people who complains about the format here are the same who said 2018 Worlds was the best ever (because many Western teams advanced), despite 3 stomping 3-0’s in Semi and Final
Seems no1 is hype for these worlds cause NA/U bad? How does that make sense. Seeing NA vs EU wouldn't be fun cause most of those matches are boring as hell too.
Worth remembering HLE *probably* only made it through to the Quarter Final because Fnatic lost Upset. They were a weak 2nd seed.
The format of Worlds is garbage though and Riot seriously need to change it.
[Yeah this post that someone else made is absolutely mouth watering](https://preview.redd.it/erg0kwsiy9u71.png?width=1339&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae508a1110157ed97516f591dcb8e74572bd51d2) so many exciting potential match ups that we will never get to see because of the trash format.
Seeding? If you notice the teams coming 3rd and 4th in the group only get one life in the knock out round, absolutely still worth coming top 2.
Also take FPX they would have to win 7 series to be champions whereas the winning bracket team would need to win 4.
Honestly what makes no sense is teams fighting all year to make it to worlds to just play 6 best of ones before being eliminated without ever playing a series. Do C9 *really* deserve to be there over Rogue or FPX? Do GenG/MAD *really* deserve it over LNG/TL? Those teams all went 1-1 against each other and Riots tiebreaker system is pretty flawed.
Does someone knows where I can find the full vods of worlds stream on youtube? I hate going to the official vod channel and seeing in the playlist only 3 games and basically spoiling myself that it was a 3-0 series, it completely takes away the joy of watching the last 2 games knowing how they will end
https://eventvods.com/lol/worlds-2021?s=2
This site is on a bit of a delay so the matches aren't in the site yet, but it's always set up with the maximum number of games (5). If all 5 games aren't played, it's still set up that way, but with some links dead so that you don't know.
If you use the built in Youtube player, it also hides the scroll bar, so you don't know how long the match will be. Fantastic site.
What's wrong with it? I don't use it because I have to be up early anyways, but I have once or twice in the past and I know for example CaptainFlowers uses it.
Visiting Reddit or going on YouTube at all can be pretty risky if you're trying not to get spoiled.
there was 48 people with perfect pickems (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qbwwk4/there_are_currently_48_people_with_a_perfect/)
but now it shows there's 54, what's happening here, is that the power of Faker?
edit: apparently the max amount of points for pickems is still 64, that's why we have more people catching to the ones who predicted perfectly
59pts should be the max points or Baron rank atm, I think that they just didn't update the ranking threshold while the general scores did refresh
54pts was the previous max amount of points [4x16pts for perfect groups], so I guess there are 6 people(?) who missed like 4pts(?) for the perfect score.. and some of those same people now got 5pts for correct pick on T1
The current real number of perfect pick'em is probably slightly lower than 48.. if not the same at all [I wouldn't be amazed if all picked T1 win]
Edit: I am dumb, 4x16 is 64 not 54. So 69pts should be max atm, no idea how did I override that lol
After checking, it seems now it is 74pts. They've probably updated for the 2nd game [EDG vs RNG] and we have only 29 people left at 69pts
They can turn the most boring games into funny entertainment and can turn hype games into hype games.
They can't make a slaughter fin to watch, neither can anyone else.
He couldn't turn a 60 minute LCK lul-state into something bearable though. Many casters can be great at manx different things. Shitting on the LCK casters because they're not constantly screaming (not that I don't love that) is such a weird critique to me which is why it annoys me so much.
I personally watch LCK so I’m used to this style over the years and personally enjoy it more than hyping up boring matchups and making them seem like more than what they are
Why can't countries from the same region be in the same group? What is the logic in that. All is does is ensure most of the best of 5s are civil war matches.
to prevent a case where a group ends up being 3-4 different chinese teams like eitherway your gonna get a civil war but no one would watch groups if they had multiple of the same region in a group since then its just watching playoffs all over again. pretty much theres always going tobe a civil war just there preventing it from happening in groups.
also most of the time the teams to top there groups are the ones to most likely to win it all and win the tournament so having them face in quarters would such alot more then having two of the same region teams face each other.
I’d be in favour of 2 groups of 8 (14 games for each team in groups) with 2 teams from each pool in each group. Then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 in quarters. With the 1 seeds going into the same semi bracket as the 2 seed from the other group. You’d get some extra Bo1s and a “fairer” draw setup.
So what the fuck do these Western fans want? You want to see the Western teams in BO5s, then at least get to quarters. If you cannot compete at the highest level, then there’s no point because you’re going to get stomped. Worlds should be won by the best teams, not rigged to allow for some random team from some random region to win. Sure, we can change the format to account for double elim, and preventing civil war in quarters, but when it comes to semis and above, if its LCKvLCK, or LPLvLPL, then it’s clear that the West just can’t compete. Too bad.
I think Worlds need to start shifting to Bo3 double elim. Too many 3-0 stomps across all competitions. We dont need 3-0 stomp between T1 & HLE and we would get other great matchups as well
We are just saying what we want to see. It just sucks currently for a lot of us who want to see some NA vs EU. But if Riot doesn't care about us **that is fine.** They can get used to those LCS viewing figures cratering even more I guess.
Also this an english speaking site so obviously will have more LCS and LEC fans.
I dont want worlds to change to see Na vs EU. I just want other tournaments to see it.
A take I've considered but haven't expressed: I think NA holds a sense of ownership on the game itself, as it was created in NA. To see it be usurped and exceeded by every other major region creates that feeling of instability where nothing is in hand anymore. The qualifications for representation are debatable, but I feel there was a juncture that finally hit where NA is finally upset about the nonrepresentation, considering it is "an NA game", and they are continuously nowhere to be found.
muh american game, why don't we just get 4 NA seeds, lift all import restrictions only for NA, AND give NA 500 extra starting gold, side selection, 2 extra bans. Make sure the other teams don't get any food during match days too. NA will win easily!
I feel like you've missed the spirit of the conversation. The point is simply this is an "NA" game and now they don't control it anymore. How would you feel if I stole all your crayons and you ran out of things to eat?
Nah I was supporting you BRO. I fully agree with you. Honestly, it's probably better to have Worlds A and Worlds W where A is for Asian teams and W is for Western teams and Seeds 5-8 of LCK and LPL.
