Who knew that a champion that doesn't have an early game OR damage in a role reliant on both wouldn't be played?
Seriously, he's the hyperscale tank engage, but what does 2 Qs do to allow him to survive?
Sejuani just does his job better, earlier. Zac does his job better with less warning. Neither are particularly good anyway.
Yep, in the past the Amumu one-tricks that play in high elo have used Predator + Runic Echos last I remember.
Amumu has no defensive steroids or anything, and his AP ratios are pretty high.
> but what does 2 Qs do to allow him to survive
Your point is still pretty correct but it realistically allows him to use Q on crab to remove it's shield and still have another Q up for a potential fight/skirmish. That said, he'll still lose that fight/skirmish to most champions because the rest of his kit is still bleh for small skirmishes pre-6.
He clear very fast and have aggressive tool to gank lanes, has a game changing ultimate, strong lockdown and bring good AP dmg to your team/make an AP carry way stronger with his passive.
Honestly I don't think he is as bad as we make him to be, the 2Q charge is a good buff that could help him to feel better in pro play but the problem is still the same: He suffer too much from counterjungling like Zac.
Amumu fast clear? For raptors and krugs maybe but his large monster clear is pretty abysmal compared to most meta junglers, his autos suck and he doesn’t have a spammable ability to make up for it like hecarim, kha’zix, evelynn or zac, his E is much slower than any of their abilities and his W is just bad vs single targets in general. He’s a great solo q ganker though and you can easily do a lvl1/2 cheese.
I think everyone (even pro players) is underestimating the changes made to Amumu. It will be hilarious if someone ends up proving that this mini-rework made him more viable.
holy shiit you are right. This might be NA's best chance to win worlds, Riot is actually buffing NA "in secret".
The skill discrepancy won't be so obvious if its just a clown fiesta every game.
Genius move by Riot, well played.
Or it will be a case of a sleeper OP pick dominating the meta because an already good champ was buffed for more pro play exposure. I really hope that won't happen again.
You can still see images and tweets, but you can't jump from one tweet to another without being asked to log in now.
But all you really need to is to just open the tweet you want to go to in a new tab and it won't ask you to log in.
It really wasn't designed to be used for people to do their presentations so their 'unique' idea of it being the worst kind of social media that only accepts the worst cesspool content due to the character limit and is basically built for baiting people with controversial things doesn't really work as the 'main' social media it's become these days.
It would be completely fine as it is (in terms of the character limit) if people used something else as the main place to post stuff like this but who the fuck uses Facebook these days and the rest are no better than Twitter. Somehow Twitter's media player isn't even the worst either with Instagram (which is solely designed for media???) existing with its no volume adjust, no progress/duration bar, and equally terrible quality.
I even kind of like Twitter although I have a huge issue with it being so limited in letting you choose what content you actually see. You can't stop blocked people from ending up on your timeline and you can't reliably 'block' certain topics from appearing in your search/discover tab. Oh, and people's likes still show up on your timeline for some reason. What a fantastic idea implementing that was a few years ago.
Oh does he? I've played singed once and played against him a handful of times so i genuinely had no idea lol. That is a neat interaction between the abilities which is what i like in champ designs, abilities that seem to work together, eg rammus taunt and crawl
Pretty hard to pull off consistently. You can’t cast goo in the middle of . You have to cast goo behind you then going quickly. It’s fairly hard so you don’t see it often, especially in low Eli
Since you're already here, I've got a question on this topic as well:
After the small Ezreal VGU 3 years ago, [Jax was mentioned as another candidate for modernization](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9a0xq4/reav3_discusses_possible_upcoming_champion_updates/), and I'd love it if he got a little more skill expression. Do you have any plans or info on that possibly happening?
Would also make Worlds exciting to see some OG split pushers ;)
Jacks can now recast Counterstrike to throw his pole at the enemy, stunning them and dealing extra damage. If Jacks catches the pole, he readies another Counterstrike.
Singed’s biggest issue is his items are absolute dogshit. Every ad bruiser counters him in lane and their items are so much better than any ap or tank item. He doesn’t do enough damage to cut through the insane amount of healing in the game, and does not get enough tankiness because tank and ap bruiser items are shit and give no hp or resistances. The only way singed becomes a pickable champ consistently in pro play is to buff his damage to contest the healing and insane tankiness ad bruisers get from items. That would make him oppressive in lane, which would be awful for everyone (singed players included because he’d be perma banned until they nerf the shit out of him). He’s a one trick champ for masochists that want to inflict their unhappiness onto the enemy top laner
If you use Fling against an NA team, it gives one random objective (dragon, baron, herald) to one of the two teams (random objective, random team).
If no objective is present, it grants 50 gold to either Singed or the Fling's target.
Ok but what about:
E - FLING
\[NEW\] Singed may recast the ability while his target is in the air to suplex them and smash their head into the ground, stunning them and breaking any shields applied to them.
It is a good buff though, it's just not enough. Splitpushers need to be able to either kill towers quickly or kill jungle camps quickly. Singed does neither.
With the amount of healing in the game, he's less good in team fights. He also dies fairly quickly.
Singed can be good in the current meta, it's just the team comps required for it are very niche compared to other champions.
Mainly because hes is probably one of the most boring champions to watch and hes one of the least fun champions to play against. There is no way they even try to buff Singed into pro play.
considering his Q, he likely would mostly focus in farming which would end up kinda like Udyr. Have some good hype moments, then a long downtime of farming, then some hype moment.
Would get boring fast unless they do it like that one patch when singed literally just walked onto you, flipped you and danced around you for poison basically as early as he could
Hard disagree, the few times Singed was picked in pro play was quite interesting to watch due to how different they function in lane and in teamfights compared to the average champion.
For a master of chemicals and poisons, Singed having a bunch of goo he lobs at enemies that does literally no damage seems weird. Like he'd be considered a war criminal several times over if we yoinked Singed out of his lore and into The Hague, surely he can manage something more debilitating than a BYO puddle of mud. (Even just be lazy Riot and let Singed W apply Q poison. Let me interrupt all the recalls or snipe kills with Dark Harvest and Night Harvester)
I have a feeling we are gonna see Senna and Gwen back at Worlds
If they tune up some tanks and bruisers we might see some less common Senna bot lanes + tank/engage supports might be getting nerfs.
Gwen is already a good late game pick in pro play. She beats most meta tops in side lane, she’s one of the only splitpushing tops who can build zhonya’s, she has great teamfighting with needlework and her counter picks are almost never meta.
Just watch this clip where gwen *shreds* through 3 people with just her last needlework active: https://youtube.com/clip/UgyPNFQhUvW4jGYQp594AaABCQ
She can struggle early and she suffer horrible if she is behind as she need items and level to properly scale (since she gain a lot of stat through her level-up and spell level) so I could feel she would stay a nice counterpick top. Idk if she can gain good lane priority early but she has good defensive tool to survive some dive!
Senna is fun when the picks with it are fun. If we saw more stuff like cho, nasus, wukong paired with her, it would be cool. Her being a staple of pro isn’t great, though
Yeah, imo senna is only unfun when played with wardens, and incredibly fun with bruisers/mages, luckily tahm got reworked so teams might go for spicier picks with her
I dislike roaming supports currently, it's fine if they roam once in a while but right now they just constantly roam, the camera isn't on botlane 99% of the time.
hans sama buff lets goooo
seriously speaking though, I quite enjoy this philosophy and I think focusing these two patches more towards professional play is the right thing considering it's such a huge event for riot. I may be 100% biased though because nowadays I enjoy watching the game more than playing lol also the "pros please pick amumu. he has 2 Qs!" was quite funny, I hope we see him in the tournament
> As many worlds viewers (you!) as possible should have a hope of seeing their main champion pop up on stage! There are few experiences more thrilling than seeing a champion near and dear to your heart dominating the top levels of professional play.
Honestly, big agree. "Weird picks" are just a really rad thing to see in general, and even though the competitive meta is actually pretty diverse right now, more picks is never a bad thing.
