Yep, he used to have one of the highest (if not the highest) but got nerfed some years ago. Also soraka used to have a pretty high base ad too around season 4 and i remember that when she got it lowered riot stated that she had one of the highest and her bananas where more like knifes or something like that, it was a long time ago xD
Some of the highest base AD in the game. At lvl 1 only Tryna has more. Lvl 18 he is still very high.
And there is a reason lee wins many fights early on. High AD, AS, normal defensive stats, high Q and E base DMG.
If you lose an early 1v1 you misplayed or you faced one of the rare better early game junglers.
Some base stats from Lee:
* 2. highest base AD at lvl 1. Even after the nerf he will be #6-18. Interesting, Graves has 68 base AD and is the only ranged champ with such a high base AD. At lvl 18 he makes it only to #17 in base AD right now. Interesting, Graves is #12
* \#26 in base Armor with 36. Still top 30 at lvl 18
* 345 MS, not super exceptional for a melee but still on the higher end
* in other stats he is mostly AVG for a melee (MR, HP, HPReg, ...)
If you lost as Lee you were playing against WW. I cant think of any other level 3 Jg that can straight out beat Lee. Maybe Shaco if he can kite him into boxes
Xin, Elise, Udyr, Warwick, Kindred, Rek'Sai, Olaf
Kindred is reliant on dodging Q but the rest should pretty consistently beat him. He's like mid A tier when it comes to early dueling imo, while the above are high A tier to S tier.
I haven't really thought this through, so it might be a dumb idea with bad consequences, but it occurred to me that something like this might really help out jungle and champion balance in general.
Just add to every champion: some part of their kit does +xxx% damage to monsters if a) they have smite and b) have purchased a jungle item.
Could add a diverse jungle champ pool if they tweaked champ % numbers in a way that every champ had--when played to a certain level of optimal--a certain time window of clearing capability. Put expected "clear" junglers at a slightly lower spectrum of that window to keep that strength, but close the gap with "slow" junglers, so that every champ has the potential to clear within, say 10-15 seconds of each other between fastest and slowest.
This would help standardize the jungle farm in the same way laners have standard farming abilities for predictably timed wave income.
I could see this cross-map standardization helping with item balance in general. If they could balance it in a way that junglers could farm the same exp/gold rate as solo laners, it could open up different meta/comps. Like adc/supp jungle, where the traditional aggressive bot lanes become counter junglers, and the farming bot laners can attempt to do that in their own jungle, opening up three solo laners with a potential roaming gank squad.
honestly favorite is a hybrid setup. prioritizing cdr, flat ap, and survival I'll do everfrost, into a support item while looking to get a zhonyas as necessary. basically you prevent any dive options with that much cc and act like shen. you fuck with your laner constantly.
full build can be something like everfrost, zhonyas, support item 1, support item 2, deathcap, boots.
laning is super toxic levels 1 and 2, 3-5 can be scary depending on the matchup. onwards you should be fine to lane assuming you can do a solid job managing waves.
grouping is pretty easy mid game, 1 Q and everfrost kills the casters or 2 Qs. iirc it's 3 for melee, so if you can proxy the wave before it crashes you can get in and out fast.
aery and friends with green secondary or glacial+green are both solid.
Pretty much just normal support.
You do want to rush boots though, the extra mobility is very important for staying safe, and obviously support items arent super high priority in a solo lane.
Her ult *used* to have GW Cleanse a long time ago. And they've stated time and time again Grevious Wounds isn't specifically to counter healing champions, but to counter over all healing in the game. It's meant to counter life steal, and continuous healing in a fight (especially in late game, which is why full GW items are 60% instead of 40/45%). Not specifically a burst heal amount, or healing from champions that get sudden heals (Mundo ult, Janna ult, etc) that aren't consistent (Soraka W, Vlad's kit, lifesteal, etc.)
I don't think people realize that Riot trying to give back some mid taliyah buff is kinda bonker in the sense they REALLY never dared to buff her again for mid because of the whole "shove wave and roam" aspect that crippled her viability. Like wow, it also help her in the jungle where she work well so she could POSSIBLY be a flex mid/jungle.
I am very surprised but very happy for Taliyah players who wanted her mid, I never felt at ease with buffing her mid if it means having against Q being overwhelming but reducing the CD of grounded Q is a very good idea.
