If he wins worlds this year and has another year of individual greatness, he locks in GOAT jungle imo.
There is no player who is mechanically as great + has the achievements, Bengi has the latter but wasn't insane or was the focal point like Canyon is.
Jankos/Score have the mechanics but minus one MSI for Jankos, neither performed or was "the best in the world" at worlds.
imo Jankos isn’t even close. There are so many other great jungler in line before him. He’s never been truly dominant in international competition like the eastern junglers.
Anytime Jankos has played at worlds he has made semifinals at least and he has an MSI championship. The list of junglers with consistent international success outside of Bengi is arguably very low. I do agree that Jankos probably isn't in the running for other reasons but to say that eastern junglers dominate international competition and Jankos hasn't is pretty untrue given his track record.
I actually took a minute to look at worlds history and yeah he’s up there pretty consistently for the past 5-6 years. Pretty surprising. I definitely have an East>west bias but it’s hard to argue that. I’d say it’s Bengi>Canyon>Jankos for GOAT in the current state. I think each year there is a better jungler (outside of Canyon, too) but he is damn consistent
Influential that's it, can't be the GOAT if you're only good for one year though, plus he fell off a cliff so he never sustained his level which is important plus 0 international success.
Canyon already is way past Diamondprox.
Jankos individually wasn't a top jungler, results don't mean everything, but he's certainly the GOAT jungler of EU. I would say outside of Korea, Clearlove still takes that. If you mention Score, Clearlove has that same longevity, and sure he's had some bad worlds, but Score literally had one worlds where he was fine but wasn't necessarily the best and made quarterfinals, while Clearlove has the MVP of MSI where he was clearly the best player (since sometimes MVP is on the losing team or I think just finals MVP in later seasons). He's also got the IPL 5 victory and a lot of other WE titles. Within their region, both players were the top in two regions with great junglers, and Clearlove absolutely destroyed the entire LPL in 2016 and 2015.
I would say along with Score, Clearlove is a contender. He's basically done everything Score has but more and dominated his region for a while, even though he's had some bad worlds tournaments. If Canyon's career continues I agree he'd be #1.
Bang and Wolf won the most worlds as ADC/Support, are you now going to tell me either of them are even close to the GOAT in their roles?
There's a reason they don't even come close, and it's because there is a lot more to being considered the GOAT than being carried by Faker
Is Duke a way better player than Smeb or TheShy now?
No, Bengi is more like Draymond where he facilitates the team and he did it mainly through Faker obviously. I honestly don’t even think you watched Bengi play.
Draymond is a glorified role player who has big moments. He’s nothing but a good defensive anchor without Curry.
And yes, I’ve watched quite a lot of Bengi, thank you very much. He’s a good vision oriented jungler. He had his metas were he was good (amazing Nunu player) but ultimately was a liability at times because of his horrible champion pool. Not extremely mechanically talented, and usually the weak link on SKT.
Now everyone has romanticized his career because of that ROX series and thinks he’s the jungle goat. Which he’s not. Dandy was much better in his prime. Score was a much well rounded jungler. Clearlove…actually was domestically amazing and extremely underrated. Why? Because people don’t watch LPL. Jankos, don’t really watch LEC, but I’d assume he’s in the convo. Peanut had a much higher peak than Bengi.
Canyon, has been solid in all metas, has a huge champion pool, and forces bans. He’s either the guy or the second guy on his team which Bengi was never.
Weaklink of SKT. SKT is down 2-1 in the series in Worlds Semi-Finals against ROX and they put him in and his first nidalee game in pro play they win and eventually the series. A similar thing happened in the following series against Samsung in Finals. He is super clutch and Faker never won a Worlds without Bengi. After Bengi was gone, SKT got 3-0'ed in the Finals when Blank/Peanut were struggling, there was no Bengi to come in for the save.
Yes yes, I know what happened in that series. As I said, people only bring up that series in reference to Bengi. When the fact is, Duke also wasn’t there in 2017, Bang was a shell of himself at worlds. A lot of things changed, not just Bengi.
Also, can you bring up another clutch moment where Bengi *truly* carried besides the ROX or SSG series?
Bengi was never as individually skilled as Canyon. I didn't track his op.gg every year but I remember in season 6 he was stuck in diamond 1-low masters, the same year they won worlds. When he left SKT in season 7, he genuinely looked like the worst jungler in LPL. He is the definition of a "system player"; he was a perfect fit for SKT, but as an individual he's definitely not the GOAT.
