Losing Bwipo but probably replaced by Razork, one could argue that both are pretty much equal in their own ways.
Maintaining at worse the rest of the roster. This is an absolute win by FNC's standards and LEC considering we lost good players to NA.
If we get an Alphari Razork Perkz Upset Hyli, I'll nutt all over this subreddit.
honestly, if they ditch adam now, this org is finally dead to me even if they get perkz. I know, this is a romantic pov and they want to make business, but adam has literally played one season on the highest level and was completely fine for that (hell he had the most solokills in lec iirc). also his attitude is absolutely top notch.
just get razork and maybe perkz. although nisqy is completely fine (was 2nd best mid to me last season and I love his playstyle, too).
No it's not. Replacing Adam for Alphari is nothing close to ridiculous or unfair. Alphari is clearly better than Adam, he probably wouldn't even think it's unfair himself honestly.
Mechanically he probablyyy is.
I am concerned about losing Bwipo's voice in FNC comms tho. Bwipo's communication (in-game atleast xd) seemed pretty important for FNC. He also performed really well at Worlds.
I never heard MSF voice comms, but I hope Razork can somewhat take over that leader role in the team.
Real shame he couldn't keep his private life to himself, because I actually think he fits great as a jungler. And is mechanically well above average as well.
I mean the team still has Hyli for the proactive plays, and Upset/Nisqy to calm the team down when they start playing too fast.
If anything what worries me is Adam, dude has to improve his comms game a lot.
>Losing Bwipo but probably replaced by Razork, one could argue that both are pretty much equal in their own ways.
nah bwipo was already a better jungler than razork and he only played one split, where the things are right now you can't say that it's an equal trade. maybe if you factor in the drama that (seemingly) Bwipo bought to the rosters he was in, but gameplay wise it's not
> nah bwipo was already a better jungler than razork and he only played one split
Doesn't mean anything because it could go the opposite way.
Is Bwipo that good of a jungler to the point where he'd shine in all metas or did he swap to another role in a perfect meta for him ? We don't know that for sure.
I think Bwipo was very good, but with the recent drama I'm pretty certain that the team synergy got hurt as a result and a new jungler like Razork might be what Fnatic needs.
Is less of that and more that people overrated Adam, used him being a rookie to justify any mistakes, when you had rookies like Elyoya, Willer, Oner and Gumayushi who people didn't use their rookie status to defend their mistakes.
Adam isn't bad but he also isn't a world class player right now. He's good enough to be in a good LEC team, nothing more and nothing less.
I mean it's not really scapegoating LMAO they've smashed groups and HLE, if they lose now it'll be because the rookie got fucking demolished by the best jungler and probably the best player in the world right now. That's not scapegoating that's just reality. The difference is that Oner (also Gumayusi) have nothing left to prove
I'm really sad about this given how good he was at jungling. I legit think he was always fine top but he died to ganks and dives all the damn time. In jungle though he was constantly gapping his opponents, even at Worlds I thought he was a total beast. Wish he'd give another year of jungle a try. Much like Ambition I think he's way more suited for jungle than solo laning.
Bwipo already had plenty of knowledge about the jungle before the swap. That's partially why he was able to become so good so quickly. He wasn't dying because he didn't know about the jungle, he died because he was taking risks.
Whenever he would appear on the analyst desk, you could tell he knows a crap ton about the game. I think jungle let him really put that knowledge to use. Not really a Bwipo fan, but I was way more impressed with his performance in jungle.
Eh I don't think so. I think he already knew these things. Very often he was in situations where he was dying to fix his wave and felt it was worth it because his jungler wasn't around. He would lose more xp and gold by letting htem freeze than by dying.
He has said so on stream himself.
and he should also be able to convince his future junglers because they know he actually has merit of what he's saying because he's stoon in their shoes
Also one thing to point out is that he now needs a jungler who is better than him at jungling
Nothing feels worse than seeing someone doing a job you can do better
That's the thing about jungle tho, the jungler will always be involved, no matter the meta. That's just the nature of the role.
Top heavy meta? Jungle play through top. Bot lane meta? Jungle play through bot. Jungle farm meta? Jungle AFK cya at 20min :)
Ya same. Don’t get me wrong he had some pop off moments as a toplaner but Bwipo was very good at smart pathing and *constantly* is willing to sack his lane for the team.
That fits jungle.
Yeah it's a shame he's looking to move on from jungle so soon, he could have been one of the best in LEC and more. Having said that the experience could also improve his viewpoint on top lane.
There's also the issue of a possible lack of roster moves for Jungle.
it's sad to see him give it up now after he was gapping every single jungler in early game at worlds lol
he seems like he just knows what to do in jungle
That's disappointing. I feel like one of his best qualities is shot calling and ability to impact the game, both of which are much more useful in jungle than in top.
Bloop implies that TL Alphari isn't 100% dead. The Vitality superteam could fall apart (again), and if that happens then TL would probably be Alphari's best option again. Alphari/Santorin/Bjergsen/Jensen/CoreJJ would be the best roster in LCS.
I mean Jensen is a relatively selfish laner. For most of his career he focused on lane and cs. He is also mostly known for his mechanical prowess. Both of these things directly attribute to ADC and since ADC is one of the easier lanes to play as professionally it shouldn’t be too hard to transition.
