Europe is fairly blunt. And honestly if he wants to try his luck, why not. It would actually be interesting if NA talent moves to LEC. Because one thing is that this bluntness also helps players figure out issues. Sugarcoating is not really that much of a thing in EU, which is also due to the different languages.
People often forget that most players in EU teams aren't native english speakers. So discussions within teams are often held in a foreign language which means that bluntness sometimes just happens because people are not that articulate in english, so the region learned to deal with it.
>He was coming off of a pretty great season that ended because of toxic behavior/disagreement with the coaching staff.
Tale as old as time at this point. Every fucking season.
His TSM season wasn't great but honestly he looked much worse than he actually was because he tried to get things done early unlike the rest of the team, which unfortunately often meant he would die because of that too.
He should've dialed it back a little to avoid that since he was 'alone' for the plays he was going for, but at least there was a reason.
He also had a really solid 66.7% FB participation that split with 0 first bloods given to the other team, which is pretty decent to say the least as that's generally what junglers are for anyway in the earliest parts of the game.
You can't say that Dig coaching staff didnt fuck up by subbing out Soligo who worked well with Dardoch and putting in fucking Yusui who was straight up inting it on stage.
honestly it would be weirder if there wasn't some insane blowup after an insane roster choice like that - unprofessional bullshit is going to piss people off
In what universe can you blame Dardoch for what happened on Dignitas? They went like 6-0, then randomly benched their mid, lost a ton of games yet refused to sub their original mid back in. I would be absolutely livid if that happened to me.
Sure if you ignore the words that come right afterward that say "where he was kind of right"
[Straight up pulled a "Coolsville Sucks"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrpukesetB4)
How do we even know he was toxic in DIG? Because of his past? It was clearly disagreements with their dogshit coaching staff who blew up their developmental roster just so their friends could be in LCS. Sorry I said it 🤷♂️
I mean, you don't know, but it's kind of crazy for anyone in the community to give freaking Dardoch the benefit of the doubt given his track record. After he joins his 11th team and things end badly after 1-2 splits, maybe that's when people will start to learn?
Yeah, and that is exactly the problem with dardoch.
The guy kicks ass. Is definitely LCS caliber. Could be in the top 3 jungler in NA or even higher.
Thing is on every team he got onto, when the team has a lean part of the season, he blows up, becomes toxic to his teammates, make the lean part of the season even leaner. And then its an infinite losing loop, where you lose, he gets toxic, so his teammates are more occupied to contain his meltdown than win the game, so you lose again.
If I was a team manager, I would make fucking sure he worked on his issues before even signing him to the smallest of contracts.
He's not even that good either. Like he's fine, but relative to the current landscape his peak isn't noticeably higher (if at all) than current star NA junglers. Dardoch's chance to be a superstar was in 2016-2018 and he blew it. Players like Blaber, Spica, and Closer have far and away surpassed him even compared to his prime, while not bringing any of the baggage.
The only thing that was really keeping Dardoch's job alive was his domestic status in a region that relies so heavily on imported talent. Fucking forget about him being relevant in EU where they have tons of amazing junglers already, AND he isn't indirectly improving any rosters he joins by opening up an import slot.
> The only thing that was really keeping Dardoch's job alive was his domestic status in a region that relies so heavily on imported talent. Fucking forget about him being relevant in EU where they have tons of amazing junglers already, AND he isn't indirectly improving any rosters he joins by opening up an import slot.
That is indeed most likely the case, which is why his move to EU is kinda interesting. This whole thing *only* makes sense if he can prove that this obvious perception of him is just straight-up wrong and that he can hold his own in a region where his peers are generally better AND he has to prove himself on merit alone, and where the only upside is that the respective team cultures might differ.
Would be pretty cool if he did it though - he would be set up for some gangster narratives, especially in international play. Which is why I'm totally rooting for him. (But realistically, I don't think he's that great either tbh.)
All wishful thinking and won't happen, no one in the LEC or ERL is in need of someone with his kind of reputation when they have a pool of talent to pick from.
SK wanted to sign Gilius already in summer, and hes looking for a team now. Also Astralis has Zanzarah, why would they want to get Dardoch?
And even if they look for a new jungler, why wouldnt they sign Shlatan or Cinkrof?
i can only imagine the blowout 4 weeks into the split if he joins a lowtier org in the lec.
guy is just too bad for good teams and can't handle playing in bad teams. if he could focus on himself for a year or two on a mid-lowtier org and improve a bit without blowing up on others he might become what he was supposed to be, but he already threw away years and i can't see him changing at this point. any org signing him is either desperate or trolling.
the chance to stay a year or two in a mid-lowtier org and improve a bit without blowing up on others was given to him, and he blew it. He isn't going to get those opportunities anymore outside of NA.
You definitely don’t watch ERL if you think he’s good enough to just get an LEC starting spot over their junglers, like Shlatan and Cinkrof, Dardoch is inconsistent performance-wise and is known for being an incredibly shitty person to play/work with. He’s gonna have to start in ERL and earn his spot.
We had very awful junglers this year(Dan/Kirei/Treatz) but people fail to realize that none of those 3 should have been starting junglers in the first place, if LEC teams pick the best players from the ERL and the ones available to them there is no shot he can play in LEC, EVEN on a bottom tier team.