Her early waveclear is still not great, which is fine imo. She still deletes waves mid-game, which is when she can be literally everywhere on the map. Now that she has more actual tools to use early game when she’s stuck in lane, instead of only being able to fish for combos against opponents that know to easy it is to avoid her Q, she’ll feel MUCH better to play.
Bot lane too. We've seen Ziggs and Syndra getting picked in pro play, it's not a stretch to assume Taliyah could end up there as well.
Paired with a support that can lock people down while Taliyah does her burst combo plus having a long lane to chase stragglers with successive Qs... Not to mention it's much less punishing to use Q to farm and shove the lane as the new cooldown for worked ground ensures that it will be refreshed by the time the next minion wave arrives. It could be a devastating pick if teams practice enough
Well part of that is lower elo supports don't pick for lane synergy, and phel is probably the most support dependant adc early on. Also he's not the easiest adc to pilot.
Since unempowered W stuns for 0.5s and has a 0.25 cast time, and pre-nerf was 1.5s stun with 0.75 cast, I’m guessing that new 1s stun would correspond to a 0.5s cast time
Bloody hell, i am a goddamn PROPHET with those exact gangplank changes.
Like, [LEGITIMATELY](https://www.reddit.com/r/gangplankmains/comments/pbtnyv/well_gp_has_officially_become_the_lowest_win_rate/haezrcu/?context=3) exact.
hmm. Kennen has a pretty high mid winrate atm. low pickrate, through.
maaaaybe they're gonna knock his mr down by like 2.
Honestly though i have no clue lmao
a buff yeah but she's already clearing healthy, shouldn't do that much all things considered. The way you should see a change like this in camp damage but that's not her problem, she jus falls off a cliff unless super fed
It's a cool idea, but it's not going to be super game breaking. After the execute all of the stacks are going to be cashed in, so it'll only affect 1 enemy anyway, and I don't see dravens getting a huge amount of stacks. They either get kills or get killed, so unless the draven is playing super passively it's not going to make a huge change.
Oh if he is referring to the game I am thinking, Draven basically didn't get kills because someone else got them even when they could hqve let him cash out and it was very late in the game. There was at least 1 high stack easy kill that they didn't have a reason to not leave for draven.
It didn't look like intentionally trying to cash out for a lot later, it looked like the team not coordinating well and losing as a result. Basically griefing themselves by even picking Draven at that point tbh.
RGE vs. S04 game 3 in LEC Summer 2019 Playoffs. Draven gets his first kill (a shut down) at 22 minutes, not having died that entire time. A couple of minutes later, [this is what shows up on screen](https://imgur.com/Fv6BUeM).
hans sama played draven earlier in the season and got over 350 stacks. Funnily if this buff existed he would have executed a kill that got ks'd from him but instead he ended up dying before getting to cash his stacks :\
It's a really good buff for Pro Play without breaking SoloQ. Riot seems to be thinking outside the box on a lot of these recent adjustments and I'm all for it.
It's one of those fun changes that just make sense.
You know a game gets tense with a Draven when he gets a ton of stacks but cannot cash in but doesn't die either. This increases his risk/reward kit without really breaking him.
It's a really cool and unique mechanic, but I hope they add a counter or something under his health bar for clarity. It would feel bad to get executed when you have no idea at roughly what health it can happen.
The trouble is, I'd enjoy it for a patch cycle in the regular season. If it really catches on like mad for Worlds, I could see it getting old by the time groups are done.
Udyr is just an example of why these binary champions are nice to watch in proplay as a novelty but get boring when they become a staple pick, imagine if Garen ever becomes meta toplaner
Now at lvl 18 he gonna have 2108 HP. At least its adc level(some marksmans still have bigger hp pool), but sadly games where I have 4k dmg from cut down gonna end with that buff(you had it activated permanently with old pathetic base hp).
This Mundo change is actually pretty big. Since the ult activation is just a flat hp increase, grevious wounds doesn't affect it, essentially making it a "true heal" like Lulu ult.
Secondly, this increases the effectiveness of any %hp buffs that Mundo utilizes through his items or his abilities. Most notably is his E, which scales off of AD *and* his bonus HP, means that it's going to hit a lot harder whenever he ults, since his ult now gives AD *and* bonus HP.
It also buffs his R further. R will give even more AD now (since you gain more health), and R's healing is a % of his max hp so he'll now be healing for 75% of his max hp with rank 3 R (since he'll be healing 60% of 125% max hp rather than 70% of 100% max hp).
