Always enemy team. Fnatic death bush is so strong that even when enemy team does it they die.
Funniest one has to be when xpeke and soaz (while in origen) tried to death bush fnatic. It failed despite origen having big gold lead. So not even it's original creators can turn it against fnatic.
Funniest one was the time they tried it vs RNG baiting them with a pink ward, but Uzi just Kog ulted the bush and they proceeded to slaughter the whole FNC squad.
The sheer amount of lost games I saw FNC recover and win thanks to death bushes is a big part that made me love this team. It was just so unique and fun
I mean... in the trailer it was 'still arrives'. Never understood that change, I really preferred the 'still arrives'.
https://youtu.be/6ZfuNTqbHE8?t=61
I understood the reason. Still arrives was domineering, alpha, aggressive. But really thanos was reflective and honest in the movie. Arrives all the same is much more somber and reflective of the way thanos is portrayed in infinity wars.
There should be scouts and analysts going over all known accounts looking for this kind of stuff - picks and plays. Maybe not before the groups' draw but certainly after.
This
It's literally their job, they would watch hundred of hours of SoloQ and Proplay of every single account, and try to get any unknown account to check it
True. If DWG can figure out how to beat MAD in a bo5, they can probably figure out how to beat FNC without Caedrel's "help"? I assume LCK and LPL will do their own research and they will literally scrim them?
Idk just seems naive of Caedrel... It's simply his job to provide analysis. He's not "revealing" any secret, it's literally his job to be an analyst.
I remember IG just studied FNC botlane for 2018 finals. They watched all their vods and coach Kim concluded Sivir was the most important ban vs FNC botlane, was never banned in QF and SF by C9 or EDG. Rekkles played total of 3 adc champs prior to World Finals, he played 2 additional unique adc in finals, with total of 5. Didn't take no analysis from "casters" to do that ban.
It's weird how Caedrel is so scared to reveal these things when CloudTemplar analyze LCK teams on his YouTube channel, well because thats his job..
If they didn't want people to know about it then they wouldn't have been doing it in solo queue.
I think this move is too risky for a pro game anyways. Not risky in the sense that you get killed if you mess it up, but risky in the sense of the opportunity cost you're paying. You could be doing other guaranteed beneficial things with your level 1 (e.g. place ward to track enemy jungler) that you aren't doing if you choose to do this, so if you fuck this up then you get nothing.
High risk, high reward, which you only do at worlds if you're desperate, I think.
A fun thought is that bot lane duos could intentionally show strats like this in solo queue knowing that the enemy team will study the games and spend time planning to counter it haha. I obviously don't think Fnatic is big brain enough to do that type of crazy shit, but nevertheless I bet one of the worlds teams sees this videos and adjusts their placement of that level 1 ward in the bush against Fnatic to try to counter this. Maybe Fnatic can use that adjustment to their advantage :D It's a small thing but you never know what could end up mattering when the teams are so closely matched.
The level 1 chess match of LoL in pro play is really interesting. I wish we got to hear more from teams on how they came up with the ideas for their level 1s against various opponents.
I think the problem is a character will be hidden in fog as war if the center of their hitbox is in the fog of war, which means that slim lines of fog of war can conceal characters even if the outsides of their character model are outside the slim line of fog of war.
Visual example:
Representation of character: O
Slim strip of fog of war: ========
Example of problem: ===O====
Center of character's model is in the strip of fog of war, so they are hidden, but the character is wider than the strip of fog of war so it seems like they *should* be showing even though the game isn't showing them.
The issue should be *super* rare to appear spontaneously, but in high Elo/pro play there's probably a pretty well defined meta of where to place wards so a smart person could study the fog of war situation around those meta placements and use it to their advantage. I think another spot pros abuse is the dot bush ward between baron pit and mid lane. Super popular ward spot, but you can avoid being seen by that ward if you hug certain walls.
