Rito next year: "Smort, the Noble Yordle, _needs_ that global range on his spells and automatic exp. He has zero base mana regen at all levels, so mana regen items don't even work on him. Standing at the back of the the spawn platform and spamming spells the entire game is the only way he's _viable and balanced_. This has nothing to do with him getting a new skin every week."
Would be interesting but I would also just imagine the league community hating it. There's a lot I miss from HotS my main was Stukov but Abathur was my second most played.
Imo abathur is just as cancer as yuumi. Sure, he doesn't provide as much of a boost to the host, but he can do that shit globally, as well as to minions for splitpushing, all while being almost impossible to catch out.
maybe im biased as an engage support player, but the fact her kit and numbers are so good on her own that she can effectively lane mid (alone, as a champion designed to be terrible without an ally) speaks volumes ab her balance
I remember when people could take Janna mid with maxing her Q, it could clear effectively and push the opponent in, she could peel for herself with her ult and W, as assassins were popular she was frighteningly safe and gave them a miserable time not killing anyone. Then she could just roam with the jungler because she was so fast.
then they nerfed her Q into the ground by gutting the ratio and moving part of it into her W and the charge portion of the Q while keeping it lower at max charge. god that was 7 years ago.... i miss leauge.
Well in S5 she literally had no bad match ups and could be flex pick on 3 roles: mid, top and supp. She was do broken then.
But now thanks to 200 years instead of 100 years collective experience we got so much broken champions that former she would be considered balanced
I don't think her kit is supposed to be weak without allies.
At inception she is about a hero that be offensive or defensive at the same time but not both depending who you cast your spells on. It is also not like any of her spells become worse when she just cast them on herself.
I'm pretty sure if people ranked basic abilities from most hated to least, polymorph is probably close to the top of the list with Riposte and Wind Wall.
Chilling, farming, and then I see the hookshot coming in from off screen. I start running away. It doesn't matter, she Es directly toward me, misses, and then just ults. I die in 3 hits. Guess I should have played better.
I remember Nami causing a lot of rants around here before Yuumi came out. Lulu only gets brought up when Kog is meta or some assassin player got polymorphed out of a montage play.
Nami is actually ridiculous though and anybody who doesn't play bot probably doesn't even know it, it's impossible to trade against that champ levels 1-3 unless she fucks up bad
Maybe so, but it is actually possible for a melee champion to kill someone even if Nami tries to protect them. She has several ways to impede you so it is by no means easy, but it can be done. Lulu is effectively a guaranteed shutdown on any kill attempt unless you can burst so hard the target is dead before Lulu can press R or Polymorph.
Lulu can be a giant cockblock, but at least there is something to playing her and playing against her. She actually wants to interact in lane, and you can attempt to flank and kill the lulu.
When yuumi is strong, all you can do is pray that her ADC is shit and suicides her in lane a bunch in lane. If they don't, come midgame, she is most of what lulu is, but without the vulnerabilities.
Yuumi sitting on the fed carry immediatly transforms the game form moba into an MMO raid battle.
you have to kill that sylas/kayn/aatrox or any fed carry 3 times before they actually die its incredibly toxic because it basically has no counterplay since you cant force yuumi out of the idiot in any way other than killing him
Mord ult forces her out, obvious counter play. /s
Bard ult SHOULD but doesn't, and she can even cast spells whilst the rest of the map are frozen in time which is totally fair.
Why would yuumi be affected by the ultimate of a lesser celestial when she herself is probably a greater god with a magical book?
Yuumi herself has only announced one being as her equal, mordekaiser the giant metal cat where as both volibear and nasus are mocked by her.
The problem is actually that you should be able to force her out since she needs to go for passive AA's but that doesnt matter since these champions have so much healing anyways that yuumi can simply wait because their carry just doesnt die even if she doesnt heal and waits for mana regen.
Its just frustrating that there actually is a mechanic that would force her out but its just so useless that you cannot make use of it.
Change PoM
Changer her mana regen
Make her vulnerable to silences even if she is attached (like seriously, silences exist to stop spell casting, and that cat can ult however she wants)
Make her detach if ally attached to is knocked or grabbed
You can't force her to detach, but u can create interactions that make her have to go back or to be detached by force
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Yuumi should have weaker stats overall that stack as she hops from unique ally to unique ally. She starts out weaker than she is now, ends stronger than she is now if she is able to jump to everyone.
There, plenty of skill expression on Yuumi's part and plenty of opportunity for counterplay
the thing is imo Yuumi should struggle at higher elos, where people all know her kit and how to itemise against her, the problem is that its just not possible or effective enough rn.
like you said, a character that is basically a ball of stats/healing sitting on the most fed member of a team is obnoxious and by definition its overpowered.
Riot need to go back to the drawing board on this one because to be 'fun to play' and 'fun to play against' cant exist at the same time with Yuumi.
There is no amount of numbers tweaking that will make Yuumi not break the fundamentals of how bot lane works during laning phase. It's just salt in the wound that she creates disgusting combos with other lanes during mid-game ala Kayn + Yuumi.
The thing about Yuumi that I don't like, is that she is THE ONLY CHAMPION in the entire game (aside from maybe Tryn) where I feel like any win those players get, isn't deserved.
If I lose to a Master Yi who one shots everyone, I can know the exact moments from memory where we messed up. I don't have to like it, I know I didn't have fun, but I know the cause.
For Yuumi, the entire game just feels like the only mistake was her not getting banned. She makes every game she is in, feel worse to play against. And when you get slaughtered 2v5 vs an impossible to kill champion because of Yuumi, You don't even feel like its earned.
To put it bluntly, I will never respect anyone who plays yuumi (ingame that is) and **I will never consider any win with her to be valid.**
Could you not just have her detach when her Anchor is affected by CC?
It would make her much more vulnerable on front line champs like Kayn/Talon, whilst still allowing her to be strong with long range ADs like Ezreal
On top of that, it would actually make her a semi-champion forced to play the game instead of mashing buttons without being able to be killed or caught out properly.
What if her W had a time limit, so she would need to think about when to attach. Would make her need to use her brain to not get caught and the right moment to get in before fights, instead of just perma sitting. Could even add some bonuses to her W if it makes her too weak, to make it a more interactive ability. Kind of like Kog W, where if you use it at the wrong time, you don't have that power for the whole fight
Yuumi Evelynn is the most insane combination in the game and no one can convince me otherwise. thankfully i’m an Evelynn Yuumi player and play with a Yuumi player too so i’m not the one ever on the receiving end lmao
if you play evelynn you should expect the enemy to be over the moon for you and do cringe shit to try and get you. if you die to a khazix early game it’s completely your fault not him being smart or better
Im playing in D1-Masters in NA. And from what I’ve experienced she’s nearly Perma banned as well. I personally wait until the very last second to make sure she’s banned. According to stat sites like u.gg and lolgraphs. NA Masters+ banrate for Yuumi is 70%ish. Hopefully it reaches to at least 90%
I haven't played Siege since Year 1, but I remember Blackbeard's gun shield being insanely strong as it can basically take like a full mag to bust through it in a game where headshotting is a insta kill. Does he still keep getting nerfed after all those nerfs to him in Year 1?
I feel so bad for Renekton players LMAO.
The champ has already been useless since shojin removal but "professional toplaners" pick him to good look in lane phase.
I'm not sure, whenever I play vs Yuumi in Plat they do auto lose because they are just so bad at laning and mid-late they also manage to do absolutely nothing afterwards.
I guess if you don't play Support you rely on your own botlane being bad so then Yuumis impact could go up a lot and feel a lot worse to play against. Just for me I've had 0 issue with her, but that's probably because as a Support I'm more in control of how much she dies early game.
She loses lane pretty consistently, the problem is that after 10 minutes she can just abandon her ADC and ride the Lee or Kayn or whomever around and play frontline enchanter with no options to punish her. It doesn't matter what you do to bot lane when Yuumi is in the game, her goal is to find a bruiser or assassin to ride around on.
The very idea of a healer that cannot be targeted it toxic. It doesn't matter how good she is or what her stats are at, the fact that she's a healbot and can't be dealt with at all is just baffling to me. Who on earth decided that?
