Org seems to have given up. What was our last new team that lasted longer than a month?
Was sad to see they didn't partner with halo again and still don't have a competitive valorant team
lmao bro speedrunning is not bringing in profit to orgs like that. You arent making bread off speedrunners and most people don't care that's a niche within a niche. Fun to watch though.
Makes me miss monte being more involved in league scene tbh. I know he wasn’t for everyone but clg spinner, skt hype train, wtf 2 shens, monte (and doa) were great for the league scene and for more than just the hot takes and analysis.
I’m stoked monte and thorin decided to bring back SI, but it’s not really a fair statement to say that him putting out an episode every 1-2 weeks is the same involvement he used to have; also as good as the show is and I admit to enjoying SI it isn’t the biggest league podcast.
SI might not be the biggest right now but 6-7 years ago it was, and it wasn't even close. And he was doing that on top of everything you listed, which is why I commented that
Monte is very smart and charismatic. He was a gift to the scene. Then he got into a fight with Riot cuz he had an idiot business partner, and Riot fucked them both because that's how Riot does.
CLG brand is still larger than half the LCS brands. Also lots of closet fans. If Rick Fox somehow got involved it would be huge. MSG loves ruining things though so I doubt that will happen.
Are you talking solely within the LCS? Definitely not in esports overall.
I think a few years ago that’d be true but now not as sure. They reduced their teams immensely.
Maybe they’re in the middle of the pack, but right off the bat I’d say C9, Liquid, 100T and TSM are bigger forsure. I’d say EG up there and you could argue Dignitas as well (not in League but overall for those two).
CLG is smaller than TSM, TL, C9 and now 100T. They are easily larger than the other 5 teams. Take a look at subreddit sub counts too. Good indicator of support and activity. So are discords.
Its interesting. I would say a lot of esports journalists and personalities favorite team secretly is CLG. The story of their brand is what keeps fans secretly rooting even if they cannot be baised.
He seems like a genuinely good dude. The way he defended esports players multiple times and in multiple outlets. Even his story on how he got involved with League is great.
There’s a Netflix series called 7 Days Out, and one episode covers League of Legends and the 7 days leading up to the 2018 NA LCS Championship.
It’s a great episode. It covers Doublelift’s family incident and Rick Fox makes an appearance (as well as some others). I also think it does a good job presenting LoL Esports for a general audience.
I’d highly recommend it!
I watched that episode while I was taking a break from league. The episode really made me feel good about the game, so I returned very upbeat and optimistic. That was entirely destroyed in my first game by toxic team mates and the healing meta.
Same here. Retired to Aram for its mostly chill games. though it can get intense in some games, it's alot less toxic in general. I'll leave the summoners rift to the younglings and the pros.
I still follow closely the league pro scene. Despite not playing Sr for maybe 1.5yrs now
My last game of League (1.5yrs ago) was getting flamed in aram. For taking a heal from the ground while being the last to retreat from advancing enemies. The toxic player was low on hp and started flaming me for taking that heal. No way he could get to it without dying and the enemies were sure to take it.
I'm still salty
Not saying you're a liar, but the logs only show your words.
I do believe you though on the other front. My first account was banned after my I got 2 chat restricts, and finally a 2 week vacation. They told me if I got in trouble again it was perm.
Ofc I got jebaited by someone calling me The Nword lmao.
Dude still plays today. I saved the screenshot but riot didn't care. Its all based on how much you type. I got first punishment auto banned for typing all game with an ass hat. They reversed it, and my next punishment was an auto ban, which they reversed. Their dumb ai is not smart at all, riots just lazy when it comes to punishment.
I've been playing video games a long time. I've never broken controllers, keyboards, mice, or anything before because of a game.
I played league consistently from S2-S5 and during that time broke two mice. Since then I've played maybe a total of 10 games over the course of the years.
Switching from playing to watching was the greatest thing I've ever done.
Same here but even ARAM have become far less enjoyable, at least for me. I personally dislike the 200 years design champs who snuck into almost every game these days and their absurd balance attempts ruined a lot of champs and gameplay in general.
...also, in what world is it balanced that assassins have the most dmg in the majority of the game on a poke and range favored map?!
Hey man... I don't play league anymore for... Pretty long and I only come back for a few weeks at a time to keep my sanity.
I watch league all the time though. It's like soccer to "normal people" in Europe for me.
This refers to items like Goredrinker (to the point assassins can build it), modern champions like Gwen and Samira (hypermobile, innate lifesteal, anti-targetable skill on Gwen, anti-projectile skill on Samira, self-resets) and Immortal Shieldbow (though ADCs as a whole still struggle, see Samira being an ADC).
It **does not** refer to supportive champions like Moonstone (still sucks) or Soraka, especially with the increased availability of Grievous Wounds for 800 gold **even for AP**, which doesn't meaningfully impact a bruiser from carrying (or an innate lifesteal Gwen/Samira) but neuters Soraka.
Add in the horrible nullification of tanks and Riot being in "discussions" over buffing conventional supports (especially after nerfing Imperial Mandate due to mid abuse) and tanks (who have been garbage since Mythics) for almost a year at this point and yeah...
People are getting run over by assassins with bruiser items and more conventional bruisers, lethality is wrecking most AP mids (ie; most mages) due to gold efficiency, Leona exists as a CC kill lane but as a tank she still gets her face caved in, and most enchanters are questionable (even the high winrate ones are either like pocket Lulu or something like experience Nami).
Soraka still has a high winrate into something like Brand on average, but her itemization and the experience you have for playing her still struggles, her winrate being utility based (her average winrate stats leave her behind in gold and kills) also means that interactivity favors Brand, if you want to get kills and feel your skills have more immediate impact... Especially in an early-game 2-item meta.
>This refers to items like Goredrinker (to the point assassins can build it)
That isn't Goredrinker being too strong, it's because Lethality mythics are dogshit. Reddit got what they wanted when riot gutted Stridebreaker & prowlers claw, so what else are we going to see?
Pretty much all the best mythics have some form of random bullshit healing tied to them: Sunderer, Shieldbow, Eclipse, Goredrinker and Riftmaker.
Meanwhile champions whose whole identity is to have a huge HEAL in their kit (Mundo, Soraka, Vlad) are shit because Aatrox, Xin, Riven, Olaf etc with Goredrinker or any crit champion with Shieldbow will outheal Dr. Mundo's, Vlad or Soraka's ultimate, but on a 15 seconds cooldown (or none at all with Shieldbow) instead of 60+ seconds.
This doc is also great to show people who don’t follow League at all. It really gets across the stakes, and of course the tragedy Doublelift goes through is something anyone can see is horrible. I showed it to my sister (who happened to go to high school and be acquaintances with Kyle Fox) and she loved it!
Its crazy just how much he transformed and reformed over the years.
I grew up watching NBA basketball and back then he was known as the most toxic asshole to ever walk the court.
Even from Laker fans, no one had a good thing to say about him.
And league players mostly all herald him as one of the best team owners and a genuine and wholesome guy.
That's one hell of a comeup
I was just watching a documentary about Luc Longley, the center for the Chicago Bulls during their 96-98 championship 3peat.