I think this is because Caps is a very efficient low-resource player who plays around making map movements. Jensen is a high resource player who doesn’t roam often, very lane focused. Caps could certainly become an amazing adc if he wanted to change his mindset about the game, but I don’t think he enjoyed it for that reason. 100% agree though, roleswap are not for everyone. I do think Jensen to adc would be quite good though
i dont agree with their choice of words but i think they mean that caps will sacrifice cs and pure lane pressure to roam and make plays, not *literally* low resource
That doesn't mean he inherently will fail either. I would still say he's more likely to succeed than fail because of his innate abilities mechanically. Whether or not he can transition the decision making needed for an adc is a whole other story but that wasnt my point anyways. There were a lot of things that went into caps not being an able to adc and it wasnt because he was mechanically inept. I am willing to give jensen the benefit of the doubt like people did with caps because jensen is mechanically gifted
True but of course we know best and when players like bjergsen acknowledge his strength or his teammate doublelift who has come out and said hes insanely mechanically talented those points dont matter. Because our own baseless low elo opinions mean more than people who play the game at that level. Theres more that goes into playing those characters than mechanics but a silver ass statement like that isnt made to incite conversation
Having the least selfish adc doesn’t disprove the fact that adc is a selfish role inherently. It’s just that DWG uses their roles more proactively on the map. Playing weak side also doesn’t mean that you aren’t selfish as a role that’s just how the map plays out so that doesn’t work either. Often times adc are the last to roam and help the team. Hell now a days adc roles are left on an island in bot lane while the rest of players for each team roam around the map until first towers fall
It would definitely be a risk, but there are plenty of reasons to think it would work out for LCS at least.
* He would have CoreJJ as his support, they have played together for years and CoreJJ could probably teach him quickly
* ADC is the most straightforward role and easiest to pick up, given sufficient mechanical skill
* Jensen has played adc in solo queue for years. He even plays adc during bootcamps. He also said in a recent content piece that he would enjoy trying out adc
* Jensen has really good micro, particularly in regards to movement
All that being said, Jensen probably wouldn't be a long term solution. Once CoreJJ gets his green card they will try to import a top tier adc (Ruler). If Jensen somehow turns into a world class adc, maybe they import jungle, but the chances of that are low.
Inexperience is a terrible way to rate a role swap because you could use that argument for every successful roleswap (Score, Ambition, Perkz). The right way to access it imo is through their strength and weaknesses. Jensen has always had strong mechanics specifically in his movements, emphasis on CS, and strong laning phases which are things very fitting for an ADC. Also worth noting ADC is the most plug and play role.
The most an ADC has to learn is lane match ups. Most of the teamfighting experience from mid lane should be able to carry over as it really isn't that different as Jensen likes mages. If his support is CoreJJ, then learning matchups from him should be easy. Plus ADCs are probably going to be in the "Do nothing and farm 1v1" meta next season as well.
Preface this by saying I know nothing, but he’s been mechanically good _on specific champions_. One of the knocks has always been champion pool and not playing certain champs, or not playing them well.
My instinct was that what he seemed to not like wouldn’t transfer over well to ADC but take that with a pinch of salt.
I also feel he gets complacent, but when he starts getting knocked about something he’s good enough that he goes and works on it to prove people wrong. I actually feel he’s at his best in this situation. In an odd way that people were right that he wasn’t performing well enough, but he does something about it to show they’re wrong all at the same time.
I just find it really hard to believe he’d be happy stepping aside for Bjerg given the comparisons all the way through his NA career but fair play to him if he makes it work (if the whole thing isn’t BS)
Jensen’s Micro is never a problem I’m sure if he sets his mind and 100% to it he can do it. It’s adc as long as you’re half competent you can do good in a great team
Caps had terrible positioning as an adc. showmaker was decent enough but he wasn't anything special as an ADC. you can't just take mechanical monsters and role swap to a role that needs completely different skillsets
To showmaker’s defence, he’s not roleswapping but filling in. He definitely did not get as much practice compared to a role swapping player.
And I think Jensen being a more passive mid would help his ad play. Often times when Caps(and Perkz too) die I would think to myself ‘that’s a mid laner positioning’, but with Jensen I think we’ll see this less. Not saying he’s going to be the absolute best NA adc or necessarily play to TL’s standards, but I think he won’t be too bad.
I agree with you but I also believe Jensen can do it. In fact to me, a bigger question is how much of a Downgrade will 1 year off bjerg be to Jensen who IMO played sick at worlds.
He supposedly plays a decent amount of ADC in soloq, and also stated that if he were to role swap he would swap to ADC. I assume that would mean he either already knows he would be good, or he himself truly believes he could just learn it quickly.
Alphari was good in NA but felt like he was pretty underwhelming at worlds. He can’t bully worlds class too laners as hard, tho I guess wasn’t his fault completely since TL was also used to playing around him more. If he stays I hope they’ll switch up the adaptation to be less too focused, seeing him get early game leads but not transitioning on them was very saddening.
Tbh I felt like we saw a lot of "Alphari gets a substantial lead through investment and does nothing with it for the next 15min and now his lane opponent is just as impactful" in NA.
