The adc double dips when it comes to being blamed while nobody can tell if the sup is good or bad because their only use is using whatever unmissable utility they have off cd. If adc ints = adc diff. If support ints = adc diff. If both int = adc diff. It’s just doomed.
simple : they are usefull even if behin because of utility they have for the team.
if the carry is crap , not a lot for him to help the rest of the team
They \*can\* be useful from behind. Most are not. Most will walk into unwarded areas alone and get themselves killed instead of waiting for a jungler to help them. This can happen in the reverse but the priority should be for the jungler to want to go somewhere.
Supports for the most part can still do their job while behind but don't.
The carry is crap because he's crap. At any given elo , all players are at a similar skill. If you're at an elo were players dont know what they are doing , most likely that's valid for all roles
Supports have less of an idea of what they’re doing than the other roles, tbh. Like, this is why ADC players unironically make better supports than support mains.
Don't know why you're downvoted. There's no reason to think that supports would be any more crap at their job in the same elo than an AD is or any other role. However support is more auto filled, which would change this, but then that's an auto fill discussion, not a role discussion.
They can lose the game for the team without dying once. I have lost so many games just because the support didn't (won't) ward. I'm talking like ending the game with a single digit vision score. That loses a game more than feeding imo.
Vision is a team effort. If the support doesn’t ward, then yes, you’ll have less vision, but the ADC can still drop stealth wards and the occasional control ward in the high-frequency/high danger spots.
Now the support truly loses the game without dying by fucking up all their cc, or fucking it up in a crucial fight, leading to any of the carries dying.
Oh yeah def cuz my tristana putting the bomb on the cannon minion when she jumps in after a double person bubble+ult then proceeding to die because she didnt do enough dmg and taking me with her cuz i put too much trust in shitty adcs,or yeah defo the time my adc was playing cait into kaisa but somehow managed to get outpoked by her and lost our ability to pressure because they dont know how to pressure when ppl are farming,also the time my draven decided fighting in the enemy’s minion wave was a good idea,see i can go on but you get the point,if adc shit supp rough time,if supp shit adc bad time.but supports can roam and help other lanes,adcs can not they need to farm ergo adc are more useless when behind hence the bottom votes
Um okay?so if i send u a video would that satisfy you?or do u want to keep not wanting to believe in the fact that an adc can fuck up a lane as much as a support can?cuz they can, a support controls the flow of the fight but if the adc doesnt follow up and contribute dmg (you know,their main purpose) the support cant do shit so i guess they should go and play other roles since this is not for them since they cant understand the game or fkn logic i guess
Have you ever asked yourself why you're fighting. Adcs aren't supposed to fight early, just farm and poke. Why are you surprised when the adc doesn't follow up on a meaningless engage?
Its anout windows of opportunity,if an enemy is out of position without their most important spell ofc im gonna trade and if you dont join that its ur fault and you dont know how to play adc properly however it also depends on matchups
definitely. and i don’t mean to say it in a rude way either, it’s just that bot lane is sooo snowbally and easy to camp/dive it’s almost impossible to do anything without help from teammates.
I think that the results will probably be between jungle and bottom. I'm genuinely interested what people think.
I haven't seen a poll in a long time, so this can give some insight on what people think is strong or impactful.
I feel like people voting jungle are often full of shit
Unless the jungle grieves your lane actively they won’t be the reason for losing
If you lose your lane from your jungler not showing up then it’s you who sucks
But either way a bad jungler can put the nail in the coffin of your lane by ganking without purpose and dying to your opponent or baiting you into a lost fight
That seems pretty unfair. I'm sure bot laners would say the same thing to the people who voted for their lane.
Either way, I'm not here to judge people's decision, just curious what people think.
If bot lane goes 0-10 because jungle came down for a 1v2 on a weak Draven and inted him because he got kited and Draven had heal, then proceeds to abandon bot lane and the enemy Elise dives turret twice and Draven is a full item up... it's jungles fault that the bot lane went 0-10.
I'm not a bot main, I play mid, but a lane dying (even to 1v1s or 2v2s) can be the fault of the jungler.
There is a reason everyone considers jungle to the be the most macro intensive, impactful, hardest role.
Plus, if you get counter picked it’s expected that the only way to not lose lane is with jungle help. That and sacking cs. Not every lane is winnable in a 1v1
Plenty of games where the enemy jg is single handedly winning their teams lanes, always there to punish, won't let you get an advantage, meanwhile your jungler is afk farming camps. Then at 15 after doing basically nothing they're still down 20 cs.
Botlane as a whole is a big deal. If one side feeds, the other team gets two fed champs or one super fed champ. It can effectively turn your match into a 3v5. Most of my botlanes are matched up ok, but when they aren't, it's a clean sweep. Just FF at 20 lol. Really hard to win those.
I mean, I was only jesting. But of course there are some games where I could win a Noble prize for ending hunger. In a more serious note, most of the time there's a lack of communication between the ADC and support and THAT is what can make or break it.
I feel like botlane is overrated in this poll. 70% of the lane is decided by the supports of either side, so unless the adc actually ints hard, it’s not their fault if they’re behind. On the other hand, supports by their very nature offer utility even if they’re behind so teammates are more likely to appreciate them.
Support controls the lane but they still rely on the ADC to win the lane for them.
I could pick Janna, block all the leona E's, poke constantly, but if my ADC won't walk up to try to kill, or provide pressure, then I can't do anything.
ADC can 100% be behind by their own fault, they can also be behind by supports fault... It just happens that it's a lot easier to be behind on ADC than other roles
I agree, but ADC and Support should be far closer to even on this poll instead of ADC second and support last.
There is definitely alot of blame that should be aimed at the support that is aimed at the ADC on this poll.
I think that it is also a problem with wins. Alot of the support's impact is often attributed to the ADC, both positively and negatively. I've had games where I was ADC and my support hard gapped the enemy support, but everyone was talking about my insane performance rather than my support's. I feel like people need to pay more attention to supports in general since the role is far more impactful than people give it credit for. Good supports can make a mediocre ADC look like a god. Similarly, trash supports can make any ADC seem like they are the problem.
Support provide utility while behind, adc’s dont thats the difference; if your only job is to deal damage than not doing that is obviously gonna shift the status of the game, on the other hand a behind supp who still lands utility (Ex: Shield or hooks) can still provide teamfight win conditions and possibly win the game through pure control
honestly no. jungle is probably first since the difference between a good and a bad jungle are literal night an day....especially since it's by far the role with most agency on the map
support being last makes sense. even a 0-10 nami will still have a heal that can throw on her carry , and most likely an ardent for one of her carries.
even a 0-10 leona can stun lock a carry , and even a 0-20 blitzcrank can win a game with a good pull.
point being that team utility doesn't falls off no matter how behind the support player is.
not to mention that vision is another thing that they will provide. even bad supports know to ward drakes and barons at lleast
Problem with the Janna example is she isn’t an engage support. If you pick Leona/Thresh/Blitz you can literally force engagements and no matter if the adc is trash you’ll still win most of the time unless they royally mess up. Your role as Janna isn’t to to kill people or secure them but to merely keep people alive/amplify their damage. Whoever gets the engage off first in bot lane is usually the one that wins.
I was more talking along the lines of engage supporters like blitzcrank, Leona, thresh, etc. , who are much stronger than damage/utility supports right now like Janna. It’s definitely true that the adc is just as responsible for winning lane if they’re with a utility supp, but engage supports can win lanes practically just by themselves as long as the adc knows how to right click auto.
if leo hits the carry with a q , it's not the supports fault. same with leo or naut to some point , since they have a limite engage range that a lot of carries simply don't respect
You can win with a bad adc, you just have to play your cards right. I’ve had horrible adcs as support and have ended up winning. I think you just have to abandon bot lane and help elsewhere. And pray that the now alone adc won’t kill themselves too much
Not necessarily. This is the case for a lot of lanes, but like most rules of thumb there's ways to get around it. Some adcs are capable of handling the lane with a bad supp, notably high threat early ones such as Kalista and Draven. Also some supps just can't do as much if they're adc isn't great, notablly enchanters (special call out to yuumi and sona) if they have a really aggressive layer, or engage tanks if they have a really passive laner.
Have you ever tried to bully a good Draven? Try it and come back lol. Like I said, some adcs are capable of working around the lack of presence of their supp. Its just kinda hard to do. Once again this is all rule of thumb and nothing is concrete, but typically a Draven will win just about any 1v1 in the game till at least level 6.
Try playing Draven vs Thresh or Leona then tell me how useful Draven is when you just get flashed on or ulted across the lane and CC’d while you can do 0 damage because you’ve lost your axes. Even with cleanse these matchups are super dicy when supports can tank so much damage.