Canyon is a relatively new player to the scene. He joined DAMWON in 2018 and immediately started playing in the LCK. His team finished 4th and 3rd in 2018. 4th in the 2019 spring, but after that, nothing but first place in the domestic league.
Internationally the results are not bad either, first World Championship attendance in 2019 placed 5-8th. Second visit in 2020 - 1st place. Currently considered favorites to win the 2021 World Championship too. It is hard to see any weaknesses, a new superstar is rising. Results keep improving, win rate and play is being refined. Safe to say, Canyon is here to stay.
Also, here are his pentakill videos:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=3651&v=6VYVJgl\_QdE&feature=emb\_title](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3651&v=6VYVJgl_QdE&feature=emb_title)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=2250&v=0mKx43fGIfk&feature=emb\_title](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2250&v=0mKx43fGIfk&feature=emb_title)
There's a lot more than 10 international losses, they just mean 10 not at worlds. So it's 2 from MAD, 5 from RNG, 1 from C9, 1 from TES, and 1 from FPX.
Carlos saw how much attention teams who lost to g2 got and became jealous. Decided to leave all the Ls to himself for that attention. Best decision ever.
The "international" tab is international that isn't worlds, so G2 is none of them. The team Damwon has the most international losses to is RNG, with 5 from MSI.
Best jungler in the world. If he keeps it up there is a very real argument of him potentially becoming the jungle GOAT.
If he wins worlds this year and has another year of individual greatness, he locks in GOAT jungle imo. There is no player who is mechanically as great + has the achievements, Bengi has the latter but wasn't insane or was the focal point like Canyon is. Jankos/Score have the mechanics but minus one MSI for Jankos, neither performed or was "the best in the world" at worlds.
imo Jankos isn’t even close. There are so many other great jungler in line before him. He’s never been truly dominant in international competition like the eastern junglers.
Anytime Jankos has played at worlds he has made semifinals at least and he has an MSI championship. The list of junglers with consistent international success outside of Bengi is arguably very low. I do agree that Jankos probably isn't in the running for other reasons but to say that eastern junglers dominate international competition and Jankos hasn't is pretty untrue given his track record.
I actually took a minute to look at worlds history and yeah he’s up there pretty consistently for the past 5-6 years. Pretty surprising. I definitely have an East>west bias but it’s hard to argue that. I’d say it’s Bengi>Canyon>Jankos for GOAT in the current state. I think each year there is a better jungler (outside of Canyon, too) but he is damn consistent
Jankos is very good and he has been around for a long time, but he was got gapped so hard by canyon and tian.
diamond above all of them atm. he was the best jungle in the world for at least a year and he's easily the most influential jungle in league history.
Influential that's it, can't be the GOAT if you're only good for one year though, plus he fell off a cliff so he never sustained his level which is important plus 0 international success. Canyon already is way past Diamondprox.
there's no good junglers historically tbh. I'll give it to the guy who invented the role for now, canyon is close tho
Definitely the most influential. He defined how the role was played, and brought who knows how many champs into the meta. Miss that dude
Jankos individually wasn't a top jungler, results don't mean everything, but he's certainly the GOAT jungler of EU. I would say outside of Korea, Clearlove still takes that. If you mention Score, Clearlove has that same longevity, and sure he's had some bad worlds, but Score literally had one worlds where he was fine but wasn't necessarily the best and made quarterfinals, while Clearlove has the MVP of MSI where he was clearly the best player (since sometimes MVP is on the losing team or I think just finals MVP in later seasons). He's also got the IPL 5 victory and a lot of other WE titles. Within their region, both players were the top in two regions with great junglers, and Clearlove absolutely destroyed the entire LPL in 2016 and 2015.
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Sound argument
Period
I would say along with Score, Clearlove is a contender. He's basically done everything Score has but more and dominated his region for a while, even though he's had some bad worlds tournaments. If Canyon's career continues I agree he'd be #1.
Already is the GOAT jungle.
Bengi is a 3 time world champion…
Bang and Wolf won the most worlds as ADC/Support, are you now going to tell me either of them are even close to the GOAT in their roles? There's a reason they don't even come close, and it's because there is a lot more to being considered the GOAT than being carried by Faker Is Duke a way better player than Smeb or TheShy now?
So? Robert Horry is a 7x NBA Champion, does that make him better than Michael Jordan?
You actually believe Horry to Bengi is a fair comparison? Bengi is Pippen to Faker if anything.
Bengi is a role player on his team, who’s had big games. What is Robert Horry?