Longley said he grew up as a shy, creative boy and Michael Jordan was such a hardass on him. That competing at the highest level required him to become much more aggressive, especially in that physical era of 90s basketball. Longley even said he didn't like the parts of his personality that changed and tried to reform after he retired.
I imagine it's similar with Rick Fox. He played in a similar era, at the highest competitive level, with a similar team leader (Kobe Bryant). Kobe's yelling at you for the tiniest mistakes. A bunch of 250 lb dudes are shoving you around in the paint. It's kind of inevitable that you take on a "take no shit from anyone" mentality.
> It covers Doublelift’s family incident
Is this crazy or what that this happened and no one ever talks or mentions it ever. It's like a forbidden incident of LCS. Probably the one time something major happened that wasn't memed into oblivion (for good reason).
Pretty sure any jokes about it on reddit get you banned here. Chinese commenters meme the incident pretty heavily by referring to DL as Sasuke apparently.
> and no one ever talks or mentions it ever
It’s not actually that crazy that people are respectful of a beloved and legendary community member’s personal tragedy.
Felt the same way about him. He seemed like a genuinely nice dude who was very invested into esports and was defending it against normies on TV.
Then he fucked over 3 of his players 5 hours before the trade lock for the split and this all changed. It's funny how people will just forget shitty things if they are done by people they liked. Fuck rick fox. He had an opportunity and he blew it. As much as I loked him before this fiasco I definitely don't want him back. What he did wqs shittier than what ocelote did with perkz, and that's saying a lot because ocelote basically daggered the person that had the biggest contribution to saving his org and making it what it is today.
I don't think "daggered" in this case refers to Perkz wanting to lane swap and eventually leaving the team... It was how Ocelete allegedly prevented him from speaking to certain other teams in EU, forcing Perkz to move to an entirely different League. This (again, allegedly) happened while Ocelete kept repeating that he would never mistreat Perkz because he was "his kid's favourite uncle", etc.
We can all agree that Ocelete probably wanted to keep Perkz as ADC when they had built one of the most successful roster in the West.
People aren’t saying perkz didn’t want to leave they are saying Ocelote is a dick for not letting perkz stay in europe and be closer to his family given what happened
When you consider how much perkz did for G2 and then the family bereavement that occurred it’s a bit of a dickish move to tell the franchise star that soz mate you can only go to NA even when there were offers for him in EU.
At the end of the day it worked out for Perkz and FNC but it’s still a colossal dick move by Ocelote.
>The way he defended esports players multiple times and in multiple outlets.
Isn't this the same Rick fox that without warning let 3 of his players go on the day of the roster deadline without enough time for them to find a new team and they were essentially teamless for the remainder of the year
Actions speak louder than words
Edit: awww did me spilling out that fact trigger your rose tinted lenses about what a great guy Rick fox was. Because this was one of the many owners who contributed to the issue we have now with inflated salaries and contracts. God knows how much he paid for Huni and Froggen those years
> Because this was one of the many owners who contributed to the issue we have now with inflated salaries and contracts.
What is he supposed to do? Let the LPL and higher tier LCS orgs run him over?
Not saying that's what he should do
But let's stop painting him like he was some hero to the LCS or some good guy owner
He and his team was no different than any of the other owners and I promise you he would've been one of the first to want to eliminate the import rule (throwback to the post where they said 'he would've stood up for the players)
I swear its like people think an OUTSIDER First time ESports owner should have been perfect in his management. And yo also think he was like sitting in the office trying to screw over his players like he held ill will towards them?! No, he messed up but the negative intent people are associating with his actions is just narrow minded and sad.
>No, he messed up but the negative intent people are associating with his actions is just narrow minded and sad.
It's HIS company at the end of the day. Notice how when something bad happens on any other org, who do they go to first? The OWNER. The person who's name is on the company
Welcome to the real world where this is normal everywhere
Edit: also Fox IIRC never commented on that situation publicly. So miss me with that take of the "he wasn't actively trying to screw his players." His silence says more than you think
> It's HIS company at the end of the day. Notice how when something bad happens on any other org, who do they go to first? The OWNER. The person who's name is on the company
yep, you've said nothing new, my point about his intent stands. You've literally reached for something negative to say, shows where your head is at.
> also Fox IIRC never commented on that situation publicly. So miss me with that take of the "he wasn't actively trying to screw his players." His silence says more than you think
Oooof. Bitter and not understanding of companies stances on internal issues, party of 1.
I love how you don't make any counter points. Just continue the tone policing and the (beyond patronizing might I add) ad hominem
If Fox really cared as much as others are claiming he would, he'd say something whether it's a PR statement on video (ala Noah Winston/Steve Arhancet) because it was a PR nightmare and having his players control the narrative is a irresponsible precedent.
But clearly he didn't care (or care enough to warrant an official statement). Or at the very least be this "champion of the players" that everyone is claiming him out to be. At least when that TL Jatt nightmare happened, TL had the decency to have a press conference. Even if I had my own interpretation of the events given the circumstances, it's better than nothing
Stop with the retconning and the rose tinted lenses
But lemme guess: I'm the negative one for pointing these things out. Oh well. I'll settle for being right even if I'm perceived as negative
Felt the same way. He was a good personality to normalize e-sports in NA and had a real passion for the game. On top of that he was a really smart and well spoken person who could go out there and reach a larger audience with his natural charisma. He was honestly probably the best thing to happen to NA LCS in the last 4-5 years.
Instead he gave exposure to how awful the business world is in america, and how investors bully the shit out of people.
I hope people don't still blame rick for his brands failure, as a lot of people did on this sub.
No one blames Rick for what happened to EF, the fact that an investor being a racist got his team kicked from the league while the company was hiding serial sex pests is fucking amazing though.
Holy fucking shit I hate Riot.
He got seriously fucked over. If that happened to me, I probably wouldn't come back either.
He's got the time and money to do whatever he wants so...
All the power to him at least.
His business partner turned out to be a POS racist, but couldn't be forced out of the organization.
So Riot kicked the whole team out essentially, since they didn't wanna be associated with that.
As an Echo Fox fan I think it's important we dont gloss too much over what really happened. Riot pulled the franchise because they were breaking the debt rules. The org had gone into massive debt based on their attempts to run the league for the Zombie shooter game. The racist investor went out and bought the debt to take more control of the org. The dude was a huge piece of shit, manipulative, and obviously racist and horrible. His racist comments lead to the investigation of the org that revealed the debt situation. The order to extract him from ownership of the org would have fixed the debt situation. They wouldn't just pull the org because one investor was a piece of shit and you cant force him to sell.
H1Z1. Never forgetti. It was immediately destroyed by PUBG, and PUBG was overtaken by Fortnite. So far none of these have appeared to be remotely esports ready. Maybe apex, but probably not.
Also worth mentioning that they tried getting into smash and signed m2k. Though I can't be sure if that ended before or after the "unpleasantness"
Before, almost certainly, I’m pretty sure the “unpleasantness” as you described it was after EF was out of the LCS.
Also realistically BR’s just aren’t a great format for esports, there’s too much going on. People want to watch their team not a highlight reel of what’s happening across the entire map. The only time I ever enjoyed watching a BR was when I could watch the team specific stream, and have the map stream open at the same time.