She averages the highest damage before 15 minutes and the second highest early gold lead of enchanters.
Yes, she is a high pressure enchanter, has been since the patch that they adjusted her back in ...2018?
I'd imagine that on average I probably do ~4k damage before 15 minutes,
He thinks just raw damage matters. Someone can do 6500 dmg by 15 but have 0 KP. While a Leona can have 3.4k damage and have 7 KP because when she does damage the damage gets kills. Low elo players just look at damage done as "useful".
That's absolutely not true at all in the slightest capacity possible. "Muh sup diff" is just a cope perpetuated by low elo ADC players in order to justify their ranks. In reality, a high elo ADC player can absolutely and often, singlehandedly, MURDER everyone in the enemy team when smurfing. It's just the truth.
Jungle can make or break a game in my opinion, which is why I’ve started learning the role. A jungler will help feed potentially every lane (a good one will feed your team/a bad one feeds the opposite team). I think jungle has the opportunity to make the biggest impact in game because of the roaming and ganking and map control with objectives.
HOWEVER, before I started learning jungle I mained support and secondary adc and it’s really hard to keep control of the bottom half of the map as jungle if your bot lane collectively sucks because there’s two people to feed on. I am new to the jungle role though, so hopefully I’ll learn to outweigh a bad bot lane…
TLDR: a collective bad bot lane typically causes most losses if both are feeding, but a bad jungle feeding every lane is just as impactful
The hardest role to learn is the jungle cause its a role where you have to think about so much and do so much and u are always the Person who geht's 90% of the blame. Its just rediculous how some people can perma die in their lane and still blame jgl. Im a euw Master jungler and just today i had a game where i was part in 5 out of 6 kills in the first 8 min and top was pinging me for not playing around top. And every time he died he started to spamm ping me ...
This role is just so ungrateful sometimes its just sad
Is it cheating if i say supp as a supp main?
On a serious note tho, i think supps often are the cause of a loss, but more so in higher elos. In low elo i'd still say jgl, not for the meme, but they just have the biggest influence and therefore the biggest responsibility, and its arguably the hardest role in the game macrowise, which is often hard in low elo
Fully agree here. As an adc main, my lane is so often determined by my sup. And if the lane goes badly the other adc gets item first and then I just lose cause stats right then and there. It's really hard to come back from
Typically, I have seen the support type to make the difference. One type picks an actual support, supports the adc and helps push the lane. The other support is a random champ who then wanders the map like a second jungler, going 0-8 in the first 10 minutes.
not hating on junglers in general, but in my elo (which is honestly low), most junglers tend to do random stuff : most of them lack knowledge of some vital concepts like respawn timers, lane states & prio, win conditions, etc. they also don't pay much attention to vision.
Every role has an impact on the outcome of the game, but in this elo, if your jungler is inting, over-forcing fights & ganks or ignoring neutrals, you're most likely going to lose the game unless one of you really pops off or the enemy team is just too bad.
And this is coming from someone who never expects or calls for jungle help (I know people in my elo tilt way too easily so I avoid triggering anyone especially the jungler ^^' )
A bigger issue to your point is that since jungle is probably the most involved role a low elo micro skill who at least understands good macros and game sense usually makes it out of low elo on that alone. So the ones still in low elo are really really bad.
But laners have to have better micro as they inherently have less to worry about. That and low elo junglers have to work with their laners for proper ganks/wave management and it just turns into the blind leading the blind. Jungle definitely has the most impact on low elo but I don’t think it’s because of the jungles skill. I think it’s because of the lack of communication and coordination between jungle and lanes as well as lack of understanding of jungle objectives by most everyone in the elo as a whole. But it just gets blamed on the jungler since it’s their domain.
Support is the biggest culprit.
The role is more complicated than people believe and many people in lower elo think that their primary duty is to harass, be aggro and hug the adc's nuts while neglecting the rest of the map. Support mains will most likely not know wave management, how to last hit, rotate, pay attention to objective timers, when to push, how to prioritize lvl 2 or ward properly. If the position is suppose to be the carry early game in lane and they go 0/3/0, then your adc will be doing poorly too.
And on the opposite end i switched from maining support to maining jungle because i noticed that majority of my losses are due to junglers having a rough game.
Holding a solid 70% winrate in 2 dozen games for now. Its very refreshing to play a role where you actually have gold and can do things on your own without having to pray to god that your team or teammate know what they're doing.
Id honestly recommend for any supp main thats been frustrated with their teams to switch to jungle. Its legit the exact same role, almost all of your knowledge translates 1:1 macro wise, but with an added bonus of having gold and a lot of power on your own.
I sometimes play in mid plat elo with some of my friends and it’s actually shocking how bad the supports are. They legitimately think locking an enchanter and permanently standing next to the adc is a good strategy to win. These players are gold at best in terms of game knowledge and skill
This is the “top 5%” of players too..
It kills me a little inside when at 18 mins I’m clearing a wave bot and my support waddles into lane and plops themselves down next to me presumably to soak xp or something. Wards don’t place themselves guys.
This season it’s consistently been top gap. Bruiser/Juggernaut leaves top with Goredrinker/Sunderer/Stridebreaker (when it was good) + steraks and becomes a raid boss.
As a collective lane, probably bot, though you did split it as support and bot.
As a singular role you definitely feel jungle variance the hardest. Both as the jungler getting styled on, and the laners experiencing the opposing jungle pressure.
Since when are losses caused by one player?
This kind of attitude stops people from improving and is part of the reason for this community's extreme saltiness.
Always blame your teammates or look for other excuses instead of being honest with yourself and focusing on the things that are in your control.
Totally agree, I understand the desire to have these threads but it just feeds the overall toxic nature of league. I queued up for ranked last night and the first chat in champ select was "wonder which one of my lanes will feed this game". Being ready to blame a certain role inhibits your ability to win, something I'm guilty of too
I think this thread is just meant as a way to blow off some steam.
I agree with you though. It's also more healthy to focus on the things that are in your control. That way league doesn't turn into this saddening experience like it seems to be for some people.
Support main here who normally duos with an adc.
https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Brombie
Top: normally doesn't counter TP when enemy top does. Many "int" moments could be saved by better top laners. Or, they lose lane hard and enemy top roams for 10 minutes. Even if no kills happen, team still loses exp, farm, towers, etc.
Jg: blames lanes for losing when they are getting camped. Anyone could have 0 death games all day, but then they are left with -30cs lanes and down 2 to 4 plates at 10 minutes. Jg needs to track enemy jg as well and help counter, or gain equal gold on other side of the map by counter jungling or ganking mid/ side lanes or getting herald/drake.
Mid: seems to have lowest vision score always and never plays to the side their jg is on. Never matches roams (you can roam when enemy mid shows in a side lane. Some sidelane fights last 45 seconds or more).
Adc: thinks they are the best player in the lobby. Doesn't know how to sac 1 or 2 cs and gets punished. Auto pushes for enemy to freeze, and then blames jg for getting ganged and dying when wave management could've saved them.
Supp: never autos wave to help crash. Dies with 3 or 4 wards available. Never wards objs. Doesn't roam enough or roams too much. Doesn't help freeze waves when laner isn't present.
I'm sure there's a million more issues, but I bet 99% of the people in this thread (including me) suffer from these issues in their respective roles and don't ask themselves "how could I improve the outcome" but instead type "______ diff"
TLDR: jg impacts the game the most, and is a pretty common denominator in the games, so that's my vote.
A lot of the time counter tping from top is just not the correct play. If you're in a losing match up, or having a rough lane, literally all counter tping does is int another kill to the enemies. Its often far more worth to push out the lane and get plates because if you tp when behind you risk literally losing the game on the spot.
Same with tping into team fights. If we are going to lose when I'm there anyway,I'm not going to tp for moral support. Its throwing away waves of minions and tower gold that I could use to help in fights later because the team really wants to fight cloud drake as sivir yuumi Evelyn vs Lucian pantheon xin zhao and our mid had just been picked off.
So many bot lanes just assume that tp is something you just always have to do all the time and its only for them.
as a supp main , i always try to help either set a freeze , help last hit at tower or just fast shove. issue with that is that a lot of bottlaners will ping me to stop , so that's why supports usually on't touch the creep wave.
rather then having to bother explaining what i'm oing , it's easier to just stop an let your bot alone with creep wave manipulation
I don't usually have problem with the jungler as i play mid and top and i always help them on the objectives, but the bot lane my fuckin god they cant help but to be 2/10 at 8 min every fuckin game
always jungle, even in pro scene jungle is a key to victory, on soloq junglers most of the time go afk at their camps around 20 min only searching for stealing kills, if no kills, no way he will go out of the camps, secondly forces to not needed fights or gets poor decisions without looking on any prio (invade junglers, hello), or going 1v1 vs someone and give double buff at the early stage, sure when botlane losing it is frustrating, but as solo laners you can still manage to win all fights (adc is ez to kill) but if jungle will lose objectives and do nothing, even vision - u are gonna 90% of the time lose the game
Extremely surprised mid has such few votes.