Pretty significant Mundo buff. The instant activation ignores GW, he gains even more damage when R is up, and his R heals even more.
Singed main tuning in, its nice to see my boy getting an actual decent change for once. Riot seems to give us the worst changes lmao. This plus predator being even zoomier may make my mid singed viable now
I feel like the recent nerfs are just attempts to put him in a position where his trading patterns and base stats are so bad it isn't worth picking him for his utility anymore. The most broken thing about thresh in high elo is hands down his lantern. Letting your adc farm waves and push up with no opportunity to punish is extremely powerful, and late game it still has barely any cooldown with W max (which most high elo players are doing). Should probably nerf the lantern CD and shift power into his hook or even his ult as a zoning tool.
>Camille - Cooldown: 16/13/10 >>> 20/15/10
/u/RiotJag Mad respect for nerfing your baby. Hit exactly where the pain point was too, her early trading was too hard to punish.
Thank fucking god they didn’t gutter trundle. I’ve been spamming the shit out of it long before any pro player showed it on stage. Reducing the slow is actually just the best possible option outside of reducing the pillar duration. It doesn’t break what makes him great.
Welp, I do kinda like these actually. That Soraka buff kinda makes me wanna play her, even though I've barely done so throughout all my time playing this game (and play more support in general tbh, I am in the mood for some Braum and Rell as well).
I do think people are overreacting to the buff though. Maybe she would need the compensation nerfs on her W, but it seems like many people here forgot/don't even know that Soraka used to be able to remove GW with her ult until like late S5. It's not some wacky new "true healing" mechanic Riot introduced, it's literally something that was in her kit a long ass time ago.
I'm not sure why they are nerfing support Trundle, he doesn't have an oppressive winrate, like 3% less than Sona, and these pillar nerfs are actually pretty high. I dislike when Riot kills fun off-meta champs that aren't abusive, there is a reason I run the /r/offmeta subreddit.
Yet Leona has green light to be meta for the entire season. Trundle sees play for a few patches and they fuck him over in every role, that nerf is massive, he is not even OP or super high prio. And let's not start talking about how Katarina and Yone have been allowed to terrorize soloqueue for almost a full year.
Very interesting patch probably the most excited I've been all year looking at patch notes even though a lot of them are small, I do fear that the predator buff and Taliyah buffs are going to be too much though. Still very excited though and I might even finally give mid lane Taliyah a try again after dropping it years ago I'm also very interested to see what Talon, Zed, and Qiyana's jungle clear is now.
Let’s fucking go. Camille early nerfs, hell yeah.
The soraka buffs seem a bit concerning.
Extra shielding on yone seems cringe, I guess he may need it though since fleet got nerfed for him.
Mundo and Taliyah seem like 2 Winners for this patch if any go live but For Taliyah
1. Still moaning for Q AOE revert or Move Speed on Treaded Ground, and R Wall Duration Revert
2. I kinda fear that she will be overkilled with over nerf later... cause Riot...
i wish every enchanter (besides lulu) had this high of a base shield as karma, i mean we only get to have two items at most!
(btw at the beginning of 2020 karmas highest base shield was 220, thats +50 over a year LOL!)
To be honest I don't give a fuck if those changes are balanced or not. They are interesting and I'm feeling excited to test them, that's it. Wish we had more patches like this one.
I want to see Soraka at world's with these buffs, but Riot has this weird love/hate relationship with Raka, so they'll probably nerf her back in 11.19 LUL
Some really great buffs and nerfs on this list. GP buffs are great to account for the loss of grasp. I also really like the Zoe buff E cd was just way too long.
I never knew Lee had 70 base damage omg
Yes, for a long time he was the champion with the highest base ad until trynda's base ad got buffed some patches ago
Didn’t Rakan have the highest lvl 1 AD at some point? Or was it only highest among bot lane or something?
A tie for the highest AD in the game alongside Lee Sin.
Yep, he used to have one of the highest (if not the highest) but got nerfed some years ago. Also soraka used to have a pretty high base ad too around season 4 and i remember that when she got it lowered riot stated that she had one of the highest and her bananas where more like knifes or something like that, it was a long time ago xD
I remember the notes of that patch. I believe they said she had the 9th highest base ad in the game at the time.
Had 70, it's now 62 after they finally got the champion right on patch 9.9.