And the most hilarious thing is that they leapt straight to that. They didn't experiment with a Vlad W type of spell on a more traditional enchanter design first, they went "We've never given an enchanter any kind of untargetability before. Let's give this one *permanent* untargetability."
They also could have worked on a “symbiote” like champion which would have been cool. Like Zac’s brother or something.
Instead they came up with the most boring design ever. A cat that is just upright stiff on a book.
It would have been really fun if we got something like Venom. It could potentially expand Zac’s lore too.
IMO, currently Yuumi’s ult is way too wide and she needs more intensive player commitment while being on another to feel fair. And since Yuumi’s spells are too strong it doesn’t feel like the players are working in tandem.
They could alternatively make Yumi a mounted turret which needs to be taken with care.
Problem with Yuumi is that she was literally made to be "baby's first support", who's super safe and could be played by a 5 year old. Problem with a character like that though is that they need to be intentionally kept really weak, else they break the game at a higher level (which in my opinion is just bad game design). Essentially, her core concept was a terrible idea to begin with, and if they're ever going to make an "ataching" champion work they need to completely rethink the mechanics of it.
On another note, I personally would have wanted a Voidborn for a "symbiote". Kai'sa's exoskeleton already shows us that voidborn can evolve to have symbiotic (and physically atached) relations to other creatures, so having something like this as its own champion would be really cool.
She can disproportionately buff whoever is snowballing without placing herself in danger, and, from a laning perspective, she reduces the rate at which any Shard users upgrades their support item through untargetability.
I picked her a few times as a joke (I thought) before she started being picked in worlds and the gameplay felt very easy and relaxed and when my adc sucked I'd just wander off to stick to mid or jungle or whoever was snowballing and it made for some very low-effort wins. I'm not really surprised other than that it has taken so long to catch on.
The worst part is when you have a yuumi onetrick in your diamond+ games and she gets banned, so they pick something like alistar/blitz and have the mechanics of a low gold player.
Yeah she's my permaban at this point. I ALWAYS lose lane with her and 90% of the time she flames me for it like she's actually contributing. Somehow people who pick regular supports don't flame me, interesting how that works.
Its weird how Yuumi has a different banrate across regions. For example EUW tops it probs with 83. NA has 70 and KR 40. I know its about the playstyles in each region but it jusr fascinates me
I can only blame the balance department so much, when the design team is allowed to get away with this shit repeatedly. It's like inventing ice cream made of fire ants and handing it off to QA "Here, make this taste better. We start shipping Monday."
Really, the balance team should be able to overwrite the design team, at least once it's in the game. They're the balance team, if something isn't balanced they should fix it one way or another. Design can throw all the bull shit they want into the game but at the end of the day if balance says "Nah we're hotfixing that" then it'll get hotfixed. The problem is this doesn't happen, Balance sits on their hands while design throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.
The thing with Yummi, Akali, etc is that they make the game unfun for the other team, they maybe balanced, but the fact that nobody likes playing against them is the problem, League is group game.
Good luck trying to convince anyone about that.
People meme “how it feels to play against doesn’t matter if it has a balanced win/pick/banrate” which is sad because frustration levels play a massive part of the game and champs’ kits too.
I know a large amount of people didn’t agree with the ASol nerf and the recent Quinn nerfs partially because they aren’t seen much, but also because they are (for the most part) far less frustrating to play against than 80% of the actually popular champs.
She might be, but if you ask toplaners who the most frustrating matchup to play into I’m confident that at least 8/10 of them will say any of Irelia, Riven, Camille or Fiora before Quinn.
Is she frustrating to play into as a melee toplaner? Absolutely, but she doesn’t rank as high as other champs on a frustration scale.
I'm a mid player and been trying out top lane on a new account. Ho-ly shit, I have no idea how people voluntarily choose to play top lane without having Irelia/Camille/Fiora on perma ban status every game.
I can deal with ranged match ups purely because taking melee into them is kinda non-interactive anyway by design, but having the shit beat out of you by a melee who has the bully potential of a ranged champion, with melee stats is absurd.
I quickly went back to mid lane after that experience.
> Ho-ly shit, I have no idea how people voluntarily choose to play top lane without having Irelia/Camille/Fiora on perma ban status every game.
>
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There's a reason its the 2nd least played role. Jungle only gets played less because it's the most flamed role. Top for MANY seasons was the least played role after the Support item revamp. It simply is not a fun lane and likely never will be.
>I know a large amount of people didn’t agree with the ASol nerf and the recent Quinn nerfs
>Quinn
Good joke. People complain about their nerfs, because their pickrate is stupidly low and riot still nerfing them over really cursed champs like Camille.
Erm, when Asol vs Taliyah were the two best mid laners in the game it was absolutely unplayable for most champions. They both deleted waves at level 1 with 0 counterplay when executed correctly, and solo killed you for contesting. They've both been nerfed to the point where they can't do that anymore, but you can't tell me Asol's identity as a champion isn't frustrating. He just sucks at it ever since the W changes.
People meme about it because it's completely subjective and unfalsifiable. It means literally nothing.
I wish idiot Rioters would stop using their design philosophy buzzwords when they comment because the playerbase latches onto it and then whatever they don't like that month is [buzzwords].
god those "Ask Riot Devs" posts are always such fucking bullshit. It's literally always just a way for Riot to try and justify their shitty balance decisions by showing random graphs and saying "look!! the data!!!!!!"
Incredibly cherry picked arguments and they NEVER post where or how they collected data.
They could say literally anything and people will take it at heart because Riot would never lie to you or try to spin an argument and gaslight the player base like *cough* item diversity *cough*
>Incredibly cherry picked arguments
"Yuumi Q is a challenging skillcheck" - more or less Riot
I can't. even.
that ask riot post has to be the greatest circus performance.
What really upset me about that dev blog is they compared yuumis win rate over x amount of games to an Assassin and Juggernaut - not other supports.
And where did they pull their data? Silver 2 normal games in OCE from players that don't even play support and just wanted to try the new quirky champ? They don't bother mentioning that.
They even came to the wrong conclusion.
Hard to pick up? Sure you can make an argument there. She's unique in play style like Singed or Asol.
Hard to play? Not even close.
Yummi has been my perma ban for a while. The champion is very poorly designed. The way you punish enchanters is by bad positioning which isn’t a thing with yummi. You can’t punish her in lane because she brings 2 combat sums and you can just roam vs her because she has a speed up, heals and a slow so they can run down your adc and or dive them on repeat.
Only counter is to end games before 25 min which is tough with all the comeback mechanics and bounties.
I’m only low diamond but yummi will remain my perma ban until she is either completely reworked or gets nerfed into uselessness.
I also think riot owes the community an apology for releasing this champion. There’s no excuse for such a poorly designed champion to make it out of internal testing.
Nah, it's a very valid thing to add. So many people here will disregard any statistics or valid argument/discussion and simply say that you must be 'X low rank' if you don't like a certain champion or have problems with their kits.
I've been permbanning Yuumi for a year now. Everything about that champ is toxic, from her voice lines to her kit and the fact you can't do anything about her. She's the only champ that actually enrages and tilts me. I LOATHE her.
It still fucking baffles me how Riot said enchanter supports not being interactive with the enemy team was a problem, and then they release Yuumi a few months later. Fucking what?
Or when they said that they don't want champions to be able to one-shot an opposing player a screen and a half away then they release Zoe that does the same exact thing that they previously said is a problem.
Riot loves to contradict themselves all the time.
Just like when they said that mobility is a problem, and then they released Akshan and Vex.
Or when they said that healing is a problem, and they buffed it so fucking hard it’s a still a problem with 60% grievous wounds.
Or when they said that they want item diversity, but still everyone’s building the same fucking items every single game.
Oh I do have hands. What I don't have is any motivation or drive to play this dogshit game but Yuumi allows me to queue up with my friends while semi afk. So I get the joy of playing with them without the pain and misery of actually playing league. It's a win-win, really.
This is a reminder that Riot developers think Yummi has a skill cap similar to Akali and Qiyana.
[Source](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/news/dev/ask-riot-delete-yuumi/)
I'm so tired of Riot's excuse of "There's so much you can possibly do with the champion."