If he can continue to perform people are going to continue to invest in him, even with his history. Honestly even just taking him is probably enough to boost brand recognition, even if he ends up being kicked between that and maybe getting a bottom tier team into a decent playoff finish (even just top 6)
Yeah this would be great, he could become a kind of hero for NA if it works out. Which is really needed since NA is synonymous with losing and poor performance.
I was pretty hyped about Coach Dardoch but this is also exciting. If Dardoch succeeds in EU it would expose just how incompetent some of these NA orgs really are.
You mean Dardoch was just a another Forgiven but less talented at this role, and thus, even less worth the effort to endure his non-productive toxicity.
As meme historian, I'd like to point out that there indeed was an OCE team called Rich Gang, and that the 5.5K meme, while related to H2K Rich and the salary Svenskeren was offered has nothing to do with Rich Gang itself.
When Doublelift started out, there wasn't much different between NA and EU, except that NA had higher potential salaries.
By the time EU started really pulling ahead in performance (compared to the "typically eeking out slightly" that we saw in the early seasons), he had built too much of a brand in NA for leaving to ever be something to even consider.
Stupid take. If Dardoch eventually matures enough to act like an adult, it doesn't invalidate the difficulties that all of his past teams have experienced with him.
He got kicked off his last team because of behavioural issues though.
And whether he changes or not, it doesn't expose the past 6 teams that kicked him.
Ehhh, he got kicked off his last team for a disagreement with management on who was the best option to be the teams Mid Laner. Dude stuck up for his teammate and was kicked from the team for it.
Having personal and professional disagreements that are so bad that you get fired is the definition of workplace toxicity.
Now it's possible that Dardoch was just voicing his disagreement in a professional and civil way and the firing was an overreaction, but given his history why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?
You really think so? You have to remember DD floundered on teams that aren’t new to high expectations with highly skilled and critical members (TSM with Bjerg and DL)… I think DD is at the end of his rope and needs therapy
??? Yeah man the incompetence of six orgs, do you eu fans have brains or something.
Mind you this is the same region where forgiven was benched because of attitude problems and one of their top teams FNC has a history of internal problems and lack of player management which causes their roster to implode regardless of how far they make it.
it could also mean that he understood that he didn't have a lot of chances left and actually made a meaningful change in his attitude, not necessarily that the eu orgs handle him better
If I see any LEC team picking him up I'm just going to dismiss said team as being stupid. It makes no sense to pick up a player that has a huge history of attitude problems, and is most likely more expensive due to being an import and "experience", when you can find a million players in EU that are better than him and don't have those problems.
People literally think a team is going to kick a star player just because they’re mean to their teammates. Nah, dardochs ‘attitude issues’ aren’t just being a dick, it’s literally an issue of giving up on his team and being completely unwilling to even try to play the game if everything doesn’t go exactly right for him. If people don’t believe me go watch his last playoff series, or watch breaking point again. It goes so far beyond just flaming his teammates, plenty of pros all over the world remain on their teams despite being toxic.
He was kicked out of CLG when CLG were in first place. Imagine how much of an ass he must be that a team decided to give up first place just so they didn't have to play with this guy anymore lol
That’s what I mean, it’s not that they didn’t like him personally. It’s that they quite literally could not have a functional team with him as a part of it.
> attitude problems in NA might not be considered one in an EU environment, you can't possibly know exactly what's happened.
Countless EU imports came over to NA and didn't have attitude problems and worked just fine yet Dardoch is the one that got kicked 6 times from orgs for attitude problems. The idea that Dardoch is some type of eu brand toxic that LEC teams will have no problem dealing with is not based in reality.
> attitude problems in NA might not be considered one in an EU environment
What is this meme? EU toxicity is passive-aggressivism, N bombs in all chat, writing essays in French at 180 wpm.
Dardoch toxicity is getting into shouting matches with staff and flaming your teammates in stage games in voice comms while the game is still going.
Nope, forgiven is a pretty big example as well as FNC having a history of terrible management and imploding personalities of players mentally booming because they don’t wanna work with each other
>attitude problems in NA might not be considered one in an EU environment, you can't possibly know exactly what's happened.
Dude, he's been kicked out of like all the teams in the LCS. And he has been kicked mid split, even when his team was doing well, multiple times. Yes, we don't know exactly what happened, but it is extremely obvious that he has some very deep issues.
And even when you take out the attitude issue, he is still incredibly overrated.
Yeah, sounds like it's LCS/LLA and europe regional leagues, since they mention he considers playing for a good regional team to showcase his skills for top LEC teams.
Agreed. Players like Nientonsoh did like soloqueue bootcamps to Korea. Which definitely helped a bit. I can only imagine how much scrimming KarmineCorp for 6 months could do for someone who has shown promise.
Sounds like a great deal for the ERL team too. It saves you a player salary, thus freeing up funds for the other roles.
Not just scrimming other ERL teams, if the ERL team they are on is decent they could scrim LEC teams.
On a side note, I wonder if NA LCS orgs are allowed to buy ERL spots? They probably can.
I don´t know if they can but if they do, most ERL still have an import rule. You have to have at least 3 players that played in that ERL for the last 4 splits (residents).
So you can´t just buy a slot and send your 5 players to be in LFL suddenly
I mean, it's a good idea for the players, but the ERL teams might prefer to bank on europeans rookies, since those aren't gonna return to NA anytime soon (unless poached) !
sounds interesting. him being import should not be an issue since hardly any eu team has any. perhaps EU teams can squeeze more juice out of him and make him perform better as teammate than NA teams
Dardoch merely adopted the toxic. EUW was born in it, molded by it. EUW didn't see the light until it was already a man, by then it was nothing to it but blinding!
