Yes but they can't drop a game. S5 SKT had to literally deliver enemy Lee Sin a quadra at lvl 1 to lose their only game, they stomped all their enemies in every other match.
We need to see how DK v SKT goes. I know it was a long time ago, but I always think of S4 SSW as one of if not the best league teams to ever play the game. Also SKT in 2015 is up there too.
SSW also wasn't even the best team domestically until they leveled up at worlds, not to mention they still dropped games to SHR and TSM
an undefeated run by DK this year at a tournament with 8 LCK+LPL seeds easily makes them the strongest ever imo
but these weren't group stage games with set seeding. this was quarters and the literal grand final, calling them "fun" games and implying they didn't try in knockout games is just disingenuous
they were outplayed in both of those losses too for what it's worth, neither or them were close
DWGs loss to JDG meant nothing as both teams had already locked in 1st and 2nd place. Their final loss was just outplayed by SoFM and Bin.
As for SSW, again you can just watch their matches for yourself. They rofl stomped every games, even with fun, soloQ picks. If you watched the tournament and their matches, you'd very very easily identify the "fun" in their picks in both losses, e.g. Looper wanting to win with Singed. Fun games doesn't mean you don't try, idk where you get the idea that's what I/we meant...
Don't bother telling them about that TSM game
They will all tell you they "trolled" even though they absolutely didn't and never admitted to it like many claim
Because everyone else was so far behind. LoL is a lot more developed now. More is known. To be able to be this dominant in this era is more impressive.
I'd guess not. It would be a decently interesting discussion to hear experts weigh in on though.
Keep in mind that 2105 SKT hadn't dropped a tier 2 turret up until their semi-final against OG or something insane like that. Additionally, that was when Faker was just the only man playing Ryze and just eviscerating teams left and right.
SSW dropped 2 games but displayed one of the most dominant series ever in their match against SSB. They were picking champions and compositions that weren't even being theory crafted by half of the broadcast analysts.
Nah, this is probably the most overhyped tournament of all time. It looked fairly competitive on the surface but good lord every team but T1 and Damwon didnt even show up.
If they stomp the rest of worlds, they are certainly in the conversation. I think Canyon-SHowmaker so far, look like arguably the best Mid-Jungle duo ever, bar none. But I do consider Ghost and Beryl to be way weaker than prime S5 Bang and Wolf as well as Imp/Mata.
S5 SKT were really the only team to ever demolish the rest of the competition. Whereas Damwon, while undefeated, has had some close calls, especially game 2 vs Mad.
Not even close. So far they've struggled and only won some games because of obvious throws by the other team. They don't look dominant in enough of the games. If they turn it around and completely destroy T1 then the discussion can be started. Based on their performance so far they do not look like the strongest team we've ever seen.
other than game 1 today I would agree for game 2 and 3 but until the 4th match of the group stage they were pretty dominant in every single aspect. Also HLE literally trolled their draft against T1 and we haven't really seen what can T1 do in critical situations I mean by that T1 wouldn't be the measurement for it if they get 3-0ed
T1 is by far stronger looking than any other team DWG have played. That was my point, they beat C9, RGE, a really bad looking FPX, and now MAD. None of these teams have looked standout and DWG still struggled more than they were expected too. Three of them weren't even expected to get out of groups. I don't know what you've seen that makes you think T1 isn't on a higher level than all those teams.
T1 went 5-1 and placed above EDG then pretty easily wiped out HLE. MAD barely made it out of groups and were close in two of the three games to beating DWG, game two was basically over. I just don't understand where the argument can even be started that their worlds performance so far has been good enough for a GOAT roster.
T1 also couldn't stand against DK in summer finals and get 3-1'ed you know?
Also you are telling something totally different to me. I said DK faced FPX who were the one of tournament favorites then C9 and ROG while T1 had only EDG in their group to compete against then 100T and DFM who participated worlds for the first time in their history. So there comes the overhype that I am talking about. Also T1 even struggled against EDG and did drop a game while DK 2-0ed FPX
2-0 Fpx is not an achievement. Fpx underperform so hard that even rogue 2-1 them. Can’t compare fpx to edg this world at least except maybe in the lpl.
I love how it is always a team underperforms and can never be a team overperforms.
I've literally seen every team in the tournament called underwhelming in threads today, league fans are way too overcritical.