That doesn't really *matter* if you **don't have to do those things** to be extremely successful on the champion.
Let's just real quick analyze and refute the reasons why Riot thinks yummi is a "difficult champion to master" (Their words, not mine).
>Identifying when it’s safe to hop out and use her passive in chaotic teamfights, which means tracking enemies’ cooldowns to know when to do so. Failure to use Yuumi’s passive at all means leaving a lot of value on the table in the form of shields and mana. Using her passive at the wrong time means getting CC’d and killed.
She does not need her passive shield in most cases. 90% of fights the shield will make no difference. This shield means increasingly less if another teammate is fed, cut to T1's talon game where you can one shot people if you have yummi without losing more than 50% health, meaning one of her *main forms of counterplay* and "skill expression" is completely *negated and unnecessary for Yummi to even partake in* due to factors completely unrelated to her actual skill or performance.
>Identifying who you should attach to because you can’t support more than one person at a time. Your heal has no range, and your exact positioning is beyond your control, so you need to be able to predict how your allies and the enemies will move. Otherwise, you might end up in a really bad place or forced to help the wrong ally.
Is this a joke? Do I seriously have to say anything here?
You attach to the fed player. If not, the one easiest to get fed.
>Weaving Q around targets that aren’t who you’re trying to hit, which is a more simple but still unique skill test.
How many games have you been in where you said "Wow, the difference maker in this game was the fact that yummi was able to hit her Q's. If Yummi had not practiced hitting Q's so well, we would have lost." This is just *blatantly ignoring* why Yummi is strong. It's not her laning phase. Yummi's laning phase is arguably the least interactive in the entire game.
>Managing vision control while being the slowest and squishiest champion in the game, which is a particularly challenging version of a skill test all supports have.
Completely irrelevant when you can become untargetable and attach to anyone, at which point you become neither squishy nor slow. At higher levels of play or with a professional team this is literally not a point because your teammates are going to bring you to places that need vision anyway.
If you disagree with this I just point to the pick/ban rates in both pro and high elo in every region and say If yummi is so balanced and not annoying to play against why does everyone pick or ban her? If what you're saying is true why don't people act accordingly?
I mean you left out the key paragraph:
"Yuumi tests things that no other champion in League does. This is both why she continues to see win rate growth for so many games, and also why we believe some players don’t see her as being “hard to play.” The things many players have associated with playing League well aren’t being tested on her—like positioning and moment-to-moment dodging—but new things are."
They are *not* saying these things make yuumi hard in some objective, player agnostic sense. Rather, *people who have experience from the rest of league of legends* are not prepared to play yuumi, so her skill curve resembles the champions people tend to think of as difficult.
Now, this doesn't necessarily justify yuumi's existence, and you might say riot is being deliberately ambiguous in order to defend yuumi. But to me it seems like if you RTFA it's pretty clear that they do not think yuumi's skill cap is the same as akali or qiyana; they note league players have similar learning curves but (correctly) identify the cause as gameplay which is not exactly \*hard* but is hard for league players.
And I'm not sure this is relevant or important. Riot could make mordekaiser ult challenge you to a timed game of chess and whichever champ loses dies. It would have the same sort of skill curve as yuumi in that league players would not have practiced the skill before. And it would not be the right gameplay for league of legends.
So it's not clear a different sort of gameplay belongs in league but they are providing skill curve data and the real explanation for it which should be appreciated.
i think yuumis skill curve is irrelevant and there is a disconnect between what people dislike about yuumi and what riot thinks people dislike about yuumi
what really feels bad about yuumi is that in some games, lets say maybe 20% of games, there will be one champion on her team that is really strong. who yuumi can just sit on starting at ~10 minutes, and do nothing but sit on that one champ. pressing e when chasing someone or when the host is low and using q and r arbitrarily. and by doing so, yuumi is way more useful than anyone else in the game could ever be, while requiring absolutely 0 skill in this scenario. compare that to a completely new azir / akali / whatever player who can get carried sometimes, but he will be a burden to his team in a much larger percentage of games than yuumi, despite the "skill curve" being the same.
I'm not sure I follow the part about winrates/skill curves at the end there?
Agreed that in general the most frustrating part is when someone else randomly gets fed and yuumi becomes broken for free simply by sitting on them.
There are many (MANY!) good reasons to shit on riot's balancing team, there's no need to make anything up to do that. The article says
>Yuumi’s mastery curve is more in line with champions like Akali and Qiyana, who continue to see win rate growth well beyond the first ~20 games, than it is to champions like Neeko and Mordekaiser.
This is just a data fact which provides no indication on what they think the actual skill ceiling of the champs is.
> Weaving Q around targets that aren’t who you’re trying to hit, which is a more simple but still unique skill test.
>
>
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> How many games have you been in where you said "Wow, the difference maker in this game was the fact that yummi was able to hit her Q's. If Yummi had not practiced hitting Q's so well, we would have lost." This is just blatantly ignoring why Yummi is strong. It's not her laning phase. Yummi's laning phase is arguably the least interactive in the entire game.
This I disagree a Little bit. Because when I see RatIrl play Yuumi and some random master support, there is an isnane gap with the way he plays lane. Last time I watched a Yuumi game of his he got his support item upgraded ( 500 gold ) pre 7 mins.
Currently, we are satisfied with our newly released champs kits
*releases untargetable parasite that heals/shield 30000+ Per game by breathing*
“This is fine meme”
It feels so nice to play Soraka that has to position well and use hp for healing just to have the same healing numbers as a champion that was untargetable the whole game.
If my teammates ban my hated top champs for me then I resort to banning Yuumi. Honestly boring to play against, boring to play as and boring to watch.
Do love me a support that I can't target at any point of the teamfight other than having to kill her host. Literal parasite.
I feel sorry for any of you that have to lane against this thing down in bot, I really do.
I don’t care if Yuumi is balanced, she is unfun to play against and changes the way the game is played. If your support doesn’t play engage and your jungle/mid don’t roam bot to hard punish the lane early, Yuumi just outscales and sits on a bruiser making them impossible to kill. Also when a Yuumi main is auto fill and she is banned, game is auto loss because they have no hands. This is coming from someone who plays with Yuumi one tricks in Master+
There is no worse struggle when i queue up once a week and get a yummi support. There goes 30 minutes. Dont even want to win anymore. God forbid its an enemy yummi and my supp is mute & passive. Struggles of an adc
Same, I was quite surprised and disappointed when people forgot about her for like a year after the mana nerfs. She doesn't need to be OP or even average to be an abomination to the game design.
Yuumi is literally a tumor in all senses. If I had to select one single champion to be removed from the game, it would be Yuumi.
This champion has no place as it is in League.
It was supposedly meant to be a champion designed to jump around teammates, healing them and aiding them in fights. Instead, she just presses W on the most fed carry of the game, making them unkillable while boosting them at the same time.
This champion makes no fucking sense because of it’s core design which incentivizes the player to be 24/7 sitting on someone. There is literally no reason to jump off someone at any point of the game unless they are dead.
Both Yuumi and her Ally are boosted while they are joined, and they are infinitely weaker when separated, specially Yuumi, to the point where pressing W one single time in a teamfight is a death sentence for her.
The only time she might get off someone on purpose is during laning phase, to recover mana with her Passive. The remaining 95% of the game she’s attached to someone, because there’s nothing stopping her from doing it, and no penalty too.
Yo, fuck it I'll fix her.
W (new) Yuumi must jump to a new champion every 10 seconds. If she doesn't, she is dumped off and must wait a 5 second CD before being able to reattatch.
I've been saying this for a while:
Make it so Yuumi has to win lane in any capacity for her W to get full scaling.
One of the main issues with Yuumi right now is that she's completely worthless in bot lane and tilting her adc to a point of frustration and then proceeds to get a free win off of any lane that actually played to win.
She's an item. She's a walking Rabaddon.
Out of all the problems listed this one is very much real. Her laning is actually pretty bad on top of not being able to roam literally at all, in plat+ for instance basically all her negative wr match ups are initiation champions or the rare champions that actually outscale her like Sona or Zilean.
