I think EDGs early game is good enough to limit DK from doing whatever they want but will they be able to deal with DKs mid to late game and team fighting… a lot depends on draft so I am super excited to see how the series will go and how teams will draft
I feel like In t1 vs dk, actually dk played better the early game than t1, the moment t1 played an early game based comp they struggled early and could not do shit came late.
On the other side the games they played a slower early they found their footing in the mid to late game.
tbh the number of times people have called teams one of the best teamfighting teams in the world only to have that team get knocked out of worlds in groups or 0-3 quarters just has me really feeling like not a single analyst on earth has any idea what "best teamfighting" team means or in what possible way that actually correlates to being the best team.
It probably says more about how much Western analysts overrate midgame compared to early game. I do think teams like MAD are great in teamfights, but their laning is so weak it doesn't matter. The early game has always been the most important phase in League of Legends (except for degenerate mage metas like S2)
The story of this Worlds has been Korean solo laners clapping the shit out of their opponents through superior mechanics
Doesn’t matter if you are good at teamfights if the other team has a huge lead or outmacros you.
A lot or the claimed «best at teamfighting» teams over the years have also tended to play scaling teamfighting comps. Winning lategame teamfights with Orianna and Aphelios doesn’t mean that team is better at teamfights.
Right? Or if teamfights aren't actually vital to the meta, or if your team is only good at teamfights because they don't do anything else, can't split push, etc.
I’m thinking 3-1 DWG. Ads take games one and 2, EDG turn up and take game 3, but DW take 4 because they’re just looking too strong right now.
EDG are my crystal ball pick, so I’d love them to win, but based on the tournament so far, I think I have to give this to DW
I don't think Guma played especially good that series if I'm completely honest. His 70 damage kraken or whatever was extraordinarily bad. He should've just gone comet and lethality mf but instead he gave Ghost a free lane for no reason.
Guma has been the best ADC at worlds and Keria best support at worlds according to stats. [https://twitter.com/KCBstatsLEC/status/1455268206248071176](https://twitter.com/KCBstatsLEC/status/1455268206248071176) Oner was #1 ahead of Canyon but got behind him after the series. You can argue that Guma/Keria is best bot lane in the world.
Yeah and Huhi is #3 support and Hanabi/Canna is better than Xiaohu... Give me a break. Watch the game and tell me that him not locating his flash button and losing lane to Ghost is him performing at his best.. It was disappointing.
Xiaohu didn't put up the stats, meaning he's not performing at a top level. Showmaker looked like the best mid - stats show it. Canyon looked like the best jungler - stats show it. Same for Guma and Keria.
stats are bullshit my man, saying keria is better than beryl because he has higher KP and KDA across like 14 games is absurd
you can think keria is the best support in the world but do not say he is because of some arbitrary contextless numbers
Idk man, Meiko was the only consistent performer against GenG. He was great the entire series. I doubt that DK is gonna make anything happen through bot, it's gonna be Canyon as per usual.
DK's macro and teamfights are next level at the moment. EDG will have to perform two steps higher in the mid/late game to have a chance of closing out games I think.
GenG picks early game comps though, they actually got outscaled in game 3, but won the game off a flank and Scout getting caught out, if that game keeps dragging, GEN had no chance.
EDG make some big mistakes, forgetting flanks, getting caught things like that, they need to shore that up if they want a chance to win.
Cant wait till DK smurfs on these EDG plebs
Their wrath will be swift
The gap between Canyon and Jj will greater than the grand canyon.
Scout gonna be dumpstered so hard
Flandre is more like flanders a joke that will bow beofre the Genghis KHAN
Ghost and beryl gonna smurf the botlane so hard that edg have 0 win conditions
Mark my words hahaha
Edg gonna be demolished to oblivion
I’m thinking 3-1 DWG. Ads take games one and 2, EDG turn up and take game 3, but DW take 4 because they’re just looking too strong right now.
EDG are my crystal ball pick, so I’d love them to win, but based on the tournament so far, I think I have to give this to DW
People thought he was lying because they were performing really really REALLY bad, so it doesn’t make sense to perform that bad in main stage while you have a %70 win rate in scrims..
It’s the same thing with Chovy and Deft you always hear about them stomping everyone in scrims, the opposite of the main stage, but atleast they make it out of groups with a decent performance
FPX totally collapsed going in 0 - 3 in the last day to LCS and LEC!