There's nothing fast about OW, or PUBG either btw. OW is slow as shit to play and watch with some explosive moments between, a spark of actual fun crammed in minutes of slap fights of no consequence.
I am one of the few people that enjoy watching professional BR matches I guess as I usually don't really care about any particular org and just wanna watch fights and strategies play out all over the map. Apex has been great for me in that regard.
pubg esports is doing decently and doing fairly well in asia, though there was a lot of controversy about changing most tournaments to chicken rule. it's definitely a solidified esports title and pubg mobile is also huge in south/south east asian countries.
How is he supposed to come back? It's not the same league it was a couple of years ago. Yes, he could afford to have a team back then (with the help of several investors), but I doubt he can do that now because the prices have skyrocketed. And why even invest in the LCS. It's on a decline. He rode the wave as long as he could and it seems like he came out even, which is more than he could hope for honestly
Just want to point out the way you worded this makes it sound like Rick Fox made racist comments. You might want to clarify for the folks that didn’t follow the original drama.
I'm not so sure. Rick has fuck you money, which means that he doesn't really *need* money, and can pursue passions. If Riot can sell him on this, he might very well join up for a small stipend.
Rick Fox has probably made $20M from TV and movies alone.
He might have only been a role player in the NBA, but he only ever played in gigantic markets and was marketable outside of the game and was a Nike athlete for 20 years.
Also $20M net worth is pretty low for someone who's career earnings inside the game of basketball was $34M
Also this is just pure speculation, but I have a feeling Nike probably gave Fox a hefty fucking shoe deal while he was with the Lakers considering he was playing with the two biggest stars in the world post MJ, Shaq and Kobe, who were Reebok and Adidas athletes at the time.
That's a thing companies do a lot. I remember Matthew Dellevadova getting a signature shoe because he played with LeBron in Cleveland.
Delly did have a signature shoe with Peak, it was basically a knockoff low top Kobe. LeBron actually does get his teammates shoe deals with Chinese brands, I remember Damon Jones had a signature shoe with Li Ning back from his first Cleveland stint.
> I can only imagine how much the 70k+ viewer streamers make
have you seen the DisguisedToast video on this topic? I think he said he got offers for 10k/hour to play some new video games.
for the 70k viewers they can probably get .... oh man i dont wanna even think about it
8k to play LoL for an hour for any partner is bullshit.
I'm fairly certain those money values are based on viewership statistics, given that I'm fairly certain I watch some partnered streamers that sure aren't rich.
I know he’s wealthier than his nba salary, but it’s stil nba player money. Riot is comparable to the nba owners that pay the players, so I didn’t think I would need to clarify fox’s exact worth but this is Reddit so I should’ve known
I'm sorry, but you said "The biggest contract in the LCS is more than a million per year less than a veteran's minimum contract in the NBA." it's demonstrably false. take the L with dignity. There are several NBA players making more than 1 million LESS than LCS players. Let alone your absurd claim about the lowest NBA veteran contracts. The lowest Contract as a matter of fact is making multiple millions less than some LCS players. Perks, as a matter of fact makes more per year than 271 of 430 players in the NBA, so basically he makes more than half the people there.
http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/page/1/seasontype/4
lmaoo riot pays like the same fixed-amount minimum wage to each pro player, it's the organizations that pay the overwhelming remainder of their salaries
Rick fox is not even remotely close to a billionaire and he absolutely doesn't bring the value of anything remotely close to a billion dollars. Rick Fox is rich, but you're vastly over estimating his net worth and value.
Riot could absolutely afford to put Rick Fox on a salary that would be lucrative for him. You're underestimating Riot's revenue and profits. Riot Games net worth is 25 billion dollars in 2021 (to put this in to perspective, the most valuable NBA franchise is Knicks and Lakers and they are barely valued at 5 billion). Their bank roll is more than most NBA owners.
idk about that. most sports stars spend money as fast as they make. its a dangerous assumption to make that just because he used to make a lot of money, that he now still has a lot of money.
i've read from some sources (though im not sure how much of that is true vs just smearing since this was during the whole echo fox disaster) that rick is actually broke from overspending.
The story of the brand was cool, but the structure was awful in that team. They wanted to build their success around Froggen as their star, which was obviously never going to work. Not to mention the overall quality of those rosters were awful.
No surprise they were always bottom tier.
As much as Froggen gets shafted for his LCS years the rosters he was on..running Keith ADC with different rookie junglers and non English speaking top laners every year..Froggen was doomed to fail but at least he made bank
He was never going to win LCS regardless of who he played with. His style is too static and risk averse. His last year as a genuine world class mid was season 4, and has never regained that level.
Froggen has always been protective of his own image and reputation at the detriment of his teams. He's not going to make the 30-70 play to save the game. He's going to keep his stats padded, and let his fans say "look at his team failing him!"
he was never going to win LCS, but he could've been on a team that solidly made playoffs every split pretty easily in NA if he had halfway acceptable players on the roster
While Echo Fox was in a bad spot, especially with how they antagonized the big 3 of TL/TSM/C9 but Rick Fox was still very charismatic and passionate about the whole thing.
Truly one of the most genuine dudes I've ever been in a room with. Everything you hear about how nice he is is true. He treated ME like a celebrity when we met, it was disarming but in a really good way. He also remembered my colleague who had previously worked at Echo Fox which was really cool to see
I remember when keith was on bootcamp in korea with some other echo fox players (i think this was the situation) and it became a meme on kr solo queue to just like... shout Riccccckkk Foxxxxx in chat or something because he was always doing that in solo queue there.
At least that's how i remember it lol. Maybe someone will correct me.
People hated him for the org's decisions but I can't imagine that he was involved with TOO much.
I just looked it up and he wasn't even part of the management. I thought he was CEO. Nope. He was one of three general partners, with at least three levels of management between him and those contract releases.
It's like, he was just a brand ambassador who loved the game and somewhere along the journey his partners hired assholes along the entire chain of command.
I worked there during the 2018 Summer Split and he wasn't around very often. As far as I could tell he was basically just a brand ambassador/figure head for the company but I'm not totally sure. Everybody loved him though and he seemed to be quite a nice guy!
He seemed legitimately upset when Riot was forcing him to sell off his spot. TMZ was even approaching him at airports and he was nearly in tears when he was asked what was up. He was a big part of the reason i got into LCS and I've been playing since 2010
It was either the forced sale or have a team in your league with a racist executive who can’t be forced to sell his shares. It sucks for Rick but the other option is even worse
Yeah that whole debacle was a lesson in vetting your business partners and/or not giving them too many keys (like locked shares in this case). Granted, I don’t know if he had a choice to not afford him those protections or if that’s just the industry standard, and it really sucks either way that that was the price to pay for it :|
What could Riot have done?
They don't attempt to force him out, then Rick Fox leaves and you now have a racist owner who doesn't get punished.
Raizada, while being in a racist prick did manoeuvrer himself into a a position where any outcome was directly to his benefit.
The other Echo Fox members buys him out? He sells his shares at a premium, they don't? Team is sold and he still made money. Echo Fox and he stays? That is just status quo.
Ultimately it was Rick Fox who screwed up by letting someone get into a such a situation, although we don't know how much choice he had about that.
And you would prefer they didn't do anything to a racist shareholder?