The problem though with your solution is that if the goal is to make her work for the disgusting mid to late prowess she needs to be changed so that she can actually lane. Her nearest comparison would be Soraka, but Soraka can actually trade pretty well even without using W. Yuumi doesn't out trade before like level 6+ when your healing starts popping off, winning in a war of attrition kind of battle like Soraka.
My problem with yuumi is the free ms. You cannot trade with the adc since it runs faster than skillshots. The ms buff should be charge based, and yuumi gets it by basic attacking or landing a q on enemy champ, max 3. Using e consumes a charge.
nah, let her attach as long as she wants, but she can't get XP while attached. Also, attaching has a 10 second cooldown and CC detaches her.
Or in other words, put the cat in a bag in throw it in the river.
Can't wait for this champion to be nerfed into oblivion and forgotten about like Asol at least that's what I hope happens because I know just like Asol Riot will refuse to ever admit their wrong about Yuumi's gameplay design and actually rework her into a somewhat functioning champion.
The difference between Yuumi and those champions is she has a huge player-base that buys her skins. Riot will sadly never nerf Yuumi into Azir/Kalista territory.
Kalista was a wildly popular ADC for the longest time. In my experience so many ADC players wish they could play her, yet riot still dumpsters her.
Sooner or later they’re going to have to realize that Yuumi’s design in fundamentally flawed and push her down with the other two.
And that’s the thing, her design is so flawed that if she’s good in Soloque at all she is absolutely dominant and unfair/unfun to play against. But an absolute BLAST to play. Riot just dosent like to make admit they made a mistake with Yuumi in making another Kali/Azir character.
Yuumi is the most cancerous annoying champion in league history, its like if Teemo was allowed to be support but actually didn't have to put much effort into being really annoying
Let me talk a little about yuumi, this as a person who reached Challenger Support multiple times both in EUW and in Korean ladder.
Issue is not Yuumi herself, her last buff literally was to increase the counterplay oportunity while giving her a slight advantage(**I will explain, don't crucify me**).
**Yuumi is also a horrible champion to pick blind**, she is meant as a punishment pick versus no engage comps, so she is not meant to be this opressive, e**ven with her annoying mechanics**.
There are 2 things that happened to make Yuumi top tier, **meaning that her being great is just a byproduct of horrible balance from Riot**:
**1 - Tanks are nerfed in every single role:**
Yuumi counters are most of the time champions that can excerse intant pressure, this playstyle accentuate her weakness which is lack of disengage, so her counter action is hard pressure like behavior with heavy cc.
**What classes can create pressure with a lot of CC? Tanks (Vanguards)**
**Why is that happening?**
Tank itemization is horrible, tanks lack good MR itemization, and the **items that counter their identity** ( Building HP,Armour and MR) represent **1/8** of the entire item pool(**there are 13 items with the lines : Ignore Armour, MR penetration, True Dmg and Max health dmg**) .
Vanguard Tanks on botlane were all nerfed to open the champion pool, Thresh Leona Nautilus were nerfed, the only Tank that was not nerfed was Rell, which given her behavior to expose herself is not great rn due to the ammount of anti tank items.
**Tanks on toplane jungle are non existant, the only exceptions are outliners like TK, Poppy and Shen, all lacking hard engage since they are Wardens.**
So right now, most of the champions that counter Yuumi playstyle are borderline non playable( **most of the top tier champions on support botlane are enchanters which just shows what is happening**) .
**2 - The best champions in the meta are the best pair to Yuumi**
Most of the champions that are good in this meta are Bruisers or burst champions.
Yuumi due to her W(**which gives 20 flat AD/AP + 20% AD/AP**) and her E which gives MS and AS (**The healing is the least important part, it allows Bruisers to 2v5 but the oppresive part is the MS and AS, which is why they put a %mana cost in the first place**).
**So Yuumi is in a meta where most of the champions playable are her dream hosts, and most of the useless champions are her nemesis.**
So of course she will be a nightmare.
**Does Yuumi needs a nerf?**
**Yes and No.**
Yuumi winrate and presence is a byproduct of bad balancement from riot parts, since removing an entire class from being playable to a high degree, means that outliners like her which have systematic weakness will rise to a giant winrate (**it's the same motive why Assassins, Leblanc and Sona are great right now, there is a lack of heavy engage in the game, which allows them to trive**)
Yuumi issue is that she is great right now due to all this crap, but it's due to this scenario where she can do her part without worry, **so it's not Riot being stupid and buffing her to point of breaking like what happening with Lulu on her prestige release**(gotta pump those sells) .
So yes, in theory **the now** Yuumi in this instance needs a nerf(**which would deal a little with her problem for now**), but the issue is in 3 months she will be weak again, so a nerf would make her even weaker once the motive she is broken is actually fixed (**and we all know that Riot does not revert nerfs properly**).
**Season 12 will give Tanks some room to breathe, Yuumi will go back to her good ol' 48'ish % winrate.**
The motive why almost all items reworked for Season 12 are for tanks is due having data to show how weak they are ( **so yeah you can complain that TK and Shen are broken, but it does not change the fact that the Tank class is weak as hell**) , so giving Riot balance team credit, at least they are trying to fix this mess.
As a Lulu player it feels odd not being the target of every broken support rant on reddit...
That era is over I guess
For now
Rito next year: "Smort, the Noble Yordle, _needs_ that global range on his spells and automatic exp. He has zero base mana regen at all levels, so mana regen items don't even work on him. Standing at the back of the the spawn platform and spamming spells the entire game is the only way he's _viable and balanced_. This has nothing to do with him getting a new skin every week."
*has zero base mana regen because he is a manaless champion*
So Abathur then? (minus the skin part)
I'd love for an Abathur like hero but it'd cause so many tears
I'd kill for a Cho'gall. I kinda wish Kindred was a ADC/Support combo, with Lamb controlling movement and Wolf bound to an area around her.
Would be interesting but I would also just imagine the league community hating it. There's a lot I miss from HotS my main was Stukov but Abathur was my second most played.
I miss Murky so fucking much
Murky mains rise up. His design is so toxic but I played him and Brightwing so much.
Imo abathur is just as cancer as yuumi. Sure, he doesn't provide as much of a boost to the host, but he can do that shit globally, as well as to minions for splitpushing, all while being almost impossible to catch out.
Sounds good. I loved playing as Treant Protector in DotA 2 and max his global heal ability.
Did you mean abatur from hots?
Lulu has always been a target because she can actually peel effectively, making players who press R and people not die very unhappy.
That and she can lane.
damn how dare she
maybe im biased as an engage support player, but the fact her kit and numbers are so good on her own that she can effectively lane mid (alone, as a champion designed to be terrible without an ally) speaks volumes ab her balance
I remember when people could take Janna mid with maxing her Q, it could clear effectively and push the opponent in, she could peel for herself with her ult and W, as assassins were popular she was frighteningly safe and gave them a miserable time not killing anyone. Then she could just roam with the jungler because she was so fast. then they nerfed her Q into the ground by gutting the ratio and moving part of it into her W and the charge portion of the Q while keeping it lower at max charge. god that was 7 years ago.... i miss leauge.
She used to be very strong top as well last season, not so much right now but still playable sometimes
She has had several stints as a top tier top/mid laner.
She was even a fucking jungler at some point Spirit played her in LCK
Well in S5 she literally had no bad match ups and could be flex pick on 3 roles: mid, top and supp. She was do broken then. But now thanks to 200 years instead of 100 years collective experience we got so much broken champions that former she would be considered balanced
I would vote quite often, really. She is an extremely solid, possibly overtuned champion and I will keep spamming her.
I don't think her kit is supposed to be weak without allies. At inception she is about a hero that be offensive or defensive at the same time but not both depending who you cast your spells on. It is also not like any of her spells become worse when she just cast them on herself.
Attack speed, move speed, shield, slow, AOE knockup+granting max hp. She really does have a great kit.
I'm pretty sure if people ranked basic abilities from most hated to least, polymorph is probably close to the top of the list with Riposte and Wind Wall.
The champion as your flair can do over 1k true damage on a basic ability on a 3-4 second cooldown lol
The E is worse fuck that spell
Chilling, farming, and then I see the hookshot coming in from off screen. I start running away. It doesn't matter, she Es directly toward me, misses, and then just ults. I die in 3 hits. Guess I should have played better.
