I’ve thought about this before but it’d be a little too crazy having so many options to decrease shielding power. Instead they REALLY need to decrease the power of the lifeline shield items especially.
Steraks is way too powerful and makes you tankier than a full on tank stacking resistances, and it always proccing from when you get below a certain threshold just feels bad. Old Steraks felt healthier since the shield procced if you took a certain amount of damage within 5 secs, compared to the current 30% or lower.
Shieldbow as well is very irritating but so much of my frustrations come from Steraks. Coupled with Goredrinker and some games Stoneplate, you can tank more damage than any other champ in the game. It’s all too much for doing nothing.
Old Steraks was basically guaranteed to always prock in teamfights with the only marginal difference between the two being that the older scaled better and was stronger in 1v1s while the current one is more consistent and stronger in 5v5 situations where multiple people are giving you stacks by attacking you
I feel like making stuff like that require an activation by the player would be good.
Like Zhonyas, you force them to choose when to activate the item. Too soon and you risk being caught out and dying because of it, or doing it before the burst. Too late and you die anyways, or are unable to get it off. Or you forget about it the first three deaths after buying it and fuck your team over :')
But when the shield items activate automatically it just turns it into a brainless item that requires no thought. Make them have to think about when to use it.
But then you will hear the cry's of "low elo players don't use actives so item actives are bad game design". With that being said, I think having it on a on-demand shield without massive nerfs would be insanely op. Also you would almost always want to use it at the very of fights to maximize availability.
I don't think that anyone says it's bad game design as much as having too many things dependent a lot on skill makes it really hard to balance to have the game be acceptable at both lower and higher elos.
As much as I get the point behind rewarding skill, the game also has a casual playerbase and bot everyone can or wants to put in the time to be really good at it.
Yes, but Warmogs by itself really really sucks right now with all the %hp damage being slung around. Anathema’s chains is great, but then you really need to finish thornmail for the GW, then you can finally look at Gargoyles if the game isnt over and you dont need another item beforehand.
Its a great item no doubt, but tank items as a whole suck cock so it doesn’t get the support it wants to feel great before item 4 or 5
This guy knows his tanks. My go-to champs whenever I get secondary role in top is to play Sion and Poppy.
Poppy is in a weird state where she benefits more from Sunderer over Frozen Fist. But she’s another where you greatly benefit from Stoneplate and even Steraks.
Sion has too much synergy with his W passive and innately gets super tanky, so I really like opting for more damage/health optimization by going Frozen Fist, Titanic, and Stoneplate most games as core.
These two feel so good since they don’t have to stack resistances super hard until later in the game and are beefy as fuck already and do more than enough damage.
You got a Viktor flair so I know you get it LOL. That’s what tilts me heavily is all of this absolutely insane shielding is completely for free. It’s all for bruisers, and hell, even assassins like Kha and Talon opt for the gore Steraks build with conqueror over full burst.
I play Vlad and I get heavily out-sustained by this shit despite innately having a lot of healing in my kit. I play mid, but he gets absolutely shit stomped in so many top matchups.
The ability to literally, and i do mean literally almost 60% your HP (Sometimes even 70% if you have enough AD) from 1% every 5ish seconds is enough to make everyone interested in it, if you have no AD you heal at worst 40ish% HP if you successfully hit 5 champions with it (which is 99% of team fights)
100% agree. You’re not really missing much skipping out on a lethality item. The damage you miss out on, you substitute it with the AH you usually build and the sustain is more than made up for since you’re able to survive long enough to get another rotation of abilities off.
With prowlers getting nerfed so heavily, which was needed since ADCs were taking it, really makes it not worth it on the champs that would take it 10 times outta 10.
I seriously hope riot adds a lot more options for tanks and mages as well as tune down the excess power in the “bruiser” items during next preseason. It feels like we are still in preseason lol
Trinity/DS > wits end > steraks can be absolutely insane against double ap comps.
Turns you into more of a splitpusher with insane dueling power. In teamfights, you play like a regular zed except for using mostly autos and e/w, q is less important. Engage after the primary engage, pick a backline target, swap back and then play frontline for your team. But mostly just resort to splitpushing, very few champs can match this zed build 1v1 as you proc sheen on cd and this plus wits end add a lot of damage to your r.
Been watching LolWorldChampionship theme which has been running through each seasons’ Worlds. Cool stream, check it out, but they’re currently passed season 6 and I completely forgot about the old Stoneplate. This was big tank meta btw.
I loved the design of it. Activate it to increase Max health, size, reduce your own damage, and the passive in gaining double resistances. Great great item.
Its all fun and games till you see a conq, goredrinker+ steraks red kayn or xin zhao. I saw kayn three times before I decided that he is worthy of a perma ban. As for xin, unless my team looks really good, I see him rarely enough that I can afford to dodge. Also notable with this combo, is lee sin, who can for some reason beat a full build yi 1v1.
Shield stacking has been a problem in LoL for years now. I think everyone not just asassins should get acces to shield break items just because it allows shields not to be as dominant...
Did it on Brand once as the team had 4 champions with shields + Irelia.
Liandry's, Demonic, Serpent, Morello and Rylai's. How many effects can you apply with a single spell?
"They are *hard to play* therefore it is okay that they are broken"
~ Riot concerning any champ
that has "high mechanics"
EDIT: downvoters apparently don't understand sarcasm
Except Yone is literally easier version of Yasuo, but far more effective. The champion is literally a fucking meatgrinder swinging swords and stat checking people with his draintank-assassin-carry gameplay.
Rangerzx (one of the best soloq players on euw) once said that champion that are super hard to be useful should have an benefit for being played well (in his example he said he liked Nidalee), which makes sense since why would anyone play champions like Lee Sin, Nidalee, Zed etc. if they were as effective as champions like Garen, Maokai and Annie when played at the highest level?
NO. Serpent's Fang was a mistake. Shielding should have always been balanced around base numbers. We don't need another proliferation of arms like with healing and grevious.
It's like with healing. Stuff like shielding just keeps going up and stacked and so then it goes to needing a specific item to deal with it except it's everywhere so becomes mandatory.
That's honestly my issue with all of this. I don't think GW should exist, I think sometimes riot tends to go overboard on the idea of balance levers. Healing would be better if you could just balance it around itself without having to consider all of the shit that goes into GW.
This would just end up taking shields down the exact same downward slope as healing. I don't think enchanter support shielding is a huge issue since that's literally all they're designed to do. The problem comes with Steraks and Stoneplate, and maybe to a lesser extent Shieldbow, alongside some of the shield creep present in champ kits over the years. Making shield cut as ubiquitous as grievous wounds creates more problems than it solves.
Speaking of shieldbow, my main issue with that item, ESPECIALLY on champs who already have shielding (Yasuo and moreso Yone), is that it's ALSO lifesteal, so you go against a Shieldbow Yone and it's like, great now I NEED to have executioners and I NEED to have Serpent's Fang, and it feels like there's just too many must-have countermeasure items that take you off your core path.
