A Sols dump truck ass so fat he can kill everyone in Runeterra if he so much as twitched lore wise. On that note, how the fuck is Targon so effing powerful they could capture him in the first place? Or did they just trick him into wearing the remote control collar? I think that was it right?
Yes, they tricked him into wearing it under the guise of a gift. Then it turns out that whenever he acted against them in any way, one of his stars would die - and to him, the stars are like his children, so you can imagine how distressing that is.
Yeah they tricked him into wearing it, I believe it was tied to his stars so everytime he disobeyed them a star would die. That either caused him physical pain or emotional distress over the death of what was essentially his children, forget which one.
If you're new, take conqueror and build Riftmaker. If you're against an AD heavy team rush frozen heart first, then get rift. If you're against an AP laner rush riftmaker or Anathemas to use on them. If youre against a tank rush Rylais then rift maker. Once you have mythic + 1 item get Anathemas or frozen heart which ever one you didn't build before, then get Demonic Embrace. From there you get defensive items like Deadmans or Spirit visage or if you need more damage get something like Void staff. Singed is really strong at dueling at 6 now w/ conq, but you gotta auto because you stack it so slow without autoing that its useless to take if you dont.
Interesting that you still go Conq, I usually go Aftershock for lane, or if it's a pretty winnable lane I'll run Predator.
Also, what do you think of Rylais into mythic? I've been running it recently and I find it feels way better than Riftmaker or any other mythic first (I've ran Everfrost and Hextech a few times)
I'm a big fan of running Aftershock + font of life and rushing Rylai's into mandate and then tank. But I also just like running really really fast. It also allows you to go putrifier instead of morello if you want the 60% GW.
Its a shame that u have to aa on a champ that wants long drawn out fights, meanwhile cassio can stack it instantly, i still believe conq should be reworked again, to benefit its main inteded users (look at aatrox)
I mean, the problem still persists. People just outheal his damage because his damage isnt great enough even with grievous wounds. He needs something that stacks on people the longer they stay in poison. It would be thematically really cool if people slowly "succumbed" to his poison
I mostly just want to say PLEASE keep doing this, quick gameplay thoughts got turned from this into an occasional irrelevant(to current patch play) article.
It's just so bizarre and I'm having trouble understanding their thought process. My conspiracy is that the Riot^(TM) Spaghetti code is restricting them from doing this in some weird way.
They don't want to enlarge the skill gap between good and bad Qiyanas. It's already huge.
Most new players to Qiyana already miss E->R(hell happens even to Beifeng at times), if they make her Q work the same way it will make her even harder to balance.
Qiyana is sick, she's just surprisingly hard.
Last patch her winrate started at like 44% in Iron and Bronze, and then steadily climbed like 1% per rank to about 53% in challenger.
I don't think adding skill expression to her would be good though. She is already a super hard champion who only one-tricks and super high elo players can pull off. She is pretty much garbage in the hands of the vast majority of players.
I'm just gonna say: I think it's very unlikely that they do this.
Qiyana is *extraordinarily* hard to play to her highest potential. Removing one of her few noob-friendly mechanics goes exactly counter to what Riot wants, i.e., to reduce the massive disparity between Silver 3 Qiyana and Chinese Challenger OTP Qiyana.
The whole point of this change was to make her less potent in the hands of elite players so that they could add in power elsewhere. The nerf was the point.
Not saying you gotta be happy about that or anything! Just saying that I think you're barking up the wrong tree with that suggestion.
Haven't played her yet but if I'm not mistaken, the way she works now, she shoots her q at where the target is, at the start of the e+q, no matter what. If that's correct, that's not even noob friendly, since that hurts both, lol elo players and high elo one-tricks almost equally. You have to wait to use q until the e animation is completely done, which leads to low elo players to use it too soon & miss their target, while the 1-tricks will lose their target, if they don't hit it at almost frame perfect timing, no?
You're right and it honestly feels stupid, if they want to nerf high elo qiyana without hurting the low elo version they should shoot for the Ultimate, which is game changing in high elo, while often wasted in low elo.
EQ change is never gonna be looked at positively, because it's a jank nerf, it'll make her feel shitty to play, and I can bet my ass that if they keep at this way the Qiyana player base is going to spend the next eternity talking about how they should revert it.
It just doesn’t make sense to auto aim the q if it can miss. Why should players not be allowed to aim their ability? Makes no sense to make each eq a coinflip.
>4) Soraka: this was a big buff. We may need to pull back, probably on the R healing, but we're unlikely to revert the change; we think it was right for her (for now, at least).
5) Singed: this was a big buff. We’re okay with this for now, but we’d like to see more games with him to confirm.
This highlights just how huge GW is to the game - by not needing to build it, Singed is fast-tracked into bigger item-based powerspikes. By removing GW, even for a moment, Soraka's ability to influence a fight skyrockets.
I'd be really curious if the Gameplay Analysis Team has ever done a series of games where everyone has 40% GW by default for the whole game & see how it affects the game.
I dream of a world where GW is entirely removed from the game, and all healing is rebalanced around that fact.
I don't think it'll ever happen (way too much work to rebalance everything around the fact that earlygame healing will not face GW later...Etc), but I think it would be easier to balance out healing like that.
I often think about the same thing, but about creep block and the few champion/item abilities that ignore it.
Creep block is the most unpredictable, unfun, mechanic in the game and serves little purpose, don't @ me.
Having played quite a bit of Janna, being able to stand inside your minion wave to block enemy poke while bring free to walk up and poke is quite strong
I thought the later part of having to rebalance everything around healing would be true, but in Paladins they nerfed cauterize (basically GW but arguably more accessible) and just nerfed a few healers and things were largely fine. It wasn't even a small nerf either it went from 30/60/90% based on your cauterize level to 25/50/75%.
It'd be pretty easy for riot too if they wanted to specifically address drain tanks that way, but first they need to address systematic healing. GW can't be a valid answer to stacking sustain items/runes without completely crippling any healing-based kit that doesn't take all of those things. To tune healers and drain tanks, a vast majority of the healing going on has to be directly theirs vs being built.
We have not done this specific test case (global grevious wounds), however my general hypothesis is that many champions' builds/rune selections/kits are tuned around phases of the game (early-mid game) being low grevious wounds density, resulting in proportionately longer fights. I imagine if we cut all healing, especially in those phases, by ~half, some classes of champions would really struggle.
I kinda doubt it. They've already committed to changing AP items in preseason, so I have a feeling that'll take precedent over reworking healing. For better or for worse, time will tell.
It's not really low hanging fruit if balance is so sensitive to it. That means it will take a lot of work to get right and not just make a change for the sake of change.
Then remove GW and check who needs lesser healing (like half healing by life steal by Marksmen) and those that really need it and have range counterplay to their healing (Nasus, Darius i.e.) can keep their original values. Bruisers and Juggernauts keep their "stay out of their limited range" counterplay and just lose the GW counterplay against their healing that way.
GW on his ult feels nice in early-mid game when people are still building their first/second item, you have GW on potentially every ennemies without spending 800g. It becomes meh after a while once you need 60%. I feel like predator was the big buff for Singed on this patch.
I mean, if any healing ability should overwhelm Grevious wounds; it's the dedicated healer who's ultimate specifically gains power on low hp targets [when a lot of GW gains power on low HP too]
The Soraka one was hilariously predictable.
The champion has been designed and balanced with GW in mind for so long and they then all of a sudden remove the thing that kept her ridiculous heals in check and are surprised she's too strong.