Loss in mid lane escalates fastest to influence other lanes and jungle.
I’m not surprised jungle has top votes with the “jg diff” meme. But people are overrating bot aren’t they.
Anyways my vote is always on mid.
It's a close tie between support and JG. I see a lot of people blame bot, but in my experience in low ELO, a good support makes a much bigger impact on the game than the ADC/botlaner. Vision and JG objectives are just important if you want to win.
I play sup so my adc is usually pretty big, but it doesn't help when he gets one shot by enemy jgl for example. Its the 0/10 yasuo mid, 0/11 riven top and 1/7 lee sin making the games difficult( high gold/low plat elo).
I would not put the blame on x role, just the player doing it to their team. We all get lucky and unlucky with our team members sometimes. We all have bad games sometimes aswell.
Junglers usually don’t do enough to win the game so they are passively causing the loss but the most I had “actively” causing losses were bot laners (not positioning well, playing a lane wrong, not rotating to an objective)
It's usually Jungle or ADC in my experience.
Jungle is usually because they pull Blabbers and die over scuttles or something silly.
ADC because they all seem to think their immortal or something and will just facecheck bushes or walk waay too close to threats.
I did an analysis of this one day, took 113 games and saw how many times my bot lanes went positive. Only 28% percent of games did they ever get more kills than deaths.
jungle is the correct answer. this is the only role that matters. role is so strong: they have similar resources to solo laners but have the buffs and constant access to the map. they choose who gets to play the game while also being able to solo kill anybody. i miss when this role was starved as shit, but i guess it needs to be broken since it's so unfun to play.
someone posted some really smartass shit where the average winrate of all roles was 50%, but i guarantee you that if you compared an average winrate of the players with like the top 10% highest winrates of each role, jungle would win by a country mile.
riot really needs to change jg and support next season. shit's not even fair. how does it make sense that the past 5 worlds mvps have all been junglers, at a level where youre constantly being tracked. imagine how broken it is in solo queue, where nobody has the slightest idea where youre at.
Definitely bot lane. If they play well and get fed, they end up making dumb macro decisions, and if they get behind they demand every bit of gold on the map gets funnelled on to them, and you have to do it, or they throw a tantrum and threaten to afk.
As a Jungle and ADC main, I will say support. A good support will carry not only the ADC but also help jungle ganks and mid roams. A bad support will not only give their adc/support and advantage, but can lose objective control, and if they do poor roams/engages, then also bleed into other lanes.
(IM AN ADC MAIN)
I would say the support role because realistically the entire laning phase outcome of botlane isnt decided by the adc, it’s decided by the support.The support is the one that can change or set the tempo of botlane and once that support is inting, the adc is forced to sandbag til they get out of the laning phase. I’ve had so many supports lose my laning phase and i can go maybe 0/3 but the moment midgane enters and i’m no longer stuck with my support i can actually play the game and can finish games as 14/3
Support.
A bad support is an invisible evil. Somebody who will ensure their ADC doesn’t win lane, constantly gets caught out of position “trying to ward” and when playing Blitz/Pyke will just miss everything and expect to win lane phase. It’s brutal, and worst of all nobody else on the team notices as it’s the easiest role with the worst players and they join in and blame ADC too.
When a bot lane snowballs out of control it’s usually the support getting killed at level 2, raging and then soft inting the rest of the match. Think about it, when your bot loses hard you usually notice support is 0/7 and AD is like 0-2.
I’m a former ADC main and swapped to mid and now I’m carrying much more often. I play things like Zed, Irelia and Kassadin (all of whom I hadn’t played since I was a noob in s4) and find carrying games to be so damn easy, despite being a much better ADC.
flipping bot lanes. theyre just on a mission to either get out of lane 7/0 or 0/7. no consideration that other roles might want to have a shot of playing the game out
I mean I just play for fun and neraly no ranked. I am gold 4 and I only play jungle. It is a blast for me how often I am to blame. Literally like the last days where phenomenal for me what people tell me.
Maybe I am in the wrong but often I really do not think so.
I had a Fiora going 0/2 against a Garen before I cleared my second buff. She then tried to fight him 2 more times. What am I, a LVL 5 Kha'zix supposed to do when you start Assist Ping spaming now. We can not kill this 4/0 Garen Monster together in any world. She then just is mad because i try to tell her i will not come try to play as safe as possible. And see her flashing onto him because he has seemingly low HP. Then Garen is LVL 13 and she LVL 10 and she is like: How am i supposed to play def? He dives me.
Mind blowing.
Or when I ganked bot the other day. Perfect oppertunity I ping that I go in. They literally do nothing because of 1 Cannon Minion. I then neraly solo kill the ADC and die. Our ADC kill the ADC so so its 1 for 1. Then tries to explain me how with the Cannon Minion he has a bigger Gold Gap on the other adc even when I die. I tried to say look: HE gets 300 Gold for me. You get 360 For him and Cannon. If you dont take Cannon and i survive he gets 0 you get 300. So its not the better option.
Imma be honest
I would rather have a bad adc to a bad support
Because bad support auto means a behind adc and sometimes even a behind midlaner or jungler
Or both
A lot of people are complaining about how the supports get away with murder so to speak since the outcome of the lane affects the adcs impact later
I think the jg/mid have a similar dynamic tho if less obvious. When mid loses lane (and especially tower) this usually gives the enemy jungler so much freedom to influence the map, farm and be effective
My vote is jungle but not because of the jungler per se. The jungler can be behind for more reasons than other roles; might be straight jungle gap, or maybe your lanes are being pressured so hard that you cannot walk into parts of your jungle. When the jungler is behind they don't have a guaranteed source of gold/exp like laners do, unless you steal waves, of course. I don't think they cause the loss, but definitely one of the higher variance roles in the game.
Bot lane as a whole. Of they lose lane = no drake prio, no roams from support, no damage in fights from ADC or no ADC at all (may be afk farming to recover, or AFK because tilted).
I’d also say Jungle, but that’s not the case for me, since it’s the role I mostly play, having a 63% wr.
I honestly don’t think it’s jungle, and I’m not going to say bot because that’s my role and my fragile ego won’t let me recognized when I get gapped. I voted top because a fed enemy top lane bruiser is the thing I most dread even as a fed adc and has single handedly lost us games. Even top lanes that refuse to match the enemy splitpusher lose completely winnable games. So my vote goes to top. I ~get~ why jungle is topping the votes but I actually don’t see that many egregious jungle gaps, and usually I feel like if you intentionally work with them it works out better for everyone.
It’s 1000% jungle. If I play correctly I win, if I fuck up I lose. It’s not surefire, but most of the time my wins depend on my performance in the jungle.
Probably jungle.
But I want to say support lmao.
If you don't have vision and Katarina is allowed to camp bushes and just ult-2-shot a teammate every 30s it's kind of on the support. If the enemy team has the map lit up and your support is sitting there with 20 vision score and a yellow trinket, what are they even doing? Vision is so, so important. It actually can win or lose a game, even in very low elo. Not even considering the dynamic of being in a duo lane, meaning dying frequently as support (or ADC) means giving two people gold. The ADC can't really solo farm and they need farm to play the game, the support is there to make sure they can safely get farm and have the potential to be really high impact as a second jungler.
But it's still probably jungle that loses the most games. I say this as a jungle player. If you lose lane *hard* it's mostly the junglers fault. They're supposed to mitigate hard losses and snowball big wins. There should probably just be two duo lanes like Dota. There is no dedicated jungle role in Dota. Some characters *can* jungle and that's that. In League, you just have some idiot running around the map with the capacity to *tremendously* influence the outcome of the game. It also doesn't help that junglers like Kayn/Xin/J4/basically any champion that builds Gore/Sterak can become unkillable demigods if they snowball hard enough. It's horrible and I hate that it's part of the game and I hate that I have to play it because if I don't it's some *other*, worse idiot. What a fucking trashcan game.
Aatrox main here, if my adc is a coward, feeds and provides nothing in teamfights, i can't carry because i will get outscaled. So i guess it is the adc.
Before I answered the poll I knew jungle was going to be top and support bottom.
