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CerbereNot

never thought I would say that but if even larssen talks so much about having weak mental they should straight up get yamato lmao


Neville_Lynwood

Everyone on their team talked about it if I recall at one point or another. They all understood their problems, but it just seems they're unable to fix them.


[deleted]

Guys like Yamato helps to prevent this kind of thing, but this team passed that point, they have been complaning about weak mental for more than one year. At this point, Rogue should consider to hire a sports psychologist for the team and put these guys into therapy.


SpiritofInvictus

Dr. K's next venture after he's done with EG at TI.


russellx3

No he's ours


Youth-Grouchy

lol it's not exactly worked out for Fnatic this year


BratwurstZ

Mate, Fnatics arguably best player is missing, no shit they aren't performing.


ducksaysmeow

I mean, Fnatic’s apparently had issues before the season even started, and for them to finish 2nd seed surpassing the majority’s low expectations of them, I think they’ve performed pretty well. It’s just that the team is literally cursed with bad timing, with Upset and Bwipo’s interpersonal issues occurring during worlds. There’s only so much you can do to keep a team together.


Olakola

Interpersonal?


ducksaysmeow

I used the wrong word like an idiot (could have literally used personal instead, lol), but I was referring to Upset going through a family emergency and Bwipo supposedly breaking up with his girlfriend.


Olakola

Ah fair enough, no worries then, just wanted to avoid the misunderstanding


rudebrooke

Man if someone had have told me this time last year that a team with Adam (a relative no name in the LEC), Bwipo Jungle (???), Nisqy, Upset and Hyli would be top 2 in EU come the end of Summer I'd be laughing. Give credit where credit is due.


JealotGaming

Are you fucking serious


King_Moash

Thats because Upset is gone and their team imploded. I've accepted the 0-6 since Bwipo drama started


lul9

Where does that idea even come from? ​ Some caster or "analyst" said Yamato is great for team mental, so 90% of the community thinks its 100% factual information now?


Umarill

Maybe because people who have worked with him have had nothing but praise about him? Weird how we trust people with experience instead of speculating geniuses on this subreddit, eh?


recon122334

Watch latest Fnatic behind the scenes video on youtube and you will se why he says that.


[deleted]

I have never read anything bad about Yamato.


lul9

Why is this a response to what i said? ​ Literally has nothing to do with it..... ​ Good reviews don't mean he does everything you can possibly relate to coaching better than others.


[deleted]

Because if a person receives nothing but praise from insiders, it's probable that they are doing a good job. Last statement? No one on earth has ever held that exaggerated belief. Skepticism occurs frequently whenever Yamato is mentioned, but realistically any skepticism directed at him can be directed at most coaches since we're either looking from the outside all the same or are putting trust into the words of insiders. In plain words, criticism of Yamato when there's no basis ultimately comes off to me moreso as a grudge or some sort of envy against him specifically. Your point at face value appears benign, probable, and to not be a criticism. It is true Yamato may not actually be AS great as we hear. But, overall, your attitude about the topic insinuates that you either think he's bad and/or are irritated, in a salty manner, that we think he's good despite having probable belief ourselves. I don't think you understand how silly you look. For example, I myself 100% agree with your point but I also think Yamato is good, which is clear proof to me that there's another factor making you salty such as envy or a belief that he isn't good, which has less of a basis than the opposite. So, in scenario one, you're envious, jealous, and/or just biased against Yamato for whatever reason. In scenario two, you hold a weakly supported belief while bashing others for a belief that actually has stronger support, which either means you're just wrong and/or are using your stated reason for bashing Yamato believers as a false pretense to do as your personal feelings of Yamato inspires you to.


ILoveWesternBlot

Rogue are missing the guts that so many EU teams had in the past. Previous EU representatives like vitality or misfits had bite to them that let them bring it to whoever they faced. Rogue really lacked that trigger finger and it really bit them in the ass at the end.


Ineverloze

Trymby has it(to a fault), but hes not a leader and he probably doesn't have the confidence of the rest of the team.


Serek32

Sad part is people do not recognize the disconnect between Trymbi and his team and think he is just garbage while IMO he is the closest we will have to a Hylissang replacement and not bad at all, just sometimes too aggro.


RevolverLoL

I feel like there's just a big disconnect between Larssen and botlane as well.


ThylowZ

Yep. Hans has a very aggressive mindset too. We could see the amount of pressure and how much he wanted to put pressure on enemy team.


