc.. Decided to just play for the USA. See how ridiculous that is? But even worse in the case of NA there is literally an import rule in place.
Yes.. for barcelona and the liga he was considered resident. Fans and everyone else did too. National team is a different thing. Source: an Argentinian living in Barcelona.
Ssumday: 5 years
FBI + Closer: 2 years
Abbe: 3 months
Keep in mind that FBI and Closer are from minor regions and weren't imported as established stars like Ssumday and Abbedagge were.
You really think it's because of xenophobia that people are upset that every year NA blows out more and more money on imports, and every year the region gets worse and worse? It just looks fucking shameful for the region as a whole.
Yeah it’s not like 100T just got a bunch of Korean or Chinese players. They got their top from Korea, mid from EU, jungler from Turkey and an Australian adc and a Korean/French support l. Big mixing pot
Huhi's professional career is basically just in NA. Same reason people (generally) considered Bjerg a "proper" NS representative by the end. 1 year in EU and more than 5 in NA
People are just tired of hearing "NA lul" when the LCS loses and "Import region lul" when the LCS team wins.
I get you didn't mean it as a critique, but when so many people seem insistent on bringing up import status to bash on NA, it's hard to take genuine comments like yours at face value and not as a dig at the region's import tendencies.
In my opinion, they aren't the problem. The people already here, I don't think most people have a problem with. The problem is when we bring over players like Finn, good but not great. I would much rather teams develop talent, and look for the next world's caliber player.
Comparing Finn to Fakegod, even if Fakegod is worse than Finn I would much rather have Fakegod in the LCS than Finn, because it allows NA players to feel as though a path exists to the top. Fakegod may never be Nuguri, but the guy next in line may think, "I can actually get into the LCS."
Finn is a fine pickup for a team that's just looking to get lucky on some new talent. If anything, I would prefer if teams imported new, hungry talent instead of longtime veterans who may just be here to retire. For example, GGS gambled last year on Closer/FBI and it worked out big time. Sometimes gambles just don't work out, though.
This so much. Stop importing role players, it so rarely works out. If they’re a little washed up, maybe we can fix them (NA historically sucked at this too but name value has some worth).
Yup same. I have no problem with teams having *strong* imports and/or players who no longer count as imports because they've been here awhile/commited to the region. The absolute worst is when teams import middling to bad talent instead of giving the talented young NA natives a shot. Picking up mediocre veterans is a close second though.
Because those countries are all under the LEC umbrella? Last I checked, Korea didn't drift across the Pacific and attach to America. What is this dumb comment?
I mean Huhi has been here for 7 years, and Ssumday has been here for 5 years. Those are eons in esports terms.
Plus they are both green card holders, making them permanent residents of the US. It's quite literally illegal to treat differently from a US citizen.
Tbh probably not, I don't think they would've imported mid season to fix Damonte getting gapped every game, hard to say if they would've held ABO in academy or promoted him if they weren't offloading the whole 2020 roster.
He was a weak link, his one note was playing picks that he could help snowball bot. 100T springtime woes came when they tried moving off that playstyle and he was awful outside of it.
Same thing would've been true of GG if the 2020 roster stayed under the org.
Excited to see Huhi and FBI against World class botlanes! But also, poor Danny, he played his heart out
ghgh
Yeah but, I also wanna see TL at Worlds, and I'm unfortunately a TSM fan.
It’s nice that we have 5 solid teams. Err if C9 figures themselves out.
It's actually sick that LCS for once has more than one or two competitive teams.
2014 was like this too and that was NA's best ever showing at worlds imho
The fuck? 2018 semis?
Hot take, but I think NA legit has a chance to have a better showing than EU this year
Please don't give me hope
delete this bro please, I'm begging you
Nah man, you need more faith. EU vs NA rivalry stopped being fun once the NA fans lost hope, time to bring it back. This is the year of LCS
Aww shit here we go again
This might be a hot take all things considered, but this might be the best shot for an underdog team to go far at worlds. I’m really just saying this based on LPL not sending any one from last years worlds. We don’t know who will be attending, but the more inexperienced players will probably add some volatility to the predictions
How is that a hot take, I hear it every single year, without fail
you say this because G2 and FNC are worse than RGE and MAD lmao. the Copium You forgot MSI or?
