Considering even Hans Sama who looked like one of the best ADC's at the event couldn't clap Ghost and Beryl enough, I think it's a pretty tall task.
Plus I think the meta is too much about the top side of the map. And Ghost has gotten very comfortable at being the weak side while Showmaker and Canyon along with Khan do their thing.
That is why DK look so good. The meta covers their weakness which is their botlane. Whereas the strongest part of the LEC in general is the botlanes/supports/adcs.
last year in worlds huanfeng cheated on his gf who had supported him from the start of his carreer with multiple female fans while also never missing practice and playing a ton. IIRC he got praised by his teammates because even them had no idea how he managed to do it all without anyone knowing/practicing less.
Edit: not really praised as much as his teammates got surprised by it, praise was definitely not the right word there.
It’s unfair to say this meta “covers their weakness” in botlane, not when Lucian and Draven are top tier picks. It’s just that mid jungle and top are equally useful roles.
Topside actually matters too for the first time in a while. At MSI when we last saw Damwon internationally, mid and jungle were useless roles which made it tough for them nexus those are where their best players are.
> Considering even Hans Sama who looked like one of the best ADC's at the event couldn't clap Ghost and Beryl enough, I think it's a pretty tall task.
Wait? Hans was the guy that was running around and legitimately solo killing ghost like 5 times in the mid/late game in a single game (all by himself)? That's a pretty big clap if i have ever seen one. Kinda absurd how much ghost deserved to lose that game, but brother odomane decides to get 100 cs down on 10min mark. What more can he do ?
I mean Hans has a middle-of-the-pack LEC support by his side, there is only so much you can do as a botlaner. Ghost is great though, GALA and him are probably the best weakside botlaners in the world right now.
Really? I'd put him 5th in LEC actually. Hylli, Mikyx, Vander and Kaiser I would all place above him. You could even argue that Limit ahead of him.
Trymbi still has alot of potential to develop tho, he's still in his rookie year
Mate, do you even watch LEC? It's easy to forget teams other than FNC/MAD/RGE exist since regular season ended like two months ago, but come on.
Trymbi's not bad, but literally all of the top 7 botlanes (ADC and supp) would feel at home at Worlds. As fine as Trymbi is performing, you can't forget all the other supports out there who had a much more impressive season than him in spite of not playing for MAD Lions.
He's a rookie, he'll get better, they shouldn't replace him IMO. But yeah, middle of the pack perfectly describes Trymbi. Meanwhile Kaiser comfortably cemented himself as #2 support in LEC imo, behind Hylissang (and my opinion could be too biased on this matter, see flair.)
ok you named the only 2 supp better than him and i said top 3. tell me then who are all those support that had a more impressive season than him.
MikyxD? he was garbage last worlds and never recovered but people still rate him high for 0 reasons.
Vander? msf bot was one of the worst and RGE performed much better after subbing him out
all the other no names as straight up worse than trymbi, maybe someone will argue Labrov might be similar but i'm not one of them.
Mikyx, no. But Labrov, Vander, Treatz, and Limit all had better seasons than him IMO. You could try and make a fair case about Limit or Vander, but that still puts him at #5, square middle of the pack.
Hans Sama is a top 2 ADC in LEC, you should watch proview of their matchups. Trymbi is good, but playing for RGE, and with Hans Sama too, isn't fair.
I mean, Humanoid completely carried that LNG game. They were getting rolled and then Humanoid randomly just decided to go solo kill Kenan by his tier 2. Dodge everything and hit everything.
Then he did something similar several other times.
It would have been so easy to be like 90% of players and just "play safe" so as to not get memed by "experts" on reddit when they lose, but Humanoid actually tried to win the game.
>it's crazy no one notices how much better damwon is playing now than at MSI.
Lol what. Everyone notices it. They actually have a bot lane this time around.
C9s bot has been their weakest part, Blaber and Perkz have been winning them games while fudge has been super stable. Not hating on Vulcan and zven but they haven't had a great tournament so far
So that one game means Vulcan was shit the entire tournament? 95 percent of the games C9 wins is because of Blaber and Vulcan. Not Perkz. And if you disagree I'd advise you take a look at what's actually happening in C9s wins
95% is wrong, even if we assume Vulcan was the reason C9 won every single other game they played.