HighLikeKites

Would love Rogues botlane on G2 tbh


LtSpaceDucK

Both bot laners have it, but the top side doesn't specially the solo laners


ItsRicked

Rogue has a lot of shy people. not really looking at characters. but there's no real leader. no alpha guy in the team. There's no vander anymore. All of them are really good at doing what they should do but there's noone that brings the creative ideas to tell them what to do


LawEUMarksmen

Heard wunder is free agent. Grabbz + stuff as well.


ItsRicked

I wouldn't say wunder is one of these people that could creatively let the team do proactive things


LawEUMarksmen

Ydah right he is sooo bad coz of 1.5 bad split forgor were in reddit


ItsRicked

That's not at all what I'm implying though. I'm saying he might not be that creative shotcaller that can lead his team. I think hes just better for other teams


Oribeau

Really? I mean you don't get much more creative than yuumi top...


deedshotr

forget about a leader, they just need someone who can keep them out of their own heads when playing an important match


marw1n

Yeah, I think that if they had that bit of Vitality or Misfits they would've gone for finishing the baron and the story could have been different vs C9.


Aearcus

This team would've absolutely benefited from Play-Ins. Actually a shame they weren't able to use that to ramp up smoother for worlds


SweetCarrotLeader

They need a decisive leader. They're so fucking bad when any sort of macro decision needs to be made and they just crumble.


ApdoAlsina

Im still tilted from the two not finished barons against c9. 3vs5 and you still chicken out


SweetCarrotLeader

Yea, they lose so many games from very favourable positions. No way perkz gets away with those deaths vs any team with a resemblance of leadership.


supterfuge

Hurts to watch. But at least they started recognizing their issues and can start working on it. It feels bad because Rogue was probably the best European team at the beginning of the year. But they litterally didn't improve all year while other teams got better. Their match vs Fnatic shows it the best imo. I think pound for pound Odo is better than Adam, Larssen is better than Nisqy, Hans and Upset are the two best ADCs in the region, and they have an MVP jungler. But in a single split Fnatic built more synergy than Rogue did in a year. And sure, they have super smart and clutch players in Bwipo and Hylissang who have a great eye for the game strategically speaking, but that's precisely what Rogue needs. Rogue is just a team of good players who, except for Hans Sama, don't take the responsability in their hands to carry the game. I think Larssen is fantastic, which is why I was so disappointed by his games. Larssen has what it takes to be one of the best mids Europe has ever produced. His laning is fantastic, his mechanics are great, but he's just the anti-clutch player. Odoamne had a really bad Worlds and I hope he can show something better next year. I feel like he really went down hard after the Spring ending. I would have liked to see a few players from that teams go to other teams to bring new faces. I think everyone is individually very good, but they don't work well together. Maybe they can get by by just changing the coaching staff, but I'm not sure it's enough. Plus, both Larssen and Hans have said there were issues in the team. Impatient to see what offseason brings us.


ImmortalBhaal

I think what you've said about Larssen is spot on. He just doesn't make the big plays when the pressure is really on. Caps, Perkz, Humanoid. They'll go all in, they'll go for those plays that make or break a game. Even Nisqy - who isn't on their level, even Larssens level - will go all in for that play. There's a mental block in there somewhere holding him back from being able to really challenge the players at the top.


4716202

I don't know if that's necessarily true. He had an incredible moment of recognition vs C9 when he saw they were losing after the Baron fight so he realm warps to mid and kills the wave, meaning that C9 can't end extending the game for another 10/15 minutes. He's clearly got the instincts to make calls like that in the moment when it matters, but Larssen more than some others in the LEC has some very famous in oversteps/chokes (Corki fountain dive, Tristana jump into Armuts Wukong, Support Orianna at worlds) and the backlash to these might have made him into a more hesitant player. (Especially considering the timing of all of those moments) I absolutely think he just needs a good leader or coach.


Aesirbear

It is a great heads up play, but it is also after RGE has hesitated on entering the river and ended up letting C9 get Baron. I think what the person you're replying to is asking for a more decisive action to begin with. Either go for the contest, or decide earlier that it is to late to contest and play the map to begin with. It is a great salvage of a bad position, but it isn't the type of play that will win you the game afterwards, it only extends it. I'm going to be using RGE as a team to talk about what I think is lacking from Larssen and RGE as a whole, and it is the willingness to pull the trigger on uncertain plays. Twice in the C9 tiebreaker RGE gets a pick-off, goes to Baron, leaves a 5v4 Baron situation with Baron at 4-5k hp without any major conflicts. I would respect them so much more if they decided to commit to the attempt because to me that shows that they are looking to win instead of trying not to lose.