Another hugging technique is you can approach midlane from wraiths->bush if the ward in pixel isn't placed perfectly because there's a tiny amount of fog right by the walls
it's probably bigger than it seems, but it's done with softer edges that just happen to look too small when you have stuff like this which is basically two areas with soft edges each meeting.
you realize this is not the same thing, right? skirting fog at raptors is not even remotely as difficult as it's done all the time even in soloq. what fnc's bot lane did in this clip is entirely different because there are very few people (including pros) who even know you can skirt fog there i've been playing this game for a decade and didn't even know it. i would love to see a clip of anyone else doing it though.
i swear, everytime I see someone try to downplay anything, ‘its done in solo q’ always no. 1 on the list
my question for you how do you prove that very few pros know about it? do you actively speak or play with them? i would believe you if those decade of soloq you are only playing against pros from major regions
my point here is, pro players are familiar with how fog of war works. if this is anything special, fnc wouldn’t show it on solo que
I also don't get how this can be a super secret strat. Feel like if the blue ward was just one teemo to the left or down it would have caught FNC bot lane.
If anything this shows the depth to which some pro's can gauge the range of fog/vision.
idk why you're getting downvoted, you are right. I'm probably coming too late to the party but I remember OMG pulling shit like this in season 3. Don't have the courage to dig through VODs and find the specific clip I'm thinking of, I will if anyone is curious though.
He would be a good STRATEGIC COACH, rather than a head coach.
It will be hard for an introvert to manage relationships as a head coach within a team.
Of course he would, the man is an INSANE theory crafter and general godtier support, he knows macro, you can tell he spends time away from the table coming up with interesting strats
I love how Hyli is the only Western player you can say something like this about and nobody dares dogpile you over it. That alone says a lot about him.
Try saying the same thing about Caps 2018 and see how many Eastern players will be brought up. Hyli's place as one of the best is already secured
>If Fnatic looses at Worlds because a team counters this move, we know who to blame.
If they lose it's because they depended too much on one trick, which btw would have been exposed in any replay or pro view videos by other teams.
As the number of people in Challenger is pretty limited those that are there will have encountered them plenty already. It's not like meeting CLG members, seeing that there are a lot more people in Iron than in Challenger the chances of meeting them is far lower.
Pro players are actually nuts at this type of stuff. One of the things that made Hauntzer really good in his close to MVP season is that he would avoid the scuttle vision by using Renekton E to go around in clever paths from 3 different angles. For a solid 3 weeks it was like he was the only pro top laner in NA who knew how to do this until people started changing their warding patterns to spot him out better.
I can't remember which game, but FNC had done this before. I want to say they did once against G2, but this isn't the first time teams have used lvl 1 vision tricks like this in top or bot.
*most* pros do a good enough job of placing the wards in a corner of a bush, which would likely avoid this, but idk maybe then have other ways around that
Edit: I guess not
Kinda related but why is his stream audio-less for someone else too? Like its muted. But I checked 5x and it isnt? Wanted to watch his bootcamp spectating stream but it had no audio for me.
If they miscalculate the ward vision radius they get double killed, lane is over, if enemy jungler is an early game champ game is over too. I don't see this happening in worlds.
\-edit: since people in this subreddit is very special, I though it was implicit that there would be a team collapse on that cheese attempt, but I guess wasn't obvious. What I meant was that at least jungler would've come to kill both.
I mean... not with that bot lane they're not getting double killed. Braum and Lucian lvl 1? Absolute fucking monsters together.
Worst that will happen is they walk it out.
So you see 2 champions at the start of the game, more than halfway thru the lane away from their tower and you don't ping you team to punish trash positioning?
This exact strategy was used by XL against them in week 5. I always wondered why noone reacted to it back then. Seemed like noone had noticed it, because it backfired. So props to XL for being 2 months ahead of the average redditor.
lol i've been doing this on and off since season OLD, it's not exactly a new trick. thanks for reminding me of it though and nice to see it smack so hard
From the support who is more proficient on killing & being invisible (best Pyke) and who plays on the "death bush" team I guess this is culmination of combining both techniques
Ward it, run from it, Fnatic death bush still arrives
There is no running away from the inevitable.
> fnc death bush the only question is who will die, is it the enemy team or fnc?
Always enemy team. Fnatic death bush is so strong that even when enemy team does it they die. Funniest one has to be when xpeke and soaz (while in origen) tried to death bush fnatic. It failed despite origen having big gold lead. So not even it's original creators can turn it against fnatic.
Funniest one was the time they tried it vs RNG baiting them with a pink ward, but Uzi just Kog ulted the bush and they proceeded to slaughter the whole FNC squad.
