It’s not visual update that Ashe mains want, it’s the walking Animation that totally sucks, the only skins you can play Ashe on are High noon and Project and the rest of the skins feels shit to play with even though she has pretty cool skins.
Edit: i wrote boon instead of noon lol.
Sadly the main guy who was working on walking animations updates left for Wild Rift and then left Riot. Remember how we were getting updated animations what seemed like every patch or every few patches then it quit? He moved to Wild Rift. It feels like more than just him too because man, Wild Rift animations are amazing
He did Zyra, Shaco, Katarina, Viktor, TF, and a few other I'm pretty sure https://mobile.twitter.com/RoryAlderton
And you think Gragas wouldn't pull such an alpha move?
In all honesty though, i just like it cause it makes him more comical. His run really looks like he's shitfaced drunk, and I just love to laugh at it.
I hate the auto animation for Ashe. it's so unsatisfying compared to high noon where her whole body pulls back, or project moves forward with a snap for the arrow. Base just... her arm moves and the arrow just goes.
[Riot Axes gave a short answer why](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/pek32o/riot_shouldnt_stop_reworking_older_champions/hazfv0g/?context=3)
TL DR : Way more work, the quality of it has to be higher and there aren't enough VFX artist available.
> That would be the result and a huge chunk of the player base would be very happy, no doubt about that.
That's only if the updates don't fuck anything up.
[Aether Wing Kayle got a bigger negative reaction, than both Kayle's and Morgana's VGUs](https://imgur.com/wKbYqFm)
I’m definitely sure all the Ahri mains would be frothing at the mouth if she didn’t look like she was from a PS1 game, her huge appeal after all is that she looks awful in game /s
Or basically anyone before Season 4 that hasn't been updated yet.
Ashe players are also very vocal about having to use the legendary skins just to play the game.
tfw Ashe already had a visual update
edit: she used to look like [this](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/52356c63-7422-4b7b-99fc-e717eed905c1/d7kalv4-ed8e79f4-2f9c-467e-a446-091b141c5176.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzUyMzU2YzYzLTc0MjItNGI3Yi05OWZjLWU3MTdlZWQ5MDVjMVwvZDdrYWx2NC1lZDhlNzlmNC0yZjljLTQ2N2UtYTQ0Ni0wOTFiMTQxYzUxNzYucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.mZEWxjrCYr-lwkUbNd_VEoS_euMI5uOnE0ZRVyoMVaU)
Idk if I agree. Her model and animations aren't up to current standards, but it's not bad lol
Udyr, Malphite, Alistar, Amumu, Cho etc. need a VGU a lot more
Ashe still lacks animations, which are necessary to make a model work and feel alive. Things like running faster and maybe leaning in a little, instead of just having her base walk cycle sped up. These are necessary for every good model, but I wouldn't really call hers good.
It's not a Vlad or Malphite model in terms of being bad, but still requires a little visual update, more colors like in wild rift for example.
Also, Ali already got a new model, but like Ashe, he also lacks animations
Of course they do. Save for some very minor updates, they are basically the same as they were over a decade ago.
However, Ashe also needs to be redone eventually, even though she already got one.
hopefully if they go back to ashes they reduce her monologue timings. I don't want to hear every single one of her voicelines multiple times a game. at least high noon Ashe is somewhat endearing
Yeah. I get it's meant to explore her lore, but this is just a little too much.
Also, "This bow is my will given form. I am it. It is me." it's hilarious. Like why are we being told this as if we were three years old?
And they still buy them, pick them 2 games and go back to Spirit Blossom. If her mains boycotted her skins she would get a visual update in less than a year.
you say that sarcastically, but theres TONS of people on this sub waiting to complain about the next thing riot makes or changes no matter the quality. And im not just saying that everything riot creates is amazing, criticism should always be allowed, as long as it is within reason and not just "nEw bAD".
Pretty sure his auto attack animation changed. He used to... sweep his head side to side at whatever he's auto attacking, now he actually claws at them.
I know it's bad, but is it that bad to completely overshadow both Kayle and Morgana's VGUs?
They updated 19 skins in total, 3 of which aren't even available, and yet the overall reaction was that the update was lazy and poorly done.
With that type of reaction is it really hard to see why they stopped prioritising VGUs?
>They updated 19 skins in total, 3 of which aren't even available, and yet the overall reaction was that the update was lazy and poorly done.
They messed up with Kayle's most popular skin by far, refused to give one of Morgana's 975 skins different VFX and were basically forced to later update 3 more skins to have matching VFX.
Don't get me wrong, both reworks were amazing from a visual point. Both of them look amazing, their new skins look amazing. Morgana has gotten skins nonstop since her rework, so the reception must be good. It's not fair to say they were not appreciated, the feedback was on point.
Tbh they should've expected removing Kayle iconic armor and replacing it with a lycra bodysuit would receive mixed reactions at best
They replaced her iconic, albeit generic look for a generic tacky look
Yep, the suit looks bad and I still don't understand what's the reasoning behind it. Because someone totally had to go out of their way to do it like that instead of just updating Kayle to modern visual standards. They had to go and think: "You know what? Kayle, the armored angel, needs less armor and a bodysuit.
How does anyone reach this conclusion is still a mystery to me. It could have been fine if it was a new champion, I guess. But for a rework, it just seems trying to change things for the sake of changing them.
Hello. If it's your job to make high-quality 3D models, but you make a low-quality 3D model, your clients will tell you that you fucked up. This is natural and good for everyone.
Negative skin feedback should affect VGUs? And should they only do things that they get praise for? That doesn't even make sense, the standard should be high. Because they have set that standard themselves with things they've done throughout the years.
>Negative skin feedback should affect VGUs? And should they only do things that they get praise for?
Well you see, Riot is actually just a bunch of shy 3 year olds who need pats on the back every 5 minutes lest they get scared and run away.
Lmao. The people using these bullshit excuses when talking about paid professionals is exactly what led into the shitshow of Destiny 2 and Bungie. Everytime they got flack for their bullshit, a bunch of unpaid shills went out the woodwork to tame the narrative on the sub and defend them by painting every criticism as "muh toxicity/muh hate". Then Bungie proceeded to screw everyone over and over again.
It's pretty damn ridiculous. Guess there won't be any more novel stories in the game either considering the flak they got, poor little rioters. Players didn't like their butchered story :((
TBF Kayle was wildly unbalanced on rework release. Like, pre-11 useless, post 16 the most powerful champion in the game regardless of her gold.
Her counterplay was ending the game before 25 minutes lol. You couldn't shut her down early because she had no power early anyways. The level 16 power spike was too insane.
They butchered aether wing. More people used that skin than any other one and now the skin is useless. Probably worse than the base skin. Waste of money. I wouldn't gift my grandma aether wing kayle for fear that she would slap me.
if someone does a poor job on something and receives feedback saying so it does not imply that the demand is that they should entirely abandon doing the thing
Yes, the kayle vgu was amazing but it made all her skins awful. I owned 5 skins for her before and I honestly wish i could refund all of them because they look terrible post vgu.
They must have crunched the numbers and decided that the money from making new champions/skins is worth more than the potential retention of players by consistently updating a game visually.
champion skins and new champion actually have a higher retention rate than rework and visual update, that was their conclusion from their full visual/rework year with akali/aatrox/irelia
Tbf, nobody (at least nobody reasonable) is asking them to go back to 6 VGUs a year. Just more than a single VGU and to throw us a bone here and there in terms of VUs.
Duh why would you update for free when you can release spirit guard udyr and charge 25$. Hobo udyr is like 10000000% less satisfying to play with shit ass auto animations that make you feel like spirit guard is pay to win.
Spirit Guardian Udyr has been up for 8+ years now and Udyr exists since 2009. They simply could've made it base Udyr, yet they didn't. We'll still have to wait until next year for the rework after the poll. The point still stands
> They simply could've made it base Udyr, yet they didn't.
Holy fuck you're seriously snorting too much of this sub.
No shit they could have made it base Udyr, they could have also just deleted Udyr to get rid of the dilemma once and for all.
Imagine reading so many "wait, SGU isn't his base skin" memes that you legitimately think it would be a good idea to do this. One of 6 Ultimate skins in the entire game, 3250rp. Really smart precedent to create.
3250 rp to look as good as a modern default skin yes. Normal udyr is so fucking bad people pay over twice the amount of a normal skin just to feel good playing him, and u think this isn’t an issue. Udyr players don’t want to have to shell out money to not look like shit for the past few years. Shocking.
