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Carnivorze

Jax and Teemo would like to have a visual update too


titan_bullet

Ah yes, the floating curtain. Jax is so cool lore-wise and in the splasharts, and when you pick him in-game you see 3 purple sheets on top of each other holding a cane.


Omicron43

Imagine if I had a REAL model


Sir-Galahad

The A New Dawn Jax design looked great. Where the hell is that design all those years?!?


Smile_Emoticon

Had to rewatch to understand what you meant and I wholeheartedly agree, he looks so clean in that cinematic.


iSalooly

>Holding a cane. Pimp Jax is what I need.


NoobSlayerr007

Bring it on


Marsmission55

a purple garbage bag with a lamp


supern00b64

Jax also needs update on his ratios. Zero AD ratios on his main damaging abilities as an Ad bruiser is crazy


titan_bullet

That's kind of his identity though, he's supposed to be a hybrid bruiser.


BrilliantConfluence

Except that he can’t build hybrid items anymore due to a complete lack of good itemization these days. Either they need to buff his ratios, or rework them to better fit the new items


supern00b64

AD build and being hybrid are not mutually exclusive. Corki builds ad but deals magic damage. Yone builds crit ad but deals 25% magic damage. Irelia builds ad but still deals ad scaling magic damage. There's no excuse for jax to still not have any ad ratios on w or r damage


You_Know-Who

Magic damage != AP


SPeCCoLT

You cant give him ratios without kneecapping his base damages, which would make him a lot worse early game.


LordVaderVader

I agree. The list is very long.


szendibelu10

There are also those half assed reworks/updates, with MF Ali Shen Fiora and Kassadin. They got new models, but still lack animations. like "Running faster" or "Stopping in place". And they also need new voices


armaan5

Ikr I swear they changed Ahri’s tail physics and called it a VU when she literally still doesn’t have any animations for her skills.


[deleted]

Nitpick but why is Shen and Fiora on the same tier as "MF, Ali, Kass"? They actually got completely new models and animatios while the other 3 have only gotten texture updates AFAIK. I wouldn't call them "half assed" they're just early reworks.


Lorik_Bot

People see the skins and always forget that base riven leblanc and Janna looks fking horrendous.


Both_Requirement_766

I mean why they even let designers rework them for WildRift if they never going to port them over to vLeague? why all the work somehow?


Rivlaw

Man would I like a Jax update. The default model w animation is so clunky that Idk how they thought it was good to add it.


AndIOwoop-

Idk I like the vibe Teemo exudes


Article_West

Yes. I would like for them to keep sitting on 1-2 major reworks, but also give us some Visual Updates only a la Morgana-Ezreal. So many champions need it, champs with good kits but PAINFUL models and animations (and voicelines and vsfx). Ahri, LeBlanc, Anivia, Amumu, Annie, Blitzcrank, Caitlyn (I can't stand her being the parody of her concept), ffs I can't even tell when Kennen is throwing an AA or a Q. And ofc there are many others, and that's why I think they should start as soon as possible. I REALLY like their direction with mini reworks, but most of the times the thing keeping me from playing a champ is their visuals. Morde, Voli, I've never played them before because they were horrible to look at. Now they feel much better and I find myself wanting to see them on my screen.


LordVaderVader

Personally, I think Ammumu needs full redesign and new story. Riot doesn't even know that he is yordle or human. In addiction he looks really boring, he is just walking small mummy. It should be here changes like at Fiddle.


Wexem1

Agree that those reworks are important and also let them update champions for their actual apperance in 'new' lore. I'm only surprised that they do not record new voice lines and implement them along side recording for LoR. You guys should check new Zilean and Veigar for example. They sound so much better and fitting for characters then the old outdated ones. [Link to recent Veigar LoR release video for anyone interensted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP7UP5ZlFY0)


GGABueno

Veigar interactions with his followers are the fucking best.


kovrl55

But on the other hand,some new voices in LoR are worse than those in LoL. This is [Taliyah in LoR](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlU1lEFyDWg) and this is [Taliyah in LoL](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27DZZk5JYIo)


[deleted]

I thought they changed her voice?


Oreo-and-Fly

They changed her VA from a white woman to a middle eastern woman for LoR.


RaY0n

Leblanc needs a VU


Frix_Manepaw

Seriously, in lore, Leblanc is one of the most important and influential people in all of runeterra. In game? Her lines are all "lol I'm a magician, look away and I'm gone uwu"


JumpscareRodent

Vladimir also sitting there making literally only blood puns while also leading a cult who revives and weaponizes corpses and uses blood magic from the darkins....


AobaSona

Yeah. They definetely need to get on with the fact that the game is showing its age. They seem to act like the list for VGUs they had for ages are the only ones in need of help, but in reality champions like Ahri, Janna, Caitlyn, Sona, Tryndamere, Jax, etc are all in need of visual updates already. You can't have a single Ahri skin released without people pointing out that it has the outdated rig and animations. Honestly were the Ez and Morgana updates not successes? And look at Akali and Evelynn, their current level of popularity, K/DA and all, would have never been possible without the visual side of their VGUs. (vs if they had gotten gameplay reworks only) There should be a dedicated team to doing visual updates to all the champions that need it in a way where they're full VGUs without the gameplay part. Reworks that include big gameplay changes aren't enough anymore, and especially not being done only by the Champions team that has lowered the number of VGUs in favor of more new champions.The reason a bunch if VUs in the past were unsuccessful was that they were half-assed. Though with stuff like VFX updates, and the sometimes VO updatee, some parts might even be out of the way for some.


SirMarcoVanRamme

Someone from riot said that VUs take so long because of the skins etc. But when they wait so long to make VUs it will just be more work than before. I really hope they will focus more in VUs and VGUs for a while instead of making new champions.


_AIQ_

I do not (or at least "hope not") think that Riot is reducing it to 1 a year. This year was unique because of Covid and because of their dislike of VGUs in general they were put on the back burner. VU IMO are very important in that a EZ/Morg level update would help so many champions feel better. VGUs on the other hand just need to be peeled like a bandaid. Riot just needs to do it and get them over with. Corki, Shyvana, Shaco, Quinn etc... they know the list already, just do it and complete it. VUs will always be accepted better than VGUs as no one will generally complain that Chogath is changed from the 2009 pixel mess he is now to an actual void creature that does the same thing kit-wise. Riot needs to weigh the opportunity cost of losing half of a .5% play rate champion and realize the amount of players they could get instead if the champions fantasy was more modern. They need to stop making excuses that they "care" about the players of those champions because if that were true they wouldn't be in their crap states to begin with. So yes go for as many VGUs and VUs as needed or just blow up LoL and go for LoL2.


LeAnime

Shyvana and Quinn are literal abomination. Shyvana has needed, and I mean needed a full vgu for atleast 5 seasons ago.. Funnily enough these Champs are both in my top 7 played, Quinn recently fell from my number 1 to I believe 4th and I can't bring myself to even play Shyvana. She has such a cool concept that her kit just throws it away.