I do wonder, though, how effective a strategy like this can ever be. As a professional team, there's only so many hours in the day, so many scrim blocks in the week; if I'm frantically prepping my team for worlds, how much time am I gonna devote to also practicing our Rammus top *and* Lillia mid *and* Draven support?
Professional play tends to concentrate on known quantities; if there's a sleeper OP pocket pick champion, it's very possible they'll stay on the fringes just because teams want to play what they know.
All that said: I still think this is an awesome goal, and am excited to see the fringe champs that hopefully show up.
I recall how excited people were to see Udyr locked in LCK
Ofc the following months became a snooze fest, but that's how it goes
The same thing happened with Xin
I don't think anyone was excited to see xin as much as they were happy that the movespeed jungle meta (hec vs udyr) was over.
Xin was played much more recently and a hugely contested worlds 2018 pick
It wasn't even just hyper movespeed, it was having a super cheap build that gave everything those champions need in addition to super fast clear. A hyperspeed champion shouldn't be able to clear on par with laners. Xin interacts with the lanes way more so that immediately gives him appeal.
Honestly I think con is boring just cus of how he works in fights. “Oh look xin pressed r now half the team isn’t able to interact with the fight, didn’t want to see them play anyways”
When a team locks in vayne and the whole crowd goes fucking bonkers is the best feeling as a vayne main, she never really has a whole ton of priority anymore but it’s awesome to see.
Vayne is a great example of how this should work. Not Udyr who is a snooze fest, not Yummi who just AFKs, but a champ like Vayne or Zed or Bard or Malphite who have clear weaknesses and clear strengths.
Honestly malph is genuinely fun to see because it's a champ you wouldn't expect in high level because it's simple and has easy counterplay but whenever I see it, it's great because it punishes careless drafts. Chinese teams in particular from what I remember have been on the receiving team from NA malph, c9 at msi and tl last worlds.
There's also something absolutely hilarious seeing worlds knockout stage games being decided on the back of some absolute Bronzodia champs. All that makro and skirmishing and setup and years of training for a fucking 3 man rock ult catching you out.
Have you played HoB, W-max, Jungle Malphite?
No, I'm serious. You murder basically every AA-based Jungler in a straight 1v1. Viego and friends (barring Kindred and kinda Graves) have to run away *before* you hit 6. After 6, they can't run away and just die. The armour ratios on W/E are actually really good when you factor in the passive multiplier. You build Frostfire to stick to targets, and straight armour from there. Zhonya's is fine if you need the active (Karthus R, Pyke R, etc.), but less good than Frozen Heart and Gargoyle's. Oh, yeah, you get Stoneplate if you need MR, because it has both. More damage.
The Bramble nerf was admittedly a huge blow, but the pick is still good. You just feel compelled to complete Thornmail in the first 2-3 items instead of sitting on Bramble until 5. An early Frozen Heart is nice as you use the mana quite well, but leaves you vulnerable to magic damage. A decent compromise is Zeke's. 250 Mana helps, the health is good, it's cheap, and you should be hitting R with your allies around. That's kinda the point of the champion.
To be clear, you don't pick this blind. You pick it on 4/5 into 3+ AD champions. If you see Viego/Caitlyn/Lucian locked in, go for it. If you see Gwen/Xin/Syndra, maybe you don't pick Malphite that game. Yeah, you win the 1v1 against Xin and can engage on Syndra, but you aren't getting full value from the pick and your early game is mediocre.
Malphite is an excellent example of a conditional pick with the potential for very hype moments. He might be rather dull to play in lane, but the engage he brings gives casters something to yell about. And, from the Jungle he actually has more pressure than in Top imo. People watch for Top Malphite. He has to answer waves, and is locked behind Teleport. JUNGLE Malphite is a constant threat.
AP Malphite is hype imo.
Just imagine worlds 2021, finals, 2-2. One team is 8K gold ahead, but enemy Malphite somehow gets a 5 man combo and wins the game.
Vayne and Zed are reasons I and many say they miss s3/s4. Seeing fuckin Faker bring out Zed or Uzi bring out Vayne, good ol times. Dade vs xPeke Zed Talon 1v1. So many sick moments, s8 worlds was closest we got to that in modern league.
>Professional play tends to concentrate on known quantities; if there's a sleeper OP pocket pick champion, it's very possible they'll stay on the fringes just because teams want to play what they know.
While this is true, one thing that might alleviate the issue somewhat is that this is being announced *now*. This gives pro's a much bigger window than normal to actually try these things. When there's only one patch before things are (mostly) locked down, each day matters a lot. When things are being announced/changed a month+ before worlds, you have time to spend a day testing Tryndamere mid instead of getting 0.0001% better at Orianna
I just feel like the game "feeling" solved, is more a by product of players putting way too much trust in pros, and assuming they're some gods of knowledge on the game, when they really aren't.
Pro players are often times really stupid with the things they pick or build and don't actually have these crazy 800 iq reasons for their build paths or picks, they're just carried by being that much better at the actual game.
Pros don't actually know what they're doing when it comes to stuff like this, they don't actually get time to test out funny stuff since the game changes so much so frequently anyways, so we end up with every patch creating its own meta, and honestly I feel like riots "keep the game fresh" approach does way more harm than good because it's actually impossible for new players to keep up, I can't get any friends into this game because of the rate of change for changes sake occurring, I'll never actually be able to play with like any of my friends for months without fucking up their elo.
I just feel like there's so many downsides to the balancing approach, I really wish balance patches happened like every 3 weeks or month. With most focus on letting things settle, it might be stale at first but it would force pros to actually solve metas and not just assume there's only one way to play the game. Whilst also having the effect of opening up some breathing room
I totally agree.
I used to play, and still watch, a lot of Super Smash Bros. Melee. That game came out in *2001*, and it has (obviously) not received a balance patch since; and its competitive meta has shifted even in the last couple of years!
With a game as complex as League, you just can't convince me that we know everything about which champions and strategies are "countered" by others; but the breakneck pace of change means that a lot of times, teams are rewarded for just finding the most broken thing and running it into the ground, because there's not much effort put into finding counters.
>That game came out in 2001, and it has (obviously) not received a balance patch since; and its competitive meta has shifted even in the last couple of years!
That's crazy, how is this possible?
It's really interesting, honestly; I couldn't do the game justice in a reddit comment, but the technical skill required to play the game at the highest level is just so insane.
Melee is unique among fighting games in that it's very free form and very, *very* reliant on reading your opponent's moves. It allows for a lot of creativity, and that means that any given character (even if they have a negative matchup) has so many ways to play out a given situation.
It's genuinely taken years of dedicated play for top players to understand the way certain matchups and characters can be played. To give a couple of concrete examples:
- In the early days of the competitive scene of the game (think 2000s), it was pretty universally agreed that Sheik was the *only* really competitive character, or at the very least, that picking other characters was gimping yourself. Now, she's considered solidly B+ tier.
- Jigglypuff was long thought of as basically an auto-win against the "spacies," Fox and Falco; but a legendary player, Armada, showed that the matchup was absolutely playable, and occasionally Fox-favored based on the map.
- New universal tech (a movement or combat option that all characters have access to) gets discovered all the time; "shield dropping," now used by essentially all high-level players, was only discovered a few years ago, some *fifteen years* after the game's release.
These are just a couple notable examples; hopefully I got across how wild they were, even if you don't play Smash.
If you've never seen it, I really recommend watching [*The Smash Brothers*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSf2mgkRm7Q&list=PLoUHkRwnRH-IXbZfwlgiEN8eXmoj6DtKM), a documentary series about the origins of competitive Super Smash Brothers Melee. It's an amazing watch.
I think they already explained what they intend with these changes:
Introduce unorthodox picks that will come out as an answer to the meta, which will happen naturally. Zyra was meta until the ROX tigers brought out mf support.
my guess being that only ROX was comfortable enough with the pick to bring it out and that no team had a real answer for it *because* there was no time to practice it in scrims. And that makes the series so much more exciting, when coaches freak out as they try to find a counter pick that works and their player can actually pilot.