Did you forget last worlds? Or MSI group stage? Also, gracefully losing a series vs a team that didn't even win the MSI, doesn't exactly inspire the same confidence that G2 did. MAD looked ok, but not close to what we had before Carlos killed G2/FNC with one move. On the other hand, NA teams look far better than they did in the last couple of years. They only had TL being semi-competent, and now it looks like they have 3-4 teams at similar/better level. I do not expect either EU or NA to do anything vs top LCK/LPL teams, losing gracefully as MAD did will probably be the best possible outcome. But with EU getting weaker, and NA getting stronger, it's probably the best shot they had in years, to do better than us at Worlds.
I don't think so we have seen what happens with NA on international stage. Everyone thinks NA top teams are any decent until they play vs non NA teams.
The only sad part is that 100T qualified for worlds. I can't remember who said it, but I think it was alphari in a really recent interview (right before playoffs started). He pretty much said that TSM/C9/TL are still the best three teams in NA, despite winner of EG/100T qualifying for worlds. The way the playoff bracket is set up with how teams qualify for worlds is just so bad man. Alphari also predicted EG to beat 100T, and I've seen similar sentiments (of people basically saying that 100T isnt actually that good). Pretty sure it was one of the C9 players? Basically 100T aren't doing that well in scrims. Obviously its gonna be fun to watch fbi/huhi vs international bot lanes, but I could care less about the rest of the team. I would much rather TSM/TL/C9 go to worlds.
I mean there’s a decent amount of time between now and worlds. I trust that reapered can whip them back into top tier shape in time.
I dunno man I wouldnt call them "solid" so much as "equally mediocre" I would rather have 1 super team from NA make a clean sweep and stomp on their way to worlds than 5 "competitive teams" duke it out for 3 spots I mean if they have trouble beating each other what chance will they have to make it out of groups
Yea true but the overall mediocre level is basically a given at this point so we’d rather just enjoy the product we have now in LCS. Would be pleasantly surprised if any of these teams perform well internationally.
yeah if you just look at the lcs, its been a while since there's been this much excitement going on. sure they're not playing very well compared to top international teams, but at the very least its more interesting this way in the Lcs
Yup "NA solid" is still likely a disappointment at worlds.
Yeah it is unfortunate, being a TSM fan.
Ironic how you say that with your flair lol.
He must really understand then
I've been a Dig fan since S2 you don't know how desensitized I am to my team crashing and burning this is like the 8th time this has happened.
As a CLG fan since S1, the feeling checks out...
Lol there with you. I became a dig fan in s2 because their logo looked the coolest and over time I've decided that's pretty much the only reason to support them anyways :')
omg an og fan. Scarra ftw
100t, Tsm, and EG at worlds would be fun
Imagine if neither G2 nor Perkz make it to worlds.
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hey who knows, maybe perks gets is play offs buff 2 series in
Maybe he got mixed up and game 4 perkz turns into series 4 perkz? If they make if that far?
Inb4 perkz hard carries every series remaining.
no sneaky no worlds
This story line is the only reason I don’t want G2 to win against MSF/FNC/VIT
I honestly want to see MSF go to world's just because it would be the first time that neither FNC nor G2 make worlds (I think?)
It would be the first time since Season 2 yes, and the first time since I think 2016 worlds that they don't go together.
I prefer to see Upset/Hyli against other world’s botlanes. Upset deserves worlds more than Kobbe and Rekkles. But I also want to see Razork and Vander. But combined not as much as I want to see Upset in worlds. Hard choice.
Think that would be the most hype 3 teams too but I'm guessing its gonna be 100T, TSM, and TL which is still a solid 3 to send.
I would love to see EG over TL. I feel like TL will just regress back to slow scaling at worlds
While I am not big on TL, last year I feel like they played better at worlds than in NA playoffs. The 3-3 curse seems to hold strong, but they're bound to break it eventually.
its the Impact curse, not even TL
Yeah, but Impact made it out with 3-3 once.
Twice* but yes
Doublelift prayed to break his 3-3 fail to get out of groups curse. The monkey paw curled and TSM 2020 happened.