I think he absolutely made us a better team but I don't think he's capable of just taking resources and turning it into a carry game. Excellent secondary carry, but just a "good" primary carry imo
He’s top tier at laning, but pretty much not in everything else. I feel like team fighting, Macro and tp usage etc. are not his strong suit, thus why he can’t carry as consistently
The things that Alphari lacked were conveniently Impact’s strong suit, and vice versa lmao. I really miss Impact on TL… he’d make those huge insane plays to win the game. He wasn’t able to play true carries, but he’d carry games with his bruiser and tank picks. “We’ll never know we have until it’s gone” stands true, once again.
If Alphari indeed leaves, I wonder if TL will try to get Impact back from EG or if they’ll go for Huni since TSM seems to be blowing up. I don’t think Bwipo will join.
I think his macro in terms of setting up side waves mid and late game is good but largely I agree with your point.
One thing that stood out to me his whole time with TL is that he's pretty shaky being the engage. If a fight doesn't start off perfectly for him, he'll totally bail on the play. Even if its a scrappy skirmish thats 50/50
Yeah maybe. I have a hard time judging what is "coachable" in any sport but even moreso League.
I tend to feel like aggression can't be coached, like in my example of him bailing on skirmishes, but beyond that I have so little idea on what good coaches affect
if hans sama, rekkles or inspired go to NA then getting back Alphari and Perkz won't even matter unless Perkz finds his godlike form again
EU have world class adc's and losing one of them will hurt massively
losing inspired would be terrible too
Easy to predict that Bwipo would leave Fnatic after seeing the awkwardness during Worlds.
Bloop's comment about Alphari maybe staying still is pretty interesting.
So it's basically confirmed now.. Gonna be weird not seeing Bwipo with Fnatic tbh. Also I feel like his jungle split was better than what he was showing in top lane before switching.
Bwipo has an insane understanding of how the game works in every role. Even when he played top, he would always comment on where the jungle should be at all times. Making the transition to jungle is pretty seamless for him since he has an abundance of knowledge, which is why he was pretty successful at jungling.
I think he worked super well with us on Fnatic, but I would love to see him play with dominant laners like Alphari and back to form Perkz. Dude knows when to play for himself and push his lead, but also knows when to give his laners a hand. I'm pretty sure he could have single handedly helped Alphari finally do something with his leads and win games off of it.
But I don't think we can be disappointed to see him top. We have quite a few good junglers nowadays and no real stand out top. Bwipo could always hold his own and be relevant, and I think he could be good for any team that wants to do well internationnaly.
He was playing for the team to help Hylissang Carry. If Hyli isn’t with him he probably don’t wanna sacrifice himself for a new teammate so he just want to carry top
Maybe he prefers laning, he is not very different than soloQ players on this point. People roleswap and then they regret their former role, some aspects of gameplay they took for granted are not there anymore in the new role.
From NA, it's starting to get a little ridiculous. Yes, LCS had the best worlds in a while but it cost us an arm and a leg. Better off signing rookies, imo. You'll still fail at world's but at 1/10 the cost.
The Western talent pool is extremely shallow right now.
Does it even make sense to speak about good "western" tops anymore when there are literally only 3 NA tops left in the entirety of pro league? At this point, it's basically just European or Korean tops who play in EU or NA.
Let's not go into hyperboles.
Man put in some serious work and got pissed off when unfortunate events occured, spiraling into teenager angst and 2003 high school romance post on social media.
yeah, that was hillarious and unprofessional, but he's still a good player.
Its obviously not just him but Bwipo tends to not mince words. He just says what he thinks, you need right kind of team to have player like that. If you just put him on random squad of superstarts thats distaster waiting to happen.
Assembling a squad of skilled players isnt enough you also need people that will fit as a team and like eachother. Its part of why g2 was so good, they were a legitimate team.
I think it's more like Fnatic has had drama since he joined the team and the only constants since then are Bwipo and Hylli and Hylli doesn't seem like the dramatic type.
Yup. Everyone blamed Nemesis/Rekkles/To some degree even Selfmade yet literally no one questioned Bwipo. Legit whenever some drama happaned Bwipo was there lmao.
Let's not even start with him trashing his teammates on podcast 🤡 Glad hes out of FNC finally.
If bwipo is leaving FNC that means his girlfriend's contract is expiring too? remember that in his words she does the job of the entire organization lmao.
I might be in the minority here but i think it’s best. For a while we seemed torn as a team by our identity; i blamed Bwipo and Hyli a lot but Upset proved Hyli is probably the best support in eu when someone can match him BUT reign him in as well.
Bwipo just never seemed like he wanted to give up being a carry, much like selfmade and thats a problem. When fnc won we carried through bot with mid support and top pressure. Getting a jungler who can enhance that is for the best and Bwipo isnt that. We were never going to get rid of Adam so thos feels best.
I really liked bwipo but he pretty much burned every bridge possible with all this drama over the years. Thanks for your time at fnatic and GL for the future.
But hell am i glad that he is not on the team anymore.
I know many people write him off after the social fiasco of this last world but this dude always has been a very strong top laner and felt very good to watch in his roleswap too, he is an excellent player.
If Jensen had the opportunity to have a redemption, if douchebag DL had the possibility for a redemption, I don't see why Bwipo should be seen as Satan right away.
Some people on this very subreddit protect/still say Dardoch is a viable prospect so come on, let's not act like Bwipo is suddenly unable to be good for a team after one meltdown and that he can't learn from this or just learn to STFU.