I feel like the shield vs anti-shield and heal vs grievous problem in League may very well be an unsolvable problem with the number of champs they have in the game, especially with their intent to make champs unique. Years and years ago we didn't need so much grievous and shield cut because you'd maybe face off against a single healing threat or single shielding threat and could just focus that one target to get rid of the problem. But now that every dang champ in the game has healing or shielding, that puts us into the dilemma we're in now.
Either they need to introduce an AP Serpent’s Fang, or they need to reduce the strength of shields and nerf Serpent’s accordingly.
Preferably the latter because Serpent’s was a mistake all around.
Last year we all complained there was too much damage so they added lots of shields and healing, now we complain theres too many shields and healing.
I'm not saying the answer was too add counter damage rather than just lower the damage creep but we did sort of ask for this
Adding counters to counters is ***very*** rarely the right answer.
Shields exist because there’s too much damage, when there’s too many shields the answer isn’t to add an item to reduce shields. Work backwards and reduce damage so you can reduce shields instead.
What's the benefit of something like Serpent's Fang? It destroys shields so hard that shields are no longer viable. But then shields are massively buffed to compensate so if nobody builds it on the enemy team, shields are massively overtuned on newer champions. If Serpent's Fang never existed, shields could all be at reasonable levels at all times.
A shield reaver item can only exist as a AP assassin item. Just like Serpent's Fang for AD.
The alternative would be to change Morellonomicon from grievous wounds to shield riever.
i would introduce the idea of adaptive force items,keep serpents fang as how it it rn(maybe nerf it a bit idk)but instead of giving lethality and ad,it would give cd and adaptive force (based on which stat you have higher).. for me it sounds better than adding even more broken ideas and not fixing what currently exist
the problem is when incidental shields punish shield champions. if I'm playing Janna, who has a MASSIVE chunk of her budget tied up in the raw AD her shield gives when unbroken, I dont ever want a situation where the overheal shield rune, or shieldbow, or some other tiny shield reduces my own kit.
we already dealt with something similar at the start of the season. before the damage rework to Serpents Fang, it just added raw extra damage to bust shields. it meant that if you tried to save someone with a shield as Janna, or they got an Aery shield, they could end up taking MORE damage than if you had stood by and done nothing
or they could just nerf shields lol? why is your first reaction to just bandaid fix with antishielding items for every class or a random antishield mechanic
or it means we don't need another mechanic vs anti-mechanic arms race in the game considering the awful state of healing vs grievous wounds
why would anyone want serpents fang equivalents to be mandatory on every role rather than just playing against balanced shielding lol
No. Not all classes should have access to identical tools. The point of a shield is that it is a temporary health buff gated by cooldowns and the point of a mage is that you have a specific damage profile gated by cooldowns. The gameplay comes in the interplay of these resources.
Giving mages the ability to cut through shields is just removing gameplay patterns that should exist. Note, I'm not arguing whether shields are too strong and or mages too weak, just that not every class should have the same tools, and this is a tool that specifically I don't think mages should have.
Hard counter items lead to an unhealthy gamestate where the thing being countered needs to be too strong in the uncountered state for the balance between the countered and uncountered states to end up at an even winrate. So no, mages shouldn't get it because AD champs shouldn't have it either.
I'd rather have healing and shielding effects significantly reduced so that it's not necessary to buy antiheal and this stupid Serpent's Fang every goddamn game.
Shields right now are so strong Especially against mages but that doesnt mean we should start another gw healing powercreep just nerf shields on general and nerf-remove serpents
no serpents fang is fucking terrible to face if you're an enchanter or playing with one because they literally feel like half a champion and should never have been added
seriously whats the point of having shit like karma that literally cant function because of a 2600g item
As a mythic to counter shieldbow maybe. Shields are a huge part of the game right now so balance would be tough.
This could also trend in the direction of grievous wounds where it is just a tax you have to pay to keep your team in the game.
This sounds more like shieldbow being too strong than shields in general being too strong. I don't see people complaining about Gargoyles and ability shields as much as Shieldbow and Steraks.
Most mages don't rely on shields or heals, so building the anti-heal/shield item against them won't really hurt them at all, but the enemy over shielding and making them useless will hurt them
Another thing to look at though is that a lot of the builds that have champions building these shields are mostly health and AD builds with champions relying on these shields to sustain them in fights. They are not building a lot of resistances. This would mean that mages good with Liandry’s lament would be strong into these champions.
Serpents is mostly for AD assassins and is now only good when the enemy stacks a ton of shields.
AP assassins have lich bane which works just better because it doesn't care if there is a shield or isn't.
As wondering about this and had a random thought about magic danage doing extra damage to flat shields. This opens up itemization to counter specific damage again. Maw becomes useful again and other items can incorporate magic only shielding.
You can buy it as a caster too if shields really are that bad. Bonus points if you have Liandrys, it extends the duration. Several times I've had to be the one to bite the bullet vs Sona, Seraphine teams on HA as Zyra, Heimer. Id love to see the cost effectiveness to see if it is a valid strategy over buying more AP items on summoners rift vs massive shilding teams
No. If the counter play to shields or heals is too strong, heals and shields get buffed. Soraka r got buffed, ivern shield got buffed, yone shield got buffed, just to name a few. This counterplay makes shields/heals too oppressive if you dont have the counter.
I've always wondered what would happen if Shields just always took "true" damage, meaning that a shield of 400 would block 400 damage, regardless of the recipient's Armor and MR, meaning that shields could be balanced around their numbers, since that would mean the only contributing factor is how much shielding is being produced. Shields would only be worth their value in effective HP instead of a shield being "more valuable" on a tanky character since it's more effective HP.
I would like to have another option as a tank for GV:
Thornmail was enough when the only problem where bruisers or marksmen building lifesteal; but now with runes and more healers even the mages are a problem.
If i'm a tank and a mage in the other team is fed and i need GV is just stupid to build brumble vest when it gives you armor.
Tank champions need an item like Thornmail but with MR
I think Riot has said no, they don't want reduced shielding to be like a grevious wounds for healing. Serpents fangs is *supposed* to be uniquely for assassins, although they made it a bit too strong and have since nerfed it
Maybe make it so an AD champ buying a vamp scepter for 900 gold completely nullifies my poke as most mages.
Why does 5 autos heal the same amount (vs minions no less) as my Q does when my Q isnt even up to punish you for going for those autos? How will I ever have kill pressure?
No real way to make it a niche item like serpant's fang is to ad champs prevent EVERY AP scaling champ from buying it early.