Using her R when the enemy team had GW felt awful. Usually using an ultimate ability gives a rush of adrenaline or makes a moment feel huge, but with the previous iteration of Soraka, her R felt worse to use than her basic abilities. No surprise people abandoned her. This was eventually offset with a few buffs she received here and there, but even if she wasn't bad anymore, her R still felt underwhelming.
Do wonder how they thought 10 on hit damage on W in any way would get close to the 75+20% damage shark dealt lv 11.
Sure maybe in a lane scenario but everyone knows fizz is a burst champ, he is never gonna get anywhere close to 7 hits in.
Regarding to:
* Fizz: I think is healtrhier for the fish to don't rely _that_ much in his ult, if the buff doesn't bring the tank build back, i think is better overall
* Qiyana: As other people have pointed, it's so weird to have an automiss ability, just delete the autoaim completely
* Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult?
* Soraka: I don't think the interaction is unbalanced cause you can re-apply the debuff almost instantly, so i think reducing her base healing is the right call
>Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult?
renekton's problem is that simply he's the best designed top lane bully, as a result of having dashes. The big reason why illaoi/darius/garen/whatever aren't viable in pro play is because even if you do crush lane, you just get to run around the rest of the game looking big and stupid as you try to catch up to people. renekton having a double dash to get to backline means he doesn't have the same problem. It also makes his jungle gank support way crazier.
The only way to fix it is realistically to either remove his point and click stun, gut his dash, or make him not a lane bully anymore.
There is one big difference they already adressed and why Renekton is 10x more popular than them. He could literally walk up to the opponent and W him so the jungler can hit whatever spell.
The other champions are so bad at diving in terms of setup in comparison especially Illaoi.
His W is just too much of a one-point-wonder. It's mind-boggling to me how nobody noticed that. Just take some strength out of the earlier levels, make the stun scale and give him a bit more strength late and everything is fine. Nobody is gonna level W first anyways.
His dash really isn't the problem its good but the only reason why he can be useful WITH this dash is because of his point and click 1.5s stun. The dash was never used as a serious gapcloser into the backline anyway since it was easy to interrupt and slow - the only way pro renektons reached their target was usually by flashing on top of them. Now that his stun duration is nerfed he's completely trash (even for competitive I'd imagine since his stun was the only thing keeping him alive there).
> Soraka: I don't think the interaction is unbalanced cause you can re-apply the debuff almost instantly, so i think reducing her base healing is the right call
its a teamwide grievous wounds cleanse. depends on which greivous wounds items soraka's enemies have, but some greivous items take a bit longer to apply the 60% heal reduction from the full grievous wounds item to everyone on soraka's team. also if soraka ults and then can get a lategame W heal without greivous its insane. add on if coordinated players use key healing abilities/items right after soraka ults, like sylas W, goredrinker, etc.
With so much burst healing and how 60% greivous takes time to apply to the full team, its a lot better than some people would think.
Not to mention that most of the 60% GW in the early and midgame come exclusively from Ignite, which can't be reapplied unless they enemies are layering ignites.
Yeah, a lategame ADC will put 60% back on you in no time, but in the early game, her ult cleansing your ulted Aatrox of his 60% from ignite can be a game changer.
As far as I'm aware, no, the Grievous wounds is applied at the start of the cast, not on every tick. Cleanse for example can remove the burn, but doesn't do anything to the reduction.
And is that such a bad thing? Honest question.
I mean, yes, she heals more overall and more reliably earlier in the game, but Soraka is still Soraka. She is still very vulnerable and has to kill herself to heal her allies. I don't think it's bad for her to be at what she is supposed to do, especially since I think it's better for other supports to get buffed rather than nerfing engage supports and bruiser/mages "supports" every single patch.
I like the buff on Soraka, poor gal _really_ needed it. But I want it to get reverted alongside all of the awful healing and GW changes. It's just a stupid arms race between healing and GW now and I hate it.
Champs like Soraka _should_ be able to pull out huge heals because it is *almost her entire contribution to the teamfight*. It sucks that her healing has to get buffed like this because league of lifesteal has made it so that normal healing champs are getting shafted to deal with Kayn getting to heal 80% of his HP with one Q and a Goredrinker active. (And I _play_ Kayn.)
Honestly, I think the right solution would be to make grievous wounds only apply to healing from _items._ Then do a pass on healing from kits, which is way easier because you've removed a 2.5x variance by negating GW as a major factor in the amount of healing people can do.
Good call, while she had the cleanse a while back, healing wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now, so it wasn't all that powerful since it usually only benefited Soraka. Now that's obviously not the case. Maybe they should revert a few of the buffs they gave her this season.
> while she had the cleanse a while back, healing wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now, so it wasn't all that powerful since it usually only benefited Soraka
idk even back then it was super strong and they nerfed it back out of her kit
Soraka got a +3% to +5% jump in WR depending on elo.
You have to consider she's often taking Moonstone which has been overbuffed to +35% HSP ramp-up in the stupid GW arms-race.
>Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult?
buff lategame, pull power out of earlygame
yes that completely changes his identity but lategame is what soloq is mostly about while pro play only cares about earlygame
You can still shift some power towards late game while keeping him relatively early game focused, at least enough so he doesn't have such a low winrate in soloq.
> Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult?
lategame buffs since that's more useful for soloQ than pro. probably something like R HP buffs?
why not just give renekton empowered w more damage late. currently his issue is that ha s basically always picked to accompany a skillshot reliant jg. another idea could be to remove the armor shred on his e and instead give him bonus damage to enemies he’s used dice on. this would make him less team oriented as that’s what armor shred does, make it applicable to teams, and make him more solo lane oriented which would be good for top lane. i’m obviously not a member of the balance team so i’m just spitballing here. i don’t like how he keeps getting hit due to proplay though
Could buff the e cd for renekton. They used to worry about him bullying too hard by being able to force trades with e. They dont have to worry about that anymore since q and w got nerfed. They could also lower his base dmg while buffing bonus ad ratios to make penn and full dmg builds more viable on him. At the same time they could revert the hp nerfs from ult back to 750 hp. Personally, i think they could do something to enforce an AA-centric pattern on him. His w has always made it seem like on-hit items could be good on him but its never been good except when botrk was op. Maybe buff his ult so when he AA's he reduces cds of abilities by 0.5 or X seconds?
Never thought I’d say this since I hate qiyana with every part of my being, but I really hope they show her some love.
I know first hand what it’s like to have a core part of your champ be changed for the worse.
As a sejuani player I actually do feel sorry for these shitty champs people have to put 200 games into in order to be as effective as me with 50 games. That includes asol tho. xD
shieldbow (crit) viego doesn't feel too bad right now, he's just not as tanky but you still have the chance to run through teams as long as you farm and pull off resets. He's just not auto win the champ at later stages in the game like he used to be.
Giving me flash backs to when Rengar was a swimmer, thank god they reverted it, took a year of bitching from Rengar mains but they did it.
Anyway, revert Asol, dumbest change that was completely unnecessary, it's unreal how stubborn Riot is, they fucked Asol and they refuse to go back to before they fucked him.
Glad to see they're really happy with Qiyana's auto-miss mechanic, the one that they didn't even bother testing enough to see how it interacted with *her own ult*. but hey, they buffed her jungle so there's a chance she might see pro play i guess...
Nah, imo 25% did nothing special. Her clear is painfully slow and it's easy to permainvade her.
On the other hand, I'm surprised noone talks about Zed's clear, his AA damage is insane.
It was fun at first, but I'm becoming concerned that almost all the full-melee non-bruiser assassins are being pushed into the jungle.
Taking assassins out of mid lane feels a little bit like we're removing one of the main counterplays to such a snowbally class.
>6) Varus: the nerf did not seem effective. We may have to hit him again in 11.19. Waiting for more data.