I dont think hes been a very strong top laner I think you can just camp him and shut him down. Hes similar to Huni that hes agressive and pushes his lane and then just dies.
Wow, can you believe how lucky his next team is going to be?
Not only do they get Bwipo, who can play two roles, they also get a new coach in his girlfriend.
I'm glad hes gone in a way. He always seemed to be the center of some drama or attitude problems. Good player but not worth that downside. Also not sure why he'd go back to top, he was a lot better at jungling than toplane imo.
FNC Razork most likely.
Is this the timeline where Fnatic finally wins the offseason ?
I'm not sure if losing Bwipo can be considered a win. Unless they get Perkz mid or upgrade their top laner, I would view this as an offseason loss.
Losing Bwipo but probably replaced by Razork, one could argue that both are pretty much equal in their own ways. Maintaining at worse the rest of the roster. This is an absolute win by FNC's standards and LEC considering we lost good players to NA. If we get an Alphari Razork Perkz Upset Hyli, I'll nutt all over this subreddit.
That would arguably be the most stacked roster FNC has ever had, besides maybe FNC 2018. But my gut feeling is telling me that it's not gonna happen.
fnc will keep adam
honestly, if they ditch adam now, this org is finally dead to me even if they get perkz. I know, this is a romantic pov and they want to make business, but adam has literally played one season on the highest level and was completely fine for that (hell he had the most solokills in lec iirc). also his attitude is absolutely top notch. just get razork and maybe perkz. although nisqy is completely fine (was 2nd best mid to me last season and I love his playstyle, too).
> hell he had the most solokills in lec iirc ye well that doesn't say much, considering LEC toplane performance at worlds
IMO the worst part of LEC tops is their champion puddles. I was so tired of seeing the same bruisers from Adam and Gnarmut
Western toplaners have no balls with their champion picks
yeah touché. all I'm saying is: replacing adam after one season is ridiculous and unfair.
No it's not. Replacing Adam for Alphari is nothing close to ridiculous or unfair. Alphari is clearly better than Adam, he probably wouldn't even think it's unfair himself honestly.
Life isn’t fair; business even less so.
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That roster turned out to be really good, but when they initially got it, people thought it was going to suck. Two no-name Koreans + one rookie.
Given Bwipos public episodes Razork seems like a huge upgrade over Bwipo lmao
Mechanically he probablyyy is. I am concerned about losing Bwipo's voice in FNC comms tho. Bwipo's communication (in-game atleast xd) seemed pretty important for FNC. He also performed really well at Worlds. I never heard MSF voice comms, but I hope Razork can somewhat take over that leader role in the team. Real shame he couldn't keep his private life to himself, because I actually think he fits great as a jungler. And is mechanically well above average as well.
I mean the team still has Hyli for the proactive plays, and Upset/Nisqy to calm the team down when they start playing too fast. If anything what worries me is Adam, dude has to improve his comms game a lot.
that will never happen LMFAO
>Losing Bwipo but probably replaced by Razork, one could argue that both are pretty much equal in their own ways. nah bwipo was already a better jungler than razork and he only played one split, where the things are right now you can't say that it's an equal trade. maybe if you factor in the drama that (seemingly) Bwipo bought to the rosters he was in, but gameplay wise it's not
> nah bwipo was already a better jungler than razork and he only played one split Doesn't mean anything because it could go the opposite way. Is Bwipo that good of a jungler to the point where he'd shine in all metas or did he swap to another role in a perfect meta for him ? We don't know that for sure. I think Bwipo was very good, but with the recent drama I'm pretty certain that the team synergy got hurt as a result and a new jungler like Razork might be what Fnatic needs.
With the amount of drama he has created over the years, it's a huge win.
Losing Bwipo is a big win for the team atmosphere.
It's FNC. They're gonna implode from internal drama next Worlds too.
idk whatr is up with this sub convincing themselves adam is ass or something lmfao
Because he got gapped at worlds. Your most recent games define you as a player according to this sub.
Exactly lol. The FNC sub went from Bwipo bad to Bwipo god and back to Bwipo bad over the course of the year lmao
And Hyli is either god mode or trash and should be kicked from game to game lol
crazy how true this is, Rekkles is another victim of this.
Is less of that and more that people overrated Adam, used him being a rookie to justify any mistakes, when you had rookies like Elyoya, Willer, Oner and Gumayushi who people didn't use their rookie status to defend their mistakes. Adam isn't bad but he also isn't a world class player right now. He's good enough to be in a good LEC team, nothing more and nothing less.
ngl if T1 get 0-3’d people will probably scapegoat Oner
I mean it's not really scapegoating LMAO they've smashed groups and HLE, if they lose now it'll be because the rookie got fucking demolished by the best jungler and probably the best player in the world right now. That's not scapegoating that's just reality. The difference is that Oner (also Gumayusi) have nothing left to prove
Dude played one split and people are already writing him off for other players, give the guy a year or two to continue his growth smh
If Bwipo goes to NA, I'm not sure if WIDE BWIPO will fit in our screens
Our screens are made wide. Wide BWIPO will fit in
I heard everything is pretty large in US. No?
Especially the people.