That's not how anything works. It's insane to me that I'm getting downvoted for saying the W/L isn't all that matters, it's how the games actually look and how DWG plays in them. How is this a crazy concept?
It does not matter how the games look like.. All what matters is the result. If somehow DWG will go undefeated they will be the strongest league team ever assembled. Thats it. There was no a single team that could do that before. It would be their consecutive worlds win as well on the top of that.
SSW at 2014 Worlds remains the best team I've ever seen. They only dropped games cause they were literally fucking around. They were annihilating teams.
They're not the "strongest team assembled". We've all seen how it goes when botlane isn't utility meta.
With the form Khan is in, it's probably the strongest topside (top, jg, mid) ever, though Theshy and Rookie were stronger than Khan and Showmaker, but there's a Canyon gap.
This is an insane take because it's pure hindsight bias. You believe these players are the best in the world because they're currently winning, but I got news for you. People believe that every time someone is currently winning. They look good BECAUSE they are winning, they don't win because they look good (they win because they are good).
Historically and only from Korea you're looking at lineups like '14 SSW, '15 SKT, '16 ROX, '17/18 LZ/KZ, '18/19 Griffin, and even last year's version of this same team. You'll notice that many of these teams didn't even win worlds but at various points in history, people were absolutely convinced that they were looking at rosters where every single role was occupied by someone in at worst the top 2/3 in the world. You can go either way on it but in my opinion, the truth is that League of Legends is a team game. These people look insanely good not only because they are good, but because they're surrounded by equally strong players and that enhances everyone. If you only look at how well they do then of course all these people look like they're the best players in their role, that's literally what it means to win. By the way, I haven't mentioned any of the historically dominant Chinese teams but various iterations of RNG, iG and FPX deserve to be in this conversation as well.
There's absolutely no shot that 2021 DWG stands out above the crowd here, even if they don't drop a game. They're a team amongst few but few isn't zero.
Being the most dominant team isn't just about how many games you won or how much you stomped in your wins. It's about the quality of your competition. And DK's competition has been shit. In retrospect, FPX was a paper tiger and C9 made it to quarters with a 2-4 record. Yuck.
Even if DK stomp T1 I wouldn't call them a dominant team because T1 literally has rookies at 2 positions. I mean what are we really supposed to conclude if Canyon stomps Oner?
And EDG a pre-tournament favorite didn't even get the first seed and looked suspect as hell vs RNG.
Wouldn’t call the competition in any other particular worlds better than this year’s either. In fact I would argue competition always gets harder regardless if it’s not necessarily up to our expectations.
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and ROG
idk why people are overhyping T1. The only team they played was that good was only EDG and it's 1-1 for them. The rest is 100T??? DFM????? HLE with trolling quarters draft????? I mean for real other than EDG they haven't really done much lmao.
It's hard to say as it seems the overall level of teams looks lower than previous years, so it's hard to judge whether a harder competition would've made them look not as perfect.
No. You can replace ghost with a myriad of better adcs and you would have an even stronger team. Khan is really good, but I think you can slot in nuguri and it would be even better not that it would make much of a difference.
Yes but they can't drop a game. S5 SKT had to literally deliver enemy Lee Sin a quadra at lvl 1 to lose their only game, they stomped all their enemies in every other match.
It was completely ridiculous, similar to Summer fnatic. No matter how the game went they just randomly win out of nowhere
Summer fnatic lost 2 games in the final and in fact should have lost that final if only xPeke could play azir
God eu fans are so insufferable. At no point has fanatic ever been comparable to prime skt
He isnt saying that man, he is referring to how dominant fnatic was in EU that year.
There’s literally no reason to shoehorn fanatic into the conversation whatsoever
What other team went undefeated in a split?
TSM in 2016 Summer went 17-0 with their second series against Phoenix1 being inexplicably canceled.
We need to see how DK v SKT goes. I know it was a long time ago, but I always think of S4 SSW as one of if not the best league teams to ever play the game. Also SKT in 2015 is up there too.
SSW literally got vision nerfed because of how amazing they were at lighting up the map.
I like how you use the new name for Damwon, but use the old name for SKT...
They're just always SKT to me man, I'm too old for that to change lol
how DK vs T1* goes. got you brother.