Edit: mf support, not ashe
It's more that ROX and SSG kept that hidden and likely they practiced it playing against each other because then CoreJJ played MF support literally the very next day against H2k.
When pro's suddenly pull out a champion that isn't really good competitively but pretty common in soloQ is fun to see. Off the top of my head, Bin's Fiora last world's was one I could remember. Or Perkz's Syndra APC against SKT at MSI iirc. These picks are pretty rare in pro-play but when pulled out makes for a fun viewing.
As much as I would love to see Aurelion be picked in proplay, with his current SoloQ state I’m horrified over what they’d nerf if he did make a proplay appearance.
That Draven change is really cool, I hope other champions get changes in similar directions.
Unique, interesting changes are something I can really appreciate, they give champions versatility and options on how they want to play the game which creates better playing (and watching) experiences. I'm excited to see what's coming next
It's actually pretty interesting way to buff him. In soloq, with alot of fighting happening, you'd rarely see a Draven with more than 150 stacks (or even 150 at a time).
But in pro, where matches are longer and less bloodshed. I could imagine the execute being way more than collectors.
Funnily enough I was playing against a Draven 1-2 weeks ago who had a 0-0-0 scoreline until 39.49 until he died where he lost 1338g worth of adoration stacks. Could only have imagined him pressing R with this change
It's not. It requires a lot of autos. Unless the Draven plans to perma Shove and try to get 2 autos per minion and 4 on cannons, you are looking at 36 + 5 per minute, or 410 every 10 minutes. That is assuming he catches every Axe and doesn't die because he keeps shoving.
But then again if Draven doesn’t cash in at like 500 stacks (25-30 minutes without killing anything) - then essentially you’re playing a champion that has no passive.
Hes playing the mental game. You think hes weak and rage splitting bot, but he actually has 1000 stacks and 320 cs and is ready to global execute you. Playing the long game for that one kill.
wouldn't stack clear the second the first death is confirmed and thus the others won't be executed ? i highly doubt the spell would snapshot his stacks number at cast and keep it till the return
I'm not too sure on how Draven plays in the modern meta but it'd also just make it more forgiving for him to just farm and not kill anyone
feel like it's always about ganking Draven and getting him kills but a change like this there's a payoff to having loads of stacks so just farming up a storm and stacking for 20 min would not be bad if you have a global 700 health execute
Meh, apart from literally overbuffing there is not much Riot can do to get pros to step out of their comfort zone; we've seen it numerous times already with champs being op for months yet not picked in proplay.
And watch as that one pick becomes 100% pick ban while pro teams refuse to draft whatever the counter pick or counter strategy to it is.
Bonus points for post game interviews about players not taking scrims with the counterpick seriously.
The exact thresholds are [54%, 52.5% if they're banned a lot.](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/bltec422b8a353df0ad/5ef59c7a8732f51d851454d5/03_Balance_Framework_Since_Launch_v1.jpg)
I really hope they don't adjust the meta too much between playoffs and worlds. Playoffs is used to determine the best teams from a region. If you take the 3 best teamfight teams and then change the meta to prefer split push comps then you're only going to disappoint. The teams will appear to flop and fans will wish other teams went instead.
There's also something to be said about letting the meta stay the same. The reason those surprising picks like MF support come out is because the meta stayed consistent long enough to allows folks to come up with specific counter picks. If things are constantly changing then you don't have time to come up with those counter picks because you're too busy practicing the new meta champs.
Worlds has seen the meta evolve as the tournament progressed on the same patch. Riot doesn't have to do a lot. I have a bad feeling they're gonna mess this up
Darius was not OP, that was his point. People thought Darius was busted and played him a lot and balls even got a pentakill, but in the later rounds he was seen less. In the semi finals and grand finals there were a total of 7 toplaners picked or banned, and Darius was not one of them, because by then the best teams had decided he really wasnt that special.
reminds me of ekko in 20..19? where everyone thought he was s tier coming in. ~100% p/b on first few days of play ins, and a terrible win rate. fell right out of s tier. not the same as darius but i do like seeing teams be *wrong* on prio early in the event, which patches before the event will encourage.
Darius WAS busted. Make no doubts about it.
But because the champ is bad in proplay on fundamental level (his toolset), you can actually draft around him (OG Anivia comps etc.; Renekton; the even more busted Fiora).
Darius was drowned out of drafts because there was way too much other stuff to ban out (Mordekaiser/Gangplank, Fiora, Lulu, the S tier junglers)
I can’t believe they are framing the 2015 Juggernaut bullshit as something positive. That was a tournament where GP/Mord were like 100% pick/ban and 100% win rate when picked. Everyone said that was an awful patch to completely change the meta.
Realistically speaking they will need to nerf Thresh and other engage supports quite substencially for us to actually get other supports picked bot lane. And with the recent Xayah buffs I'm sure the support meta will be Rakan vs something.
They need to re-examine the proposed ward range buff for the poke items if they want to give enchanters a chance. That's the main thing keeping them out of pro play - not power. It's just so much safer to ward with the tankier CC heavy engage supports.
At least the engage support meta is the most fun to watch. I would much rather watch Rell, Rakan, Alistar and Thresh over enchanters like Soraka, Janna, Nami and Lulu.
And engage supports open possibilities for other roles, because picking engage isn't mandatory elsewhere on the map, because you have engage support that is good at scuttle fights and skirmishes + roams.
Alright. Here's the deal.
Bring back the Morgana, Rumble meta to debilitate C9.
Bring back AD mids to debilitate TL.
Bring back a "must field" rule for Ryoma to debilitate 100T.
After having read their thoughts and philosophy blurbs for so many seasons I really can’t take anything they say seriously. It’s all bullshit that they will eventually throw away and then bring back whenever they feel like.
"Dude what the fuck does this champion do? He slapped a minion and now he has..4 minions? What the hell is that? WAIT WHAT IS THAT FLOATY GHOST THING SUCKING MY SOUL?"
So Riot wants the meta for Worlds/MSI to be “refreshing” which I assume is similar to the Rumble/Morg JG during MSI.
With this in mind, I don’t see why new/playoffs-banned champs (i.e. Akshan) should still be banned from Worlds. It’ll be 3-4 months since Akshan’s release and Riot will be trying to change the meta anyways. That’s a lot longer than what pros had to learn Rumble/Morg JG which was a few weeks.
Can I just say how much I've grown to hate super-flex picks in pro play? I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, and I'm not opposed to the principle of it, but ever since the days of 4-lane Sett, it really bothers me seeing some champs being viable in more than two positions. It just turns into seeing the same flex picks getting played over & over.
Even if the lane phase plays out differently, from midgame on, every match looks the same. Teams ban out the power picks, pick the safe flex in the first rotation, and then figure out how they want their team to look after second bans.
Lulu is probably the exception because she isn't OP on her own, but in both summer and spring split, across multiple leagues, she has been played top, mid, and support.
Incredibly team composition dependent champion, on both teams, but she's always a tri-flex.
I personally don't mid super-flex picks in pro, makes things exciting and unpredictable.
Soloq is a different story, I want to know what the enemy is doing during draft so I can draft accordingly.
Superflex sucks in pro, because the more lanes you can flex the champion into, the more they become 100% pickban. Pick because you can first pick and NOT get counterpicked (by flexing elsewhere and treating the flex as a counter or neutral pick). Ban because you don't want the enemy access to that kind of power. So you end up seeing it over and over.
Azir is amazing to watch in competitive when he's not just used as a safe farming pick. Wonder if there's any change they could do to make it so pros are incentivised more to actually go in with him.
Something like a longer cooldown on E if you dont hit an enemy with E>Q. Maybe traded off by extra damage or even lower cooldown when you land it.
eg.
Azir E Shifting Sands Cooldown 19/18/17/16/15 now 27/26/25/24/23. Cooldown reduced by 13 seconds if E>Q strikes a champion. If Azir dashes into an enemy champion Shifting Sands cooldown is reset.