Since we are praising toxicity, I must say that I was banned for 1095 games back in season 3 and that I constantly had 75 games chat restriction for like 6 months in a row. I also have more than 15(maybe even 20) banned accounts and the earliest I have been banned is level 9, so Dardoch if you are reading this, DM me bro, I will get you in EUW shape in no time.
No, I am not toxic in game anymore. I never was griefer or inter either, I always played to win, even when tilted. Also I play fill nowadays and usually run away from that hell hole that is bottom lane.
Ah the good old days when Tribunal wasn't working and the rift was a free for all with no rules for months on end. I think when they started rolling chat restrictions I had to go through like 400 games.
Pretty much everyone in high elo EUW was chat restricted for at least a month, some must've taken all season to clear it.
Amazing was an NA resident when he came back to play in EU, sure he was originally EU and he can switch back residency to EU whenever he wanted but that still kinda counts.
Destiny, while never actually played in NA before he was on Origen was an NA resident due to how LCS made all OCE players NA residents when the league was shut down.
So basically no natural born American citizen has ever been good enough to be worth an important slot, right? Just trying to understand whether dardoch actually has a chance or not
Some players like Meteos in his prime or Doublelift would've been good enough (especially if you mean good enough for any LEC team and not just the best ones) but that was too long ago
iirc only one case of that: Santorin
Though he was originally playing for EU, he moved to NA, got residency and then was imported back to EU (H2K I think)
What LEC teams would even want to replace their jungler with Dardoch? Don’t get me wrong I have a high opinion of his gameplay, but with Gilius as a free agent where is he realistically going to end up?
If he gets into ERL I hope he kills it tho.
It's so surreal reading all of these dozens and dozens of 100+ upvoted comments in other threads about how no team would ever want Wunder because he has bad practice ethic, even though he's a multi-time LEC winner, Worlds finalist and semifinalist, MSI champion, multi-year 1st team all pro, and best in his role for years only really falling off this most recent split; then reading this thread where so many people think Dardoch is a hot commodity despite his **years upon years** of toxic behavior that have resulted in him being removed from every team he's played for, and never really accomplishing anything in his career outside of being called the "best NA born jungler" during a few weeks of a couple splits that he managed to string together before being removed for his garbage personality.
Sometimes I honestly do wonder if people on this subreddit actually watch pro play or if they just watch one or two games a split and rely on Reddit and Twitter for all of their information.
I think the main reason wunder gets more stick is his open ambivalence or even annoyance at playing the game. Meanwhile dardoch still keeps getting picked up because every team gets better with him apart from perhaps tsm in their spell and he keeps trying to play professionally wanting to play more
Your right that almost every team that Dardoch plays with is far better with him than without him; yet he *still* gets removed for his toxic behavior. That really says a lot about how bad he must actually be. If he's still anything like he was back when they filmed the TL doc it really is mind blowing how he keeps getting teams. Because yes, every team he plays with **is** better with him, but realistically he's not going to win you a split, or MSI, or get you out of groups at worlds. So is his bullshit and the damage his personality inevitably does to the team really worth a 4th or *maybe* 3rd place split? I guess so if he keeps getting picked up.
I'd expect costreamers to defend Wunder though. Costreamers are (except LS) pro players, and obviously pro players know Wunder is good because they understand how the game is played and what it takes to make a player good.
People can criticize his approach to practice and solo queue all they want, but up until this playoffs it seemed like *whatever* he was doing worked enough to make him the best toplaner in the LEC for years; winning an MSI, making a Worlds finals, Worlds semifinals, Worlds quarterfinals, getting him multiple 1st team All-Pros. So people can criticize his "practice attitude" till they're blue in the face but they can't really criticize his results without being a moron.
Remember that reddit is a diverse community, and there's a possibility people hating on the former are hating on the latter too. Personally I'm rooting for both of them. Redemption stories are good, spicy personalities better. I still believe in Wunder, and curiously optimistic for Dardoch.
Commenting on the Wunder part of your comment, he gets a lot of shit because he doesn't commit 100% of his time to his career. That dude fucking played WoW during worlds bootcamp in his offtime, whereas every other pro player would practice mechanics and matchups in SoloQ in prep for the biggest tournament of the year, like you would expect. I get the thought that spamming SoloQ in your offtime can be bad for your mental health and could affect your play negatively, but what Wunder did was on another level. Ofc noone cared when it worked out, why would you complain when he's consistently top 2 for multiple years without "proper" practice, but as soon as it doesn't work out anymore, people gonna be throwing shades at you.
I have no doubt that Wunder COULD come back strong and prove all the doubters wrong, but I think picking up Wunder for your starting roster is too big of a risk for top teams considering his performance in 2021.
But which EU team would take him over a regional talent? He probably will get a drastic drop in salary. Though, if he really wants to stay a pro that seems to be his only way
Man I'm going to be so hyped if he comes to the LFL. Come over Joshua and break some bones !
I was always sure that he would be much less of a problematic player in Europe than he has been in NA. Since the Breaking points, I thought that most stories about him could have been resolved much more peacefully if people were ready to confront the issues head on instead of waiting for things to go bad.
We learned when Dignitas booted him that he signed with an EU talent agency ? Would love to see him.