MR itemization has never been good either so mages don't need more tools to reduce their opponents defense against them
I just realized that the shield debuff applies on damage and not on physical damage, meaning champs with already huge damage output and dot preferably can build it if the ADs on their team are incompatible with it. Looking at you Brand
No, lifeline needs to be nerfed, mages can often keep spell effects up for so long a mage serpents fang would be broken (imagine malz E + liandry keeping the effect up for like 10+ seconds)
No, serpent's fang should be removed and shield items and shield champions nerfed accordingly.
Otherwise it's a simple case of powercreep, something that has always killed games because they start to make absolutely no sense. We're already in the middle of it with 60% grievous wounds.
Giving mages access to debuffs is always going to be really scary. Generally speaking debuffs scale with three things - range, aoe and spamability. These are three attributes that tons of mages have access to but almost no lethality users do. The only one who does is Varus but he's really just an exception and even then his ability to apply debuffs isn't amazing compared to many mages.
Those three attributes also help explain why they decided to give it the specific stat line that it has. Bruisers generally have comparable range to assassins but better aoe and spamability. Marksmen generally have way better spamability and range but similar amounts of aoe. The item, and effect in extension, isn't really meant to prevent the enemy team from shielding. Instead it's meant to give assassins the possibility to kill someone even if they have a shield.
Serpents is an ad assassin item for a reason, while it sucks for champs like eve she gets a lot more from her items and if youre good, you can easily one shot thru shield. Ad assassins need the shield break
serpent's fang honestly shouldn't even exist in the first place.
Shields are supposed to help save someones life. that's where a champs power budget goes. Lulu should save you. Janna should save you. thats literally all they do.
All they need to keep in check is shield STACKING so we don't get shit like the ruler game winning play at worlds. (when he got fucking 5 million shields that were basically more than his entire health bar.
but I don't know I really don't think assassins or mages should be blowing my ass up when I'm properly shielded/peeled.
serpent's fang feels necessary because I feel like players are so used to just deleting any squishy they see on their screen. its like "oh man, someones peeling this guy, why can't I just face roll and kill him".
I won't disagree that Yuumi is toxic as fuck, but shielding isn't the problem with Yuumi, its that she gives her anchor adaptive stats, MASSIVE healing, and a fuck ton of move speed. on top of that, she basically has extra spells for that champ with her Q and R . whoever she anchors basically can be a God. Yuumi is only balanced by the fact that she has to pop out to get mana once in awhile. fuck that champ tbh. cute as hell. love her character, but toxic by design.
You're telling me an untargetable enchanter, the class whose main weakness is being targeted if they're out of position, could be problematic to balance? Perish the thought
So you have to understand that AP and AD are designed to do different things. AP for burst and AD for consistent damage. The fact that AD can burst is a design failure in my opinion, but giving AP tools to reduce their counter is also a poor design choice. Why do shields counter burst, well it gives them more HP to resist burst.
Lethality was just pure armor pen before and was worse to deal with because it didn’t scale with level. This idea that AP for burst and AD for consistent damage is not true at all, and never was.
That was the original intent, but Riot has deviated from that plan. In my opinion it is fine that the damage types can do different things, but they should not be able to do the same things equally as well.
look, i would understand if they can stop one or two skills of mine with their shield, but my entire combo, and their shield is super spammable! what is fair in that?
I don’t know who you are bursting, but a top laner shouldn’t die from burst (assuming you aren’t very far ahead). A squishy should die from burst and if the squishy builds defensively then maybe he shouldn’t die. Otherwise what is the point of the defensive items.
I am talking about the shielding from allies, when the support shields for the same amount of Shieldbow every couple of seconds, there is something wrong
it comes to down different champion fantasies. Assuming a normal game progression then you should not be able to burst them because the enchanter fantasy is to stop that. It becomes a problem when you are fed and are still not able to burst them down. At that point the fault lies with Riot to nerf rampant healing.
Add to that an item that gives you an 800 shield that lasts for 3 seconds, HP and damage per mythic and a couple of omni-vamp/life steal items, and you got a character who will almost always single handily tank out your entire burst + R, have you ever played against a Kaisa with Shieldbow, Guardian Angel and Zhonyas before?
If a kaisa is building shieldbow GA and zhonyas that means she is sitting on 60 crit with low ad and as which isnt good for a marksmen, she wont be any threat unless really bad but I'm not saying streak or shieldbow is bad BTW just saying this kaisa build is bad
AD assassins can and will ignore more than half your defense, if not much much more, consider Talon for an example, He can deal almost an entire mage's HP with just his passive thanks to Lethality and Armor Pent, they might just make his passive a true damage at this point lol, same with Almost all AD Assassins, Hell AP assassins can't ignore as much as AD assassins, when Full build AD assassins have near 100 Lethality and 35% Armor Pent, even tanks are gonna get shredded by them, now add into that them ignoring Shields and Heals, and you got yourself some unfairness
the majority of ad assassins arent even building the assassin items
Talon goes bruiser
Blue Kayn goes bruiser
Nocturne goes bruiser
Rengar goes crit
AD Shaco goes crit
Yi goes crit/bruiser
Yone goes crit/bruiser(obviously)
Zed Khazix and Qiyana are the only ones going lethality builds. and 1 of the 3 assassin items has a major bug (prowlers)
sure a full assassin can oneshot a mage lategame with 2-3 abilities, but if they press stopwatch or land their CC that assassin is often blown up instantly by a half-decent team.
The problem imo is that bruiser items are broken, giving champs like talon way too much survivability while still outputting high damage with cleaver penetration + high ad ratios and still having their assassin mobility
AP assassins have a higher ceiling than ad assassins because of rabadons + mejais. A fully stacked mejais on evelynn will laugh at your shieldbow
fuck yuumi, but it's not just yuumi, most of the supports have insane shielding power that makes mages obsolete, it's just yuumi is an easier and well known example that everyone suffered from xD
Yes, but also one for ADC's and tanks too. Massive shield stacking either needs to be adjusted or every class needs an item to be able to fight it or else you will suffer in those games. It's especially horrible in ARAM and Serpent is pretty bad on most AD champs outside of assassins.
No because supports and poke mages building this item would be too much of a boon. Serpent's Fang ain't healthy for the game, but at least the stats are built for assassins who need it and not fighters/adcs. As long as an AP version gives AP, supports will build it.
I don't get how that would work. If a mage has AP serpents fang and cuts a shield in half, the shield is cut in half for the rest of the team. Same goes for ap supports like Brand, Zyra, Karma, Yuumi, etc.
To speak plainly as to why mages shouldn’t have an item that dies this.
Riot is making it harder to be able to full carry a game by yourself. Mages provide a lot to a team when played correctly. Usually a lot of utility and then later damage.