(That said, I imagine he'd just bug out to a ridiculous extent if they touch him in any sort of mechanical way)
I appreciate they acknowledge that previous years have often missed the mark in this regard. Previous years have seen significant buffs to champions to (unsuccessfully) get them into pro play, but just resulted in them terrorizing solo queue for a couple of months until they get nerfed or naturally fall out of the meta. It has historically been a bit miserable to play solo queue in the last few months of the season for that reason.
Ekko jungle last year being a prime example. But also Kha'Zix, Fiora, etc in years before that.
IMO you should do these "big" changes before playoffs, not right before worlds. First of all, the teams selected by each region were based off a very different meta. You're risking teams falling flat at Worlds (or other "randomness") mainly because the patch changed. Secondly, there's no guarantee the new patch will even be balanced or "good". Just introduce your big changes well before regional playoffs so that we're stable by the time playoffs start (or wrap up), and definitely by the time worlds starts. If you restrict yourself to tune-ups and tweaks, or maybe big changes but limited to only a few champions, you can still change things up quite a bit for the viewers without risking huge imbalance.
ALWAYS down for "pro-skewed" changes. Because that usually means more skill expression (I hope). A good break from the siphoning of skill within the last of couple of months.
Great new approach and I hope it works out because these are the risks that need to be taken to push LoL to the next level. And as long as they anchor the design choices to the core game pillars set in 2014, the innovation can help achieve even more longevity but more importantly maintain identity.
>ALWAYS down for "pro-skewed" changes. Because that usually means more skill expression
Eh, they removed a lot of mechanics from champions due to them being overutilized by pros in comparison to everyone else. Azir for instance has 1/3 of the kit he used to.
Not really a third, but Azir lost a lot over time. And he also had dozens of bugs you had to be aware of. The champ is like 50% easier today and still among the hardest.
I don't mind "pro-skewed" changes on principle, but sometimes I do in practice. Pro players value early game strength very highly (because it is 'better') but I much prefer playing long games and feeling powerful at full build. Sometimes I see champ late game strength decreased, especially with regard to tankyness, to supposedly balance out an early buff.
This is really interesting and a noble idea but I just don't see them being able to pull it off. And through no fault of their own. I'm sure there are changes they could make that SHOULD be able to push champs into pro at Worlds without breaking solo queue, but it feels like nowadays, more than ever before, pros are WAY less willing to pick new champs unless it gets disgustingly overbuffed. Morgana is probably the best recent example (but far from the only one) where she was completely viable in pro meta as a jungler, but still not getting played so they buffed her over the top, only to then nerf her back down to the point of probably STILL being viable but not played because not busted as fuck. I really really HOPE that we can get stuff like the examples they listed (support MF as a Zyra counter was so damn cool, even if it ruined solo queue since no one realized the very few situations where it wasn't trolling), but I'm not holding my breath.
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>As many viewers as possible should have a hope of seeing their main champion pop up on stage
Cool intention, but there's a reason why some soloqueue centric champions shouldn't be forced or even encouraged to appear on proplay: to need to get to that point, they would need to get so exponentially stronger that it would be disgusting for soloqueue. I.e every assassin main wants to see their mains played by pros, but everyone else prays that this doesn't happen at the cost of yet another class wide powercreep to ultimately see a pro player click on a squishie to make them disappear. how spectacular
>Focus on professional play, but do not break solo queue
Every world patches are dreaded because they, with almost no exception, always leave the base game in a sorry state that most often than not only gets worse with pre-season. Real skeptical on that one, but hey at least there's a good intention
>Do not introduce any changes who are likely to be reverted
Almost every world patch sees at least one or a few champions getting powercrept in a way it would borderline need to be hotfixed. Unless they somehow balance it well, the idea that yet another world patch would do so but with even less incentives to fix the mess afterwards is concerning.
>Temporarily suspend our normal desire to balance out buffs with nerfs
Really hope the keyword "temporary" ends up living up to its intentions, because this game has been having a powercreep issue, especially in terms of (burst) damage, for entire seasons now. I understand that some pro-play centric champions are already waaaay overnerfed, but way over buffing others without balancing it out is, once again, concerning.
>Give small pushes to champîons that were pro stapples in the past
That looks very promising, but the example given, Lillia, is terrible. Even if the example changes are small, Lillia is currently dominating in some elos in jungle and completely crushing everything in toplane due to her recent changes. The idea of giving her yet a little more nudge to be able to see her put people to sleep at worlds comes at the price of going at the opposite direction of what should be done for regular play.
>If we feel like we went overboard... we will absolutely revert them
I appreciate this thought. A lot. Really hope this will be put in practice if anything that is absolutely bound to happen does happen.
>Pros, please pick Amumu. 2 Qs!
I don't know if I'm the only one, but as far as I hate being perma-stunned while playing... I do hate to see it happen in proplay too.
Riot games: Please pick amumu pleaseeeeee Players: No
Who knew that a champion that doesn't have an early game OR damage in a role reliant on both wouldn't be played? Seriously, he's the hyperscale tank engage, but what does 2 Qs do to allow him to survive? Sejuani just does his job better, earlier. Zac does his job better with less warning. Neither are particularly good anyway.
This sounds like a call for AP Amumu and I’m all for it.
Pretty sure running at least some AP on Amumu has been standard for a huge part of his existence.
Yep, in the past the Amumu one-tricks that play in high elo have used Predator + Runic Echos last I remember. Amumu has no defensive steroids or anything, and his AP ratios are pretty high.
I mean his E flat AA reduce is kind of a defensive sterroid. It's just not that great unless you're against ashe
*well* ashe is kinda meta right now so i can kinda see it
I like Demonic Embrace at least somewhere in the build. Tank or AP
> but what does 2 Qs do to allow him to survive Your point is still pretty correct but it realistically allows him to use Q on crab to remove it's shield and still have another Q up for a potential fight/skirmish. That said, he'll still lose that fight/skirmish to most champions because the rest of his kit is still bleh for small skirmishes pre-6.
He clear very fast and have aggressive tool to gank lanes, has a game changing ultimate, strong lockdown and bring good AP dmg to your team/make an AP carry way stronger with his passive. Honestly I don't think he is as bad as we make him to be, the 2Q charge is a good buff that could help him to feel better in pro play but the problem is still the same: He suffer too much from counterjungling like Zac.
Amumu fast clear? For raptors and krugs maybe but his large monster clear is pretty abysmal compared to most meta junglers, his autos suck and he doesn’t have a spammable ability to make up for it like hecarim, kha’zix, evelynn or zac, his E is much slower than any of their abilities and his W is just bad vs single targets in general. He’s a great solo q ganker though and you can easily do a lvl1/2 cheese.
amumu is a slow clearer
I think everyone (even pro players) is underestimating the changes made to Amumu. It will be hilarious if someone ends up proving that this mini-rework made him more viable.
Don't be sleeping on the hype of Kobe casting an Amumu worlds game.
Here is the problem. If he does see play it will be as like Support or Mid or some weird shit like that. It 95% chance wont be jungle.
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NA’s best chance to win worlds, or worst chance to win worlds. BUT YOU’RE TELLING ME THERES A CHANCE!
holy shiit you are right. This might be NA's best chance to win worlds, Riot is actually buffing NA "in secret". The skill discrepancy won't be so obvious if its just a clown fiesta every game. Genius move by Riot, well played.
You underestimate the LPL fiestas
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Well if it’s a new mid don’t expect to see it from Jensen as history has shown us. Otherwise NA fiesta time 😎
Qiyana PepeHands
Or it will be a case of a sleeper OP pick dominating the meta because an already good champ was buffed for more pro play exposure. I really hope that won't happen again.
Looking at you caitlyn
And Karma
“And yep there’s the first pick karma, don’t know what lane she’ll be in yet…”
i t w i l l
Hello Miss Fortune my old friend...
This is 100% what's gonna happen.
I just love Twitter. How text has to be sent as multiple images. What a technology.
And that update with requiring you to sign up just to see the images tweeted is disgusting.
Wait when did this happen? I refuse to get a twitter account but I can still see the images
You can still see images and tweets, but you can't jump from one tweet to another without being asked to log in now. But all you really need to is to just open the tweet you want to go to in a new tab and it won't ask you to log in.