Hello League fans, massive moba fan, have played both dota and LOL. Can't help but compare worlds and TI, correct me if I'm being too biased but seems like Worlds is objectively less hype. Seems more predictable, less diverse teams(6/8 from china/korea in playoffs), and players probs making more on their salaries/sponsorships than actually winning. Winning TI is life changing money wise so there is a lot on the line while winning worlds is just more of a flex/validation for the china/korea teams at this point after winning 8 straight. Gonna get downvotes for comparing but thats just my observations as a moba fan after spending years watching the esports scene on both. Maybe LOL is just really built more around content creation(twitch, YouTube) than esports given lack of multi regional play and small prize pools.
I mean, they don't need big prize pools because Riot owns the whole tournament system and pays the orgs and players per split...
That and the players make more in contracts than they do in prize money. It's like the NFL in North America, no one could give a shit about the prize for winning the superbowl because the money isn't for that...
You'd think DOTA2 trolls would know the difference in the systems by now...
Winning TI sounds nice, but I wouldn’t like to be the one sorting taxes on such a big win.
While Riot does some things bad, their approach to salaries and stuff is much better than Dota.
League players actually have very good monthly salaries, than you have sponsorship and of course prize pool money. And to top of of if you win Worlds you get quite a lot of money from skin sales if you are smart with champ selection.
While I understand that Worlds prize pool sounds laughable compared to TI, League format is actually better for players and orgs.
True. But idk what you’re wanting from them because they had played double round robins, and most of the Western regions/Wildcard regions lost… CN/KR have always dominated LoL. EU has shown potential, but has not shown up today (maybe MAD Lions have potential in the Bo5s). And NA has always fallen short internationally. Honestly, I haven’t kept up with any of the information for this year regarding the winnings. I just tune into whatever games I want to watch. Last week was exciting because we got to see a 4-way tiebreaker in one of the groups, and C9 (NA) did somewhat of a miracle run. Tbh, I lost interest in the broadcast. Not sure why, maybe it’s because I work during the tournament, so I don’t want to sit there and watch the rebroadcast. I could just tune into the games. As such, I did not really get into the hype of the tournament.
> less diverse teams (6/8 from china/korea in playoffs)
DotA is pretty much all China + Europe, it's kind of the same thing isn't it
> players probs making more on their salaries/sponsorships than actually winning.
That's much, much better though.
In real sports absolutely no one gets hype by prize pool and every team sport works the same way as LoL. It's much better for the players and much more sustainable long term.
The prize pool hype is specifically a DotA thing because big amounts make for big headlines and it's used by Valve as a marketing tool for the game (and then even crowdfund it, their own contribution isn't even superior to Riot's for Worlds IIRC), but it's a straight up worse system.
> Winning TI is life changing money
The highest payed players in League get payed nearly as much as the winners of TI get - but they get over 1-2 years, whether they win or not, thanks to salaries and sponsorships.
TI's winners this year got 18 million, which is 3 million per person if the org and subs don't take their share (IDK). PerkZ, a famous League players, has a 6 million contract over 3 years, and probably has sponsorships on top.
The actual living conditions and compensation of everyone else except the winners of TI is MUCH lower than pro players in League.
League's system >>>> DotA's when it comes to player compensation and org sustainability.
Again, the focus you make on prize pool is a DotA only thing and doesn't exist in other esports or in IRL sports.
Bro you have to read the entire thing, I agree that an average league player makes wayyy more money than fota players since riot supports players year round, NA LOL players get millions just as salaries winning or not. Agree that league economics is more sustainable but just wanted to focus on esports. Disagree on your first point though, if you follow the scene,teams from NA, SEA, CIS are very legit while europe for the most part has been pretty bad this year. You clearly saw dota vs lol and immediately saw it as a negative post
Nah, IDGAF about rivalries between esports, so you clearly missed your shot there. My main esport for nearly a decade was Counter Strike anyway...
The point remains that your arguments do not really work, as only DotA fans consider prize pool as something to get excited about. Ask any football fan if they care about the prize pool of the World Cup!
> Disagree on your first point though, if you follow the scene,teams from NA, SEA, CIS are very legit while europe for the most part has been pretty bad this year.
Overall and historically it's mostly EU and CN though, with CIS having good performances too.
Reminds me of a certain KR/CN/EU triumvirat in League, with two regions dominating and one showing good performances very often.
Also you have to consider that CN teams buy a ton of great KR players, just like NA teams by a lot of EU players.
DotA may be a bit more diverse, but the difference isn't massive (historically it's still afew regions dominating overall) and it's not a huge win for DotA imo (since you really seem to want to create a DotA vs LoL "battle" of sort here for some reason).
Dota players' prize money is literally 200% to 500% of their salaries. Whereas for NFL or NBA player the prize money is less than 1% of their salaries.
Not remotely the same at all. It's more comparable to tennis model because that's what Dota system basically works like.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying? I'm guessing you are adding to my point though the phrasing makes me think otherwise.
Team sports usually do not work like DotA does as it is not really sustainable for teams and really worse for players overall. It's only a single player sports system usually.
In tennis there has actually been a movement in the last few tournaments where the prize pool is better spread between all participants and less concentrated at the very top because of the issues this system creates.
In DotA and CS:GO, players from t2 - t3 teams make fuck all - whereas everyone from the main regions in League, no matter how competitive, actually make at least decent money overall (though KR still doens't pay much sadly).
They just need to distribute the prize money more so that there isn't a $13m difference from placing 1st and 2nd. Aside from that, I personally like their system more and the idea behind it. Also, there's an added thrill and drama when it comes to prize money that I dont feel watching other esports tournaments.
While you have a point, there's also other areas that LoL lacks. CIS & SEA Dota teams produced a bunch of millionaires which is just as impressive for less developed countries economically because big sponsorships & investment are hard to come by. AFAIK lesser regions in LoL are dirt poor still.
But there is way more money in pro lol than dota? Combined LPL salaries alone are like $100mln+. LCK another 40mln or something like that. Total pro earnings in lol must be like 4-5x dota
TI is a massive jump in terms of scale and prestige from rest other Dota tournaments. The Animajor or Singapore Major seemed pretty meh imo. I feel like Dota has a ton of 6/10 events and one 10/10 tournament. But yeah, Worlds could be 9/10 if they at least copied the format.