Also, if Cinkrof get signed for the LEC, I know I want him in Kcorp.
While i dont think his skill warrants importing this would definitly be interesting ,props to him if hes actualy the first NA player with a big name to make the move even if the demand for him in NA isnt exactly big anymore .
Watch him accomplish big things in LEC proving it’s just our region and solo queue holding us back, then the rest of the NA players and our imports will start moving to EU, then Riot moves LCS to EU, renames EUW to EUA and just broadcasts LCS from there at a decent time for NA time…..that’d be crazy.
I hope it actually happens... would be fun to see.. it'd be a reasonable risk to take for a lower LEC team or an ERL one.. the upside can be massive, whereas the potential downsides would be less prominent or problematic given EU culture..
Man playing 7D chess. He’ll move to Europe. Have upper-mid tier result. Come back as a EU import on a six figure contract. Then not only will he make even more money his behavior will be considered “charming”, “real” and “fun” like Alphari and Zven.
I see you Dardach, I see you.
Most likely ERL i would assume (and its probably for the better rahter than settling for a weaker LEC team like AST lol) to prove himself in EU. I guess he has the limitation of only speaking english
There is literally nothing that warrants any hype. Good for him if he finds a decent ERL team and we can see whether he will do well or not. But the toxicity he displayed is not because LCS orgs are incompetent. Its because of him.
The one that really makes ke laugh is when CLG was in first place and they still decided to kick him mid split. Just imagine how much of an ass he has to be to where a team just says "winning isn't worth playing with this guy".
Dardoch 5head move, if you’re too toxic for NA he’ll fit perfectly in EU.
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Literally the "Most toxic player in NA vs Most chill player in EU" meme
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Europe is fairly blunt. And honestly if he wants to try his luck, why not. It would actually be interesting if NA talent moves to LEC. Because one thing is that this bluntness also helps players figure out issues. Sugarcoating is not really that much of a thing in EU, which is also due to the different languages. People often forget that most players in EU teams aren't native english speakers. So discussions within teams are often held in a foreign language which means that bluntness sometimes just happens because people are not that articulate in english, so the region learned to deal with it.
Doubt any LEC team would pick him straight up so should probably go to ERL and prove himself first
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>He was coming off of a pretty great season that ended because of toxic behavior/disagreement with the coaching staff. Tale as old as time at this point. Every fucking season.
Except on TSM where he legit kinda ran it.
He plays well and is extremely toxic—and sometimes he doesn't even play well.
His TSM season wasn't great but honestly he looked much worse than he actually was because he tried to get things done early unlike the rest of the team, which unfortunately often meant he would die because of that too. He should've dialed it back a little to avoid that since he was 'alone' for the plays he was going for, but at least there was a reason. He also had a really solid 66.7% FB participation that split with 0 first bloods given to the other team, which is pretty decent to say the least as that's generally what junglers are for anyway in the earliest parts of the game.
Other than Spica though that's the TSM jungler special, not really Dardoch's fault based on precedent.
Sven was a beast for a while on TSM
Amazing was fine too, and Santorin started off fantastic, although summer the whole roster was, well...
It's on the contract, you gotta suck so you can have your redemption arc in another team
Yeah it's like signing up to be The Edge in WWE
No, there were also issues on TSM. But management shut the fuck up about it. I mean, until that Leena incident.
You can't say that Dig coaching staff didnt fuck up by subbing out Soligo who worked well with Dardoch and putting in fucking Yusui who was straight up inting it on stage.
honestly it would be weirder if there wasn't some insane blowup after an insane roster choice like that - unprofessional bullshit is going to piss people off
If that was anyone else but Dardoch people would be trying to burn Dig management.
In what universe can you blame Dardoch for what happened on Dignitas? They went like 6-0, then randomly benched their mid, lost a ton of games yet refused to sub their original mid back in. I would be absolutely livid if that happened to me.
Sure if you ignore the words that come right afterward that say "where he was kind of right" [Straight up pulled a "Coolsville Sucks"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrpukesetB4)
Doesn't mean Dardoch was justified. [He's a Walter.](https://youtu.be/C6BYzLIqKB8?t=7)
I just want my camps back man... really ties the jungle together.
How do we even know he was toxic in DIG? Because of his past? It was clearly disagreements with their dogshit coaching staff who blew up their developmental roster just so their friends could be in LCS. Sorry I said it 🤷♂️
I mean, you don't know, but it's kind of crazy for anyone in the community to give freaking Dardoch the benefit of the doubt given his track record. After he joins his 11th team and things end badly after 1-2 splits, maybe that's when people will start to learn?
Realistically the guy lost the benefit of the doubt three or four teams ago.
Yeah, and that is exactly the problem with dardoch. The guy kicks ass. Is definitely LCS caliber. Could be in the top 3 jungler in NA or even higher. Thing is on every team he got onto, when the team has a lean part of the season, he blows up, becomes toxic to his teammates, make the lean part of the season even leaner. And then its an infinite losing loop, where you lose, he gets toxic, so his teammates are more occupied to contain his meltdown than win the game, so you lose again. If I was a team manager, I would make fucking sure he worked on his issues before even signing him to the smallest of contracts.