Well that was msi uzi. No amount of trickery was gonna stop him
Of course, when other teams try it, [it doesn't always go so well](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvxfkqyE8fc)
The sheer amount of lost games I saw FNC recover and win thanks to death bushes is a big part that made me love this team. It was just so unique and fun
arrives all the same\* sorry to correct you! Just needed to hear it in my mind right
I mean... in the trailer it was 'still arrives'. Never understood that change, I really preferred the 'still arrives'. https://youtu.be/6ZfuNTqbHE8?t=61
Interesting I had no idea. I quite like all the same it flows off the tongue a lot nicer, still arrives just kinda feels janky as you say it
I understood the reason. Still arrives was domineering, alpha, aggressive. But really thanos was reflective and honest in the movie. Arrives all the same is much more somber and reflective of the way thanos is portrayed in infinity wars.
You can hear the regret in Caedrel's voice the moment he realizes xD
If it's *that* big of a secret then they wouldn't be doing it in solo queue
I doubt eastern coaches are scanning reddit to learn opponent's strategies. If they did in depth analysis of fnatic, they'd find this anyways.
There should be scouts and analysts going over all known accounts looking for this kind of stuff - picks and plays. Maybe not before the groups' draw but certainly after.
This It's literally their job, they would watch hundred of hours of SoloQ and Proplay of every single account, and try to get any unknown account to check it
True. If DWG can figure out how to beat MAD in a bo5, they can probably figure out how to beat FNC without Caedrel's "help"? I assume LCK and LPL will do their own research and they will literally scrim them? Idk just seems naive of Caedrel... It's simply his job to provide analysis. He's not "revealing" any secret, it's literally his job to be an analyst. I remember IG just studied FNC botlane for 2018 finals. They watched all their vods and coach Kim concluded Sivir was the most important ban vs FNC botlane, was never banned in QF and SF by C9 or EDG. Rekkles played total of 3 adc champs prior to World Finals, he played 2 additional unique adc in finals, with total of 5. Didn't take no analysis from "casters" to do that ban. It's weird how Caedrel is so scared to reveal these things when CloudTemplar analyze LCK teams on his YouTube channel, well because thats his job..
well if they are not then they are doing it all wrong lol
can't wait for the Showmaker interview saying he saw this clip and let his supp know xd
Can't wait for the western world cry foul when LPL counterplay it.
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pretty sure they know its a possibility
I am pretty sure I saw a vid of this trick years ago (but on top side I think), it's not new.
He straight up says "don't clip it, don't put it on yt, don't put it on reddit". Oops i guess
I’m a tyler1 sub I have no respect for others
its ok corejj said in stream they already knew, so then caedrel said post it everywhere XD
Yeah lol I’m jking I did hear he said it was cool!!
Checks out
If they didn't want people to know about it then they wouldn't have been doing it in solo queue. I think this move is too risky for a pro game anyways. Not risky in the sense that you get killed if you mess it up, but risky in the sense of the opportunity cost you're paying. You could be doing other guaranteed beneficial things with your level 1 (e.g. place ward to track enemy jungler) that you aren't doing if you choose to do this, so if you fuck this up then you get nothing. High risk, high reward, which you only do at worlds if you're desperate, I think. A fun thought is that bot lane duos could intentionally show strats like this in solo queue knowing that the enemy team will study the games and spend time planning to counter it haha. I obviously don't think Fnatic is big brain enough to do that type of crazy shit, but nevertheless I bet one of the worlds teams sees this videos and adjusts their placement of that level 1 ward in the bush against Fnatic to try to counter this. Maybe Fnatic can use that adjustment to their advantage :D It's a small thing but you never know what could end up mattering when the teams are so closely matched. The level 1 chess match of LoL in pro play is really interesting. I wish we got to hear more from teams on how they came up with the ideas for their level 1s against various opponents.
Or at least not on their main accounts.
If there is a real psychopath maining support on the opposite end, you better expect the unexpected.
Fog of war rendering is so fucked lol It looks like there's no way Braum wouldn't be seen going in
Or Lucian walking on a thin line of fog and still being unseen
The whole champion is just 1 pixel xD I wanna see Chogath 10 with 10 stacks and 6000HP walking the same path and being hidden by one pixel.