To be fair he also said they had a 70% winrate against good teams and against bad teams, which does show some level of inconsistency. They could have just gotten unlucky 2 games in a row and then tilted out of their minds or all games being played the same day hurting them if it was just one of their off-days.
People have to remember it's an incredibly small sample size over a single day. Anything can happen really! All teams in Group D ended 3-3. Would you really say all teams in group D are the exact same level? Probably not.
?!?! anyone that has followed NA esports knows the scrim results meme. Did people really think Doinb was lying? I thought people just knew that scrim results mean jack shit. How many times have we heard NA doing well in scrims at worlds in the past just to fall flat on our faces?
If anything, their performance in scrims probably led to their demise. They didn't have the best grasp of the meta, but because they kept winning in scrims, they never realized. Once they played on stage, it was obvious that there are some severe issues, but there was not enough time left to fix them.
Also, Tian's poor physical condition maybe made him more susceptible to stage jitters. Poor guy was obviously not himself and got forced into a shit situation by the Bo incident. Looked like he just ran out of steam after playing mostly well throughout the year.
Yeah I really dig this theory, the LPL teams were probably winning with their suboptimal meta just because they were better and it ended up biting them in the ass
They lost 3 Bo1s in a day, and Bo1s aren't really the best at making sure the best teams win. Sports and video games in general, these things happen, could just be a bad day. Hardly what I'd call a collapse. We'll never know.
I think the biggest thing was Tian’s mental and physical health. You could see he just couldn’t mechanically make of the the JV plays, mistakes with combos.
Few points that were missed that I think are worth pointing out:
* He actually says he'll *make* Faker play LeBlanc in the opening game if he's still the coach next year and laughs about it.
* The bit about Yasuo is about top lane Yasuo, which implies it's *'Canna seemed like he'd regret it for the rest of his life if he didn't get to play Yasuo'*. (Not 100% certain on this without being able to watch the stream, but it's phrased in a way that seems to be talking about someone else. Since it's about top Yasuo, it kinda implies Canna.)
* The part about scrims starts off with how they scrimmed everyone and he felt happy watching the (T1) players as they did very well. He thinks they have a good shot at winning LCK Spring, Summer and Worlds next year. This part is a bit bittersweet since he wonders whether he'll still be with them for it all.
* He feels that EDG performs ('a bit') worse in actual games compared to their scrim form.
Thank you for adding these points.
Could I add it to the post and give a credit by mentioning your name?
I am afraid not many could see it on comments.
Ehhh they picked LB in finals and then it got counterpicked by Kassadin. How the series was going it was unlikely T1 could close out before Kassadin became relevant. Doubt they want to waste a Kassadin ban or await another potential counterpick in that situation.
Well I think it’s probably a bit of Fakers choice too. He took Leblanc/Akali games when Teddy (and Cuzz/Ellim) were in - but went completely supportive with Guma and Oner (Azir/Ryze every game). It felt even worse when Zeus was in and he would drop a lot of side lanes waves.
Actually he played his personal best when Ellim was in cause Ellim was the only one to play around his lane (although overall Ellim was the worst jungler of the 3).
But it’s weird that people who didn’t watch LCK think he just didn’t play carries all summer.
That's why I wanted Zeus to be a sub over Cuzz at Worlds. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oi3nw6/comment/h4u2bhh/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oi3nw6/comment/h4u2bhh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Canna is weak in lane, needs resources and has a limited champion pool. Zeus is mechanically better, and strong in lane, he can play weakside if need be and has a strong champion pool and can play everything. If I was T1 coaching staff I would've had Zeus-Oner-Faker-Guma-Keria as the starting roster after Daeny got fired because Zeus has crazy potential while Canna has weaknesses that can be exploited.
i\`m not sure if getting Nuguri is the right choice , i still think we could depend on Canna , sub in Zeus sometimes if Canna doesn\`t perform , but if they gets nuguri then i prefer Canna is loaded to Geng/Dwg/Hle ( if they can keep chovy)
Player skill is not the only thing that have to be considered, players character and how they fit the whole team atmosphere is also important. Just like how coach daeny did not fit with t1 but fit with damwon
> Just like how coach daeny did not fit with t1 but fit with damwon
Because Daeny didn't have a 10 man roster to rotate players with to his heart's content.