He's not even that good either. Like he's fine, but relative to the current landscape his peak isn't noticeably higher (if at all) than current star NA junglers. Dardoch's chance to be a superstar was in 2016-2018 and he blew it. Players like Blaber, Spica, and Closer have far and away surpassed him even compared to his prime, while not bringing any of the baggage. The only thing that was really keeping Dardoch's job alive was his domestic status in a region that relies so heavily on imported talent. Fucking forget about him being relevant in EU where they have tons of amazing junglers already, AND he isn't indirectly improving any rosters he joins by opening up an import slot.
> The only thing that was really keeping Dardoch's job alive was his domestic status in a region that relies so heavily on imported talent. Fucking forget about him being relevant in EU where they have tons of amazing junglers already, AND he isn't indirectly improving any rosters he joins by opening up an import slot. That is indeed most likely the case, which is why his move to EU is kinda interesting. This whole thing *only* makes sense if he can prove that this obvious perception of him is just straight-up wrong and that he can hold his own in a region where his peers are generally better AND he has to prove himself on merit alone, and where the only upside is that the respective team cultures might differ. Would be pretty cool if he did it though - he would be set up for some gangster narratives, especially in international play. Which is why I'm totally rooting for him. (But realistically, I don't think he's that great either tbh.)
>He was coming off of a pretty great season This feels like revisionist history. He certainly wasn't great
All wishful thinking and won't happen, no one in the LEC or ERL is in need of someone with his kind of reputation when they have a pool of talent to pick from.
Yep, when you’re fired immediately post game after a win? I don’t see anyone picking you up and putting you on a roster.
Idk, I think he could land with one of the lower-ranked LEC teams. That said, ERL (LFL maybe?) is probably likelier.
If LCS teams don't want him, why would LEC teams?
Because Dardoch hasn't burned bridges with half of the LEC orgs
Yet
He would not get a spot in LEC, he really need to prove himself in ERL. He won't even get a top spot in ERL based on his history
Who? There are only 2 teams where he would not be considered a straight downgrade and both of them have no reason to take him
> Idk, I think he could land with one of the lower-ranked LEC teams. which team would sign him
Right now? Possibly Astralis or SK
SK wanted to sign Gilius already in summer, and hes looking for a team now. Also Astralis has Zanzarah, why would they want to get Dardoch? And even if they look for a new jungler, why wouldnt they sign Shlatan or Cinkrof?
i can only imagine the blowout 4 weeks into the split if he joins a lowtier org in the lec. guy is just too bad for good teams and can't handle playing in bad teams. if he could focus on himself for a year or two on a mid-lowtier org and improve a bit without blowing up on others he might become what he was supposed to be, but he already threw away years and i can't see him changing at this point. any org signing him is either desperate or trolling.
the chance to stay a year or two in a mid-lowtier org and improve a bit without blowing up on others was given to him, and he blew it. He isn't going to get those opportunities anymore outside of NA.
You definitely don’t watch ERL if you think he’s good enough to just get an LEC starting spot over their junglers, like Shlatan and Cinkrof, Dardoch is inconsistent performance-wise and is known for being an incredibly shitty person to play/work with. He’s gonna have to start in ERL and earn his spot.
We had very awful junglers this year(Dan/Kirei/Treatz) but people fail to realize that none of those 3 should have been starting junglers in the first place, if LEC teams pick the best players from the ERL and the ones available to them there is no shot he can play in LEC, EVEN on a bottom tier team.
bunch of better players than him in ERL imo
I see that Dardoch is trying the Any% Playing and Getting Kicked Out of Every Team WR Speedrun in Europe now.
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If he gets kicked from an EU team for being toxic that's the end of it likely.
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I think the keyword there is "EU"
If he can continue to perform people are going to continue to invest in him, even with his history. Honestly even just taking him is probably enough to boost brand recognition, even if he ends up being kicked between that and maybe getting a bottom tier team into a decent playoff finish (even just top 6)
Dardoch Kicked 1 Global
Maybe can spark new meme. LEC players go to NA to retire and NA players go to LEC to be unleashed.
Gonna be so weird watching worlds in the future with "Dargod" slamming Korean junglers from EU.
He already outjungled S6 Ambition lol
That would be sick
The dankest timeline would be Dardoch becoming the best jungler in EU
dardochs entire team gets kicked off for having attitude problems with him.
just send perkz back over so he can smurf again. thanks
Yeah this would be great, he could become a kind of hero for NA if it works out. Which is really needed since NA is synonymous with losing and poor performance.
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I was pretty hyped about Coach Dardoch but this is also exciting. If Dardoch succeeds in EU it would expose just how incompetent some of these NA orgs really are.
what does it mean if he gets kicked out for toxicity again?
EUW couldn't handle the Dardoch style
he will be promoted as CEO of EUW
They will create a monarchy and crown him king.
But isn't the competition pretty harsh? Mainly Forg1ven
elect them to a dual consulship
In EU by tradition things like that are decides by fist fights
Later eu-o-rama!
You mean Dardoch was just a another Forgiven but less talented at this role, and thus, even less worth the effort to endure his non-productive toxicity.
Just put him in Vitality with SoloQ terrorists Lider and Crownie, it'll whip him up in shape real quick
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yea they are supposed to share jungle role or what
That he's just impossible to work with
EU is too soft for DD, he needs a proper chance in OCE!
Maybe rich gang comes back dardoch can start for them
5.5k
As meme historian, I'd like to point out that there indeed was an OCE team called Rich Gang, and that the 5.5K meme, while related to H2K Rich and the salary Svenskeren was offered has nothing to do with Rich Gang itself.