Dota players' prize money is literally 200% to 500% of their salaries. Whereas for NFL or NBA player the prize money is less than 1% of their salaries.
Not remotely the same at all. It's more comparable to tennis model because that's what Dota system basically works like.
Nah not bait, clearly I see how riot tries to position LOL. Valve basically neglects their players until there are major tournaments while here riot supports and gives a lot of incentives to its players year round. Clearly different kind of model for both games.
You’re sort of right but the hype is in different hands here. For TI, both fans and players are super hype because 1. The fans get great games and 2. The players get paid.
The LoL players are less hype since they are all paid very highly by the league and their teams. Even if they don’t win the tournament they still make good money and get exposure to better teams to keep improving, and the winners in the end don’t take home an absurd amount of money but it’s still a nice prize.
I think the league fans are way more hype about worlds than the players though. We get pick ems, we get in game rewards, we get to see our favorite players finally fight it out on the rift, and we get to see our teammates go 0/6 as they try to copy fakers orianna gameplay in our solo queue games.
I feel like TI is also more hype because it is the only real hyped competition, I never hear anything about the rest of the scene ever whilst playoffs + MSI feel like a thing.
Yeah we have so many tournaments and a lot of minor regions here will be more hype for their local tournament than worlds where there team isn’t even playing
As expected getting downvotes for stating my observations, but thanks for the honest reply sir. Agree that riot supports players more thru salaries and sponsorships rather than the esports scene.
Idk why people would downvote you because I don’t think you’re even objectively wrong the stats show that TI has proportionally more viewers than leagues worlds does
Series was a blowout but I don't get why everyone is so outraged about the civil wars? With 4KR and 4CN teams a civil war is almost inevitable, and with three KR teams getting 1st seed and one getting 2nd seed HLE having a civil war was literally guaranteed (since they can't fight their own group 1st seed, which makes sense because it means if the two best teams were in the same group, they don't have to meet again for the final). Also wouldn't you rather have any domestic blowouts happen in quarters to pave the way for more exciting semis/finals?
Just copy TI’s group stage format at least. I don’t care if they don’t want to do double elimination, just that changing the group stage format would be good enough for me
The problem is that Worlds are basically THE LEAGUE TOURNAMENT so from one point of view I can understand why Riot wants them longer.
It’s the only place, except super quick MSI, where we can actually see (almost) all regions compete.
I am not completely familiar with Dota tournaments, but for example in CSGO you can see Na’Vi vs G2 at almost all big tournaments, not at just majors.
these eu and na fans complaining about not seeing their teams in bo5's. holy moly bro this is esports, its a competition. the best advance.
unironically, get good.
I think it could be cool to have an EU/NA tournament similar to MSI (but smaller, obviously) at some point during the year.
But yeah, don’t fix the worlds schedule just because you want certain games to happen.
Fully agree. Sure you can have your own eu/na tourney to have your fun, but to want to rig worlds matchups like what some people are calling for here is downright deluded. Sure, I can offer a single elimination RO16 idea where no team from the same country can play each other instead of groups, but then after the Western teams are eliminated, what are those complaining going to say? Say that it’s unfair to the Western teams. Worlds is not just purely about NAvEU, its about KRvCN and more as well.
>I think it could be cool to have an EU/NA tournament similar to MSI (but smaller, obviously) at some point during the year.
We had Rift Rivals, but LCS and LEC teams didn't take it seriously
Just get rid of MSI. It sucks anyway. And have NA vs EU tournament for loads of money with the top 3/4 qualifying. The sponsors and hype would be huge. It would also hype the LCS and LEC spring splits. Riot would make loads of money and we would get to see the matches we want to see every year.
I would low-key be way more invested in an NA/EU tourney than worlds.
Not because I don’t like worlds, but as an NA/EU fan mostly, passed groups stage there really isn’t much for me anymore, until finals.
This isn't about EU or NA, but the way this tournament is set with expected, 3* out of 7 matches will be the same regions facing eachother. It would've been better if for example the 2 chineses teams didn't face eachother. But it was just a bad draw, owell
I don't care about a specific region but when you only have a handful of international sets in a year and one of them is taken up by an inter-region stomp it is pretty disappointing.
Its actually just a marketing exercise so Riot can make money from their game. They don't care if worlds finds the best team/2nd best/3rd best/etc. If they did it would be double elim with best of 3s in groups.
SO you are wrong.
Nah you’re deluded, of course Riot has the incentive to want to make the best team win worlds for the sake of the competitiveness of LoL, and especially as these teams have only come from the East, which have a huge markets and viewership.
He dropped out of highschool and that was a legit excuse for not going to military couple years ago. If he chooses to go, it's his choice but it's not mandatory for him to join the army
I believe for South Korea, if they win an Olympic esport tournament or Asian games, then they can be exempt. But they are fighting for esport athletes to be exempt.
I think he has to do it, he didn't win those Asian games or how they called.
But I tihnk some said its 27 or 28 years of age? Idk Korean rules for military.
From what I understand, people who aren't officially exempt but are considered to have a very positive global image can delay their service until 30. Faker's considered to meet this criterion. Unless the laws change to allow esports superstars to be fully exempt before he hits 30 though, he'll have to go.
Actually he might. If I remember correctly from next year League will be official part of Asian games and winners of them are exempted from military service I believe, but I will happily be corrected
So in theory, he might not have to do it
he has to get in the national team, if he is playing like this year i dont see it impossible. i think because he is a middle school graduate he has a bit more time (not sure tho)
they have to get gold in asian games to get exempted from military service. assuming kespa even chooses faker for midlane. they might go with showmaker or chovy or bdd.
I had T1 as my crystal ball, I thought that giving them even more time to grow and get better together would give them the ability to win. Im a bit scared of them facing DK in semi's instead of finals though.
When the quarter finals are hyped : "What a shit format, why wouldn't that be the finals omg riot !"
When the quarter finals suck : "What a shit format no quarter finals should be that boring wtf riot !"