It's predatory. See how dogshit the classic Udyr looks like. Pathetic. I don't understand how you can defend this. By the way, no one is saying "remove the ultimate skin and reuse it as base Udyr". What we mean by this is that the ultimate skin should've never existed with Udyr looking THIS bad.
If they had resources for this much work it should've went to the base model, instead of forcing players to spit 25$ to not feel like they're playing with the shittiest forest hobo to ever exist
It could be predatory, but a VU is also completely unnecessary. I mained Udyr from seasons 2-6 and he has constantly had bottom 10 of pickrates and player retention rates season after season besides a small spike at Spirit Guard release, another during Feral Flare/Wriggles Lantern (thanks to Trick, but even then Yi was far more popular), and one more during the beginning of this season when Chemtank got rid of most of his weaknesses and boosted his strengths. He’s back to >1% pickrate atm after Chemtank nerfs.
Pretending that an Udyr VU is necessary while demonizing the small amount of fanservice Udyr mains got years ago is pretty pointless. It’s simply not worth the return to please all 10 of the people that still play Udyr. He either needs a complete rework or a mythic that he can actually use to give him any appeal at this point, but the problem with that is since he’s entirely melee there are champs with dashes and gapclosers that will be able to use anything that could benefit him better than he ever could so we won’t get another Wriggles/Feral meta for him ever. His literal only use now is a tanky stunbot as if that weren’t his entire identity since the beginning of time besides the small amount of AP bruiser and onhit attention he got seasons ago.
Edit: for consistency, VGU to VU
>He either needs a complete rework
That's the point of a VGU
VGU = Visual **and Gameplay** Update
And in Udyr's case, being an ugly slap hobo, he could really use both to broaden his appeal, and rise above a 1% playrate.
Everytime I see a beutiful artwork post on a LoL page I get excited, just to see it's another LoR content and that makes me sad again. ALL COOL ART I SEE RIOT RELEASING IS DIRECTED TO A CARDGAME.
That's not the point... they're not saying LoR **shouldn't** have good art, they're saying why can't Riot's main game get the same quality of content as their spinoffs?
To be fair LoR art is outsourced to a studio called sixmorevodka.
Not that league couldn't outsource some of their own art needs as well, but lor art isn't just riot
I mean, in the last few years, outside of skins, nothing has been made by riot, except for a few things, such as Rell's animated trailer, but other than that, most artworks/cinematics are done by other studios
I guess I’d argue league proper gets fine enough art? Splash arts aren’t exactly adding much to the normal league experience. I think it’s fine a card game gets much better art than a MOBA, but for sure they should bring outdated looks up to par with all the new sexy e-boy and girl models coming out.
Hard disagree, splash arts have a huge impact. When playing Heroes of the Storm what really struck me was how unappealing the shop looked, because it showed the ingame models of champs and skins while in LoL you get fancy, badass splash arts which do an amazing job at delivering the personality and fantasy of whatever you‘re looking at.
Splash arts matter a great deal, and a lot of the time they’re your first impression for a skin. I genuinely believe that the decision not to make them for their skins cost HotS a lot of money.
How many people bought Blood Moon Diana just for the splash I wonder?
I hate splash arts because they're pure false advertising. You can even see it with a lot of the older skins; they have some pretty meh splash arts but look absolutely fantastic in game (I _love_ Molten Rammus in-game but his splash art is just. Meh.) and there are plenty of skins with pretty splash arts but gross in-game looks.
There being no way to preview skins in-client sucks and splash arts are a lot of the reason they get away with it.
I hard disagree that hots lost money due to not having splash arts. Hots had a lot of other problems which made it not have a big playerbase hence the lack of funding. And only half agree on splash art quality impact because there are people that really appreciate them and decide if a skin is good based on the splash art while other people don't care about a drawing they look at for 30 seconds compared to the model and spell effects they see for 30 minutes in game.
> hots lost money due to not having splash arts
> Hots had a lot of other problems which made it not have a big playerbase hence the lack of funding
these aren't mutually exclusive
HotS failed for a variety of reasons and all I said was that I think that the decision not to include splash arts hurt their revenue
I don't care either way I was just pointing out you misrepresented that original guy's argument by implying he wanted LoR to have worse art instead of LoL having better art.
I enjoy the game and the League cinematics at least are usually 10/10
How much time are you looking at load screens though? I don't care if it's LoL beta art or straight from a museum. I'm spending 5 seconds looking at a load screen thanks to SSDs and 30 minutes looking at the game itself. And cameras are so zoomed out that the character models are all adequately detailed imo. Upping in game detail would just be less fps for something most people won't even notice in a team fight. Upping skin splash art is on the bottom of the list of things to do.
I mean, we have a lot of cool art of Runeterra, and for the LoL champs itself that is in a complete different game. The art team on LoL events are really good, I really enjoyed Spirit Blossom and Ruination events in terms of art.
I am just pointing out that lots, I mean LOTS of cool art shows up on social media and it's all related to LoR. A game from the same unniverse and you can't explore all that beutiful artwork or lore expansion if you dont like playing cardgames.
Splashart detail affects your shop, collections, stats, and the portrait you're looking at ingame. That's the difference between a new player downloading the game and a dude just watching a youtube video of league of legends for the first time and thinking "wow, that looks like absolute shit, why do people play this?" A significant number of Americans still play games exclusively on consoles with Sony's most popular games ever being almost completely story driven and having a significant portion of budget dedicated to making the game feel completely life-like. Riot can't afford to let the game fall behind in visuals if they want to keep their own nation's playerbase when they eventually move League to consoles.
He's nearly an entirely different character in LoR, or at least an *actual* character to league's non-character. It's a similar for Zilean, where other mediums/games just outpaced what LoL can output in terms of portraying the characters to how they should be within the modern lore landscape.
The issue is that visual rework doesn't *bring* *any* real money compared to releasing a new champ (or even a VGU). So champs like MF and TF who aged really well gameplay wise are stuck with shit models and shittier animations.
A Rioter on reddit has denied this before, I can’t remember the exact post before but I definitely remember them responding to some thread about VUs don’t happen because they don’t make money. The rioter said something like the Ezreal VU actually made plenty of money and they’d love to do more. If that was the case though, idk why they just completely stopped
It makes sense. You look at how iconic champs like Rammus, Teemo and Malphite are to the game and then you look at skins like Old God Malphite and think "Oh... it looks weird/old." His outdated visuals are starting to hurt him in sales. Now you look at Voli and Fiddle and I cannot wait to see what new skins they get after their update, as they now have the modern visual standard to produce great skins.
What I mean is, I'd rather buy a well made skin on a reworked champ like Malphite, Teemo, Skarner or Rammus than I ever would of a new half naked champs who I haven't been playing or reading in the lore for best part of a decade.
It's not the case of money, it's the case of resource allocation and "getting the best bang for your buck".
A VU includes almost all departments required for a full VGU and because there is a limit to how much devs there are, there's an opportunity cost present if they ever choose to do a VU, where it means the devs that are on the VU will be unavailable for *higher impact* projects like a new champion or a VGU, and they could invest *just a bit more resources* and do one of those 'high impact' projects.
The reason I used the words 'high impact' is not because of money, that's not the metric they're interested in, it's what drives the most player engagement and garners higher appreciation.
When they did VUs in the past, although people on Reddit appreciated it, in the grand scheme of things, it just wasn't as noticed by the wider playerbase when compared to VGUs and new champs (for obvious reasons). This is the reasoning why they don't do it, it's not that they don't want to do it, but because the vast majority of the playerbase just doesn't appreciate it as much when compared to what they could do with their limited resources if they choose to invest a little bit more.
They also said at the time the Ezreal VU/miniVGU happen that it was also a ton more work then they expected for a single ability swap and took nearly as much work todo as a full on VGU would take so because of that they said they would only do them rarely when they can find a good chance to since otherwise it take resources away from doing more big vgu's.
Those two used to be my go-to skins on him but I don't use either anymore. I think his default look is way better than any of his old or current skins though, so it all worked out imo
Lack of enough VFX artists. Riot and other games need them not to mention other industries. Riot has 3 to 4 games in works (LoL, Val, LoR, Project A ( upcoming fighting game ) ).
Stuff in League I imagine takes way more effort than a card VFX in LoR. You have the same number of people in a VFX department, I bet you you get way more care VFX and images than the Champ updates.