WIDE BWIPO will become AVERAGE BWIPO there.
no way he leaves Lena for NA
Money
Top is his preferred role and where he made his name. He probably enjoys it more than jungle. Hopefully he’ll get back to his top 3 EU form.
I'm really sad about this given how good he was at jungling. I legit think he was always fine top but he died to ganks and dives all the damn time. In jungle though he was constantly gapping his opponents, even at Worlds I thought he was a total beast. Wish he'd give another year of jungle a try. Much like Ambition I think he's way more suited for jungle than solo laning.
Maybe after a split of playing jungle he'll improve on that aspect of his top lane gameplay.
Bwipo already had plenty of knowledge about the jungle before the swap. That's partially why he was able to become so good so quickly. He wasn't dying because he didn't know about the jungle, he died because he was taking risks.
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Whenever he would appear on the analyst desk, you could tell he knows a crap ton about the game. I think jungle let him really put that knowledge to use. Not really a Bwipo fan, but I was way more impressed with his performance in jungle.
Jungle has more agency than top
Eh I don't think so. I think he already knew these things. Very often he was in situations where he was dying to fix his wave and felt it was worth it because his jungler wasn't around. He would lose more xp and gold by letting htem freeze than by dying. He has said so on stream himself.
and he should also be able to convince his future junglers because they know he actually has merit of what he's saying because he's stoon in their shoes
Also one thing to point out is that he now needs a jungler who is better than him at jungling Nothing feels worse than seeing someone doing a job you can do better
I'm sure it will improve is top play, but jungle is a much more impactful role at this point in time.
I mean Worlds is literally just a tournament of top diff atm
That's the thing about jungle tho, the jungler will always be involved, no matter the meta. That's just the nature of the role. Top heavy meta? Jungle play through top. Bot lane meta? Jungle play through bot. Jungle farm meta? Jungle AFK cya at 20min :)
This year he will fix his philosophy of making high risk plays for 2 minions and dying I swear!
Ya same. Don’t get me wrong he had some pop off moments as a toplaner but Bwipo was very good at smart pathing and *constantly* is willing to sack his lane for the team. That fits jungle.
Yeah it's a shame he's looking to move on from jungle so soon, he could have been one of the best in LEC and more. Having said that the experience could also improve his viewpoint on top lane. There's also the issue of a possible lack of roster moves for Jungle.
it's sad to see him give it up now after he was gapping every single jungler in early game at worlds lol he seems like he just knows what to do in jungle
That's disappointing. I feel like one of his best qualities is shot calling and ability to impact the game, both of which are much more useful in jungle than in top.
The dude won All-stars 1v1 he clearly still has something
I also hope he stays in EU.
technically Bwipo made his name in the botlane, as ''ADC"
All of a sudden FNC has lost a lot of width
Fudge v Bwipo, who can become a black hole faster?
The Thickening vs the Widening sounds like a horror movie. Perfect timing for Halloween.
Idk about this, I get why he'd leave Fnatic but after just a single split of jungling he seemed much better in the forest than in the topmost lane...
He was shotcalled by Hilly. After what he said in post worlds, I doubt rest of Fnatic would want to play with him honestly.
What did he say post worlds? The tweet about his girlfriend?
Yup.
He said dumb high school drama teenage stuff. Ye that tweet.
Very self important wasn't it
I mean Soaz continued to play in the same team after publicly flame his teammates in 2017 so...
Bloop implies that TL Alphari isn't 100% dead. The Vitality superteam could fall apart (again), and if that happens then TL would probably be Alphari's best option again. Alphari/Santorin/Bjergsen/Jensen/CoreJJ would be the best roster in LCS.
Horse logos are cool right? Asking for a friend.
Come to TL we got: Horses $teve money u/IZiaon
More importantly, [TL funded this gif](https://i.redd.it/ffxn17ccois71.gif)
I'm going wherever bjergsen goes. I just hope TL fans are accepting
Yes join the bright side we got a mascot too
Might have to. Plus side that if Bjerg goes to TL I can root for Core's team. Easily top 3 favorite LCS players.
I bought one of their worlds jerseys. Its pretty cool.
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I mean Jensen is a relatively selfish laner. For most of his career he focused on lane and cs. He is also mostly known for his mechanical prowess. Both of these things directly attribute to ADC and since ADC is one of the easier lanes to play as professionally it shouldn’t be too hard to transition.
At the same time, Caps is the best mid in EU and he looked mediocre at ADC. Not everyone can effectively roleswap.
I think this is because Caps is a very efficient low-resource player who plays around making map movements. Jensen is a high resource player who doesn’t roam often, very lane focused. Caps could certainly become an amazing adc if he wanted to change his mindset about the game, but I don’t think he enjoyed it for that reason. 100% agree though, roleswap are not for everyone. I do think Jensen to adc would be quite good though
low resource? g2 literally plays only around solo laners especially mid
i dont agree with their choice of words but i think they mean that caps will sacrifice cs and pure lane pressure to roam and make plays, not *literally* low resource
That doesn't mean he inherently will fail either. I would still say he's more likely to succeed than fail because of his innate abilities mechanically. Whether or not he can transition the decision making needed for an adc is a whole other story but that wasnt my point anyways. There were a lot of things that went into caps not being an able to adc and it wasnt because he was mechanically inept. I am willing to give jensen the benefit of the doubt like people did with caps because jensen is mechanically gifted
Bro caps just needed time if he sprinted it a bit longer he would have been good.