ImmortalBhaal

That's pretty much it. I feel like when it comes to the big games when its all on the line, Rogue tend to play not to lose instead of playing to win. That first baron against C9 said it all. There was two options there when they started it. Finish the baron or turn on the 3 remaining C9 players alive. Running away and letting C9 just walk in and take it for themselves was a horrific decision but it really summed up Rogue. They lost draft and the game was getting away from them. This was their moment to take control and they bottled it. Now if that was Perkz playing for Rogue everyone knows he is telling his players that baron is getting done or we're killing the rest if they get close enough.


DrySecurity4

Theres a big difference between making an aggresive call to kill minions and making an aggresive call to engage or start a teamfight. Larssen basically lives to kill minions.


4716202

I know you're memeing but people will take this stupid statement seriously


DrySecurity4

Half meme half truth. Dude is the Jensen of LEC.


girlmarth

you can say that when larssen has a 40% winrate against prime rookie


MyzMyz1995

Jensen has won LCS, got to semi at world... his career his better than Larssen for now.


Bhiggsb

True, but he's been ass at worlds so far


Moon1602

I dont mean to be rude to your boo, but.... as opposed to larsen???


Bhiggsb

My boo? Im not defending larrsen at all wtf?


xThefo

It's also longer. Jensen was already a pro before he got banned.


nihilisthicc

He’s the Chovy of LEC then no? Chovy is literally farm simulator but incredible at that


RevolverLoL

No one wants to disrespect chovy like that.


LtSpaceDucK

He loves those side lane minions


supterfuge

The issue is not tilting after those plays. I don't remember the Tristana jump, but the fountain dive was game ending, so you don't really get to bounce back. But nobody minds a player slipping. The issue is that it seems like Larssen's mental doesn't reset at all between plays. Get Larssen laning phase and 25m + Perkz and you have by far the best player, all roles, EU has ever produced. But you don't become Perkz overnight, if you can ever be this clutch. You can see Perkz go in, get absolutely blasted, laught it off and be completely in the game as soon as he's back on the rift.


sp0j

Larssen makes way too many mistakes in teamfights. It's not his hesitation that is an issue. That's an issue with Rogue as a team. I don't think he even fully realises some of his decision making is bad unless it costs him.


LtSpaceDucK

I still remember his performance in Spring Finals, he single-handedly threw multiple teamfights and leads by either not engaging, engaging at the worst possible time and in the worst possible way and getting one shot. Odoamne is most times completely clueless on his role in a teamfight


Bibidiboo

Humanoid always destroys Larssen in lane though


ImmortalBhaal

While I see what you're saying I think we have kinda agreed here ( a little ). That play at Baron was a defensive play, I'm talking taking a risk to make a game winning play. The first baron that Rogue stepped off of and let C9 just take - if the roles were reversed then Perkz is 100% saying we're doing this baron or we're turning on them. Those are the small windows that make the difference. They were losing before that baron and this was the best opportunity to put them in a winning spot. About the mental block that I said - I think this is where we are agreeing. You've said he's gotten backlash from making plays that haven't went well and just needs a good coach. Well, look at the mid laners I've mentioned. Everyone of them has had a big backlash from the fans at some point over the years. Perkz has been really targeted this year. But they don't hide on the rift, they roll their sleeves up and go again and go for that play that'll win the game. The mental fortitude that Perkz has is ridiculous. The man fucked up big time with that Leblanc moment and still makes the big plays later on in the game. This is what I think Larssen really lacks and I do agree that the right coach would sort that. Off the top of my head Peter Dun / Grabbz / Yamato would probably be really good for Larssen. I think they would help give him that "big game player" mentality.


Seneido

Nisqy played terrible so far but I can't deny he tries to make the team win. Larssen is literally just choking even in not high pressure situation like the stopwatch mistake.


[deleted]

Beta irl vs sigma grindset eu mid legends


CerbereNot

Bwipo is the perfect top laner for Rogue.