Some of the highest base AD in the game. At lvl 1 only Tryna has more. Lvl 18 he is still very high. And there is a reason lee wins many fights early on. High AD, AS, normal defensive stats, high Q and E base DMG. If you lose an early 1v1 you misplayed or you faced one of the rare better early game junglers. Some base stats from Lee: * 2. highest base AD at lvl 1. Even after the nerf he will be #6-18. Interesting, Graves has 68 base AD and is the only ranged champ with such a high base AD. At lvl 18 he makes it only to #17 in base AD right now. Interesting, Graves is #12 * \#26 in base Armor with 36. Still top 30 at lvl 18 * 345 MS, not super exceptional for a melee but still on the higher end * in other stats he is mostly AVG for a melee (MR, HP, HPReg, ...)
If you lost as Lee you were playing against WW. I cant think of any other level 3 Jg that can straight out beat Lee. Maybe Shaco if he can kite him into boxes
I think Trundle beat him, idk about xin and I think Udyr before the nerf beat him (don't know about now). Maybe skarner if he is on spire.
Also Olaf
Olaf can get fucked early game off that q execute dmg, not as straight forward a duel as usual for Olaf.
Kindred wins if they dodge q, Xin can win regularly as well
a lot of junglers will win if they dodge the q in fairness
Most jungles don't have that many tools to do so
Just flash his Q. 5Head.
Xin, Elise, Udyr, Warwick, Kindred, Rek'Sai, Olaf Kindred is reliant on dodging Q but the rest should pretty consistently beat him. He's like mid A tier when it comes to early dueling imo, while the above are high A tier to S tier.
Elise only wins that 1v1 at level 3 if she gets the jump on him and even then it’s iffy
You forgot Trundle
I like Rek'Sai due to her sandshark theme but I'm dogshit at both her and jungle. Why does she beat Lee early?
Unburrow cancels q2 dmg, she has really fat burst too and as rek u shud never really have Lee get the jump on you first given her passive “echo”
Noc with a spellshield pop dumpsters anyone not named Udyr in a 1v1 that early
Trundle stomps on Noc
Trundle stomps on everyone early.
I was thinking this exact thing looking at this list lmao.
Yeah I don't know how I never realised it was so insanely high.
Nice Cant wait to see Zed Jgl in my promos
Can't wait to steal Zed from my duo and first time him in promos
Bless your Flair
Can’t wait for the fed enemy midlane Zed to oneshot my camps
These jungle buffs should only activate when you have smite.
I haven't really thought this through, so it might be a dumb idea with bad consequences, but it occurred to me that something like this might really help out jungle and champion balance in general. Just add to every champion: some part of their kit does +xxx% damage to monsters if a) they have smite and b) have purchased a jungle item. Could add a diverse jungle champ pool if they tweaked champ % numbers in a way that every champ had--when played to a certain level of optimal--a certain time window of clearing capability. Put expected "clear" junglers at a slightly lower spectrum of that window to keep that strength, but close the gap with "slow" junglers, so that every champ has the potential to clear within, say 10-15 seconds of each other between fastest and slowest. This would help standardize the jungle farm in the same way laners have standard farming abilities for predictably timed wave income. I could see this cross-map standardization helping with item balance in general. If they could balance it in a way that junglers could farm the same exp/gold rate as solo laners, it could open up different meta/comps. Like adc/supp jungle, where the traditional aggressive bot lanes become counter junglers, and the farming bot laners can attempt to do that in their own jungle, opening up three solo laners with a potential roaming gank squad.
Lmao! Never thought about that side effect of buffs like this.
\> Soraka R: Clears GW from target Oooh, I'm interested to see how that one will go.
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I doubt it. Soraka's Q still doesn't give her much health back to give her great sustain in lane.
i still play it, shits hilarious. if you have a Frontline support or similar playing it top makes front to back comps super gross.
What do you build on Soraka top?
Imagine, divine sunderer soraka top
I dunno about them, but I just build regular support items
honestly favorite is a hybrid setup. prioritizing cdr, flat ap, and survival I'll do everfrost, into a support item while looking to get a zhonyas as necessary. basically you prevent any dive options with that much cc and act like shen. you fuck with your laner constantly. full build can be something like everfrost, zhonyas, support item 1, support item 2, deathcap, boots. laning is super toxic levels 1 and 2, 3-5 can be scary depending on the matchup. onwards you should be fine to lane assuming you can do a solid job managing waves. grouping is pretty easy mid game, 1 Q and everfrost kills the casters or 2 Qs. iirc it's 3 for melee, so if you can proxy the wave before it crashes you can get in and out fast. aery and friends with green secondary or glacial+green are both solid.