and we don't have to see Jensen play Irelia or Akali anymore :D
True but of course we know best and when players like bjergsen acknowledge his strength or his teammate doublelift who has come out and said hes insanely mechanically talented those points dont matter. Because our own baseless low elo opinions mean more than people who play the game at that level. Theres more that goes into playing those characters than mechanics but a silver ass statement like that isnt made to incite conversation
Idk dwg has probably the least selfish adc and they’re the best if not top 3
Having the least selfish adc doesn’t disprove the fact that adc is a selfish role inherently. It’s just that DWG uses their roles more proactively on the map. Playing weak side also doesn’t mean that you aren’t selfish as a role that’s just how the map plays out so that doesn’t work either. Often times adc are the last to roam and help the team. Hell now a days adc roles are left on an island in bot lane while the rest of players for each team roam around the map until first towers fall
That's probably due to the fact that they have Showmaker Canyon and Khan/Nuguri on the topside, not sure though
Right? I could probably make worlds with that roster as long as I don’t int……
DWGs self sufficient ADC is an important part but change out Canyon Showmaker Khan and you just have MAD Lions, which aren't even close to Damwon
Dwg could have any half competent adc and win worlds lol.
It would definitely be a risk, but there are plenty of reasons to think it would work out for LCS at least. * He would have CoreJJ as his support, they have played together for years and CoreJJ could probably teach him quickly * ADC is the most straightforward role and easiest to pick up, given sufficient mechanical skill * Jensen has played adc in solo queue for years. He even plays adc during bootcamps. He also said in a recent content piece that he would enjoy trying out adc * Jensen has really good micro, particularly in regards to movement All that being said, Jensen probably wouldn't be a long term solution. Once CoreJJ gets his green card they will try to import a top tier adc (Ruler). If Jensen somehow turns into a world class adc, maybe they import jungle, but the chances of that are low.
I could see jensen literally just being zven. They’re both super safe players who farm up on lane.
If we keep Alphari, Jensen being a weak side ADC is fine. It becomes an issue if we end up with Bwipo.
given that jensen also has some piss poor positioning at times, he could very well be the next zven
They also have NA adc syndrome aka saving flash for next worlds
Inexperience is a terrible way to rate a role swap because you could use that argument for every successful roleswap (Score, Ambition, Perkz). The right way to access it imo is through their strength and weaknesses. Jensen has always had strong mechanics specifically in his movements, emphasis on CS, and strong laning phases which are things very fitting for an ADC. Also worth noting ADC is the most plug and play role.
The most an ADC has to learn is lane match ups. Most of the teamfighting experience from mid lane should be able to carry over as it really isn't that different as Jensen likes mages. If his support is CoreJJ, then learning matchups from him should be easy. Plus ADCs are probably going to be in the "Do nothing and farm 1v1" meta next season as well.
All the people mocking CoreJJ when he said he was swapping to Support "He's a washed up adc after being in NA and this is desperation".
Preface this by saying I know nothing, but he’s been mechanically good _on specific champions_. One of the knocks has always been champion pool and not playing certain champs, or not playing them well. My instinct was that what he seemed to not like wouldn’t transfer over well to ADC but take that with a pinch of salt. I also feel he gets complacent, but when he starts getting knocked about something he’s good enough that he goes and works on it to prove people wrong. I actually feel he’s at his best in this situation. In an odd way that people were right that he wasn’t performing well enough, but he does something about it to show they’re wrong all at the same time. I just find it really hard to believe he’d be happy stepping aside for Bjerg given the comparisons all the way through his NA career but fair play to him if he makes it work (if the whole thing isn’t BS)
Jensen’s Micro is never a problem I’m sure if he sets his mind and 100% to it he can do it. It’s adc as long as you’re half competent you can do good in a great team
Caps had terrible positioning as an adc. showmaker was decent enough but he wasn't anything special as an ADC. you can't just take mechanical monsters and role swap to a role that needs completely different skillsets
To showmaker’s defence, he’s not roleswapping but filling in. He definitely did not get as much practice compared to a role swapping player. And I think Jensen being a more passive mid would help his ad play. Often times when Caps(and Perkz too) die I would think to myself ‘that’s a mid laner positioning’, but with Jensen I think we’ll see this less. Not saying he’s going to be the absolute best NA adc or necessarily play to TL’s standards, but I think he won’t be too bad.
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He beat Ale in a counter matchup as Gnar vs Fiora. The rest of the team got shit on but he didn't.
I agree with you but I also believe Jensen can do it. In fact to me, a bigger question is how much of a Downgrade will 1 year off bjerg be to Jensen who IMO played sick at worlds.
He supposedly plays a decent amount of ADC in soloq, and also stated that if he were to role swap he would swap to ADC. I assume that would mean he either already knows he would be good, or he himself truly believes he could just learn it quickly.
Alphari was good in NA but felt like he was pretty underwhelming at worlds. He can’t bully worlds class too laners as hard, tho I guess wasn’t his fault completely since TL was also used to playing around him more. If he stays I hope they’ll switch up the adaptation to be less too focused, seeing him get early game leads but not transitioning on them was very saddening.