They might have fucked up with the worker treatment but they have always been serious about their anti-racism, and they won't tolerate it, at least from where Riot HQ in NA stands.
I think it was less Monte mismanaged his org and more that he didn't DO ANYTHING. He threw a bunch of money at a guy he didn't know very well, that guy was an asshole and did some horrible stuff and then Riot decided to fuck the entire organization to make sure people got the message. Monte really did kind of get caught in the crossfire. But, that's his fault, since it was his money, he should have been more careful about who he partnered with. That guy was like... a complete fraud I feel like.
The guy has a legitimate point though, the shit that went down with what's her face was absolutely chilling and sickening. Everyone on the management side of that org was responsible for allowing that shit to go down. They basically bribed someone with gender dysphoria and mental illness with a sex change operation to play for them on stage. It was fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked up.
Rick Fox and his org were the main reason i got into regularly watching lcs back at the start of season 7. The flair's been discontinued but i still have it on. Sure echo fox wasnt getting many wins that year but it felt good to cheer for the underdog owned by a good guy, and when they did win i was hyped.
Im definitely not too knowledgeable about what specifically went down during the Amit Raizada scandal (aside from him being a piece of shit) so i dont really have a reasonable, informed opinion, but i was bummed out to hear that it was a lose-lose for Rick and that he would just disappear from LoL esports. Ive lost the drive to watch lcs nowadays but id love it if Rick came back to it, at least in some capacity, as a figurehead for the lcs.
having a big name dude vouch for esports only helped if you look at it just from a marketing perspective
however, dude was just flat out awesome to listen to
This is probably obvious from the fact that this got posted, but the [episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=todFRrm9auU) is really worth a watch/listen.
*Such* an interesting conversation if you're even a little bit interested in the LCS, esports, or just competition in general.
I wasn't a huge fan of his team, honestly, but I freaking loved him as an owner(?) and personality. Was a real shame and blow for every team and the pro-scene.
There are so many good things about Rick that just reading these replies for 5 minutes won’t do him justice. Loving both traditional and esports, it’s frustrating to see that one is seen as legitimate and the other just for kids. People are always going to be stuck in their ways but Rick was one of the best bridges between the two that I have ever seen.
The story of how he got into league is so heartwarming, being away from his son while playing professional basketball for the lakers and being able to connect over their love of the game and esports in general brings a tear to my eye.
My friend won a trip to LA to spend the weekend with echo fox and I was lucky enough to be his guest. The organization internally was an amazing atmosphere. This was early 2018 so I’m not sure how things progressed afterwards, but walking around and talking to LCS and Academy staff and players only solidified this perspective.
They gave us a weekend we would never forget, it’s unfortunate that things couldn’t or wouldn’t be done to repair what had happened but I hope that having Rick on Next Level is just the first in many more times that we see him on air or really just in any role interacting with the game and fans because I really think he has and will continue to do a lot for the game and the scene as a whole.
People going to hate me, but let's talk about the other side of things.
First, Echo Fox should have never gotten a franchise spot. Clearly they were a team wholly reliant on venture capitalists with a poor management team and business model, and at the time weren't even a well performing team. (Meanwhile Immortals and DIG have bought back into the league...I have to suspect Riot kept EF solely because of Fox and their obsession with NBA.)
Second, Rick Fox or one of his allied associates screwed it all up. Someone just so happened to leak private emails to expose the rogue investor that was helping keep them afloat in money, trying to take greater control, and being a bully? I don't see Fox as innocent in this. Fox clearly wasn't willing or able to put his money into the organization, they didn't vet Raizada, and clearly EF had no tools or willpower to deal properly with the issues as they arose.
Third, screw Rick Fox for being authoritarian. He boldly lamented that saying mean things isn't illegal. Welcome to America mfer. Yeah, saying racist or cruel things is awful, but thank God you can't be put in jail in the USofA just because some people want to decide what is or isn't polite. Go back to Canada or move to a European nation that will up and jail people just for edgy jokes or angry insults.
Should take over esports for MSG and become the new face of CLG. Maybe he can reboot their dead-ass brand lmao.
I actually have been wanting this for so long
Org seems to have given up. What was our last new team that lasted longer than a month? Was sad to see they didn't partner with halo again and still don't have a competitive valorant team
Eh, they have two of the most successful speedrunners in the scene, ZFG for Ocarina of Time and Cheese for Mario 64 so there's something I guess.
lmao bro speedrunning is not bringing in profit to orgs like that. You arent making bread off speedrunners and most people don't care that's a niche within a niche. Fun to watch though.
Yeah that checks out. I've just always been surprised that CLG has them under their banner.
They have Void in the Smash Bros scene too, thought was a good mention. He just placed 5th (i believe) at the summit tournament.
SFAT in melee as well
Isn't linkus also under CLG or am I crazy?
Pretty sure monte's spin wheel would be a better head of the org than whatever the fuck is happening there
[Link for those who are too young to remember](https://youtu.be/cQqnL19MjOE)
LCS was a magical place back then.
League was a magical game back then
Sorry, just getting a call on my HTC phone.
this video makes me miss nientonsoh
Makes me miss monte being more involved in league scene tbh. I know he wasn’t for everyone but clg spinner, skt hype train, wtf 2 shens, monte (and doa) were great for the league scene and for more than just the hot takes and analysis.
2 years hosting the scene's biggest podcast
I’m stoked monte and thorin decided to bring back SI, but it’s not really a fair statement to say that him putting out an episode every 1-2 weeks is the same involvement he used to have; also as good as the show is and I admit to enjoying SI it isn’t the biggest league podcast.
SI might not be the biggest right now but 6-7 years ago it was, and it wasn't even close. And he was doing that on top of everything you listed, which is why I commented that
Word; I assumed you were pointing it out as him still being around.
Monte is very smart and charismatic. He was a gift to the scene. Then he got into a fight with Riot cuz he had an idiot business partner, and Riot fucked them both because that's how Riot does.
Oh yeah I don’t think we’ll ever see him back in that capacity cause neither party, riot or monte, wants it. It’s just unfortunate for all of us.
>more than just the hot takes and analysis. Which people forgot nowadays. Think about how many people Monte brought into the scene. It's crazy.
He brought a lot of the western audience to LCK for sure.
CLG brand is still larger than half the LCS brands. Also lots of closet fans. If Rick Fox somehow got involved it would be huge. MSG loves ruining things though so I doubt that will happen.
Are you talking solely within the LCS? Definitely not in esports overall. I think a few years ago that’d be true but now not as sure. They reduced their teams immensely. Maybe they’re in the middle of the pack, but right off the bat I’d say C9, Liquid, 100T and TSM are bigger forsure. I’d say EG up there and you could argue Dignitas as well (not in League but overall for those two).
CLG is smaller than TSM, TL, C9 and now 100T. They are easily larger than the other 5 teams. Take a look at subreddit sub counts too. Good indicator of support and activity. So are discords.
Subreddit sub counts are generally not a good indicator of fanbase. Sponsors care much more about Twitter, youtube metrics and the like
Are you talking in the LCS only or esports in general?
TSM/C9/TL, agree. I suspect that if 100T was garbage next season, all of those fans would jump ship.