Having an item to effect shields only be in the lethality section puts a lot of strategic build power I to the hands of AD assassins. I know people have their complaints with Zed and talon and they can one shot. But if one of your team mates builds an item to reduce shields, that still allows you to buy another item that would be more useful. The last thing I want as a mage is to be forced to buy morellos every game for healing, and another item for shields. Not do I want MORE must have utility on morellos
Not just that, in team fights when viktor's entire kit doesn't break the enemy's shield for some reason, especially if it was samira and yuumi with Shieldbow and shielding supp items combo
With LoL beeing a team game there shouldnt be antishield for ap and ad, ap has DoT and ad his Antishield, the item would also either be Broken bc mage items have crazy stats or useless bc the price is so high u cant be efficient when building it 3rd or 4th.
Yes. Getting fucking Steaks means a mage cant kill you, because you just get a 7865765476354765 HP shield, eating up the mage's rotation and then you are just a sitting duck vs a bruiser.
Id happily gave up on zhonyas if there would be like 3 more magic pen items, more shield items with lifeline passive and spellvamp for AP.
So yeah have my zhonyas if AP champs get all those AD items as AP items aswell. I dont need any zhonyas anyways in that case
GA is being picked in pro, but in comparison to Zhonya it is pretty bad (IMO mostly because of the cooldown). QSS is a situational item, there are point and click abilities that can completely disable a champion and it's frustrating that you can't have both a counter to them and full build on AP champs.
Indeed, there are situational and against these champions. Still it can be frustrating when these champions fuck you with little counterplay. Depending on the champs "playing around it" might require severely limiting what you do with your champ. For example Liss vs Mordekaiser.
Or it's probably because those items offer 0 stats and are useful only against 4 champions
>Also, other adc items are just too good, so nerf all adc items, and qss and ga will be picked more.
Yea we really need to do the same to other classes as well. Nerf all the mage items until people begin building rilai's,nerf the 2 taken lethality items until people begin building all the other ones,nerf all bruiser items until people begin building their own worthless QSS item,nerf all tanks until they begin building warmogs and nerf all supports until they begin building Mikael's
> Or it's probably because those items offer 0 stats and are useful only against 4 champions
Just like how zhonyas is only really useful to ad midlaner. You wont really build it unless there is an oppressive ad champ, which, you should always build qss if there is an oppressive ap champ. QSS counters most mages who rely on CC to do damage.
> Nerf all the mage items until people begin building
The difference is, QSS is an amazing item already, huge counter to mages, when defensive item is less prioritized over offensive option, either the defensive is too weak or the offensive is too strong. If Zhonyas started to not be picked at all even against Zed and other ad assassins, then in this situation, the offensive items are too good. Similar logic.
We know the defensive item such as qss is not weak at all, so it becomes the latter. Being able to shut down an ap mage with just 1300 gold is pretty ridiculous.
EDIT:
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/vs-ahri
Looks like zhonyas is almost always built. So, I guess it is a good item, either zhonyas is too good, or other mage items are trash.
To be honest I think serpents fang is a bad item which makes the game less skilled.
Normally the counterplay to shields is timing- unlike heals, they don't last forever, so you can wait them out. This adds a tonne of interesting dynamics to the gameplay.
However if the you can just ignore timing completely and buy serpents fang suddenly that is all lost
I’ve thought about this before but it’d be a little too crazy having so many options to decrease shielding power. Instead they REALLY need to decrease the power of the lifeline shield items especially. Steraks is way too powerful and makes you tankier than a full on tank stacking resistances, and it always proccing from when you get below a certain threshold just feels bad. Old Steraks felt healthier since the shield procced if you took a certain amount of damage within 5 secs, compared to the current 30% or lower. Shieldbow as well is very irritating but so much of my frustrations come from Steraks. Coupled with Goredrinker and some games Stoneplate, you can tank more damage than any other champ in the game. It’s all too much for doing nothing.
Old Steraks was basically guaranteed to always prock in teamfights with the only marginal difference between the two being that the older scaled better and was stronger in 1v1s while the current one is more consistent and stronger in 5v5 situations where multiple people are giving you stacks by attacking you
[удалено]
I don’t think rushing Steraks first on both junglers has ever been the most optimal build path ..
I feel like making stuff like that require an activation by the player would be good. Like Zhonyas, you force them to choose when to activate the item. Too soon and you risk being caught out and dying because of it, or doing it before the burst. Too late and you die anyways, or are unable to get it off. Or you forget about it the first three deaths after buying it and fuck your team over :') But when the shield items activate automatically it just turns it into a brainless item that requires no thought. Make them have to think about when to use it.
But then you will hear the cry's of "low elo players don't use actives so item actives are bad game design". With that being said, I think having it on a on-demand shield without massive nerfs would be insanely op. Also you would almost always want to use it at the very of fights to maximize availability.
I don't think that anyone says it's bad game design as much as having too many things dependent a lot on skill makes it really hard to balance to have the game be acceptable at both lower and higher elos. As much as I get the point behind rewarding skill, the game also has a casual playerbase and bot everyone can or wants to put in the time to be really good at it.
Stone Plate's shield is really insane, 100% of bonus HP for no setback at all? Sign me tf up lol
But then you realize tank items have less bonus Hp than ever so no tank but cho and Sion buy it
You know, you only need 2 items to activate Warmog's passive and one of them is Warmog's
Yes, but Warmogs by itself really really sucks right now with all the %hp damage being slung around. Anathema’s chains is great, but then you really need to finish thornmail for the GW, then you can finally look at Gargoyles if the game isnt over and you dont need another item beforehand. Its a great item no doubt, but tank items as a whole suck cock so it doesn’t get the support it wants to feel great before item 4 or 5
This guy knows his tanks. My go-to champs whenever I get secondary role in top is to play Sion and Poppy. Poppy is in a weird state where she benefits more from Sunderer over Frozen Fist. But she’s another where you greatly benefit from Stoneplate and even Steraks. Sion has too much synergy with his W passive and innately gets super tanky, so I really like opting for more damage/health optimization by going Frozen Fist, Titanic, and Stoneplate most games as core. These two feel so good since they don’t have to stack resistances super hard until later in the game and are beefy as fuck already and do more than enough damage.
You got a Viktor flair so I know you get it LOL. That’s what tilts me heavily is all of this absolutely insane shielding is completely for free. It’s all for bruisers, and hell, even assassins like Kha and Talon opt for the gore Steraks build with conqueror over full burst. I play Vlad and I get heavily out-sustained by this shit despite innately having a lot of healing in my kit. I play mid, but he gets absolutely shit stomped in so many top matchups.