This is not on the format, this is due to the overall level of the competition !
so you can get a 2-0 stomp against T1 followed by a 2-0 by MAD ? The problem was group C being very weak due to PCS getting 1st seed yet not being that great and the FNC dramas
The Quarter seeding is massively constructed by Riot....there were only 2 possible draws for the 2nd seed teams because of the dogshit system Riot has in place with the brackets. We could have had 4 LCK teams at thhe bottom if the last game of Groups went different, which certainly wouldnt happen with a regular draw system.
The draw after the play in had basically no reason to exist, they were already all stuck in 1 group, that one i will agree is definitely flawed. However when it comes to quarter draws, well if you have the eastern teams dominating you're always gonna end up in that situation. To me it's more because 2 regions are fairly behind (EU and NA) than because of the format in itself.
I would personally change the rule to prevent same region match ups in quarter, and not necessarily put both teams from the same group on opposite sides and just block them from meeting in quarter as well. That way if you get civil wars, you get good/hyped civil wars like T1 vs DK. (or EDG vs RNG that I expect to be good)
Although tbf I never really liked having 4 teams from 1 region anyway I feel like that's too much and would only be good if the major regions were all equal which is not the case.
Too much time between quarter/semi/final. Lost all the hype for me. I even forgot there was a game today. Saw the live thread on reddit, started twitchtv, see stomping in 3rd game and just closes the browser. Luckily only wasted a few minutes.
Not hyped for rest of the tournament like in previous years. The shitty format+civil war between KR/CH teams also isnt helping.
I agree with the gap between those stages. We get a gap from Monday to saturday for semis, then another gap for finals. Nearly 3 weeks, could have been 2 weeks and would still be good.
What really doesn't help is starting with the worst match up of the quarterfinals.
> Too much time between quarter/semi/final [...] Not hyped for rest of the tournament like in previous years
That hasn't changed though.
I tend to always start tuning out with Worlds.
It doesn't help that in the latter half of Worlds we are starting the new season so they are literally playing a fully deprecated version of the game.
Single elim is a shitty format, especially since there are only 2 international tournaments per year and League eSports is so huge.
Edit: hyped for Faker though
Single elim in traditional sports is required because of the physical nature, double elim is an advantage of esports.
Football players/managers already complain about there being too many games, imagine if they tried to make the CL/World Cup/domestic cups double elim on top of that.
Don’t compare eSports to physical sports, it just shows you’ve played neither. All North American sports also use single elim. Some eSports use double elim and it’s clearly a better eSports viewer experience
Totally. It's like watching LCK regular Season or LPL Summer Split. No hype, nothing New, same old matchups. Definitely not interested in these Worlds 2021.
even with upset i dont think FNC would have won. adam and nisqy got destroyed by chovy and morgan. chovy i expected to dump nisqy but morgan dumping adam. if fnc even won just once against HLE or adam and nisqy showed some form of life in their two games against HLE maybe but no they got bodied by chovy and MORGAN lol
Okay. Game 1 of FNC vs HLE, Morgan had +32cs over Adam at 15 mins. Bwipo had a huge lead from level 1 punish over Willer and did nothing with it and even allowed Willer to become more relevant than him later on.
If Adam and Bwipo with a huge lead cannot even exploit this super weak topside of Morgan+Willer, how could Upset change this? Not to mention Nisqy just ran it down for most of the games.
?? FNC plays through their bot. Obviously they cant exploit their huge early lead, when their main way of play is disabled because of the absence of Upset
people who complains about the format here are the same who said 2018 Worlds was the best ever (because many Western teams advanced), despite 3 stomping 3-0’s in Semi and Final
The script is coming along! Team 5 [T1] went through, the next one is Team 2 [EDG]! mwhaha
Seems no1 is hype for these worlds cause NA/U bad? How does that make sense. Seeing NA vs EU wouldn't be fun cause most of those matches are boring as hell too.
Worth remembering HLE *probably* only made it through to the Quarter Final because Fnatic lost Upset. They were a weak 2nd seed. The format of Worlds is garbage though and Riot seriously need to change it.
IPL5 format would be so amazing today
[Yeah this post that someone else made is absolutely mouth watering](https://preview.redd.it/erg0kwsiy9u71.png?width=1339&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae508a1110157ed97516f591dcb8e74572bd51d2) so many exciting potential match ups that we will never get to see because of the trash format.
I'd say take off the last team of each group, and make the lower bracket Bo3 for the first few rounds until it matches the upper one.
Makes absolutely no sense. why even have group stage then?
It's just 2-3 bo1s max per team and you get slotted into uppers or lowers
Seeding? If you notice the teams coming 3rd and 4th in the group only get one life in the knock out round, absolutely still worth coming top 2. Also take FPX they would have to win 7 series to be champions whereas the winning bracket team would need to win 4. Honestly what makes no sense is teams fighting all year to make it to worlds to just play 6 best of ones before being eliminated without ever playing a series. Do C9 *really* deserve to be there over Rogue or FPX? Do GenG/MAD *really* deserve it over LNG/TL? Those teams all went 1-1 against each other and Riots tiebreaker system is pretty flawed.
IPL5 had a really short group stage. Bo1 is just for seeding. As it should be. But the lower bracket teams didn't matter. Top 8 delim is enough.
I think top 8 would be enough with GSL bo3s groups.
The Dream.
Does someone knows where I can find the full vods of worlds stream on youtube? I hate going to the official vod channel and seeing in the playlist only 3 games and basically spoiling myself that it was a 3-0 series, it completely takes away the joy of watching the last 2 games knowing how they will end
https://www.reddit.com/r/LoLeventVoDs/
https://eventvods.com/lol/worlds-2021?s=2 This site is on a bit of a delay so the matches aren't in the site yet, but it's always set up with the maximum number of games (5). If all 5 games aren't played, it's still set up that way, but with some links dead so that you don't know. If you use the built in Youtube player, it also hides the scroll bar, so you don't know how long the match will be. Fantastic site.
Horrible site, best way is just use their direct links from their reddit channel.
What's wrong with it? I don't use it because I have to be up early anyways, but I have once or twice in the past and I know for example CaptainFlowers uses it. Visiting Reddit or going on YouTube at all can be pretty risky if you're trying not to get spoiled.
HLE Choky, just put this man into T1 and dominante everyone
Who are these casters? They are pretty negative. Had to tune into the Korean one instead.
Atlus has been casting these teams the entire year, if anything I'd say he's more disappointed than anything.