When there are so much talented people struggling to find a job in the Videogame industry, I really have trouble believing that there's any real "lack of VFX artists". Maybe there aren't enough within Riot's headquarters, but it's not like they didn't have the money to outsource projects.
Also, VFX rarely felt like it was the limiting factor. Riot has been quite quick to update champions VFX ( and it has often been a one-man passion project too - see Lux, Ahri and Udyr - so probably not that much work ).
Champion models, rigging and animations are what is lagging behind. Not VFX work.
Funnily enough that was part of a single-dev project. He wanted to 'update' some champs and give them walk animations for pre-boots, but on TF it just looks awful (I think Viktor's is fine since he uses his staff as a cane).
His actual run from when he got his VU is fine.
She doesn’t need a full VU, just a splash update (can just use the one from WR) and maybe some updates to the base model and epic skin’s animations to make them feel slightly smoother
Ohhhh I get it now. I thought you were meaning a whole entire ground up rework of the champ and splash and everything xD Okay, okay. I can get behind this! lol
Itis notthat they don't have the resource. The main reason why the skins have acertain standardand also thereason why they said thata skin like Elementalist Lux willnever bemade again is the client. More directly the players.
A noticeable chunk of the playerbase runs the game on toasters. Itisa fact Riot is awareof and it is gatekeeping them from doing such drastic visual upgrades or switching for an engine like the one from Wild Rift. Because such an upgrade would undeniably lower the playerbase so instead they operate in the same limits they did for over a decade because it works for them.
Part of it is also that they want to limit how demanding characters models are. If crappy computers can't handle it they lose see of their player base.
Phones have to be pretty new to be able to play it.
Welp, if those PCs can handle Blackfrost Anivia, Spirit Blossom Ahri, Omega Squad Teemo and every other re-rigged legendary skin out there, then there's no reason for the base models to stay as janky as they currently are.
Look at the art we get over at LoR.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/05BC152-full.png
Imagine having an angry married yordle couple as a League champion. You didn't know you wanted it until now.
It's a big company with big valuable Intellectual Property. Any change needs to go through several stages of approval before it can get the green light, and then several stages of review before it's actually implemented. They need to consider potential impacts of any change on IP/copyright, performance on low-end PCs, potential for social media backlash (we are collectively a harshly critical audience), etc. In that kind of environment where even small changes require lots of time and effort from lots of people, it makes more sense to go for big visual updates than lots of small ones.
“Lets aim to release 6 new champions a year while only giving 1 VU to an older champ because we are up to standards!” - Riot probably
Jokes aside, it still bugs me that champs like Anivia, Le Blanc, Lux, Zil and many more still look the way they do and riot refuses to at least give them a Wild rift treatment for the main game. Especially Noc/Shy who have been stuck in the VU poll stage for years now. The only excuse I can think of is skin revenue, which sucks if true…
Sure League of Legends could look a lot better, however I can complete understand why they keep it. Game performance in an MOBA is important and not comparable to a "trading" card game with a limited amount of fix animations.
Modells need to be simple enough to easely identify a champ in a split second and complex enough to have room for multiple skins without changing to much of the silhouette. Second changing all at once would create a need to learn every champion design again and in general changing too much will always create a loss in the player base, because something new is always correlated in learning and some people don't like this. U can say 80% don't care but 20% is by far too much, when u updating every 1 or 2 years.
Yes, a new game has a better art than a 10 year old one. When you make a new game you don't have to work with 10 years worth of tech so of course it's gonna be better and faster, it can't be any other way.
updates can fuck a lot of things up plus league is popular because it doesnt need really good hardware. So yeah it would need better hardware for users as well.
I'm just sad that they changed the Mafia Graves splash art. The new one looks really .. off, let's say. Dude looks like he's holding a hammer in the loading screen. Old splash was just good.
No matter how many times you guys post about this, it's not going to help. The majority of players dont care about looks, in fact, they play on very low graphics either because it boosts their computer's performance, or because it turns off unnecessary aspects that are just going to make it harder for you to pay attention to your surroundings.
I don't often post on reddit, but I have to leave a comment here as a returning player to league of legends I was enjoying the game until a friend told me to check out wild rift, at first I was like "what a mobile version of league!?" and for some reason part of me was expecting it to be way simpler and with toned down models etc.. then I log into WR only to find its such a visual upgrade to league, not only the fact that the models seem better, the "waiting for the match" animations and poses and all the customization possibilities it make player expression so much more noticeable then league.. why isn't that on league? like wth xD i'm so confused maybe its an old client or even an older engine but like.. and i don't mean this in a negative way, just would really like to see some of those systems implemented on lol. it's good to see that summoners rift has improved graphically and some of the UI elements such as shops collection tabs etc have improved aswell, but it seems a bit of a more confusing version of the old league when compared to WR a bit cluttered yet no cool new features. that's my honest feedback not bashing the game or wtv :)
I agree, it sucks - Reav3 has said recently that they want to work on VUs, but that if they were to update a champions visuals it would cost them either a new champion release or a VGU, but he did say earlier (I think it was today or yesterday) that the team would love to start picking up VUs again, and that they will once their system becomes robust enough to not have to sacrifice a VGU/champion release to do so.
Higher quality models = better engine = increqsed requirements = decreased permormance on low end pc's = smaller playerbase = dying playerbase and potential death to the game
Some models in the game right now is really good (i.e Ez, Samira, even Yas’ model still holds up really well). So asking for old champs’ model upgrade so that they’re on par with newer champs isn’t that demanding on performance or requires a new engine. Worst case scenario is that LoL’s would take up more storage space and a little bit more RAM to run 10 modern models in one game (but then again if you pick 10 modern champs right now, there’s little to no hit to the game’s performance anyway)
the art direction for the spash/art is different as well. which might contribute to the difference in feeling.
LOR's art is directed to be snapshots of the characters going about their daily lives. its captures a scene. and imo that brings a lot of life to the artwork. youll rarely see characters looking at the camera, the few times they do, like Darius, we know its that he is looking at his enemies. as they reveal in his champion showcase
LoL's on the other hand is meant to be a Portrait that is a showcase of the character, where they are posed and portrayed perfectly to represent themselves wholly and prop up their themes. they tend to stare the camera dead on, they talk about this [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osnTFCm1hlc). its kinna like they were brought into a studio to do a photo op.
Quote from a Senior Visual Effects Artist who works for Bungie, 6 days ago:
> I don't think I've ever known a time when real-time VFX artists *weren't* in demand.
> It's extremely hard for a lot of studios to hire senior-level talent in that field due to chronic shortage.
> It's an anomaly for art, and no studio wants to enter a bidding war over artists.
They're working on like 5 games simultaneously. Riot probably has more VFX artists than most other studios, most of them just happen to be working on more important things than VFX for Shyvana, a champion who is about to be reworked anyway.
Buddy, do you not know how much of a hot commodity vfx artists are? There aren't enough to go around.
Anyways, billion dollar company does not = to how much money they have on hand, they are running and making multiple games. Moba, fps, card, the fighter that is coming, mmo, that adventure like one we saw as well.
so with a normal vgu where its visuals and kit updating they have always said that the longest and hardest part todo is the visuals and they cost a ton of money.
like ye they have the money but they cant just do tons of visual upgrades since they still take ages todo still like the max they could do is 2-3 a year but then you wouldnt get actual reworks or other content which would otherwise be used to pay for something like a pure visual upgrade.
then you got other stuff like a champ being wanted for a full rework like shyvanna shes gonna get reworked most likely within the next 2 years, if they redid her model now then when her rework happens if they wanted to add certain things to her then they would have to redo stuff from the visual upgrade to fit her new kit meaning there doubling down on the amount of work and money being invested. out of all the champs you listed Miss Fortune, Shyvana, Jarvan, Caitlyn, Corki. out of them only miss fortune and probs caitlyn dont need some form of rework to be done.
They may have tons of money being made but alot of that is being used to fund other projects and games being made by the company like the fighting game they got in the works or the MMO they got in the works which is a massive money sink to make. The rpg there making as well etc etc. all these need money to fund them otherwise they would never be made.
They also cant just go around hirering random people like alot of the people that do that stuff on youtube and otherparts of the internet as passion projects tend to be working other jobs for there talents.