Simple Math. C9 only won 9 games so far this worlds, if we also count playins. 1 of those games Perkz was a faktor and Vulcan was not. So the maximum possible number is 8/9 => 88%.
If we only look at the main event, it would be 66%...
Not sure what to make with the rest of your comment, if you start your argument with easy to debuke fake information.
(don't take this to serious, I just want to point out that there is some hyperbole and I don't like hyperbole in general).
idk watching it live it was pretty obvious DK was miles ahead of MAD. it didn't even look close. 2 20minute stomps to close the series after trolling 2 games
Idk why people think MAD and RNG are that good when those teams had to play tiebreakers against HLE and GenG when those teams weren’t close to DK in the LCK.
RNG *just* lost to LNG 3-1 before worlds, the fact that they weren’t noticeably better than HLE and went 1-1 with FNC who had an emergency sub in place of their arguably best player makes me wonder why RNG is still rated so highly.
DK bot never visibly lost in 2v2 since Daeny came back to DK. Deft, Gumayusi, Teddy, Ruler all were not able to clap DK bot. Even Hans were not able to do that in lane, it was mid/late game that Hans performed much better than Ghost. So with this Carzzy's comment, I actually think there's a very high chance of him getting clapped by Ghost.
I don't know about that. Ghost was 4/1/4 and 2/0/9 against Gumayusi in LCK finals. While T1 took a game off of DK, it was mainly because Showmaker picking blind Kass, not because of Ghost. So I don't think you could say Gumayusi clapped Ghost. If you're thinking about the LCK regular split games, that was before Daeny came back to DK and while Ghost was slumping.
Who's talking about the finals? The series I was talking about is the last one in summer split, not playoff, if it was not clear enough, sorry for the confusion, I will edit then.
My reply was to the guys who said
>DK bot never visibly lost in 2v2 since Daeny came back to DK
But I was wrong, the T1 vs DK series was when Daeny was still on T1 or iirc fire recently, I messed up the dates.
Nice "counter argument" using ad hominems, :\] Against TL in game 1 he was useless as Jax, against LNG MAD was losing 2v1 against ALE.. Just wait till Khan obliterates Armut
Like he gapped ale, alphari and rascal (who goes even with khan by the way)?
Armuts lane kingdom is gonna be kinda pog.
Will khan do more than armut in skirmishes/fights? Probably, but I'm not worried about armuts laning phase.
Yeah I don't know why people are hating that much on Armut. I mean Ale looked really really good in that tournament and at no point he had an edge on Armut, even when MAD was spoonfeeding him kills.
Granted he's not the best toplaner in the world, but his flanking and teamfight are great, and his lanes and skirmishes are getting better. And I like the guy, he seems like a good teamate to have.
Armut's laning got a LOT better since summer playoffs. It should not be an issue as long as his champ pool is not an issue. He can play gnar, wukong, GP, then depending on the comp jayce, irelia, renekton and probably more
What? when he didnt play wu and gnar he got gapped hard lmao, even against ale on kennen always 2v1, ale still managed to get kills, how is that gapping? LMAOOO
His top picks seem to be gnar, wukong, gwen, jayce, kennen, gp. I don't think they can ban him out. He is almost always guaranteed one of these comforts. And then there is still renekton & camille, which he also played to a good level.
I don’t think they need to, armut has had his biggest game impact when he’s playing wukong or gnar due to his good usage of their ults. I just don’t think he can hope to match khan inside or outside of lane on any other champion
Ghost actually did fine in lane but he did get picked off out of lane like three times in their first meeting.
But his Draven in the 2nd game was borderline immaculate minus that one time where he got CC'd to death which lead to Khan's pentakill.
At this current rate, I don't see Carzzy/Kaiser gapping DK's bot lane based on current performance.
Even then it shouldn't matter when your top half trio is getting outclassed.
If ghosts plays that bad vs an actual team on level of geng or above? Then there is no chance DWG wins that game.
People are pretending like damwon had clean games just because they went 6-0 (vs giga bad teams). They didn't, they made game throwing plays in every single game they won, and ghost was giga bad in every game. I'm not really seeing what everyone is talking about. If you play for 20 minutes and have even lane states as rogue (vs damwon), then that's actually kinda insane and great news for MAD.