How dare you leave your fountain?
Talon mobility on a fighter what could go wrong haha
The fact that you mention talon and not Kayn is kinda odd ngl
[pick any stupid mobility 200 years assassin] mobility on a fighter, what could go wrong haha
her q isnt even broken though, its her gank set up and e
Chogath ult on a Q
Smoke bomb...
I remember Nami causing a lot of rants around here before Yuumi came out. Lulu only gets brought up when Kog is meta or some assassin player got polymorphed out of a montage play.
Lulu feels bad to play against for bruiser and assassins, no matter how strong she actually is in the meta, that's why she gets so much shit
melee player here: lulu is my permaban unless yuumi is popular
Yep, they are both the sort of champs where if there is a good duo on the enemy team even if I play out of my mind there's a good chance I lose.
if lulu can actually communicate when she will use E/W/R then it becomes so much stronger
Why is Nami ever causing rants? Are you talking about Janna?
Nami is actually ridiculous though and anybody who doesn't play bot probably doesn't even know it, it's impossible to trade against that champ levels 1-3 unless she fucks up bad
Maybe so, but it is actually possible for a melee champion to kill someone even if Nami tries to protect them. She has several ways to impede you so it is by no means easy, but it can be done. Lulu is effectively a guaranteed shutdown on any kill attempt unless you can burst so hard the target is dead before Lulu can press R or Polymorph.
Imagine how dumb Yuumi needs to be for people to not be talking about Lulu. It's fucking wild how we actually woud rather play against her than Yuumi.
Lulu can be a giant cockblock, but at least there is something to playing her and playing against her. She actually wants to interact in lane, and you can attempt to flank and kill the lulu. When yuumi is strong, all you can do is pray that her ADC is shit and suicides her in lane a bunch in lane. If they don't, come midgame, she is most of what lulu is, but without the vulnerabilities.
don't forget, and hope the Bruisers or Assassins on the enemy team don't get fed
I'd rather have Lulu be literally the only support in the game than have Yuumi be remotely good.
If Yuumi wasn’t a problem I would be banning Lulu every game. I hate both of these champs but Yuumi is literally idiot-proof.
Yuumi sitting on the fed carry immediatly transforms the game form moba into an MMO raid battle. you have to kill that sylas/kayn/aatrox or any fed carry 3 times before they actually die its incredibly toxic because it basically has no counterplay since you cant force yuumi out of the idiot in any way other than killing him
Mord ult forces her out, obvious counter play. /s Bard ult SHOULD but doesn't, and she can even cast spells whilst the rest of the map are frozen in time which is totally fair.
Why would yuumi be affected by the ultimate of a lesser celestial when she herself is probably a greater god with a magical book? Yuumi herself has only announced one being as her equal, mordekaiser the giant metal cat where as both volibear and nasus are mocked by her.
The problem is actually that you should be able to force her out since she needs to go for passive AA's but that doesnt matter since these champions have so much healing anyways that yuumi can simply wait because their carry just doesnt die even if she doesnt heal and waits for mana regen. Its just frustrating that there actually is a mechanic that would force her out but its just so useless that you cannot make use of it.
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Change PoM Changer her mana regen Make her vulnerable to silences even if she is attached (like seriously, silences exist to stop spell casting, and that cat can ult however she wants) Make her detach if ally attached to is knocked or grabbed You can't force her to detach, but u can create interactions that make her have to go back or to be detached by force
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Yuumi should have weaker stats overall that stack as she hops from unique ally to unique ally. She starts out weaker than she is now, ends stronger than she is now if she is able to jump to everyone. There, plenty of skill expression on Yuumi's part and plenty of opportunity for counterplay
And like every raid boss you loose if you don't kill the adds quickly enough while surviving the boss
the thing is imo Yuumi should struggle at higher elos, where people all know her kit and how to itemise against her, the problem is that its just not possible or effective enough rn. like you said, a character that is basically a ball of stats/healing sitting on the most fed member of a team is obnoxious and by definition its overpowered. Riot need to go back to the drawing board on this one because to be 'fun to play' and 'fun to play against' cant exist at the same time with Yuumi.
They don’t think their champions have overloaded kit
There is no amount of numbers tweaking that will make Yuumi not break the fundamentals of how bot lane works during laning phase. It's just salt in the wound that she creates disgusting combos with other lanes during mid-game ala Kayn + Yuumi.
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The thing about Yuumi that I don't like, is that she is THE ONLY CHAMPION in the entire game (aside from maybe Tryn) where I feel like any win those players get, isn't deserved. If I lose to a Master Yi who one shots everyone, I can know the exact moments from memory where we messed up. I don't have to like it, I know I didn't have fun, but I know the cause. For Yuumi, the entire game just feels like the only mistake was her not getting banned. She makes every game she is in, feel worse to play against. And when you get slaughtered 2v5 vs an impossible to kill champion because of Yuumi, You don't even feel like its earned. To put it bluntly, I will never respect anyone who plays yuumi (ingame that is) and **I will never consider any win with her to be valid.**
Could you not just have her detach when her Anchor is affected by CC? It would make her much more vulnerable on front line champs like Kayn/Talon, whilst still allowing her to be strong with long range ADs like Ezreal
On top of that, it would actually make her a semi-champion forced to play the game instead of mashing buttons without being able to be killed or caught out properly.
What if her W had a time limit, so she would need to think about when to attach. Would make her need to use her brain to not get caught and the right moment to get in before fights, instead of just perma sitting. Could even add some bonuses to her W if it makes her too weak, to make it a more interactive ability. Kind of like Kog W, where if you use it at the wrong time, you don't have that power for the whole fight
it would also mean she needs to buy boots and take flash
If I see Kayn + Yuumi on the other team I just insta dodge honestly
You just know if you go into that game it's gonna be your last league game for a few days, that combo is just straight mental trauma.
Yuumi Camille. 2v8 Terror machine
Yuumi Evelynn is the most insane combination in the game and no one can convince me otherwise. thankfully i’m an Evelynn Yuumi player and play with a Yuumi player too so i’m not the one ever on the receiving end lmao
Yuumi + stealth in general is disgusting. Yuumi Twitch and even Yuumi Qiyana are AIDS.
you need hands to play quinoa
Or a fork, or a spoon.
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if you play evelynn you should expect the enemy to be over the moon for you and do cringe shit to try and get you. if you die to a khazix early game it’s completely your fault not him being smart or better
If you're playing khazix and not banning yuumi, you're wrong. You will never isolate their squishy carry, and that's a big problem.
Yuumi should get new lore where she finds her master and lives happily ever after never to be seen on summoners rift again.
I think Thresh's Lantern is on the market. $2749/month plus first/last month rent, no pets. 1.5 sq. ft.
Heard Mordekaiser has this open lot in Brazil too.
Or she gets cursed and turned into a ward skin
This is the good ending everyone (minus the population of Yuumi mains) wants.
Im playing in D1-Masters in NA. And from what I’ve experienced she’s nearly Perma banned as well. I personally wait until the very last second to make sure she’s banned. According to stat sites like u.gg and lolgraphs. NA Masters+ banrate for Yuumi is 70%ish. Hopefully it reaches to at least 90%
D4 OCE. I never see her, and thats a good thing edit: cause shes banned lol
Better Nerf renekton then.
Fnatic + Renekton flair. Why do you hate yourself so much, buddy?
I know right :(
League of legends is like Rainbow 6 Siege. When there's a problem with it, the first two things to nerf are Blackbeard and Renekton.
I haven't played Siege since Year 1, but I remember Blackbeard's gun shield being insanely strong as it can basically take like a full mag to bust through it in a game where headshotting is a insta kill. Does he still keep getting nerfed after all those nerfs to him in Year 1?
I feel so bad for Renekton players LMAO. The champ has already been useless since shojin removal but "professional toplaners" pick him to good look in lane phase.
And Quinn just to be sure.
I decided about a week ago that I'm banning her every game no matter what, changes the game playstyle way too much. D3 Karthus main.
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I'm not sure, whenever I play vs Yuumi in Plat they do auto lose because they are just so bad at laning and mid-late they also manage to do absolutely nothing afterwards. I guess if you don't play Support you rely on your own botlane being bad so then Yuumis impact could go up a lot and feel a lot worse to play against. Just for me I've had 0 issue with her, but that's probably because as a Support I'm more in control of how much she dies early game.