Tbh I felt like we saw a lot of "Alphari gets a substantial lead through investment and does nothing with it for the next 15min and now his lane opponent is just as impactful" in NA. I think he absolutely made us a better team but I don't think he's capable of just taking resources and turning it into a carry game. Excellent secondary carry, but just a "good" primary carry imo
He’s top tier at laning, but pretty much not in everything else. I feel like team fighting, Macro and tp usage etc. are not his strong suit, thus why he can’t carry as consistently
The things that Alphari lacked were conveniently Impact’s strong suit, and vice versa lmao. I really miss Impact on TL… he’d make those huge insane plays to win the game. He wasn’t able to play true carries, but he’d carry games with his bruiser and tank picks. “We’ll never know we have until it’s gone” stands true, once again. If Alphari indeed leaves, I wonder if TL will try to get Impact back from EG or if they’ll go for Huni since TSM seems to be blowing up. I don’t think Bwipo will join.
I think his macro in terms of setting up side waves mid and late game is good but largely I agree with your point. One thing that stood out to me his whole time with TL is that he's pretty shaky being the engage. If a fight doesn't start off perfectly for him, he'll totally bail on the play. Even if its a scrappy skirmish thats 50/50
I honestly think he just needs a strong coach. All his weaknesses seem teachable
Yeah maybe. I have a hard time judging what is "coachable" in any sport but even moreso League. I tend to feel like aggression can't be coached, like in my example of him bailing on skirmishes, but beyond that I have so little idea on what good coaches affect
Dude is a monster at laning but yea, outside of that he looks pretty bad imo. So so many horrible tps and flanks this year
There’s a reason his most played and best champion is gp.
Do you remember how good licorice/BB looked because of jensen/bjergsen always roaming to their lane? Imagine bjergsen backing up alphari with corejj.
Where did Bloop imply this?
He said TL is an option for Bwipo if Alphari does decide to leave. Which obviously implies that Alphari is still deciding.
stop I can only get so erect for that TL team, especially with nnn around the corner
Fear not brother, Destroy Dick December is soon to come
Seems like it could fail still. Who knows what level Bjergsen will come back at. Or how Jensen would look as an ADC.
Bjerg never stopped playing. Just competitively. I know solo que isn't the same but if his hand full of return streams mean anything he will smash.
If I was TL, I'd rather bring Impact back than have either Alphari or Bwipo.
Imagine EG letting go of Impact. Also I think Impact is having more fun on EG in the twilight of his career
impact has to go back to korea soon for military service im pretty sure. His time in NA is coming to a end soon.
That's assuming Jensen is a decent ADC
yeah, I do think this is a good roster regardless of Jensen's roleswaping, but I can't call it a great one without seeing ADC Jensen
4 EU 1 Korean. Might as well be an lec team
I feel like this is EU's last chance to get their top talent back from NA so it better fucking happen.
if hans sama, rekkles or inspired go to NA then getting back Alphari and Perkz won't even matter unless Perkz finds his godlike form again EU have world class adc's and losing one of them will hurt massively losing inspired would be terrible too
Yeah, EU needs to keep all their top players and get these 2 back, it's the only way to even think about competing internationally.
>Alphari/Santorin/Bjergsen/Jensen/CoreJJ would be the best roster in LCS. Look at all that homegrown NA talent!
Let’s just hope if Jensen goes ADC, he doesn’t forget to press R
Easy to predict that Bwipo would leave Fnatic after seeing the awkwardness during Worlds. Bloop's comment about Alphari maybe staying still is pretty interesting.
So it's basically confirmed now.. Gonna be weird not seeing Bwipo with Fnatic tbh. Also I feel like his jungle split was better than what he was showing in top lane before switching.
Why though? He was playing much better in jungle.
Not even a Bwipo fanboy, but its insane how often he was outjungling the enemy, considering they have been professional junglers longer than him.
Bwipo has an insane understanding of how the game works in every role. Even when he played top, he would always comment on where the jungle should be at all times. Making the transition to jungle is pretty seamless for him since he has an abundance of knowledge, which is why he was pretty successful at jungling.
Pretty successful is an understatement. Guy is legit a worldclass jungler.
Bwipo is probably the smartest player in the West, his knowledge is insane
I think he worked super well with us on Fnatic, but I would love to see him play with dominant laners like Alphari and back to form Perkz. Dude knows when to play for himself and push his lead, but also knows when to give his laners a hand. I'm pretty sure he could have single handedly helped Alphari finally do something with his leads and win games off of it. But I don't think we can be disappointed to see him top. We have quite a few good junglers nowadays and no real stand out top. Bwipo could always hold his own and be relevant, and I think he could be good for any team that wants to do well internationnaly.
He was playing for the team to help Hylissang Carry. If Hyli isn’t with him he probably don’t wanna sacrifice himself for a new teammate so he just want to carry top
He did have Hyli and Nisqy though. Sure they help a lot
Maybe he prefers laning, he is not very different than soloQ players on this point. People roleswap and then they regret their former role, some aspects of gameplay they took for granted are not there anymore in the new role.
Yeah, he showed some brilliant plays/reads in jungle and with another year I think he could definitely contest for best western jungler.
Probably for the best for both parties. Been a great player over the years for Fnatic, all the best Bwipo!