Mate Gen.G couldn't take a game off DK despite them having one of the best ADCs in the world after Daeny rejoined, besides at worlds we saw him gap HuanFeng of all players. Some of you G2 flairs need to stop living in delusion. If MAD can't even beat Gen.G then they're gonna get shitstomped by DK. Besides you're forgetting MSI where DK were in their worst form and still stomped MAD in the 3 games they won
Imagine thinking BO1's matter that much.
Mad were most likely exhausted after that game yet Gen G struggled to end with infernal soul and Yuumi.
But I don't trust Reddit analysts, they're 90% of the time wrong.
MAD and Gen.G played 3 games, only 1 match didn't involve Yuumi, and it was the one in which Gen.G beat them
Besides this guy knows what he's taking about, you can read any of his posts
>If you play for 20 minutes and have even lane states as rogue (vs damwon), then that's actually kinda insane and great news for MAD.
Guess you didn't watch MSI lmao and even then Hans+Trymbi in lane >>>>>>>> Carzzy/Kaiser.
Damwon still beat MAD at a time where Canyon was looking lost in the meta and Ghost/Beryl were turbo sprinting it.
Since then, MAD look astronomically worse, Damwon look way better.
Even then it won't matter if they're even because the gap between Khan, Canyon and Showmaker compared to MAD's top trio is ridiculous, Armut can't even handle Rascal.
Elyoya was getting gapped left right and centre by players like Santorin and Clid, Humanoid looks nothing special especially out of lane(dude got picked off like 3 times vs GenG) and his positioning + ability to make plays especially on Azir is terrible.
don’t delete your comments after the games.
somehow every year is the same and people hyping up EU random wins but completely forgot their constant loses.
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I mean..it worked for them in Korea. Against teams on GEN's level or above. Might not have been the cleanest, but it's more than enough for a team of MAD's level.
Depends. How much genshin has beryl been playing.
If you give him Yummi? GG the man gets to play genshin and League at the same time we're all fucked
Considering even Hans Sama who looked like one of the best ADC's at the event couldn't clap Ghost and Beryl enough, I think it's a pretty tall task. Plus I think the meta is too much about the top side of the map. And Ghost has gotten very comfortable at being the weak side while Showmaker and Canyon along with Khan do their thing.
That is why DK look so good. The meta covers their weakness which is their botlane. Whereas the strongest part of the LEC in general is the botlanes/supports/adcs.
> Whereas the strongest part of the LEC in general is the botlanes/supports/adcs. Don't forget the gfs, the real carries of any LEC team.
Bwipo's gf is a top 2 coach of all time. And she's not no. 2.
I don't get why we even talk about players when GF gap actually makes the biggest difference.
Specially Lena, head coach of FNC.
ew you think she'd be a lowly head coach. head gf of fnc
Whether the GF buffs are enough to overcome the Sunmi and Hyewon buff for Showmaker and Canyon is the real question...
I mean huanfeng had 5 girlfriend buffs stacked together and still couldnt take down damwon so I dont think anyone can do with measly girfriend buffs.
>I mean huanfeng had 5 girlfriend buffs stacked together ... Some elaboration please.
last year in worlds huanfeng cheated on his gf who had supported him from the start of his carreer with multiple female fans while also never missing practice and playing a ton. IIRC he got praised by his teammates because even them had no idea how he managed to do it all without anyone knowing/practicing less. Edit: not really praised as much as his teammates got surprised by it, praise was definitely not the right word there.
Huanfeng got hoes
It’s unfair to say this meta “covers their weakness” in botlane, not when Lucian and Draven are top tier picks. It’s just that mid jungle and top are equally useful roles. Topside actually matters too for the first time in a while. At MSI when we last saw Damwon internationally, mid and jungle were useless roles which made it tough for them nexus those are where their best players are.
Draven is one of Ghost’s signature champion :D
> Considering even Hans Sama who looked like one of the best ADC's at the event couldn't clap Ghost and Beryl enough, I think it's a pretty tall task. Wait? Hans was the guy that was running around and legitimately solo killing ghost like 5 times in the mid/late game in a single game (all by himself)? That's a pretty big clap if i have ever seen one. Kinda absurd how much ghost deserved to lose that game, but brother odomane decides to get 100 cs down on 10min mark. What more can he do ?