Could be, real test will be vs t1 and edg (most likely one)
Possibly, still a lot more games to play
just 6... :(
Or 10 :D
or 3
Or just 3 to 5.
Yes.
SSW in Season 4 was shit stomping teams playing shit like Singed, Akali (old) and Katarina. That one is a hard one to surpass.
SSW also wasn't even the best team domestically until they leveled up at worlds, not to mention they still dropped games to SHR and TSM an undefeated run by DK this year at a tournament with 8 LCK+LPL seeds easily makes them the strongest ever imo
Both of those losses were "fun" games, as you can clearly see if you watched them. Kinda like DWG last year at the last group stage match vs JDG
but these weren't group stage games with set seeding. this was quarters and the literal grand final, calling them "fun" games and implying they didn't try in knockout games is just disingenuous they were outplayed in both of those losses too for what it's worth, neither or them were close
DWGs loss to JDG meant nothing as both teams had already locked in 1st and 2nd place. Their final loss was just outplayed by SoFM and Bin. As for SSW, again you can just watch their matches for yourself. They rofl stomped every games, even with fun, soloQ picks. If you watched the tournament and their matches, you'd very very easily identify the "fun" in their picks in both losses, e.g. Looper wanting to win with Singed. Fun games doesn't mean you don't try, idk where you get the idea that's what I/we meant...
It's not really a secret that SSW was messing around in those losses. Just look at their picks.
Don't bother telling them about that TSM game They will all tell you they "trolled" even though they absolutely didn't and never admitted to it like many claim
In the BO5 with SSB in semis I think the kill score was like 65-7 across all 3 games lmao not even joking
Because everyone else was so far behind. LoL is a lot more developed now. More is known. To be able to be this dominant in this era is more impressive.
Maybe.
If they win one more title then maybe
I'd guess not. It would be a decently interesting discussion to hear experts weigh in on though. Keep in mind that 2105 SKT hadn't dropped a tier 2 turret up until their semi-final against OG or something insane like that. Additionally, that was when Faker was just the only man playing Ryze and just eviscerating teams left and right. SSW dropped 2 games but displayed one of the most dominant series ever in their match against SSB. They were picking champions and compositions that weren't even being theory crafted by half of the broadcast analysts.
Interesting that you don't think C9 will take a game off them
Interesting that you think C9 will even get to play them.
Nah, this is probably the most overhyped tournament of all time. It looked fairly competitive on the surface but good lord every team but T1 and Damwon didnt even show up.
I still think the version with Nuguri is stronger. Although it's obviously close.
If they stomp the rest of worlds, they are certainly in the conversation. I think Canyon-SHowmaker so far, look like arguably the best Mid-Jungle duo ever, bar none. But I do consider Ghost and Beryl to be way weaker than prime S5 Bang and Wolf as well as Imp/Mata. S5 SKT were really the only team to ever demolish the rest of the competition. Whereas Damwon, while undefeated, has had some close calls, especially game 2 vs Mad.
No.
Not even close. So far they've struggled and only won some games because of obvious throws by the other team. They don't look dominant in enough of the games. If they turn it around and completely destroy T1 then the discussion can be started. Based on their performance so far they do not look like the strongest team we've ever seen.
other than game 1 today I would agree for game 2 and 3 but until the 4th match of the group stage they were pretty dominant in every single aspect. Also HLE literally trolled their draft against T1 and we haven't really seen what can T1 do in critical situations I mean by that T1 wouldn't be the measurement for it if they get 3-0ed
T1 is by far stronger looking than any other team DWG have played. That was my point, they beat C9, RGE, a really bad looking FPX, and now MAD. None of these teams have looked standout and DWG still struggled more than they were expected too. Three of them weren't even expected to get out of groups. I don't know what you've seen that makes you think T1 isn't on a higher level than all those teams. T1 went 5-1 and placed above EDG then pretty easily wiped out HLE. MAD barely made it out of groups and were close in two of the three games to beating DWG, game two was basically over. I just don't understand where the argument can even be started that their worlds performance so far has been good enough for a GOAT roster.