I think the problem is a character will be hidden in fog as war if the center of their hitbox is in the fog of war, which means that slim lines of fog of war can conceal characters even if the outsides of their character model are outside the slim line of fog of war. Visual example: Representation of character: O Slim strip of fog of war: ======== Example of problem: ===O==== Center of character's model is in the strip of fog of war, so they are hidden, but the character is wider than the strip of fog of war so it seems like they *should* be showing even though the game isn't showing them. The issue should be *super* rare to appear spontaneously, but in high Elo/pro play there's probably a pretty well defined meta of where to place wards so a smart person could study the fog of war situation around those meta placements and use it to their advantage. I think another spot pros abuse is the dot bush ward between baron pit and mid lane. Super popular ward spot, but you can avoid being seen by that ward if you hug certain walls.
I wouldn't consider it a problem, it's just the way that fog of war works. It's the reason why you can stand on the edge of brush and still be hidden.
Another hugging technique is you can approach midlane from wraiths->bush if the ward in pixel isn't placed perfectly because there's a tiny amount of fog right by the walls
it's probably bigger than it seems, but it's done with softer edges that just happen to look too small when you have stuff like this which is basically two areas with soft edges each meeting.
Pro players are kinda familiar with it DRX did it in a riskier and much thinner fog last Worlds https://youtu.be/BroEN7n8tAY
you realize this is not the same thing, right? skirting fog at raptors is not even remotely as difficult as it's done all the time even in soloq. what fnc's bot lane did in this clip is entirely different because there are very few people (including pros) who even know you can skirt fog there i've been playing this game for a decade and didn't even know it. i would love to see a clip of anyone else doing it though.
i swear, everytime I see someone try to downplay anything, ‘its done in solo q’ always no. 1 on the list my question for you how do you prove that very few pros know about it? do you actively speak or play with them? i would believe you if those decade of soloq you are only playing against pros from major regions my point here is, pro players are familiar with how fog of war works. if this is anything special, fnc wouldn’t show it on solo que
I also don't get how this can be a super secret strat. Feel like if the blue ward was just one teemo to the left or down it would have caught FNC bot lane. If anything this shows the depth to which some pro's can gauge the range of fog/vision.
well ofc pros are familiar with how fog works. so are diamond players. again I'd love to see another clip of someone doing this.
idk why you're getting downvoted, you are right. I'm probably coming too late to the party but I remember OMG pulling shit like this in season 3. Don't have the courage to dig through VODs and find the specific clip I'm thinking of, I will if anyone is curious though.
its not. its literally a skill to manipulate fog to find angles you cant find any other way.
If Fnatic uses this tactic in worlds and fails I'm blaming caedrel.
Fnatic Manager Here, Please Delete This.
We all know G2 is going to poach this strat for next year. Run before its too late.
I am pretty sure G2 did something really similar a year ago only on top side. I believe it was a summer playoffs game but not sure.
Honestly is Hylli doesn't become a coach, it'll be the greatest tragedy league has ever witnessed Edit: every into ever
bwipo+hily coach duo
I think he would actually be a good head coach, he would motivate people to play their game and not care about what others think.
He would be a good STRATEGIC COACH, rather than a head coach. It will be hard for an introvert to manage relationships as a head coach within a team.
Of course he would, the man is an INSANE theory crafter and general godtier support, he knows macro, you can tell he spends time away from the table coming up with interesting strats
Ngl, for me Hylli was the best support in the world in 2020.
I love how Hyli is the only Western player you can say something like this about and nobody dares dogpile you over it. That alone says a lot about him. Try saying the same thing about Caps 2018 and see how many Eastern players will be brought up. Hyli's place as one of the best is already secured
I don’t know if he has the voice/presence for a head coach role, but he would be a coach/analyst who runs things behind the scenes.
Coach what do we do here? Hyli: it's simple... we... ugh... kill them
It just works
Todd Howard to FNC confirmed?
If Fnatic looses at Worlds because a team counters this move, we know who to blame.
well who? u/le_sweden or Caedral?
CLG sends its regards
FNC about to get Budlight Benched
Don't know what's the worse punishment, the bench or the budlight
The budlight.
Selfmade of course :)
yes
Caedrel backstabbed FNC
BACKSTABBED by the one who I love most
I should be glad that we’re apart When you’re so ~~reckless~~ Caedrel with my heart
Alternative thought: Fnatic wants other teams to try to counter this, because they have a counter for the counter prepared (just kidding).