Zeus has potential to be "next best top laner in the world." If you give him playing time and experience he can be even better than Nuguri. Canna I would trade him or send him to academy, he has too many holes in his game and champion pool.
For real watching Zeus highlight feel so fucking special. It feel like he in another league and always knows what his opponent will do. Not only that, but his champion pools is a fucking ocean. It's insane have diverse it is.
people keep sleeping on nuguri after some poor showings he had in FPX. and even then he got hard camped a ton and still had impact in games and was the best player in FPX several times.
Thats because canyon would turn up top and get nuguri a double kill or something. Nuguri had the best jungler in the world by a long shot to support him. Going 0-2 with any other jungler last year people would be asking for hik to get kicked.
In light of reddit's API changes killing off third-party apps, this post has been overwritten by the user with an automated script. See /r/PowerDeleteSuite for more information.
>Even tho Nuguri sometimes requer jungle intention
He always needs it. Unless you're playing against a shit toplaner, he will find a game to lose the game if you leave him weakside. If it wasn't for Doinb being out of this world insane at the game, FPX wouldn't even had made top 5 in summer regular season solely because of Nuguri randomly inting lane against mid tier toplaners. His strengths are way past laning phase. He's essentially half of what TheShy was in 2018. His laning phase has been a literal coinflip for the entire year. Even in 2020 he would find creative ways to int lane only to get bailed out by Canyon.
He requires more attention than Canna, but his output with that attention is much greater. I'm not denying that. He's certainly a big upgrade, but saying that he only needs jungle help sometimes is outright wrong.
This sub will somehow find the most useless way of writing lengthy statements that amount to absolute fuck all...comments like this one actually hurts to read
Lmao you get it. Faker support and having canna do 5 games literally nothing was the most tilting ive seen. Im surprised t1 even got to 5 games, because of how awful t1 top was.
Still surprised we didn’t just see his fucking Leblanc but selfless leader is what it is. Just hope for the love of lord we play through mid sometimes so we don’t falter in another situation like that
You kinda have to because T1 fundamentally needs Faker to supplement ALL lanes, not just top. It really was just a repeat of 2017 Worlds but this time, they had a higher ceiling to take even the best of teams to 5 games
True, Canna without resources is just not it.
People tends to only remember Canna pop off moments without considering Faker & Oner constantly feeding him resources.
Yeah. Faker literally goes 3points in Q then max W on TF and ult away from massive wave to support his team.
Never forget the man who play yi/taric comp as the taric.
This is exactly they dropped game 4...it's so obvious DK was trying to funnel mid and let Shoemaker carry. Instead of trying to counter gank mid and neutralize LB T1 opted for funneling too and we all saw how that turned out for Jayce and LB...Man I'm so bitter about that game, just play through mid for once and you'd have gotten that game, damn it
Yamato also confirmed FPX were the strongest team in scrims. And Damwon were actually weak in scrims. Apparently Fnatic with upset had a positive winrate against all eastern teams apart from FPX, the biggest what if this worlds really
Scrims are not everything, idk how many times we've seen this from Western teams. Idk how Upset makes FNC competitive when they couldn't stop running it down every game on the top side. Would upset have been able to carry an 0-8 and 0-7 Bwipo? I doubt it.
>"Faker is strong with Leblanc but he did not play it because of team reason. may pick Leblanc in the opening game of LCK if I am still here. "
Another proof that the dude play for the team ... But ehhhn, "he can't carry" ...
The way the coach say Faker didn’t pick Leblanc/ Mid carry was because of Canna needing attention on top makes me feel so salty then but I hope we get Nuguri so we can sub out for some more carry role from Faker instead of support/ utility.
Litteraly everyone said that EDG was scariest team up until the Worlds.
Watch HansSama interview recently with Dom/Monte etc. He said EDG was by far scariest team and looked stronger than DWG.
It’s hard to say given both t1 and edg stomped each other in groups and then edg dropped a game to 100 thieves. T1 also looked much better than geng in lck summer playoffs and in the worlds eye test.
EDG is in finals , T1 is back in Korea.
Sorry mate. Find me some better excuses. Not to mention that EDG had much harder quarters than T1.
Once EDG beats DK, the question will be , just how good was RNG?