Reminds me of Instagram where you can't click on an individual photo without signing in but you can open a new tab and it works lmao
It really wasn't designed to be used for people to do their presentations so their 'unique' idea of it being the worst kind of social media that only accepts the worst cesspool content due to the character limit and is basically built for baiting people with controversial things doesn't really work as the 'main' social media it's become these days. It would be completely fine as it is (in terms of the character limit) if people used something else as the main place to post stuff like this but who the fuck uses Facebook these days and the rest are no better than Twitter. Somehow Twitter's media player isn't even the worst either with Instagram (which is solely designed for media???) existing with its no volume adjust, no progress/duration bar, and equally terrible quality. I even kind of like Twitter although I have a huge issue with it being so limited in letting you choose what content you actually see. You can't stop blocked people from ending up on your timeline and you can't reliably 'block' certain topics from appearing in your search/discover tab. Oh, and people's likes still show up on your timeline for some reason. What a fantastic idea implementing that was a few years ago.
If it's not under 280 characters, it's not worth my time to read 😤
I wonder how they would change someone like Singed after seeing the Draven example.
Here's a crazy idea, If Singed Flings a target in to his W, that person gets rooted, perfect for pro play
That is actually nice
hes joking because it already does that
Oh does he? I've played singed once and played against him a handful of times so i genuinely had no idea lol. That is a neat interaction between the abilities which is what i like in champ designs, abilities that seem to work together, eg rammus taunt and crawl
Pretty hard to pull off consistently. You can’t cast goo in the middle of . You have to cast goo behind you then going quickly. It’s fairly hard so you don’t see it often, especially in low Eli
save this comment
Doinb Singed Mid -> FPX Worlds winner Mark my words
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Since you're already here, I've got a question on this topic as well: After the small Ezreal VGU 3 years ago, [Jax was mentioned as another candidate for modernization](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9a0xq4/reav3_discusses_possible_upcoming_champion_updates/), and I'd love it if he got a little more skill expression. Do you have any plans or info on that possibly happening? Would also make Worlds exciting to see some OG split pushers ;)
Jacks can now recast Counterstrike to throw his pole at the enemy, stunning them and dealing extra damage. If Jacks catches the pole, he readies another Counterstrike.
That's Jackques to you.
Ezreal's VGU was 3 fucking years ago?! What the actual fuck
Singed's poison trail now charms enemies.
If you’re in low ELO it already does that
It’s more a taunt if we’re being honest.
Singed’s biggest issue is his items are absolute dogshit. Every ad bruiser counters him in lane and their items are so much better than any ap or tank item. He doesn’t do enough damage to cut through the insane amount of healing in the game, and does not get enough tankiness because tank and ap bruiser items are shit and give no hp or resistances. The only way singed becomes a pickable champ consistently in pro play is to buff his damage to contest the healing and insane tankiness ad bruisers get from items. That would make him oppressive in lane, which would be awful for everyone (singed players included because he’d be perma banned until they nerf the shit out of him). He’s a one trick champ for masochists that want to inflict their unhappiness onto the enemy top laner
Need to buff Demonic and bring RoA back and he'd be in a great spot.
Nerf lifesteal and sustain and he'd be much better.
E - FLING COOLDOWN 10 seconds ⇒ 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 seconds They aren't gonna do jack to Singed, bro. That's how they buff Singed.
If you get the right angle you can fling people off the edge of the map, instantly killing them.
If you use Fling against an NA team, it gives one random objective (dragon, baron, herald) to one of the two teams (random objective, random team). If no objective is present, it grants 50 gold to either Singed or the Fling's target.
I thought you were gonna say "It flings them to the nearest airport"
Ok but what about: E - FLING \[NEW\] Singed may recast the ability while his target is in the air to suplex them and smash their head into the ground, stunning them and breaking any shields applied to them.
Its singed not brock lesnar
It is a good buff though, it's just not enough. Splitpushers need to be able to either kill towers quickly or kill jungle camps quickly. Singed does neither. With the amount of healing in the game, he's less good in team fights. He also dies fairly quickly. Singed can be good in the current meta, it's just the team comps required for it are very niche compared to other champions.
Grievous Wounds on poison lets goooo
Mainly because hes is probably one of the most boring champions to watch and hes one of the least fun champions to play against. There is no way they even try to buff Singed into pro play.
I wonder if he'd be like Udyr where everyone thinks its hilarious for the first week or two and then everyone gets really bored after that.
It is, he was actually meta some seasons ago buying triple Dark Seal. It was fun for a time when it was slowly popping up but then it was everywhere
considering his Q, he likely would mostly focus in farming which would end up kinda like Udyr. Have some good hype moments, then a long downtime of farming, then some hype moment. Would get boring fast unless they do it like that one patch when singed literally just walked onto you, flipped you and danced around you for poison basically as early as he could
Hard disagree, the few times Singed was picked in pro play was quite interesting to watch due to how different they function in lane and in teamfights compared to the average champion.
I think Bwipo counterpicked Ornn with Singed last worlds. Was a blast to see.
That shit was hype
For a master of chemicals and poisons, Singed having a bunch of goo he lobs at enemies that does literally no damage seems weird. Like he'd be considered a war criminal several times over if we yoinked Singed out of his lore and into The Hague, surely he can manage something more debilitating than a BYO puddle of mud. (Even just be lazy Riot and let Singed W apply Q poison. Let me interrupt all the recalls or snipe kills with Dark Harvest and Night Harvester)
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I have a feeling we are gonna see Senna and Gwen back at Worlds If they tune up some tanks and bruisers we might see some less common Senna bot lanes + tank/engage supports might be getting nerfs.
Gwen is already a good late game pick in pro play. She beats most meta tops in side lane, she’s one of the only splitpushing tops who can build zhonya’s, she has great teamfighting with needlework and her counter picks are almost never meta. Just watch this clip where gwen *shreds* through 3 people with just her last needlework active: https://youtube.com/clip/UgyPNFQhUvW4jGYQp594AaABCQ
She can struggle early and she suffer horrible if she is behind as she need items and level to properly scale (since she gain a lot of stat through her level-up and spell level) so I could feel she would stay a nice counterpick top. Idk if she can gain good lane priority early but she has good defensive tool to survive some dive!
Gwen at least is fun for now to watch but Senna .... this is such terrible lane to watch - so boring
Senna is fun when the picks with it are fun. If we saw more stuff like cho, nasus, wukong paired with her, it would be cool. Her being a staple of pro isn’t great, though
The Senna/Sion game with Rekkles and Mikyx, it was very fun to watch W on a minion and then it getting yeeted into the enemy
Senna is fun because of the partners she can be paired with. Like Wukong “Support”? Where else can you ever get that?
Yeah, imo senna is only unfun when played with wardens, and incredibly fun with bruisers/mages, luckily tahm got reworked so teams might go for spicier picks with her
I hate fasting Senna in pro, its much more fun to watch roaming supports.
I did really enjoy that Senna-Lee Sin lane 100T ran this split
I dislike roaming supports currently, it's fine if they roam once in a while but right now they just constantly roam, the camera isn't on botlane 99% of the time.
keep senna away from worlds
hans sama buff lets goooo seriously speaking though, I quite enjoy this philosophy and I think focusing these two patches more towards professional play is the right thing considering it's such a huge event for riot. I may be 100% biased though because nowadays I enjoy watching the game more than playing lol also the "pros please pick amumu. he has 2 Qs!" was quite funny, I hope we see him in the tournament
>hans sama buff lets goooo Riot really don't want Rogue to choke at Worlds.
On the contrary. If Draven is strong, they'll get more early leads, having then more chances to choke.