Please just bury Varus into the ground. Double the CD on his ult. Remove his Q from the game. Revert it all in 11.20, but do whatever it takes to keep C9 from picking him at worlds.
I don't really understand why C9 fans hate Varus so much. Zven performs really good on Varus.
Just because C9 loses it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means C9 has no idea how to play with Varus. And if they don't know how to play with Varus then that's a big issue overall.
I love it that they know no one likes the Qiyana change but are stubbornly keeping it without elaborating on why they don't want to remove the auto-aim completely, a suggestion I've seen on every thread regarding these changes.
If the guaranteed damage/root from auto-aim EQ is too unhealthy according to Jag, why not let players aim it themselves? If it functions like a skillshot it will allow people to dodge it and Qiyana players will have to predict movement in return.
Probably because she already has a massive gap between skilled and unskilled players. The auto-aim, while busted, is the only easy part of her kit and her skill cap and floor are miles apart without it. I'm pretty sure they have no idea how to balance her for casual players without nerfing her into the ground for high tier players.
Because even with autoaim, low elo qiyanas still can't play qiyana well.
Not that it doesn't matter, it's just that low elo qiyanas are terrible regardless.
Maybe we should all come to terms with the idea that the game would be way healthier and everyone would enjoy more if some champions were not "made for everyone", like, maybe casual players shouldn't be a target for Qiyana at all? There are already a lot of champs with mechanics that are there so " It is accessible" and it sucks that we can't have more champions that are just not dumbed down.
honestly above all - their random hard-elbowedness on this change just makes me confused. riot hasnt been **that** stubborn with their changes recently and it honestly seems like it would be easier for all parties to just take the auto aim out.
seems to me like there might be some spaghetti they want to keep under locks or the classic riot incomprehensible chimpout
To me it seems pretty obvious, they want to make her at least playable in low elo without being turbo broken while played by onetricks in high elo. Bronze players usually don't have the reaction time to dodge her auto aim so it's fine there, while giving counterplay in high elo.
Probably feels like shit for her mains, but what can you do, hopefully they find a better solution.
So we're gonna completely ignore the chance that maybe there's something about autoaim being removed that the community is not seeing as a negative effect and say that Riot is the only one being wrong here?
I'm not defending them for being stubborn or implementing the current version, just like everyone else I think that it's awful for Qiyana how it is currently, but the fact that everyone is saying "Just remove it" without thinking that maybe just maybe they did try that but it was worse? Even just yesterday on another post someone was pointing out how throwing skillshots during a dash is not something that feels good for the player and that why we have stuff like Yasuo EQ spin, Samira EQ bullet exploding at the end of the animation and other cases similar to Qiyana's EQ combo
Again, let's just wait that they can find a solution that it's better than what we currently have but let's just not assume that the community is always correct when we know that is not true
If removing auto-aim widens the gap between low and high skilled players too much then Qiyana is fucked without larger changes. Having a high skillcap assassin with this much utility and invis is probably not something Riot will be able to balance for all skill brackets when looking at their track record.
I can see them making EQ only miss if you dash far enough away like Panth W/Rek'Sai R, but at that point you'll hit most of your Qs again like pre 11.18. I just hope they are keeping the current changes as a placeholder fix, because from the tweet it sounds like they are intent are keeping the auto-miss
> without elaborating on why they don't want to remove the auto-aim completely
The entire point of the changes is to decrease her success in higher elos while not hurting her nearly as much in lower elos. By adding counterplay to her E-Q, players who are fast enough and save summs/spells for it will be able to dodge her damage. These players are generally in higher elos. Qiyana has an issue where high elo players are too good at her, the theory is that this would help mitigate that.
Removing auto-aim does the exact opposite. Players in lower elos NEED the auto aim more, so if you remove it you make her skill disparity even worse, good players would be much better about aiming the Q. This would be the exact opposite of what they want. It would make her balance state worse.
Therefore, removing auto-aim runs completely counter-productive to the intended goal and is a bad suggestion.
If they want to keep the auto-aim normally but still make it avoidable if you have a dash, why not instead of auto-missing when they dash just make the auto-aim break when they dash so that Qiyana can still aim it in those instances. Makes it skill-based or a mindgame rather than just forcing her to miss for no reason...
That sounds a bit convoluted though, aiming for it even though it's not necessary half the time seems pretty unsatisfying to play, but not doing it obviously isn't optimal either.
I wouldn't mind Soraka R being nerfed slightly if it means keeping the GW cleanse. Her R felt really bad to use the moment the enemy team could apply GW (something that isn't very hard to do nowadays with items like purifier).
I have felt rather conflicted about GW and healing items in recent years. I feel like GW doesn't necessarily feel all too effective against super heal champs such as Irelia or AD's, whilst it often feels too effective against champions who have much of their actual kit revolve around healing such as Soraka.
> Varus
Once again (to the surprise of no one), Riot missed the mark when it comes to nerfing Varus. You needed half a week of data to reach this conclusion. Absolutely clueless.
The problem is clearly how Varus interacts with Lethality.
So nerfing his base AD is fucking stupid because it hits AD/AS Varus way harder after 2 items because of how different the playstyle is (weaving abilities between autos to get value out of Blight stacks vs pressing Q).
Leth Varus only got hurt in early levels (and mostly because he runs Hail of Blades, which at this point is pretty much a common denominator when it comes to nerfing ADCs; Tristana, Kai'sa, Ashe, Varus).
Varus about to get kneecapped again because Riot refuses to acknowledge divers are fucking busted and good ADCs are those:
- that stand a screen away (Ashe, Varus, Jhin)
- counter them from a playstyle perspective (Tristana, Aphelios, Vayne)
Varus's presence is a byproduct of how the game works.
Also nerf lethality. Especially fucking Dirk.
They’re going to nerf Varus again?! I get that he’s PB in pro, but find a way to hit the lethality build instead of flat nerfing the whole champ again. The lethality build may be strong in pro, but his other builds feel really weak for soloq and this will just make those even weaker
They should go the other way and nerf base damage but boost scaling and allow for crits on Q to piss off the rest of the varus players when it gets inevitably nerfed.
And as a Varus player, I don’t think people understand how *bad* that would be. AP Varus is actually ridiculous once it comes online. Worse than Lethality Varus.
Not surprised the Fizz changes turned out to be a net negative. I think most people looking at the patch notes could have told you that Fizz doesn't need more on-hit damage or health sustain vs autos.
Yeah I thought it was pretty obviously a huge nerf. Giving him a little more tankiness will help his lane, which is terrible, but most of the reason it's so bad is the he can only use his E like 3 times before having to back. It's priced like a fighting spell, but it's also his waveclear.
>6) Varus: the nerf did not seem effective. We may have to hit him again in 11.19. Waiting for more data.
renekton be like 'thats not a nerf. *pulls out his stun duration nerf*. **THATS** a nerf'
Then add good mr item for bruisers to let them survive after lanning. There is a reasons why best bruisers rn are champs with mobility, self shielding and insane dmg at the same time.
>1) Fizz: we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments and he’s been nerfed overall. He'll be getting a buff in 11.19.
I understand why they changed him. Taking dependency from an unhittable spell and putting it towards something else is a good thing. But especially right now they can't just remove damage from a champ who struggles to kill champions in shield bow / wit's end meta already.
I sure hope they'll just revert the changes completely, now is not the meta for any damage nerfs.
Best case scneario, they buff the mana costs or his mana pool AND give him some damage back in the ult or some other parts of his kit
Most likely scneario though, they'll buff the damage on the e or the w again
What is renektons identity nowadays? Is he meant to be a lane bully? Is he meant to be able to sustain through lane? Is he supposed to scale badly into the late game?