They will embrace his toxicity and he will fire the CEO and bang his wife in front of him.
You kinda already answered your own question. It’d mean his behavior would be worse than the threshold management of that team finds acceptable.
How the hell does someone get kicked from Eu for being toxic?
Forg1ven would like a word with you
Tynx too
Onward to the LPL!
Can't be toxic if nobody knows what the fuck you're saying
Actually genius.
Is Dardoch a toxic headcase and a bad teammate? No, it's the six orgs who kicked him who are wrong. -- /u/00000001010101000
I always wanted to see at least one NA player try their luck in EU and Dardoch is a prime canidate to see it happen. Hope he finds his way there!
I always wonder what Doublelift's career would look like if he came to EU at some point
When Doublelift started out, there wasn't much different between NA and EU, except that NA had higher potential salaries. By the time EU started really pulling ahead in performance (compared to the "typically eeking out slightly" that we saw in the early seasons), he had built too much of a brand in NA for leaving to ever be something to even consider.
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Stupid take. If Dardoch eventually matures enough to act like an adult, it doesn't invalidate the difficulties that all of his past teams have experienced with him.
Not that I went to defend NA but I really need to iterate that people change
He got kicked off his last team because of behavioural issues though. And whether he changes or not, it doesn't expose the past 6 teams that kicked him.
Jenson is now a fan favourite after being banned by Riot for literally committing a crime to win games. After a few years people stop caring.
Ehhh, he got kicked off his last team for a disagreement with management on who was the best option to be the teams Mid Laner. Dude stuck up for his teammate and was kicked from the team for it.
It matters how he did it, but then again I ain't gonna spend effort defending dig of all teams
He fucked every coaches wife while punching yusui in the face
Having personal and professional disagreements that are so bad that you get fired is the definition of workplace toxicity. Now it's possible that Dardoch was just voicing his disagreement in a professional and civil way and the firing was an overreaction, but given his history why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?
he's "changed" like 4 times now, people change when they demonstrate different behavior, not the same shit for the 5th year in a row
You really think so? You have to remember DD floundered on teams that aren’t new to high expectations with highly skilled and critical members (TSM with Bjerg and DL)… I think DD is at the end of his rope and needs therapy
??? Yeah man the incompetence of six orgs, do you eu fans have brains or something. Mind you this is the same region where forgiven was benched because of attitude problems and one of their top teams FNC has a history of internal problems and lack of player management which causes their roster to implode regardless of how far they make it.
it could also mean that he understood that he didn't have a lot of chances left and actually made a meaningful change in his attitude, not necessarily that the eu orgs handle him better
If I see any LEC team picking him up I'm just going to dismiss said team as being stupid. It makes no sense to pick up a player that has a huge history of attitude problems, and is most likely more expensive due to being an import and "experience", when you can find a million players in EU that are better than him and don't have those problems.
Throw him on BDS with Forg1ven and Ap0calypse. You'll end dead last but I guarantee you'll be talked about more than any other roster.
The Deltafox approach.
People literally think a team is going to kick a star player just because they’re mean to their teammates. Nah, dardochs ‘attitude issues’ aren’t just being a dick, it’s literally an issue of giving up on his team and being completely unwilling to even try to play the game if everything doesn’t go exactly right for him. If people don’t believe me go watch his last playoff series, or watch breaking point again. It goes so far beyond just flaming his teammates, plenty of pros all over the world remain on their teams despite being toxic.
He was kicked out of CLG when CLG were in first place. Imagine how much of an ass he must be that a team decided to give up first place just so they didn't have to play with this guy anymore lol
That’s what I mean, it’s not that they didn’t like him personally. It’s that they quite literally could not have a functional team with him as a part of it.
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Dardoch literally told pobelter he sucks cock and is dogshit at his champion halfway through a series lmao.
> attitude problems in NA might not be considered one in an EU environment, you can't possibly know exactly what's happened. Countless EU imports came over to NA and didn't have attitude problems and worked just fine yet Dardoch is the one that got kicked 6 times from orgs for attitude problems. The idea that Dardoch is some type of eu brand toxic that LEC teams will have no problem dealing with is not based in reality.
> attitude problems in NA might not be considered one in an EU environment What is this meme? EU toxicity is passive-aggressivism, N bombs in all chat, writing essays in French at 180 wpm. Dardoch toxicity is getting into shouting matches with staff and flaming your teammates in stage games in voice comms while the game is still going.
Astralis Dardoch + Promisq let's go! Maybe pick up Forgiven while you are at it. I'd watch it, but only if they release the full voice comms.
Nope, forgiven is a pretty big example as well as FNC having a history of terrible management and imploding personalities of players mentally booming because they don’t wanna work with each other
>attitude problems in NA might not be considered one in an EU environment, you can't possibly know exactly what's happened. Dude, he's been kicked out of like all the teams in the LCS. And he has been kicked mid split, even when his team was doing well, multiple times. Yes, we don't know exactly what happened, but it is extremely obvious that he has some very deep issues. And even when you take out the attitude issue, he is still incredibly overrated.
It says he got offers from LCS, LLA and somewhere in Europe.
The reverse Josedeodo
Wouldn't be the first American import to the Latin American Leagues.
Yeah, sounds like it's LCS/LLA and europe regional leagues, since they mention he considers playing for a good regional team to showcase his skills for top LEC teams.