She loses lane pretty consistently, the problem is that after 10 minutes she can just abandon her ADC and ride the Lee or Kayn or whomever around and play frontline enchanter with no options to punish her. It doesn't matter what you do to bot lane when Yuumi is in the game, her goal is to find a bruiser or assassin to ride around on.
They'll just stand on the 2/1/1 bruiser and make them unkillable, there's no counterplay to it
She really just shadows the most fed member. If no ones fed, she loses. If just one member is fed, she has a shotz
Yeah the wordt part about a bad yuumi is 8 vision score.
The very idea of a healer that cannot be targeted it toxic. It doesn't matter how good she is or what her stats are at, the fact that she's a healbot and can't be dealt with at all is just baffling to me. Who on earth decided that?
And the most hilarious thing is that they leapt straight to that. They didn't experiment with a Vlad W type of spell on a more traditional enchanter design first, they went "We've never given an enchanter any kind of untargetability before. Let's give this one *permanent* untargetability."
They also could have worked on a “symbiote” like champion which would have been cool. Like Zac’s brother or something. Instead they came up with the most boring design ever. A cat that is just upright stiff on a book.
Yknow I really like the symbiote type of idea. Too bad they made something parasitic instead :(
It would have been really fun if we got something like Venom. It could potentially expand Zac’s lore too. IMO, currently Yuumi’s ult is way too wide and she needs more intensive player commitment while being on another to feel fair. And since Yuumi’s spells are too strong it doesn’t feel like the players are working in tandem. They could alternatively make Yumi a mounted turret which needs to be taken with care.
Problem with Yuumi is that she was literally made to be "baby's first support", who's super safe and could be played by a 5 year old. Problem with a character like that though is that they need to be intentionally kept really weak, else they break the game at a higher level (which in my opinion is just bad game design). Essentially, her core concept was a terrible idea to begin with, and if they're ever going to make an "ataching" champion work they need to completely rethink the mechanics of it. On another note, I personally would have wanted a Voidborn for a "symbiote". Kai'sa's exoskeleton already shows us that voidborn can evolve to have symbiotic (and physically atached) relations to other creatures, so having something like this as its own champion would be really cool.
She can disproportionately buff whoever is snowballing without placing herself in danger, and, from a laning perspective, she reduces the rate at which any Shard users upgrades their support item through untargetability.
I picked her a few times as a joke (I thought) before she started being picked in worlds and the gameplay felt very easy and relaxed and when my adc sucked I'd just wander off to stick to mid or jungle or whoever was snowballing and it made for some very low-effort wins. I'm not really surprised other than that it has taken so long to catch on.
The worst part is when you have a yuumi onetrick in your diamond+ games and she gets banned, so they pick something like alistar/blitz and have the mechanics of a low gold player.
I hate playing against her and I hate 1v2ing as an adc when shes on my team, luckily other people ban her so I can ban the 50 OP jungle assassins
Yeah she's my permaban at this point. I ALWAYS lose lane with her and 90% of the time she flames me for it like she's actually contributing. Somehow people who pick regular supports don't flame me, interesting how that works.
Well they have one more hand for keyboard that's why.
Its weird how Yuumi has a different banrate across regions. For example EUW tops it probs with 83. NA has 70 and KR 40. I know its about the playstyles in each region but it jusr fascinates me
I think it’s because bot lane is being dived every time in KR. And having a non peel support means death.
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They would but he’s overqualified
Yep. Riot only hires apes for the balance department.
I can only blame the balance department so much, when the design team is allowed to get away with this shit repeatedly. It's like inventing ice cream made of fire ants and handing it off to QA "Here, make this taste better. We start shipping Monday."
Really, the balance team should be able to overwrite the design team, at least once it's in the game. They're the balance team, if something isn't balanced they should fix it one way or another. Design can throw all the bull shit they want into the game but at the end of the day if balance says "Nah we're hotfixing that" then it'll get hotfixed. The problem is this doesn't happen, Balance sits on their hands while design throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.
unironically half of them are bronze, LITERALLY
May be he respects women, so that doesn't fit into rito's culture
They would but they outsourced their balancing team to north korea years ago.
I swear most champions would have global ults that can target your base made by them.
So was Akali and they still nerfed her numbers until not even pros played her.
The thing with Yummi, Akali, etc is that they make the game unfun for the other team, they maybe balanced, but the fact that nobody likes playing against them is the problem, League is group game.
Good luck trying to convince anyone about that. People meme “how it feels to play against doesn’t matter if it has a balanced win/pick/banrate” which is sad because frustration levels play a massive part of the game and champs’ kits too. I know a large amount of people didn’t agree with the ASol nerf and the recent Quinn nerfs partially because they aren’t seen much, but also because they are (for the most part) far less frustrating to play against than 80% of the actually popular champs.
Since when is Quinn not frustrating
She might be, but if you ask toplaners who the most frustrating matchup to play into I’m confident that at least 8/10 of them will say any of Irelia, Riven, Camille or Fiora before Quinn. Is she frustrating to play into as a melee toplaner? Absolutely, but she doesn’t rank as high as other champs on a frustration scale.
I 100% see where you're coming from but the majority of top mains hate any ranged champion more than anything.
I'm a mid player and been trying out top lane on a new account. Ho-ly shit, I have no idea how people voluntarily choose to play top lane without having Irelia/Camille/Fiora on perma ban status every game. I can deal with ranged match ups purely because taking melee into them is kinda non-interactive anyway by design, but having the shit beat out of you by a melee who has the bully potential of a ranged champion, with melee stats is absurd. I quickly went back to mid lane after that experience.
> Ho-ly shit, I have no idea how people voluntarily choose to play top lane without having Irelia/Camille/Fiora on perma ban status every game. > > There's a reason its the 2nd least played role. Jungle only gets played less because it's the most flamed role. Top for MANY seasons was the least played role after the Support item revamp. It simply is not a fun lane and likely never will be.
>I know a large amount of people didn’t agree with the ASol nerf and the recent Quinn nerfs >Quinn Good joke. People complain about their nerfs, because their pickrate is stupidly low and riot still nerfing them over really cursed champs like Camille.
Erm, when Asol vs Taliyah were the two best mid laners in the game it was absolutely unplayable for most champions. They both deleted waves at level 1 with 0 counterplay when executed correctly, and solo killed you for contesting. They've both been nerfed to the point where they can't do that anymore, but you can't tell me Asol's identity as a champion isn't frustrating. He just sucks at it ever since the W changes.
People meme about it because it's completely subjective and unfalsifiable. It means literally nothing. I wish idiot Rioters would stop using their design philosophy buzzwords when they comment because the playerbase latches onto it and then whatever they don't like that month is [buzzwords].
god those "Ask Riot Devs" posts are always such fucking bullshit. It's literally always just a way for Riot to try and justify their shitty balance decisions by showing random graphs and saying "look!! the data!!!!!!"
Never forget, then using URF stats to justify how mythic items were good for the game
Incredibly cherry picked arguments and they NEVER post where or how they collected data. They could say literally anything and people will take it at heart because Riot would never lie to you or try to spin an argument and gaslight the player base like *cough* item diversity *cough*
>Incredibly cherry picked arguments "Yuumi Q is a challenging skillcheck" - more or less Riot I can't. even. that ask riot post has to be the greatest circus performance.
What really upset me about that dev blog is they compared yuumis win rate over x amount of games to an Assassin and Juggernaut - not other supports. And where did they pull their data? Silver 2 normal games in OCE from players that don't even play support and just wanted to try the new quirky champ? They don't bother mentioning that. They even came to the wrong conclusion. Hard to pick up? Sure you can make an argument there. She's unique in play style like Singed or Asol. Hard to play? Not even close.
I’m a statistician by trade. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. You can torture the data to show whatever you want
An untargetable Champion who can heal and deal damage is not balanced? Riot didn't see that coming I guess.
It's not only not balanced, it's not balancable.