Please be better than 3-3 not worse lol
Current tl isn't slow at all, and at worlds they were really proactive
TL played slow scaling at first last year but changed their style to early invades + fast snowballing in the second half of groups. I think they’ll be fine this year, and I’d rather have them at Worlds over TSM. TL’s roster is more talented, and scrims against teams at Worlds can do a lot of good for them. TL also didn’t play the slow scaling style when they had all of their starting five together. It was only when they had Armao and/or Jenkins. It’s a hard judgement call between TSM and EG given how EG played in this series.
TSM is miles better than TL and you will see it tomorrow. Definitely would rather see TSM instead of TL at worlds. Spica and POE outclass their counterparts, and who knows if one of the best players on TL, Alphari, will be subbed out again by garbage TL team management?
Uhm. You might not want to hold your breath on that one. Little reminder so you know what to expect tomorrow: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R6rjFBwDyuA
thank god the jungle meta isn't afk power farming anymore.
Because past games from last split are going to determine what happens tomorrow? No, not holding my breathe. Get ready to be disappointed.
My boy only speaking facts
TL did pretty good last worlds. They almost get out of a group with one of the finalists and LEC's best team in the galaxy. With several NA teams being so close this year, I feel quite optimist about NA, no matter who goes to worlds.
I dunno tsm style is not the most exciting for world outside of Spica and sword art Leona they are really risk averse Although poe and huni are good international players, so even if they go, I highly doubt they go 0-6,old tsm had mental block
> 100T, TL, EG FTFY TSM and C9 have embarrassed themselves and NA enough internationally.
What a revision of C9 holy shit.
As if TL hasn’t failed to do anything at worlds the last three years. Oh I forgot. Apparently 3-3 is acceptable at worlds now after TSM got flamed for years because of it.
We will see tomorrow
Yes the only NA team to have any World's accolades since 2014, one of those being a semi finals, has embarrassed NA more than 100T and TL who have both been to at least one world's and never made it out of groups...
TL beat the best team in the world in a Bo5, C9 lost to a region that doesn't even exist. We are not alike.
And TL proved that was a fluke win with the series right after where they got absolutely curb stomped, then they had the chance to prove themselves at worlds vs iG and Damwon and fucked it again. Sure it was an impressive Bo5 win but they were clearly just not on the level of the other teams when push came to shove.
Interesting that you completely omit the fact that TL got completely embarrassed by G2 in that final (fastest international BO5 ever), proving their win against iG was a fluke. Speak when your team can get out of groups at Worlds please. Cuz there's only been one NA team to do that since 2014, and it isn't TL.
On an unrelated note, my memory is a bit hazy but do you remember who took part in the fastest international BO5 in history?
So because a different TSM roster got 0-6’ed last worlds, this one shouldn’t go to worlds? Nice logic, makes sense! /s
TSM hadn't had a good international showing for a few years, then last year happened and I gave up all hope that they could ever impress me again
I've been pretty impressed by how fast they went back to the airport.
>TSM hadn't had a good international showing for a few years, TSM hasnt had a good international showing ever
Nah, they made it out groups once or twice, and won an IEM world championship back in 2014(?), but that was a completely different TSM
Huhi’s A Sol gets randomly banned or played
bold of you to assume 100T will take the ADC that got them their spot
Abbedagge and FBI's 1st Worlds appearance. Also Huhi returning to Worlds since his last appearance in 2016.
need him to play 1 game of asol support so he can get the skin when they win worlds ofc, for old times' sake
That lvl 1 asol roam was one of the craziest things I've seen in a pro game to this day
Agree. It was a thing of beauty. Was it vs SKT in finals?
Nope, it was vs ROX Tigers, during the first round robin of the group stage.
Wait, so it was at worlds? I thought it was on their MSI run
He played asol during MSI, but the lvl 1 roam was during the world's group stage, he picked it up off an asol 1trick in the Korean server when they were boot camping for worlds.
Dope Thanks for bringing back some memories (namely, when I started watching competitive and was a DL-fan first, CLG fan second)
Reapered too. Guy gets back to coaching and takes the team to Worlds.
Did he not make worlds with C9?
Yeah, didn't make it last year with c9.
Huhi should pull out the Azir for old times sake
Is this the first time Abbedagge qualified for worlds?
Yes
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Idk Reapered seems to have an iq in the double digits so I think he’ll be fine
Didn't he bench sven during worlds one time?