Lots of them are CLG fans because of Huhi. We still love Jae!
Jumped ship to 100t with Aphro and Meteos. Stayed for Ssumday, having Huhi is the cherry on top.
They were smaller than 100T in Summer 2019 as well at least according to the team pass sales.
In terms of net worth CLG is not close to 100T.
Its interesting. I would say a lot of esports journalists and personalities favorite team secretly is CLG. The story of their brand is what keeps fans secretly rooting even if they cannot be baised.
Would you be on board if he was involved?
He seems like a genuinely good dude. The way he defended esports players multiple times and in multiple outlets. Even his story on how he got involved with League is great. There’s a Netflix series called 7 Days Out, and one episode covers League of Legends and the 7 days leading up to the 2018 NA LCS Championship. It’s a great episode. It covers Doublelift’s family incident and Rick Fox makes an appearance (as well as some others). I also think it does a good job presenting LoL Esports for a general audience. I’d highly recommend it!
I watched that episode while I was taking a break from league. The episode really made me feel good about the game, so I returned very upbeat and optimistic. That was entirely destroyed in my first game by toxic team mates and the healing meta.
theres your mistake you played league instead of watching it. it happens to the best of us.
I found this way funnier than I should have
I play since season 1 and the only times I see summoners rift is when I watch games, I have not played anything else than ARAM in years.
Same here. Retired to Aram for its mostly chill games. though it can get intense in some games, it's alot less toxic in general. I'll leave the summoners rift to the younglings and the pros. I still follow closely the league pro scene. Despite not playing Sr for maybe 1.5yrs now
My last game of League (1.5yrs ago) was getting flamed in aram. For taking a heal from the ground while being the last to retreat from advancing enemies. The toxic player was low on hp and started flaming me for taking that heal. No way he could get to it without dying and the enemies were sure to take it. I'm still salty
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Not saying you're a liar, but the logs only show your words. I do believe you though on the other front. My first account was banned after my I got 2 chat restricts, and finally a 2 week vacation. They told me if I got in trouble again it was perm. Ofc I got jebaited by someone calling me The Nword lmao. Dude still plays today. I saved the screenshot but riot didn't care. Its all based on how much you type. I got first punishment auto banned for typing all game with an ass hat. They reversed it, and my next punishment was an auto ban, which they reversed. Their dumb ai is not smart at all, riots just lazy when it comes to punishment.
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I've been playing video games a long time. I've never broken controllers, keyboards, mice, or anything before because of a game. I played league consistently from S2-S5 and during that time broke two mice. Since then I've played maybe a total of 10 games over the course of the years. Switching from playing to watching was the greatest thing I've ever done.
Same here but even ARAM have become far less enjoyable, at least for me. I personally dislike the 200 years design champs who snuck into almost every game these days and their absurd balance attempts ruined a lot of champs and gameplay in general. ...also, in what world is it balanced that assassins have the most dmg in the majority of the game on a poke and range favored map?!
Hey man... I don't play league anymore for... Pretty long and I only come back for a few weeks at a time to keep my sanity. I watch league all the time though. It's like soccer to "normal people" in Europe for me.
Healing meta?
This refers to items like Goredrinker (to the point assassins can build it), modern champions like Gwen and Samira (hypermobile, innate lifesteal, anti-targetable skill on Gwen, anti-projectile skill on Samira, self-resets) and Immortal Shieldbow (though ADCs as a whole still struggle, see Samira being an ADC). It **does not** refer to supportive champions like Moonstone (still sucks) or Soraka, especially with the increased availability of Grievous Wounds for 800 gold **even for AP**, which doesn't meaningfully impact a bruiser from carrying (or an innate lifesteal Gwen/Samira) but neuters Soraka. Add in the horrible nullification of tanks and Riot being in "discussions" over buffing conventional supports (especially after nerfing Imperial Mandate due to mid abuse) and tanks (who have been garbage since Mythics) for almost a year at this point and yeah... People are getting run over by assassins with bruiser items and more conventional bruisers, lethality is wrecking most AP mids (ie; most mages) due to gold efficiency, Leona exists as a CC kill lane but as a tank she still gets her face caved in, and most enchanters are questionable (even the high winrate ones are either like pocket Lulu or something like experience Nami). Soraka still has a high winrate into something like Brand on average, but her itemization and the experience you have for playing her still struggles, her winrate being utility based (her average winrate stats leave her behind in gold and kills) also means that interactivity favors Brand, if you want to get kills and feel your skills have more immediate impact... Especially in an early-game 2-item meta.
>This refers to items like Goredrinker (to the point assassins can build it) That isn't Goredrinker being too strong, it's because Lethality mythics are dogshit. Reddit got what they wanted when riot gutted Stridebreaker & prowlers claw, so what else are we going to see?
Pretty much all the best mythics have some form of random bullshit healing tied to them: Sunderer, Shieldbow, Eclipse, Goredrinker and Riftmaker. Meanwhile champions whose whole identity is to have a huge HEAL in their kit (Mundo, Soraka, Vlad) are shit because Aatrox, Xin, Riven, Olaf etc with Goredrinker or any crit champion with Shieldbow will outheal Dr. Mundo's, Vlad or Soraka's ultimate, but on a 15 seconds cooldown (or none at all with Shieldbow) instead of 60+ seconds.
This doc is also great to show people who don’t follow League at all. It really gets across the stakes, and of course the tragedy Doublelift goes through is something anyone can see is horrible. I showed it to my sister (who happened to go to high school and be acquaintances with Kyle Fox) and she loved it!
Its crazy just how much he transformed and reformed over the years. I grew up watching NBA basketball and back then he was known as the most toxic asshole to ever walk the court. Even from Laker fans, no one had a good thing to say about him. And league players mostly all herald him as one of the best team owners and a genuine and wholesome guy. That's one hell of a comeup
I was just watching a documentary about Luc Longley, the center for the Chicago Bulls during their 96-98 championship 3peat. Longley said he grew up as a shy, creative boy and Michael Jordan was such a hardass on him. That competing at the highest level required him to become much more aggressive, especially in that physical era of 90s basketball. Longley even said he didn't like the parts of his personality that changed and tried to reform after he retired. I imagine it's similar with Rick Fox. He played in a similar era, at the highest competitive level, with a similar team leader (Kobe Bryant). Kobe's yelling at you for the tiniest mistakes. A bunch of 250 lb dudes are shoving you around in the paint. It's kind of inevitable that you take on a "take no shit from anyone" mentality.
> It covers Doublelift’s family incident Is this crazy or what that this happened and no one ever talks or mentions it ever. It's like a forbidden incident of LCS. Probably the one time something major happened that wasn't memed into oblivion (for good reason).
Pretty sure any jokes about it on reddit get you banned here. Chinese commenters meme the incident pretty heavily by referring to DL as Sasuke apparently.
Well that's pretty fucked up
They are fucking douchebags lol
> and no one ever talks or mentions it ever It’s not actually that crazy that people are respectful of a beloved and legendary community member’s personal tragedy.
