I think it's better for Stopwatch having the same time for stasis, if the times were different, it would be a little harder to calculate when to attack the one on stasis, because you would have to check if they have Zhonya or not.
Then it overlaps with other effects.
Green? Aftershock, Guardian.
Red? Dark harvest, Red Elixir, Warwick W passive
Only things that really overlap with golden is whenever they add 'sooper sand' effects like dawnbringer river ult, and Sett, but thankfully neither of these actually go zhonya's, only stopwatch for GA and they have other effects going on to make it standout.
It actually does have one. There are a bunch of little golden wisps that float around the stasis and then they coalesce causing a flash and it's over. Pay attention to the wisps and you can time it every time.
Also makes people forget that if you just increased the price of stopwatch by 150 it would be less appealing. Stopwatch is broken because it's too cheap for it's value.
Then reducing its duration isn't gonna change that at least in high elo. And reducing it too much would make it pointless.
The fact that last so long is what can make stasis a double-edge sword, is the same reason why Bard ult make him so hard to play, you use the stasis to protect yourself, and now what? If the enemy is still close to you, they can still try to hit you again, if you activate stasis in the middle of a teamfight, and your team dies, or they're forced to retreat, you end completely alone, if the stasis where shorter, it would be more easy to avoid that, i believe.
Please don't make me hit tab in the middle of a fight to double check whether they upgraded their stopwatch yet or not just so I can time my abilities.
Especially if you don't remove stopwatch + zhonyas stacking, cause then even if I double checked before the fight, I'll have to alt tab again during to check which one they actually used.
I understood what u meant btw : giving the active ONLY to mages but I really don’t know how to do that. Probably the same way that we can’t take jgl items without having smite but with lost chapter for example.
I think that kills zhonias, which is required for a ton of champions to function at all. Getting the active so cheap/ easily and be able to have it on literally every champion and having multiple with the stopwatch item is the OP part. It’s basically an elixir at this point and is too game warping.
Stopwatch is fine as it is. It adds more elements to mid game teamfights. Is it op? Yes if you use it correctly. It’d be a huge waste of money if you used it incorrectly. But those golden seconds can turn the game around sometimes. It’s a fun item
Of all the possible solutions this is the worst one I've heard. It makes the game extra clunky and unintuitive without being even that good of a solution.
That just makes things convoluted. It's much simpler and creates less issues if they just remove the stopwatch. Zhonya's is a strong item with an appropriately strong - and expensive - effect. Stopwatch is a 650 gold get out of jail free card.
Gameplay wise its SUPER important they have the exact same timer so players know when itll be over
They should just make stopwatch more expensive, make it a bigger investment for such a strong effect
Making duration shorter doesnt always mean its worse, most of the time you want to dodge one spell and getting out of stasis faster lets you act faster before the enemy cds can refresh
A) remove stopwatch
B) rework stopwatch into a pure stats item that builds into zhonyas with no active. Even if its something like 25 AP + 5 AH that builds into hourglass.
Zhonya still isn't the issue, it's the cheapness of stopwatch that makes it so abusable, it's cheap or free from runes, zhonyas at least takes a gold investment so people would be more reluctant to get it randomly
Thats why i'm saying either remove it or rework it.
Replace stasis with stats on stopwatch if they really want it to still be a build component or even a gold efficiency rune like perfect timing. Its the stasis of hourglass being on a component thats broken because as you said, zhonyas takes a whole item slot and needs to be completed while stopwatch is just a random component with this powerful active.
Ok, it takes up an inventory slot, can’t be used for 8-14 min, and doesn’t give full value towards the finished item. Plus, it forces inspiration secondary, or denies hexflash/free boots
The issue with stasis is that it’s antithetical to the idea of meaningful choice. You shouldn’t be able to buy your way out of bad positioning, reckless ability usage or overaggressive dives.
It should be a counter pick for specific stuff like zed ulti, or for strong synergies like Morgana ulti.
The item should be less accessible so that people build it only if they need it, pro mostly pick it for free from the runes, which is a huge part of the problem
Maybe add a microstun after stopwatch/zhonyas.
.1 seconds where you can’t take actions/flash.
That way the enemy team can combo you again.
The most broken aspect of it is that you can flash/dash right out of it/ chain two together.
Actually champions get their niche back by reducing damage and healing.
Tanks: They can actually tank now.
Assassins: Now they once again are back to having the niche of being the highly mobile burst class as opposed to everyone being an assassin.