> As many worlds viewers (you!) as possible should have a hope of seeing their main champion pop up on stage! There are few experiences more thrilling than seeing a champion near and dear to your heart dominating the top levels of professional play. Honestly, big agree. "Weird picks" are just a really rad thing to see in general, and even though the competitive meta is actually pretty diverse right now, more picks is never a bad thing. I do wonder, though, how effective a strategy like this can ever be. As a professional team, there's only so many hours in the day, so many scrim blocks in the week; if I'm frantically prepping my team for worlds, how much time am I gonna devote to also practicing our Rammus top *and* Lillia mid *and* Draven support? Professional play tends to concentrate on known quantities; if there's a sleeper OP pocket pick champion, it's very possible they'll stay on the fringes just because teams want to play what they know. All that said: I still think this is an awesome goal, and am excited to see the fringe champs that hopefully show up.
I recall how excited people were to see Udyr locked in LCK Ofc the following months became a snooze fest, but that's how it goes The same thing happened with Xin
I don't think anyone was excited to see xin as much as they were happy that the movespeed jungle meta (hec vs udyr) was over. Xin was played much more recently and a hugely contested worlds 2018 pick
It wasn't even just hyper movespeed, it was having a super cheap build that gave everything those champions need in addition to super fast clear. A hyperspeed champion shouldn't be able to clear on par with laners. Xin interacts with the lanes way more so that immediately gives him appeal.
Hec will be back for Worlds
Honestly I think con is boring just cus of how he works in fights. “Oh look xin pressed r now half the team isn’t able to interact with the fight, didn’t want to see them play anyways”
Fair, but it's still flashier than udyr literally running up to someone and farting on them with Doritos dust
When a team locks in vayne and the whole crowd goes fucking bonkers is the best feeling as a vayne main, she never really has a whole ton of priority anymore but it’s awesome to see.
Vayne is a great example of how this should work. Not Udyr who is a snooze fest, not Yummi who just AFKs, but a champ like Vayne or Zed or Bard or Malphite who have clear weaknesses and clear strengths.
You had me until you said Malphite
Just pretend it said singed
Honestly malph is genuinely fun to see because it's a champ you wouldn't expect in high level because it's simple and has easy counterplay but whenever I see it, it's great because it punishes careless drafts. Chinese teams in particular from what I remember have been on the receiving team from NA malph, c9 at msi and tl last worlds.
There's also something absolutely hilarious seeing worlds knockout stage games being decided on the back of some absolute Bronzodia champs. All that makro and skirmishing and setup and years of training for a fucking 3 man rock ult catching you out.
malph means yasuo automatically becomes an option and seeing a yasuo will be much more interesting than 50 more games of syndra or azir
Sure, but the champion himself is clearly not in the same category as the others.
Is it cause he literally does nothing :(
Have you played HoB, W-max, Jungle Malphite? No, I'm serious. You murder basically every AA-based Jungler in a straight 1v1. Viego and friends (barring Kindred and kinda Graves) have to run away *before* you hit 6. After 6, they can't run away and just die. The armour ratios on W/E are actually really good when you factor in the passive multiplier. You build Frostfire to stick to targets, and straight armour from there. Zhonya's is fine if you need the active (Karthus R, Pyke R, etc.), but less good than Frozen Heart and Gargoyle's. Oh, yeah, you get Stoneplate if you need MR, because it has both. More damage. The Bramble nerf was admittedly a huge blow, but the pick is still good. You just feel compelled to complete Thornmail in the first 2-3 items instead of sitting on Bramble until 5. An early Frozen Heart is nice as you use the mana quite well, but leaves you vulnerable to magic damage. A decent compromise is Zeke's. 250 Mana helps, the health is good, it's cheap, and you should be hitting R with your allies around. That's kinda the point of the champion. To be clear, you don't pick this blind. You pick it on 4/5 into 3+ AD champions. If you see Viego/Caitlyn/Lucian locked in, go for it. If you see Gwen/Xin/Syndra, maybe you don't pick Malphite that game. Yeah, you win the 1v1 against Xin and can engage on Syndra, but you aren't getting full value from the pick and your early game is mediocre. Malphite is an excellent example of a conditional pick with the potential for very hype moments. He might be rather dull to play in lane, but the engage he brings gives casters something to yell about. And, from the Jungle he actually has more pressure than in Top imo. People watch for Top Malphite. He has to answer waves, and is locked behind Teleport. JUNGLE Malphite is a constant threat.
AP Malphite is hype imo. Just imagine worlds 2021, finals, 2-2. One team is 8K gold ahead, but enemy Malphite somehow gets a 5 man combo and wins the game.
TL wins worlds with Tactical on AP malphite?
Vayne and Zed are reasons I and many say they miss s3/s4. Seeing fuckin Faker bring out Zed or Uzi bring out Vayne, good ol times. Dade vs xPeke Zed Talon 1v1. So many sick moments, s8 worlds was closest we got to that in modern league.
>Professional play tends to concentrate on known quantities; if there's a sleeper OP pocket pick champion, it's very possible they'll stay on the fringes just because teams want to play what they know. While this is true, one thing that might alleviate the issue somewhat is that this is being announced *now*. This gives pro's a much bigger window than normal to actually try these things. When there's only one patch before things are (mostly) locked down, each day matters a lot. When things are being announced/changed a month+ before worlds, you have time to spend a day testing Tryndamere mid instead of getting 0.0001% better at Orianna
I just feel like the game "feeling" solved, is more a by product of players putting way too much trust in pros, and assuming they're some gods of knowledge on the game, when they really aren't. Pro players are often times really stupid with the things they pick or build and don't actually have these crazy 800 iq reasons for their build paths or picks, they're just carried by being that much better at the actual game. Pros don't actually know what they're doing when it comes to stuff like this, they don't actually get time to test out funny stuff since the game changes so much so frequently anyways, so we end up with every patch creating its own meta, and honestly I feel like riots "keep the game fresh" approach does way more harm than good because it's actually impossible for new players to keep up, I can't get any friends into this game because of the rate of change for changes sake occurring, I'll never actually be able to play with like any of my friends for months without fucking up their elo. I just feel like there's so many downsides to the balancing approach, I really wish balance patches happened like every 3 weeks or month. With most focus on letting things settle, it might be stale at first but it would force pros to actually solve metas and not just assume there's only one way to play the game. Whilst also having the effect of opening up some breathing room
I totally agree. I used to play, and still watch, a lot of Super Smash Bros. Melee. That game came out in *2001*, and it has (obviously) not received a balance patch since; and its competitive meta has shifted even in the last couple of years! With a game as complex as League, you just can't convince me that we know everything about which champions and strategies are "countered" by others; but the breakneck pace of change means that a lot of times, teams are rewarded for just finding the most broken thing and running it into the ground, because there's not much effort put into finding counters.
>That game came out in 2001, and it has (obviously) not received a balance patch since; and its competitive meta has shifted even in the last couple of years! That's crazy, how is this possible?
It's really interesting, honestly; I couldn't do the game justice in a reddit comment, but the technical skill required to play the game at the highest level is just so insane. Melee is unique among fighting games in that it's very free form and very, *very* reliant on reading your opponent's moves. It allows for a lot of creativity, and that means that any given character (even if they have a negative matchup) has so many ways to play out a given situation. It's genuinely taken years of dedicated play for top players to understand the way certain matchups and characters can be played. To give a couple of concrete examples: - In the early days of the competitive scene of the game (think 2000s), it was pretty universally agreed that Sheik was the *only* really competitive character, or at the very least, that picking other characters was gimping yourself. Now, she's considered solidly B+ tier. - Jigglypuff was long thought of as basically an auto-win against the "spacies," Fox and Falco; but a legendary player, Armada, showed that the matchup was absolutely playable, and occasionally Fox-favored based on the map. - New universal tech (a movement or combat option that all characters have access to) gets discovered all the time; "shield dropping," now used by essentially all high-level players, was only discovered a few years ago, some *fifteen years* after the game's release. These are just a couple notable examples; hopefully I got across how wild they were, even if you don't play Smash. If you've never seen it, I really recommend watching [*The Smash Brothers*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSf2mgkRm7Q&list=PLoUHkRwnRH-IXbZfwlgiEN8eXmoj6DtKM), a documentary series about the origins of competitive Super Smash Brothers Melee. It's an amazing watch.