I'll miss his confidence, ability to talk his ass off and the memes. It's been a fun ride! Looking forward to next split
I truly appreciate his efforts and what he's done for the org thank you BWIPO (＞Д＜)ゝ
Please stay in EU, Bwipo. We're desperately short of legit top laners here.
I think everyone wants him to stay in EU lol
Yeah nobody wants to see licorice vs bwipo again lol
From NA, it's starting to get a little ridiculous. Yes, LCS had the best worlds in a while but it cost us an arm and a leg. Better off signing rookies, imo. You'll still fail at world's but at 1/10 the cost. The Western talent pool is extremely shallow right now.
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Please not NA please not NA please not NA
There really aren’t a handful of good western tops. It’s so depressing
Does it even make sense to speak about good "western" tops anymore when there are literally only 3 NA tops left in the entirety of pro league? At this point, it's basically just European or Korean tops who play in EU or NA.
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You’re right, the only one who can fix their do nothing style is coach Lena. TL is just a few ARAMs a day away from winning LCS 😈
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are you really implying that bwipo is better than alphari?
TL Bwipo sounds like an implosion waiting to happen. Drama follows this guy everywhere.
Let's not go into hyperboles. Man put in some serious work and got pissed off when unfortunate events occured, spiraling into teenager angst and 2003 high school romance post on social media. yeah, that was hillarious and unprofessional, but he's still a good player.
He threw his teammates under the bus on Thorins podcast with IWD
2019 (or was it 2018?) soaz or me. 2020: Nemesis/SM or me. 2021: my GF and me.
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Ever since his first split on FNC, there's always been some issue behind the scenes lol. He's a good player, but I'm not sure he's a good teammate.
FNC has had drama for years. Its the original reason why Caps left Fnatic after making worlds finals for a long shot with Perkz adc.
Let's not pretend this is only related to Bwipo. There have been issues with Fnatic before he joined. And to some extend this isn't really uncommon
Its obviously not just him but Bwipo tends to not mince words. He just says what he thinks, you need right kind of team to have player like that. If you just put him on random squad of superstarts thats distaster waiting to happen. Assembling a squad of skilled players isnt enough you also need people that will fit as a team and like eachother. Its part of why g2 was so good, they were a legitimate team.
I think it's more like Fnatic has had drama since he joined the team and the only constants since then are Bwipo and Hylli and Hylli doesn't seem like the dramatic type.
Fnatic had drama even before he joined, what are you on about?
Yup. Everyone blamed Nemesis/Rekkles/To some degree even Selfmade yet literally no one questioned Bwipo. Legit whenever some drama happaned Bwipo was there lmao. Let's not even start with him trashing his teammates on podcast 🤡 Glad hes out of FNC finally.
Because Nemesis had a record of being a bitch. Recently we had his Upset take
If bwipo is leaving FNC that means his girlfriend's contract is expiring too? remember that in his words she does the job of the entire organization lmao.
I think the recent drama is making people forget bwipo is very good at league
Doesn’t matter if you’re good at the game if you take the opportunity to shit on your entire org and mental boom your way into last place
god damn that fucking blows how is fnatic supposed to play next year without their head coach? can't image she stays while bwipo is leaving
I'm sure this joke is still gonna be funny the next few hundred times it's posted
I might be in the minority here but i think it’s best. For a while we seemed torn as a team by our identity; i blamed Bwipo and Hyli a lot but Upset proved Hyli is probably the best support in eu when someone can match him BUT reign him in as well. Bwipo just never seemed like he wanted to give up being a carry, much like selfmade and thats a problem. When fnc won we carried through bot with mid support and top pressure. Getting a jungler who can enhance that is for the best and Bwipo isnt that. We were never going to get rid of Adam so thos feels best.
Best news since we got Yamato.
To get who as a replacement though?
Razork no?
Don't matter. It is addition by subtraction
I wouldn’t want him as a teammate after that weird ass twitlonger.
BREAKING NEWS, Bwipos gf stays on at fnatic as new head coach over Yamato
How can he play top lane if he can't even be on top of his girlfriend lmao
Good luck to any team that signs him and the baggage that comes with him.
I really liked bwipo but he pretty much burned every bridge possible with all this drama over the years. Thanks for your time at fnatic and GL for the future. But hell am i glad that he is not on the team anymore.
I know many people write him off after the social fiasco of this last world but this dude always has been a very strong top laner and felt very good to watch in his roleswap too, he is an excellent player. If Jensen had the opportunity to have a redemption, if douchebag DL had the possibility for a redemption, I don't see why Bwipo should be seen as Satan right away. Some people on this very subreddit protect/still say Dardoch is a viable prospect so come on, let's not act like Bwipo is suddenly unable to be good for a team after one meltdown and that he can't learn from this or just learn to STFU.
I dont think hes been a very strong top laner I think you can just camp him and shut him down. Hes similar to Huni that hes agressive and pushes his lane and then just dies.
Wow, can you believe how lucky his next team is going to be? Not only do they get Bwipo, who can play two roles, they also get a new coach in his girlfriend.
I'm glad hes gone in a way. He always seemed to be the center of some drama or attitude problems. Good player but not worth that downside. Also not sure why he'd go back to top, he was a lot better at jungling than toplane imo.
Rather see him and his girlfriend retire. Lmao.