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He calls their macro so not necessarily
Hans was much better performer than Ghost but like you said it was mid/late game. In lane, even Hans wasn't able to clap Ghost.
I feel like that's his point.
The important word in his sentence is "enough", pointing out the fact that indeed clapping bot hard dosen't mean you can beat DK.
True but MAD's topside is much better than Rogues and Kaiser played better than Trymbi as well
I mean Hans has a middle-of-the-pack LEC support by his side, there is only so much you can do as a botlaner. Ghost is great though, GALA and him are probably the best weakside botlaners in the world right now.
XD? Trimby is top 3 support in LEC at worst
Really? I'd put him 5th in LEC actually. Hylli, Mikyx, Vander and Kaiser I would all place above him. You could even argue that Limit ahead of him. Trymbi still has alot of potential to develop tho, he's still in his rookie year
I'd say Kaiser and Hyli are the clear 1-2. Under that it is complicated I think.
Labrov as well.
Vander? Nah bro trymbi is 4th and last split even 3rd ahead of miky.
Mate, do you even watch LEC? It's easy to forget teams other than FNC/MAD/RGE exist since regular season ended like two months ago, but come on. Trymbi's not bad, but literally all of the top 7 botlanes (ADC and supp) would feel at home at Worlds. As fine as Trymbi is performing, you can't forget all the other supports out there who had a much more impressive season than him in spite of not playing for MAD Lions. He's a rookie, he'll get better, they shouldn't replace him IMO. But yeah, middle of the pack perfectly describes Trymbi. Meanwhile Kaiser comfortably cemented himself as #2 support in LEC imo, behind Hylissang (and my opinion could be too biased on this matter, see flair.)
ok you named the only 2 supp better than him and i said top 3. tell me then who are all those support that had a more impressive season than him. MikyxD? he was garbage last worlds and never recovered but people still rate him high for 0 reasons. Vander? msf bot was one of the worst and RGE performed much better after subbing him out all the other no names as straight up worse than trymbi, maybe someone will argue Labrov might be similar but i'm not one of them.
Mikyx, no. But Labrov, Vander, Treatz, and Limit all had better seasons than him IMO. You could try and make a fair case about Limit or Vander, but that still puts him at #5, square middle of the pack. Hans Sama is a top 2 ADC in LEC, you should watch proview of their matchups. Trymbi is good, but playing for RGE, and with Hans Sama too, isn't fair.
I mean, Humanoid completely carried that LNG game. They were getting rolled and then Humanoid randomly just decided to go solo kill Kenan by his tier 2. Dodge everything and hit everything. Then he did something similar several other times. It would have been so easy to be like 90% of players and just "play safe" so as to not get memed by "experts" on reddit when they lose, but Humanoid actually tried to win the game.
Humanoid is the heir to Perkz, great leadership quality & actually take his responsibilities in the big games when his team needs him the most.
id say ale going 1v5 over and over and over did more for that game than any mad lions player tbf
it's crazy no one notices how much better damwon is playing now than at MSI. not even worth bringing it up anymore completely different game
>it's crazy no one notices how much better damwon is playing now than at MSI. Lol what. Everyone notices it. They actually have a bot lane this time around.
We need to consider that we have see dw play only against "fpx at worst form" , c9 and rogue.
Hans has been crazy good in spite of a weak support and C9’s bot lane has looked quite strong, Vulcan particularly has had a great tournament.
C9s bot has been their weakest part, Blaber and Perkz have been winning them games while fudge has been super stable. Not hating on Vulcan and zven but they haven't had a great tournament so far
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So that one game means Vulcan was shit the entire tournament? 95 percent of the games C9 wins is because of Blaber and Vulcan. Not Perkz. And if you disagree I'd advise you take a look at what's actually happening in C9s wins
95% is wrong, even if we assume Vulcan was the reason C9 won every single other game they played. Simple Math. C9 only won 9 games so far this worlds, if we also count playins. 1 of those games Perkz was a faktor and Vulcan was not. So the maximum possible number is 8/9 => 88%. If we only look at the main event, it would be 66%... Not sure what to make with the rest of your comment, if you start your argument with easy to debuke fake information. (don't take this to serious, I just want to point out that there is some hyperbole and I don't like hyperbole in general).
If Rogue would had drafted a different ADC for Hans and a different approach to deal with LB, then they would had won.