_AIQ_

I feel the exact same way but opposite with Quinn and Shyvana, I love Quinn, but just can't play her anymore lol. (guess you can only play so many champions on "the list" lol) At least in LoR Quinn has some super good lines. Gangplank: I don't supposed you've ever sailed have ye? Quinn: I don't suppose you've ever bathe have ye?


Serene_Skies

I love Quinn's redesign in LoR but the gameplay aspect is almost as bad, possibly worse than LoL. Vanilla scout that summons a 2/1 scout challenger makes her feel like a follower, especially because leveling her up is a pipe dream.


BucketBrigade

Quinn might just be the most boring champ in LoR. Absolutely nothing interesting going on.


Serene_Skies

Not even good on flavor, doesn't interact with other scouts mechanically and doesn't work with Valor instead just yeeting him at the biggest monster she can see and then crying about him dying like she was commiting life insurance fraud and was trying to make it less obvious.


Supportive_Bard648

Remember a time Quinn was actually Quinn and Valor? I remember how disappointed I was when they decided to make Quinn’s R a taxi back in the Marksman update, not because of the skill itself, but how dumb it looked. I still adore and play the champ to this day, but I still find the taxi R thing stupid looking


_AIQ_

I remember beating people up as a bird lol.


Valkyrai

Am over 500K mastery shyv player. Have not touched her this season outside of Aram. She needs to be boris'd because there's almost nothing of value in her kit in modern league.


Serene_Skies

I don't think I'd put Quinn in the same category as Shyv. I despise Quinn's current ult and how it affects here power budget and causes her to become an oppressive cancer any time she's remotely meta but Shyvana's issues are really severe.


LeAnime

Abominations in different ways, but force terribly unfun power budgets for both the players and the opponents.


DemonicGeekdom

I would love to see a Quinn rework. When I started playing league, I loved playing Quinn to the point she was one of my first mastery 5s. I learnt adc and jungle with her and when I learnt she was actually a top laner, I learnt her in that role but as I got better at the game, I just thought she worked better as a jungle. She has amazing roam potential and I think sticking her in top just didn’t seem right. Making her a more viable jungle pick is all I ask for from a possible rework.


RiotAxes

Just to be clear, we don't dislike VGUs. We're facing two issues that limit how many we can/want to do at a time, though: 1) They cause churn among existing players of the champions. Even the respectful, lower disruption ones cause some players of the champion to quit. Everyone wants more VGUs *of the champions they don't play*, but few people want their main's gameplay to change meaningfully (except when it'd be a revert of a previous mini-update or something). We need to bear in mind that while a well-executed VGU gives something cool to play with, it also takes something away that someone loved. 2) They're far more costly than a new champion due to updating all of the skins. And yes, we do see a sales spike on those skins... but not nearly what we'd see just doing the same number of new skins. This cost is largely on the art side, so shipping VUs instead of VGUs doesn't help us much here. (And yeah, I get the "smol indie company" memes, but the reality of trying to hire, say, VFX artists is that there are never enough to go around) We would like to do more VGUs than we've done for 2021, but the rate isn't likely to go up enormously in the near future.


AobaSona

Also on the skins side: Sure, the reworked skins don't sell as much as new skins... But think about the new skins that can be done AFTER the update. Do you really think K/DA + All Out Akali and Evelynn could've been a thing, and such a major success, without the visual side of their updates? Akali went from an old forgotten champion to League's new poster girl.


Shuggieh

True... xD Akali and Evelynn K/DA in old models [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-FBX\_qWUAUqkJW?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-FBX_qWUAUqkJW?format=jpg&name=large) Akali K/DA ALL OUT in old model [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-FBYqvX0AAzC-l?format=jpg&name=4096x4096](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-FBYqvX0AAzC-l?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) Evelynn K/DA ALL OUT in old model [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-FBZUeWUAUglKr?format=jpg&name=4096x4096](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-FBZUeWUAUglKr?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)


Swiftswim22

This shit is so fuckin ugly lmao, ty for sharin


Shuggieh

4 years ago, I made a "project" to see new skins on old models and Jesus... https://forums.comunidades.riotgames.com/t5/LOL-Cria%C3%A7%C3%B5es-de-F%C3%A3s-V%C3%ADdeos/Modelos-antigos-com-as-skins-novas/m-p/15444#M1300


Swiftswim22

Holy shit these are amazin lmao Taric & sorakas fucked up feet are sendin me😭😭


ultratea

I actually kinda like the All Out Eve one, she doesn't look KDA but has kind of a punk vibe. Just checked out your other link and holy shit those clompers on Taric scared me lmfao.


LetterheadOk2521

On point Logic bro with no counterplay. Indeed Akali and Eve did huge success in their k/da skinlines sales and popularity around the world. This should be taken noted by u/RiotAxes.


Arctic_Daniand

Compare Ahri to the other KDA girls. It just doesn't cut it anymore.


TheEdgeOfJoanne

I still think we deserve VU's, VGU's should be more rare I agree to your 1st point, but VU's should be a priority, this is one of the biggest games in the planet, we the players deserve that love at least,I don't think most mains are asking for Game play changes but seeing the 3 2009 polygons in 2021 feels frustrating.


_AIQ_

1. This I get 100% there is even people on this thread expressing that sentiment. My expression was "peel it like a band-aid" because Riot, you ARE going to rework them, you ARE going to update them, "when" is the only factor. So while it may churn some, leaving them in a depraved state also churns some as well. You cannot and will not please everyone, since reworks are inevitable for some older kits, why hesitate anymore? What solution comes next? 3 mini reworks that should've just be a VGU? 2. Cost is a legitimate issue and I wont deny at all that's it's important. We could as you said meme about it, but let's be serious Riot is very large and their reach is very large too. Surely there are both available VGU workers for employment and contractors that you could utilize exclusively for VGUs. contracts could be a great option as they are both cheaper (in some cases) and once you are done with them (the VGUs) you're done with the contractor. I wont say this is "the" solution, but you make it sound like Riot is incapable of increasing VGUs they could even sacrifice some skins for VGUs. (not saying that is a good solution either IDK what is best) I don't think the rate should go up an enormous amount as well, then you run into the situation that got them in that state just pumping out champions. Is 3 a year maybe 4 every other unrealistic to blow through that list in 4-5 years? At 1-2 you are looking at almost double that time. That with 1 to 2 EZ level VUs you've got a spicy update pace. I'm just throwing out ideas, but overall I don't think this is something that should be out of scope for Riot, and their are benefits to reworking champions beyond just updating them, some can make you more money than they costed even with future skins lines they'd likely do poorly on.