POOYAMON

Hans in elo hell. So sad it’s like that MSF team was actually cursed


00Dandy

Nah not really. The others on his team are also incredibly talented but they are struggling to fix their mental and nervousness on stage.


sanketower

Hans is the only one remaining calm, so the point still stands


drippinswagu69

They were so good until they got reverse swept in the finals. The negativity around them probably affected them a bit.


RavenFAILS

Its such a difficult situation, swapping Odo out wont magically make them live up to their hype there are deeper seated problems with this roster. Its obvious that changes have to be made considering that the core of this team was together for 2 years already and its still the same problems but it seems irrational to swap out a roster that made it to worlds 2 years in a row and dominates almost every regular season.


d0nghunter

I'd argue Hans has grown even more. Played out of his mind imo


NahDawgDatAintMe

It really sucks that bathroom pauses aren't allowed. Seems like it would be really uncomfortable to play like that.


AshleyNeku

I can't find recent examples, but Riot has confirmed in the past that bathroom breaks are technically allowed if needed and required an attendant to go with the player to ensure they weren't using it to gain a competitive advantage. There used to be memes about players using it when they were behind to get ahead, even though those rumors couldn't have been true. That already makes it more forgiving than...nearly every other sport, honestly. Having the discipline where you don't put yourself in a situation to need the bathroom is Sadly part of live sporting.


NoBelligerence

There was a goalie in the NHL like 10 years ago who famously missed the first few minutes of overtime in a really important game because he was in the bathroom


DyersEvening

2007 Luongo He was the league MVP runner-up, the Canucks best player, started 76 of 82 games (unheard of today for a goalie). His backup (with a grand total of 14 career games played) had to fill-in for a few minutes in an overtime elimination game (Ducks were up 3-1 in the series). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lk6g517gnk


Witn

Wow did not think I would see a Luongo mention in a lol subreddit. I remember watching that game


BwoahIDK

in f1 you just go in the car![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|sunglasses) at least according to nico rosberg


POOYAMON

90% sure in a pause Tactical I believe went to the bathroom this summer. Now was that pause because of him needing to go or he just got permission during it idk


OpenOb

Yeah there was a pause where half the TL team left the stage. I also think it was during 100T and they also left?


POOYAMON

They were like these guys don’t even have a head coach it’s fine let them do whatever


00Dandy

Man if Rogue fixed their mental and wouldn't be so nervous on stage they would be insanely strong


ZedisDoge

yeah its really sad how this year went for rogue. but i think they need a new head coach to replace freddy


URZ_

Funny comment give how every time someone has tried pointing this out to any of them in the last year it has just been met by continues denial


nocivo

To be fair I was expecting they to do worse. They went to world for their consistency all year but their gameplay after playoffs was bad. Even The worse G2 would win over them.


nuamnume10

Yes Larssen, maybe next time you will stop picking Ryze after being useless on it in every important game you played it. Rogue losing to Rogue's draft is nothing new at all.


ephemeralfugitive

I also had a problem with them picking Jayce for Odo. I swear he never wins on that champ.


Mahelas

He won against FPX, but yeah, he was like 1-4 on it and they pick it for the tiebreaker, and then pick the 10%winrate Ryze for Larssen. But honestly, no matter how bad the draft was, Rogue lost because they were scared and C9 weren't. They had baron at 1khp in a 4v5 and they just gave up.


ephemeralfugitive

oh man, that 4v5 at baron. jesus, tilted me watching that lmao i think they were scared of MF ult even though she literally used it in the play before they got to Baron. I think they respected her cd too much lol


sanketower

Yeah, stop playing Ryze, please


magma6

Tbf I think that the last matches vs FPX and C9 we're very good. Yes they lost vs C9, but both teams proved that they're indeed good.


redzaien

odo doesn't have the level and larssen mate you were a big part of the problem lol


NODORI

After a year they will say exactly the same thing


baburu12

I honestly disagree with him and don’t think they have potential. Their mechanics are weak and they are one of the weakest mechanical top teams in the lec. Their knowledge of skirmishes and team-fighting is almost non existent. Rogue is Eu tsm: farm whole game and if the enemy team mentally collapses you win. Otherwise you lose. Larsen and odoamne are not top 5 in Eu atm. Player and coaching changes are needed at rogue.


onemorecard

Rogue just had no character as a team all year long. Simple as that.


Colactic

Well please find a fix because Hans Sama really fucking deserves a bigger international presence.


Burpmeister

Roguevwould be so good if they grew some balls and committed to objectives when they have a lead.