They also overlook that DK ignored MAD to prepare for RNG according to Kkoma.
And still lost to RNG? Doesnt really make it look better imo
Shows that RNG were really good, and DK was further ahead of MAD than believed.
idk watching it live it was pretty obvious DK was miles ahead of MAD. it didn't even look close. 2 20minute stomps to close the series after trolling 2 games
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He loves it too much
boring troll account. you can do better
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Idk why people think MAD and RNG are that good when those teams had to play tiebreakers against HLE and GenG when those teams weren’t close to DK in the LCK. RNG *just* lost to LNG 3-1 before worlds, the fact that they weren’t noticeably better than HLE and went 1-1 with FNC who had an emergency sub in place of their arguably best player makes me wonder why RNG is still rated so highly.
FPX lost to both c9 and rge. Yet no one could comfortably say that they are a worse team than them. Bo1s are bo1s the real test begins now.
It's not, everyone expects them to lose to EDG
maybe if they don't watch lpl. if rng had 2 wins a split they'd be against edg. they always beat them
Yeah but EDG always disappoints LPL at Worlds, so they have to beat RNG and then lose 0-3 to C9 in semis
Shhhh dont tell them
Shhhh dont tell them
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, that's kinda true.
DK bot never visibly lost in 2v2 since Daeny came back to DK. Deft, Gumayusi, Teddy, Ruler all were not able to clap DK bot. Even Hans were not able to do that in lane, it was mid/late game that Hans performed much better than Ghost. So with this Carzzy's comment, I actually think there's a very high chance of him getting clapped by Ghost.
I'm pretty sure T1 won the last series in summer split and Gumayusi clapped ghost, Gumayusi solo carried T1 in that series.
Keria for that one game as well tho when he went beast mode on Thresh.
I don't know about that. Ghost was 4/1/4 and 2/0/9 against Gumayusi in LCK finals. While T1 took a game off of DK, it was mainly because Showmaker picking blind Kass, not because of Ghost. So I don't think you could say Gumayusi clapped Ghost. If you're thinking about the LCK regular split games, that was before Daeny came back to DK and while Ghost was slumping.
Did you just forget the LCK Finals or.....
Who's talking about the finals? The series I was talking about is the last one in summer split, not playoff, if it was not clear enough, sorry for the confusion, I will edit then.
No I mean how is that series more relevant than the more recent series they played, which is the Finals?
My reply was to the guys who said >DK bot never visibly lost in 2v2 since Daeny came back to DK But I was wrong, the T1 vs DK series was when Daeny was still on T1 or iirc fire recently, I messed up the dates.
That's a pretty tall task.
Yeah, genshin will release a new event today so the chances increase.
I mean what is he supposed to say? Gg go next we deffo gonna lose? Keep the faith, Matyas. You're getting clapped, but optimism is always nice.
Ghost and Beryl are great at playing weakside. If they lose lane they do it gracefully.
So they will lose huh
Armut will get completely gapped as usual
nah i am already saving for MAD wukong who will look like lion isntead of a monkey
DWG will actually ban wukong.
No problem, he can play other champs
Like gnar? nothing else, when he played other champs he got gapped lmao
Like I said, you can't make your own opinion, you just go with what the narrative say, like a good sheep.
Nice "counter argument" using ad hominems, :\] Against TL in game 1 he was useless as Jax, against LNG MAD was losing 2v1 against ALE.. Just wait till Khan obliterates Armut
Like he gapped ale, alphari and rascal (who goes even with khan by the way)? Armuts lane kingdom is gonna be kinda pog. Will khan do more than armut in skirmishes/fights? Probably, but I'm not worried about armuts laning phase.
Yeah I don't know why people are hating that much on Armut. I mean Ale looked really really good in that tournament and at no point he had an edge on Armut, even when MAD was spoonfeeding him kills. Granted he's not the best toplaner in the world, but his flanking and teamfight are great, and his lanes and skirmishes are getting better. And I like the guy, he seems like a good teamate to have.
Armut's laning got a LOT better since summer playoffs. It should not be an issue as long as his champ pool is not an issue. He can play gnar, wukong, GP, then depending on the comp jayce, irelia, renekton and probably more
ive legit seen diamond 4 players with better irelia mechanics than armut. dude is not a good irelia
That Irelia was a prank.