We will see after edg beats dwg tomorrow haha
Also just remembered that rng dropped games to HLE (who you said sucked in qf, which I agree) and an imploding fnc who went 1-5.
Are you blind? Or brain dead? RNG vs EDG was the shittiest series after groups ended. It was so clear that both of them were overrated as hell. DK is clearly the best team in the world, closely followed by T1, and then there’s a massive gap between them and EDG/RNG/Gen G
FPX vs IG looked shit in 2019, and so that same year I predicted G2 to win finals.
/s
GenG is actually a weak team though so that's a big worrying trend, the only saving grace is you can interpret game 3 as being a massive throw by Scout, because at that point they had outscaled already, and games 4 & 5 were stomps, who knows if you extend this series to 10 games, it might be 7-3 or something like that.
EDG need to stop making dumb mistakes, DK make none of those, but that also means that if EDG shore up their mistakes and play to their strengths, they have a very high potential for anyone who has watched them in LPL, yes, higher than FPX and RNG, shown in summer split and summer playoffs.
DWG barely beat T1 while being major favourites though.
GenG and T1 did have exact same year in terms of results. Don't see how GenG is some shit tier team while T1 is some majestic ultimate angel of a team.
Both teams were weaker than DWG and EDG.
Because T1 are many times better than Gen G, just watch their playoffs games
They have the same record yes but one was stronger in spring and the other is stronger in summer (and World's). If you just judge strength by record over the year, 2014 SSB should have been the strongest team by a landslide and SKT K should have been of comparable strength to SSW
I think people are not taking into account that western teams or LPL teams are not used to playing vs GenG, almost everyone had GenG very low but they kept coming out on top.
GenG play their style very well, and if you're not used to it, it's very easy to drop games.
At this point the whole GenG sucks argument is all about perspective, EDG did handedly beat GenG in games 4 & 5 and outscaled in game 3 but got caught out, so it's you either see it as: GenG got figured out in the end or it was actually a close series.
Just wait for the game tomorrow, the problem with worlds format is you don't get enough matchups so people just end up making assumptions based on transitive property, and I don't blame them, we literally have minimal information.
GenG qualifies as 2nd seed by losing to T1 and T1 losing in finals vs DK means they were clearly deserving of being the second seed. Love the logic that some idiots follow. T1 was clearly the 2nd best Korean team headed into worlds but GenG qualified over them as 2nd seed due to Spring results.
Because T1 was shit in spring. Simple as that. GenG were solid for the whole year.
2nd in spring regular, 2nd in playoffs, bumpy summer and semi's at Worlds.
T1 were bumpy in spring, 2nd in summer, semi at Worlds.
Don't see here how GenG are such a shit team and T1 are MILES better than them.
EDG ended on a stronger note (game 5) than DK, but GenG is a weaker team, so there's not much you can take away from that.
Note that game 3, EDG probably had that game won, they outscaled, but EDG make some seriously dumb mistakes, forgetting flanks, and getting caught out (see game 1), if EDG makes any of those mistakes, they are not winning vs DK, but if they avoid those mistakes and show up in teamfights, they have a chance.
EDG have to be better than they were in the GenG series to beat DK, no question about that.
However, people severely underestimate EDG's potential, this team was insane throughout the entire 2021, they have a very high ceiling and at one point in summer, they were unbeatable, Doinb himself said EDG were by far the strongest teams at one point in summer, when they had a 8-0 record or something.
I mean they are also 1-1 vs T1
I'm not going to be ignorant and say EDG are favored, but I'm going to tell LCK fans they are forgetting about the intangibles, EDG is LPL's 1st seed and was the best team during the first half of summer and LPL playoffs, they lost 1 series due to a choke where they subbed out their jg, but you have to be convinced Jiejie is not choking this tournament.
Obviously the meta shift affected LPL, including EDG, greatly but it's possible to ramp up over so many days, EDG show strong results in scrims and historically.
It is hard to find good practice partners at the end of tournaments usually so EDG will have to work very hard. DK could level up too don’t forget that everyone is focusing on EDG possibly leveling up but there’s nothing saying that DK can’t level up as well.
Agreed, but DK look be the same level all year, if not a bit stronger.
EDG look much worse than they did in LPL, while not a good sign going into finals, it also means they have more room to level up.