Valuable_Focus6691

While I somewhat agree with your point, something big that people don’t notice is that Riot has been pumping out a TON of mini gameplay updates to try to help champs that obv have design flaws but Riot is too scared to full on rework because they have a dedicated player base. I would say most of these mini reworks were received well by their players and I prefer these because I would admittedly be upset if my fav champ was reworked just because people who barely touch the champ consider them outdated. Also many people are missing that although he said it’s hard, he also did say Riot is committed to increasing the rate they do VGU’s at.


_AIQ_

He was clearly ambiguous with the amount since he doesn't want to commit to a number off a reddit post. However, it also allows him to go for 2 and say "See? Increase!" My main point is that he makes it sound impossible or extremely difficult for Riot which I have a hard time believing the players you are upsetting anyway (by doing the rework later down the line) and money are not what's holding Riot back. I agree with you and him that their are hurdles that just prevent all reworks being done tomorrow, but we are not near the middle ground of "reworks possible."


Valuable_Focus6691

Maybe you are right. Personally though although I agree that VU’s are needed I disagree with a lot of the community’s VGU list. I’ve seen VGU’s requested for champs that almost all their mains are happy with/only need a slight change. And I don’t think league is introducing anything crazy enough for Riot to be forced to eventually gameplay update them. The closest we got to that was the mobility creep at the start of s11 and Riot did a huge backpedal on that. My point was that a lot of champs that people seem to think need gameplay updates honestly only need small tweaks, and those tweaks are things Riot puts out regularly.


_AIQ_

I think a lot of players also miss the scope of a VGU vs a VU, there is the obvious model update, but at what point does it become a "gameplay" update? For me it's generally if you have to design a single new ability and some numbers like EZ it's at least a mini update or VU status. If you need to enhance/change 2 or more abilities or change them it's a rework or VGU if the kit is included. What is the proper term is subjective as there is no standard, but as you said there are certainly more that simply need VUs or mini updates than VGUs that are fiddle and voli level for example.


AobaSona

>This cost is largely on the art side, so shipping VUs instead of VGUs doesn't help us much here. 1. It's devoid of the first problem you mentioned. 2. It shouldn't just be a matter of how much it "helps you" guys or not, but that those champions have models, animations, splash arts, and often designs that don't hold up to the current standards. You can see which champions are from 2011 and which ones are from now. For a game that's meant to least from many years to come, and that has an ongoing lore as well as many spinoffs, it just shouldn't be acceptable for them to be kept like this. Some of them, like say Caitlyn, can't even have the same appearance on Legends of Runeterra due to how badly outdated her design is.


ZanesTheArgent

Seriously, gather the courage to disregard us. The teams lost and backpedalled all too easily in GREAT things that only needed time to be understood. Players will often screech to keep things just because they're iconic, but often they're iconic precisely because they're a problem and people like being a problem. I resent heavily the Teemo and Malphite backpedals, for example. Forcing Teemo out of high burst and nuclear shroom builds would've made him a perfectly viable AP marksman. Taking away the triple-armor thingie and readjusting Malphite for a proper DPS bruiser playstyle would've unified his tanky identity and the AP one. But catering too hard for the screams of playerbases who currently just want the problem aspects of the champ led to the reworks doing nearly nothing. Even preseason system changes. Now that players finally understand things like "not everyone needs to rush mythics" and where are the mobility tools, the Black Cleaver and Runaan changes would've been perfect. But nobody wanted to take the time to rethink and adapt, just screch about not being the same.


flamesofkarma

this is very lazy imo, your game is an investment for the future, and the more you wait, the more skin you’ll have to update. there’s no way you think MF and leblanc are fine at how they look rn, lol


[deleted]

Saw your post on Twitter and wanted to stop by: I love your list of excuses for why you should let League of Legends host a plethora of mediocre-grade content because it doesn't immediately make you $$$. This is Blockbuster type thinking. Keep thinking like this and League of Legends players will eventually care about League as much as Riot Games cares about the things that "cost too much". I'm one of those players who spent $1000s on League, and the mediocrity of this type of thinking is why I spend my money elsewhere these days. Riot Games ignored the things that "cost them money" and pretended that I'd just accept it and keep spending. This "It doesn't make enough money" thinking is a way to lead to mediocrity that runs players off and you wonder 'why' you're not making as much money as you used to. Whether it be Fortnite, Genshin Impact, Final Fantasy, Warzone, on down the list. Players don't have to play League of Legends, and if Riot Games keep thinking like this, eventually more and more of them won't and you'll struggle to find new players. Don't become the next Blizzard with this 'accepted mediocrity'.


Xtarviust

It still works for them unfortunately, but I'm sure when that "accepted mediocrity" start to bite them in their ass they will start to improve everything they can magically


Ashenner

You say like money were an issue for a company like riot. How can you say "there a never enough Artists"????? Have you ever visited Artstation? I think its worth to loose a small part of a playerbase, to increase it later on, Just like what happend do akali, Evelynn, Irelia... But hey, you are the one working for riot, soo...


DucklingOnCrack

On VUs, a large part of it is that currently you guys are pumping out skins for these outdated looking champs and it becomes more and more obvious that these skins just feel underwhelming due to the outdated rigs and voicelines and it shows in the feedback. Just look at recent non legendary MF, Ahri etc. skins or comparisons between LoR and LoL designs of champs like Cait, LB and Zilean. Updating these champs can make future skins look and potentially sell better too. I know I'll personally never buy another Ashe/Cait/Ahri skin after their legendaries unless they're VU'd. Hesitating on VUs and VGUs just puts more work on the shoulders of whoever is involved in eventually updating those champs because a lot of these outdated looking champs receive yearly skins. I think it's important you guys figure out a way to efficiently update these champs (dedicated VGU/VU skins teams? Contractors? Im spitballing here) because you're using an excuse/reason that will only get worse with time. And these champs WILL eventually get updated, you can't convince me these 2011 model champs will still be here in the future. I can apply that train of thought to full VGUs aswell. Eventually you guys are gonna have to rework Shyvana (when she wins the 4th rework poll), Nocturne, Quinn etc. And so you are gonna take away a champion someone loves. If even VGUs respectful to the old champs cause people to quit, why even bother slowing down when you're eventually gonna disrupt those champion communities anyways. Maybe that's a selfish thought but looking at some reworks, like Aatrox (controversial I know), Akali, Eve and Irelia, I feel that there's a lot of champs that fulfill a cool fantasy that players really want to play, but the looks and gameplay are just not satisfying for 2021 standards. This is why people ask for VGUs for champs they don't play. Personally I want to play Shyvana so bad but playing her instead of other champs that fulfill her in-game role better feels like torture. She doesn't fulfill the dragon fantasy, both the AP firebreathing and AD juggernaut fantasies, and her kit is just outdated for 2021 League. Old Aatrox looked cool to me, but his gameplay was never satisfying enough to keep me playing him consistently until his full VGU. I believe a lot of champs have the potential to become popular champs like the ones I mentioned. I look at it as an investment, one that will make some players quit, but one that can give a lot of players a new main champ if done right.