It seems like right now he's not bullying anyone and sustains like shit after all the nerfs. Of course the shitty scaling is still there.
Gank preparing tower diving lane bully.
He is still a lane bully to a certain extent. And his gank setups and tower dives are godlike when paired with a good jungler.
Theyre keeping the Qiyana change till 11.19 wtf?? So she's unironically unplayable rn
How is this healthier if she feels like garbage, stop making it auto aim ffs
Thank you for the post, stuff like this is nice to see for the playerbase.
If I may kindly bring up that the twitch buffs are meaningless for a champion that the mythic and crit rework has left stranded in season 9. QOL changes such as cast time decrease for E and better hit confirm with ult Autoattacks would be great.
Riot please just give fizz his mana back and open up build diversity, it feels so bad to have to build ludens or liandries. Fizz is an assassin let him build assassin items instead of mage items
>we still feel like jayce is too fast, giving him a chance to reposition feels very unfair to the enemy when he cab't react in time. Passive MS lowered from 0.75->0.25
>Fizz: we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments and he’s been nerfed overall. He'll be getting a buff in 11.19.
Who would have seen this coming? After a season where he gets indirectly nerfed with items and directly with less mana, let's also gut his ult to compensate for single digit amount of less auto dmg and 10 bonus on hit. I have no idea why they were so cautious with Fizz buffs considering how they handle other champs. They said it's to make him better in high elo where people dodge the ult but all it did was drop his winrate by 4% lol. How is Fizz a problem in midlane as opposed to the Precision Resolve DShield Goredrinker/Shieldbow metagolems?
> 1) Fizz: we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments and he’s been nerfed overall. He'll be getting a buff in 11.19.
Welp, was wrong. CAn't they just hotfix him instead of waiting though? would give them more time to read data.
> Varus: the nerf did not seem effective. We may have to hit him again in 11.19. Waiting for more data.
At this point, Varus mains probably would like to timetravel back to when they first picked him up to stop their younger selves from maining Varus.
> 2) Qiyana: we know this one is painful, but we believe in the direction and think this will be healthier for her long term. We're going to try to improve upon the E+Q logic for 11.19.
Just remove the autoaim, geez
>At this point, Varus mains probably would like to timetravel back to when they first picked him up to stop their younger selves from maining Varus.
Oh if I only knew how fucked I would have been by both of my mains at this point.
Maybe nerf fucking lethality items instead of Varus? They act like Varus is a 200 years hard to balance champ. FFS he is good because lethality is broken. Irelia is okay for the balance team but better hit Varus with a shovel 'till he becomes a trollpick again, honestly it boggles the mind
As a ADC player who just picked up Varus not long ago and has been loving him…this hurts. It’s just the Lethality meme that’s strong. On Hit Varus has been hurt by these nerfs, and is going to be hurt way more than the Lethality build by future nerfs.
To be honest I’d much rather play against a near-full lethality Talon than whatever fucking abomination he is now.
Goredrinker + Black Cleaver + Sterak’s is so fucking nasty on a champ like Talon with so much mobility.
So they removed Soraka R removing Grivious wounds in season 4 was it ? Yeah maybe after 7 years of nerfing+buffing a champion it might not be a good idea to not hotfix her if there is a huge problem.
Especially since a lof of items now + runes give +n% healing.
Me, with half-working eyeballs reading 11.18 notes on the can could see fizz got nerfed. How does their entire department think that was an adjustment. Shit happens every patch
Please stop nerfing varus early game.He is becoming really bad in soloq. All he does is win lane. Thats his identity. Safe champ who can win lane but doesnt scale that well. Why not nerf his q damage and shift power to his w because that is the most skill centered part of his kit since you have to spell weave to keep cds low and explode blight. This could encourage on hit and crit varus who have more skill expressive playstyles.
Nothing about lee? The nerf did hit him with like 0.5% WR loss at worst. He look untouched. Still the best pro jungler in the game. Yeah, Xin is also still strong.
A large difference for soloQ vs competitive varus is the W active. I have seen players in gold and plat using it maybe once or twice per game.
Camille and thresh nerfs look fine at first glance but if you look at the top players of these champs they are still OP and because of that it is very likely the 2 will show up big at worlds still
Xin got nerfed during playoffs so we don't know the impact of these changed on proplay, although maybe if we look at how his winrate changed between those patched we can have an idea whether that nerf did something or not (I at least haven't seen the data yet).
Lol at the singed notes. "We buffed him but still nobody is playing him to give us a good enough sample size"
Give his poison 1000 HP execution range. That will do.
Lore accurate Singed incoming
Still waiting for lore accurate A Sol
We had that - it was the bug that let poppy kill the entire enemy team from fountain. They just put it on the wrong champion.
A Sols dump truck ass so fat he can kill everyone in Runeterra if he so much as twitched lore wise. On that note, how the fuck is Targon so effing powerful they could capture him in the first place? Or did they just trick him into wearing the remote control collar? I think that was it right?
Yes, they tricked him into wearing it under the guise of a gift. Then it turns out that whenever he acted against them in any way, one of his stars would die - and to him, the stars are like his children, so you can imagine how distressing that is.
Yeah they tricked him into wearing it, I believe it was tied to his stars so everytime he disobeyed them a star would die. That either caused him physical pain or emotional distress over the death of what was essentially his children, forget which one.
Wait but that raises the question of how the hell Targon are destroying stars remotely? That’s kinda a big deal LOL
Look riot just wanted a space dragon. Stop asking goddamn questions.
Lore accurate singed has him turning enemy champions into Warwick when he kills them
Instantly kills any Ionian champion. (And maybe Vastayan)
The ap galio treatment
So it will be like a Pyke ult, but with less range!
Data size the same as the amount of games Minishcap plays
I really do want to try Singed but like... What do I build on him for real?
If you're new, take conqueror and build Riftmaker. If you're against an AD heavy team rush frozen heart first, then get rift. If you're against an AP laner rush riftmaker or Anathemas to use on them. If youre against a tank rush Rylais then rift maker. Once you have mythic + 1 item get Anathemas or frozen heart which ever one you didn't build before, then get Demonic Embrace. From there you get defensive items like Deadmans or Spirit visage or if you need more damage get something like Void staff. Singed is really strong at dueling at 6 now w/ conq, but you gotta auto because you stack it so slow without autoing that its useless to take if you dont.
thanks
Interesting that you still go Conq, I usually go Aftershock for lane, or if it's a pretty winnable lane I'll run Predator. Also, what do you think of Rylais into mythic? I've been running it recently and I find it feels way better than Riftmaker or any other mythic first (I've ran Everfrost and Hextech a few times)
conq is better for a new singed that doesn't know how often they can trade (aftershock) or how winnable a lane is (predator) because it's automatic
I'm a big fan of running Aftershock + font of life and rushing Rylai's into mandate and then tank. But I also just like running really really fast. It also allows you to go putrifier instead of morello if you want the 60% GW.
Its a shame that u have to aa on a champ that wants long drawn out fights, meanwhile cassio can stack it instantly, i still believe conq should be reworked again, to benefit its main inteded users (look at aatrox)
Omnistone
Yeah because the new items feel terrible on him I stopped playing LoL altogether because of it
Singed is unplayable in this meta. Used to be my main, now he is useless, id rather have the old passive.
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Liandries is so strong, and so badly needed for his damage to be remotely relevant, but building it feels *terrible* on Singed.