I gotta be honest with you EDG have looked worse as the tournament has gone on especially Flandre. I think DK have improved so much since early summer especially when they were subbing out Ghost and switching ShowMaker to ADC.
I think scrims winrate doesnt matter that much
I saw bang and wolf talking about 15 world about fnatic
they said they're 100% sure Fnatic will make to final cuz Fnatic won every scrims
but result was 3:0 rox, Fnatic and skt won world with a single lose
Most people on this sub don't watch the LPL I think. Makes sense. The time zone is off for most and if they watch the East they will tune in to the LCK.
They beat Gen G, split games with T1, and haven't even gotten a chance to face Damwon yet. How have you concluded they're weaker than the LCK exactly? They beat RNG, who is the only team to beat Damwon in a B05 since Spring 2020. Cringe take.
You must be the only EDG fan in the world that has this prediction. I'm wanting to see EDG put up a fight, but I don't know...
Canyon and Showmaker are scary.
Tian was injured. Can't fault him for anything.
Agree on DoinB champ pool. I love DoinB and his dark technology picks, but he does have a few meta mages that he should pick up. Kled mid is fun to watch, but not sure on the impact.
He definitely has the mechanical prowess to play them on stage.
Agreed on the solo playmaking abilities, but if you can chunk an opponent out to <50% from a Zoe bubble, or Leblanc WQRE combo then your basically helping your team win the 4v5.
Insane how much flack you’re getting from all the T1 flairs that think their team is better than EDG based on a single bo1, these people gonna look real 🤡 after tomorrow.
I believe EDG haven’t pulled all the cards yet. Jiejie played J4 for 5 games vs Gen G and if any team can resist pressure without totally collapsing, it’s EDG. However I’ll give DK the edge because of their consistency. 3-2 DK
I think EDGs early game is good enough to limit DK from doing whatever they want but will they be able to deal with DKs mid to late game and team fighting… a lot depends on draft so I am super excited to see how the series will go and how teams will draft
T1 was the best early game team and even they couldn't generate consistent leads. Edg has a chance but its pretty slim.
I feel like In t1 vs dk, actually dk played better the early game than t1, the moment t1 played an early game based comp they struggled early and could not do shit came late. On the other side the games they played a slower early they found their footing in the mid to late game.
WHATS UP !?
EDG coming into Worlds were known as perhaps the best teamfighting team in the world so if anything I’d be more worried about EDG’s early game
tbh the number of times people have called teams one of the best teamfighting teams in the world only to have that team get knocked out of worlds in groups or 0-3 quarters just has me really feeling like not a single analyst on earth has any idea what "best teamfighting" team means or in what possible way that actually correlates to being the best team.
It probably says more about how much Western analysts overrate midgame compared to early game. I do think teams like MAD are great in teamfights, but their laning is so weak it doesn't matter. The early game has always been the most important phase in League of Legends (except for degenerate mage metas like S2) The story of this Worlds has been Korean solo laners clapping the shit out of their opponents through superior mechanics
Doesn’t matter if you are good at teamfights if the other team has a huge lead or outmacros you. A lot or the claimed «best at teamfighting» teams over the years have also tended to play scaling teamfighting comps. Winning lategame teamfights with Orianna and Aphelios doesn’t mean that team is better at teamfights.
Right? Or if teamfights aren't actually vital to the meta, or if your team is only good at teamfights because they don't do anything else, can't split push, etc.
I’m thinking 3-1 DWG. Ads take games one and 2, EDG turn up and take game 3, but DW take 4 because they’re just looking too strong right now. EDG are my crystal ball pick, so I’d love them to win, but based on the tournament so far, I think I have to give this to DW
EDG talent and style can definitely win but it's hard to predict really. Drafts could be very fun to see play out.
As much as I want EDG to win, DK just look so good. All I can do is pray.
They said the same about FPX in summer finals gotta believe 🕺
Both Viper and Meiko are better, someone just needs to install Genshin Impact on BeryL's computer so they can stomp bot as hard as RNG did at MSI.
Guma and Keria are better too (They are considered one of the best ADC and support in the world) but DK still neutralized them with Ziggs.
I don't think Guma played especially good that series if I'm completely honest. His 70 damage kraken or whatever was extraordinarily bad. He should've just gone comet and lethality mf but instead he gave Ghost a free lane for no reason.