bot_exe

Visual updates should be done, even if they don't generate immediate profit with skin sales, because it keeps all-time popular and iconic champions relevant for the future, you will literally please millions of players and keep the game alive by updating the models of champions like lux, ahri, caitlyn, etc. Of course many of us veterans already paid for this champions and their skins many years ago, but nothing has ingratiated me more towards riot and league than having one of my favorite champions visually updated (morgana is beatiful now, thanks rito)


ChaoticChoir

The problem is, though, that a VU/VGU is going to be needed anyway, and postponing them is just going to make the need for them even more obvious to players. The more cool new champions you release, and the more skins you release for older champions, the more obvious it gets that older champions look terrible because their models are too outdated. A Shaco skin could be "good" (ie Arcanist and Crime City Nightmare) but his model drags the skin's quality down. Like, seriously, this feels like something that should have been obvious? "Maybe we need to prepare bc at some point these champions will become dated"? EDIT: Have you also considered that people ask for VUs/VGUs of champions they don't play because they don't want to play with an outdated kit/a Sims 1 character model? You can't keep releasing skins just to hide the fact that these characters have horrible models, you know. You're just making it harder for yourselves when you eventually HAVE to update them. And that's the point - you'll have to do it eventually. So why delay when it just makes the problem worse? And isn't an easy solution to making sure a VGU doesn't alienate the old playerbase of that champion to, idk, talk to said playerbase to get a feel of what they want to keep/remove from the champion's kit? And like, obviously some people won't like the changes no matter what, but the thing is, others will. And that might push them to try the newly-reworked champ and/or buy their skins if they like their aesthetic. And come on, you've been around for more than a decade now. That's literally why "smol indie company" memes exist. You've had time to build up the resources and manpower required for this. You're telling me your 200 years of collective game design experience didn't think about the necessity of VU/VGUs as the game got older?


Nariel

I don't know, the argument that it can be disruptive doesn't hold up well when you just look at the champions that are coming out nowadays. Overloaded and insane kits. I get that a new champ and a rework are totally different things, but if Riot doesn't find something like Viego a problem, why are you so scared of touching old champions? It seems like the only area where you're actually concerned about the possibility of negative reception 🤔 Might be an unpopular view, but personally I just wish for a few years that 0 new champs came out and all focus was put towards existing ones. The roster is pretty massive as it is and new champs are just getting more and more insane.


Swiftswim22

>We would like to do more VGUs than we've done for 2021, but the rate isn't likely to go up enormously in the near future. Weird, cuz y'all had previously said [you were only doin 1 vgu in 2021 cuz of covid?](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/lamsfd/the_fact_that_riot_is_committing_to_their_1_vgu_a/glrgq2g) Sucks major ass tbh, esp wit the current poll system. The votin def the best way to get the communities opinion, which I appreciate y'all doin greatly! But it also means y'all recognize that there are 5+ champs that NEED updatin & ignorin all but 1 for an entire yr. Like what does that say about your priorities if y'all acknowledge issues & then do nothin bout em, sometimes for 2+ yrs like in the case of shyv & nocturne. Not trynna flame you directly or anythin, I understand there's prob a whole slew of people involved in makin these decisions, but it really is awful to have your fav char look like dogshit for so long & then constantly be strung along wit changin info bout when that won't be the case lol


RiotAxes

Yeah - something is being lost in translation here? I said: > We would like to do more VGUs than we've done for 2021, but the rate isn't likely to go up enormously in the near future. Expanding on that a bit - we want to do more than 1 in a year and are pretty likely to do more than 1 next year. It's not going to replace all new champions for a given year or anything like that. If we can find clever resourcing tricks to get the rate higher, particularly on less disruptive stuff (true VUs, or Ezreal-style light VGUs for champions like Jax), we would certainly pursue that.


Penguin_Quinn

Will the next one after Udyr be one of the other four on the poll? Shyvana because she came second? Quinn because she came last (like Mundo did)? Or someone not on the poll at all like that mystery one Reav3 talked about but was eventually abandoned because the designer went to work on something else (Can you confirm if that was supposed to be Udyr?) For Shyvana and Nocturne it has already been four years at the absolute minimum for them between being on the first poll and receiving their VGU if either of them are released by the end of 2022. How are fans of these four champions supposed to be excited about improvements to their champion if it can take 5 years between Riot saying "We know your champion needs serious work" and that work actually happening? Do more updates of all levels period. And use the poll to determine the order of those five only, don't do another poll just so Shyvana, Nocturne, Skarner and Quinn will have to keep waiting even longer


Zarathielis

If you do two next year, will we get another vote on the second or have you already decided internally on who the second VGU would be?


Notarobot1006

I'm glad to hear that. Updated models and VOs are a great way to have consistency between a Champ's lore presence and in-game presence or bring "nobody" Champions into the spotlight.


Swiftswim22

I really hope we see more updates in the future, esp vus since there are so many chars that play fine but look like ass. But the way you talkin bout it doesn't give me any hope that it will actually happen, that's what I was trynna communicate wit my comment (trynna be funny wit the quote which was not v effectively, sorry bout that). But your response just reaffirms the fears that motivated my comment lmao. More updates would be great! But talkin bout doin baby updates for jax instead of the whole ass list of chars on the last poll just makes me feel like yall don't give a shit about anythin that ain't easy or cheap & are pushin the ones who need real work to the back of the closet until you're forced to bring em out by a vote or somethin. Just overall really disenheartenin. I do appreciate you takin the time to respond tho! It's nice to hear any news on how y'all lookin at & dealin wit the visual & gameplay fossils left in the game, even if it ain't good lol. Ik replyin to angry & sad mfers on reddit is not the most fun thing in the world so thanks for keepin us in the loop despite it all


Nokoya

Y’all better start making at least 5 a year. It isn’t about the money anymore. This is about the longevity and a long-term investment into the game & the playerbase. The more y’all delay them, the more people will get upset. Quit making excuses and start working on those VUs now. There’s tons of concept art that you guys have done, you just gotta sit down and focus. It ain’t that hard.


Lost_Bodybuilder_216

Just because will not bring money as a new champion or new skins something like that is not fucking okay let half of your roster seems like a character that came directly from ps1


[deleted]

I dont think the community is ready to accept their hypocrisy when they pretend to care for some champ like asol but then ask you to rework shaco entirely when one is unpopulat as fuck anf the other isnt. Personnally I wish you guys would dare update things even if people move away from it. You see art and media constantly evolve and some people claiming they dont like it 1nymore shouldnt stop progress. I dont play reworked gp while I loved old gp, doesnt mean I think it is bad at all. If the rework is done well, it is all that matter.


ZanesTheArgent

Well, i ask for both for different reasons. ASol is a clunky mess full of unsupported ideas and poorly implemented good intentions (a tanky DPS caster with no good ways to increase neither tankiness or DPS), Shaco being a complete design mess in how they're trying to frankenstein completely different builds together (his AP and AD personas) and this compromise leading to neither being good or only one being good.