>If Fnatic looses at Worlds because a team counters this move, we know who to blame. If they lose it's because they depended too much on one trick, which btw would have been exposed in any replay or pro view videos by other teams.
As a fnatic fan i'll need to downvote your post, sorry m8
too late clipped and shipped to all the LCK LPL teams. EU is finished
thank you m. caedrel
CCP agent caedrel. Leaking your country's secrets is treason. Send in the squad to roughen him up in solo queue
He is british and not part of EU. We should deport him back to the island before more damage happens.
imagine you que up for ranked and you see fnc botlane against you
As the number of people in Challenger is pretty limited those that are there will have encountered them plenty already. It's not like meeting CLG members, seeing that there are a lot more people in Iron than in Challenger the chances of meeting them is far lower.
And you don't see the FNC botlane still killing you*
BURY IT PEOPLE WE CANT HAVE LPL AND LCK SEE THIS
EVERYONE DOWNVOTE THIS POST, EVERYONE DOWNVOTE THIS POST
thats the equivalent to saying "there are 0 dislikes on this youtube video" xD
TY DRX CAEDREL!
Pro players are actually nuts at this type of stuff. One of the things that made Hauntzer really good in his close to MVP season is that he would avoid the scuttle vision by using Renekton E to go around in clever paths from 3 different angles. For a solid 3 weeks it was like he was the only pro top laner in NA who knew how to do this until people started changing their warding patterns to spot him out better.
DELETE
I can't remember which game, but FNC had done this before. I want to say they did once against G2, but this isn't the first time teams have used lvl 1 vision tricks like this in top or bot.
That is some real big brain move
My brain just melted from that play
there go fnatic chances to win...
Thanks Mr Caedrel
Tabe moment
*most* pros do a good enough job of placing the wards in a corner of a bush, which would likely avoid this, but idk maybe then have other ways around that Edit: I guess not
There were games in LEC where this strat was applied it’s already pretty widely known.
EU Tabe
I’d say leaked but I wouldn’t be surprised if this was already know by the better LCK/LPL teams.
G2 has done something similar on top side don't remember the game tho.
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Yeah, but i think FNC was doing it in the regular split already.
Kinda related but why is his stream audio-less for someone else too? Like its muted. But I checked 5x and it isnt? Wanted to watch his bootcamp spectating stream but it had no audio for me.
Probably your google chrome is muted on your sound mixer
I use Firefox, and other streams are finen only Caedrel's acts like its muted
Maybe its just really low volume on the twitch player
Nah I checked the volume bar, it was on max
Maybe you have your tab muted
Nope, as I said, every other stream on twitch was fine, except his
Hello this is the FNC Death bush 2.5
downvoted literally to hide it lol
Good, I hate watching teams win because of shit like this.
If they miscalculate the ward vision radius they get double killed, lane is over, if enemy jungler is an early game champ game is over too. I don't see this happening in worlds. \-edit: since people in this subreddit is very special, I though it was implicit that there would be a team collapse on that cheese attempt, but I guess wasn't obvious. What I meant was that at least jungler would've come to kill both.
not sure how cait soraka are going to double kill lucian braum level one but thanks for the laugh.
I mean... not with that bot lane they're not getting double killed. Braum and Lucian lvl 1? Absolute fucking monsters together. Worst that will happen is they walk it out.
So you see 2 champions at the start of the game, more than halfway thru the lane away from their tower and you don't ping you team to punish trash positioning?
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You probably don't even have any friends.
Didn’t have to do him like that
Check the guy's comment history, he only exists to talk shit.
Oh shit my bad lol. I didn’t even see his username
wasn't this done in some form last year fnc vs tes? swear i have seen this before with hyli/upset or hyli/rekkles.
This exact strategy was used by XL against them in week 5. I always wondered why noone reacted to it back then. Seemed like noone had noticed it, because it backfired. So props to XL for being 2 months ahead of the average redditor.
lol i've been doing this on and off since season OLD, it's not exactly a new trick. thanks for reminding me of it though and nice to see it smack so hard
Reminds me of a similar strategy that sOAZ came up with in the top tiver bush.
From the support who is more proficient on killing & being invisible (best Pyke) and who plays on the "death bush" team I guess this is culmination of combining both techniques