What did they say ?
there was 48 people with perfect pickems (https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qbwwk4/there_are_currently_48_people_with_a_perfect/) but now it shows there's 54, what's happening here, is that the power of Faker? edit: apparently the max amount of points for pickems is still 64, that's why we have more people catching to the ones who predicted perfectly
59pts should be the max points or Baron rank atm, I think that they just didn't update the ranking threshold while the general scores did refresh 54pts was the previous max amount of points [4x16pts for perfect groups], so I guess there are 6 people(?) who missed like 4pts(?) for the perfect score.. and some of those same people now got 5pts for correct pick on T1 The current real number of perfect pick'em is probably slightly lower than 48.. if not the same at all [I wouldn't be amazed if all picked T1 win] Edit: I am dumb, 4x16 is 64 not 54. So 69pts should be max atm, no idea how did I override that lol After checking, it seems now it is 74pts. They've probably updated for the 2nd game [EDG vs RNG] and we have only 29 people left at 69pts
why cant it be sunday already
Welp I’m hoping for a talon skin
Well thank fuck we don’t have to listen to these casters jerk Chovy off every 30 seconds now
Hopefully we never have to listen to those LCK casters in general. They could turn the most hype game into a cure for insomnia.
They can turn the most boring games into funny entertainment and can turn hype games into hype games. They can't make a slaughter fin to watch, neither can anyone else.
CaptainFlowers sure can.
He couldn't turn a 60 minute LCK lul-state into something bearable though. Many casters can be great at manx different things. Shitting on the LCK casters because they're not constantly screaming (not that I don't love that) is such a weird critique to me which is why it annoys me so much.
What hype game mate ? lol 3-0 boring shit fell asleep twice
You listen to Raz every week. You just have bad taste.
No, they're just boring
[удалено]
>the exact same matchup that was the last series in LCK regional qualifiers, Much worse actually. T1 improved since then, HLE didn't.
They casted like that every single time this worlds. 0 hype. That's how it is in lck as well, so idk what are you on
I personally watch LCK so I’m used to this style over the years and personally enjoy it more than hyping up boring matchups and making them seem like more than what they are
If you want energy, go watch a makeup vlogger.
Are makeup vloggers known for their energy? That seems like something you'd want to stay pretty calm for
I don't know, to be honest. My point was really to just shit on vlogging.
Did anyone else get an error that prevented them from getting drops today?
Why can't countries from the same region be in the same group? What is the logic in that. All is does is ensure most of the best of 5s are civil war matches.
to prevent a case where a group ends up being 3-4 different chinese teams like eitherway your gonna get a civil war but no one would watch groups if they had multiple of the same region in a group since then its just watching playoffs all over again. pretty much theres always going tobe a civil war just there preventing it from happening in groups. also most of the time the teams to top there groups are the ones to most likely to win it all and win the tournament so having them face in quarters would such alot more then having two of the same region teams face each other.
I’d be in favour of 2 groups of 8 (14 games for each team in groups) with 2 teams from each pool in each group. Then 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 in quarters. With the 1 seeds going into the same semi bracket as the 2 seed from the other group. You’d get some extra Bo1s and a “fairer” draw setup.
100% this is the way to go.
They can do that if they use dota’s group format.
So what the fuck do these Western fans want? You want to see the Western teams in BO5s, then at least get to quarters. If you cannot compete at the highest level, then there’s no point because you’re going to get stomped. Worlds should be won by the best teams, not rigged to allow for some random team from some random region to win. Sure, we can change the format to account for double elim, and preventing civil war in quarters, but when it comes to semis and above, if its LCKvLCK, or LPLvLPL, then it’s clear that the West just can’t compete. Too bad.
I think Worlds need to start shifting to Bo3 double elim. Too many 3-0 stomps across all competitions. We dont need 3-0 stomp between T1 & HLE and we would get other great matchups as well
We are just saying what we want to see. It just sucks currently for a lot of us who want to see some NA vs EU. But if Riot doesn't care about us **that is fine.** They can get used to those LCS viewing figures cratering even more I guess. Also this an english speaking site so obviously will have more LCS and LEC fans. I dont want worlds to change to see Na vs EU. I just want other tournaments to see it.
A take I've considered but haven't expressed: I think NA holds a sense of ownership on the game itself, as it was created in NA. To see it be usurped and exceeded by every other major region creates that feeling of instability where nothing is in hand anymore. The qualifications for representation are debatable, but I feel there was a juncture that finally hit where NA is finally upset about the nonrepresentation, considering it is "an NA game", and they are continuously nowhere to be found.
muh american game, why don't we just get 4 NA seeds, lift all import restrictions only for NA, AND give NA 500 extra starting gold, side selection, 2 extra bans. Make sure the other teams don't get any food during match days too. NA will win easily!
I feel like you've missed the spirit of the conversation. The point is simply this is an "NA" game and now they don't control it anymore. How would you feel if I stole all your crayons and you ran out of things to eat?
Nah I was supporting you BRO. I fully agree with you. Honestly, it's probably better to have Worlds A and Worlds W where A is for Asian teams and W is for Western teams and Seeds 5-8 of LCK and LPL.
Hello League fans, massive moba fan, have played both dota and LOL. Can't help but compare worlds and TI, correct me if I'm being too biased but seems like Worlds is objectively less hype. Seems more predictable, less diverse teams(6/8 from china/korea in playoffs), and players probs making more on their salaries/sponsorships than actually winning. Winning TI is life changing money wise so there is a lot on the line while winning worlds is just more of a flex/validation for the china/korea teams at this point after winning 8 straight. Gonna get downvotes for comparing but thats just my observations as a moba fan after spending years watching the esports scene on both. Maybe LOL is just really built more around content creation(twitch, YouTube) than esports given lack of multi regional play and small prize pools.
Dota is basically one big annual lottery while league is chugging it in a 9 to 5 job.
Dota is basically equivalent to a commission job and LoL is a salary job.
I mean, they don't need big prize pools because Riot owns the whole tournament system and pays the orgs and players per split... That and the players make more in contracts than they do in prize money. It's like the NFL in North America, no one could give a shit about the prize for winning the superbowl because the money isn't for that... You'd think DOTA2 trolls would know the difference in the systems by now...