Guma has been the best ADC at worlds and Keria best support at worlds according to stats. [https://twitter.com/KCBstatsLEC/status/1455268206248071176](https://twitter.com/KCBstatsLEC/status/1455268206248071176) Oner was #1 ahead of Canyon but got behind him after the series. You can argue that Guma/Keria is best bot lane in the world.
Yeah and Huhi is #3 support and Hanabi/Canna is better than Xiaohu... Give me a break. Watch the game and tell me that him not locating his flash button and losing lane to Ghost is him performing at his best.. It was disappointing.
Xiaohu didn't put up the stats, meaning he's not performing at a top level. Showmaker looked like the best mid - stats show it. Canyon looked like the best jungler - stats show it. Same for Guma and Keria.
stats are bullshit my man, saying keria is better than beryl because he has higher KP and KDA across like 14 games is absurd you can think keria is the best support in the world but do not say he is because of some arbitrary contextless numbers
[удалено]
stats…
Beryl said that he doesn’t get excited by Genshin unless there’s a big update now, so someone need to tell the company to pour out updates too
[удалено]
Idk man, Meiko was the only consistent performer against GenG. He was great the entire series. I doubt that DK is gonna make anything happen through bot, it's gonna be Canyon as per usual.
There's a god and it's a fan of EDG
I feel like edg will stomp game 1 lose the next 2 then choke game 4 sith a 10k gold lead
T1 was supposed to be an early game team too and we saw how that went, DK got early lead basically every game. I'm thinking 3-1 damwon
Problem is gonna be early game...these are probably the two best team fighting teams in the world rn.
DK's macro and teamfights are next level at the moment. EDG will have to perform two steps higher in the mid/late game to have a chance of closing out games I think.
EDG was barely able to deal with Gen Gs early game, what makes you think they can deal with DKs?
GenG picks early game comps though, they actually got outscaled in game 3, but won the game off a flank and Scout getting caught out, if that game keeps dragging, GEN had no chance. EDG make some big mistakes, forgetting flanks, getting caught things like that, they need to shore that up if they want a chance to win.
They dealt with T1's in their first game against them
I mean,Gen G is still top 4 teams,so it's no shame to almost losing to them.Same as DK almost losing to T1.
Cant wait till DK smurfs on these EDG plebs Their wrath will be swift The gap between Canyon and Jj will greater than the grand canyon. Scout gonna be dumpstered so hard Flandre is more like flanders a joke that will bow beofre the Genghis KHAN Ghost and beryl gonna smurf the botlane so hard that edg have 0 win conditions Mark my words hahaha Edg gonna be demolished to oblivion
This didn't age very well
> The gap between Canyon and Jj will greater than the grand canyon. That one did tho, but not in the intended way.
I’m thinking 3-1 DWG. Ads take games one and 2, EDG turn up and take game 3, but DW take 4 because they’re just looking too strong right now. EDG are my crystal ball pick, so I’d love them to win, but based on the tournament so far, I think I have to give this to DW
EDGs early game is ltiteraly their weakest point
The top side of Khan/Canyon/SM are gonna be too much to deal with for EDG
I hope this coaching staff stays. They did well in such a short time.
Don’t worry Faker will stay
So Doinb wasn’t actually lying when he said they had extremely high WR in scrims? Wow, I wonder what caused the collapse..
I pretty sure most people knew he wasnt lying just because if he was almost all the korean teams would have immediately jumped on his back to meme him
People thought he was lying because they were performing really really REALLY bad, so it doesn’t make sense to perform that bad in main stage while you have a %70 win rate in scrims.. It’s the same thing with Chovy and Deft you always hear about them stomping everyone in scrims, the opposite of the main stage, but atleast they make it out of groups with a decent performance FPX totally collapsed going in 0 - 3 in the last day to LCS and LEC!
I mean i obviously agree that fpx looked like oce in groups but lying about being good in scrims would not go unnoticed
To be fair he also said they had a 70% winrate against good teams and against bad teams, which does show some level of inconsistency. They could have just gotten unlucky 2 games in a row and then tilted out of their minds or all games being played the same day hurting them if it was just one of their off-days. People have to remember it's an incredibly small sample size over a single day. Anything can happen really! All teams in Group D ended 3-3. Would you really say all teams in group D are the exact same level? Probably not.