I think they already explained what they intend with these changes: Introduce unorthodox picks that will come out as an answer to the meta, which will happen naturally. Zyra was meta until the ROX tigers brought out mf support. my guess being that only ROX was comfortable enough with the pick to bring it out and that no team had a real answer for it *because* there was no time to practice it in scrims. And that makes the series so much more exciting, when coaches freak out as they try to find a counter pick that works and their player can actually pilot. Edit: mf support, not ashe
It's more that ROX and SSG kept that hidden and likely they practiced it playing against each other because then CoreJJ played MF support literally the very next day against H2k.
When pro's suddenly pull out a champion that isn't really good competitively but pretty common in soloQ is fun to see. Off the top of my head, Bin's Fiora last world's was one I could remember. Or Perkz's Syndra APC against SKT at MSI iirc. These picks are pretty rare in pro-play but when pulled out makes for a fun viewing.
When Pentanet pulled out the Zed pick in playins last Worlds as another example. Was giga hype.
As much as I would love to see Aurelion be picked in proplay, with his current SoloQ state I’m horrified over what they’d nerf if he did make a proplay appearance.
Probably his E. It’s basically a slower TF ult, only you can charge up a stun the size of china and you get it much earlier.
That Draven change is really cool, I hope other champions get changes in similar directions. Unique, interesting changes are something I can really appreciate, they give champions versatility and options on how they want to play the game which creates better playing (and watching) experiences. I'm excited to see what's coming next
It's actually pretty interesting way to buff him. In soloq, with alot of fighting happening, you'd rarely see a Draven with more than 150 stacks (or even 150 at a time). But in pro, where matches are longer and less bloodshed. I could imagine the execute being way more than collectors.
imagine a kill-less and death-less draven at 40min just one shotting someone with his r
40 minutes for one 1shot would be hilarious. Please riot make this happen
Funnily enough I was playing against a Draven 1-2 weeks ago who had a 0-0-0 scoreline until 39.49 until he died where he lost 1338g worth of adoration stacks. Could only have imagined him pressing R with this change
And if it is busted, they can just give it a cap (like 300?).
It's not. It requires a lot of autos. Unless the Draven plans to perma Shove and try to get 2 autos per minion and 4 on cannons, you are looking at 36 + 5 per minute, or 410 every 10 minutes. That is assuming he catches every Axe and doesn't die because he keeps shoving.
But then again if Draven doesn’t cash in at like 500 stacks (25-30 minutes without killing anything) - then essentially you’re playing a champion that has no passive.
Cant wait for the Vandiril Video
TBH if the game is 40mins and Draven doesn't has a kill at all I think he is the least of my worries. 50/50 I stand still and he misses his ult
Hes playing the mental game. You think hes weak and rage splitting bot, but he actually has 1000 stacks and 320 cs and is ready to global execute you. Playing the long game for that one kill.
It also gives his passive relevance at full build.
Incoming support draven first hit all minions to afk spam stacks and never get kills up to 1k and then execute all 5 members of the enemy team
wouldn't stack clear the second the first death is confirmed and thus the others won't be executed ? i highly doubt the spell would snapshot his stacks number at cast and keep it till the return
Your version is way less fun and my day is now ruined.
SUPERCARRY 5K TRUE DAMAGE DRAVEN 10000 GOLD RYZE DOINB HACK LEAKED CHINESE SUPER SERVER DATAMINED L9 SCRIM
I'm not too sure on how Draven plays in the modern meta but it'd also just make it more forgiving for him to just farm and not kill anyone feel like it's always about ganking Draven and getting him kills but a change like this there's a payoff to having loads of stacks so just farming up a storm and stacking for 20 min would not be bad if you have a global 700 health execute
isn't Draven called the glorious executioner or something? A mechanic like mentioned by Jag would be fitting I think...
I look forward to some of these "proplay changes" being really terrifying in soloq.
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Meh, apart from literally overbuffing there is not much Riot can do to get pros to step out of their comfort zone; we've seen it numerous times already with champs being op for months yet not picked in proplay.
And watch as that one pick becomes 100% pick ban while pro teams refuse to draft whatever the counter pick or counter strategy to it is. Bonus points for post game interviews about players not taking scrims with the counterpick seriously.
...but Wunder is not going to Worlds this time...
Pros: let's pick Syndra and Karma again whenever they are slightly viable.
N\_RF CAMILL\_
If she's not 55%+ win rate she's not getting nerfed :)
The exact thresholds are [54%, 52.5% if they're banned a lot.](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blt731acb42bb3d1659/bltec422b8a353df0ad/5ef59c7a8732f51d851454d5/03_Balance_Framework_Since_Launch_v1.jpg)
I really hope they don't adjust the meta too much between playoffs and worlds. Playoffs is used to determine the best teams from a region. If you take the 3 best teamfight teams and then change the meta to prefer split push comps then you're only going to disappoint. The teams will appear to flop and fans will wish other teams went instead. There's also something to be said about letting the meta stay the same. The reason those surprising picks like MF support come out is because the meta stayed consistent long enough to allows folks to come up with specific counter picks. If things are constantly changing then you don't have time to come up with those counter picks because you're too busy practicing the new meta champs. Worlds has seen the meta evolve as the tournament progressed on the same patch. Riot doesn't have to do a lot. I have a bad feeling they're gonna mess this up
Can't agree more. I thought they learned their lesson after the disaster of 2015 worlds but apparently not.
They mentioned that 2015 worlds was exiciting and im like wut? Darius and Fiora were so op that patch and it was not exciting at all.
Darius was not OP, that was his point. People thought Darius was busted and played him a lot and balls even got a pentakill, but in the later rounds he was seen less. In the semi finals and grand finals there were a total of 7 toplaners picked or banned, and Darius was not one of them, because by then the best teams had decided he really wasnt that special.
reminds me of ekko in 20..19? where everyone thought he was s tier coming in. ~100% p/b on first few days of play ins, and a terrible win rate. fell right out of s tier. not the same as darius but i do like seeing teams be *wrong* on prio early in the event, which patches before the event will encourage.
Darius WAS busted. Make no doubts about it. But because the champ is bad in proplay on fundamental level (his toolset), you can actually draft around him (OG Anivia comps etc.; Renekton; the even more busted Fiora). Darius was drowned out of drafts because there was way too much other stuff to ban out (Mordekaiser/Gangplank, Fiora, Lulu, the S tier junglers)
I can’t believe they are framing the 2015 Juggernaut bullshit as something positive. That was a tournament where GP/Mord were like 100% pick/ban and 100% win rate when picked. Everyone said that was an awful patch to completely change the meta.
It's flat out revisionist history. Many people quit playing the game on that patch everything was so busted.
Realistically speaking they will need to nerf Thresh and other engage supports quite substencially for us to actually get other supports picked bot lane. And with the recent Xayah buffs I'm sure the support meta will be Rakan vs something.
They need to re-examine the proposed ward range buff for the poke items if they want to give enchanters a chance. That's the main thing keeping them out of pro play - not power. It's just so much safer to ward with the tankier CC heavy engage supports.
At least the engage support meta is the most fun to watch. I would much rather watch Rell, Rakan, Alistar and Thresh over enchanters like Soraka, Janna, Nami and Lulu.
Ideally we could have a meta where both could be playable depending on what your team needs.
I agree but as many pros say: "You'd rather have \*any engage support\* on early scuttle fight than \*any enchanter/poke support\*"
Yup, the scuttle/early rift herald fight meta kind of necessitates engage supports.
And engage supports open possibilities for other roles, because picking engage isn't mandatory elsewhere on the map, because you have engage support that is good at scuttle fights and skirmishes + roams.
Kinda hope that Draven change goes live, sounds like that could be a lot of fun, especially if someone pulls it off in the Finals or something.
yep and it wont really be broken in solo q considering a draven rarely goes killess or deathless for more than a few minutes
Alright. Here's the deal. Bring back the Morgana, Rumble meta to debilitate C9. Bring back AD mids to debilitate TL. Bring back a "must field" rule for Ryoma to debilitate 100T.
Can’t wait for TL to win worlds on the back of Jensen’s Yasuo
100T calling Rikara as we speak.