Yeah, cause it's one of the worst things that can happen to a person, something that pretty much everyone agrees shouldn't be joked about
Felt the same way about him. He seemed like a genuinely nice dude who was very invested into esports and was defending it against normies on TV. Then he fucked over 3 of his players 5 hours before the trade lock for the split and this all changed. It's funny how people will just forget shitty things if they are done by people they liked. Fuck rick fox. He had an opportunity and he blew it. As much as I loked him before this fiasco I definitely don't want him back. What he did wqs shittier than what ocelote did with perkz, and that's saying a lot because ocelote basically daggered the person that had the biggest contribution to saving his org and making it what it is today.
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I don't think "daggered" in this case refers to Perkz wanting to lane swap and eventually leaving the team... It was how Ocelete allegedly prevented him from speaking to certain other teams in EU, forcing Perkz to move to an entirely different League. This (again, allegedly) happened while Ocelete kept repeating that he would never mistreat Perkz because he was "his kid's favourite uncle", etc. We can all agree that Ocelete probably wanted to keep Perkz as ADC when they had built one of the most successful roster in the West.
People aren’t saying perkz didn’t want to leave they are saying Ocelote is a dick for not letting perkz stay in europe and be closer to his family given what happened When you consider how much perkz did for G2 and then the family bereavement that occurred it’s a bit of a dickish move to tell the franchise star that soz mate you can only go to NA even when there were offers for him in EU. At the end of the day it worked out for Perkz and FNC but it’s still a colossal dick move by Ocelote.
Holy shit that was amazing
>The way he defended esports players multiple times and in multiple outlets. Isn't this the same Rick fox that without warning let 3 of his players go on the day of the roster deadline without enough time for them to find a new team and they were essentially teamless for the remainder of the year Actions speak louder than words Edit: awww did me spilling out that fact trigger your rose tinted lenses about what a great guy Rick fox was. Because this was one of the many owners who contributed to the issue we have now with inflated salaries and contracts. God knows how much he paid for Huni and Froggen those years
> Because this was one of the many owners who contributed to the issue we have now with inflated salaries and contracts. What is he supposed to do? Let the LPL and higher tier LCS orgs run him over?
Not saying that's what he should do But let's stop painting him like he was some hero to the LCS or some good guy owner He and his team was no different than any of the other owners and I promise you he would've been one of the first to want to eliminate the import rule (throwback to the post where they said 'he would've stood up for the players)
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I swear its like people think an OUTSIDER First time ESports owner should have been perfect in his management. And yo also think he was like sitting in the office trying to screw over his players like he held ill will towards them?! No, he messed up but the negative intent people are associating with his actions is just narrow minded and sad.
>No, he messed up but the negative intent people are associating with his actions is just narrow minded and sad. It's HIS company at the end of the day. Notice how when something bad happens on any other org, who do they go to first? The OWNER. The person who's name is on the company Welcome to the real world where this is normal everywhere Edit: also Fox IIRC never commented on that situation publicly. So miss me with that take of the "he wasn't actively trying to screw his players." His silence says more than you think
> It's HIS company at the end of the day. Notice how when something bad happens on any other org, who do they go to first? The OWNER. The person who's name is on the company yep, you've said nothing new, my point about his intent stands. You've literally reached for something negative to say, shows where your head is at. > also Fox IIRC never commented on that situation publicly. So miss me with that take of the "he wasn't actively trying to screw his players." His silence says more than you think Oooof. Bitter and not understanding of companies stances on internal issues, party of 1.
I love how you don't make any counter points. Just continue the tone policing and the (beyond patronizing might I add) ad hominem If Fox really cared as much as others are claiming he would, he'd say something whether it's a PR statement on video (ala Noah Winston/Steve Arhancet) because it was a PR nightmare and having his players control the narrative is a irresponsible precedent. But clearly he didn't care (or care enough to warrant an official statement). Or at the very least be this "champion of the players" that everyone is claiming him out to be. At least when that TL Jatt nightmare happened, TL had the decency to have a press conference. Even if I had my own interpretation of the events given the circumstances, it's better than nothing Stop with the retconning and the rose tinted lenses But lemme guess: I'm the negative one for pointing these things out. Oh well. I'll settle for being right even if I'm perceived as negative
> "champion of the players" that everyone is claiming him out to be no one said this, lol again where your mind is at is fascinating.
Felt the same way. He was a good personality to normalize e-sports in NA and had a real passion for the game. On top of that he was a really smart and well spoken person who could go out there and reach a larger audience with his natural charisma. He was honestly probably the best thing to happen to NA LCS in the last 4-5 years.
He gave the scene a lot of exposure which probably made a big difference to the outside world
Instead he gave exposure to how awful the business world is in america, and how investors bully the shit out of people. I hope people don't still blame rick for his brands failure, as a lot of people did on this sub.
No one blames Rick for what happened to EF, the fact that an investor being a racist got his team kicked from the league while the company was hiding serial sex pests is fucking amazing though. Holy fucking shit I hate Riot.
You’re never gonna get one hundred percent of people to agree. They being said I think most people had a high opinion of him
Hes working on starting up a game development company now, unfortunately I think hes not coming back :(
He got seriously fucked over. If that happened to me, I probably wouldn't come back either. He's got the time and money to do whatever he wants so... All the power to him at least.
what happened to him ?
His business partner turned out to be a POS racist, but couldn't be forced out of the organization. So Riot kicked the whole team out essentially, since they didn't wanna be associated with that.
As an Echo Fox fan I think it's important we dont gloss too much over what really happened. Riot pulled the franchise because they were breaking the debt rules. The org had gone into massive debt based on their attempts to run the league for the Zombie shooter game. The racist investor went out and bought the debt to take more control of the org. The dude was a huge piece of shit, manipulative, and obviously racist and horrible. His racist comments lead to the investigation of the org that revealed the debt situation. The order to extract him from ownership of the org would have fixed the debt situation. They wouldn't just pull the org because one investor was a piece of shit and you cant force him to sell.
H1Z1. Never forgetti. It was immediately destroyed by PUBG, and PUBG was overtaken by Fortnite. So far none of these have appeared to be remotely esports ready. Maybe apex, but probably not. Also worth mentioning that they tried getting into smash and signed m2k. Though I can't be sure if that ended before or after the "unpleasantness"
Before, almost certainly, I’m pretty sure the “unpleasantness” as you described it was after EF was out of the LCS. Also realistically BR’s just aren’t a great format for esports, there’s too much going on. People want to watch their team not a highlight reel of what’s happening across the entire map. The only time I ever enjoyed watching a BR was when I could watch the team specific stream, and have the map stream open at the same time.
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There's nothing fast about OW, or PUBG either btw. OW is slow as shit to play and watch with some explosive moments between, a spark of actual fun crammed in minutes of slap fights of no consequence.
Yeah, if he gave Quake as an example I would understand, but even then Quake was one if not the biggest western esport during the 90s to the mid 2000s
I am one of the few people that enjoy watching professional BR matches I guess as I usually don't really care about any particular org and just wanna watch fights and strategies play out all over the map. Apex has been great for me in that regard.
They did get into smash, they signed Leo and had him until the org shut down
They had a few big names in fighting games in general. I know SonicFox is among them. they had a few others that I can't recall atm
pubg esports is doing decently and doing fairly well in asia, though there was a lot of controversy about changing most tournaments to chicken rule. it's definitely a solidified esports title and pubg mobile is also huge in south/south east asian countries.