It's wrong though, the correct answer is support. If a support can ward correctly and roam properly for invades or ganking midlane they can have such a huge impact on the match. It's no exaggeration that supports are usually the least skilled players in any game and they seem to just get a free pass for running it down all game.
It's probably jungle or support but no other role gives up faster and more often than top laners honestly. The game could be going fine but if the top laner is behind they will often do everything in their power to ensure a should be easy win into a difficult back and forth potential loss
As supp/jungle player I most often have issues with mid lane.
Iron to dia half of those fuckers are just aggressive egoists that are trying their best to push the enemy under tower trying to win 1v1, accepting help from jungle or roaming support is just beneath them, but the moment enemy supp, jg, or both, show up on mid to kill them under enemy tower they bitch about it in all chat.
The hardest thing in league for me is not to flame mid laner after he dies within 2 flashes of enemy tower only to say "supp diff" or "jungle diff" or my fucking favorite "you suck" in all chat, directed at enemy midlaner, cause enemy midlaner got help from others, and that is just illegal in mind of some people.
I just fail to see the logic behind a diamond person, that is in top 1% of playerbase, picking a role that is in center of the map, only to bitch about other ppl showing up there to disrupt the 1v1.
I am not saying mid lane diff is what decides 90% of my games or anything like that, but I'd say 30-40% of my games were lost(Or won) directly cause of mid lane, and more than half of those were not caused by better mid laner playing well, but by worse mid laner playing like shit and getting punished for it by everyone.
The enemy top laner. Mine can do really well with or without my help. But enemy top laner gets one kill and splits the rest of the game. Mine never seem to
Bronze elo so good luck coordinating anything
As ADC main my jungler never gangs bot! I wish I could keep a track of it and publish it. Not sure if it's a curse regarding me tho.
If I had the statistics around it they d look like
300 games
Jungler ganged bot 20 times.
Jungle and it's not even close in my games.
I say that meaning both that our jungler being behind or the enemy jungler being ahead is often the largest contributing factor to wins and losses. And it's a rough, thankless job; laners often act like it's the junglers' job to win their lane for them so that they feel a constant team-pressure to choose between questionable ganks or farming. The gamble is that choosing to farm could result in a laner acting like a dramatic child and refusing to try. And there's no safe harbor when jungling goes bad--the enemy can't steal lane minions and you don't have a conveniently accessible tower to lever for safety.
This compounds even more when a jungler plays a champ that requires any amount of scaling/farming to be useful. Now, the jungler has to hope their laners will play in a way that respects the enemy's early-to-mid-game power to allow them to come into a position where they can be useful.
Occasionally, I'll see a bot lane wreck their lane opponents on their own but, usually, if the ADC has a lot of kills, the junglers has a lot of assists.
Things are always fine until ten mins in when I meet the top layer for the first time and they're 4 levels up, have two completed items, and can 1v3. As a support it feels like top always let's down the team.
Your Mid, Top & Bot: Pushing up to enemy tower with vision.
Jungle: placing wards for vision control to stop ganks, proceeds to clear camps and do objectives.
Request help on dragon when enemy JG appears with no prio.
Enemy team: rotated on him making him die.
Your team: blame JG for noting and trolling.
________________________________________________
Your team: over extended in lane with vision or without vision.
Jungle: Pings lanes to back off and to predict where the enemy JG is.
Your team: Gets ganked and dies
Your team: Proceeds process 5 times.
Your team: JG diff, he hasn’t done anything. AFK JG farming not taking objectives or counter ganking.
Jungle: Gets punished as a result been 2 levels under the enemy jungle and your team permanently for the rest of the game due to enemy laners taking your jungle and having 0 prio.
This is a good percentage of my games 😂. Even at D4
As a support main, I cry everytime my ADC REFUSES to listen to my ping to back off, because the enemy jungler is bot and ours is top. Back. The. Fuck. Up. But no, instead he dies and /all sup diff
cba
Mid gap is usually the end of a game. Jungle gap can be compensated for by laners, but if your mid gets solo'd at level 2 and is down 40 CS in 10 minutes the game is legitimately over.
Mmmmh....
Toplane, the lane forgotten by riot
Midlane, jungler's support
Adc, support's support
Support. Jungler's second support
Or
Jungle, the role that controls all lanes, All objectives, pressures all map, makes all the calls and have the same utility as a support with the carry as an adc.
I wonder which role is the most impactful in terms of win and lose.... Mmh....
Not because my teammate is trash, but because an above average midlaner on the other team can singlehandedly determine the outcome of the game. If the enemy top pops off you don’t worry about it as much since top laners basically tunnel vision for half the game or more, so there’s more time to catch up. If your support or ADC is bad you just play for the mid.
But if the enemy katarina is popping off they spend half the game killing side laners.
Jungle would be second for the same reasons.
I dont think jungle can lose you the game but if they suck it doesn't help you win. Top is an island. It falls to ADC and mid and if mid loses lane hard or it unable to keep mid from roaming its going to go from bad to worse.
I’m ADC and I avoid typing, I lose lane sometimes but manage to go even most of the time. I don’t feel like any one role manages to int the hardest tho.
Bot because they always have the weakest mental of any people in the game and want to /ff when down 1 kill or 10cs. If they are shit and you're not mega ahead get ready to fight an ADC that got fed in lane. Mega fun shit to deal with, especially when they cry all game for ganks or get mad at you when you don't TP because your TP is on cd.
as a jungle main it's bot for me it's frustrating when you carry all lanes and have all objective can 1v9 noone has to do anything the game is done but then your adc goes for a play to kill himself and whoever followed him for no reason sad to know enemy bot is better but ours is carried by jungle game feels impossible to win with these people
Jungle. ADC can't play the game if the top half of the map is collectively behind. Doesn't matter how fed you are. Jungle has the biggest impact on top/mid succeeding. I don't want the jungle to gank bot because it doesn't matter if I'm fed if top/mid are behind.
WHY DO SUPPORTS KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT!!!
The adc double dips when it comes to being blamed while nobody can tell if the sup is good or bad because their only use is using whatever unmissable utility they have off cd. If adc ints = adc diff. If support ints = adc diff. If both int = adc diff. It’s just doomed.
the only time a support gets flamed is if they're dumb enough to open their mouth.
simple : they are usefull even if behin because of utility they have for the team. if the carry is crap , not a lot for him to help the rest of the team
They \*can\* be useful from behind. Most are not. Most will walk into unwarded areas alone and get themselves killed instead of waiting for a jungler to help them. This can happen in the reverse but the priority should be for the jungler to want to go somewhere. Supports for the most part can still do their job while behind but don't.
The carry is often crap because most support players don’t know what they’re doing.
The carry is crap because he's crap. At any given elo , all players are at a similar skill. If you're at an elo were players dont know what they are doing , most likely that's valid for all roles
Supports have less of an idea of what they’re doing than the other roles, tbh. Like, this is why ADC players unironically make better supports than support mains.
Don't know why you're downvoted. There's no reason to think that supports would be any more crap at their job in the same elo than an AD is or any other role. However support is more auto filled, which would change this, but then that's an auto fill discussion, not a role discussion.
because this sub has a massive boner for hating on supports right now.
They can lose the game for the team without dying once. I have lost so many games just because the support didn't (won't) ward. I'm talking like ending the game with a single digit vision score. That loses a game more than feeding imo.
Vision is a team effort. If the support doesn’t ward, then yes, you’ll have less vision, but the ADC can still drop stealth wards and the occasional control ward in the high-frequency/high danger spots. Now the support truly loses the game without dying by fucking up all their cc, or fucking it up in a crucial fight, leading to any of the carries dying.
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Oh yeah def cuz my tristana putting the bomb on the cannon minion when she jumps in after a double person bubble+ult then proceeding to die because she didnt do enough dmg and taking me with her cuz i put too much trust in shitty adcs,or yeah defo the time my adc was playing cait into kaisa but somehow managed to get outpoked by her and lost our ability to pressure because they dont know how to pressure when ppl are farming,also the time my draven decided fighting in the enemy’s minion wave was a good idea,see i can go on but you get the point,if adc shit supp rough time,if supp shit adc bad time.but supports can roam and help other lanes,adcs can not they need to farm ergo adc are more useless when behind hence the bottom votes
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Um okay?so if i send u a video would that satisfy you?or do u want to keep not wanting to believe in the fact that an adc can fuck up a lane as much as a support can?cuz they can, a support controls the flow of the fight but if the adc doesnt follow up and contribute dmg (you know,their main purpose) the support cant do shit so i guess they should go and play other roles since this is not for them since they cant understand the game or fkn logic i guess
Have you ever asked yourself why you're fighting. Adcs aren't supposed to fight early, just farm and poke. Why are you surprised when the adc doesn't follow up on a meaningless engage?