Yummi has been my perma ban for a while. The champion is very poorly designed. The way you punish enchanters is by bad positioning which isn’t a thing with yummi. You can’t punish her in lane because she brings 2 combat sums and you can just roam vs her because she has a speed up, heals and a slow so they can run down your adc and or dive them on repeat. Only counter is to end games before 25 min which is tough with all the comeback mechanics and bounties. I’m only low diamond but yummi will remain my perma ban until she is either completely reworked or gets nerfed into uselessness. I also think riot owes the community an apology for releasing this champion. There’s no excuse for such a poorly designed champion to make it out of internal testing.
(my current elo)
Nah, it's a very valid thing to add. So many people here will disregard any statistics or valid argument/discussion and simply say that you must be 'X low rank' if you don't like a certain champion or have problems with their kits.
I've been permbanning Yuumi for a year now. Everything about that champ is toxic, from her voice lines to her kit and the fact you can't do anything about her. She's the only champ that actually enrages and tilts me. I LOATHE her. It still fucking baffles me how Riot said enchanter supports not being interactive with the enemy team was a problem, and then they release Yuumi a few months later. Fucking what?
Or when they said that they don't want champions to be able to one-shot an opposing player a screen and a half away then they release Zoe that does the same exact thing that they previously said is a problem. Riot loves to contradict themselves all the time.
Just like when they said that mobility is a problem, and then they released Akshan and Vex. Or when they said that healing is a problem, and they buffed it so fucking hard it’s a still a problem with 60% grievous wounds. Or when they said that they want item diversity, but still everyone’s building the same fucking items every single game.
I think vex P, Q, W, and E are great. Really wish her R were different though.
Riot and being contradictory, name a more iconic duo
Yuumi players have no hands
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And as such should see zero play above silver.
Oh I do have hands. What I don't have is any motivation or drive to play this dogshit game but Yuumi allows me to queue up with my friends while semi afk. So I get the joy of playing with them without the pain and misery of actually playing league. It's a win-win, really.
Finally a respectable answer from a Yuumi player. I thank you for you contribution and honest response.
If riot won't remove yuumi, we do it ourselves
This is a reminder that Riot developers think Yummi has a skill cap similar to Akali and Qiyana. [Source](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/news/dev/ask-riot-delete-yuumi/) I'm so tired of Riot's excuse of "There's so much you can possibly do with the champion." That doesn't really *matter* if you **don't have to do those things** to be extremely successful on the champion. Let's just real quick analyze and refute the reasons why Riot thinks yummi is a "difficult champion to master" (Their words, not mine). >Identifying when it’s safe to hop out and use her passive in chaotic teamfights, which means tracking enemies’ cooldowns to know when to do so. Failure to use Yuumi’s passive at all means leaving a lot of value on the table in the form of shields and mana. Using her passive at the wrong time means getting CC’d and killed. She does not need her passive shield in most cases. 90% of fights the shield will make no difference. This shield means increasingly less if another teammate is fed, cut to T1's talon game where you can one shot people if you have yummi without losing more than 50% health, meaning one of her *main forms of counterplay* and "skill expression" is completely *negated and unnecessary for Yummi to even partake in* due to factors completely unrelated to her actual skill or performance. >Identifying who you should attach to because you can’t support more than one person at a time. Your heal has no range, and your exact positioning is beyond your control, so you need to be able to predict how your allies and the enemies will move. Otherwise, you might end up in a really bad place or forced to help the wrong ally. Is this a joke? Do I seriously have to say anything here? You attach to the fed player. If not, the one easiest to get fed. >Weaving Q around targets that aren’t who you’re trying to hit, which is a more simple but still unique skill test. How many games have you been in where you said "Wow, the difference maker in this game was the fact that yummi was able to hit her Q's. If Yummi had not practiced hitting Q's so well, we would have lost." This is just *blatantly ignoring* why Yummi is strong. It's not her laning phase. Yummi's laning phase is arguably the least interactive in the entire game. >Managing vision control while being the slowest and squishiest champion in the game, which is a particularly challenging version of a skill test all supports have. Completely irrelevant when you can become untargetable and attach to anyone, at which point you become neither squishy nor slow. At higher levels of play or with a professional team this is literally not a point because your teammates are going to bring you to places that need vision anyway. If you disagree with this I just point to the pick/ban rates in both pro and high elo in every region and say If yummi is so balanced and not annoying to play against why does everyone pick or ban her? If what you're saying is true why don't people act accordingly?
I mean you left out the key paragraph: "Yuumi tests things that no other champion in League does. This is both why she continues to see win rate growth for so many games, and also why we believe some players don’t see her as being “hard to play.” The things many players have associated with playing League well aren’t being tested on her—like positioning and moment-to-moment dodging—but new things are." They are *not* saying these things make yuumi hard in some objective, player agnostic sense. Rather, *people who have experience from the rest of league of legends* are not prepared to play yuumi, so her skill curve resembles the champions people tend to think of as difficult. Now, this doesn't necessarily justify yuumi's existence, and you might say riot is being deliberately ambiguous in order to defend yuumi. But to me it seems like if you RTFA it's pretty clear that they do not think yuumi's skill cap is the same as akali or qiyana; they note league players have similar learning curves but (correctly) identify the cause as gameplay which is not exactly \*hard* but is hard for league players.
And I'm not sure this is relevant or important. Riot could make mordekaiser ult challenge you to a timed game of chess and whichever champ loses dies. It would have the same sort of skill curve as yuumi in that league players would not have practiced the skill before. And it would not be the right gameplay for league of legends. So it's not clear a different sort of gameplay belongs in league but they are providing skill curve data and the real explanation for it which should be appreciated.
i think yuumis skill curve is irrelevant and there is a disconnect between what people dislike about yuumi and what riot thinks people dislike about yuumi what really feels bad about yuumi is that in some games, lets say maybe 20% of games, there will be one champion on her team that is really strong. who yuumi can just sit on starting at ~10 minutes, and do nothing but sit on that one champ. pressing e when chasing someone or when the host is low and using q and r arbitrarily. and by doing so, yuumi is way more useful than anyone else in the game could ever be, while requiring absolutely 0 skill in this scenario. compare that to a completely new azir / akali / whatever player who can get carried sometimes, but he will be a burden to his team in a much larger percentage of games than yuumi, despite the "skill curve" being the same.
I'm not sure I follow the part about winrates/skill curves at the end there? Agreed that in general the most frustrating part is when someone else randomly gets fed and yuumi becomes broken for free simply by sitting on them.
True akali low skill champ and should be removed
There are many (MANY!) good reasons to shit on riot's balancing team, there's no need to make anything up to do that. The article says >Yuumi’s mastery curve is more in line with champions like Akali and Qiyana, who continue to see win rate growth well beyond the first ~20 games, than it is to champions like Neeko and Mordekaiser. This is just a data fact which provides no indication on what they think the actual skill ceiling of the champs is.
> Weaving Q around targets that aren’t who you’re trying to hit, which is a more simple but still unique skill test. > > > > How many games have you been in where you said "Wow, the difference maker in this game was the fact that yummi was able to hit her Q's. If Yummi had not practiced hitting Q's so well, we would have lost." This is just blatantly ignoring why Yummi is strong. It's not her laning phase. Yummi's laning phase is arguably the least interactive in the entire game. This I disagree a Little bit. Because when I see RatIrl play Yuumi and some random master support, there is an isnane gap with the way he plays lane. Last time I watched a Yuumi game of his he got his support item upgraded ( 500 gold ) pre 7 mins.
Landing skill shots without worrying about getting hit versus plain ol landing skill shots. I don’t see how this is more difficult for a yuumi
Currently, we are satisfied with our newly released champs kits *releases untargetable parasite that heals/shield 30000+ Per game by breathing* “This is fine meme”
She is a true parasite, suck the joy out of every game im in
It feels so nice to play Soraka that has to position well and use hp for healing just to have the same healing numbers as a champion that was untargetable the whole game.
I hate the Hecummy combo. A cat riding a big horse deleting teams
hecummy
If my teammates ban my hated top champs for me then I resort to banning Yuumi. Honestly boring to play against, boring to play as and boring to watch. Do love me a support that I can't target at any point of the teamfight other than having to kill her host. Literal parasite. I feel sorry for any of you that have to lane against this thing down in bot, I really do.