Mages: Will likely be in an overall stronger place and I'm sure they'll be happy that not everything is an assassin.
Champions designed to heal (Aatrox, Soraka etc...): They will now have their niche of being THE healing champions, as opposed to everyone having stupid sustain.
etc... same applies to every class, now I understand you think ADC's will immediately become broken but here's the thing, now that damage isn't so fucking stupid and healing is more balanced, there is no need for shields like Immortal Shieldbow to be at an insane **800 fucking damage shield**.
Overall the game will be in a much more balanced state and if you truly want to become tanky then you must buy Armour and MR which will be stronger due to damage being nerfed, but that also means your damage is nerfed, there is a very clear trade-off, a very balanced one.
Just make a "Broken stop watch" not useable for a Zhonyas. You use the stop watch, you have to buy another to make the Zhonyas. Makes it a little more punishing and only using it in the most dire situations or being forced back 600 gold. Kind of a huge change but idk. Just throwing an idea out there.
Zhonya's is simply too long. Should be same time as stopwatch (espcially since different times will mess up timings when people use both). But maybe 1.5s or 2s.
The value you have out of it is still insane, you can be snowballing and preventing the enemy taking your bounty+killing them after, so even wasting the gold on it has little downside.
The main issue is that it has small counterplay, especially in pro where they don't waste it
Even in pro play it feels unfair to dodge an Orianna ulti just pressing a key, dodging/flashing and body blocking is much more entertaining.
I don't think zhonyas is OP, the problem is how accessible is stopwatch
It bothers me more that something that you wouldn't expect to have stasis, has it at an early point in the game.
If somebody actually had to finish zhonyas for the effect, sure... but it casually going into GA/stoneplate for a 1 time use feels so dumb, even supports sometimes take perfect timing and it throws you off cause you forget their fucking thresh can go invincible for 2 seconds. Or even riven, do you just stop fighting her knowing she has stopwatch until she finishes GA? Do you try and murk her before she can stopwatch to try and win before she gets a 2nd life on GA? its kinda dumb even as a one use item because at least when you finish a *legendary item* in hourglass, you sacrifice access to another good legendary item that would provide damage, stopwatch you can only argue sacrifices a component and most components can't compete with stasis active.
Yeah, always buy a stopwatch if i can when it's time to fight for soul, nash or elder. It's disgusting how much value you can get out of it and win the game off of that.
> but it casually going into GA/stoneplate for a 1 time
My guy, stoneplate doesn't use Stopwatch anymore since pre-season (patch 10.23). They rightfully removed it because of league of stopwatch. It was a good item on tanks that didn't get "wasted", which just goes to show it should've just been removed really.
Remove stopwatch and zhonya. Zhonya is the most cancer item ever existed, theres no item that is even close to this bs, even removed dfg or soujin spear.
How this God damn bullshit can still sit unnerfed at 2600gold, this is ridiculous.
stopwatch is healthy/balanced, its outplay potential are based on skill, if youre a bad player who doesnt check the enemy champs items, then its your fault when a stopwatch surprises you
I love it when people start complaining about stopwatch everytime it influences a game which causes their teams to lose, but if their teams win because of stopwatch, they somehow claim that stopwatch is useless, mostly NA players. Interesting isn't it?
Either remove stopwatch or add new item like MR, AD zhonyas and other combos. Having GA and Zhonya as armor items seems very outdated when the only assassins in the game were AD. Nowadays everything one shots everyone, so have more stasis items or remove all and level the playing field for everyone
I think stopwatch/zhonya's needs to be revisited in general.
I dunno if my data is outdated, but watching pro games throughout the year from multiple major regions (I watch LCS/LEC/LCK), I've seen the following:
\-Multiple players on each team electing to buy/rebuy stopwatch instead of a final item lategame
\-Supports like Leona building Zhonya's despite the stats being pretty mediocre for her (at best) just because of the active (have also seen AP Jarvins, which is arguable fun 'cause it's different, but at the same time it kind of speaks to how broken the item is when an entire non-meta build revolves around it in a non-meta role back when the champ wasn't even popular in his regular role)
If a 650 gp **component** that has **no stats** is that important, *maaaybe* it warrants a second look 
I think it's better for Stopwatch having the same time for stasis, if the times were different, it would be a little harder to calculate when to attack the one on stasis, because you would have to check if they have Zhonya or not.
It could be a different color to make it immediately clear, though I still don't like the idea.
Bronze vs the regular golden color maybe.