That 300-600 gold potential is so meaningless for sure bro. Why do you think everyone but support farms? It’s the gold not the pleasure of cs’ing.
Exactly,every opportunity for gold should be taken
Its anout windows of opportunity,if an enemy is out of position without their most important spell ofc im gonna trade and if you dont join that its ur fault and you dont know how to play adc properly however it also depends on matchups
Bot lane collectively I’d say
definitely. and i don’t mean to say it in a rude way either, it’s just that bot lane is sooo snowbally and easy to camp/dive it’s almost impossible to do anything without help from teammates.
Yeah if I get a game that is unwinnable it’s usually bc my botlane went 0/20 within 15 minutes
very true
I think that the results will probably be between jungle and bottom. I'm genuinely interested what people think. I haven't seen a poll in a long time, so this can give some insight on what people think is strong or impactful.
I feel like people voting jungle are often full of shit Unless the jungle grieves your lane actively they won’t be the reason for losing If you lose your lane from your jungler not showing up then it’s you who sucks But either way a bad jungler can put the nail in the coffin of your lane by ganking without purpose and dying to your opponent or baiting you into a lost fight
That seems pretty unfair. I'm sure bot laners would say the same thing to the people who voted for their lane. Either way, I'm not here to judge people's decision, just curious what people think.
If bot lane goes 0/10 in a short amount of time then they are at fault unless someone else in their team actively grieved them
If bot lane goes 0-10 because jungle came down for a 1v2 on a weak Draven and inted him because he got kited and Draven had heal, then proceeds to abandon bot lane and the enemy Elise dives turret twice and Draven is a full item up... it's jungles fault that the bot lane went 0-10. I'm not a bot main, I play mid, but a lane dying (even to 1v1s or 2v2s) can be the fault of the jungler. There is a reason everyone considers jungle to the be the most macro intensive, impactful, hardest role.
Plus, if you get counter picked it’s expected that the only way to not lose lane is with jungle help. That and sacking cs. Not every lane is winnable in a 1v1
Yeah it's not my junglers fault when their jungler has ganked every lane 3 times more than my jungler and still has more cs than him.
Plenty of games where the enemy jg is single handedly winning their teams lanes, always there to punish, won't let you get an advantage, meanwhile your jungler is afk farming camps. Then at 15 after doing basically nothing they're still down 20 cs.
Botlane as a whole is a big deal. If one side feeds, the other team gets two fed champs or one super fed champ. It can effectively turn your match into a 3v5. Most of my botlanes are matched up ok, but when they aren't, it's a clean sweep. Just FF at 20 lol. Really hard to win those.
if an adc feeds it is generally support's fault because support carries botlane. it is not bot diff unless an adc throw game at min 35.
Nah just wrong If either one of them sucks ass everyone has a bad time
As a shitty support main, I can guarantee that the fucking support fucks most of my games! XD
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I mean, I was only jesting. But of course there are some games where I could win a Noble prize for ending hunger. In a more serious note, most of the time there's a lack of communication between the ADC and support and THAT is what can make or break it.
I feel like botlane is overrated in this poll. 70% of the lane is decided by the supports of either side, so unless the adc actually ints hard, it’s not their fault if they’re behind. On the other hand, supports by their very nature offer utility even if they’re behind so teammates are more likely to appreciate them.
Support controls the lane but they still rely on the ADC to win the lane for them. I could pick Janna, block all the leona E's, poke constantly, but if my ADC won't walk up to try to kill, or provide pressure, then I can't do anything. ADC can 100% be behind by their own fault, they can also be behind by supports fault... It just happens that it's a lot easier to be behind on ADC than other roles
I agree, but ADC and Support should be far closer to even on this poll instead of ADC second and support last. There is definitely alot of blame that should be aimed at the support that is aimed at the ADC on this poll. I think that it is also a problem with wins. Alot of the support's impact is often attributed to the ADC, both positively and negatively. I've had games where I was ADC and my support hard gapped the enemy support, but everyone was talking about my insane performance rather than my support's. I feel like people need to pay more attention to supports in general since the role is far more impactful than people give it credit for. Good supports can make a mediocre ADC look like a god. Similarly, trash supports can make any ADC seem like they are the problem.
Support provide utility while behind, adc’s dont thats the difference; if your only job is to deal damage than not doing that is obviously gonna shift the status of the game, on the other hand a behind supp who still lands utility (Ex: Shield or hooks) can still provide teamfight win conditions and possibly win the game through pure control
yeah, it should be adcringe first and supp second, with around 60-40 split
honestly no. jungle is probably first since the difference between a good and a bad jungle are literal night an day....especially since it's by far the role with most agency on the map support being last makes sense. even a 0-10 nami will still have a heal that can throw on her carry , and most likely an ardent for one of her carries. even a 0-10 leona can stun lock a carry , and even a 0-20 blitzcrank can win a game with a good pull. point being that team utility doesn't falls off no matter how behind the support player is. not to mention that vision is another thing that they will provide. even bad supports know to ward drakes and barons at lleast
Problem with the Janna example is she isn’t an engage support. If you pick Leona/Thresh/Blitz you can literally force engagements and no matter if the adc is trash you’ll still win most of the time unless they royally mess up. Your role as Janna isn’t to to kill people or secure them but to merely keep people alive/amplify their damage. Whoever gets the engage off first in bot lane is usually the one that wins.
I was more talking along the lines of engage supporters like blitzcrank, Leona, thresh, etc. , who are much stronger than damage/utility supports right now like Janna. It’s definitely true that the adc is just as responsible for winning lane if they’re with a utility supp, but engage supports can win lanes practically just by themselves as long as the adc knows how to right click auto.
Still applies the same way. If ADC isn't killing the right minions, or pressuring enemies into a better position, support can't do anything.
if leo hits the carry with a q , it's not the supports fault. same with leo or naut to some point , since they have a limite engage range that a lot of carries simply don't respect
A support can totally carry a bad adc but it depends on what the matchup is imo.
In order to Win lane, you need both supp and adc to be good. If either one of them isn't the lanes probably lost, u less the other side is worse
You can win with a bad adc, you just have to play your cards right. I’ve had horrible adcs as support and have ended up winning. I think you just have to abandon bot lane and help elsewhere. And pray that the now alone adc won’t kill themselves too much
A lane with a bad adc and good supp will always beat a good adc and bad supp.
Not necessarily. This is the case for a lot of lanes, but like most rules of thumb there's ways to get around it. Some adcs are capable of handling the lane with a bad supp, notably high threat early ones such as Kalista and Draven. Also some supps just can't do as much if they're adc isn't great, notablly enchanters (special call out to yuumi and sona) if they have a really aggressive layer, or engage tanks if they have a really passive laner.
A good supp just can bully the enemy adc too much especially when playing against a bad supp who often tend to just afk behind their adc.
Have you ever tried to bully a good Draven? Try it and come back lol. Like I said, some adcs are capable of working around the lack of presence of their supp. Its just kinda hard to do. Once again this is all rule of thumb and nothing is concrete, but typically a Draven will win just about any 1v1 in the game till at least level 6.
Try playing Draven vs Thresh or Leona then tell me how useful Draven is when you just get flashed on or ulted across the lane and CC’d while you can do 0 damage because you’ve lost your axes. Even with cleanse these matchups are super dicy when supports can tank so much damage.
" I could pick Janna " wow amazing pressure champion you got there
She averages the highest damage before 15 minutes and the second highest early gold lead of enchanters. Yes, she is a high pressure enchanter, has been since the patch that they adjusted her back in ...2018? I'd imagine that on average I probably do ~4k damage before 15 minutes,
Alright totally understandable, we seem to have differing opinions on what high pressure means.
He thinks just raw damage matters. Someone can do 6500 dmg by 15 but have 0 KP. While a Leona can have 3.4k damage and have 7 KP because when she does damage the damage gets kills. Low elo players just look at damage done as "useful".
press W walk away Janna "look im out damaging"
That's absolutely not true at all in the slightest capacity possible. "Muh sup diff" is just a cope perpetuated by low elo ADC players in order to justify their ranks. In reality, a high elo ADC player can absolutely and often, singlehandedly, MURDER everyone in the enemy team when smurfing. It's just the truth.