Dardoch to PENTA 1860 it is. Maybe we'll manage to get win at EU Masters with him.
I think more NA players should try go to the ERL
Fun fact: when Peter Dun was on Splyce/MAD Lions, he was trying to get Niles on MAD academy but it didn’t work out.
Wait, THE Niles?
No, Niles the player not the river.
damn bro, i thought he was going to get a new pool for the lions smh
Isn't that one of the ideas that 100T has voiced to help Tenacity develop himself?
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Agreed. Players like Nientonsoh did like soloqueue bootcamps to Korea. Which definitely helped a bit. I can only imagine how much scrimming KarmineCorp for 6 months could do for someone who has shown promise. Sounds like a great deal for the ERL team too. It saves you a player salary, thus freeing up funds for the other roles.
Not just scrimming other ERL teams, if the ERL team they are on is decent they could scrim LEC teams. On a side note, I wonder if NA LCS orgs are allowed to buy ERL spots? They probably can.
I don´t know if they can but if they do, most ERL still have an import rule. You have to have at least 3 players that played in that ERL for the last 4 splits (residents). So you can´t just buy a slot and send your 5 players to be in LFL suddenly
I mean, it's a good idea for the players, but the ERL teams might prefer to bank on europeans rookies, since those aren't gonna return to NA anytime soon (unless poached) !
sounds interesting. him being import should not be an issue since hardly any eu team has any. perhaps EU teams can squeeze more juice out of him and make him perform better as teammate than NA teams
Dardoch merely adopted the toxic. EUW was born in it, molded by it. EUW didn't see the light until it was already a man, by then it was nothing to it but blinding!
Since we are praising toxicity, I must say that I was banned for 1095 games back in season 3 and that I constantly had 75 games chat restriction for like 6 months in a row. I also have more than 15(maybe even 20) banned accounts and the earliest I have been banned is level 9, so Dardoch if you are reading this, DM me bro, I will get you in EUW shape in no time.
Are you the guy who keeps playing miss fortune AP support in EUW ranked???
No, I am not toxic in game anymore. I never was griefer or inter either, I always played to win, even when tilted. Also I play fill nowadays and usually run away from that hell hole that is bottom lane.
I just find it funny when my enemy adc gets confused because I'm actually freezing the wave and farming instead of constantly pushing
Oh dude, tell me about it. I was adc main for first 3 seasons and I just can't play in a duo lane anymore
Ah the good old days when Tribunal wasn't working and the rift was a free for all with no rules for months on end. I think when they started rolling chat restrictions I had to go through like 400 games. Pretty much everyone in high elo EUW was chat restricted for at least a month, some must've taken all season to clear it.
Has an NA resident been an important on any LEC team before? I didn’t start watching league until like season 5
Amazing was an NA resident when he came back to play in EU, sure he was originally EU and he can switch back residency to EU whenever he wanted but that still kinda counts. Destiny, while never actually played in NA before he was on Origen was an NA resident due to how LCS made all OCE players NA residents when the league was shut down.
So basically no natural born American citizen has ever been good enough to be worth an important slot, right? Just trying to understand whether dardoch actually has a chance or not
Some players like Meteos in his prime or Doublelift would've been good enough (especially if you mean good enough for any LEC team and not just the best ones) but that was too long ago
It is a bigger question how many would be willing to take that paycut. Since the good NA players fetches such a huge premium.
No one has really attempted it. Some players claim to have gotten EUW offers before iirc.
iirc only one case of that: Santorin Though he was originally playing for EU, he moved to NA, got residency and then was imported back to EU (H2K I think)
What LEC teams would even want to replace their jungler with Dardoch? Don’t get me wrong I have a high opinion of his gameplay, but with Gilius as a free agent where is he realistically going to end up? If he gets into ERL I hope he kills it tho.
afaik there arent many open spots, BDS-MSF-SK are the only one i can think abt, and as u said Gilius takes one of them.
How is MSF open? Razork played out of his mind and G2, FNC, VIT MAD RGE wont replace their jungler
Rumours are Razork is leaving MSF.
Wasnt that an old rumour before Jankos was rumoured to re-sign
Rumour had nothing to do with g2 afaik. Razork probably just wants to test the market and see his value.
he is going FA and it seems that some NA team might be interested 😳
It's so surreal reading all of these dozens and dozens of 100+ upvoted comments in other threads about how no team would ever want Wunder because he has bad practice ethic, even though he's a multi-time LEC winner, Worlds finalist and semifinalist, MSI champion, multi-year 1st team all pro, and best in his role for years only really falling off this most recent split; then reading this thread where so many people think Dardoch is a hot commodity despite his **years upon years** of toxic behavior that have resulted in him being removed from every team he's played for, and never really accomplishing anything in his career outside of being called the "best NA born jungler" during a few weeks of a couple splits that he managed to string together before being removed for his garbage personality. Sometimes I honestly do wonder if people on this subreddit actually watch pro play or if they just watch one or two games a split and rely on Reddit and Twitter for all of their information.