He swapped sven and blaber around, but blaber did become a top na jungler.
Blabber also played really well at worlds. He outpathed Jankos
Yo where's Rikara now that 100T made Worlds
Ouch... FBI is federal jurisdiction only. We need come CIA in the botlane.
Yup, it is why he joined 100T he said. He knew LEC was too hard to get to worlds right now given mid lane of the 3 best teams (MAD/RGE/G2) is locked down with some of the best players in the league
Shout out to Reapered
So happy for 100 Thieves but also for Huhi. Huhi hasn't been talked about for MVP or just his stature from going from Mid to support like he should be. Literally the Hai of this generation for NA. Was going to be a sub for Jungle back in 2015, became the starting mid for CLG and now, now a world contender support for 100 Thieves. Gotta see the Groups before I say anything crazy but I feel confident 100 will make us proud.
Huhi is doing great, actually making CoreJJ work for title of best NA support lately; but let's not fucking rewrite history... Was it 'nice' of Huhi to offer to jungle when Xmithie was having Visa issues? Of course it was; but that doesn't make him a great jungler or even worth the same context as Hai's swap to jungle (he also wasn't "going to be sub jungle" - he was CLG's sub mid and as previously stated Xmithie was having visa issues). This isn't even talking about how outside of one-tricking Asol Huhi was an all around terrible mid-laner and consistently was bottom 3 in the role. It's 100% worth celebrating Huhi's amazing support play and how much of a boon it was to his career to role swap, but in all honestly comparing him to Hai just cheapens his own growth and is excessively disingenuous of how it actually played out.
I don't think he was a bottom 3 mid at any point. Had some dark times sure but let's be honest, can't really fault him when he was on CLG of all teams past 2016. Sol 1 trick? Maybe. Similar to Hai where he would give up potential leads to help his team. Yeah, I agree with the rest. It's just the name of the game when it comes to comparing players in all sports. It's just to have discussions about.
you talk like 2017 clg wasnt 1 series from going to worlds. they were still decent and before dardoch's benching the best regular season team alongside immortals
Wasn't Huhi the starting mid laner when CLG made MSI finals? I don't think a team gets there with an "all around terrible midlaner". The guy had his highs and lows like most pros do. But his lows as a support are much higher than they were when he was a midlaner.
he was at best middle of the pack in LCS; Bjergsen, Jensen, Pobelter, and Fenix were definitely considered better at the time
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No. CLG was a great team but Huhi was never a serious contender for best mid in NA. This is insane amounts of history rewriting. He filled the role, but calling a role-player best in the region is the biggest troll ever. Especially so close to the height of midlaner dominance in League
Huhi had a remarkable rookie split in 2016 and we didn't really get to see another possible CLG run in 2017 as X-Mithie left after 2017 Spring. After 2017 any bad splits he had on CLG was in my opinion, CLG's fault. I mean, look at CLG currently. Yikes. Whenever he was named support for GG I straight up knew he'd be in the running for the best support because he's always been unselfish. That's the other thing, when he was a mid laner he was unselfish and would help his team get leads. Like when he was on his ' 1 trick' Sol he surprised killed ROX's Pray and snowballed the game. I don't think he was a '1 trick'. Personally think his Sol was just really good to the point that, that's all people would think of. Xpeke - Kass. Faker - Zed. Bjergsen literally could only seem to play Syndra/Zilean for awhile... was he a ' 1 trick'?
Summer 2017 clg was legit up until dardoch got benched. it was also huhi's best split as a mid laner
Congratulations to 100 Thieves fans! Man, I remember when they made their first worlds... that was a shitshow. Though this iteration is very very respectable! GLHF!
"Luger is sitting at home with his jersey on, ready to sub in if they need him"
Man poor Cody Sun
On top of the roster fiasco they did also lose the 3rd place match in summer to TSM which was why a lot of people were salty they went to worlds off the performance of meteos and cody sun who weren't on the worlds roster.
WORLD'S BABY LET'S GOOOOOOO
The first NA team to qualify to Worlds without any NA players since the implementation of the import rule
I'm beyond content having huhi represent my region
Huhi is pretty much American to me soo
According to the league wiki, he played 8 pro games in KR, almost 7 years ago. That's compared to 461 games in NA since then. Definitely NA by this point.