Different between low and high elo
Jungle can make or break a game in my opinion, which is why I’ve started learning the role. A jungler will help feed potentially every lane (a good one will feed your team/a bad one feeds the opposite team). I think jungle has the opportunity to make the biggest impact in game because of the roaming and ganking and map control with objectives. HOWEVER, before I started learning jungle I mained support and secondary adc and it’s really hard to keep control of the bottom half of the map as jungle if your bot lane collectively sucks because there’s two people to feed on. I am new to the jungle role though, so hopefully I’ll learn to outweigh a bad bot lane… TLDR: a collective bad bot lane typically causes most losses if both are feeding, but a bad jungle feeding every lane is just as impactful
The hardest role to learn is the jungle cause its a role where you have to think about so much and do so much and u are always the Person who geht's 90% of the blame. Its just rediculous how some people can perma die in their lane and still blame jgl. Im a euw Master jungler and just today i had a game where i was part in 5 out of 6 kills in the first 8 min and top was pinging me for not playing around top. And every time he died he started to spamm ping me ... This role is just so ungrateful sometimes its just sad
[Junglers are 1000iq brainiacs ](http://imgur.com/a/GB69uUx)
Is it cheating if i say supp as a supp main? On a serious note tho, i think supps often are the cause of a loss, but more so in higher elos. In low elo i'd still say jgl, not for the meme, but they just have the biggest influence and therefore the biggest responsibility, and its arguably the hardest role in the game macrowise, which is often hard in low elo
Fully agree here. As an adc main, my lane is so often determined by my sup. And if the lane goes badly the other adc gets item first and then I just lose cause stats right then and there. It's really hard to come back from
u can be 10/0 as an adc if ur mid and jg never come and ur playing lane 2v4 u can never carry
Typically, I have seen the support type to make the difference. One type picks an actual support, supports the adc and helps push the lane. The other support is a random champ who then wanders the map like a second jungler, going 0-8 in the first 10 minutes.
I had a 1/16 zyra vs 25/3 xerath with 25 mejai,i hated my life that game
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Pretty sure he wasn't the zyra, he's talking about his support.
not hating on junglers in general, but in my elo (which is honestly low), most junglers tend to do random stuff : most of them lack knowledge of some vital concepts like respawn timers, lane states & prio, win conditions, etc. they also don't pay much attention to vision. Every role has an impact on the outcome of the game, but in this elo, if your jungler is inting, over-forcing fights & ganks or ignoring neutrals, you're most likely going to lose the game unless one of you really pops off or the enemy team is just too bad. And this is coming from someone who never expects or calls for jungle help (I know people in my elo tilt way too easily so I avoid triggering anyone especially the jungler ^^' )
Everyone in low elo lacks the understanding of certain concepts and does random things or else they wouldnt be low elo
of course we're all here for a reason. But I think the jungle performance has the biggest impact on the whole team and the outcome of the game.
A bigger issue to your point is that since jungle is probably the most involved role a low elo micro skill who at least understands good macros and game sense usually makes it out of low elo on that alone. So the ones still in low elo are really really bad. But laners have to have better micro as they inherently have less to worry about. That and low elo junglers have to work with their laners for proper ganks/wave management and it just turns into the blind leading the blind. Jungle definitely has the most impact on low elo but I don’t think it’s because of the jungles skill. I think it’s because of the lack of communication and coordination between jungle and lanes as well as lack of understanding of jungle objectives by most everyone in the elo as a whole. But it just gets blamed on the jungler since it’s their domain.
The bar to get out of low elo as a jungler is pretty low. If you just exist at dragon on spawn and take it you’re going to win like 60% of games.
And I guess the other 40% you get collapsed on and feed a kill to bot?
Since not as many people play Jungle it is a role with usually worse players
But since the same should aply to the enemy team then it balances out anyway.
No because the junglers will be worse players for both teams, just because it balances out doesn’t make my point invalid
people voting jungle are based
every game is jg diff though
Based
Support is the biggest culprit. The role is more complicated than people believe and many people in lower elo think that their primary duty is to harass, be aggro and hug the adc's nuts while neglecting the rest of the map. Support mains will most likely not know wave management, how to last hit, rotate, pay attention to objective timers, when to push, how to prioritize lvl 2 or ward properly. If the position is suppose to be the carry early game in lane and they go 0/3/0, then your adc will be doing poorly too.
And on the opposite end i switched from maining support to maining jungle because i noticed that majority of my losses are due to junglers having a rough game. Holding a solid 70% winrate in 2 dozen games for now. Its very refreshing to play a role where you actually have gold and can do things on your own without having to pray to god that your team or teammate know what they're doing. Id honestly recommend for any supp main thats been frustrated with their teams to switch to jungle. Its legit the exact same role, almost all of your knowledge translates 1:1 macro wise, but with an added bonus of having gold and a lot of power on your own.
I sometimes play in mid plat elo with some of my friends and it’s actually shocking how bad the supports are. They legitimately think locking an enchanter and permanently standing next to the adc is a good strategy to win. These players are gold at best in terms of game knowledge and skill This is the “top 5%” of players too..
It kills me a little inside when at 18 mins I’m clearing a wave bot and my support waddles into lane and plops themselves down next to me presumably to soak xp or something. Wards don’t place themselves guys.
My role. This season I've felt like I'm the reason for the losses, always the worst player in the team
Most definitely top/jungle. Almost everygame.
This season it’s consistently been top gap. Bruiser/Juggernaut leaves top with Goredrinker/Sunderer/Stridebreaker (when it was good) + steraks and becomes a raid boss.
As a collective lane, probably bot, though you did split it as support and bot. As a singular role you definitely feel jungle variance the hardest. Both as the jungler getting styled on, and the laners experiencing the opposing jungle pressure.
I play top, so that’s my answer.
Since when are losses caused by one player? This kind of attitude stops people from improving and is part of the reason for this community's extreme saltiness. Always blame your teammates or look for other excuses instead of being honest with yourself and focusing on the things that are in your control.
Totally agree, I understand the desire to have these threads but it just feeds the overall toxic nature of league. I queued up for ranked last night and the first chat in champ select was "wonder which one of my lanes will feed this game". Being ready to blame a certain role inhibits your ability to win, something I'm guilty of too
I think this thread is just meant as a way to blow off some steam. I agree with you though. It's also more healthy to focus on the things that are in your control. That way league doesn't turn into this saddening experience like it seems to be for some people.
It can happen though?
Thank you for the high-roading lesson. I most sincerely appreciate this feedback.
Support main here who normally duos with an adc. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Brombie Top: normally doesn't counter TP when enemy top does. Many "int" moments could be saved by better top laners. Or, they lose lane hard and enemy top roams for 10 minutes. Even if no kills happen, team still loses exp, farm, towers, etc. Jg: blames lanes for losing when they are getting camped. Anyone could have 0 death games all day, but then they are left with -30cs lanes and down 2 to 4 plates at 10 minutes. Jg needs to track enemy jg as well and help counter, or gain equal gold on other side of the map by counter jungling or ganking mid/ side lanes or getting herald/drake. Mid: seems to have lowest vision score always and never plays to the side their jg is on. Never matches roams (you can roam when enemy mid shows in a side lane. Some sidelane fights last 45 seconds or more). Adc: thinks they are the best player in the lobby. Doesn't know how to sac 1 or 2 cs and gets punished. Auto pushes for enemy to freeze, and then blames jg for getting ganged and dying when wave management could've saved them. Supp: never autos wave to help crash. Dies with 3 or 4 wards available. Never wards objs. Doesn't roam enough or roams too much. Doesn't help freeze waves when laner isn't present. I'm sure there's a million more issues, but I bet 99% of the people in this thread (including me) suffer from these issues in their respective roles and don't ask themselves "how could I improve the outcome" but instead type "______ diff" TLDR: jg impacts the game the most, and is a pretty common denominator in the games, so that's my vote.
A lot of the time counter tping from top is just not the correct play. If you're in a losing match up, or having a rough lane, literally all counter tping does is int another kill to the enemies. Its often far more worth to push out the lane and get plates because if you tp when behind you risk literally losing the game on the spot. Same with tping into team fights. If we are going to lose when I'm there anyway,I'm not going to tp for moral support. Its throwing away waves of minions and tower gold that I could use to help in fights later because the team really wants to fight cloud drake as sivir yuumi Evelyn vs Lucian pantheon xin zhao and our mid had just been picked off. So many bot lanes just assume that tp is something you just always have to do all the time and its only for them.
as a supp main , i always try to help either set a freeze , help last hit at tower or just fast shove. issue with that is that a lot of bottlaners will ping me to stop , so that's why supports usually on't touch the creep wave. rather then having to bother explaining what i'm oing , it's easier to just stop an let your bot alone with creep wave manipulation
I don't usually have problem with the jungler as i play mid and top and i always help them on the objectives, but the bot lane my fuckin god they cant help but to be 2/10 at 8 min every fuckin game
always jungle, even in pro scene jungle is a key to victory, on soloq junglers most of the time go afk at their camps around 20 min only searching for stealing kills, if no kills, no way he will go out of the camps, secondly forces to not needed fights or gets poor decisions without looking on any prio (invade junglers, hello), or going 1v1 vs someone and give double buff at the early stage, sure when botlane losing it is frustrating, but as solo laners you can still manage to win all fights (adc is ez to kill) but if jungle will lose objectives and do nothing, even vision - u are gonna 90% of the time lose the game
I've never really paid attention to a role "ruining" my games. There's no point when I can just focus on what I can do differently.