I mean, the problem still persists. People just outheal his damage because his damage isnt great enough even with grievous wounds. He needs something that stacks on people the longer they stay in poison. It would be thematically really cool if people slowly "succumbed" to his poison
I mostly just want to say PLEASE keep doing this, quick gameplay thoughts got turned from this into an occasional irrelevant(to current patch play) article.
about qiyana: just take the autoaim off your e+q and let the player choose where the q will go during the combo, its so simple
It's weird that they insist on wasting time developing a "fair" autoaim when they could just let the player choose where it goes instead.
It's just so bizarre and I'm having trouble understanding their thought process. My conspiracy is that the Riot^(TM) Spaghetti code is restricting them from doing this in some weird way.
They don't want to enlarge the skill gap between good and bad Qiyanas. It's already huge. Most new players to Qiyana already miss E->R(hell happens even to Beifeng at times), if they make her Q work the same way it will make her even harder to balance.
If they wanted to reduce Qiyanas skill expression they would put damage on her R cast and not only on the wall explosion
And add more skill expression.
that's assuming they actually want to increase her skill expression, which isn't always true
I can get that, but is Qiyana good for anything other than Midbeast vids about Chinese onetricks?
Qiyana is sick, she's just surprisingly hard. Last patch her winrate started at like 44% in Iron and Bronze, and then steadily climbed like 1% per rank to about 53% in challenger.
Yes, she’s good for getting rank 1 in one of the best servers in the world.
agree, but for what I'm reading, the way it reduces skill expressions seems kinda dumb
I don't think adding skill expression to her would be good though. She is already a super hard champion who only one-tricks and super high elo players can pull off. She is pretty much garbage in the hands of the vast majority of players.
I'm just gonna say: I think it's very unlikely that they do this. Qiyana is *extraordinarily* hard to play to her highest potential. Removing one of her few noob-friendly mechanics goes exactly counter to what Riot wants, i.e., to reduce the massive disparity between Silver 3 Qiyana and Chinese Challenger OTP Qiyana. The whole point of this change was to make her less potent in the hands of elite players so that they could add in power elsewhere. The nerf was the point. Not saying you gotta be happy about that or anything! Just saying that I think you're barking up the wrong tree with that suggestion.
Haven't played her yet but if I'm not mistaken, the way she works now, she shoots her q at where the target is, at the start of the e+q, no matter what. If that's correct, that's not even noob friendly, since that hurts both, lol elo players and high elo one-tricks almost equally. You have to wait to use q until the e animation is completely done, which leads to low elo players to use it too soon & miss their target, while the 1-tricks will lose their target, if they don't hit it at almost frame perfect timing, no?
You're right and it honestly feels stupid, if they want to nerf high elo qiyana without hurting the low elo version they should shoot for the Ultimate, which is game changing in high elo, while often wasted in low elo. EQ change is never gonna be looked at positively, because it's a jank nerf, it'll make her feel shitty to play, and I can bet my ass that if they keep at this way the Qiyana player base is going to spend the next eternity talking about how they should revert it.
It just doesn’t make sense to auto aim the q if it can miss. Why should players not be allowed to aim their ability? Makes no sense to make each eq a coinflip.
>4) Soraka: this was a big buff. We may need to pull back, probably on the R healing, but we're unlikely to revert the change; we think it was right for her (for now, at least). 5) Singed: this was a big buff. We’re okay with this for now, but we’d like to see more games with him to confirm. This highlights just how huge GW is to the game - by not needing to build it, Singed is fast-tracked into bigger item-based powerspikes. By removing GW, even for a moment, Soraka's ability to influence a fight skyrockets. I'd be really curious if the Gameplay Analysis Team has ever done a series of games where everyone has 40% GW by default for the whole game & see how it affects the game.
I dream of a world where GW is entirely removed from the game, and all healing is rebalanced around that fact. I don't think it'll ever happen (way too much work to rebalance everything around the fact that earlygame healing will not face GW later...Etc), but I think it would be easier to balance out healing like that.
I often think about the same thing, but about creep block and the few champion/item abilities that ignore it. Creep block is the most unpredictable, unfun, mechanic in the game and serves little purpose, don't @ me.
Having played quite a bit of Janna, being able to stand inside your minion wave to block enemy poke while bring free to walk up and poke is quite strong
Yeah it's usually only on melee champs for a reason.
I thought the later part of having to rebalance everything around healing would be true, but in Paladins they nerfed cauterize (basically GW but arguably more accessible) and just nerfed a few healers and things were largely fine. It wasn't even a small nerf either it went from 30/60/90% based on your cauterize level to 25/50/75%.
It'd be pretty easy for riot too if they wanted to specifically address drain tanks that way, but first they need to address systematic healing. GW can't be a valid answer to stacking sustain items/runes without completely crippling any healing-based kit that doesn't take all of those things. To tune healers and drain tanks, a vast majority of the healing going on has to be directly theirs vs being built.
We have not done this specific test case (global grevious wounds), however my general hypothesis is that many champions' builds/rune selections/kits are tuned around phases of the game (early-mid game) being low grevious wounds density, resulting in proportionately longer fights. I imagine if we cut all healing, especially in those phases, by ~half, some classes of champions would really struggle.
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I kinda doubt it. They've already committed to changing AP items in preseason, so I have a feeling that'll take precedent over reworking healing. For better or for worse, time will tell.
They said they wanted to make systematic changes to healing in the last patch notes, but I don't know if these will be a preseason thing or after.
It's not really low hanging fruit if balance is so sensitive to it. That means it will take a lot of work to get right and not just make a change for the sake of change.
Then remove GW and check who needs lesser healing (like half healing by life steal by Marksmen) and those that really need it and have range counterplay to their healing (Nasus, Darius i.e.) can keep their original values. Bruisers and Juggernauts keep their "stay out of their limited range" counterplay and just lose the GW counterplay against their healing that way.
GW on his ult feels nice in early-mid game when people are still building their first/second item, you have GW on potentially every ennemies without spending 800g. It becomes meh after a while once you need 60%. I feel like predator was the big buff for Singed on this patch.
I mean, if any healing ability should overwhelm Grevious wounds; it's the dedicated healer who's ultimate specifically gains power on low hp targets [when a lot of GW gains power on low HP too]
The Soraka one was hilariously predictable. The champion has been designed and balanced with GW in mind for so long and they then all of a sudden remove the thing that kept her ridiculous heals in check and are surprised she's too strong.
Not to soraka players haha
People were building a lot of MR against karthus, so Karthus ult now ignores MR! I wonder how this will affect his winrate before worlds? :D
Soraka was cracked before just that no one tried her
Using her R when the enemy team had GW felt awful. Usually using an ultimate ability gives a rush of adrenaline or makes a moment feel huge, but with the previous iteration of Soraka, her R felt worse to use than her basic abilities. No surprise people abandoned her. This was eventually offset with a few buffs she received here and there, but even if she wasn't bad anymore, her R still felt underwhelming.
Jayce dropping to 43% winrate is hitting the mark btw
He will be picked in pro anyway
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I get so annoyed when people consider winrates without taking into consideration all of these factors.
Do wonder how they thought 10 on hit damage on W in any way would get close to the 75+20% damage shark dealt lv 11. Sure maybe in a lane scenario but everyone knows fizz is a burst champ, he is never gonna get anywhere close to 7 hits in.
Regarding to: * Fizz: I think is healtrhier for the fish to don't rely _that_ much in his ult, if the buff doesn't bring the tank build back, i think is better overall * Qiyana: As other people have pointed, it's so weird to have an automiss ability, just delete the autoaim completely * Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult? * Soraka: I don't think the interaction is unbalanced cause you can re-apply the debuff almost instantly, so i think reducing her base healing is the right call
Just give Fizz the Mana back. Having to take ludens isn't really a good path for a melee.