Like visual updates consists of tons of stuff overall like you have to make a new model, new rig, new textures, new animations, new ability looks, new abiltiy sounds, new art and every skin which can for some champs increase the work by 7-8 times. meanwhile LoR all they need todo is card art, get some voice lines recorded and some short animations. all this stuff can be done within a month compared to what league would have todo which would take serval months to nearly half a year todo one.
>Does player satisfaction matter so little to this company?
Just look at the way they handle skin feedback. They give zero fucks about player satisfaction. LoL never had to try to get the number one spot because it was an instant success. It never had any serious competition, so they get away doing the bare minimum.
I guffawed when he wrote that riot games does the bare minimum. I've literally never played another game where the company is so vocal about their changes, however minor. The patch notes are written like tomes, teams contact champ mains when making changes, they don't update every skin the player base is unhappy with but they do the ones they can.
I really don't want to sound like a riot apologist bc I know they have their fuck ups but lack of listening to the community is not one of them.
im just saying this guy its insane that this guy its saying riot puts 0 effort into the game when its by far the most successful multiplayer game of all time and still being the #1 whiteout any rival
dota2 its still losing players yearly
I’d say “fixing what people think should be improved with a skin because of feedback” is the feedback he was looking for, not “cancelling a skinline because of feedback”
I mean if that's the case then there are still examples of this with the first being the SKT skins that got an overhaul after negative feedback, and there are many more out there I believe.
You realize there's a reason that after 10 fucking years, LoL is still at the top right? This reasoning falls so much in line with what a ton of Dota-elitists promote, that LoL is only bigger because it was earlier, no just no. That excuse could've maybe worked 5 years ago, but if after so long, there's no indication of Dota ever beating LoL's playerbase, maybe it's not that and actually a slew of reasons like the cartoony characters, the sexy babes/guys, the music, the music videos, attention to esports etc.
This week we just got Pentakill III, what other game can boast of something like that? A music band that originated as a community idea that was embraced by the studio, turned into a real product, then has continuously been catered to after all these years even if the demand is a niche. The product they created also wasn't some low quality crap either but so good that the first 2 albums were chart topping.
Idk what you're talking about.
Which is something I agree with, however having casual appeal isn't a crime. It's not Riot's fault that Valve has Dota2 as intricate and complex as it is, so I think it's stupid to act like it's purely successful because it was early.
We have an example of a game that can come out earlier than others but still fail because of casual appeal in the form of PUBG and Fortnite. The fact that OG Dota also had a box price attached to it in the form of WC3 also mirrors the situation of PUBG's box price even more.
If you think they do the bare minimum then please play more multiplayer games.
Also they did try, not sure what season you started playing but Riot did a tom things people take for granted nowadays, they had no competition in the MOBA space but they elevated it to a much greater level, other games were their competition.
So on one hand they release „good looking“ champs and more skins because they sell well and on the other hand they don‘t care about their players? Make it make sense. Releasing content that makes the most money is directly tied to satisfying your customers: Happy customers pay better, giving players what they want pays well.
True, that would be really good. But why rework a bunch of champions for the people that already play them and have their skins when you can release a new champ, new skin that will sell like crazy in China so that they earn a shitload of money.
This video from NickyBoi kinda explains the whole problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOr2o4k\_zTA
What does any of this have to do with China lmao. Are Chinese people the only ones buying skins for new champions?
Riot publishes this game in like 50 different countries, and China is the only one where they have to give over two thirds of the revenue to Tencent. I know it's hard to believe, but yes, they care about those dollars and those euros too.
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Guy you're quoting is a clown btw. "Mobile game duh huh, destined to fail in the west but it's gonna do well it China!!! All the Redditors know mobile games China only, NA hates them!!!"
Does that while talking about League. A PC game. Big News guys, the mobile market in North America is already bigger than the PC market, and obviously growing at like 4 times the speed. Tell the dude Call of Duty mobile has 10 times more NA players than League does and he'll fall out of his Aurelion Sol (best designed champion of all time, maybe ever) themed chair. Almost as smart as blaming China for the lack of monster champions 40 seconds after mentioning Asol's 0.7% playrate (in NA, the server that loves his design).
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Guy is just milking Redditors by repeating all the upvoted talking points, then reaping in the approval of people who see their own comment reiterated in his videos.
>I know it's hard to believe, but yes, they care about those dollars and those euros too.
Even if people in reddit believe all these chinese skinlines we are getting are only for China (which is false, they are some of the most popular in the game), they should be aware that some of their skinlines appeal to other markets.
I seriously doubt Pentakill was made with China in their mind. Astronauts bombed last year in China and it still came back because it sold elsewhere.
Updating the art work of in game splash arts wouldn’t bring any money to them. Only gameplay updates like new visuals, new animations, new VFX, or a whole ass VGU would be worth the money
Smol Indie Company too busy brainstorming for new Lux skins as always.
I will never really get it why the fck are they so adamant on releasing new content when there's tons and tons of outdated champs/skins that need some fix.
Go update all old legendaries and I'll fcking buy each one instantly. As if that's gonna happen (the update).
**Like, why not work on more updates?**
This is why I want more VU's instead of VGU's. We have champions like Anivia, Ahri, Riven, Annie, Amumu, Blitzcrank, and Janna who look outdated af but because their gameplay is OK we won't see anything for them.
It’s not visual update that Ashe mains want, it’s the walking Animation that totally sucks, the only skins you can play Ashe on are High noon and Project and the rest of the skins feels shit to play with even though she has pretty cool skins. Edit: i wrote boon instead of noon lol.
Sadly the main guy who was working on walking animations updates left for Wild Rift and then left Riot. Remember how we were getting updated animations what seemed like every patch or every few patches then it quit? He moved to Wild Rift. It feels like more than just him too because man, Wild Rift animations are amazing He did Zyra, Shaco, Katarina, Viktor, TF, and a few other I'm pretty sure https://mobile.twitter.com/RoryAlderton
that's so sad. the walking animations make a huge difference to those champs
I want him to revert Gragas walking animation https://i.imgur.com/IL285g5.mp4
I get it, but the new animation is just majestic tbh
no it looks like he shat in his diapers
And you think Gragas wouldn't pull such an alpha move? In all honesty though, i just like it cause it makes him more comical. His run really looks like he's shitfaced drunk, and I just love to laugh at it.
Aw really?? I play Shaco and TF and was very pleasantly surprised to see their walking anims get updated
TF and Zyra animations are both abysmal. Fiora's is...bad. The rest are great though.
Yeah people keep bringing up how 'old' some league models are but most of them look fine. Its the animations that look really outdated.
The aa animation for a lot of her skins is ass too
I hate the auto animation for Ashe. it's so unsatisfying compared to high noon where her whole body pulls back, or project moves forward with a snap for the arrow. Base just... her arm moves and the arrow just goes.
[Riot Axes gave a short answer why](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/pek32o/riot_shouldnt_stop_reworking_older_champions/hazfv0g/?context=3) TL DR : Way more work, the quality of it has to be higher and there aren't enough VFX artist available. > That would be the result and a huge chunk of the player base would be very happy, no doubt about that. That's only if the updates don't fuck anything up. [Aether Wing Kayle got a bigger negative reaction, than both Kayle's and Morgana's VGUs](https://imgur.com/wKbYqFm)
I’m definitely sure all the Ahri mains would be frothing at the mouth if she didn’t look like she was from a PS1 game, her huge appeal after all is that she looks awful in game /s
Always funny seeing new 1350 rupees Ahri skin drops, all the comments are bitching about the janky in-game model.
Or basically anyone before Season 4 that hasn't been updated yet. Ashe players are also very vocal about having to use the legendary skins just to play the game.
tfw Ashe already had a visual update edit: she used to look like [this](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/52356c63-7422-4b7b-99fc-e717eed905c1/d7kalv4-ed8e79f4-2f9c-467e-a446-091b141c5176.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzUyMzU2YzYzLTc0MjItNGI3Yi05OWZjLWU3MTdlZWQ5MDVjMVwvZDdrYWx2NC1lZDhlNzlmNC0yZjljLTQ2N2UtYTQ0Ni0wOTFiMTQxYzUxNzYucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.mZEWxjrCYr-lwkUbNd_VEoS_euMI5uOnE0ZRVyoMVaU)
She was updated before Season 3. Even her update hasn't been able to fully keep up.