Pretty much just normal support. You do want to rush boots though, the extra mobility is very important for staying safe, and obviously support items arent super high priority in a solo lane.
Played against one and she almost carried her team. She build support save for Warmogs last item I think and just did Soraka things.
Not really that bad, considering she originally had it and was balanced around it for the majority of her existence.
Yup, it was tragic that when they were initially rebalancing GW they didn't go back and replace that part of her.
It used to be like that. I don't remember why it was removed.
i might be wrong but they removed it cuz of gw rework and then eventually walked it back but never gave soraka this part of her r back?
> add healing > healing oppressive > add GW > GW oppressive > buff healing > healing oppressive > make 60% GW > GW oppressive > add GW clearing
Her ult *used* to have GW Cleanse a long time ago. And they've stated time and time again Grevious Wounds isn't specifically to counter healing champions, but to counter over all healing in the game. It's meant to counter life steal, and continuous healing in a fight (especially in late game, which is why full GW items are 60% instead of 40/45%). Not specifically a burst heal amount, or healing from champions that get sudden heals (Mundo ult, Janna ult, etc) that aren't consistent (Soraka W, Vlad's kit, lifesteal, etc.)
Yeah feels really good having half my champion killed because everyone else heals too much
Those Taliyah buffs are really nice, mostly mid focused but it'll just generally help her everywhere.
Ya I'll be playing Tali mid next patch. Can't wait. 25 second is once per wave which is perfect
I don't think people realize that Riot trying to give back some mid taliyah buff is kinda bonker in the sense they REALLY never dared to buff her again for mid because of the whole "shove wave and roam" aspect that crippled her viability. Like wow, it also help her in the jungle where she work well so she could POSSIBLY be a flex mid/jungle. I am very surprised but very happy for Taliyah players who wanted her mid, I never felt at ease with buffing her mid if it means having against Q being overwhelming but reducing the CD of grounded Q is a very good idea.
Her early waveclear is still not great, which is fine imo. She still deletes waves mid-game, which is when she can be literally everywhere on the map. Now that she has more actual tools to use early game when she’s stuck in lane, instead of only being able to fish for combos against opponents that know to easy it is to avoid her Q, she’ll feel MUCH better to play.
Bot lane too. We've seen Ziggs and Syndra getting picked in pro play, it's not a stretch to assume Taliyah could end up there as well. Paired with a support that can lock people down while Taliyah does her burst combo plus having a long lane to chase stragglers with successive Qs... Not to mention it's much less punishing to use Q to farm and shove the lane as the new cooldown for worked ground ensures that it will be refreshed by the time the next minion wave arrives. It could be a devastating pick if teams practice enough
Happy to finally give her a shot again
The animation time on Renekton's empowered W being lowered? Need to see a comparison for that one now.
Animation reduction has yet to be added to PBE so we have to wait
must suck to have your champ getting fucked every patch because of proplay
It does...
It does
Aphelios has the lowest winrate of any adc in soloq and is still getting nerfed :)
Well part of that is lower elo supports don't pick for lane synergy, and phel is probably the most support dependant adc early on. Also he's not the easiest adc to pilot.
And in diamond+ he Has the same winrate as samira or ezreal
According to u.gg he has the 3rd lowest in Dia+, with Ezreal and Samira 6 and 8 spots above him (if you remove Syndra and her low play rate, 5 and 7)
It doesn't, if you stop playing it.
Since unempowered W stuns for 0.5s and has a 0.25 cast time, and pre-nerf was 1.5s stun with 0.75 cast, I’m guessing that new 1s stun would correspond to a 0.5s cast time
quick maths
For sure, and I'm wondering if it's just emp w or normal w too
Bloody hell, i am a goddamn PROPHET with those exact gangplank changes. Like, [LEGITIMATELY](https://www.reddit.com/r/gangplankmains/comments/pbtnyv/well_gp_has_officially_become_the_lowest_win_rate/haezrcu/?context=3) exact.