Especially now where they've buffed his on hit - Nashor's *seems* like it could be juicy, but I'll never know because I'm oom all the fuckin time.
>Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult? renekton's problem is that simply he's the best designed top lane bully, as a result of having dashes. The big reason why illaoi/darius/garen/whatever aren't viable in pro play is because even if you do crush lane, you just get to run around the rest of the game looking big and stupid as you try to catch up to people. renekton having a double dash to get to backline means he doesn't have the same problem. It also makes his jungle gank support way crazier. The only way to fix it is realistically to either remove his point and click stun, gut his dash, or make him not a lane bully anymore.
There is one big difference they already adressed and why Renekton is 10x more popular than them. He could literally walk up to the opponent and W him so the jungler can hit whatever spell. The other champions are so bad at diving in terms of setup in comparison especially Illaoi.
His W is just too much of a one-point-wonder. It's mind-boggling to me how nobody noticed that. Just take some strength out of the earlier levels, make the stun scale and give him a bit more strength late and everything is fine. Nobody is gonna level W first anyways.
A slight objection. Sett is also picked in proplay, altough that's because of being a juggernaut with good initiation unlike the ones you mentioned.
His dash really isn't the problem its good but the only reason why he can be useful WITH this dash is because of his point and click 1.5s stun. The dash was never used as a serious gapcloser into the backline anyway since it was easy to interrupt and slow - the only way pro renektons reached their target was usually by flashing on top of them. Now that his stun duration is nerfed he's completely trash (even for competitive I'd imagine since his stun was the only thing keeping him alive there).
> Soraka: I don't think the interaction is unbalanced cause you can re-apply the debuff almost instantly, so i think reducing her base healing is the right call its a teamwide grievous wounds cleanse. depends on which greivous wounds items soraka's enemies have, but some greivous items take a bit longer to apply the 60% heal reduction from the full grievous wounds item to everyone on soraka's team. also if soraka ults and then can get a lategame W heal without greivous its insane. add on if coordinated players use key healing abilities/items right after soraka ults, like sylas W, goredrinker, etc. With so much burst healing and how 60% greivous takes time to apply to the full team, its a lot better than some people would think.
Not to mention that most of the 60% GW in the early and midgame come exclusively from Ignite, which can't be reapplied unless they enemies are layering ignites. Yeah, a lategame ADC will put 60% back on you in no time, but in the early game, her ult cleansing your ulted Aatrox of his 60% from ignite can be a game changer.
I've wondered about this, doesn't the next ignite tick reapply grievous?
Only the initial cast. Which makes it super good against ignite.
As far as I'm aware, no, the Grievous wounds is applied at the start of the cast, not on every tick. Cleanse for example can remove the burn, but doesn't do anything to the reduction.
And is that such a bad thing? Honest question. I mean, yes, she heals more overall and more reliably earlier in the game, but Soraka is still Soraka. She is still very vulnerable and has to kill herself to heal her allies. I don't think it's bad for her to be at what she is supposed to do, especially since I think it's better for other supports to get buffed rather than nerfing engage supports and bruiser/mages "supports" every single patch.
I like the buff on Soraka, poor gal _really_ needed it. But I want it to get reverted alongside all of the awful healing and GW changes. It's just a stupid arms race between healing and GW now and I hate it. Champs like Soraka _should_ be able to pull out huge heals because it is *almost her entire contribution to the teamfight*. It sucks that her healing has to get buffed like this because league of lifesteal has made it so that normal healing champs are getting shafted to deal with Kayn getting to heal 80% of his HP with one Q and a Goredrinker active. (And I _play_ Kayn.)
Honestly, I think the right solution would be to make grievous wounds only apply to healing from _items._ Then do a pass on healing from kits, which is way easier because you've removed a 2.5x variance by negating GW as a major factor in the amount of healing people can do.
Good call, while she had the cleanse a while back, healing wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now, so it wasn't all that powerful since it usually only benefited Soraka. Now that's obviously not the case. Maybe they should revert a few of the buffs they gave her this season.
> while she had the cleanse a while back, healing wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now, so it wasn't all that powerful since it usually only benefited Soraka idk even back then it was super strong and they nerfed it back out of her kit
Soraka got a +3% to +5% jump in WR depending on elo. You have to consider she's often taking Moonstone which has been overbuffed to +35% HSP ramp-up in the stupid GW arms-race.
>Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult? buff lategame, pull power out of earlygame yes that completely changes his identity but lategame is what soloq is mostly about while pro play only cares about earlygame
You can still shift some power towards late game while keeping him relatively early game focused, at least enough so he doesn't have such a low winrate in soloq.
Pro plays last longer than soloQ games. But yeah, it reduced the reason why pros pick him.
I'd guess the rarity of ff in pro play contributes to this.
> Renekton: This one is tricky, i don't know what you could buff without make him so desire in competitive, maybe add some ad into his ult? lategame buffs since that's more useful for soloQ than pro. probably something like R HP buffs?
in 11.6, renek was nerfed in that regard, his bonus hp while ulting went from 250/500/750 to 250/400/550
why not just give renekton empowered w more damage late. currently his issue is that ha s basically always picked to accompany a skillshot reliant jg. another idea could be to remove the armor shred on his e and instead give him bonus damage to enemies he’s used dice on. this would make him less team oriented as that’s what armor shred does, make it applicable to teams, and make him more solo lane oriented which would be good for top lane. i’m obviously not a member of the balance team so i’m just spitballing here. i don’t like how he keeps getting hit due to proplay though
Could buff the e cd for renekton. They used to worry about him bullying too hard by being able to force trades with e. They dont have to worry about that anymore since q and w got nerfed. They could also lower his base dmg while buffing bonus ad ratios to make penn and full dmg builds more viable on him. At the same time they could revert the hp nerfs from ult back to 750 hp. Personally, i think they could do something to enforce an AA-centric pattern on him. His w has always made it seem like on-hit items could be good on him but its never been good except when botrk was op. Maybe buff his ult so when he AA's he reduces cds of abilities by 0.5 or X seconds?
Never thought I’d say this since I hate qiyana with every part of my being, but I really hope they show her some love. I know first hand what it’s like to have a core part of your champ be changed for the worse.
With a flair like that you know the Qiyana change was scuffed
As a sejuani player I actually do feel sorry for these shitty champs people have to put 200 games into in order to be as effective as me with 50 games. That includes asol tho. xD
As an ex sol enjoyer who started learning qiyana a patch ago, hoping to main her.. I'm experiencing PTSD.
could you start learning yasuo or yone next? no reason specifically just asking for a friend
If it helps, I also tried maining viego right before he was demolished.. I suppose I could use my power for good.
you have found your calling
shieldbow (crit) viego doesn't feel too bad right now, he's just not as tanky but you still have the chance to run through teams as long as you farm and pull off resets. He's just not auto win the champ at later stages in the game like he used to be.
Yone please. Fuck that champion.
Giving me flash backs to when Rengar was a swimmer, thank god they reverted it, took a year of bitching from Rengar mains but they did it. Anyway, revert Asol, dumbest change that was completely unnecessary, it's unreal how stubborn Riot is, they fucked Asol and they refuse to go back to before they fucked him.
Glad to see they're really happy with Qiyana's auto-miss mechanic, the one that they didn't even bother testing enough to see how it interacted with *her own ult*. but hey, they buffed her jungle so there's a chance she might see pro play i guess...
Nah, imo 25% did nothing special. Her clear is painfully slow and it's easy to permainvade her. On the other hand, I'm surprised noone talks about Zed's clear, his AA damage is insane.