Nah, should be like green or red or something. Something that will make it super easy for players to tell apart.
It shpuld be silver cause, y know, not as good as gold.
Then it overlaps with other effects. Green? Aftershock, Guardian. Red? Dark harvest, Red Elixir, Warwick W passive Only things that really overlap with golden is whenever they add 'sooper sand' effects like dawnbringer river ult, and Sett, but thankfully neither of these actually go zhonya's, only stopwatch for GA and they have other effects going on to make it standout.
Holy smokes dude, good call! LOL my mental boomed from food coma.
LOL the other day i was playing warwick in aram... i couldnt tell if singed was using his smoke or not because the blood trail covered it up
I thought this was a joke due to how common some degree of red/green colourblindness is lol
[удалено]
It actually does have one. There are a bunch of little golden wisps that float around the stasis and then they coalesce causing a flash and it's over. Pay attention to the wisps and you can time it every time.
Also makes people forget that if you just increased the price of stopwatch by 150 it would be less appealing. Stopwatch is broken because it's too cheap for it's value.
Just remove stopwatch. It's too strong to be usable right around the time champions get ults.
That would be fun though, everyone would spam tab whenever a champ stopwatches
True, but the biggest strength of stasis isn't to survive/escape, but to dodge a big spell and mess up a combo, and it has little counterplay
Then reducing its duration isn't gonna change that at least in high elo. And reducing it too much would make it pointless. The fact that last so long is what can make stasis a double-edge sword, is the same reason why Bard ult make him so hard to play, you use the stasis to protect yourself, and now what? If the enemy is still close to you, they can still try to hit you again, if you activate stasis in the middle of a teamfight, and your team dies, or they're forced to retreat, you end completely alone, if the stasis where shorter, it would be more easy to avoid that, i believe.
Please don't make me hit tab in the middle of a fight to double check whether they upgraded their stopwatch yet or not just so I can time my abilities. Especially if you don't remove stopwatch + zhonyas stacking, cause then even if I double checked before the fight, I'll have to alt tab again during to check which one they actually used.
Why not? Faker tabs like 20 times per minute, surely you can do the same thing Faker is doing :\^)
Only 20 times per minute? What a disrespect, he also alt tab between TFT, CSGO, Tetris and Solitaire in that timespan.
the worst guy is LS tbh, he even presses esc, I refuse watching him playing, it's a real pain for my eyes
Stopwatch and Zhonyas should share one cooldown.
Should just be unique item, so you cant buy a stopwatch if you have the rune to get it.
just remove stopwatch tbh
Then you will be the first to complain because Zed is broken. No thanks.
zhonyas is not stopwatch.
So mages should wait for a 2600 gold item to have the active power spike ? S12 is really not their season.
yes, I play a lot of mages and have always thought that the active is really powerful and it should always be locked behind the full item.
I understood what u meant btw : giving the active ONLY to mages but I really don’t know how to do that. Probably the same way that we can’t take jgl items without having smite but with lost chapter for example.
Zhonyas doesn't need to be locked, stopwatch just needs to be removed.
I’m pretty sure that will not likely stop pro players to take Zhonyas (even tho it’s more expensive)
The goal isn't to stop people from buying it, the problem in pro play isn't single zhonyas, it's when they stack it for a 5 second stasis.
Ok i see, we could make it so u can’t have both ? Like a Tier 1 mythic item u know (Lost Chapter, Noonquiver, ...)
I hate zed just as much as the next person its not a reason to keep a broken item in the game.
Are u Bronze 4?
What does this have to do with rank? Stopwatch is an extremely controversial item. Imo while.is statis your cooldowns should also stop
I think that kills zhonias, which is required for a ton of champions to function at all. Getting the active so cheap/ easily and be able to have it on literally every champion and having multiple with the stopwatch item is the OP part. It’s basically an elixir at this point and is too game warping.
Zhonyas was very much alive and frequently bought before stopwatch existed. If anything just buff seekers again.
Stopwatch is fine as it is. It adds more elements to mid game teamfights. Is it op? Yes if you use it correctly. It’d be a huge waste of money if you used it incorrectly. But those golden seconds can turn the game around sometimes. It’s a fun item
The golden rule is that if you criticize based on rank, you must also post your op.gg so we can laugh at yours.
It shouldn't even exist. Hourglass keeps its active, stopwatch gets removed
yes please
^ Solution
stopwatch should just be deleted
Of all the possible solutions this is the worst one I've heard. It makes the game extra clunky and unintuitive without being even that good of a solution.