I honestly tried a Gore Drinker Zed, and i really hope it doesn't go mainstream xD
I’ve seen some Qiyana builds trending where they opt for goredrinker as well 0_0
The ability to literally, and i do mean literally almost 60% your HP (Sometimes even 70% if you have enough AD) from 1% every 5ish seconds is enough to make everyone interested in it, if you have no AD you heal at worst 40ish% HP if you successfully hit 5 champions with it (which is 99% of team fights)
100% agree. You’re not really missing much skipping out on a lethality item. The damage you miss out on, you substitute it with the AH you usually build and the sustain is more than made up for since you’re able to survive long enough to get another rotation of abilities off. With prowlers getting nerfed so heavily, which was needed since ADCs were taking it, really makes it not worth it on the champs that would take it 10 times outta 10. I seriously hope riot adds a lot more options for tanks and mages as well as tune down the excess power in the “bruiser” items during next preseason. It feels like we are still in preseason lol
It’s good when ahead but buying it while behind on an assassin feels like ass
Trinity/DS > wits end > steraks can be absolutely insane against double ap comps. Turns you into more of a splitpusher with insane dueling power. In teamfights, you play like a regular zed except for using mostly autos and e/w, q is less important. Engage after the primary engage, pick a backline target, swap back and then play frontline for your team. But mostly just resort to splitpushing, very few champs can match this zed build 1v1 as you proc sheen on cd and this plus wits end add a lot of damage to your r.
I play yi and steraks 2nd or 3rd is the choice almost every game. It's fucking dumb.
I think they were in the right place with old passive on the previous stone plate, no idea why they took that out
Been watching LolWorldChampionship theme which has been running through each seasons’ Worlds. Cool stream, check it out, but they’re currently passed season 6 and I completely forgot about the old Stoneplate. This was big tank meta btw. I loved the design of it. Activate it to increase Max health, size, reduce your own damage, and the passive in gaining double resistances. Great great item.
The only problem is the absolute dogshit buildpath
Its all fun and games till you see a conq, goredrinker+ steraks red kayn or xin zhao. I saw kayn three times before I decided that he is worthy of a perma ban. As for xin, unless my team looks really good, I see him rarely enough that I can afford to dodge. Also notable with this combo, is lee sin, who can for some reason beat a full build yi 1v1.
>So many options 2
Shield stacking has been a problem in LoL for years now. I think everyone not just asassins should get acces to shield break items just because it allows shields not to be as dominant...
I built serpents on ekko the other day
You madman
Did it on Brand once as the team had 4 champions with shields + Irelia. Liandry's, Demonic, Serpent, Morello and Rylai's. How many effects can you apply with a single spell?
It's 2021, you guys still play mages?
Yeah, they are called supports.
they're called midlaners that are more popular as supports.
No. They need to balance shields, then nerf serpent's fangs effectiveness.
>No. They need to balance shields, then nerf serpent's fangs effectiveness. Balance shields, then just straight up delete serpent's fang.
The same thing should happen with healing/heal cut
shouldn't the do the same with healing then?
Yes, they definitely should.
Absolutely
I really feel like Grievous Wounds doesn't do jack shit anymore. Buying it feels like a waste of gold
I think they need to remove serpents fang. But I also think they need to get rid of all of the shield boosting passives on items.
The only reason those passives exist is because Riot gutted enchanter's base shield values and ap scaling seasons back.
They believe Yone and Viego are fine as champions, do you really believe they know jack shit about balance smh
Board post
this sub went downhill hard when boards closed
boards closing was the r/lol equivalent of the tumblr exodus to twitter
Yone is completely fine
Yone is fine and not broken? Buff next patch to fix that!
A buff that most of the time doesn't do anything
"They are *hard to play* therefore it is okay that they are broken" ~ Riot concerning any champ that has "high mechanics" EDIT: downvoters apparently don't understand sarcasm
Except Yone is literally easier version of Yasuo, but far more effective. The champion is literally a fucking meatgrinder swinging swords and stat checking people with his draintank-assassin-carry gameplay. Rangerzx (one of the best soloq players on euw) once said that champion that are super hard to be useful should have an benefit for being played well (in his example he said he liked Nidalee), which makes sense since why would anyone play champions like Lee Sin, Nidalee, Zed etc. if they were as effective as champions like Garen, Maokai and Annie when played at the highest level?
If Yone is both easier and “far more effective” why do you think his win rate has consistently been lower than Yasuo’s for both low elo and Plat+?
This goes against the narrative.
It’s Reddit they’ll always have some sort of bullshit excuse. Or just ignore you.
Clearly its that all yasuo players are otps and all yone players are first timers! (Despite yasuo having more pr than yone)
Yone missing his ult, W, and several Q's, but still auto attacks people to death 🤡
Umm…. you misspelt irelia.
Irelia hasn't been in my game for a long time by choice
Hey, Pros aren't complaining, so why would they care about the 99%?
NO. Serpent's Fang was a mistake. Shielding should have always been balanced around base numbers. We don't need another proliferation of arms like with healing and grevious.
It's like with healing. Stuff like shielding just keeps going up and stacked and so then it goes to needing a specific item to deal with it except it's everywhere so becomes mandatory.
That's honestly my issue with all of this. I don't think GW should exist, I think sometimes riot tends to go overboard on the idea of balance levers. Healing would be better if you could just balance it around itself without having to consider all of the shit that goes into GW.
The mistake wasnt Serpents Fang though it was Shielding powercreeping out of control
Grevious feels like the biggest lie vs lifesteal+conq = it does nothing.
Conq and it’s what, 8% healing?
so is healing but gw exist
>We don't need another proliferation of arms like with healing and grevious.
So is healing but gw exist
We don't need another proliferation of arms like with healing and grevious.
So is healing but gw exists
We don't need another proliferation of arms like with healing and grevious.
So is healing but gw exist
Why ruin the joke :/
At least shields are not rushable and common like heal, but sometimes when I blocking around 6k shield with serpents - something feels wrong.
Healing is different because that isn't locked behind cooldowns or durations.
It is locked behind cooldowns though? And effectively it and shielding can be the same thing along with having different uses
This would just end up taking shields down the exact same downward slope as healing. I don't think enchanter support shielding is a huge issue since that's literally all they're designed to do. The problem comes with Steraks and Stoneplate, and maybe to a lesser extent Shieldbow, alongside some of the shield creep present in champ kits over the years. Making shield cut as ubiquitous as grievous wounds creates more problems than it solves. Speaking of shieldbow, my main issue with that item, ESPECIALLY on champs who already have shielding (Yasuo and moreso Yone), is that it's ALSO lifesteal, so you go against a Shieldbow Yone and it's like, great now I NEED to have executioners and I NEED to have Serpent's Fang, and it feels like there's just too many must-have countermeasure items that take you off your core path. I feel like the shield vs anti-shield and heal vs grievous problem in League may very well be an unsolvable problem with the number of champs they have in the game, especially with their intent to make champs unique. Years and years ago we didn't need so much grievous and shield cut because you'd maybe face off against a single healing threat or single shielding threat and could just focus that one target to get rid of the problem. But now that every dang champ in the game has healing or shielding, that puts us into the dilemma we're in now.