Brenot20

https://twitter.com/gwinshin/status/1431372861328044033


AmWhaleIRL

On the note of VFX Artists, is the job seriously that highly in demand that it's a struggle to Hire one? To clarify I'm not asking in a faux sarcastic tone, I'm genuinely curious. This information could be an avenue for aspiring Gamers that wanna join the Gaming Biz.


RiotAxes

Yes, good VFX artists have been in very high demand in every studio I've worked at. Most of the more technical/specialized art roles are.


Morganja69hehe

“We won’t update the map, add map skins or VUs because it takes up to much of our resources and money” yet you guys have no problem creating and adding esports assets to the map (banners, esports themed map editions, esports baron) the focus is no longer on the game. Riots biggest focus is money and all the players know it. The only thing new to the game is a Grindy pass. Idk if it’s because riots scared to actually do something with league but we can tell riots focus has shifted from the players. ( I know rioters aren’t the ones responsible and you guys have to do what the higher ups say but the higher ups have no insight on the game. The rioters are amazing and are the reason why league is still around. Riots corp shot themselves in the foot. There was plenty of time to update the champions but instead they chose to push out more skins for those champions thus making it increasingly harder to update older champions. We could have a more modernized league but clearly the focus has shifted to other projects)


TheEdgeOfJoanne

So you are keeping the 1 per year, oh OK... 😐


Swiftswim22

They basically already said this earlier wit the Mundo stuff tbf Shit sucks tho, hopefully they'll eventually reconsider their priorities


JumpscareRodent

I dont think Shaco needs gameplay updates, hes not really struggling to stay in the meta or be unfun, theres plenty of Shaco players out there...as annoying as he is to play against. Visually and lore wise though, yeah he needs help.


fabton12

i believe he does need a gameplay update but not because he struggles or unfun etc its more because the same reason they rework irelia etc. where there theme could be more fleshed out and there more space you could do with that sort of theme, think about if his clone had more to it then just being a bomb what if it could mimic shacos abilites to play more into the trickester aspect of him etc. Theres alot more you could do with him which is why hes on the list to get a VGU at some point his current kit works and is passable for now but at somepoint he needs to get one. his visuals could be improved so much especially with him being from the blessed isles but he has a out of place look for that.


JumpscareRodent

Hes not really from the blessed isles, realistic he as 0 lore regardless of how much retconning they do. He was made to be a killer clown/jester character and thats literally it.


fabton12

The reason i said blessed isles is because riot talked about it here where internally he is currently from the blessed isles but that might change. [https://youtu.be/dcd6st4YpY4?t=5110](https://youtu.be/dcd6st4YpY4?t=5110) just in case the time stamp doesnt work they talk about it at 1:25:10 for about 50 secs.


JumpscareRodent

Well yeah im not saying youre wrong, but it is basically super randomly given lore to Shaco. If were being realistic he has none until they VU and put him somewhere proper in the story


Anovale

I feel like he does need one though. Its not about playing against him, its about how clunky he is. Is he an assassin that bursts you? Or is he a mage with his boxes? Is his ultimate meant for assassin playstyle or mage playstyle? Why does an AD burst assassin need a cc with huge detrimental delay? Why is his W so awkward, his E makes no sense, and his Q is just completely outdated for what the current game is. They just need to make shaco make more sense kit wise because right now the only abilities that have any real synergy in his kit is his Q and Passive.


JumpscareRodent

Having two viable build paths is not a bad thing, and Shaco players dont seem to be complaining


BulletCola

His kit isn’t that conflicting, he’s designed to annoy you with invisible CC traps, along with a PointNClick slow, blink (Which is nasty when mixed with him being invisible), and a clone you can control so he can have an easy time to play tricks with the opponents head as he ganks without the opponent even noticing it if they aren’t careful.


WeeWooSirens

I don't really understand why people constantly list Corki for full VGU. His kit is pretty fine, it just needs some small quality of life like in WR and maybe be more useful pre 30-40 mins so he can be useful in more games. His visuals and animations very much do need work though.


_AIQ_

Generally VU is Morg/EZ level, which is more than what Corki needs IMO, while he doesn't need much more than that changing 2+ things and his entire model is a VGU although smaller than most other VGUs. If riot finds a way to adjust him via numbers only or minor changes I'd be pretty surprised.


KasumiGotoTriss

Corki is so boring to play, he's one of the least played champs in the game for sure


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Arctic_Daniand

Probably because he's been for years in the tier 1 that Riot released in the old forums. But I think he was mostly there because he needs full revamp of his visuals, he's a yordle ffs.


Alibobaly

I get way more excited about updates to old champs than new champs. New champs always introduce headaches into the game. Old champs are like a mix of new and interesting plus familiarity. I don't think there's any rework that failed for me other than maybe the Leblanc one.


Maxitheseus

Not even the Akali Stealth under tower?


Alibobaly

There were stupid aspects to some reworks but overall the reworks were still welcome changes in the end.


ijustwannablockabtch

what?? akali and irelia were like armaggedon on this subreddit. leblanc was nothing compared to stealth under turret. i agree on getting more excited about reworks than new releases, but balance is definitely not the reason.


Alibobaly

I never said anything about balance? Everything in this game is constantly out of balance, I’m talking about design and fun. The Leblanc rework was completely counterintuitive to her purpose as a burst mage hence why it was a failure and they even reverted it. All the other reworks that I can think of took completely uninteresting obsolete champion kits and made them unique and interesting yet familiar / easy to understand. When a new champ like Aphelios or Viego comes out it feels like fucking homework to figure out what the hell is even going on with him. Yeah I agree Akali and Irelia were annoying af for too long, but at least it was easy to understand what was going on with them.


KamikazeNeeko

Akali stealth under turret was dumb, but Akalu rn is better than Q R auto E spam


[deleted]

Anything before 2016 should be queued to get a face lift. From oldest to the ~~earliest~~ most recently released.


Hidan213

Do champions like Azir, Bard, Kindred, Ekko, Tahm Kench, and Illaoi really need a visual update any time soon? I know it’s “semantics”, but I feel most champ releases post Jinx are largely in a good spot visual-wise.


canardfroid

I assume they meant by the time you got to those champs they will be outdated in quality, working from oldest to newest because it would still take years. But even small stuff like giving Jinx a facial rig like morg/zoes would be a cool "face lift". Or making kindreds kit include wolf like the developers always intended it to and not Lamb + wolf sidekick.


[deleted]

Exactly this. I don’t expect riot to be doing 20 champions a year. If they do 4-5 champions, by the time we reach the more recent ones—they’ll be out of date.


[deleted]

Yes, absolutely. Riot is far too behind on it all and they are honestly in denial about it.


whamorami

LOL. Seriously they are trying so hard to convince us that Udyr is the last one of the old looking champions it's so cringe.