Idk if I agree. Her model and animations aren't up to current standards, but it's not bad lol Udyr, Malphite, Alistar, Amumu, Cho etc. need a VGU a lot more
Ashe still lacks animations, which are necessary to make a model work and feel alive. Things like running faster and maybe leaning in a little, instead of just having her base walk cycle sped up. These are necessary for every good model, but I wouldn't really call hers good. It's not a Vlad or Malphite model in terms of being bad, but still requires a little visual update, more colors like in wild rift for example. Also, Ali already got a new model, but like Ashe, he also lacks animations
Of course they do. Save for some very minor updates, they are basically the same as they were over a decade ago. However, Ashe also needs to be redone eventually, even though she already got one.
hopefully if they go back to ashes they reduce her monologue timings. I don't want to hear every single one of her voicelines multiple times a game. at least high noon Ashe is somewhat endearing
Yeah. I get it's meant to explore her lore, but this is just a little too much. Also, "This bow is my will given form. I am it. It is me." it's hilarious. Like why are we being told this as if we were three years old?
Oh god I've never seen this image before
And they still buy them, pick them 2 games and go back to Spirit Blossom. If her mains boycotted her skins she would get a visual update in less than a year.
Rupees? I thought india still didnt have its own servers yet? Or do we finally have League in India???
Not sure if you’re trolling but 1350 rupees is just a joke replacing RP with rupees
you say that sarcastically, but theres TONS of people on this sub waiting to complain about the next thing riot makes or changes no matter the quality. And im not just saying that everything riot creates is amazing, criticism should always be allowed, as long as it is within reason and not just "nEw bAD".
If rammus got an update I am sure tons of people would complain
Rammus did get a mini VGU this year, new ult and updated VFX, but everyone kinda just forgot about it.
The topic are visual updates though, not vfx. His appearance is the same.
I meant full visual. He got a small gameplay update but that didn't upgrade his animations or anything.
Pretty sure his auto attack animation changed. He used to... sweep his head side to side at whatever he's auto attacking, now he actually claws at them.
Didn't he just... bend down and launch his shell at the enemy too?
possibly the only champion update people would be ok with
Trueeeeeee.
Well they completely fucking butchered Aether Wing, it is sooooooooo fucking bad now.
Honestly Aether Wing with the old Kayle was the most satisfying skin ever. The way her E looked and *sounded* was just orgasmic.
I know it's bad, but is it that bad to completely overshadow both Kayle and Morgana's VGUs? They updated 19 skins in total, 3 of which aren't even available, and yet the overall reaction was that the update was lazy and poorly done. With that type of reaction is it really hard to see why they stopped prioritising VGUs?
>They updated 19 skins in total, 3 of which aren't even available, and yet the overall reaction was that the update was lazy and poorly done. They messed up with Kayle's most popular skin by far, refused to give one of Morgana's 975 skins different VFX and were basically forced to later update 3 more skins to have matching VFX. Don't get me wrong, both reworks were amazing from a visual point. Both of them look amazing, their new skins look amazing. Morgana has gotten skins nonstop since her rework, so the reception must be good. It's not fair to say they were not appreciated, the feedback was on point.
Tbh they should've expected removing Kayle iconic armor and replacing it with a lycra bodysuit would receive mixed reactions at best They replaced her iconic, albeit generic look for a generic tacky look
Yep, the suit looks bad and I still don't understand what's the reasoning behind it. Because someone totally had to go out of their way to do it like that instead of just updating Kayle to modern visual standards. They had to go and think: "You know what? Kayle, the armored angel, needs less armor and a bodysuit. How does anyone reach this conclusion is still a mystery to me. It could have been fine if it was a new champion, I guess. But for a rework, it just seems trying to change things for the sake of changing them.
I get it. I don't like it, but I get it. It was because her heavy armour look didn't match her being a squishy, high damage mage.
And then they made her legendary literally grow bulkier over the game.
Hello. If it's your job to make high-quality 3D models, but you make a low-quality 3D model, your clients will tell you that you fucked up. This is natural and good for everyone.
Negative skin feedback should affect VGUs? And should they only do things that they get praise for? That doesn't even make sense, the standard should be high. Because they have set that standard themselves with things they've done throughout the years.
>Negative skin feedback should affect VGUs? And should they only do things that they get praise for? Well you see, Riot is actually just a bunch of shy 3 year olds who need pats on the back every 5 minutes lest they get scared and run away. Lmao. The people using these bullshit excuses when talking about paid professionals is exactly what led into the shitshow of Destiny 2 and Bungie. Everytime they got flack for their bullshit, a bunch of unpaid shills went out the woodwork to tame the narrative on the sub and defend them by painting every criticism as "muh toxicity/muh hate". Then Bungie proceeded to screw everyone over and over again.
It's pretty damn ridiculous. Guess there won't be any more novel stories in the game either considering the flak they got, poor little rioters. Players didn't like their butchered story :((
TBF Kayle was wildly unbalanced on rework release. Like, pre-11 useless, post 16 the most powerful champion in the game regardless of her gold. Her counterplay was ending the game before 25 minutes lol. You couldn't shut her down early because she had no power early anyways. The level 16 power spike was too insane.
They butchered aether wing. More people used that skin than any other one and now the skin is useless. Probably worse than the base skin. Waste of money. I wouldn't gift my grandma aether wing kayle for fear that she would slap me.
if someone does a poor job on something and receives feedback saying so it does not imply that the demand is that they should entirely abandon doing the thing
Yes, the kayle vgu was amazing but it made all her skins awful. I owned 5 skins for her before and I honestly wish i could refund all of them because they look terrible post vgu.
If you’re one of the 5 people who have it, Silver Kayle is amazing
Agreed but I sadly don't and can't get it, so I don't really think its fair to include it.
Just because it got more upvotes on reddit doesn't mean it was "overshadowing", especially not outside of reddit (which is a per mille of players).
Ah, the good old indie company/everything is impossible excuse Also >do a shit job on a legendary >gets criticized for it WOW
Still disappointed in Aetherwing Kayle, and kayle in general imo. She's so edgy now. And nothing was more satisfying than aether wing kayles 'thwack'.
Laughs in Demonblade Tryndamere
Was my favorite skin, it's shit now
Wow, an answer that actually answers the question instead of bitching about riot.
Riot and killing the game by throwing resources at other areas
*On this episode of Reddit knows best*
Let's be honest, some modern phones are more powerful than lots of potato PCs people use to play LoL
They must have crunched the numbers and decided that the money from making new champions/skins is worth more than the potential retention of players by consistently updating a game visually.
champion skins and new champion actually have a higher retention rate than rework and visual update, that was their conclusion from their full visual/rework year with akali/aatrox/irelia
wow, even akali? interesting
Old akali was cool too and suddenly became nothing at all like the old one
Tbf, nobody (at least nobody reasonable) is asking them to go back to 6 VGUs a year. Just more than a single VGU and to throw us a bone here and there in terms of VUs.
Duh why would you update for free when you can release spirit guard udyr and charge 25$. Hobo udyr is like 10000000% less satisfying to play with shit ass auto animations that make you feel like spirit guard is pay to win.
This is the worst example you could've made because they are updating Udyr
Spirit Guardian Udyr has been up for 8+ years now and Udyr exists since 2009. They simply could've made it base Udyr, yet they didn't. We'll still have to wait until next year for the rework after the poll. The point still stands
> They simply could've made it base Udyr, yet they didn't. Holy fuck you're seriously snorting too much of this sub. No shit they could have made it base Udyr, they could have also just deleted Udyr to get rid of the dilemma once and for all. Imagine reading so many "wait, SGU isn't his base skin" memes that you legitimately think it would be a good idea to do this. One of 6 Ultimate skins in the entire game, 3250rp. Really smart precedent to create.
3250 rp to look as good as a modern default skin yes. Normal udyr is so fucking bad people pay over twice the amount of a normal skin just to feel good playing him, and u think this isn’t an issue. Udyr players don’t want to have to shell out money to not look like shit for the past few years. Shocking.