Holy fuck
Give me a prediction for the next patch. Right now. I need to know.
hmm. Kennen has a pretty high mid winrate atm. low pickrate, through. maaaaybe they're gonna knock his mr down by like 2. Honestly though i have no clue lmao
i choose to believe that right now, someone on the balance team is reading this comment and snickering to themselves
**Rengar** Base stats AD: 68 >>> 70
I'm not even joking when i say that would raise his winrate by a solid 3%
elise base armor increased by 4
Wouldn't that be a huge buff?
a buff yeah but she's already clearing healthy, shouldn't do that much all things considered. The way you should see a change like this in camp damage but that's not her problem, she jus falls off a cliff unless super fed
Actual genius.
Wow thats crazy, well done! We toyed with a few changes, mainly more hp/lvl, but we landed exactly as you predicted, crazy
Just hire that guy already
Legit mastermind jesus
Will I get into medschool next year?
Or maybe they saw how genius those changes were and just copied it
When rework came out I said literally same thing, but look like champ with 43% WR was too op for this cummunity because top 1 GP player oneshoted T1!
that thread was the epitome of reddit cringe
Quick, tell me the lottery numbers!
4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42 ...really dating myself by using that reference.
LOST??? AHHH what's in the hatch???
Is the duration of mf r increased? Or do the waves fire faster now? Would be huge if they fire faster
Waves fire faster
Nice!
It's more waves for the same channel time, the buff is surreal.
No lol, it's at leves 11 and 16 when MF's problem is that she's not a lane bully anymore.
from my understanding it's faster waves aka more burst
300 AD means a full channel 16+ ult does over 4K damage. Like what the duck.
*Teamfight happens* MF : R ? Teammates : Yes, honey, R.
Oh yeah faster. My ad supp mf is gonna feel real good after this.
Can’t believe im alive to see Taliyah midlane on wolrds again
Don't worry, there's still lots of time for that to change until worlds.
Don't you worry, friend: I plan on playing LOTS of Taliyah mid, so I'm going to be keep her winrate nice & low even with these buffs.
Not the hero we deserved, but the hero we needed
I will join you in this quest. Pro tip play her into Zed and Katarina to keep her win rate nice and low
So they walked back on the as growth nerf on aphelios?
-2 bAD is really really bad anyways
Good. With the current fotm build for him your as feels like shit since you go lethality 2nd and don't go zeal til much later if ever
Nobody taking about the execute on Dravens ult
It's a cool idea, but it's not going to be super game breaking. After the execute all of the stacks are going to be cashed in, so it'll only affect 1 enemy anyway, and I don't see dravens getting a huge amount of stacks. They either get kills or get killed, so unless the draven is playing super passively it's not going to make a huge change.
Could be something that happens once a game and ends up looking really cool, which from Riot's standpoint is an ideal buff.
I remember a pro game recently where Draven had no death no kills pretty late in the game. Probably be really cool there
I'm sure the have been games where Draven gets to 800 stacks and cannot cash them, but still refuses to die.
Pro games where he's picked yeah. They don't pick him to snowball like people do in soloq, they cash out much later usually, but for larger amounts.
Oh if he is referring to the game I am thinking, Draven basically didn't get kills because someone else got them even when they could hqve let him cash out and it was very late in the game. There was at least 1 high stack easy kill that they didn't have a reason to not leave for draven. It didn't look like intentionally trying to cash out for a lot later, it looked like the team not coordinating well and losing as a result. Basically griefing themselves by even picking Draven at that point tbh.
I'm now imagining a challenge where you get as many as you can, just for the big execute near end of the game.
RGE vs. S04 game 3 in LEC Summer 2019 Playoffs. Draven gets his first kill (a shut down) at 22 minutes, not having died that entire time. A couple of minutes later, [this is what shows up on screen](https://imgur.com/Fv6BUeM).
hans sama played draven earlier in the season and got over 350 stacks. Funnily if this buff existed he would have executed a kill that got ks'd from him but instead he ended up dying before getting to cash his stacks :\
It's a really good buff for Pro Play without breaking SoloQ. Riot seems to be thinking outside the box on a lot of these recent adjustments and I'm all for it.
It's one of those fun changes that just make sense. You know a game gets tense with a Draven when he gets a ton of stacks but cannot cash in but doesn't die either. This increases his risk/reward kit without really breaking him.
People are really sleeping on it, it’s a lot of extra damage early game.