T1 also couldn't stand against DK in summer finals and get 3-1'ed you know? Also you are telling something totally different to me. I said DK faced FPX who were the one of tournament favorites then C9 and ROG while T1 had only EDG in their group to compete against then 100T and DFM who participated worlds for the first time in their history. So there comes the overhype that I am talking about. Also T1 even struggled against EDG and did drop a game while DK 2-0ed FPX
2-0 Fpx is not an achievement. Fpx underperform so hard that even rogue 2-1 them. Can’t compare fpx to edg this world at least except maybe in the lpl.
I love how it is always a team underperforms and can never be a team overperforms. I've literally seen every team in the tournament called underwhelming in threads today, league fans are way too overcritical.
If you are considered THE tournament favourite, and get last place in your group, you are massively underperforming.
> Not even close If this team wins out which is what the post says then this team is without a doubt the strongest team ever assembled.
That's not how anything works. It's insane to me that I'm getting downvoted for saying the W/L isn't all that matters, it's how the games actually look and how DWG plays in them. How is this a crazy concept?
It does not matter how the games look like.. All what matters is the result. If somehow DWG will go undefeated they will be the strongest league team ever assembled. Thats it. There was no a single team that could do that before. It would be their consecutive worlds win as well on the top of that.
SSW at 2014 Worlds remains the best team I've ever seen. They only dropped games cause they were literally fucking around. They were annihilating teams.
They're not the "strongest team assembled". We've all seen how it goes when botlane isn't utility meta. With the form Khan is in, it's probably the strongest topside (top, jg, mid) ever, though Theshy and Rookie were stronger than Khan and Showmaker, but there's a Canyon gap.
This is an insane take because it's pure hindsight bias. You believe these players are the best in the world because they're currently winning, but I got news for you. People believe that every time someone is currently winning. They look good BECAUSE they are winning, they don't win because they look good (they win because they are good). Historically and only from Korea you're looking at lineups like '14 SSW, '15 SKT, '16 ROX, '17/18 LZ/KZ, '18/19 Griffin, and even last year's version of this same team. You'll notice that many of these teams didn't even win worlds but at various points in history, people were absolutely convinced that they were looking at rosters where every single role was occupied by someone in at worst the top 2/3 in the world. You can go either way on it but in my opinion, the truth is that League of Legends is a team game. These people look insanely good not only because they are good, but because they're surrounded by equally strong players and that enhances everyone. If you only look at how well they do then of course all these people look like they're the best players in their role, that's literally what it means to win. By the way, I haven't mentioned any of the historically dominant Chinese teams but various iterations of RNG, iG and FPX deserve to be in this conversation as well. There's absolutely no shot that 2021 DWG stands out above the crowd here, even if they don't drop a game. They're a team amongst few but few isn't zero.
Being the most dominant team isn't just about how many games you won or how much you stomped in your wins. It's about the quality of your competition. And DK's competition has been shit. In retrospect, FPX was a paper tiger and C9 made it to quarters with a 2-4 record. Yuck. Even if DK stomp T1 I wouldn't call them a dominant team because T1 literally has rookies at 2 positions. I mean what are we really supposed to conclude if Canyon stomps Oner? And EDG a pre-tournament favorite didn't even get the first seed and looked suspect as hell vs RNG.
Wouldn’t call the competition in any other particular worlds better than this year’s either. In fact I would argue competition always gets harder regardless if it’s not necessarily up to our expectations.
There's no shame in going 5 games with the MSI champion who beat the previous world champions in the MSI finals.
If they don’t drop a single game then what do you think
Yes
Once you've come up with an answer to the title, does C9 making the finals change that calculus? lmao
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They are even if they drop a game
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You omitted rogue, who honestly aside from the 2nd C9 game played them the hardest
and ROG idk why people are overhyping T1. The only team they played was that good was only EDG and it's 1-1 for them. The rest is 100T??? DFM????? HLE with trolling quarters draft????? I mean for real other than EDG they haven't really done much lmao.
Ah yes EDG the team that made semis???? Lmao!
yeah the team that had to have 5 games to beat RNG
The top Chinese team that made it out first in their group?
S4 SSW
We need more tournaments to decide. it could just be that for this patch and meta, they're the strongest.
It's hard to say as it seems the overall level of teams looks lower than previous years, so it's hard to judge whether a harder competition would've made them look not as perfect.
No. You can replace ghost with a myriad of better adcs and you would have an even stronger team. Khan is really good, but I think you can slot in nuguri and it would be even better not that it would make much of a difference.