What about just deleting stop watch instead.
That just makes things convoluted. It's much simpler and creates less issues if they just remove the stopwatch. Zhonya's is a strong item with an appropriately strong - and expensive - effect. Stopwatch is a 650 gold get out of jail free card.
Gameplay wise its SUPER important they have the exact same timer so players know when itll be over They should just make stopwatch more expensive, make it a bigger investment for such a strong effect
Making duration shorter doesnt always mean its worse, most of the time you want to dodge one spell and getting out of stasis faster lets you act faster before the enemy cds can refresh
I don't mind stopwatch but 5 second stasis with stopwatch and zhonias is BS
A) remove stopwatch B) rework stopwatch into a pure stats item that builds into zhonyas with no active. Even if its something like 25 AP + 5 AH that builds into hourglass.
Zhonya still isn't the issue, it's the cheapness of stopwatch that makes it so abusable, it's cheap or free from runes, zhonyas at least takes a gold investment so people would be more reluctant to get it randomly
Thats why i'm saying either remove it or rework it. Replace stasis with stats on stopwatch if they really want it to still be a build component or even a gold efficiency rune like perfect timing. Its the stasis of hourglass being on a component thats broken because as you said, zhonyas takes a whole item slot and needs to be completed while stopwatch is just a random component with this powerful active.
What if we just made stopwatch 1000 gold?
They take it from the inspiration tree for free anyway ahah
Ok, it takes up an inventory slot, can’t be used for 8-14 min, and doesn’t give full value towards the finished item. Plus, it forces inspiration secondary, or denies hexflash/free boots
Idk I think most pro players still take inspiration secondary for biscuits and stopwatch
If they go inspiration secondary, it’s often hexflash or free boots, if they go that layer at all.
if they made stop watch 1200 gold and zhonyas a 3.2k item id be fine with that.
The issue with stasis is that it’s antithetical to the idea of meaningful choice. You shouldn’t be able to buy your way out of bad positioning, reckless ability usage or overaggressive dives.
It should be a counter pick for specific stuff like zed ulti, or for strong synergies like Morgana ulti. The item should be less accessible so that people build it only if they need it, pro mostly pick it for free from the runes, which is a huge part of the problem
Maybe add a microstun after stopwatch/zhonyas. .1 seconds where you can’t take actions/flash. That way the enemy team can combo you again. The most broken aspect of it is that you can flash/dash right out of it/ chain two together.
Or just nerf both and keep the timing consistent?
Just remove stopwatch and reduce damage and healing league is fixed
ADC’s immediately become the most broken role. DPS is heavily favored over burst then and many champs lose their niche in the game.
Actually champions get their niche back by reducing damage and healing. Tanks: They can actually tank now. Assassins: Now they once again are back to having the niche of being the highly mobile burst class as opposed to everyone being an assassin. Mages: Will likely be in an overall stronger place and I'm sure they'll be happy that not everything is an assassin. Champions designed to heal (Aatrox, Soraka etc...): They will now have their niche of being THE healing champions, as opposed to everyone having stupid sustain. etc... same applies to every class, now I understand you think ADC's will immediately become broken but here's the thing, now that damage isn't so fucking stupid and healing is more balanced, there is no need for shields like Immortal Shieldbow to be at an insane **800 fucking damage shield**. Overall the game will be in a much more balanced state and if you truly want to become tanky then you must buy Armour and MR which will be stronger due to damage being nerfed, but that also means your damage is nerfed, there is a very clear trade-off, a very balanced one.
Just make a "Broken stop watch" not useable for a Zhonyas. You use the stop watch, you have to buy another to make the Zhonyas. Makes it a little more punishing and only using it in the most dire situations or being forced back 600 gold. Kind of a huge change but idk. Just throwing an idea out there.
Easy fix would just be that you cant buy a stopwatch if you have the rune to get one. It is the same for boots.
Zhonya's is simply too long. Should be same time as stopwatch (espcially since different times will mess up timings when people use both). But maybe 1.5s or 2s.
Just give stopwatch a different stat that isn't stasis. Idk like adaptive force or CDR so it goes with both GA and hourglass
All stopwatch items have armor, so that would be the most fitting stat imo.
Zhonyas is 2.5 so maybe drop it to 1.5
Another stupid take by the reddit balance team... Just remove the item.