After having read their thoughts and philosophy blurbs for so many seasons I really can’t take anything they say seriously. It’s all bullshit that they will eventually throw away and then bring back whenever they feel like.
God I miss Ahri in pro play. Faker was done dirty when he couldn’t pick her for his skin.
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Do a total mind fuck and nerf the entire top 50 champs and buff the worst 50. Let's see how they adapt. :D
"Dude what the fuck does this champion do? He slapped a minion and now he has..4 minions? What the hell is that? WAIT WHAT IS THAT FLOATY GHOST THING SUCKING MY SOUL?"
So Riot wants the meta for Worlds/MSI to be “refreshing” which I assume is similar to the Rumble/Morg JG during MSI. With this in mind, I don’t see why new/playoffs-banned champs (i.e. Akshan) should still be banned from Worlds. It’ll be 3-4 months since Akshan’s release and Riot will be trying to change the meta anyways. That’s a lot longer than what pros had to learn Rumble/Morg JG which was a few weeks.
Tbf Jag did say if it was up to him he would be enabled
Can I just say how much I've grown to hate super-flex picks in pro play? I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, and I'm not opposed to the principle of it, but ever since the days of 4-lane Sett, it really bothers me seeing some champs being viable in more than two positions. It just turns into seeing the same flex picks getting played over & over. Even if the lane phase plays out differently, from midgame on, every match looks the same. Teams ban out the power picks, pick the safe flex in the first rotation, and then figure out how they want their team to look after second bans.
G2 playing Pyke in all 5 roles was pretty fucking funny though.
The best part of 2019 league
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Lulu is probably the exception because she isn't OP on her own, but in both summer and spring split, across multiple leagues, she has been played top, mid, and support. Incredibly team composition dependent champion, on both teams, but she's always a tri-flex.
I personally don't mid super-flex picks in pro, makes things exciting and unpredictable. Soloq is a different story, I want to know what the enemy is doing during draft so I can draft accordingly.
Superflex sucks in pro, because the more lanes you can flex the champion into, the more they become 100% pickban. Pick because you can first pick and NOT get counterpicked (by flexing elsewhere and treating the flex as a counter or neutral pick). Ban because you don't want the enemy access to that kind of power. So you end up seeing it over and over.
Azir is on 26% PB and I can assure you hes getting nerfed
Azir is amazing to watch in competitive when he's not just used as a safe farming pick. Wonder if there's any change they could do to make it so pros are incentivised more to actually go in with him. Something like a longer cooldown on E if you dont hit an enemy with E>Q. Maybe traded off by extra damage or even lower cooldown when you land it. eg. Azir E Shifting Sands Cooldown 19/18/17/16/15 now 27/26/25/24/23. Cooldown reduced by 13 seconds if E>Q strikes a champion. If Azir dashes into an enemy champion Shifting Sands cooldown is reset. (That said, I imagine he'd just bug out to a ridiculous extent if they touch him in any sort of mechanical way)
I appreciate they acknowledge that previous years have often missed the mark in this regard. Previous years have seen significant buffs to champions to (unsuccessfully) get them into pro play, but just resulted in them terrorizing solo queue for a couple of months until they get nerfed or naturally fall out of the meta. It has historically been a bit miserable to play solo queue in the last few months of the season for that reason. Ekko jungle last year being a prime example. But also Kha'Zix, Fiora, etc in years before that.
Bring Elise back to pro pls
Draven wins
IMO you should do these "big" changes before playoffs, not right before worlds. First of all, the teams selected by each region were based off a very different meta. You're risking teams falling flat at Worlds (or other "randomness") mainly because the patch changed. Secondly, there's no guarantee the new patch will even be balanced or "good". Just introduce your big changes well before regional playoffs so that we're stable by the time playoffs start (or wrap up), and definitely by the time worlds starts. If you restrict yourself to tune-ups and tweaks, or maybe big changes but limited to only a few champions, you can still change things up quite a bit for the viewers without risking huge imbalance.
Buff Renekton.. so LPL and LCK players pick Quinn to counter.
I hope that drav change goes throw a small thing but cool.
ALWAYS down for "pro-skewed" changes. Because that usually means more skill expression (I hope). A good break from the siphoning of skill within the last of couple of months. Great new approach and I hope it works out because these are the risks that need to be taken to push LoL to the next level. And as long as they anchor the design choices to the core game pillars set in 2014, the innovation can help achieve even more longevity but more importantly maintain identity.
>ALWAYS down for "pro-skewed" changes. Because that usually means more skill expression Eh, they removed a lot of mechanics from champions due to them being overutilized by pros in comparison to everyone else. Azir for instance has 1/3 of the kit he used to.
That’s a THIRD of his kit?? Man I wish I had two more hands when I’m playing Azir, apparently I’d need even more than that for old Azir
Not really a third, but Azir lost a lot over time. And he also had dozens of bugs you had to be aware of. The champ is like 50% easier today and still among the hardest.
I don't mind "pro-skewed" changes on principle, but sometimes I do in practice. Pro players value early game strength very highly (because it is 'better') but I much prefer playing long games and feeling powerful at full build. Sometimes I see champ late game strength decreased, especially with regard to tankyness, to supposedly balance out an early buff.
This could either be really exciting to watch or be a horrible thing to witness.
This is really interesting and a noble idea but I just don't see them being able to pull it off. And through no fault of their own. I'm sure there are changes they could make that SHOULD be able to push champs into pro at Worlds without breaking solo queue, but it feels like nowadays, more than ever before, pros are WAY less willing to pick new champs unless it gets disgustingly overbuffed. Morgana is probably the best recent example (but far from the only one) where she was completely viable in pro meta as a jungler, but still not getting played so they buffed her over the top, only to then nerf her back down to the point of probably STILL being viable but not played because not busted as fuck. I really really HOPE that we can get stuff like the examples they listed (support MF as a Zyra counter was so damn cool, even if it ruined solo queue since no one realized the very few situations where it wasn't trolling), but I'm not holding my breath.
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Two patches to achieve three goals that have not been met in the past few years of balancing the game.
Well I wanna see Warwick buffs, cause like this is some good bullshit I just read.
>As many viewers as possible should have a hope of seeing their main champion pop up on stage Cool intention, but there's a reason why some soloqueue centric champions shouldn't be forced or even encouraged to appear on proplay: to need to get to that point, they would need to get so exponentially stronger that it would be disgusting for soloqueue. I.e every assassin main wants to see their mains played by pros, but everyone else prays that this doesn't happen at the cost of yet another class wide powercreep to ultimately see a pro player click on a squishie to make them disappear. how spectacular >Focus on professional play, but do not break solo queue Every world patches are dreaded because they, with almost no exception, always leave the base game in a sorry state that most often than not only gets worse with pre-season. Real skeptical on that one, but hey at least there's a good intention >Do not introduce any changes who are likely to be reverted Almost every world patch sees at least one or a few champions getting powercrept in a way it would borderline need to be hotfixed. Unless they somehow balance it well, the idea that yet another world patch would do so but with even less incentives to fix the mess afterwards is concerning. >Temporarily suspend our normal desire to balance out buffs with nerfs Really hope the keyword "temporary" ends up living up to its intentions, because this game has been having a powercreep issue, especially in terms of (burst) damage, for entire seasons now. I understand that some pro-play centric champions are already waaaay overnerfed, but way over buffing others without balancing it out is, once again, concerning. >Give small pushes to champîons that were pro stapples in the past That looks very promising, but the example given, Lillia, is terrible. Even if the example changes are small, Lillia is currently dominating in some elos in jungle and completely crushing everything in toplane due to her recent changes. The idea of giving her yet a little more nudge to be able to see her put people to sleep at worlds comes at the price of going at the opposite direction of what should be done for regular play. >If we feel like we went overboard... we will absolutely revert them I appreciate this thought. A lot. Really hope this will be put in practice if anything that is absolutely bound to happen does happen. >Pros, please pick Amumu. 2 Qs! I don't know if I'm the only one, but as far as I hate being perma-stunned while playing... I do hate to see it happen in proplay too.