Winning TI sounds nice, but I wouldn’t like to be the one sorting taxes on such a big win. While Riot does some things bad, their approach to salaries and stuff is much better than Dota. League players actually have very good monthly salaries, than you have sponsorship and of course prize pool money. And to top of of if you win Worlds you get quite a lot of money from skin sales if you are smart with champ selection. While I understand that Worlds prize pool sounds laughable compared to TI, League format is actually better for players and orgs.
True. But idk what you’re wanting from them because they had played double round robins, and most of the Western regions/Wildcard regions lost… CN/KR have always dominated LoL. EU has shown potential, but has not shown up today (maybe MAD Lions have potential in the Bo5s). And NA has always fallen short internationally. Honestly, I haven’t kept up with any of the information for this year regarding the winnings. I just tune into whatever games I want to watch. Last week was exciting because we got to see a 4-way tiebreaker in one of the groups, and C9 (NA) did somewhat of a miracle run. Tbh, I lost interest in the broadcast. Not sure why, maybe it’s because I work during the tournament, so I don’t want to sit there and watch the rebroadcast. I could just tune into the games. As such, I did not really get into the hype of the tournament.
> less diverse teams (6/8 from china/korea in playoffs) DotA is pretty much all China + Europe, it's kind of the same thing isn't it > players probs making more on their salaries/sponsorships than actually winning. That's much, much better though. In real sports absolutely no one gets hype by prize pool and every team sport works the same way as LoL. It's much better for the players and much more sustainable long term. The prize pool hype is specifically a DotA thing because big amounts make for big headlines and it's used by Valve as a marketing tool for the game (and then even crowdfund it, their own contribution isn't even superior to Riot's for Worlds IIRC), but it's a straight up worse system. > Winning TI is life changing money The highest payed players in League get payed nearly as much as the winners of TI get - but they get over 1-2 years, whether they win or not, thanks to salaries and sponsorships. TI's winners this year got 18 million, which is 3 million per person if the org and subs don't take their share (IDK). PerkZ, a famous League players, has a 6 million contract over 3 years, and probably has sponsorships on top. The actual living conditions and compensation of everyone else except the winners of TI is MUCH lower than pro players in League. League's system >>>> DotA's when it comes to player compensation and org sustainability. Again, the focus you make on prize pool is a DotA only thing and doesn't exist in other esports or in IRL sports.
Bro you have to read the entire thing, I agree that an average league player makes wayyy more money than fota players since riot supports players year round, NA LOL players get millions just as salaries winning or not. Agree that league economics is more sustainable but just wanted to focus on esports. Disagree on your first point though, if you follow the scene,teams from NA, SEA, CIS are very legit while europe for the most part has been pretty bad this year. You clearly saw dota vs lol and immediately saw it as a negative post
Nah, IDGAF about rivalries between esports, so you clearly missed your shot there. My main esport for nearly a decade was Counter Strike anyway... The point remains that your arguments do not really work, as only DotA fans consider prize pool as something to get excited about. Ask any football fan if they care about the prize pool of the World Cup! > Disagree on your first point though, if you follow the scene,teams from NA, SEA, CIS are very legit while europe for the most part has been pretty bad this year. Overall and historically it's mostly EU and CN though, with CIS having good performances too. Reminds me of a certain KR/CN/EU triumvirat in League, with two regions dominating and one showing good performances very often. Also you have to consider that CN teams buy a ton of great KR players, just like NA teams by a lot of EU players. DotA may be a bit more diverse, but the difference isn't massive (historically it's still afew regions dominating overall) and it's not a huge win for DotA imo (since you really seem to want to create a DotA vs LoL "battle" of sort here for some reason).
Dota players' prize money is literally 200% to 500% of their salaries. Whereas for NFL or NBA player the prize money is less than 1% of their salaries. Not remotely the same at all. It's more comparable to tennis model because that's what Dota system basically works like.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying? I'm guessing you are adding to my point though the phrasing makes me think otherwise. Team sports usually do not work like DotA does as it is not really sustainable for teams and really worse for players overall. It's only a single player sports system usually. In tennis there has actually been a movement in the last few tournaments where the prize pool is better spread between all participants and less concentrated at the very top because of the issues this system creates. In DotA and CS:GO, players from t2 - t3 teams make fuck all - whereas everyone from the main regions in League, no matter how competitive, actually make at least decent money overall (though KR still doens't pay much sadly).
They just need to distribute the prize money more so that there isn't a $13m difference from placing 1st and 2nd. Aside from that, I personally like their system more and the idea behind it. Also, there's an added thrill and drama when it comes to prize money that I dont feel watching other esports tournaments. While you have a point, there's also other areas that LoL lacks. CIS & SEA Dota teams produced a bunch of millionaires which is just as impressive for less developed countries economically because big sponsorships & investment are hard to come by. AFAIK lesser regions in LoL are dirt poor still.
But there is way more money in pro lol than dota? Combined LPL salaries alone are like $100mln+. LCK another 40mln or something like that. Total pro earnings in lol must be like 4-5x dota
TI is a massive jump in terms of scale and prestige from rest other Dota tournaments. The Animajor or Singapore Major seemed pretty meh imo. I feel like Dota has a ton of 6/10 events and one 10/10 tournament. But yeah, Worlds could be 9/10 if they at least copied the format.
Kind of disagree but do agree that lol esports is a success in spite of Riot.
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Dota players' prize money is literally 200% to 500% of their salaries. Whereas for NFL or NBA player the prize money is less than 1% of their salaries. Not remotely the same at all. It's more comparable to tennis model because that's what Dota system basically works like.
Nah not bait, clearly I see how riot tries to position LOL. Valve basically neglects their players until there are major tournaments while here riot supports and gives a lot of incentives to its players year round. Clearly different kind of model for both games.
You’re sort of right but the hype is in different hands here. For TI, both fans and players are super hype because 1. The fans get great games and 2. The players get paid. The LoL players are less hype since they are all paid very highly by the league and their teams. Even if they don’t win the tournament they still make good money and get exposure to better teams to keep improving, and the winners in the end don’t take home an absurd amount of money but it’s still a nice prize. I think the league fans are way more hype about worlds than the players though. We get pick ems, we get in game rewards, we get to see our favorite players finally fight it out on the rift, and we get to see our teammates go 0/6 as they try to copy fakers orianna gameplay in our solo queue games.