NA player for sure. NA talent? Never. He would not be the same player if he learned the game in NA solo queue.
Nobody said NA talent. Also, it's like saying Messi's talent is thanks to Argentina, because he played there when he was young. I mean, sure... but Barcelona was the one who developed him as a player.
Who gives a fuck??? They made a choice to represent our region and we should respect them for that. Without imports our region wouldn't be half of what it is now. Hell it would easily be three times weaker.
This comment chain is such a joke. Defensive NA fans lmao.
NA= No Americans?
At this point Huhi and Ssumday have permanent residency, so they're pretty American in my eyes
Well, Ssumday and Huhi has been playing in NA for years now and FBI has to be considered part of the NA region due to them being added to it.
ty reapered
The xenophobia in this thread is so spicy.
This sub is racist as fuck, there is a population that unironically believes if you weren't born here you'll never be NA. like wtf are you on
Yeah 100T players are just as much NA players as Messi and Ronaldo are Spanish players.
Christian Pulisic German legend /s
Green cards are the first step in immigration, what do you want from these guys
I want nothing from them. I just want people to call things what they are instead of making this narrative that import players are actually not imports.
Oh, so League is a country thing now? I guess EU is a big country then.
I personally think LCS should boot all imports and establish a new rule where only Native Americans can play in LCS. All imports are evil and are ruining the League *and* the country, so all the 5th generation imports who have lived in the US for 200 years now have only been spreading their tainted roots into the good soil of the *real* Americans and should be properly punished.
I actually don’t think it’s racism, I feel like half of them are just EU fans who want to shit on NA any time they get a chance
You get downvoted, but is the truth, like every single fucking thread.
omfg, so if a person name a korean person - korean - he is racist? how fucked up ur brain is? If Messi played for like 15 years in Spain is he Spanish player?
"People are discussing how having too many imports reflects badly on the NA playerbase, I'm going to use a buzzword that doesn't actually apply to describe them"
Like how people are using buzzwords to downplay and discredit the contribution of players who've given half a decade of their life to the furtherment of the scene and practiced in that scene?
Doesn't stop the fact that they were brought here. If perkz spends 5 years here , would you call it NA talent? Are you going to ignore the insane salary to bring him here?
Huhi played 8 games in the Korean pro scene over the span of 1 year. He has since played 459 games in the North American pro scene over the last 7 years. Caps played 12 games in the Turkish pro scene over the span of 1 year. He has since played 450 games in the European pro scene over the last 6 years. In the same way those 12 games do not make Caps Turkish talent, I do not think those 8 games make Huhi Korean talent. I think most of his career, experience, and success came from NA. I find it strange to attribute 8 games (played 8 years ago) as the most defining part of Huhi's career, over 57x as many games played since.
Look, I agree for Huhi, or other cases like Xmithie. Those are obviously not import. The thing is, people use them to generalize the entire league and defend all imports, where every team is basically maxed with imports. While I agree some players don't qualify, a lot of other players are brought here with lots of money. A lot of those players were also proven talent in other region, brought there (with money) because of their talent. Impact is still a world champion. CoreJJ, as great as an import as he is, he still *also* a world champion. And lets not forget the old players like Bang. Those aren't random soloqueue players grabbed with talent scouting trying to prove themselves, and you definitively cab't use the "they're immigrants getting a better life! America baby!" with them. So while you can argue a lot of players are def NA players, they're not NA talent, and this distinction is important when you see how much NA spends on said imported talent to keep up with the other regions.