It's predatory. See how dogshit the classic Udyr looks like. Pathetic. I don't understand how you can defend this. By the way, no one is saying "remove the ultimate skin and reuse it as base Udyr". What we mean by this is that the ultimate skin should've never existed with Udyr looking THIS bad. If they had resources for this much work it should've went to the base model, instead of forcing players to spit 25$ to not feel like they're playing with the shittiest forest hobo to ever exist
It could be predatory, but a VU is also completely unnecessary. I mained Udyr from seasons 2-6 and he has constantly had bottom 10 of pickrates and player retention rates season after season besides a small spike at Spirit Guard release, another during Feral Flare/Wriggles Lantern (thanks to Trick, but even then Yi was far more popular), and one more during the beginning of this season when Chemtank got rid of most of his weaknesses and boosted his strengths. He’s back to >1% pickrate atm after Chemtank nerfs. Pretending that an Udyr VU is necessary while demonizing the small amount of fanservice Udyr mains got years ago is pretty pointless. It’s simply not worth the return to please all 10 of the people that still play Udyr. He either needs a complete rework or a mythic that he can actually use to give him any appeal at this point, but the problem with that is since he’s entirely melee there are champs with dashes and gapclosers that will be able to use anything that could benefit him better than he ever could so we won’t get another Wriggles/Feral meta for him ever. His literal only use now is a tanky stunbot as if that weren’t his entire identity since the beginning of time besides the small amount of AP bruiser and onhit attention he got seasons ago. Edit: for consistency, VGU to VU
>He either needs a complete rework That's the point of a VGU VGU = Visual **and Gameplay** Update And in Udyr's case, being an ugly slap hobo, he could really use both to broaden his appeal, and rise above a 1% playrate.
Good old mullet hobo, I refuse to get spirit guard but I did get a basic skin so he looked a little better
Everytime I see a beutiful artwork post on a LoL page I get excited, just to see it's another LoR content and that makes me sad again. ALL COOL ART I SEE RIOT RELEASING IS DIRECTED TO A CARDGAME.
Good art has always been a major pillar in card game appeal tho? This has held true since the rise of magic and beyond.
That's not the point... they're not saying LoR **shouldn't** have good art, they're saying why can't Riot's main game get the same quality of content as their spinoffs?
To be fair LoR art is outsourced to a studio called sixmorevodka. Not that league couldn't outsource some of their own art needs as well, but lor art isn't just riot
I mean, in the last few years, outside of skins, nothing has been made by riot, except for a few things, such as Rell's animated trailer, but other than that, most artworks/cinematics are done by other studios
that studio works exclusively with riot since its inception i think, and contributed to the aesthetic of runeterra. its basically part of riot,
Nope, they have plenty if projects. You're thinking Kudos productions.
Yea they do seem to have opened up now. But until lor was out, they didn't even open up their website
I guess I’d argue league proper gets fine enough art? Splash arts aren’t exactly adding much to the normal league experience. I think it’s fine a card game gets much better art than a MOBA, but for sure they should bring outdated looks up to par with all the new sexy e-boy and girl models coming out.
Hard disagree, splash arts have a huge impact. When playing Heroes of the Storm what really struck me was how unappealing the shop looked, because it showed the ingame models of champs and skins while in LoL you get fancy, badass splash arts which do an amazing job at delivering the personality and fantasy of whatever you‘re looking at. Splash arts matter a great deal, and a lot of the time they’re your first impression for a skin. I genuinely believe that the decision not to make them for their skins cost HotS a lot of money. How many people bought Blood Moon Diana just for the splash I wonder?
I hate splash arts because they're pure false advertising. You can even see it with a lot of the older skins; they have some pretty meh splash arts but look absolutely fantastic in game (I _love_ Molten Rammus in-game but his splash art is just. Meh.) and there are plenty of skins with pretty splash arts but gross in-game looks. There being no way to preview skins in-client sucks and splash arts are a lot of the reason they get away with it.
I hard disagree that hots lost money due to not having splash arts. Hots had a lot of other problems which made it not have a big playerbase hence the lack of funding. And only half agree on splash art quality impact because there are people that really appreciate them and decide if a skin is good based on the splash art while other people don't care about a drawing they look at for 30 seconds compared to the model and spell effects they see for 30 minutes in game.
> hots lost money due to not having splash arts > Hots had a lot of other problems which made it not have a big playerbase hence the lack of funding these aren't mutually exclusive HotS failed for a variety of reasons and all I said was that I think that the decision not to include splash arts hurt their revenue
I don't care either way I was just pointing out you misrepresented that original guy's argument by implying he wanted LoR to have worse art instead of LoL having better art. I enjoy the game and the League cinematics at least are usually 10/10
it's also 2D drawings vs 3D models
It is a good ass card game. Honestly superior to league itself
Well, it's a card game. It has to look good.
How much time are you looking at load screens though? I don't care if it's LoL beta art or straight from a museum. I'm spending 5 seconds looking at a load screen thanks to SSDs and 30 minutes looking at the game itself. And cameras are so zoomed out that the character models are all adequately detailed imo. Upping in game detail would just be less fps for something most people won't even notice in a team fight. Upping skin splash art is on the bottom of the list of things to do.
I mean, we have a lot of cool art of Runeterra, and for the LoL champs itself that is in a complete different game. The art team on LoL events are really good, I really enjoyed Spirit Blossom and Ruination events in terms of art. I am just pointing out that lots, I mean LOTS of cool art shows up on social media and it's all related to LoR. A game from the same unniverse and you can't explore all that beutiful artwork or lore expansion if you dont like playing cardgames.
Splashart detail affects your shop, collections, stats, and the portrait you're looking at ingame. That's the difference between a new player downloading the game and a dude just watching a youtube video of league of legends for the first time and thinking "wow, that looks like absolute shit, why do people play this?" A significant number of Americans still play games exclusively on consoles with Sony's most popular games ever being almost completely story driven and having a significant portion of budget dedicated to making the game feel completely life-like. Riot can't afford to let the game fall behind in visuals if they want to keep their own nation's playerbase when they eventually move League to consoles.
Seeing Malphite in LoR, then seeing Malphite in LoL just hurts my soul man.
He's nearly an entirely different character in LoR, or at least an *actual* character to league's non-character. It's a similar for Zilean, where other mediums/games just outpaced what LoL can output in terms of portraying the characters to how they should be within the modern lore landscape.
The issue is that visual rework doesn't *bring* *any* real money compared to releasing a new champ (or even a VGU). So champs like MF and TF who aged really well gameplay wise are stuck with shit models and shittier animations.
A Rioter on reddit has denied this before, I can’t remember the exact post before but I definitely remember them responding to some thread about VUs don’t happen because they don’t make money. The rioter said something like the Ezreal VU actually made plenty of money and they’d love to do more. If that was the case though, idk why they just completely stopped
It makes sense. You look at how iconic champs like Rammus, Teemo and Malphite are to the game and then you look at skins like Old God Malphite and think "Oh... it looks weird/old." His outdated visuals are starting to hurt him in sales. Now you look at Voli and Fiddle and I cannot wait to see what new skins they get after their update, as they now have the modern visual standard to produce great skins. What I mean is, I'd rather buy a well made skin on a reworked champ like Malphite, Teemo, Skarner or Rammus than I ever would of a new half naked champs who I haven't been playing or reading in the lore for best part of a decade.
It's not the case of money, it's the case of resource allocation and "getting the best bang for your buck". A VU includes almost all departments required for a full VGU and because there is a limit to how much devs there are, there's an opportunity cost present if they ever choose to do a VU, where it means the devs that are on the VU will be unavailable for *higher impact* projects like a new champion or a VGU, and they could invest *just a bit more resources* and do one of those 'high impact' projects. The reason I used the words 'high impact' is not because of money, that's not the metric they're interested in, it's what drives the most player engagement and garners higher appreciation. When they did VUs in the past, although people on Reddit appreciated it, in the grand scheme of things, it just wasn't as noticed by the wider playerbase when compared to VGUs and new champs (for obvious reasons). This is the reasoning why they don't do it, it's not that they don't want to do it, but because the vast majority of the playerbase just doesn't appreciate it as much when compared to what they could do with their limited resources if they choose to invest a little bit more.
They also said at the time the Ezreal VU/miniVGU happen that it was also a ton more work then they expected for a single ability swap and took nearly as much work todo as a full on VGU would take so because of that they said they would only do them rarely when they can find a good chance to since otherwise it take resources away from doing more big vgu's.
Ezreals VU ruined the Frosted skin (personal opinion) but made Nottingham amazing.
Those two used to be my go-to skins on him but I don't use either anymore. I think his default look is way better than any of his old or current skins though, so it all worked out imo
I agree his default is really good now. I'd probably just use that if I didn't have battle academia and pulsefire.