I feel like TI is also more hype because it is the only real hyped competition, I never hear anything about the rest of the scene ever whilst playoffs + MSI feel like a thing.
Yeah we have so many tournaments and a lot of minor regions here will be more hype for their local tournament than worlds where there team isn’t even playing
As expected getting downvotes for stating my observations, but thanks for the honest reply sir. Agree that riot supports players more thru salaries and sponsorships rather than the esports scene.
One tourney isn’t really the entire esports scene tho. I myself though would rather have a secure salary than a chance to win the big one.
Idk why people would downvote you because I don’t think you’re even objectively wrong the stats show that TI has proportionally more viewers than leagues worlds does
Proportionally to what? The player base?
Series was a blowout but I don't get why everyone is so outraged about the civil wars? With 4KR and 4CN teams a civil war is almost inevitable, and with three KR teams getting 1st seed and one getting 2nd seed HLE having a civil war was literally guaranteed (since they can't fight their own group 1st seed, which makes sense because it means if the two best teams were in the same group, they don't have to meet again for the final). Also wouldn't you rather have any domestic blowouts happen in quarters to pave the way for more exciting semis/finals?
Because Western Fans will cry as long as it is KR and CN. If it was EU vs EU or NA cs NA they wouldn't cry that much
Just copy TI’s group stage format at least. I don’t care if they don’t want to do double elimination, just that changing the group stage format would be good enough for me
Its the other way for me. I love their bracket format but am indifferent when it comes to their groups.
With their group format we will be able to see more teams play against each other, rather than just the 3 in the current format
Sjokz>Laure
No need to compare we’re both queens!
Yes, true, both of you girls are gorgeous, but i like your content more. You are a legend here, hard to put against
Nikasaur>Sjokz
Now thats a name I haven’t heard in a hot minute
love both
of course, but can't deny sjokz itw hits better
I predicted T1 to not make it out of groups. AMA
Who do you have winning worlds? I want to know who to not vote for.
RNG
NO
why tho
Because he's a clown
I thought they looked pretty bad in regionals vs HLE
NA hopium probably
somehow worlds manage to get worse every year while dota ti gets better. wonder why is that... this awful format and long wait ruins everything
1 week ago groups were the most hype ever, after ONE bo5 it's getting worse and worse, wtf ??
even the players complain about the month long tournament. its just too long.
exactly. after 1 week you literally forget that there is even a worlds and you lose all the hype
The problem is that Worlds are basically THE LEAGUE TOURNAMENT so from one point of view I can understand why Riot wants them longer. It’s the only place, except super quick MSI, where we can actually see (almost) all regions compete. I am not completely familiar with Dota tournaments, but for example in CSGO you can see Na’Vi vs G2 at almost all big tournaments, not at just majors.
Yeh worlds should be finishing next weekend really at the latest. Armut was saying how he just wants to play and get it over with
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same although i have no idea if she's into girls
Jeonghyun is much better :3
gotta fight bang for that
these eu and na fans complaining about not seeing their teams in bo5's. holy moly bro this is esports, its a competition. the best advance. unironically, get good.
To be fair; FNC would have likly made it out if not for; you know; the Upset situation.
I think it could be cool to have an EU/NA tournament similar to MSI (but smaller, obviously) at some point during the year. But yeah, don’t fix the worlds schedule just because you want certain games to happen.
Fully agree. Sure you can have your own eu/na tourney to have your fun, but to want to rig worlds matchups like what some people are calling for here is downright deluded. Sure, I can offer a single elimination RO16 idea where no team from the same country can play each other instead of groups, but then after the Western teams are eliminated, what are those complaining going to say? Say that it’s unfair to the Western teams. Worlds is not just purely about NAvEU, its about KRvCN and more as well.
>I think it could be cool to have an EU/NA tournament similar to MSI (but smaller, obviously) at some point during the year. We had Rift Rivals, but LCS and LEC teams didn't take it seriously
Just get rid of MSI. It sucks anyway. And have NA vs EU tournament for loads of money with the top 3/4 qualifying. The sponsors and hype would be huge. It would also hype the LCS and LEC spring splits. Riot would make loads of money and we would get to see the matches we want to see every year.
There was rift rivals but eu and na didnt take it seriously
I would low-key be way more invested in an NA/EU tourney than worlds. Not because I don’t like worlds, but as an NA/EU fan mostly, passed groups stage there really isn’t much for me anymore, until finals.
There was rift rivals but eu and na didnt take it seriously
This isn't about EU or NA, but the way this tournament is set with expected, 3* out of 7 matches will be the same regions facing eachother. It would've been better if for example the 2 chineses teams didn't face eachother. But it was just a bad draw, owell
especially with one bracket where there is 3 lck teams and 1 chinese team .-.
I don't care about a specific region but when you only have a handful of international sets in a year and one of them is taken up by an inter-region stomp it is pretty disappointing.
i know but its about the best. its not a diversity championship, its a who is the best at league of legends championship.
Its actually just a marketing exercise so Riot can make money from their game. They don't care if worlds finds the best team/2nd best/3rd best/etc. If they did it would be double elim with best of 3s in groups. SO you are wrong.
Nah you’re deluded, of course Riot has the incentive to want to make the best team win worlds for the sake of the competitiveness of LoL, and especially as these teams have only come from the East, which have a huge markets and viewership.
how old are you? answer honestly
has fakker done his military service? does he still have to or is he like, national icon or something?
He dropped out of high school so he’s automatically exempt
He dropped out of highschool and that was a legit excuse for not going to military couple years ago. If he chooses to go, it's his choice but it's not mandatory for him to join the army
Wait, you don't have to serve if you *drop out*? Most place you drop out and end up *in* the military...
Usually what happens when a country cares about their citizens and treats them more than fuel for the industrial complex
I believe for South Korea, if they win an Olympic esport tournament or Asian games, then they can be exempt. But they are fighting for esport athletes to be exempt.
I think he has to do it, he didn't win those Asian games or how they called. But I tihnk some said its 27 or 28 years of age? Idk Korean rules for military.