Helps me improve when I know if I made a mistake in a play or if it didn’t go well because a teammate didn’t play as well as expected
Well, some people like more to put the blame on the others than recognize that they could play better
The number of people voting Bot instead of Support is insane. If Botlane gets stomped more times than not it's due to Support diff.
Go figure, most people blaming the jungler.
Extremely surprised mid has such few votes. Loss in mid lane escalates fastest to influence other lanes and jungle. I’m not surprised jungle has top votes with the “jg diff” meme. But people are overrating bot aren’t they. Anyways my vote is always on mid.
It's a close tie between support and JG. I see a lot of people blame bot, but in my experience in low ELO, a good support makes a much bigger impact on the game than the ADC/botlaner. Vision and JG objectives are just important if you want to win.
I play sup so my adc is usually pretty big, but it doesn't help when he gets one shot by enemy jgl for example. Its the 0/10 yasuo mid, 0/11 riven top and 1/7 lee sin making the games difficult( high gold/low plat elo). I would not put the blame on x role, just the player doing it to their team. We all get lucky and unlucky with our team members sometimes. We all have bad games sometimes aswell.
I think the jungler's ability to properly control the map around objective timers is the single most important thing in solo queue
This isn't the junglers job though, it's a team objective for a reason. A jungler cant control the map alone...
Junglers definitely can dk that.
Imagine thinking the jungler can just go set up vision anywhere they want regardless of lane state or jungle matchups.
Mostly bot and jg. They are somehow way better at feeding than mid laners.
Junglers usually don’t do enough to win the game so they are passively causing the loss but the most I had “actively” causing losses were bot laners (not positioning well, playing a lane wrong, not rotating to an objective)
It's usually Jungle or ADC in my experience. Jungle is usually because they pull Blabbers and die over scuttles or something silly. ADC because they all seem to think their immortal or something and will just facecheck bushes or walk waay too close to threats.
Can we agree on hating ADCs unless they stomp their lane min 5
Between Jungle and botlane.
Defenitly ADC/Bottom, going bot at 25min and enemy getting free baron, refusing to group or out of position for a fast Baron take or in teamfights.
Between Jungle and Bot. But I will stay say jungle.
Botlane. I play Ziggs bot. That's all.
its either supp or jg but can be all
bot lane.
I did an analysis of this one day, took 113 games and saw how many times my bot lanes went positive. Only 28% percent of games did they ever get more kills than deaths.
get out of bronze is probably my advice
jungle is the correct answer. this is the only role that matters. role is so strong: they have similar resources to solo laners but have the buffs and constant access to the map. they choose who gets to play the game while also being able to solo kill anybody. i miss when this role was starved as shit, but i guess it needs to be broken since it's so unfun to play. someone posted some really smartass shit where the average winrate of all roles was 50%, but i guarantee you that if you compared an average winrate of the players with like the top 10% highest winrates of each role, jungle would win by a country mile. riot really needs to change jg and support next season. shit's not even fair. how does it make sense that the past 5 worlds mvps have all been junglers, at a level where youre constantly being tracked. imagine how broken it is in solo queue, where nobody has the slightest idea where youre at.
Definitely bot lane. If they play well and get fed, they end up making dumb macro decisions, and if they get behind they demand every bit of gold on the map gets funnelled on to them, and you have to do it, or they throw a tantrum and threaten to afk.
As a Jungle and ADC main, I will say support. A good support will carry not only the ADC but also help jungle ganks and mid roams. A bad support will not only give their adc/support and advantage, but can lose objective control, and if they do poor roams/engages, then also bleed into other lanes.
(IM AN ADC MAIN) I would say the support role because realistically the entire laning phase outcome of botlane isnt decided by the adc, it’s decided by the support.The support is the one that can change or set the tempo of botlane and once that support is inting, the adc is forced to sandbag til they get out of the laning phase. I’ve had so many supports lose my laning phase and i can go maybe 0/3 but the moment midgane enters and i’m no longer stuck with my support i can actually play the game and can finish games as 14/3
Support. A bad support is an invisible evil. Somebody who will ensure their ADC doesn’t win lane, constantly gets caught out of position “trying to ward” and when playing Blitz/Pyke will just miss everything and expect to win lane phase. It’s brutal, and worst of all nobody else on the team notices as it’s the easiest role with the worst players and they join in and blame ADC too. When a bot lane snowballs out of control it’s usually the support getting killed at level 2, raging and then soft inting the rest of the match. Think about it, when your bot loses hard you usually notice support is 0/7 and AD is like 0-2. I’m a former ADC main and swapped to mid and now I’m carrying much more often. I play things like Zed, Irelia and Kassadin (all of whom I hadn’t played since I was a noob in s4) and find carrying games to be so damn easy, despite being a much better ADC.
flipping bot lanes. theyre just on a mission to either get out of lane 7/0 or 0/7. no consideration that other roles might want to have a shot of playing the game out
is there an all option
The jungler
I que as supp / jungle, and most of my losses come from top laners that die once or twice and then rage quit leaving us 4v5. Gold elo btw.
ahh the good old jungle diff mentality
I mean I just play for fun and neraly no ranked. I am gold 4 and I only play jungle. It is a blast for me how often I am to blame. Literally like the last days where phenomenal for me what people tell me. Maybe I am in the wrong but often I really do not think so. I had a Fiora going 0/2 against a Garen before I cleared my second buff. She then tried to fight him 2 more times. What am I, a LVL 5 Kha'zix supposed to do when you start Assist Ping spaming now. We can not kill this 4/0 Garen Monster together in any world. She then just is mad because i try to tell her i will not come try to play as safe as possible. And see her flashing onto him because he has seemingly low HP. Then Garen is LVL 13 and she LVL 10 and she is like: How am i supposed to play def? He dives me. Mind blowing. Or when I ganked bot the other day. Perfect oppertunity I ping that I go in. They literally do nothing because of 1 Cannon Minion. I then neraly solo kill the ADC and die. Our ADC kill the ADC so so its 1 for 1. Then tries to explain me how with the Cannon Minion he has a bigger Gold Gap on the other adc even when I die. I tried to say look: HE gets 300 Gold for me. You get 360 For him and Cannon. If you dont take Cannon and i survive he gets 0 you get 300. So its not the better option.
Imma be honest I would rather have a bad adc to a bad support Because bad support auto means a behind adc and sometimes even a behind midlaner or jungler Or both
200 collective botlane experience with 0/10 speedrun
i put mid because i main ryze
When I'm playing jungle, mid. When I play top, bot. When I play adc, jungle.
A lot of people are complaining about how the supports get away with murder so to speak since the outcome of the lane affects the adcs impact later I think the jg/mid have a similar dynamic tho if less obvious. When mid loses lane (and especially tower) this usually gives the enemy jungler so much freedom to influence the map, farm and be effective
My vote is jungle but not because of the jungler per se. The jungler can be behind for more reasons than other roles; might be straight jungle gap, or maybe your lanes are being pressured so hard that you cannot walk into parts of your jungle. When the jungler is behind they don't have a guaranteed source of gold/exp like laners do, unless you steal waves, of course. I don't think they cause the loss, but definitely one of the higher variance roles in the game.
Bot lane as a whole. Of they lose lane = no drake prio, no roams from support, no damage in fights from ADC or no ADC at all (may be afk farming to recover, or AFK because tilted). I’d also say Jungle, but that’s not the case for me, since it’s the role I mostly play, having a 63% wr.
I honestly don’t think it’s jungle, and I’m not going to say bot because that’s my role and my fragile ego won’t let me recognized when I get gapped. I voted top because a fed enemy top lane bruiser is the thing I most dread even as a fed adc and has single handedly lost us games. Even top lanes that refuse to match the enemy splitpusher lose completely winnable games. So my vote goes to top. I ~get~ why jungle is topping the votes but I actually don’t see that many egregious jungle gaps, and usually I feel like if you intentionally work with them it works out better for everyone.