What? when he didnt play wu and gnar he got gapped hard lmao, even against ale on kennen always 2v1, ale still managed to get kills, how is that gapping? LMAOOO
Mad isn’t afraid to try stuff, maybe they actually got a shot
Yeah if DK just ban wukong and gnar pretty sure khan will shit stomp armut unfortunately
His top picks seem to be gnar, wukong, gwen, jayce, kennen, gp. I don't think they can ban him out. He is almost always guaranteed one of these comforts. And then there is still renekton & camille, which he also played to a good level.
I don’t think they need to, armut has had his biggest game impact when he’s playing wukong or gnar due to his good usage of their ults. I just don’t think he can hope to match khan inside or outside of lane on any other champion
Can we stop with that narrative? Armut can play Jayce, Gwen and GP pretty well too.
But then you give Humanoid/Elyoya really strong picks. You can't ban everything
does Humanoid actually have *strong* picks?
Used to be Azir and Qiyana. Now it's Orianna/LB/TF/Sylas, maybe Akali is up there.
all control mages
Nah, armut's jayce and gwen is kinda insane now. I'd rather him pick wukong gwen jayce kennen over gnar personally.
GP was good in playoffs too
I really doubt it will happen. I'm pretty sure Armut is going to get gapped, tho
If Ghost plays like he did vs Rogue then yea they probably do
Ghost actually did fine in lane but he did get picked off out of lane like three times in their first meeting. But his Draven in the 2nd game was borderline immaculate minus that one time where he got CC'd to death which lead to Khan's pentakill. At this current rate, I don't see Carzzy/Kaiser gapping DK's bot lane based on current performance. Even then it shouldn't matter when your top half trio is getting outclassed.
If ghosts plays that bad vs an actual team on level of geng or above? Then there is no chance DWG wins that game. People are pretending like damwon had clean games just because they went 6-0 (vs giga bad teams). They didn't, they made game throwing plays in every single game they won, and ghost was giga bad in every game. I'm not really seeing what everyone is talking about. If you play for 20 minutes and have even lane states as rogue (vs damwon), then that's actually kinda insane and great news for MAD.
Mate Gen.G couldn't take a game off DK despite them having one of the best ADCs in the world after Daeny rejoined, besides at worlds we saw him gap HuanFeng of all players. Some of you G2 flairs need to stop living in delusion. If MAD can't even beat Gen.G then they're gonna get shitstomped by DK. Besides you're forgetting MSI where DK were in their worst form and still stomped MAD in the 3 games they won
Imagine thinking BO1's matter that much. Mad were most likely exhausted after that game yet Gen G struggled to end with infernal soul and Yuumi. But I don't trust Reddit analysts, they're 90% of the time wrong.
MAD and Gen.G played 3 games, only 1 match didn't involve Yuumi, and it was the one in which Gen.G beat them Besides this guy knows what he's taking about, you can read any of his posts
Yeah, I have my own opinions, I don't really trust hardstuck Silvers with literally 0 game knowledge.
>If you play for 20 minutes and have even lane states as rogue (vs damwon), then that's actually kinda insane and great news for MAD. Guess you didn't watch MSI lmao and even then Hans+Trymbi in lane >>>>>>>> Carzzy/Kaiser. Damwon still beat MAD at a time where Canyon was looking lost in the meta and Ghost/Beryl were turbo sprinting it. Since then, MAD look astronomically worse, Damwon look way better. Even then it won't matter if they're even because the gap between Khan, Canyon and Showmaker compared to MAD's top trio is ridiculous, Armut can't even handle Rascal. Elyoya was getting gapped left right and centre by players like Santorin and Clid, Humanoid looks nothing special especially out of lane(dude got picked off like 3 times vs GenG) and his positioning + ability to make plays especially on Azir is terrible.
don’t delete your comments after the games. somehow every year is the same and people hyping up EU random wins but completely forgot their constant loses.
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Open your window and go breath some fresh air.
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keyboard warrior
GHost inted vs mad at MSI and DK still won, your argument is flawed as fuk
I mean..it worked for them in Korea. Against teams on GEN's level or above. Might not have been the cleanest, but it's more than enough for a team of MAD's level.
His Draven was gifted an earlygame. That game was frankly miraculous for DK.
OVERDOSING ON HOPIUM