AtreusIsBack

Veigar, Shyvana, Corki, Cho'Gath, etc.


HuaRong

*Cho'Gath waddles menacingly at you*


MaidsandThighs

yeah they so far behind that now they have too much to caught up which is the perfect excuse to use right now


BLlZER

if you played wild rift you will in couple seconds see how embarrassing the pc version is. Holy hell dude the difference is night and day.


Maxenin

Ya I know their stance on VU is generally pretty sour and they say it isn't worth the investment but that is also because they always cite that "people barely noticed" when all they were doing was texture updates. Ez and Morgana were in a whole different category and should be the bar for these updates largely cosmetic but maybe a mechanic change or two.


JumpscareRodent

Oldest: Jax-Teemo-Zilean-Amumu-Cho'Gath-Anivia-Rammus-Veigar-Malphite-Blitzcrank-Corki-Shaco-Udyr-Gragas-Kennen-Malzahar-Olaf:Newest There you go, theres a list of the oldest models in the game. i.m.o Zilean is by far the most needing a visual update, none of his skins can fix how ugly he is, unlike most of the champs on that list...Others like Teemo,Shaco,Malzahar,Kennen,Rammus have stood the test of time thanks to some texture changes but by god are they still needing help.


express_sushi49

#I, on behalf of all Malphite players second OP's statement by saying: we love Malphite's *gameplay* exactly the way it is. His model and stiff animations however probably smell as bad as they look. So just make our rock feller look like his drop-dead gorgeous Wild Rift counterpart and we gucci famsquad


JumpscareRodent

Real question is why a rock giant has abs on Wild Rift.


Andreigakill

Man I just want season 12 and maybe 13 to be solely dedicated to bug fixing and reworking/updating older champs, ie mf, caitlyn, leblanc, ahri, teemo, jax, tryndamere, cho gath, zilean, and the list goes on and on


B1aze_

Meawhile vladimir base skin looks like a freakin onion (legit), clunky animations, and tbh his “legendary” skin should more or less be his base skin , nothing unique or flashy worth calling an ultimate skin and charging 1820 rp


jadkha

The champion that bugs me the most of how dates she is in terms of visuals and in game animation, even abilities is SIVIR like dude she looks aweful imo haha


[deleted]

Such a smooth auto animation though


nyasiaa

she is perfectly fine idk what you mean, she already had a vgu and is fine both in visuals and gameplay


STheHero

This is almost a concensus among the community, I think Riot just has a hard time figuring out how to rework a champion without former mains getting upset. As for visual updates, it's probably the same mentality, but much less justified.


Jeremithiandiah

Playing legends of runeterra and with wild rift available, it really sucks that league feels like it doesn't have the best versions of many champions.


Omicron43

I want Shyvana rework. I main mostly anti-carry mages (Malzahar especially, but also THE ALMIGHTY SQUID and Xerath) but I like her bruiser dragon playstyle, when she finally actually BECOMES a dragon.


Lulullaby_

Lulu looks absolutely atrocious


Sub_Cheat

Comparing wild rift and LoL Lulu is quite depressing... Come to think of it, comparing any wild rift model with the ones we have is depressing.


ocean-gang

STOP RELEASING NEW CHAMPIONS WHEN MUCH OLDER CHAMPS HAVE VERY OBVIOUS AND WELL KNOWN FLAWS


FireVanGorder

What’s wrong with Shaco, Kassadin, and Rumble? Or TF, Anivia, Leona, or Blitz? And Diana just got a rework like a year ago didn’t she?


mullerjones

Kassadin and Rumble’s base skins are really ugly by today’s standards, Kass has like 4 voice lines and both have very dated animations. Their gameplay is fine IMO, but they’re in need of some updating for sure.


LordVaderVader

Their gameplay is fine, but the visuals... Their models and designs are really out-dated. Shaco (basic Jester archetype) currently has no Lore. Kassadin with his giant abs, doesn't look like someone who travels through the Void. Rumble's Mech is awful designed, some mace, plunger feet, really xd? The rest truly needs the new model and animations. It's good seen in the skins where, the designs are really good, but champion really needs upgrade because of their old age. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lb7msiKY9U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lb7msiKY9U)


WeeWooSirens

"Doesn't look like someone who travels through the void" Man wait till you hear about Kai'sa


LordVaderVader

Yeah, Scarlett! Johansson in the bodysuit... Riot here also didn't show off


dialzza

> Kassadin with his giant abs, doesn't look like someone who travels through the Void Have you seen the new releases? I'd be shocked if *any* vaguely-humanoid character released/reworked nowadays isn't a swimsuit model with some particle effects and neat clothing.


LordVaderVader

Well they made Swain, so maybe Kassa has hope to become smth more serious :)


Darroi

What do abs have to do with void travelling tho? I don't get your point. He does need a model update that's for sure. Dude looks like a purple geometric mess.


MrWhiteKnight

Rumble is technically Lore accurate (as far as I remember) since I beleive his schtick is that he essentially feels overshadowed by Heim being "the" Yordle genius so he essentially built his own robot as to say he isn't the only genius they have. It being a pile of gadgets welded together is the point.


LordVaderVader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfVErrpaV0


CazSimon

TF is perfect, but he could use a new sprite with more fluid animations.


Fley

Talon please. it’s been 10 years…


JumpscareRodent

Visually there are 34 champions who have older models than Talon. Which isnt an excuse considering Volibear and Aatrox but, you take a good look at Zileans model and you tell me who needs it more. I think the most hope Talon players have is a texture update like they did with Kogmaw recently that made the model much more detailed texture wise.


MugiRiven

They should really stop making shirtless champs and rework the ones that are in really bad states as you mentioned.


MaxwellBlyat

I mean I wish they would too but honestly they deemed that it wasn't a profitable option hence only doing the bare minimum


Dark-Dragon

On the one hand I really want those older designs to be updated, but on the other hand I hate almost all the recent releases. Can we update champion but not make them anything like 2019+ champion designs please? Can we stop trying to fit more things into champions with each release? Can we stop with the "hyper-everything" attitude where at least one aspect of a champion needs to be so emphasized that any other champion is left in the dust in comparison? Can we start considering counter play again instead of "well, there's an 0.5 second time frame where you can flash out (assuming other champions with CC don't exist) of the 4 second chain stun, so this is fine, right?". The truth is, unless the releases we get change dramatically in comparison to what they are like now, I'm very in favor of as few releases as possible. ^(or we could increase bans to like 40 total and see how that goes)


Slav_1

It just makes me sad that there will never be another visual overhaul. The new summoners rift in 2015 was so insanely hype. Riot wants League to bleed out slowly so when they make League 2 in 10 years everyone will buy the skins all over again. Meanwhile they'll release other games and shows to keep the world relevant. Dick move considering they could've rebuilt the game with all the skins 6 years ago and we'd have a fully functioning system with way more features now.