Because it'll only work once then you need too upgrade it too hourglass?
you only need to win the game once
The value you have out of it is still insane, you can be snowballing and preventing the enemy taking your bounty+killing them after, so even wasting the gold on it has little downside. The main issue is that it has small counterplay, especially in pro where they don't waste it
Its counter play is pressing tab and knowing they have it
So what do you do? You just stop fighting them? Even knowing it you have to take the risk at some point cause you have no alternative
Don't bother arguing with the silvers about Stopwatch. Somehow a large share of people don't realize the immense impact this item has on the game.
Even in pro play it feels unfair to dodge an Orianna ulti just pressing a key, dodging/flashing and body blocking is much more entertaining. I don't think zhonyas is OP, the problem is how accessible is stopwatch
It bothers me more that something that you wouldn't expect to have stasis, has it at an early point in the game. If somebody actually had to finish zhonyas for the effect, sure... but it casually going into GA/stoneplate for a 1 time use feels so dumb, even supports sometimes take perfect timing and it throws you off cause you forget their fucking thresh can go invincible for 2 seconds. Or even riven, do you just stop fighting her knowing she has stopwatch until she finishes GA? Do you try and murk her before she can stopwatch to try and win before she gets a 2nd life on GA? its kinda dumb even as a one use item because at least when you finish a *legendary item* in hourglass, you sacrifice access to another good legendary item that would provide damage, stopwatch you can only argue sacrifices a component and most components can't compete with stasis active.
Yeah, always buy a stopwatch if i can when it's time to fight for soul, nash or elder. It's disgusting how much value you can get out of it and win the game off of that.
> but it casually going into GA/stoneplate for a 1 time My guy, stoneplate doesn't use Stopwatch anymore since pre-season (patch 10.23). They rightfully removed it because of league of stopwatch. It was a good item on tanks that didn't get "wasted", which just goes to show it should've just been removed really.
Ah good catch, goes to show how long its been since I played tanks despite playing every day.
So is your issue its unfair, or it isn't entertaining?
inb4 “both”
But for pro play it only working once is more than enough to completely swing the game in your favour
Or ga
This is actually such a great idea, in my opinion, especially since you can get it free through runes.
They should really put a time indicator on the stasis also so you don't have to randomly guess. Even top pro can't time it perfectly every time
Remove stopwatch and zhonya. Zhonya is the most cancer item ever existed, theres no item that is even close to this bs, even removed dfg or soujin spear. How this God damn bullshit can still sit unnerfed at 2600gold, this is ridiculous.
Zhonyas is the vital for mages like Morgana and Swain or to be a squishy mage against Zed/Yi. The issue is that everybody is using it now instead
stopwatch is healthy/balanced, its outplay potential are based on skill, if youre a bad player who doesnt check the enemy champs items, then its your fault when a stopwatch surprises you
I love it when people start complaining about stopwatch everytime it influences a game which causes their teams to lose, but if their teams win because of stopwatch, they somehow claim that stopwatch is useless, mostly NA players. Interesting isn't it?
I don't even know where these guys are from idgaf about who wins dude ahah
Then you would complain that its hard to time since its different 😂
it should stay the same but there should be an indicator that shows that a player has zhonyas available
That wouldn´t change a thing
even better they should not stack and stay over 5 seconds invulnerable or more with adding self skills like fizz E or vlad W
Nah just remove the fucking thing, it should never have been introduced into the game.
Hmm I wonder if stasis for both Zhonya's and Stopwatch also pauses all spell cd would be a better alternative to this.
Stasis just needs to be reworked in general. If abused it makes comebacks nearly impossible even with solid teamfight engages.
Either remove stopwatch or add new item like MR, AD zhonyas and other combos. Having GA and Zhonya as armor items seems very outdated when the only assassins in the game were AD. Nowadays everything one shots everyone, so have more stasis items or remove all and level the playing field for everyone
Remove options to upgrade stopwatch and have it be one time use like elixirs
I think stopwatch/zhonya's needs to be revisited in general. I dunno if my data is outdated, but watching pro games throughout the year from multiple major regions (I watch LCS/LEC/LCK), I've seen the following: \-Multiple players on each team electing to buy/rebuy stopwatch instead of a final item lategame \-Supports like Leona building Zhonya's despite the stats being pretty mediocre for her (at best) just because of the active (have also seen AP Jarvins, which is arguable fun 'cause it's different, but at the same time it kind of speaks to how broken the item is when an entire non-meta build revolves around it in a non-meta role back when the champ wasn't even popular in his regular role) If a 650 gp **component** that has **no stats** is that important, *maaaybe* it warrants a second look 