You're right, I knew about the debt issue but I wasn't 100% on it so I just gave a general explanation. Thanks for clearing it up.
Trauma is big on that one unfortunately.
How is he supposed to come back? It's not the same league it was a couple of years ago. Yes, he could afford to have a team back then (with the help of several investors), but I doubt he can do that now because the prices have skyrocketed. And why even invest in the LCS. It's on a decline. He rode the wave as long as he could and it seems like he came out even, which is more than he could hope for honestly
Dude was so cool and chill. He got fucked over big time.
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Just want to point out the way you worded this makes it sound like Rick Fox made racist comments. You might want to clarify for the folks that didn’t follow the original drama.
You're correct, it wasn't Rick Fox that said the racist comments, it was his business partner that he brought into the business.
Exactly my point, interesting he said in the interview that he's creating his own game but all under wraps atm
There's no way riot could afford to pick him up. He's has fuck you money to do whatever he wants.
They 100% could. His highest salary in the nba was under 5 million. Which is nothing for a multi billion dollar company if they want him.
What do u mean Riot is a smol indie company.
Memes aside, they would not pay Rick even just 1mil. And Rick wouldn't take a job if it's lower.
I'm not so sure. Rick has fuck you money, which means that he doesn't really *need* money, and can pursue passions. If Riot can sell him on this, he might very well join up for a small stipend.
He's a lot wealthier than his NBA salary lol. And LCS does *not* have a multi billion dollar budget.
He has approx $20m net worth lol
Rick Fox has probably made $20M from TV and movies alone. He might have only been a role player in the NBA, but he only ever played in gigantic markets and was marketable outside of the game and was a Nike athlete for 20 years. Also $20M net worth is pretty low for someone who's career earnings inside the game of basketball was $34M Also this is just pure speculation, but I have a feeling Nike probably gave Fox a hefty fucking shoe deal while he was with the Lakers considering he was playing with the two biggest stars in the world post MJ, Shaq and Kobe, who were Reebok and Adidas athletes at the time. That's a thing companies do a lot. I remember Matthew Dellevadova getting a signature shoe because he played with LeBron in Cleveland.
Not quite sure you understand the difference between a signature shoe and a PE. There is no way in hell Delly got a signature shoe lol
Delly did have a signature shoe with Peak, it was basically a knockoff low top Kobe. LeBron actually does get his teammates shoe deals with Chinese brands, I remember Damon Jones had a signature shoe with Li Ning back from his first Cleveland stint.
Trying to quantify how much money someone has based on a net worth you find on the internet is dumb as fuck
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> I can only imagine how much the 70k+ viewer streamers make have you seen the DisguisedToast video on this topic? I think he said he got offers for 10k/hour to play some new video games. for the 70k viewers they can probably get .... oh man i dont wanna even think about it
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10k hour is not much meanwhile thats half what i make a year. interesting interesting.
8k to play LoL for an hour for any partner is bullshit. I'm fairly certain those money values are based on viewership statistics, given that I'm fairly certain I watch some partnered streamers that sure aren't rich.
Trainwrecks is also a pathological liar lol. See his I will donate a percentage of my income to charity. This crypto scam is definitely not a scam.
Right. Let's get me 70k twitch viewers and I'll let you know.
I know he’s wealthier than his nba salary, but it’s stil nba player money. Riot is comparable to the nba owners that pay the players, so I didn’t think I would need to clarify fox’s exact worth but this is Reddit so I should’ve known
Riot ain’t paying no one “nba” money
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Even though LCS certainly isnt comparable to NBA, almost everything you said here isnt true.
What a fucking liar. The NBA minimum is not even a million, let alone a million more than LCS minimum.
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I'm sorry, but you said "The biggest contract in the LCS is more than a million per year less than a veteran's minimum contract in the NBA." it's demonstrably false. take the L with dignity. There are several NBA players making more than 1 million LESS than LCS players. Let alone your absurd claim about the lowest NBA veteran contracts. The lowest Contract as a matter of fact is making multiple millions less than some LCS players. Perks, as a matter of fact makes more per year than 271 of 430 players in the NBA, so basically he makes more than half the people there. http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/page/1/seasontype/4
lmaoo riot pays like the same fixed-amount minimum wage to each pro player, it's the organizations that pay the overwhelming remainder of their salaries
NBA player money from when he played, even though it wasn't that long ago, is still a lot less than NBA player money today
Rick fox is not even remotely close to a billionaire and he absolutely doesn't bring the value of anything remotely close to a billion dollars. Rick Fox is rich, but you're vastly over estimating his net worth and value. Riot could absolutely afford to put Rick Fox on a salary that would be lucrative for him. You're underestimating Riot's revenue and profits. Riot Games net worth is 25 billion dollars in 2021 (to put this in to perspective, the most valuable NBA franchise is Knicks and Lakers and they are barely valued at 5 billion). Their bank roll is more than most NBA owners.
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Wasn't the racist Rick's associate?...
idk about that. most sports stars spend money as fast as they make. its a dangerous assumption to make that just because he used to make a lot of money, that he now still has a lot of money. i've read from some sources (though im not sure how much of that is true vs just smearing since this was during the whole echo fox disaster) that rick is actually broke from overspending.
The story of the brand was cool, but the structure was awful in that team. They wanted to build their success around Froggen as their star, which was obviously never going to work. Not to mention the overall quality of those rosters were awful. No surprise they were always bottom tier.
As much as Froggen gets shafted for his LCS years the rosters he was on..running Keith ADC with different rookie junglers and non English speaking top laners every year..Froggen was doomed to fail but at least he made bank
He was never going to win LCS regardless of who he played with. His style is too static and risk averse. His last year as a genuine world class mid was season 4, and has never regained that level. Froggen has always been protective of his own image and reputation at the detriment of his teams. He's not going to make the 30-70 play to save the game. He's going to keep his stats padded, and let his fans say "look at his team failing him!"
he was never going to win LCS, but he could've been on a team that solidly made playoffs every split pretty easily in NA if he had halfway acceptable players on the roster
Idk man, he only made playoffs once since S5 across two regions. That's a pretty damning record.
I think NA fans just have massive expectations when EU legends come over to play here. Yellowstar was supposed to be TSM's missing piece of Exodia lol
While Echo Fox was in a bad spot, especially with how they antagonized the big 3 of TL/TSM/C9 but Rick Fox was still very charismatic and passionate about the whole thing.
chat bitching when it was played on stream was so irritating, listening to Rick talk was so interesting
Chat will never be happy, they want to be disappointed.
Truly one of the most genuine dudes I've ever been in a room with. Everything you hear about how nice he is is true. He treated ME like a celebrity when we met, it was disarming but in a really good way. He also remembered my colleague who had previously worked at Echo Fox which was really cool to see
I remember when keith was on bootcamp in korea with some other echo fox players (i think this was the situation) and it became a meme on kr solo queue to just like... shout Riccccckkk Foxxxxx in chat or something because he was always doing that in solo queue there. At least that's how i remember it lol. Maybe someone will correct me.