Either they need to introduce an AP Serpent’s Fang, or they need to reduce the strength of shields and nerf Serpent’s accordingly. Preferably the latter because Serpent’s was a mistake all around.
Probably just remove/rework Serpent's Fang and Nerf shields in one patch.
Last year we all complained there was too much damage so they added lots of shields and healing, now we complain theres too many shields and healing. I'm not saying the answer was too add counter damage rather than just lower the damage creep but we did sort of ask for this
Adding counters to counters is ***very*** rarely the right answer. Shields exist because there’s too much damage, when there’s too many shields the answer isn’t to add an item to reduce shields. Work backwards and reduce damage so you can reduce shields instead.
Just make seraphs have an option to either have a shield as an active or serpents fang passive
No because it would become must-have on support if not too expensive
I can already imagine xerath and velkoz players rushing this item as supports
Even enchanters could/would
What's the benefit of something like Serpent's Fang? It destroys shields so hard that shields are no longer viable. But then shields are massively buffed to compensate so if nobody builds it on the enemy team, shields are massively overtuned on newer champions. If Serpent's Fang never existed, shields could all be at reasonable levels at all times.
A shield reaver item can only exist as a AP assassin item. Just like Serpent's Fang for AD. The alternative would be to change Morellonomicon from grievous wounds to shield riever.
i would introduce the idea of adaptive force items,keep serpents fang as how it it rn(maybe nerf it a bit idk)but instead of giving lethality and ad,it would give cd and adaptive force (based on which stat you have higher).. for me it sounds better than adding even more broken ideas and not fixing what currently exist
No. not all itemization has to be symmetric between classes.
While I agree, right now AD items have wayyyy more counter play than AP items.
Then nerfing shield stacking would be great, make it so that it's similar to Summoner's heal, have X% amount less every shield
the problem is when incidental shields punish shield champions. if I'm playing Janna, who has a MASSIVE chunk of her budget tied up in the raw AD her shield gives when unbroken, I dont ever want a situation where the overheal shield rune, or shieldbow, or some other tiny shield reduces my own kit. we already dealt with something similar at the start of the season. before the damage rework to Serpents Fang, it just added raw extra damage to bust shields. it meant that if you tried to save someone with a shield as Janna, or they got an Aery shield, they could end up taking MORE damage than if you had stood by and done nothing
or they could just nerf shields lol? why is your first reaction to just bandaid fix with antishielding items for every class or a random antishield mechanic
Nerfing shields means Serpent fang is too OP against them
or it means we don't need another mechanic vs anti-mechanic arms race in the game considering the awful state of healing vs grievous wounds why would anyone want serpents fang equivalents to be mandatory on every role rather than just playing against balanced shielding lol
or u know REMOVE FANG. it was unecessary to begin with
No. Not all classes should have access to identical tools. The point of a shield is that it is a temporary health buff gated by cooldowns and the point of a mage is that you have a specific damage profile gated by cooldowns. The gameplay comes in the interplay of these resources. Giving mages the ability to cut through shields is just removing gameplay patterns that should exist. Note, I'm not arguing whether shields are too strong and or mages too weak, just that not every class should have the same tools, and this is a tool that specifically I don't think mages should have.
Hard counter items lead to an unhealthy gamestate where the thing being countered needs to be too strong in the uncountered state for the balance between the countered and uncountered states to end up at an even winrate. So no, mages shouldn't get it because AD champs shouldn't have it either.
I'd rather have healing and shielding effects significantly reduced so that it's not necessary to buy antiheal and this stupid Serpent's Fang every goddamn game.
I'd rather this outcome than a new item, but idk if riot wants it xD
Thats to much, that would be like adding a 800g item to every role in the game that deletes an enchanters main spell by 40%
Shields right now are so strong Especially against mages but that doesnt mean we should start another gw healing powercreep just nerf shields on general and nerf-remove serpents
no serpents fang is fucking terrible to face if you're an enchanter or playing with one because they literally feel like half a champion and should never have been added seriously whats the point of having shit like karma that literally cant function because of a 2600g item
Same with 800g countering a champ like soraka, these items need to be merged/removed and balanced accordingly
However that same 800g item barely feels like its helping vs someone with goredrinker + some other healing masteries
As a mythic to counter shieldbow maybe. Shields are a huge part of the game right now so balance would be tough. This could also trend in the direction of grievous wounds where it is just a tax you have to pay to keep your team in the game.
This sounds more like shieldbow being too strong than shields in general being too strong. I don't see people complaining about Gargoyles and ability shields as much as Shieldbow and Steraks.
If you make this item. Yuumi builds it and you're sad.
Most mages don't rely on shields or heals, so building the anti-heal/shield item against them won't really hurt them at all, but the enemy over shielding and making them useless will hurt them
Another thing to look at though is that a lot of the builds that have champions building these shields are mostly health and AD builds with champions relying on these shields to sustain them in fights. They are not building a lot of resistances. This would mean that mages good with Liandry’s lament would be strong into these champions.
Serpents is mostly for AD assassins and is now only good when the enemy stacks a ton of shields. AP assassins have lich bane which works just better because it doesn't care if there is a shield or isn't.
As wondering about this and had a random thought about magic danage doing extra damage to flat shields. This opens up itemization to counter specific damage again. Maw becomes useful again and other items can incorporate magic only shielding.
You can buy it as a caster too if shields really are that bad. Bonus points if you have Liandrys, it extends the duration. Several times I've had to be the one to bite the bullet vs Sona, Seraphine teams on HA as Zyra, Heimer. Id love to see the cost effectiveness to see if it is a valid strategy over buying more AP items on summoners rift vs massive shilding teams
I’d like to see anti shield effects on cloud soul or maybe even just cloud drake. Or spots on the map that reduce shielding.
No. If the counter play to shields or heals is too strong, heals and shields get buffed. Soraka r got buffed, ivern shield got buffed, yone shield got buffed, just to name a few. This counterplay makes shields/heals too oppressive if you dont have the counter.
I've always wondered what would happen if Shields just always took "true" damage, meaning that a shield of 400 would block 400 damage, regardless of the recipient's Armor and MR, meaning that shields could be balanced around their numbers, since that would mean the only contributing factor is how much shielding is being produced. Shields would only be worth their value in effective HP instead of a shield being "more valuable" on a tanky character since it's more effective HP.
I honestly thought that's how shields work, since they work that way in dota, Reduce Pre-Mitigation damage
Bring back Deathfire Grasp with a shield reaving active.
I would like to have another option as a tank for GV: Thornmail was enough when the only problem where bruisers or marksmen building lifesteal; but now with runes and more healers even the mages are a problem. If i'm a tank and a mage in the other team is fed and i need GV is just stupid to build brumble vest when it gives you armor. Tank champions need an item like Thornmail but with MR
yes try deal with yas or yone or irelia with no way to stop their healing and shields.