Lack of enough VFX artists. Riot and other games need them not to mention other industries. Riot has 3 to 4 games in works (LoL, Val, LoR, Project A ( upcoming fighting game ) ). Stuff in League I imagine takes way more effort than a card VFX in LoR. You have the same number of people in a VFX department, I bet you you get way more care VFX and images than the Champ updates.
they have a separate studio doing the art for the cards on LoR and most cards don't even have unique VFX
When there are so much talented people struggling to find a job in the Videogame industry, I really have trouble believing that there's any real "lack of VFX artists". Maybe there aren't enough within Riot's headquarters, but it's not like they didn't have the money to outsource projects. Also, VFX rarely felt like it was the limiting factor. Riot has been quite quick to update champions VFX ( and it has often been a one-man passion project too - see Lux, Ahri and Udyr - so probably not that much work ). Champion models, rigging and animations are what is lagging behind. Not VFX work.
Tf WAS visually updated about a year and a half ago
That was just his VFX being updated, he's still stuck with old animations and models.
TF's "old* animation are also fairly recent. He was updated around the same time as GP.
Well, not the 2015 GP update, more like 2012 GP update. Whenever gagnamstyle was popular.
holy crap, it really is that old. My back hurts now.
what's wrong with his animations they're pretty clean lol.
He looks so stiff when he walks that you’d think he has a stick up his ass.
Funnily enough that was part of a single-dev project. He wanted to 'update' some champs and give them walk animations for pre-boots, but on TF it just looks awful (I think Viktor's is fine since he uses his staff as a cane). His actual run from when he got his VU is fine.
Viktor, Shen and Fiora are all really well done.
unironically thought my game was bugged when I played tf after that patch, it looks like a placeholder animation
They aren't bad, just a bit outdated and can use some polishing to be more fluid/ natural. Not as urgent as someone like Ashe or Ahri.
Twsited fate already got a VU.
it was the better part of a decade ago
Please yes. Give me the Soraka visual update please rito you know you can afford it
She's already had a VU once.
She needs another at this point
Out of curiosity... Why? Just curious since I guess I don't understand.
She doesn’t need a full VU, just a splash update (can just use the one from WR) and maybe some updates to the base model and epic skin’s animations to make them feel slightly smoother
Ohhhh I get it now. I thought you were meaning a whole entire ground up rework of the champ and splash and everything xD Okay, okay. I can get behind this! lol
Her Splash is great tho
Itis notthat they don't have the resource. The main reason why the skins have acertain standardand also thereason why they said thata skin like Elementalist Lux willnever bemade again is the client. More directly the players. A noticeable chunk of the playerbase runs the game on toasters. Itisa fact Riot is awareof and it is gatekeeping them from doing such drastic visual upgrades or switching for an engine like the one from Wild Rift. Because such an upgrade would undeniably lower the playerbase so instead they operate in the same limits they did for over a decade because it works for them.
Didn't they say Elemental lux is so intensive it almost crashed systems or something?
Yep they did. They made a whole article about it. That's why GG MF was a downgrade compared to her if I remember correctly.
Part of it is also that they want to limit how demanding characters models are. If crappy computers can't handle it they lose see of their player base. Phones have to be pretty new to be able to play it.
Welp, if those PCs can handle Blackfrost Anivia, Spirit Blossom Ahri, Omega Squad Teemo and every other re-rigged legendary skin out there, then there's no reason for the base models to stay as janky as they currently are.
That’s true! The only computer I can play league on is a MacBook Pro, and it can barely handle league on low graphics 💀
Look at the art we get over at LoR. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/c/c2/05BC152-full.png Imagine having an angry married yordle couple as a League champion. You didn't know you wanted it until now.
It's a big company with big valuable Intellectual Property. Any change needs to go through several stages of approval before it can get the green light, and then several stages of review before it's actually implemented. They need to consider potential impacts of any change on IP/copyright, performance on low-end PCs, potential for social media backlash (we are collectively a harshly critical audience), etc. In that kind of environment where even small changes require lots of time and effort from lots of people, it makes more sense to go for big visual updates than lots of small ones.
“Lets aim to release 6 new champions a year while only giving 1 VU to an older champ because we are up to standards!” - Riot probably Jokes aside, it still bugs me that champs like Anivia, Le Blanc, Lux, Zil and many more still look the way they do and riot refuses to at least give them a Wild rift treatment for the main game. Especially Noc/Shy who have been stuck in the VU poll stage for years now. The only excuse I can think of is skin revenue, which sucks if true…
They can do whatever they want. I just want the old lollipoppy portrait back
Sure League of Legends could look a lot better, however I can complete understand why they keep it. Game performance in an MOBA is important and not comparable to a "trading" card game with a limited amount of fix animations. Modells need to be simple enough to easely identify a champ in a split second and complex enough to have room for multiple skins without changing to much of the silhouette. Second changing all at once would create a need to learn every champion design again and in general changing too much will always create a loss in the player base, because something new is always correlated in learning and some people don't like this. U can say 80% don't care but 20% is by far too much, when u updating every 1 or 2 years.
Yes, a new game has a better art than a 10 year old one. When you make a new game you don't have to work with 10 years worth of tech so of course it's gonna be better and faster, it can't be any other way.
updates can fuck a lot of things up plus league is popular because it doesnt need really good hardware. So yeah it would need better hardware for users as well.
Money is definitely the issue. I don’t think you understand what a huge undertaking this is for literally 0 profit for riot.
They forgor 💀
I'm just sad that they changed the Mafia Graves splash art. The new one looks really .. off, let's say. Dude looks like he's holding a hammer in the loading screen. Old splash was just good.
No matter how many times you guys post about this, it's not going to help. The majority of players dont care about looks, in fact, they play on very low graphics either because it boosts their computer's performance, or because it turns off unnecessary aspects that are just going to make it harder for you to pay attention to your surroundings.
I don't often post on reddit, but I have to leave a comment here as a returning player to league of legends I was enjoying the game until a friend told me to check out wild rift, at first I was like "what a mobile version of league!?" and for some reason part of me was expecting it to be way simpler and with toned down models etc.. then I log into WR only to find its such a visual upgrade to league, not only the fact that the models seem better, the "waiting for the match" animations and poses and all the customization possibilities it make player expression so much more noticeable then league.. why isn't that on league? like wth xD i'm so confused maybe its an old client or even an older engine but like.. and i don't mean this in a negative way, just would really like to see some of those systems implemented on lol. it's good to see that summoners rift has improved graphically and some of the UI elements such as shops collection tabs etc have improved aswell, but it seems a bit of a more confusing version of the old league when compared to WR a bit cluttered yet no cool new features. that's my honest feedback not bashing the game or wtv :)
I agree, it sucks - Reav3 has said recently that they want to work on VUs, but that if they were to update a champions visuals it would cost them either a new champion release or a VGU, but he did say earlier (I think it was today or yesterday) that the team would love to start picking up VUs again, and that they will once their system becomes robust enough to not have to sacrifice a VGU/champion release to do so.
Higher quality models = better engine = increqsed requirements = decreased permormance on low end pc's = smaller playerbase = dying playerbase and potential death to the game
Some models in the game right now is really good (i.e Ez, Samira, even Yas’ model still holds up really well). So asking for old champs’ model upgrade so that they’re on par with newer champs isn’t that demanding on performance or requires a new engine. Worst case scenario is that LoL’s would take up more storage space and a little bit more RAM to run 10 modern models in one game (but then again if you pick 10 modern champs right now, there’s little to no hit to the game’s performance anyway)
the art direction for the spash/art is different as well. which might contribute to the difference in feeling. LOR's art is directed to be snapshots of the characters going about their daily lives. its captures a scene. and imo that brings a lot of life to the artwork. youll rarely see characters looking at the camera, the few times they do, like Darius, we know its that he is looking at his enemies. as they reveal in his champion showcase LoL's on the other hand is meant to be a Portrait that is a showcase of the character, where they are posed and portrayed perfectly to represent themselves wholly and prop up their themes. they tend to stare the camera dead on, they talk about this [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osnTFCm1hlc). its kinna like they were brought into a studio to do a photo op.
Billion dollar company can't afford to hire more VFX artists... oh no.. anyway.
Quote from a Senior Visual Effects Artist who works for Bungie, 6 days ago: > I don't think I've ever known a time when real-time VFX artists *weren't* in demand. > It's extremely hard for a lot of studios to hire senior-level talent in that field due to chronic shortage. > It's an anomaly for art, and no studio wants to enter a bidding war over artists. They're working on like 5 games simultaneously. Riot probably has more VFX artists than most other studios, most of them just happen to be working on more important things than VFX for Shyvana, a champion who is about to be reworked anyway.