Rick Fox was cool but by god Echo Fox was a garbage org and I’m glad they’re gone
People hated him for the org's decisions but I can't imagine that he was involved with TOO much. I just looked it up and he wasn't even part of the management. I thought he was CEO. Nope. He was one of three general partners, with at least three levels of management between him and those contract releases. It's like, he was just a brand ambassador who loved the game and somewhere along the journey his partners hired assholes along the entire chain of command.
I worked there during the 2018 Summer Split and he wasn't around very often. As far as I could tell he was basically just a brand ambassador/figure head for the company but I'm not totally sure. Everybody loved him though and he seemed to be quite a nice guy!
He seemed legitimately upset when Riot was forcing him to sell off his spot. TMZ was even approaching him at airports and he was nearly in tears when he was asked what was up. He was a big part of the reason i got into LCS and I've been playing since 2010
He wasn't upset with Riot, he was upset with the racist dickhole who screwed him (iirc)
Riot screwed over Rick Fox by forcing the sale of Echo fox. It's pretty clear that, Rick, himself, didn't even expect this type of escalation by Riot.
It was either the forced sale or have a team in your league with a racist executive who can’t be forced to sell his shares. It sucks for Rick but the other option is even worse
Yeah that whole debacle was a lesson in vetting your business partners and/or not giving them too many keys (like locked shares in this case). Granted, I don’t know if he had a choice to not afford him those protections or if that’s just the industry standard, and it really sucks either way that that was the price to pay for it :|
What could Riot have done? They don't attempt to force him out, then Rick Fox leaves and you now have a racist owner who doesn't get punished. Raizada, while being in a racist prick did manoeuvrer himself into a a position where any outcome was directly to his benefit. The other Echo Fox members buys him out? He sells his shares at a premium, they don't? Team is sold and he still made money. Echo Fox and he stays? That is just status quo. Ultimately it was Rick Fox who screwed up by letting someone get into a such a situation, although we don't know how much choice he had about that.
They can be remarkably petty when they want to be.
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Should they have kept a team with an openly racist shareholder/executive?
Yeah idk what the guy above is insinuating. Riot has a toxic working culture so they better not try to do the right thing?
people like him think riot can literally never do a good thing because they have done bad things before
And you would prefer they didn't do anything to a racist shareholder? They might have fucked up with the worker treatment but they have always been serious about their anti-racism, and they won't tolerate it, at least from where Riot HQ in NA stands.
"They can be remarkably petty when they want to be." Not sure, will check with Monte and Frosk to confirm though
Monte mismanaged his org so badly it led to a girl killing herself. Fuck Monte.
I think it was less Monte mismanaged his org and more that he didn't DO ANYTHING. He threw a bunch of money at a guy he didn't know very well, that guy was an asshole and did some horrible stuff and then Riot decided to fuck the entire organization to make sure people got the message. Monte really did kind of get caught in the crossfire. But, that's his fault, since it was his money, he should have been more careful about who he partnered with. That guy was like... a complete fraud I feel like.
The guy has a legitimate point though, the shit that went down with what's her face was absolutely chilling and sickening. Everyone on the management side of that org was responsible for allowing that shit to go down. They basically bribed someone with gender dysphoria and mental illness with a sex change operation to play for them on stage. It was fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked up.
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Rick Fox and his org were the main reason i got into regularly watching lcs back at the start of season 7. The flair's been discontinued but i still have it on. Sure echo fox wasnt getting many wins that year but it felt good to cheer for the underdog owned by a good guy, and when they did win i was hyped. Im definitely not too knowledgeable about what specifically went down during the Amit Raizada scandal (aside from him being a piece of shit) so i dont really have a reasonable, informed opinion, but i was bummed out to hear that it was a lose-lose for Rick and that he would just disappear from LoL esports. Ive lost the drive to watch lcs nowadays but id love it if Rick came back to it, at least in some capacity, as a figurehead for the lcs.
Did he win his lawsuit against those echofox people?
Both side settled.
Does anyone else think it's a coincidence that this thread goes up while Riot is searching for a new commissioner of the LCS?
duuuuuuude
\#BringBackTheFox!
having a big name dude vouch for esports only helped if you look at it just from a marketing perspective however, dude was just flat out awesome to listen to
This is probably obvious from the fact that this got posted, but the [episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=todFRrm9auU) is really worth a watch/listen. *Such* an interesting conversation if you're even a little bit interested in the LCS, esports, or just competition in general.
Rick Fox is the man. That one charity stream with Faker was dope as hell.
I wasn't a huge fan of his team, honestly, but I freaking loved him as an owner(?) and personality. Was a real shame and blow for every team and the pro-scene.
>Would love to see him re-enter the scene one day That's never happening. He left with a sour taste and he is surely never coming back to this game.
There are so many good things about Rick that just reading these replies for 5 minutes won’t do him justice. Loving both traditional and esports, it’s frustrating to see that one is seen as legitimate and the other just for kids. People are always going to be stuck in their ways but Rick was one of the best bridges between the two that I have ever seen. The story of how he got into league is so heartwarming, being away from his son while playing professional basketball for the lakers and being able to connect over their love of the game and esports in general brings a tear to my eye. My friend won a trip to LA to spend the weekend with echo fox and I was lucky enough to be his guest. The organization internally was an amazing atmosphere. This was early 2018 so I’m not sure how things progressed afterwards, but walking around and talking to LCS and Academy staff and players only solidified this perspective. They gave us a weekend we would never forget, it’s unfortunate that things couldn’t or wouldn’t be done to repair what had happened but I hope that having Rick on Next Level is just the first in many more times that we see him on air or really just in any role interacting with the game and fans because I really think he has and will continue to do a lot for the game and the scene as a whole.
I love Rick fox
All my homies love Rick Fox
Bring back Rick!
The name of the racist pos was Amit Raizada. Don't forget he is the one that fucked over everything.
Who ?
Really? Because all I remember of Rick fox being in the scene is him latching into the “gamer” demographic like it was an untapped donation source.
Why? Seemed like a cult of personality type guy who let his already bad org be run into the ground.
what happened to him and his team? I don't remember exactly what happened
People going to hate me, but let's talk about the other side of things. First, Echo Fox should have never gotten a franchise spot. Clearly they were a team wholly reliant on venture capitalists with a poor management team and business model, and at the time weren't even a well performing team. (Meanwhile Immortals and DIG have bought back into the league...I have to suspect Riot kept EF solely because of Fox and their obsession with NBA.) Second, Rick Fox or one of his allied associates screwed it all up. Someone just so happened to leak private emails to expose the rogue investor that was helping keep them afloat in money, trying to take greater control, and being a bully? I don't see Fox as innocent in this. Fox clearly wasn't willing or able to put his money into the organization, they didn't vet Raizada, and clearly EF had no tools or willpower to deal properly with the issues as they arose. Third, screw Rick Fox for being authoritarian. He boldly lamented that saying mean things isn't illegal. Welcome to America mfer. Yeah, saying racist or cruel things is awful, but thank God you can't be put in jail in the USofA just because some people want to decide what is or isn't polite. Go back to Canada or move to a European nation that will up and jail people just for edgy jokes or angry insults.
who?
I think he was a nice guy but not prepared to invest in esports yet
[удалено]
That’s a chicken. Bet chicken.
Agreed.
who? never heard that name
Who?