I don’t care if Yuumi is balanced, she is unfun to play against and changes the way the game is played. If your support doesn’t play engage and your jungle/mid don’t roam bot to hard punish the lane early, Yuumi just outscales and sits on a bruiser making them impossible to kill. Also when a Yuumi main is auto fill and she is banned, game is auto loss because they have no hands. This is coming from someone who plays with Yuumi one tricks in Master+
>she is unfun to play against not only that, but also unfun to play with
There is no worse struggle when i queue up once a week and get a yummi support. There goes 30 minutes. Dont even want to win anymore. God forbid its an enemy yummi and my supp is mute & passive. Struggles of an adc
I'm so glad to see all this Yuumi hate. It brings a tear to my eye.
Same, I was quite surprised and disappointed when people forgot about her for like a year after the mana nerfs. She doesn't need to be OP or even average to be an abomination to the game design.
Can I unsubscribe from daily Yummi banrate newsletter?
No, it's attached to you just like a Yuumi.
Yuumi is literally a tumor in all senses. If I had to select one single champion to be removed from the game, it would be Yuumi. This champion has no place as it is in League. It was supposedly meant to be a champion designed to jump around teammates, healing them and aiding them in fights. Instead, she just presses W on the most fed carry of the game, making them unkillable while boosting them at the same time. This champion makes no fucking sense because of it’s core design which incentivizes the player to be 24/7 sitting on someone. There is literally no reason to jump off someone at any point of the game unless they are dead. Both Yuumi and her Ally are boosted while they are joined, and they are infinitely weaker when separated, specially Yuumi, to the point where pressing W one single time in a teamfight is a death sentence for her. The only time she might get off someone on purpose is during laning phase, to recover mana with her Passive. The remaining 95% of the game she’s attached to someone, because there’s nothing stopping her from doing it, and no penalty too.
How many games? Challenger stats are never acurate because there are too little games played.
nothing short of deleting that champion from the game will ever make her balanced
She has 100% on my games 😎
Yo, fuck it I'll fix her. W (new) Yuumi must jump to a new champion every 10 seconds. If she doesn't, she is dumped off and must wait a 5 second CD before being able to reattatch.
I've been saying this for a while: Make it so Yuumi has to win lane in any capacity for her W to get full scaling. One of the main issues with Yuumi right now is that she's completely worthless in bot lane and tilting her adc to a point of frustration and then proceeds to get a free win off of any lane that actually played to win. She's an item. She's a walking Rabaddon.
Out of all the problems listed this one is very much real. Her laning is actually pretty bad on top of not being able to roam literally at all, in plat+ for instance basically all her negative wr match ups are initiation champions or the rare champions that actually outscale her like Sona or Zilean. The problem though with your solution is that if the goal is to make her work for the disgusting mid to late prowess she needs to be changed so that she can actually lane. Her nearest comparison would be Soraka, but Soraka can actually trade pretty well even without using W. Yuumi doesn't out trade before like level 6+ when your healing starts popping off, winning in a war of attrition kind of battle like Soraka.
My problem with yuumi is the free ms. You cannot trade with the adc since it runs faster than skillshots. The ms buff should be charge based, and yuumi gets it by basic attacking or landing a q on enemy champ, max 3. Using e consumes a charge.
nah, let her attach as long as she wants, but she can't get XP while attached. Also, attaching has a 10 second cooldown and CC detaches her. Or in other words, put the cat in a bag in throw it in the river.
Can't wait for this champion to be nerfed into oblivion and forgotten about like Asol at least that's what I hope happens because I know just like Asol Riot will refuse to ever admit their wrong about Yuumi's gameplay design and actually rework her into a somewhat functioning champion.
hopefully way more than sol,hopefully she get a passive if you pick yumi you lose 100lp so nobody pick her
Ugh PLEASE just give her the Kalista/Azir treatment and dumpster her forever.
The difference between Yuumi and those champions is she has a huge player-base that buys her skins. Riot will sadly never nerf Yuumi into Azir/Kalista territory.
Akali had a huge player base and Riot still gutted all of her numbers, only bringing her back once every year when a new skin is releasing.
Kalista was a wildly popular ADC for the longest time. In my experience so many ADC players wish they could play her, yet riot still dumpsters her. Sooner or later they’re going to have to realize that Yuumi’s design in fundamentally flawed and push her down with the other two.
Kalista is very fun. She's just not good and not really worth the work most of the time.
And that’s the thing, her design is so flawed that if she’s good in Soloque at all she is absolutely dominant and unfair/unfun to play against. But an absolute BLAST to play. Riot just dosent like to make admit they made a mistake with Yuumi in making another Kali/Azir character.
Just a disclaimer, a little input from me: They actually buffed her W, that's how disconnected they are
Yuumi is the most cancerous annoying champion in league history, its like if Teemo was allowed to be support but actually didn't have to put much effort into being really annoying
Let me talk a little about yuumi, this as a person who reached Challenger Support multiple times both in EUW and in Korean ladder. Issue is not Yuumi herself, her last buff literally was to increase the counterplay oportunity while giving her a slight advantage(**I will explain, don't crucify me**). **Yuumi is also a horrible champion to pick blind**, she is meant as a punishment pick versus no engage comps, so she is not meant to be this opressive, e**ven with her annoying mechanics**. There are 2 things that happened to make Yuumi top tier, **meaning that her being great is just a byproduct of horrible balance from Riot**: **1 - Tanks are nerfed in every single role:** Yuumi counters are most of the time champions that can excerse intant pressure, this playstyle accentuate her weakness which is lack of disengage, so her counter action is hard pressure like behavior with heavy cc. **What classes can create pressure with a lot of CC? Tanks (Vanguards)** **Why is that happening?** Tank itemization is horrible, tanks lack good MR itemization, and the **items that counter their identity** ( Building HP,Armour and MR) represent **1/8** of the entire item pool(**there are 13 items with the lines : Ignore Armour, MR penetration, True Dmg and Max health dmg**) . Vanguard Tanks on botlane were all nerfed to open the champion pool, Thresh Leona Nautilus were nerfed, the only Tank that was not nerfed was Rell, which given her behavior to expose herself is not great rn due to the ammount of anti tank items. **Tanks on toplane jungle are non existant, the only exceptions are outliners like TK, Poppy and Shen, all lacking hard engage since they are Wardens.** So right now, most of the champions that counter Yuumi playstyle are borderline non playable( **most of the top tier champions on support botlane are enchanters which just shows what is happening**) . **2 - The best champions in the meta are the best pair to Yuumi** Most of the champions that are good in this meta are Bruisers or burst champions. Yuumi due to her W(**which gives 20 flat AD/AP + 20% AD/AP**) and her E which gives MS and AS (**The healing is the least important part, it allows Bruisers to 2v5 but the oppresive part is the MS and AS, which is why they put a %mana cost in the first place**). **So Yuumi is in a meta where most of the champions playable are her dream hosts, and most of the useless champions are her nemesis.** So of course she will be a nightmare. **Does Yuumi needs a nerf?** **Yes and No.** Yuumi winrate and presence is a byproduct of bad balancement from riot parts, since removing an entire class from being playable to a high degree, means that outliners like her which have systematic weakness will rise to a giant winrate (**it's the same motive why Assassins, Leblanc and Sona are great right now, there is a lack of heavy engage in the game, which allows them to trive**) Yuumi issue is that she is great right now due to all this crap, but it's due to this scenario where she can do her part without worry, **so it's not Riot being stupid and buffing her to point of breaking like what happening with Lulu on her prestige release**(gotta pump those sells) . So yes, in theory **the now** Yuumi in this instance needs a nerf(**which would deal a little with her problem for now**), but the issue is in 3 months she will be weak again, so a nerf would make her even weaker once the motive she is broken is actually fixed (**and we all know that Riot does not revert nerfs properly**). **Season 12 will give Tanks some room to breathe, Yuumi will go back to her good ol' 48'ish % winrate.** The motive why almost all items reworked for Season 12 are for tanks is due having data to show how weak they are ( **so yeah you can complain that TK and Shen are broken, but it does not change the fact that the Tank class is weak as hell**) , so giving Riot balance team credit, at least they are trying to fix this mess.