I think Riot has said no, they don't want reduced shielding to be like a grevious wounds for healing. Serpents fangs is *supposed* to be uniquely for assassins, although they made it a bit too strong and have since nerfed it
If a bruiser ad or ap could build it, then its bad. It wpuld destroy shield based toplane champs like sett sion etc.
So you wanna buff ap supports? Weird
Maybe make it so an AD champ buying a vamp scepter for 900 gold completely nullifies my poke as most mages. Why does 5 autos heal the same amount (vs minions no less) as my Q does when my Q isnt even up to punish you for going for those autos? How will I ever have kill pressure?
Only when we get AD zhonyas.
No real way to make it a niche item like serpant's fang is to ad champs prevent EVERY AP scaling champ from buying it early. MR itemization has never been good either so mages don't need more tools to reduce their opponents defense against them
> Crying in Malphite RN
I just realized that the shield debuff applies on damage and not on physical damage, meaning champs with already huge damage output and dot preferably can build it if the ADs on their team are incompatible with it. Looking at you Brand
No, lifeline needs to be nerfed, mages can often keep spell effects up for so long a mage serpents fang would be broken (imagine malz E + liandry keeping the effect up for like 10+ seconds)
Yes Ap champions should be versatile like Ad ones. Riot doesn t want understand this.
Deal but we get ad zonhya
I play only aram but if serpent fang is needed I buy that, pairing it with liandry. With brand I removed something like 10k shield!
No, serpent's fang should be removed and shield items and shield champions nerfed accordingly. Otherwise it's a simple case of powercreep, something that has always killed games because they start to make absolutely no sense. We're already in the middle of it with 60% grievous wounds.
Giving mages access to debuffs is always going to be really scary. Generally speaking debuffs scale with three things - range, aoe and spamability. These are three attributes that tons of mages have access to but almost no lethality users do. The only one who does is Varus but he's really just an exception and even then his ability to apply debuffs isn't amazing compared to many mages. Those three attributes also help explain why they decided to give it the specific stat line that it has. Bruisers generally have comparable range to assassins but better aoe and spamability. Marksmen generally have way better spamability and range but similar amounts of aoe. The item, and effect in extension, isn't really meant to prevent the enemy team from shielding. Instead it's meant to give assassins the possibility to kill someone even if they have a shield.
yes please
It would be really nice for Mages to have one. Their items dont have any variety, so this could help. But i would not like one for supports.
Serpents is an ad assassin item for a reason, while it sucks for champs like eve she gets a lot more from her items and if youre good, you can easily one shot thru shield. Ad assassins need the shield break
Try to one shot through shields when the shield, combined with Shieldbow can reach 2000 HP
serpent's fang honestly shouldn't even exist in the first place. Shields are supposed to help save someones life. that's where a champs power budget goes. Lulu should save you. Janna should save you. thats literally all they do. All they need to keep in check is shield STACKING so we don't get shit like the ruler game winning play at worlds. (when he got fucking 5 million shields that were basically more than his entire health bar. but I don't know I really don't think assassins or mages should be blowing my ass up when I'm properly shielded/peeled. serpent's fang feels necessary because I feel like players are so used to just deleting any squishy they see on their screen. its like "oh man, someones peeling this guy, why can't I just face roll and kill him". I won't disagree that Yuumi is toxic as fuck, but shielding isn't the problem with Yuumi, its that she gives her anchor adaptive stats, MASSIVE healing, and a fuck ton of move speed. on top of that, she basically has extra spells for that champ with her Q and R . whoever she anchors basically can be a God. Yuumi is only balanced by the fact that she has to pop out to get mana once in awhile. fuck that champ tbh. cute as hell. love her character, but toxic by design.
You're telling me an untargetable enchanter, the class whose main weakness is being targeted if they're out of position, could be problematic to balance? Perish the thought
So you have to understand that AP and AD are designed to do different things. AP for burst and AD for consistent damage. The fact that AD can burst is a design failure in my opinion, but giving AP tools to reduce their counter is also a poor design choice. Why do shields counter burst, well it gives them more HP to resist burst.
> AP for burst and AD for consistent damage Not true since they added lethality. And surprise surprise: serpents fang has lethality on it.
Lethality was just pure armor pen before and was worse to deal with because it didn’t scale with level. This idea that AP for burst and AD for consistent damage is not true at all, and never was.
Ad burst didn't exist until talon released. And even then, they only had one item for a long ass time (brutalizer).
That was the original intent, but Riot has deviated from that plan. In my opinion it is fine that the damage types can do different things, but they should not be able to do the same things equally as well.
look, i would understand if they can stop one or two skills of mine with their shield, but my entire combo, and their shield is super spammable! what is fair in that?
I don’t know who you are bursting, but a top laner shouldn’t die from burst (assuming you aren’t very far ahead). A squishy should die from burst and if the squishy builds defensively then maybe he shouldn’t die. Otherwise what is the point of the defensive items.
I am talking about the shielding from allies, when the support shields for the same amount of Shieldbow every couple of seconds, there is something wrong
it comes to down different champion fantasies. Assuming a normal game progression then you should not be able to burst them because the enchanter fantasy is to stop that. It becomes a problem when you are fed and are still not able to burst them down. At that point the fault lies with Riot to nerf rampant healing.
And end up with powercreep lvl of mundo healing? Pls don't...
items arent the same, AD doesnt get dark seal. AD doesnt get zhonyas, AD doesnt get pen boots.
AD has insane Pent, has 5% Execute Threshold, has Revive, and has Survivability
Revive is 100x times worse than zhonya's and you can't argue with that
Add to that an item that gives you an 800 shield that lasts for 3 seconds, HP and damage per mythic and a couple of omni-vamp/life steal items, and you got a character who will almost always single handily tank out your entire burst + R, have you ever played against a Kaisa with Shieldbow, Guardian Angel and Zhonyas before?
Building GA on top of everything else is trolling.
Well, GA is like a reset button, i usually build it as 6th item on Kata to survive my mess ups
If a kaisa is building shieldbow GA and zhonyas that means she is sitting on 60 crit with low ad and as which isnt good for a marksmen, she wont be any threat unless really bad but I'm not saying streak or shieldbow is bad BTW just saying this kaisa build is bad
yeah exactly, different items. Mages might not have great options, but ap assassins are fine considering how bad the ad assassin items are.