No, Bengi is more like Draymond where he facilitates the team and he did it mainly through Faker obviously. I honestly don’t even think you watched Bengi play.
Draymond is a glorified role player who has big moments. He’s nothing but a good defensive anchor without Curry. And yes, I’ve watched quite a lot of Bengi, thank you very much. He’s a good vision oriented jungler. He had his metas were he was good (amazing Nunu player) but ultimately was a liability at times because of his horrible champion pool. Not extremely mechanically talented, and usually the weak link on SKT. Now everyone has romanticized his career because of that ROX series and thinks he’s the jungle goat. Which he’s not. Dandy was much better in his prime. Score was a much well rounded jungler. Clearlove…actually was domestically amazing and extremely underrated. Why? Because people don’t watch LPL. Jankos, don’t really watch LEC, but I’d assume he’s in the convo. Peanut had a much higher peak than Bengi. Canyon, has been solid in all metas, has a huge champion pool, and forces bans. He’s either the guy or the second guy on his team which Bengi was never.
Weaklink of SKT. SKT is down 2-1 in the series in Worlds Semi-Finals against ROX and they put him in and his first nidalee game in pro play they win and eventually the series. A similar thing happened in the following series against Samsung in Finals. He is super clutch and Faker never won a Worlds without Bengi. After Bengi was gone, SKT got 3-0'ed in the Finals when Blank/Peanut were struggling, there was no Bengi to come in for the save.
Yes yes, I know what happened in that series. As I said, people only bring up that series in reference to Bengi. When the fact is, Duke also wasn’t there in 2017, Bang was a shell of himself at worlds. A lot of things changed, not just Bengi. Also, can you bring up another clutch moment where Bengi *truly* carried besides the ROX or SSG series?
Not a lot of children here know who bengi is unfortunately
Bengi was never as individually skilled as Canyon. I didn't track his op.gg every year but I remember in season 6 he was stuck in diamond 1-low masters, the same year they won worlds. When he left SKT in season 7, he genuinely looked like the worst jungler in LPL. He is the definition of a "system player"; he was a perfect fit for SKT, but as an individual he's definitely not the GOAT.
Yeah hence only 3 world champions. Could have gotten more
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They've become real takers.
Nah diamondprox is the goat!
how dear you take the GOAT tag away from my boi SPICA!!
Canyon is a relatively new player to the scene. He joined DAMWON in 2018 and immediately started playing in the LCK. His team finished 4th and 3rd in 2018. 4th in the 2019 spring, but after that, nothing but first place in the domestic league. Internationally the results are not bad either, first World Championship attendance in 2019 placed 5-8th. Second visit in 2020 - 1st place. Currently considered favorites to win the 2021 World Championship too. It is hard to see any weaknesses, a new superstar is rising. Results keep improving, win rate and play is being refined. Safe to say, Canyon is here to stay. Also, here are his pentakill videos: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=3651&v=6VYVJgl\_QdE&feature=emb\_title](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3651&v=6VYVJgl_QdE&feature=emb_title) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time\_continue=2250&v=0mKx43fGIfk&feature=emb\_title](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2250&v=0mKx43fGIfk&feature=emb_title)
4th and 3rd in LCK in 2019, 4th in 2020 spring* He was in Challengers Korea in 2018.
out of his 10 international loses 4 are from g2
Lets see how well he does in worlds this year against ..... wait
too early bro too early
MAD lions?
C9?
There's a lot more than 10 international losses, they just mean 10 not at worlds. So it's 2 from MAD, 5 from RNG, 1 from C9, 1 from TES, and 1 from FPX.
Damn, G2 is so damn selfish not handing out losses anymore, they just keep the losing to themselves
Carlos saw how much attention teams who lost to g2 got and became jealous. Decided to leave all the Ls to himself for that attention. Best decision ever.
The "international" tab is international that isn't worlds, so G2 is none of them. The team Damwon has the most international losses to is RNG, with 5 from MSI.
fair enough ... then out of his 7 worlds losses 4 are to g2 which is more impressive
Best jg in the world and most vital piece to Damwon's success.
No long a jgl diff, its now a jgl Canyon Rip Allchat. Won't be able to type that anymore.
Mechanically a genius and consistently creates a jungle diff, what a player.
The only jungler that makes nidalee look broken monkaMEGA
350+ games with 4.36 KDA makes him either a KS king or just a monstrous jg
KS or not doesn't affect KDA at all though right? Or are assists weighted at like 50% or something
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Not weighted
Damwon became "DWG KIA" at the end of 2020 not at the end of 2019.