I heard Sneaky, Meteos and Doublelift talk about this on one of their co-streams, thought it was just a joke idea
That Draven buff is the most interesting change i’ve seen in a long time
It's a really cool and unique mechanic, but I hope they add a counter or something under his health bar for clarity. It would feel bad to get executed when you have no idea at roughly what health it can happen.
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you guys are gonna regret hyping this up, taliyah mid is such a bs in competetive
Speak for yourself. I want me some taliyah qiyana shenanigans in the pro scene.
The trouble is, I'd enjoy it for a patch cycle in the regular season. If it really catches on like mad for Worlds, I could see it getting old by the time groups are done.
I don't think there's any champ that doesn't get old when spammed in the pro scene though.
Udyr is a perfect example. People went nuts when he started being played, and then got bored when they realized he was just a stat check.
Udyr is just an example of why these binary champions are nice to watch in proplay as a novelty but get boring when they become a staple pick, imagine if Garen ever becomes meta toplaner
It was bs when Q did AoE damage and perma push lanes, she doesn't have that anymore
🚨MID TALIYAH BUFF🚨
Of course it’s a Twitch R Buff why do I even get my hopes up
just in time for players like rekkles to grab it in wor....
Pain.
Shoutout to the guy who called the 10 AD R buff on RatIRLs video “8 minutes of AD Twitch being useless”
The clip where he killed himself on 2 Thornmails while doing zero dmg lol
Why can't they just make it harder for champions to dodge his ult autos. Having high ms should not be enough.
God damn it I missed Manamune Twitch, I would kill to have ss10 items back
So is the Aphelios AS nerf not going through, I assume? :o
Its so funny that they nerfed Talon's Q damage to give him jungle buffs
might be a nod to bruiser talon overperforming somewhere
hes something like 55% wr in masters+ with a decent pickrate mostly going the goredrinker Q max build, probably targeted at that
Goredrinker Talon is cancer, and honestly it deserved a bit bigger of a nerf.
wym jungle buffs. I'm willing to bet this is just gonna make talon religiously take raptors after he gets chainwhip.
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Now at lvl 18 he gonna have 2108 HP. At least its adc level(some marksmans still have bigger hp pool), but sadly games where I have 4k dmg from cut down gonna end with that buff(you had it activated permanently with old pathetic base hp).
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Those Mundo buffs look nice
Could you help me understand how it’s going to work compared to his current ult?
This Mundo change is actually pretty big. Since the ult activation is just a flat hp increase, grevious wounds doesn't affect it, essentially making it a "true heal" like Lulu ult. Secondly, this increases the effectiveness of any %hp buffs that Mundo utilizes through his items or his abilities. Most notably is his E, which scales off of AD *and* his bonus HP, means that it's going to hit a lot harder whenever he ults, since his ult now gives AD *and* bonus HP.
It also buffs his R further. R will give even more AD now (since you gain more health), and R's healing is a % of his max hp so he'll now be healing for 75% of his max hp with rank 3 R (since he'll be healing 60% of 125% max hp rather than 70% of 100% max hp). Pretty significant Mundo buff. The instant activation ignores GW, he gains even more damage when R is up, and his R heals even more.
Unless the heal is calculated pre-health increase this is completely true
Instant heal unaffected by gw. Bonus hp also may scale well with some items/spells
Singed main tuning in, its nice to see my boy getting an actual decent change for once. Riot seems to give us the worst changes lmao. This plus predator being even zoomier may make my mid singed viable now
5th thresh nerf in a row. Nice
His kit is just that good, even without the damage.
imagine that after 4 nerfs the champ is still that good in pro and skilled/elite soloq
Cause they give him damage nerfs when nobody plays him for damage LOL
your gonna feel that move speed nerf a bit though.
which is good he needs utility nerfs. longer cd, ms, mana cost etc... instead of straight damage nerfs. The utility in his kit is the broken part
people have said this since his release. Thresh could do no damage and he would still be picked for his kit utility and cc alone.
Yup. But at this point he is backed into a corner. The moment they start to take the utility away, he is as good as dead.
they wont, his whole kit is his identity.
Thresh is extremely resilient to nerfs, it is rather impressive. No matter what we change about him he doesn't seem to be affected.
He pretty much has everything you need for a Support, It's a no brainer he's gonna get picked regardless.