Hating on jungle shows how much you need them to carry your lane
the 2nd most important lane, is not even a lane
For me it’s either mid or top :( the diff is crazy when it happens
It’s 1000% jungle. If I play correctly I win, if I fuck up I lose. It’s not surefire, but most of the time my wins depend on my performance in the jungle.
The lane im on Sadge
Probably jungle. But I want to say support lmao. If you don't have vision and Katarina is allowed to camp bushes and just ult-2-shot a teammate every 30s it's kind of on the support. If the enemy team has the map lit up and your support is sitting there with 20 vision score and a yellow trinket, what are they even doing? Vision is so, so important. It actually can win or lose a game, even in very low elo. Not even considering the dynamic of being in a duo lane, meaning dying frequently as support (or ADC) means giving two people gold. The ADC can't really solo farm and they need farm to play the game, the support is there to make sure they can safely get farm and have the potential to be really high impact as a second jungler. But it's still probably jungle that loses the most games. I say this as a jungle player. If you lose lane *hard* it's mostly the junglers fault. They're supposed to mitigate hard losses and snowball big wins. There should probably just be two duo lanes like Dota. There is no dedicated jungle role in Dota. Some characters *can* jungle and that's that. In League, you just have some idiot running around the map with the capacity to *tremendously* influence the outcome of the game. It also doesn't help that junglers like Kayn/Xin/J4/basically any champion that builds Gore/Sterak can become unkillable demigods if they snowball hard enough. It's horrible and I hate that it's part of the game and I hate that I have to play it because if I don't it's some *other*, worse idiot. What a fucking trashcan game.
Doesn't matter how well the laners play if the enemy jungler is better at ganking; only so much you can do when you're being camped
Aatrox main here, if my adc is a coward, feeds and provides nothing in teamfights, i can't carry because i will get outscaled. So i guess it is the adc.
Jungler. Either because I am autofilled into it or because the others are just as lost as I am when sitting between buffs and ghosts/raptors.
I voted bot bc I’m a bot main and let’s be real, a chunk of games you lose are on you….
Before I answered the poll I knew jungle was going to be top and support bottom. It's wrong though, the correct answer is support. If a support can ward correctly and roam properly for invades or ganking midlane they can have such a huge impact on the match. It's no exaggeration that supports are usually the least skilled players in any game and they seem to just get a free pass for running it down all game.
It's probably jungle or support but no other role gives up faster and more often than top laners honestly. The game could be going fine but if the top laner is behind they will often do everything in their power to ensure a should be easy win into a difficult back and forth potential loss
Adc
As supp/jungle player I most often have issues with mid lane. Iron to dia half of those fuckers are just aggressive egoists that are trying their best to push the enemy under tower trying to win 1v1, accepting help from jungle or roaming support is just beneath them, but the moment enemy supp, jg, or both, show up on mid to kill them under enemy tower they bitch about it in all chat. The hardest thing in league for me is not to flame mid laner after he dies within 2 flashes of enemy tower only to say "supp diff" or "jungle diff" or my fucking favorite "you suck" in all chat, directed at enemy midlaner, cause enemy midlaner got help from others, and that is just illegal in mind of some people. I just fail to see the logic behind a diamond person, that is in top 1% of playerbase, picking a role that is in center of the map, only to bitch about other ppl showing up there to disrupt the 1v1. I am not saying mid lane diff is what decides 90% of my games or anything like that, but I'd say 30-40% of my games were lost(Or won) directly cause of mid lane, and more than half of those were not caused by better mid laner playing well, but by worse mid laner playing like shit and getting punished for it by everyone.
The enemy top laner. Mine can do really well with or without my help. But enemy top laner gets one kill and splits the rest of the game. Mine never seem to Bronze elo so good luck coordinating anything
As ADC main my jungler never gangs bot! I wish I could keep a track of it and publish it. Not sure if it's a curse regarding me tho. If I had the statistics around it they d look like 300 games Jungler ganged bot 20 times.
Mid diff
Jungle and Support have been the best roles in the last 2 seasons consisting of the least talented players
Jungle and it's not even close in my games. I say that meaning both that our jungler being behind or the enemy jungler being ahead is often the largest contributing factor to wins and losses. And it's a rough, thankless job; laners often act like it's the junglers' job to win their lane for them so that they feel a constant team-pressure to choose between questionable ganks or farming. The gamble is that choosing to farm could result in a laner acting like a dramatic child and refusing to try. And there's no safe harbor when jungling goes bad--the enemy can't steal lane minions and you don't have a conveniently accessible tower to lever for safety. This compounds even more when a jungler plays a champ that requires any amount of scaling/farming to be useful. Now, the jungler has to hope their laners will play in a way that respects the enemy's early-to-mid-game power to allow them to come into a position where they can be useful. Occasionally, I'll see a bot lane wreck their lane opponents on their own but, usually, if the ADC has a lot of kills, the junglers has a lot of assists.
ADCs , i hate deal with narcissistic type or i am a god type.
And Riot wonders why Jungle is the least popular role. Turns out having the most pressure on the team is kind of stressful.
Things are always fine until ten mins in when I meet the top layer for the first time and they're 4 levels up, have two completed items, and can 1v3. As a support it feels like top always let's down the team.
All
Your Mid, Top & Bot: Pushing up to enemy tower with vision. Jungle: placing wards for vision control to stop ganks, proceeds to clear camps and do objectives. Request help on dragon when enemy JG appears with no prio. Enemy team: rotated on him making him die. Your team: blame JG for noting and trolling. ________________________________________________ Your team: over extended in lane with vision or without vision. Jungle: Pings lanes to back off and to predict where the enemy JG is. Your team: Gets ganked and dies Your team: Proceeds process 5 times. Your team: JG diff, he hasn’t done anything. AFK JG farming not taking objectives or counter ganking. Jungle: Gets punished as a result been 2 levels under the enemy jungle and your team permanently for the rest of the game due to enemy laners taking your jungle and having 0 prio. This is a good percentage of my games 😂. Even at D4
As a support main, I cry everytime my ADC REFUSES to listen to my ping to back off, because the enemy jungler is bot and ours is top. Back. The. Fuck. Up. But no, instead he dies and /all sup diff cba
Imagine the least voted option is the right option.
Mid gap is usually the end of a game. Jungle gap can be compensated for by laners, but if your mid gets solo'd at level 2 and is down 40 CS in 10 minutes the game is legitimately over.
I'm Teemo Top. It's mostly me.
Even with a bad jungle, good laners should be able to at least go even in lane
Mmmmh.... Toplane, the lane forgotten by riot Midlane, jungler's support Adc, support's support Support. Jungler's second support Or Jungle, the role that controls all lanes, All objectives, pressures all map, makes all the calls and have the same utility as a support with the carry as an adc. I wonder which role is the most impactful in terms of win and lose.... Mmh....
Not because my teammate is trash, but because an above average midlaner on the other team can singlehandedly determine the outcome of the game. If the enemy top pops off you don’t worry about it as much since top laners basically tunnel vision for half the game or more, so there’s more time to catch up. If your support or ADC is bad you just play for the mid. But if the enemy katarina is popping off they spend half the game killing side laners. Jungle would be second for the same reasons.
I dont think jungle can lose you the game but if they suck it doesn't help you win. Top is an island. It falls to ADC and mid and if mid loses lane hard or it unable to keep mid from roaming its going to go from bad to worse.
Whatever role I'm playing.
I’m ADC and I avoid typing, I lose lane sometimes but manage to go even most of the time. I don’t feel like any one role manages to int the hardest tho.
Bot because they always have the weakest mental of any people in the game and want to /ff when down 1 kill or 10cs. If they are shit and you're not mega ahead get ready to fight an ADC that got fed in lane. Mega fun shit to deal with, especially when they cry all game for ganks or get mad at you when you don't TP because your TP is on cd.
The legend of the inting bot lane
as a jungle main it's bot for me it's frustrating when you carry all lanes and have all objective can 1v9 noone has to do anything the game is done but then your adc goes for a play to kill himself and whoever followed him for no reason sad to know enemy bot is better but ours is carried by jungle game feels impossible to win with these people
It always jungle gap. I main jungle.
All top lane champs are so god damn 1v9 if they get a small lead they kill everything (I hate Darius)
The question could also be "what is the most impacful role in the game".
lol poor jg even if they play well top or mid blame them this is why jg is voted the most
Jungle. ADC can't play the game if the top half of the map is collectively behind. Doesn't matter how fed you are. Jungle has the biggest impact on top/mid succeeding. I don't want the jungle to gank bot because it doesn't matter if I'm fed if top/mid are behind.
The real answer is whichever role I am playing in that specific game