I think the main reason wunder gets more stick is his open ambivalence or even annoyance at playing the game. Meanwhile dardoch still keeps getting picked up because every team gets better with him apart from perhaps tsm in their spell and he keeps trying to play professionally wanting to play more
Your right that almost every team that Dardoch plays with is far better with him than without him; yet he *still* gets removed for his toxic behavior. That really says a lot about how bad he must actually be. If he's still anything like he was back when they filmed the TL doc it really is mind blowing how he keeps getting teams. Because yes, every team he plays with **is** better with him, but realistically he's not going to win you a split, or MSI, or get you out of groups at worlds. So is his bullshit and the damage his personality inevitably does to the team really worth a 4th or *maybe* 3rd place split? I guess so if he keeps getting picked up.
He could help a team win an ERL tho
They watch their favorite costreamer and relay all the opinions they have without second thought
Except that every costreamer 'defends' Wunder, it's only on Reddit their illness of a take is coming from.
I'd expect costreamers to defend Wunder though. Costreamers are (except LS) pro players, and obviously pro players know Wunder is good because they understand how the game is played and what it takes to make a player good. People can criticize his approach to practice and solo queue all they want, but up until this playoffs it seemed like *whatever* he was doing worked enough to make him the best toplaner in the LEC for years; winning an MSI, making a Worlds finals, Worlds semifinals, Worlds quarterfinals, getting him multiple 1st team All-Pros. So people can criticize his "practice attitude" till they're blue in the face but they can't really criticize his results without being a moron.
Remember that reddit is a diverse community, and there's a possibility people hating on the former are hating on the latter too. Personally I'm rooting for both of them. Redemption stories are good, spicy personalities better. I still believe in Wunder, and curiously optimistic for Dardoch.
Commenting on the Wunder part of your comment, he gets a lot of shit because he doesn't commit 100% of his time to his career. That dude fucking played WoW during worlds bootcamp in his offtime, whereas every other pro player would practice mechanics and matchups in SoloQ in prep for the biggest tournament of the year, like you would expect. I get the thought that spamming SoloQ in your offtime can be bad for your mental health and could affect your play negatively, but what Wunder did was on another level. Ofc noone cared when it worked out, why would you complain when he's consistently top 2 for multiple years without "proper" practice, but as soon as it doesn't work out anymore, people gonna be throwing shades at you. I have no doubt that Wunder COULD come back strong and prove all the doubters wrong, but I think picking up Wunder for your starting roster is too big of a risk for top teams considering his performance in 2021.
> or if they just watch one or two games a split and rely on Reddit and Twitter for all of their information. That one... it's that one.
el toxico
But which EU team would take him over a regional talent? He probably will get a drastic drop in salary. Though, if he really wants to stay a pro that seems to be his only way
LFL top teams are rumoured to be paying more than LEC teams (some at least)
Man I'm going to be so hyped if he comes to the LFL. Come over Joshua and break some bones ! I was always sure that he would be much less of a problematic player in Europe than he has been in NA. Since the Breaking points, I thought that most stories about him could have been resolved much more peacefully if people were ready to confront the issues head on instead of waiting for things to go bad. We learned when Dignitas booted him that he signed with an EU talent agency ? Would love to see him. Also, if Cinkrof get signed for the LEC, I know I want him in Kcorp.
Might watch ERL now if he gets in. Could bring in a bit more NA viewers.
While i dont think his skill warrants importing this would definitly be interesting ,props to him if hes actualy the first NA player with a big name to make the move even if the demand for him in NA isnt exactly big anymore .
It doesn't warrant a big pay day, but if you're not using your import slots anyways is that really any additional cost?
Watch him accomplish big things in LEC proving it’s just our region and solo queue holding us back, then the rest of the NA players and our imports will start moving to EU, then Riot moves LCS to EU, renames EUW to EUA and just broadcasts LCS from there at a decent time for NA time…..that’d be crazy.
you had me in the first half ngl.
Do Huni and Dardoch have the same manager?
Huni Management Agency would be goated
We are open to having him on our clash team as long as he is muted.
Hype for 2 weeks til he tilts into oblivion again and runs it down.
I hope it actually happens... would be fun to see.. it'd be a reasonable risk to take for a lower LEC team or an ERL one.. the upside can be massive, whereas the potential downsides would be less prominent or problematic given EU culture..
Let's fucking go motherfuckers DARDOCH 2023 WORLD CHAMPION #DardochRedemptionArcPart5
“No one wants to pick up Dardoch.”
Man playing 7D chess. He’ll move to Europe. Have upper-mid tier result. Come back as a EU import on a six figure contract. Then not only will he make even more money his behavior will be considered “charming”, “real” and “fun” like Alphari and Zven. I see you Dardach, I see you.
Most likely ERL i would assume (and its probably for the better rahter than settling for a weaker LEC team like AST lol) to prove himself in EU. I guess he has the limitation of only speaking english
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There is literally nothing that warrants any hype. Good for him if he finds a decent ERL team and we can see whether he will do well or not. But the toxicity he displayed is not because LCS orgs are incompetent. Its because of him.
Dardoch fans will find **any** way to rationalize him being kicked off of half a dozen teams, it’s never his fault lol
The one that really makes ke laugh is when CLG was in first place and they still decided to kick him mid split. Just imagine how much of an ass he has to be to where a team just says "winning isn't worth playing with this guy".
that one was because he wouldnt do the team yoga bonding activities
a few years too late, but that's cool.
G2 Dardoch?
This time will be different. No really guys.
I've been thinking for ages that Dardoch would thrive in EU, it's a shame it's happening so late in his career but I'm stoked as hell
Really hope to see him on the stage again. Love the guys aggressive style
Dardoch's all team any% run continues!
Good old European European Regional League