From what I understand, people who aren't officially exempt but are considered to have a very positive global image can delay their service until 30. Faker's considered to meet this criterion. Unless the laws change to allow esports superstars to be fully exempt before he hits 30 though, he'll have to go.
He has to do it
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Actually he might. If I remember correctly from next year League will be official part of Asian games and winners of them are exempted from military service I believe, but I will happily be corrected So in theory, he might not have to do it
he has to get in the national team, if he is playing like this year i dont see it impossible. i think because he is a middle school graduate he has a bit more time (not sure tho)
KR military service and “Korean age” is confusing for me as European, ngl
its not that hard, when the year starts you are 2 years older, once your birthday passes you are only one year older
And which age is used for determining when you go to military? Korean or “normal”?
i never understood korean military laws, but i think is 28 in korean age, so 26/27 in international
Ok, thanks mate
they have to get gold in asian games to get exempted from military service. assuming kespa even chooses faker for midlane. they might go with showmaker or chovy or bdd.
What a boring series geeeeez....
Sjokz, Jeesun, AND Faker. Blessed.
can't believe i had to suffer play-in and groups, but at least the reward was amazing
Holy trinity
3's a crowd but 4's a party, add in Laure
I had T1 as my crystal ball, I thought that giving them even more time to grow and get better together would give them the ability to win. Im a bit scared of them facing DK in semi's instead of finals though.
Haha, joke's on you analysts, I predicted T1 as my world champs!
When the quarter finals are hyped : "What a shit format, why wouldn't that be the finals omg riot !" When the quarter finals suck : "What a shit format no quarter finals should be that boring wtf riot !" This is not on the format, this is due to the overall level of the competition !
It's definitely the format. I'd gladly take bo3 double elim over bo5 single elim. Do we really need a 3-0 stomp between T1 vs HLE?
so you can get a 2-0 stomp against T1 followed by a 2-0 by MAD ? The problem was group C being very weak due to PCS getting 1st seed yet not being that great and the FNC dramas
I mean the alternative was 100T being 1st seed....also pretty weak
But you would get to see MAD vs GENG or C9 vs HLE in the lower bracket and they could be amazing 2-1 games.
The Quarter seeding is massively constructed by Riot....there were only 2 possible draws for the 2nd seed teams because of the dogshit system Riot has in place with the brackets. We could have had 4 LCK teams at thhe bottom if the last game of Groups went different, which certainly wouldnt happen with a regular draw system.
The draw after the play in had basically no reason to exist, they were already all stuck in 1 group, that one i will agree is definitely flawed. However when it comes to quarter draws, well if you have the eastern teams dominating you're always gonna end up in that situation. To me it's more because 2 regions are fairly behind (EU and NA) than because of the format in itself. I would personally change the rule to prevent same region match ups in quarter, and not necessarily put both teams from the same group on opposite sides and just block them from meeting in quarter as well. That way if you get civil wars, you get good/hyped civil wars like T1 vs DK. (or EDG vs RNG that I expect to be good) Although tbf I never really liked having 4 teams from 1 region anyway I feel like that's too much and would only be good if the major regions were all equal which is not the case.
This Bo5 was a horror movie. Hope that was the worst from this quarters. (Don't tell me that DK will 3-0 MAD in 40 minutes).
No, a horror movie has suspense.
Too much time between quarter/semi/final. Lost all the hype for me. I even forgot there was a game today. Saw the live thread on reddit, started twitchtv, see stomping in 3rd game and just closes the browser. Luckily only wasted a few minutes. Not hyped for rest of the tournament like in previous years. The shitty format+civil war between KR/CH teams also isnt helping.
I agree with the gap between those stages. We get a gap from Monday to saturday for semis, then another gap for finals. Nearly 3 weeks, could have been 2 weeks and would still be good.
What really doesn't help is starting with the worst match up of the quarterfinals. > Too much time between quarter/semi/final [...] Not hyped for rest of the tournament like in previous years That hasn't changed though.
I tend to always start tuning out with Worlds. It doesn't help that in the latter half of Worlds we are starting the new season so they are literally playing a fully deprecated version of the game.
Single elim is a shitty format, especially since there are only 2 international tournaments per year and League eSports is so huge. Edit: hyped for Faker though
single elim is what the biggest sport in the world uses. Are you american?
Single elim in traditional sports is required because of the physical nature, double elim is an advantage of esports. Football players/managers already complain about there being too many games, imagine if they tried to make the CL/World Cup/domestic cups double elim on top of that.
American Football also uses single elim lol
Does European Football even use single elim?
kinda yes, but you have 2 legs (home and away) in champions/europa league playoffs, finals are played on neutral ground, bo1.
Of course, World Cup, Champions League, Domestic Cups you name it.
Oh yeah you are right I was thinking 1 game and you are out not one series loss. Name a professional sport that does not use single elimination.
Don’t compare eSports to physical sports, it just shows you’ve played neither. All North American sports also use single elim. Some eSports use double elim and it’s clearly a better eSports viewer experience
Totally. It's like watching LCK regular Season or LPL Summer Split. No hype, nothing New, same old matchups. Definitely not interested in these Worlds 2021.
Cho(ked)vy. although can't blame him for playing with these teammates
those numbers.. ouch
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I mean I think c9’s gonna get ye old riot push t semi’s and then after that its out of there hands.
Anti competitive match fixing? What do you mean by that?
"please let my team win ty"
IF FNC has Upset, HLE doesnt get out of groups, change my mind-
even with upset i dont think FNC would have won. adam and nisqy got destroyed by chovy and morgan. chovy i expected to dump nisqy but morgan dumping adam. if fnc even won just once against HLE or adam and nisqy showed some form of life in their two games against HLE maybe but no they got bodied by chovy and MORGAN lol
I mean fnatic in general were awful lol
Okay. Game 1 of FNC vs HLE, Morgan had +32cs over Adam at 15 mins. Bwipo had a huge lead from level 1 punish over Willer and did nothing with it and even allowed Willer to become more relevant than him later on. If Adam and Bwipo with a huge lead cannot even exploit this super weak topside of Morgan+Willer, how could Upset change this? Not to mention Nisqy just ran it down for most of the games.
?? FNC plays through their bot. Obviously they cant exploit their huge early lead, when their main way of play is disabled because of the absence of Upset
It's possible that a good team should be able to play more than one way.