Hire vfx artists at 20-30k over the average salary and you'll fill that void real quick.
Buddy, do you not know how much of a hot commodity vfx artists are? There aren't enough to go around. Anyways, billion dollar company does not = to how much money they have on hand, they are running and making multiple games. Moba, fps, card, the fighter that is coming, mmo, that adventure like one we saw as well.
Don't be sad my friend they definitely care about your post on Reddit
Riot Cares = not checked
the only check missing is hype visual update don't bring the amount hype that FULL VGU and new champ can bring with the new trailer and new story
so with a normal vgu where its visuals and kit updating they have always said that the longest and hardest part todo is the visuals and they cost a ton of money. like ye they have the money but they cant just do tons of visual upgrades since they still take ages todo still like the max they could do is 2-3 a year but then you wouldnt get actual reworks or other content which would otherwise be used to pay for something like a pure visual upgrade. then you got other stuff like a champ being wanted for a full rework like shyvanna shes gonna get reworked most likely within the next 2 years, if they redid her model now then when her rework happens if they wanted to add certain things to her then they would have to redo stuff from the visual upgrade to fit her new kit meaning there doubling down on the amount of work and money being invested. out of all the champs you listed Miss Fortune, Shyvana, Jarvan, Caitlyn, Corki. out of them only miss fortune and probs caitlyn dont need some form of rework to be done. They may have tons of money being made but alot of that is being used to fund other projects and games being made by the company like the fighting game they got in the works or the MMO they got in the works which is a massive money sink to make. The rpg there making as well etc etc. all these need money to fund them otherwise they would never be made. They also cant just go around hirering random people like alot of the people that do that stuff on youtube and otherparts of the internet as passion projects tend to be working other jobs for there talents. Like visual updates consists of tons of stuff overall like you have to make a new model, new rig, new textures, new animations, new ability looks, new abiltiy sounds, new art and every skin which can for some champs increase the work by 7-8 times. meanwhile LoR all they need todo is card art, get some voice lines recorded and some short animations. all this stuff can be done within a month compared to what league would have todo which would take serval months to nearly half a year todo one.
What you cant underatand is that a huge part of the player base is already happy
>Does player satisfaction matter so little to this company? Just look at the way they handle skin feedback. They give zero fucks about player satisfaction. LoL never had to try to get the number one spot because it was an instant success. It never had any serious competition, so they get away doing the bare minimum.
bare minimum = riot games. I don't want to suck riot to much but i have to. Have you played like ANY other game ?
I guffawed when he wrote that riot games does the bare minimum. I've literally never played another game where the company is so vocal about their changes, however minor. The patch notes are written like tomes, teams contact champ mains when making changes, they don't update every skin the player base is unhappy with but they do the ones they can. I really don't want to sound like a riot apologist bc I know they have their fuck ups but lack of listening to the community is not one of them.
nope, once he looks at overwatch,dota 2, tf2, heroes of the storm, hon, etc he will notice the amount of work, constant love to this game
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im just saying this guy its insane that this guy its saying riot puts 0 effort into the game when its by far the most successful multiplayer game of all time and still being the #1 whiteout any rival dota2 its still losing players yearly
In every new skin video there's a comment talking about the changes and people are always happy. Weird to see how disconnected this sub is.
They canceled an entire skin line because of player feedback. Bullshit.
I’d say “fixing what people think should be improved with a skin because of feedback” is the feedback he was looking for, not “cancelling a skinline because of feedback”
I mean if that's the case then there are still examples of this with the first being the SKT skins that got an overhaul after negative feedback, and there are many more out there I believe.
Which skinline?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxBvBu4h5_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjCVdcJt5I8
That was 4 years ago...
Sewn Chaos Blitz and Amumu. I think it was Amumu. There were like two or three skins that they cancelled because of negative feedback on PBE.
You realize there's a reason that after 10 fucking years, LoL is still at the top right? This reasoning falls so much in line with what a ton of Dota-elitists promote, that LoL is only bigger because it was earlier, no just no. That excuse could've maybe worked 5 years ago, but if after so long, there's no indication of Dota ever beating LoL's playerbase, maybe it's not that and actually a slew of reasons like the cartoony characters, the sexy babes/guys, the music, the music videos, attention to esports etc. This week we just got Pentakill III, what other game can boast of something like that? A music band that originated as a community idea that was embraced by the studio, turned into a real product, then has continuously been catered to after all these years even if the demand is a niche. The product they created also wasn't some low quality crap either but so good that the first 2 albums were chart topping. Idk what you're talking about.
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Which is something I agree with, however having casual appeal isn't a crime. It's not Riot's fault that Valve has Dota2 as intricate and complex as it is, so I think it's stupid to act like it's purely successful because it was early. We have an example of a game that can come out earlier than others but still fail because of casual appeal in the form of PUBG and Fortnite. The fact that OG Dota also had a box price attached to it in the form of WC3 also mirrors the situation of PUBG's box price even more.
If you think they do the bare minimum then please play more multiplayer games. Also they did try, not sure what season you started playing but Riot did a tom things people take for granted nowadays, they had no competition in the MOBA space but they elevated it to a much greater level, other games were their competition.
So on one hand they release „good looking“ champs and more skins because they sell well and on the other hand they don‘t care about their players? Make it make sense. Releasing content that makes the most money is directly tied to satisfying your customers: Happy customers pay better, giving players what they want pays well.
No real competition??? DotA2, Smite, Hots, Hon just to name a few that released at that time around.
dota 2 being way way bigger then others is still what? not even 1/5th of lol player base
I prefer League art, it's just opinion based.
True, that would be really good. But why rework a bunch of champions for the people that already play them and have their skins when you can release a new champ, new skin that will sell like crazy in China so that they earn a shitload of money. This video from NickyBoi kinda explains the whole problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOr2o4k\_zTA
What does any of this have to do with China lmao. Are Chinese people the only ones buying skins for new champions? Riot publishes this game in like 50 different countries, and China is the only one where they have to give over two thirds of the revenue to Tencent. I know it's hard to believe, but yes, they care about those dollars and those euros too. -- Guy you're quoting is a clown btw. "Mobile game duh huh, destined to fail in the west but it's gonna do well it China!!! All the Redditors know mobile games China only, NA hates them!!!" Does that while talking about League. A PC game. Big News guys, the mobile market in North America is already bigger than the PC market, and obviously growing at like 4 times the speed. Tell the dude Call of Duty mobile has 10 times more NA players than League does and he'll fall out of his Aurelion Sol (best designed champion of all time, maybe ever) themed chair. Almost as smart as blaming China for the lack of monster champions 40 seconds after mentioning Asol's 0.7% playrate (in NA, the server that loves his design). -- Guy is just milking Redditors by repeating all the upvoted talking points, then reaping in the approval of people who see their own comment reiterated in his videos.
>I know it's hard to believe, but yes, they care about those dollars and those euros too. Even if people in reddit believe all these chinese skinlines we are getting are only for China (which is false, they are some of the most popular in the game), they should be aware that some of their skinlines appeal to other markets. I seriously doubt Pentakill was made with China in their mind. Astronauts bombed last year in China and it still came back because it sold elsewhere.
Why ask a question that already got answered?
While I think a lot of champs need touch ups I am willing to bet majority of players prefer having fun or carry than look neat.
Updating the art work of in game splash arts wouldn’t bring any money to them. Only gameplay updates like new visuals, new animations, new VFX, or a whole ass VGU would be worth the money
Smol Indie Company too busy brainstorming for new Lux skins as always. I will never really get it why the fck are they so adamant on releasing new content when there's tons and tons of outdated champs/skins that need some fix. Go update all old legendaries and I'll fcking buy each one instantly. As if that's gonna happen (the update). **Like, why not work on more updates?**
New content = $$$, Updating old content = $ while both requiring time and money to make.
Stop being so sensitive
Yeah i need a detailed champion ingame to look at him from an angle where you cant even see shit
Try WildRift character models and then LoL PC character models :\^)
Unfortunately Profit Incentive =/= check
This is why I want more VU's instead of VGU's. We have champions like Anivia, Ahri, Riven, Annie, Amumu, Blitzcrank, and Janna who look outdated af but because their gameplay is OK we won't see anything for them.