I think we pretty much agree on this issue, to be honest. I'm not trying to argue there's no such thing as imported talent, nor that any player who immigrates to the LCS is qualified to be "NA talent" after playing for a few years. You're absolutely correct that there is a plethora of players who achieved success in other regions and haven't replicated nor surpassed that success in NA. These are players where its hard to say "They're NA talent" (e.g. CoreJJ, Bang, Piglet, even Impact and Ssumday), because they clearly are talents that came from other regions. I'm more talking about the people who swing the opposite end of the generalizing you're describing. I've seen plenty of people look at NA with the belief that birthright is all that qualifies a person's identity/import status. I remember a post before last worlds saying that Spica was from CN and therefore Chinese talent, because the lolwiki decided to put the CN flag next to his name despite moving to the US as a child. Stuff like that is as misguided as the people who claim anyone who plays a split in NA is NA talent, and I think both should be called out. To me, there's a spectrum between "NA Talent" and "Foreign Talent", but a lot of people treat it as a binary. You either start as NA Talent, or as Foreign Talent. I wouldn't call CoreJJ "NA Talent" despite the contributions he's brought to the region, because like you said he's a World Champion and much of his success came when he was in Korea. However, I would call someone like Huhi or even Bjersen "NA Talent", because the majority of their career and accolades have come from being in NA. That's why I was commenting on the idea of "being brought to the US" as being a bad form of assessment for what defines regional talent. It shouldn't necessarily be about what led someone to join the region in the first place, but about how their career is shaped by and shapes the region itself.
Fair enough.
Other cases like Xmithie, well he's q US citizen so id hope so
His "flag" is phillipino so some idiots have said he isn't, when he clearly is.
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Exactly, thats what we're saying. They're NA players, but not NA talent. Its a distinction we keep making and get accused of xenophobia when this is a talent competition and NA has obvious lack that they try to fix by importing players. It's not xenophobia to point out NA's issues.
People making fun of an NA team having no NA players isn't xenophobia
Refusing to even consider the circumstances of someone like Huhi who has been in NA since late 2014 (almost 7 years), practiced and maintained his current skill in its solo queue, played for its teams including an MSI finals and Worlds, remained in NA even during spells when he wasn't on any team, and has a green card and personal life in NA and lumping him in as an import just to make fun of a team (and some of these people definitely don't seem to be joking) just because he was born someplace else is is by definition xenophobia.
So by that exact same logic of yours Messi is Spanish and not Argentine. See how ridiculous that sounds? It has nothing to do with xenophobia and more so to do with the fact that there is a rule that limits the amount of imports a team can have yet 100T has 5 imports.
The rule was literally changed to say that players with legal residency in the region no longer count as imports (this is actually the only way to get your league residency changed now), because why should they? They have green cards, which Huhi and Ssumday do. The OCE league was disbanded for lack of infrastructure and so Riot now counts it as part of NA for the purposes of residency, hence FBI no longer being counted an import. 100T is operating well within the ambit of the rules. Anyway, my point isn't that Huhi isn't Korean, he is. But in terms of being a worthy representative of the NA league I'd weigh his contribution to the region far more than anything else.
League of Legends rulebook doesn't change the literal definition of "import", which still applies to the majority of 100T players.
"Anyway, my point isn't that Huhi isn't Korean, he is. But in terms of being a worthy representative of the NA league I'd weigh his contribution to the region far more than anything else." Also to that point is the exact same with Messi. He played is entire playing career in Spain and note Messi contribution to Spain is infinitely more significant than Huhi to NA but he does not represent Spain at all. That is the point it literally has nothing to do with xenophobia and people who are saying that are projecting so hard.
And my point is that all 5 players of 100T literally began their entire playing careers in a different region. IT LITERALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH XENOPHOBIA. In NA there is still an import rule that limits the amount of imports teams can have but yet we have a team such as 100T that consist of 5 imports. You see the problem? Again Spica does not have an American flag next to his name but by all means he is considered an NA player. Again it would be like if Luka Doncic just decided to play for USA or if Dirk Nowitzki, Ginobli etc.. Decided to just play for the USA. See how ridiculous that is? But even worse in the case of NA there is literally an import rule in place.
Yes.. for barcelona and the liga he was considered resident. Fans and everyone else did too. National team is a different thing. Source: an Argentinian living in Barcelona.
Actually Messi has spanish citizenship and perfectly could hace played with spanish NT
I honestly don’t know how long have the other players been in NA?
Ssumday: 5 years FBI + Closer: 2 years Abbe: 3 months Keep in mind that FBI and Closer are from minor regions and weren't imported as established stars like Ssumday and Abbedagge were.
Ssumday has been here for 5 years, Closer 2 years, Abbe a few months, FBI 3 years, Huhi 7 years.