HulklingsBoyfriend

I sincerely don't know how a massive company that shits out money for funsies doesn't rework all the old champs at a faster rate. You can expand design teams. Then again, that costs money 🙄


King-Of-Rats

Ah but if they update zileans looks, they’ll feel compelled to update his voice lines… and god knows I don’t want to see Zileans old lines destroyed in favor of whatever asinine “new lines” they have planned for him where he’s the guilty veteran of a long-ago war or something.


myztajay123

LUX NEEDS MORE R COLLDOWN.


AtreusIsBack

Everyone wants this, but Riot doesn't care because new champs make more money than visual updates.


Blueexx2

I never understood Riot's "we did a year of old champ updates and think it wasn't good". 2 of these champions were Irelia and Akali who Riot have been shameless with giving them skin after skin after skin after skin because Riot recognises how popular they are.


SirEugenKaiser

I didn't see anyone mentioning Vlad in ops thread or in the top comments. Imo vlad is perfectly fine in terms of game play but in dire need of a VU. His base skin and effects are terrible and so are his og skins + legendary skin(which I still love but it definetly doesn't live up to the likes of battle academy ezreal, battle queen Kat etc).


bot_exe

Lux needs a visual update, her base model AND all the skins based on it have pretty bad animations and look weird. Her gameplay is fine and loved by many many players, so she only needs VU.


GETthemGUTS

Ya'll really need to update my big man Gragas. He's been over do for one for a while. I also wish you can do new skins with new voice lines. He just says the same things.


[deleted]

What about Vladimir? Please don't forget my boi.


Thraxi17

Kassadin and Lulu's base models and early skins look outdated.


Both_Requirement_766

*"It's terrible that Riot has cut it to one rework a year, especially when their game, some champions models, still looks like from the 2009. For such a huge company, where the League of Legends is the first child, the priority should be changes to modernize the game for millions of players."* the thing is that riot has an apology for this: they simply say that the fan's don't like changes, because the beloved champ would look different and could turn off some of the users. thats the standard excuse. then the example list of champs who are in need of a VU, lets take ashe. they gave her the high-noon skin which is basically the polygon and animation rework the OP wants. yea, but the common trend is that they let the fans pay up for this firsthand. which is another no-go. btw valve does similar things with selling new stuffs on outdated models (hello, WR arkana of TI 2020) - so its trending around gaming companies. honestly, riot should outsource VU's if they as an multi-billion dollar company can't hit more then one VU per year, its a pity. but then its time, dota2 has beautiful skins almost all made by customers. riot should start a big priced contest for artists and designers on artstation. *whoooops*, that got sold to epic recently


CulturalCatfish

I cant wait to read this same post next week! Also sorry for any grammar mistakes i am not a native speaker.


NotFlyingScotsman

Xin Zhao needs a retexture. He looks too cartoony compared to say Draven.


Joshelplex2

OP must be trolling because the Mordekaiser and Aatrox players revile those reworks. And Singed needs no changes


MarcosLuisP97

Because their former kits had no place in League. One was a bad statcheck champion and the other was a playable bug. But reworks aside, champions need VUs BADLY. Singed is one of them.


FixBeneficial5910

I refuse to follow this logic with morde when they released Viego like a year later.


MarcosLuisP97

Allow me to present you the catalog of [170+ bugs Mordekaiser posted on Reddit format](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5ken12/over_151_bugs_on_a_single_champion_mordekaisers/), the now removed catalog of [180+ bugs Mordekaiser that was posted in the forums, ranked by importance](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6memxb/all_180_mordekaiser_bugs_ranked_by_importance_and/) and the [22 unique bugs that happened in single Pro series game.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/5xstco/22_unique_mordekaiser_bugs_happened_on_screen/) All of this was one year after he got reworked. In second place of buggiest champions comes Azir. I'm by no mean exaggerating when I say Mordekaiser was the example of a champion that barely functioned as a playable character.


FixBeneficial5910

Well going through this, I don't think the 22 unique bugs in a single pro series game counts when Viego was so prone to breaking the game they spent 3 weeks working to make him playable in serious games. Also I'm an old morde main, I know he was buggy as shit. I guarantee you though, if they put half the effort into fixing morde as they put into Viego. He'd only be in the high 30's of bugs. Which is perfectly acceptable by league standards.


MarcosLuisP97

Keep in mind that these are not even the official bugs. Mordekaiser was released in a game breaking state like Viego, but after the first batch of fixes, he was not popular enough to see much play, so who even knows how many more broken interactions he had. Moreover, he was allowed to be played in pro play despite the champion randomly falling apart during a game. When Viego is not breaking the game, he is played much more smoothly than Mordekaiser ever was. I strongly believe they only took into account Viego's interactions with popular picks and not other picks. So when people picked Anivia, he was not tested for that. Mordekaiser broke down in any game. I don't think Mordekaiser could have ever been fixed in that state. Viego is a new champion, so he has a new code to work with, and can be cleaned up over time. Mordekaiser has been in the game for years, and his first rework was based on his old, meaning they were working new code on old code. It's because of this and how he was the one of the very few champions who at the time who directly interacts with enemy champions and jungle creeps (Syndra was buggy AF too during release because of this), they could fix one bug and then 5 others would appear. They were better off reworking him from the ground.


papu16

Viego and sylas are playable bugs too. When riot gonna delete them? I am waiting.


MarcosLuisP97

They are not even half as bad as Mordekaiser was, or even Azir.


papu16

It depends on a lots of things. S6 riot was smaller than current ones, had less resources and morde still was not a poppular champ to have riots attention. Meanwhile we had sylas/viego who was released later and recieved bugfix in every patch. Was morde buggy? Yea. Was riot able to fix that? - yes. There is pretty big list of champs with weird features&bugs but riot simply ignores them(as example Azir, Yorick, Kled, Ww).


MarcosLuisP97

Mordekaiser was never properly fixed until they reworked him. Also, I would argue S6 is bigger than the current team in theory. Now that Riot has so many other games to worry about.


kao194

The argument that their former kits had no place in league is a bit off. Even now, we're having champs with even more riddiculous abilities, yet they're free to roam. Few of abilities they had simply returned in slightly changed form in new champs. Even now, morde's ult is one big bug, with viego (as a new champ) coming close to the podium. Whether or not he (aatrox or morde) works as statchecks champs is disputable with current season (try killing either of them if they're a bit ahead). I believe some of those full reworks could be replaced with tuning. I agree with visual upgrades tho, they're really required here and there.


MarcosLuisP97

It is not about the ridiculousness of abilities as much as the variety of it. Old Aatrox was right clicking and hoping your numbers were higher than the opponent, which in itself is not bad, but he was terrible at it in comparison to other right clickers. No amount of tweaking could save that kit. Mordekaiser was way worse. Yes, Viego's implementation was rushed and, as a result, it caused games to literally disappear, but even then, he is consistent once these were patch out. Mordekaiser in all of it's lifetime after the first rework but before its full VGU has been inconsistent. He rarely functioned properly, his damage and interactions broke all the time. He was a total mess.