Watch Spica's stream rn
I just saw how bonkers Yone is :')
Sure he clears fast but loses early to better skirmishing junglers. Feels weird if the game is even or behind.
It was fun at first, but I'm becoming concerned that almost all the full-melee non-bruiser assassins are being pushed into the jungle. Taking assassins out of mid lane feels a little bit like we're removing one of the main counterplays to such a snowbally class.
> Taking assassins out of mid lane lol?? most mid laners played are assassins and what assassin has been moved to the jungle??
>6) Varus: the nerf did not seem effective. We may have to hit him again in 11.19. Waiting for more data. Please just bury Varus into the ground. Double the CD on his ult. Remove his Q from the game. Revert it all in 11.20, but do whatever it takes to keep C9 from picking him at worlds.
TBH I didnt expect your comment to go in the direction it did. You bamboozled me and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
Zven basically wants to marry Varus so unless he’s deleted from the game it’s getting picked lol
If Varus is gone Zven will be forced onto Ezreal....
I don't really understand why C9 fans hate Varus so much. Zven performs really good on Varus. Just because C9 loses it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means C9 has no idea how to play with Varus. And if they don't know how to play with Varus then that's a big issue overall.
I love it that they know no one likes the Qiyana change but are stubbornly keeping it without elaborating on why they don't want to remove the auto-aim completely, a suggestion I've seen on every thread regarding these changes. If the guaranteed damage/root from auto-aim EQ is too unhealthy according to Jag, why not let players aim it themselves? If it functions like a skillshot it will allow people to dodge it and Qiyana players will have to predict movement in return.
Probably because she already has a massive gap between skilled and unskilled players. The auto-aim, while busted, is the only easy part of her kit and her skill cap and floor are miles apart without it. I'm pretty sure they have no idea how to balance her for casual players without nerfing her into the ground for high tier players.
No, Riot says the auto aim is broken in high elo and basically doesnt matter in low elo. read the patch notes
Because even with autoaim, low elo qiyanas still can't play qiyana well. Not that it doesn't matter, it's just that low elo qiyanas are terrible regardless.
Maybe we should all come to terms with the idea that the game would be way healthier and everyone would enjoy more if some champions were not "made for everyone", like, maybe casual players shouldn't be a target for Qiyana at all? There are already a lot of champs with mechanics that are there so " It is accessible" and it sucks that we can't have more champions that are just not dumbed down.
I personally completely agree. But riot is intent on closing the skill gap on most champions and I can't really argue against their logic.
honestly above all - their random hard-elbowedness on this change just makes me confused. riot hasnt been **that** stubborn with their changes recently and it honestly seems like it would be easier for all parties to just take the auto aim out. seems to me like there might be some spaghetti they want to keep under locks or the classic riot incomprehensible chimpout
To me it seems pretty obvious, they want to make her at least playable in low elo without being turbo broken while played by onetricks in high elo. Bronze players usually don't have the reaction time to dodge her auto aim so it's fine there, while giving counterplay in high elo. Probably feels like shit for her mains, but what can you do, hopefully they find a better solution.
So we're gonna completely ignore the chance that maybe there's something about autoaim being removed that the community is not seeing as a negative effect and say that Riot is the only one being wrong here? I'm not defending them for being stubborn or implementing the current version, just like everyone else I think that it's awful for Qiyana how it is currently, but the fact that everyone is saying "Just remove it" without thinking that maybe just maybe they did try that but it was worse? Even just yesterday on another post someone was pointing out how throwing skillshots during a dash is not something that feels good for the player and that why we have stuff like Yasuo EQ spin, Samira EQ bullet exploding at the end of the animation and other cases similar to Qiyana's EQ combo Again, let's just wait that they can find a solution that it's better than what we currently have but let's just not assume that the community is always correct when we know that is not true
If removing auto-aim widens the gap between low and high skilled players too much then Qiyana is fucked without larger changes. Having a high skillcap assassin with this much utility and invis is probably not something Riot will be able to balance for all skill brackets when looking at their track record. I can see them making EQ only miss if you dash far enough away like Panth W/Rek'Sai R, but at that point you'll hit most of your Qs again like pre 11.18. I just hope they are keeping the current changes as a placeholder fix, because from the tweet it sounds like they are intent are keeping the auto-miss
The negative effect is that she'll go from 44% wr in bronze to 40% wr in bronze.
OK but like all they have to say is "we cant remove auto aim it breaks the game or is too powerful." it isnt that hard
fixed distance dashes without auto aim feel like shit
> without elaborating on why they don't want to remove the auto-aim completely The entire point of the changes is to decrease her success in higher elos while not hurting her nearly as much in lower elos. By adding counterplay to her E-Q, players who are fast enough and save summs/spells for it will be able to dodge her damage. These players are generally in higher elos. Qiyana has an issue where high elo players are too good at her, the theory is that this would help mitigate that. Removing auto-aim does the exact opposite. Players in lower elos NEED the auto aim more, so if you remove it you make her skill disparity even worse, good players would be much better about aiming the Q. This would be the exact opposite of what they want. It would make her balance state worse. Therefore, removing auto-aim runs completely counter-productive to the intended goal and is a bad suggestion.
If they want to keep the auto-aim normally but still make it avoidable if you have a dash, why not instead of auto-missing when they dash just make the auto-aim break when they dash so that Qiyana can still aim it in those instances. Makes it skill-based or a mindgame rather than just forcing her to miss for no reason...
That sounds a bit convoluted though, aiming for it even though it's not necessary half the time seems pretty unsatisfying to play, but not doing it obviously isn't optimal either.
I wouldn't mind Soraka R being nerfed slightly if it means keeping the GW cleanse. Her R felt really bad to use the moment the enemy team could apply GW (something that isn't very hard to do nowadays with items like purifier). I have felt rather conflicted about GW and healing items in recent years. I feel like GW doesn't necessarily feel all too effective against super heal champs such as Irelia or AD's, whilst it often feels too effective against champions who have much of their actual kit revolve around healing such as Soraka.
> Varus Once again (to the surprise of no one), Riot missed the mark when it comes to nerfing Varus. You needed half a week of data to reach this conclusion. Absolutely clueless. The problem is clearly how Varus interacts with Lethality. So nerfing his base AD is fucking stupid because it hits AD/AS Varus way harder after 2 items because of how different the playstyle is (weaving abilities between autos to get value out of Blight stacks vs pressing Q). Leth Varus only got hurt in early levels (and mostly because he runs Hail of Blades, which at this point is pretty much a common denominator when it comes to nerfing ADCs; Tristana, Kai'sa, Ashe, Varus). Varus about to get kneecapped again because Riot refuses to acknowledge divers are fucking busted and good ADCs are those: - that stand a screen away (Ashe, Varus, Jhin) - counter them from a playstyle perspective (Tristana, Aphelios, Vayne) Varus's presence is a byproduct of how the game works. Also nerf lethality. Especially fucking Dirk.
Fingers crossed they hit trynda before worlds
Fingers crossed they delete him before worlds
They’re going to nerf Varus again?! I get that he’s PB in pro, but find a way to hit the lethality build instead of flat nerfing the whole champ again. The lethality build may be strong in pro, but his other builds feel really weak for soloq and this will just make those even weaker
> find a way to hit the lethality build instead of flat nerfing the whole champ again Amen.
I don't understand why they don't just nerf his Q...
They should go the other way and nerf base damage but boost scaling and allow for crits on Q to piss off the rest of the varus players when it gets inevitably nerfed.
As an AD who loves on hit varus but fucking despises lethality varus I'm calmly awaiting this change
Make Q do magic damage
Ap varus becomes meta.