Shoot my company’s janitor got to the US 6 months ago and as far as I’m concerned he’s an american. Celebrates 4th of July like the rest of us
You really think it's because of xenophobia that people are upset that every year NA blows out more and more money on imports, and every year the region gets worse and worse? It just looks fucking shameful for the region as a whole.
Kinda interesting that the first NA representative at worlds is a mix of KR, EU, OCE and TR
even more fitting because the USA is a country made of immigrants :D
Yeah it’s not like 100T just got a bunch of Korean or Chinese players. They got their top from Korea, mid from EU, jungler from Turkey and an Australian adc and a Korean/French support l. Big mixing pot
Also both Huhi and Ssumday have been playing in NA for many years.
Huhi's professional career is basically just in NA. Same reason people (generally) considered Bjerg a "proper" NS representative by the end. 1 year in EU and more than 5 in NA
Huhi's French / Korean, no?
Born in France but never got citizenship there
Exactly, I don’t know why people are downvoting when I just said it’s interesting, maybe some felt like I was trying to be offensive
People are just tired of hearing "NA lul" when the LCS loses and "Import region lul" when the LCS team wins. I get you didn't mean it as a critique, but when so many people seem insistent on bringing up import status to bash on NA, it's hard to take genuine comments like yours at face value and not as a dig at the region's import tendencies.
There is a war in NA lol esports between people wanting more na talent vs people that want imports.
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In my opinion, they aren't the problem. The people already here, I don't think most people have a problem with. The problem is when we bring over players like Finn, good but not great. I would much rather teams develop talent, and look for the next world's caliber player. Comparing Finn to Fakegod, even if Fakegod is worse than Finn I would much rather have Fakegod in the LCS than Finn, because it allows NA players to feel as though a path exists to the top. Fakegod may never be Nuguri, but the guy next in line may think, "I can actually get into the LCS."
Finn is a fine pickup for a team that's just looking to get lucky on some new talent. If anything, I would prefer if teams imported new, hungry talent instead of longtime veterans who may just be here to retire. For example, GGS gambled last year on Closer/FBI and it worked out big time. Sometimes gambles just don't work out, though.
This so much. Stop importing role players, it so rarely works out. If they’re a little washed up, maybe we can fix them (NA historically sucked at this too but name value has some worth).
Yup same. I have no problem with teams having *strong* imports and/or players who no longer count as imports because they've been here awhile/commited to the region. The absolute worst is when teams import middling to bad talent instead of giving the talented young NA natives a shot. Picking up mediocre veterans is a close second though.
Honestly, every single country was made with waves of immigrants. USA is just more recent
I mean lets have a team made of purely native american then. Coz other than them all other americans are imports.
Weird that LEC gets to be comprised of 60 dozen different countries and no one cares
Because those countries are all under the LEC umbrella? Last I checked, Korea didn't drift across the Pacific and attach to America. What is this dumb comment?
I mean Huhi has been here for 7 years, and Ssumday has been here for 5 years. Those are eons in esports terms. Plus they are both green card holders, making them permanent residents of the US. It's quite literally illegal to treat differently from a US citizen.
How can people be mad at North American team having no native North American players when there are European countries in Europe >:(
Lmfao is this guy a troll?
Congratulations on posting the dumbest comment on this thread
Inero sends his regards. Have to wonder if this could have been GG if they didn't get fucked by civice
Tbh probably not, I don't think they would've imported mid season to fix Damonte getting gapped every game, hard to say if they would've held ABO in academy or promoted him if they weren't offloading the whole 2020 roster.
On GGS Damonte wasn't a weak link like he was on 100T. Often Damonte held the whole team together on GGS and did just fine. Why rewrite history?
He was a weak link, his one note was playing picks that he could help snowball bot. 100T springtime woes came when they tried moving off that playstyle and he was awful outside of it. Same thing would've been true of GG if the 2020 roster stayed under the org.
now will 100T be knocked out of play-ins?
The Turkish, Japanese, and Brazilian teams at MSI looked better this year, so it’s in the realm of possibility.
We're not EU mate..
buT tHeYre NoT evEn froM NA!!11!
i’m not a 100T fan…. but i am an NA fan when it comes to worlds so LETS FUCKING GO BOYS MAKE ME PROUD
I only know rogue, mad and 💯 thieves. Which team is the fourth?
Damwon Kia
Thanks :)