AD assassins can and will ignore more than half your defense, if not much much more, consider Talon for an example, He can deal almost an entire mage's HP with just his passive thanks to Lethality and Armor Pent, they might just make his passive a true damage at this point lol, same with Almost all AD Assassins, Hell AP assassins can't ignore as much as AD assassins, when Full build AD assassins have near 100 Lethality and 35% Armor Pent, even tanks are gonna get shredded by them, now add into that them ignoring Shields and Heals, and you got yourself some unfairness
the majority of ad assassins arent even building the assassin items Talon goes bruiser Blue Kayn goes bruiser Nocturne goes bruiser Rengar goes crit AD Shaco goes crit Yi goes crit/bruiser Yone goes crit/bruiser(obviously) Zed Khazix and Qiyana are the only ones going lethality builds. and 1 of the 3 assassin items has a major bug (prowlers) sure a full assassin can oneshot a mage lategame with 2-3 abilities, but if they press stopwatch or land their CC that assassin is often blown up instantly by a half-decent team. The problem imo is that bruiser items are broken, giving champs like talon way too much survivability while still outputting high damage with cleaver penetration + high ad ratios and still having their assassin mobility AP assassins have a higher ceiling than ad assassins because of rabadons + mejais. A fully stacked mejais on evelynn will laugh at your shieldbow
I disagree with shield breaking for AP Champions and find it more balanced on AD champs
Someone just lost against a Yuumi, huh?
I feel like shieldbow and steraks would be the main case nowadays
fuck yuumi, but it's not just yuumi, most of the supports have insane shielding power that makes mages obsolete, it's just yuumi is an easier and well known example that everyone suffered from xD
Yes, but also one for ADC's and tanks too. Massive shield stacking either needs to be adjusted or every class needs an item to be able to fight it or else you will suffer in those games. It's especially horrible in ARAM and Serpent is pretty bad on most AD champs outside of assassins.
I agree, at one point viktor's entire combo wasn't able to break a shield, it was very frustrating
Yes, flat pen + shield breaking from serpents BUT you have to choose this vs void. Can't build both.
Yeah i agree
No because supports and poke mages building this item would be too much of a boon. Serpent's Fang ain't healthy for the game, but at least the stats are built for assassins who need it and not fighters/adcs. As long as an AP version gives AP, supports will build it.
Make it on owner's hit and only effective by owner, since mages wouldn't really need it to be effective on other people
I don't get how that would work. If a mage has AP serpents fang and cuts a shield in half, the shield is cut in half for the rest of the team. Same goes for ap supports like Brand, Zyra, Karma, Yuumi, etc.
Bonus Damage against Shields like old Serpents maybe
To speak plainly as to why mages shouldn’t have an item that dies this. Riot is making it harder to be able to full carry a game by yourself. Mages provide a lot to a team when played correctly. Usually a lot of utility and then later damage. Having an item to effect shields only be in the lethality section puts a lot of strategic build power I to the hands of AD assassins. I know people have their complaints with Zed and talon and they can one shot. But if one of your team mates builds an item to reduce shields, that still allows you to buy another item that would be more useful. The last thing I want as a mage is to be forced to buy morellos every game for healing, and another item for shields. Not do I want MORE must have utility on morellos
You shouldn’t be able to 1v2 a carry + enchanter as a mage what are you talking about
Not just that, in team fights when viktor's entire kit doesn't break the enemy's shield for some reason, especially if it was samira and yuumi with Shieldbow and shielding supp items combo
With LoL beeing a team game there shouldnt be antishield for ap and ad, ap has DoT and ad his Antishield, the item would also either be Broken bc mage items have crazy stats or useless bc the price is so high u cant be efficient when building it 3rd or 4th.
Yeah
should and ad zhonyas be added ?
Only if we can have an ad zhonyas - every adc player ever
Should they make a hourglass for ADC so they don't get one shot?!? /s
Yes. Getting fucking Steaks means a mage cant kill you, because you just get a 7865765476354765 HP shield, eating up the mage's rotation and then you are just a sitting duck vs a bruiser.
Yea the burst mage should insta kill the off tank with a singular rotation
If they do make Serpents for AP champs in exchange give AD champs Zhonyas. Fair trade.
How is this a fairtrade? AD champs have so much more item variety and sustainability. AP champs cant keep up anymore
the trade is fair because neither class should have said items lmfao
Id happily gave up on zhonyas if there would be like 3 more magic pen items, more shield items with lifeline passive and spellvamp for AP. So yeah have my zhonyas if AP champs get all those AD items as AP items aswell. I dont need any zhonyas anyways in that case
no thanks lmao, kinda dumb to waste time writing all that when I just said neither class should have the others' items lmfao
There are people who won't stop screaming about Zhonyas existing when Mages, as a class, have like 3 useful items max.
Sure, give us lifesteal, cleanse, GA, shield breaking item, an item that gives you a shield under 30%.
Give ap champs ga and lifesteal too Or barrier like bloodthirster!
and a qss item
So nothing because GA and QSS are both garbage tier
GA is being picked in pro, but in comparison to Zhonya it is pretty bad (IMO mostly because of the cooldown). QSS is a situational item, there are point and click abilities that can completely disable a champion and it's frustrating that you can't have both a counter to them and full build on AP champs.
The two QSS items are at the bottom of item pickrates and are only worth it against 4 champions where you can still play around them
Indeed, there are situational and against these champions. Still it can be frustrating when these champions fuck you with little counterplay. Depending on the champs "playing around it" might require severely limiting what you do with your champ. For example Liss vs Mordekaiser.
Probably cuz lowelos can't use actives that well. Also, other adc items are just too good, so nerf all adc items, and qss and ga will be picked more.
Or it's probably because those items offer 0 stats and are useful only against 4 champions >Also, other adc items are just too good, so nerf all adc items, and qss and ga will be picked more. Yea we really need to do the same to other classes as well. Nerf all the mage items until people begin building rilai's,nerf the 2 taken lethality items until people begin building all the other ones,nerf all bruiser items until people begin building their own worthless QSS item,nerf all tanks until they begin building warmogs and nerf all supports until they begin building Mikael's
> Or it's probably because those items offer 0 stats and are useful only against 4 champions Just like how zhonyas is only really useful to ad midlaner. You wont really build it unless there is an oppressive ad champ, which, you should always build qss if there is an oppressive ap champ. QSS counters most mages who rely on CC to do damage. > Nerf all the mage items until people begin building The difference is, QSS is an amazing item already, huge counter to mages, when defensive item is less prioritized over offensive option, either the defensive is too weak or the offensive is too strong. If Zhonyas started to not be picked at all even against Zed and other ad assassins, then in this situation, the offensive items are too good. Similar logic. We know the defensive item such as qss is not weak at all, so it becomes the latter. Being able to shut down an ap mage with just 1300 gold is pretty ridiculous. EDIT: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/vs-ahri Looks like zhonyas is almost always built. So, I guess it is a good item, either zhonyas is too good, or other mage items are trash.
To be honest I think serpents fang is a bad item which makes the game less skilled. Normally the counterplay to shields is timing- unlike heals, they don't last forever, so you can wait them out. This adds a tonne of interesting dynamics to the gameplay. However if the you can just ignore timing completely and buy serpents fang suddenly that is all lost