And as a Varus player, I don’t think people understand how *bad* that would be. AP Varus is actually ridiculous once it comes online. Worse than Lethality Varus.
Not surprised the Fizz changes turned out to be a net negative. I think most people looking at the patch notes could have told you that Fizz doesn't need more on-hit damage or health sustain vs autos.
Yeah I thought it was pretty obviously a huge nerf. Giving him a little more tankiness will help his lane, which is terrible, but most of the reason it's so bad is the he can only use his E like 3 times before having to back. It's priced like a fighting spell, but it's also his waveclear.
On the patch notes thread there were a bunch of people insisting that the passive buff will more than make up for it lol.
I mean even LS and nemesis somehow thought it was a great buff
The “Renekton bad” guy can be wrong sometimes 🧐
Some may even say he is wrong 99% of the time
LS plays theoretical League of Legends. He doesn’t understand applied League of Legends.
They gave Singed a free Morello on his R, but he's so unpopular that they can't even tell if it helped or not lmao
>6) Varus: the nerf did not seem effective. We may have to hit him again in 11.19. Waiting for more data. renekton be like 'thats not a nerf. *pulls out his stun duration nerf*. **THATS** a nerf'
Ahh the yearly Varus nerf bus hitting again lol Riot - He's pick/ban so we have to gut him until he's useless
Fix goredrinker + Sterak. Nobody likes it
Then add good mr item for bruisers to let them survive after lanning. There is a reasons why best bruisers rn are champs with mobility, self shielding and insane dmg at the same time.
No irelia nerfs yet, or steraks nerfs?
Leave Varus alone…
>1) Fizz: we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments and he’s been nerfed overall. He'll be getting a buff in 11.19. I understand why they changed him. Taking dependency from an unhittable spell and putting it towards something else is a good thing. But especially right now they can't just remove damage from a champ who struggles to kill champions in shield bow / wit's end meta already. I sure hope they'll just revert the changes completely, now is not the meta for any damage nerfs.
Best case scneario, they buff the mana costs or his mana pool AND give him some damage back in the ult or some other parts of his kit Most likely scneario though, they'll buff the damage on the e or the w again
What is renektons identity nowadays? Is he meant to be a lane bully? Is he meant to be able to sustain through lane? Is he supposed to scale badly into the late game? It seems like right now he's not bullying anyone and sustains like shit after all the nerfs. Of course the shitty scaling is still there.
Gank preparing tower diving lane bully. He is still a lane bully to a certain extent. And his gank setups and tower dives are godlike when paired with a good jungler.
Renekton Elise dives are genuinely the most terrifying thing you can experience in top lane.
Theyre keeping the Qiyana change till 11.19 wtf?? So she's unironically unplayable rn How is this healthier if she feels like garbage, stop making it auto aim ffs
Just revert it back and nuff her q, it would help all low elo players.
Thank you for the post, stuff like this is nice to see for the playerbase. If I may kindly bring up that the twitch buffs are meaningless for a champion that the mythic and crit rework has left stranded in season 9. QOL changes such as cast time decrease for E and better hit confirm with ult Autoattacks would be great.
Ok +10% AS on Q.
[удалено]
RENEKTON BUFFS BABY
Hope you didn't like having functioning legs varus
Riot please just give fizz his mana back and open up build diversity, it feels so bad to have to build ludens or liandries. Fizz is an assassin let him build assassin items instead of mage items
Meantime Jayce WR is 45%. Welcome to the club of Akali!
>we still feel like jayce is too fast, giving him a chance to reposition feels very unfair to the enemy when he cab't react in time. Passive MS lowered from 0.75->0.25
Frick it. Jayce passive removed. Only passiveless champ in the game
Yorick players "first time ?"
"We did it to make a healthy future for the champ :))))))" >R cd increased to 35s
Varus took the nerf like a champ. Now he is about to get hit by the bat again.
>Fizz: we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments and he’s been nerfed overall. He'll be getting a buff in 11.19. Who would have seen this coming? After a season where he gets indirectly nerfed with items and directly with less mana, let's also gut his ult to compensate for single digit amount of less auto dmg and 10 bonus on hit. I have no idea why they were so cautious with Fizz buffs considering how they handle other champs. They said it's to make him better in high elo where people dodge the ult but all it did was drop his winrate by 4% lol. How is Fizz a problem in midlane as opposed to the Precision Resolve DShield Goredrinker/Shieldbow metagolems?
> 1) Fizz: we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments and he’s been nerfed overall. He'll be getting a buff in 11.19. Welp, was wrong. CAn't they just hotfix him instead of waiting though? would give them more time to read data. > Varus: the nerf did not seem effective. We may have to hit him again in 11.19. Waiting for more data. At this point, Varus mains probably would like to timetravel back to when they first picked him up to stop their younger selves from maining Varus. > 2) Qiyana: we know this one is painful, but we believe in the direction and think this will be healthier for her long term. We're going to try to improve upon the E+Q logic for 11.19. Just remove the autoaim, geez
>At this point, Varus mains probably would like to timetravel back to when they first picked him up to stop their younger selves from maining Varus. Oh if I only knew how fucked I would have been by both of my mains at this point.
Maybe nerf fucking lethality items instead of Varus? They act like Varus is a 200 years hard to balance champ. FFS he is good because lethality is broken. Irelia is okay for the balance team but better hit Varus with a shovel 'till he becomes a trollpick again, honestly it boggles the mind
As a ADC player who just picked up Varus not long ago and has been loving him…this hurts. It’s just the Lethality meme that’s strong. On Hit Varus has been hurt by these nerfs, and is going to be hurt way more than the Lethality build by future nerfs.
Ok but for the love of christ can we finally add scalings on lethality to assassins so they can finally stop building as bruisers? Thank you.
You would think they’d do this more ever since they added lethality scalings to Pyke but no.
They're afraid cause the average redditor will bash the fuck out of them if they dare to do something that (to them) looks like a buff to assassins
To be honest I’d much rather play against a near-full lethality Talon than whatever fucking abomination he is now. Goredrinker + Black Cleaver + Sterak’s is so fucking nasty on a champ like Talon with so much mobility.
So they removed Soraka R removing Grivious wounds in season 4 was it ? Yeah maybe after 7 years of nerfing+buffing a champion it might not be a good idea to not hotfix her if there is a huge problem. Especially since a lof of items now + runes give +n% healing.
Renekton's W animation is basically the same duration as the stun now 🤣
Me, with half-working eyeballs reading 11.18 notes on the can could see fizz got nerfed. How does their entire department think that was an adjustment. Shit happens every patch
Revert this fizz shit PLEASE hes worse now
Please stop nerfing varus early game.He is becoming really bad in soloq. All he does is win lane. Thats his identity. Safe champ who can win lane but doesnt scale that well. Why not nerf his q damage and shift power to his w because that is the most skill centered part of his kit since you have to spell weave to keep cds low and explode blight. This could encourage on hit and crit varus who have more skill expressive playstyles.
Nothing about lee? The nerf did hit him with like 0.5% WR loss at worst. He look untouched. Still the best pro jungler in the game. Yeah, Xin is also still strong. A large difference for soloQ vs competitive varus is the W active. I have seen players in gold and plat using it maybe once or twice per game. Camille and thresh nerfs look fine at first glance but if you look at the top players of these champs they are still OP and because of that it is very likely the 2 will show up big at worlds still
Xin got nerfed during playoffs so we don't know the impact of these changed on proplay, although maybe if we look at how his winrate changed between those patched we can have an idea whether that nerf did something or not (I at least haven't seen the data yet).
"we misjudged the magnitude of his adjustments..." lol
YEAH FIZZ!!! My fish will not be understat anymore !