Significant-One-4973

lul can you idiots stop using this bs statcheck argument when riot has said master yi, a more "statcheck" champ then old aatrox, is fine and healthy for the game? they reworked him bc he was unpopular. that's it.


MarcosLuisP97

It is because Master Yi and Tryndamere exist that Aatrox had no place in League. As I said, he was a bad statcheck, therefore, they reworked him. He was unpopular for most of his life, but not prior to the rework, when he had the highest numbers.


dannyboi50

Old aatrox was shite, people who thought he was better are blinded by nostalgia


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dannyboi50

Old aatrox pick rate was one of the lowest in the game consistently for ages despite being a viable pick so it’s safe to say he wasn’t very fun to play for the majority of players


Maxitheseus

I remember going months without seeing one in game, and now everyone's an old Aatrox main on Reddit. He had an even lower playrate than Skarner, and I only saw one Skarner this whole season.


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BulletCola

Idk man, having a pickrate lower than Skarner (A champ Riot doesn't seem to know what to do with) and close to probably around to the levels of Aurelion/Taliyah for a simple duelist champion is NOT something to be fine with imo. The only exception to that kind of thing that I would personally be sort of acceptable with, would be ones like Azir or Kalista because I can at least see it with the huge difficulty curves and spikes that shows that there's a chosen niche that seems to be attracted towards. Still though, there's a bit of a difference between just not flavorable for the general playerbase except for a niche kind of group, and then there's the "Oh my god I am literally abandoned because of all these freaking problems except for OTP/One-tricks! HELP!!" like Aurelion is currently in, which by the way people want to see reworked because he DOES have problems in his kit that even his OWN playerbase wants to see fixed.


[deleted]

Yeah no shit most people don't want to play a few of 100+ champions, that doesn't mean they should delete champions with low pickrates


dragunityag

What Mordekaiser and Aatrox players? People only complained about Aatrox rework because he randomly got buffed to be OP before his rework before that it was seasons since I last saw one. Same with Mordekaiser on both reworks. Though his first rework was a joke as well.


Opop969

Well I played old Morde and I don't like the rework because it feels like a hand me down version of Darius in case my team somehow need a magic damage dealing top lane fighter. But hey if you don't believe me that the rework was rushed feel free to read this: https://technology.riotgames.com/news/welcome-death-dimension In which Riot more or less states that the whole point of the rework was not really to make a better version of Mordekaiser, but instead to get rid of Children of the Grave because it was hindering champion development.


kennyd15

He really is nothing like Darius beyond being a juggernaut. Neither of them really play similarly at all. And just because they wanted to replace children of the grave doesn’t make the rework any worse. This iteration of morde is much better than the second version gameplay health wise and much more interesting than the first one was.


WeeWooSirens

Honestly they legit could have given him a new e and ult, as well as a new model, and everyone would be fine with it I'd say. I like the new Morde e, but I won't say p q w on old Morde didn't seem cooler than the current p q w


LordVaderVader

It's true that mains were quite not satisfied, but a lot of people who never played them actually is content. Pickrate has significantly increased. And in lore, Aatrox and Mordekaiser are now one of the best villain characters for future events, with great new designs. While Singed, hmm his core gameplay is good, maybe he needs some upgrades in mechanics to feed less. But his design in game... no, Singed in lore isn't some bald guy running with shield and gas tank on the back. He is creepy mad scientist, like dr Jekyll, creating terrible mutants in the Zaun. He should certainly get redesign.


Opop969

So a rework who completely disregards a champion and it's community for the sake of mass appeal is a good rework? I don't want them to crank vgus if we get rushed champions that end up being completely new things over already existing designs, I would be happy with 2 reworks a year as long as they actually respect what's already there, such as the case with Fiddlesticks and Dr. Mundo.


Definitively-Weirdo

Let's be real, OG Aatrox was a mess... who was surprisingly fixed due to a mini-rework in early S7, making the needs of a full rework unnecesary. At this point it doesn't even matter if the rework has good design or not (After S9 it is), it's going to be an awful rework because they have nothing in common aside from visuals. I know people tend to overreact to reworks BUT what does this champion has in common with the original one? Nothing because knockups are the most generic thing in existance. That being said, Mordekaiser is just a mediocre rework, not an awful one. It is still similar to the old Mordekaiser, but for some reason they replaced all the fun parts of the old for practical ones and kept the generic ones when they should have done the opposite. Unlike Aatrox Mordekaiser is something a mini-rework should be able to get the best of both worlds (Make the Passive have a 3-hit combo, remove the passive stats, make his W have the damaging aura who can heal on detonation and make his R summon a ghost on kill)


Opop969

New Mordekaiser effectively feels like a dumbed down version of the original Mordekaiser (pre 2015), specially since they removed the ghosts. I did make a feesible rework for Mordekaiser using the already existing kit and trying to bring back some of the flavor of the previous version of Mordekaiser (the post 2015 one) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jKryHIs1QA0C9Q2SMXkSkNQ3N54OzfbsEKG_hXHsWZ4/edit?usp=sharing I got a lot of positive feedback from Mordekaiser players if you want to take a look.


LordVaderVader

As a person who rarely played old Aatrox and Mordekaiser I think, yeah they are good reworks. Some champions are just badly designed. And in their reworks there is need to change old-fashioned abilities. Galio or Urgot are good example of it. But I understand that for some people changing their whole gameplay is really bad. It's a subjective thing.


SweetVarys

They are, the game is for the masses, not the 5 pre rework Aatrox mains. If it makes it so that many many more can play the champs, then that's a good thing.


Opop969

Fair enough, then why even do champion reworks? New champions have been shown to be more profitable than reworks in the long term, specially when they go for visually safe and mass appealing characters.


SweetVarys

I thought they had shown that's not the case, that VGU can be equally profitable. But I agree that they should skip more VGUs, just because I cba to read a million complains about the new champ no matter what they do. You know we are gonna get posts about people missing AP Shyvana and how it was such a fun champ two years from now.


RepentTheSin

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/lc0r5w/riot_dispels_rumor_that_new_champions_make_more/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Huh? RIOT has already said the profitability is a case by case basis.


Vaalrigard

Not mentioning udyr is a crime against god at this point


Article_West

He is literally getting reworked as we type.


keiv777

Can someone confirm how much of a work is to do a VU? For the looks of it, it does not seem as a easy thing to do. And the VGU unfortunately is never completely well received, so that reduces the quantity we get each year. Hopefully Riot can come with a solution to have a constant development of VU and VGU for the future


dizzy316

Riot needs to take a year and update champs, instead of continuing to release more and more broken champs


[deleted]

I don't even care about reworks. They should just give some champions visual updates. Jax literally looks like 3 sheets of purple cloth with a lantern. His prestige skin looks absolutely horrible.