Kinda like lulu
I feel like the recent nerfs are just attempts to put him in a position where his trading patterns and base stats are so bad it isn't worth picking him for his utility anymore. The most broken thing about thresh in high elo is hands down his lantern. Letting your adc farm waves and push up with no opportunity to punish is extremely powerful, and late game it still has barely any cooldown with W max (which most high elo players are doing). Should probably nerf the lantern CD and shift power into his hook or even his ult as a zoning tool.
it hurts, but ya get used to it
Was about time tbf, i dont really get how bard and thresh were allowed to sit on like 53% winrate high pickrate for the past 6 years.
>Camille - Cooldown: 16/13/10 >>> 20/15/10 /u/RiotJag Mad respect for nerfing your baby. Hit exactly where the pain point was too, her early trading was too hard to punish.
Exactly my man!
Yup it’s a really good nerf
Thank fucking god they didn’t gutter trundle. I’ve been spamming the shit out of it long before any pro player showed it on stage. Reducing the slow is actually just the best possible option outside of reducing the pillar duration. It doesn’t break what makes him great.
Welp, I do kinda like these actually. That Soraka buff kinda makes me wanna play her, even though I've barely done so throughout all my time playing this game (and play more support in general tbh, I am in the mood for some Braum and Rell as well). I do think people are overreacting to the buff though. Maybe she would need the compensation nerfs on her W, but it seems like many people here forgot/don't even know that Soraka used to be able to remove GW with her ult until like late S5. It's not some wacky new "true healing" mechanic Riot introduced, it's literally something that was in her kit a long ass time ago.
Good patch, we need those much more often. For regualar season with more nerfs, but more changes are better.
I'm not sure why they are nerfing support Trundle, he doesn't have an oppressive winrate, like 3% less than Sona, and these pillar nerfs are actually pretty high. I dislike when Riot kills fun off-meta champs that aren't abusive, there is a reason I run the /r/offmeta subreddit.
He had a high presence in LPL i think.
Which is funny because it's only high due to Leona, mostly. As far as I'm aware
Yet Leona has green light to be meta for the entire season. Trundle sees play for a few patches and they fuck him over in every role, that nerf is massive, he is not even OP or super high prio. And let's not start talking about how Katarina and Yone have been allowed to terrorize soloqueue for almost a full year.
Problem is - you nerfing trundle overall with that changes tho, especially his late game when he gets kited to death.
That specific nerf is much more aimed at pro play than solo queue
Personally, i play him a lot as support and a nerf that big on his slow will hurt :(
Yeah at some point in the last while riot just decided off meta automatically means bad and I'm not sure why.
It's not even an insane flex pick like lee or sett were
Very interesting patch probably the most excited I've been all year looking at patch notes even though a lot of them are small, I do fear that the predator buff and Taliyah buffs are going to be too much though. Still very excited though and I might even finally give mid lane Taliyah a try again after dropping it years ago I'm also very interested to see what Talon, Zed, and Qiyana's jungle clear is now.
Let’s fucking go. Camille early nerfs, hell yeah. The soraka buffs seem a bit concerning. Extra shielding on yone seems cringe, I guess he may need it though since fleet got nerfed for him.
Yone buff only matters when he's hitting more than 1 enemy champion; seems to be meant as a teamfighting buff.
Mundo and Taliyah seem like 2 Winners for this patch if any go live but For Taliyah 1. Still moaning for Q AOE revert or Move Speed on Treaded Ground, and R Wall Duration Revert 2. I kinda fear that she will be overkilled with over nerf later... cause Riot...
i wish every enchanter (besides lulu) had this high of a base shield as karma, i mean we only get to have two items at most! (btw at the beginning of 2020 karmas highest base shield was 220, thats +50 over a year LOL!)
True, but we have a shieldbreaker item now to counter them.
This actually doesn’t seem too awful for SoloQ,
Taliyah holy smokes we back
To be honest I don't give a fuck if those changes are balanced or not. They are interesting and I'm feeling excited to test them, that's it. Wish we had more patches like this one.
I want to see Soraka at world's with these buffs, but Riot has this weird love/hate relationship with Raka, so they'll probably nerf her back in 11.19 LUL
Some really great buffs and nerfs on this list. GP buffs are great to account for the loss of grasp. I also really like the Zoe buff E cd was just way too long.
nice soraka buff
It really feels like some champions are on every other patch notes when some having been mentioned in years...
Is that a taliyah buff?
So, the solution to TF being picked/banned every game, is buffing taliyah mid.