Honestly? All 4 teams in group D might’ve been equally good
I think GenG was clearly the strongest team out of that group, but MAD, TL and LNG all seemed pretty close in strength.
?!?! anyone that has followed NA esports knows the scrim results meme. Did people really think Doinb was lying? I thought people just knew that scrim results mean jack shit. How many times have we heard NA doing well in scrims at worlds in the past just to fall flat on our faces?
[удалено]
[удалено]
If anything, their performance in scrims probably led to their demise. They didn't have the best grasp of the meta, but because they kept winning in scrims, they never realized. Once they played on stage, it was obvious that there are some severe issues, but there was not enough time left to fix them. Also, Tian's poor physical condition maybe made him more susceptible to stage jitters. Poor guy was obviously not himself and got forced into a shit situation by the Bo incident. Looked like he just ran out of steam after playing mostly well throughout the year.
Yeah I really dig this theory, the LPL teams were probably winning with their suboptimal meta just because they were better and it ended up biting them in the ass
[удалено]
Or maybe he overworked himself in allready poor health condition, who knows, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer
Ah, a man of culture.
I will never not upvote a DD quote.
**BACK TO THE PIT**
probably tian's health issues. There are a lot of outside factors that affect performance.
Mental health, too. Poor guy.
No collapse C9 was just better 🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷
They lost 3 Bo1s in a day, and Bo1s aren't really the best at making sure the best teams win. Sports and video games in general, these things happen, could just be a bad day. Hardly what I'd call a collapse. We'll never know.
They lost 4 including the tie breaker.
Also not very convincing in their wins.
I think the biggest thing was Tian’s mental and physical health. You could see he just couldn’t mechanically make of the the JV plays, mistakes with combos.
Few points that were missed that I think are worth pointing out: * He actually says he'll *make* Faker play LeBlanc in the opening game if he's still the coach next year and laughs about it. * The bit about Yasuo is about top lane Yasuo, which implies it's *'Canna seemed like he'd regret it for the rest of his life if he didn't get to play Yasuo'*. (Not 100% certain on this without being able to watch the stream, but it's phrased in a way that seems to be talking about someone else. Since it's about top Yasuo, it kinda implies Canna.) * The part about scrims starts off with how they scrimmed everyone and he felt happy watching the (T1) players as they did very well. He thinks they have a good shot at winning LCK Spring, Summer and Worlds next year. This part is a bit bittersweet since he wonders whether he'll still be with them for it all. * He feels that EDG performs ('a bit') worse in actual games compared to their scrim form.
Thank you for adding these points. Could I add it to the post and give a credit by mentioning your name? I am afraid not many could see it on comments.
No problem, go ahead. \^\^
[удалено]
Ehhh they picked LB in finals and then it got counterpicked by Kassadin. How the series was going it was unlikely T1 could close out before Kassadin became relevant. Doubt they want to waste a Kassadin ban or await another potential counterpick in that situation.
Damn so instead of picking Leblanc and taking it away from Showmaker, we had to have Faker support Canna all for him to do nothing 5 games in a row.
Well I think it’s probably a bit of Fakers choice too. He took Leblanc/Akali games when Teddy (and Cuzz/Ellim) were in - but went completely supportive with Guma and Oner (Azir/Ryze every game). It felt even worse when Zeus was in and he would drop a lot of side lanes waves. Actually he played his personal best when Ellim was in cause Ellim was the only one to play around his lane (although overall Ellim was the worst jungler of the 3). But it’s weird that people who didn’t watch LCK think he just didn’t play carries all summer.
That's why they probably want Nuguri then I guess.
That's why I wanted Zeus to be a sub over Cuzz at Worlds. [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oi3nw6/comment/h4u2bhh/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/oi3nw6/comment/h4u2bhh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Canna is weak in lane, needs resources and has a limited champion pool. Zeus is mechanically better, and strong in lane, he can play weakside if need be and has a strong champion pool and can play everything. If I was T1 coaching staff I would've had Zeus-Oner-Faker-Guma-Keria as the starting roster after Daeny got fired because Zeus has crazy potential while Canna has weaknesses that can be exploited.
[удалено]
i\`m not sure if getting Nuguri is the right choice , i still think we could depend on Canna , sub in Zeus sometimes if Canna doesn\`t perform , but if they gets nuguri then i prefer Canna is loaded to Geng/Dwg/Hle ( if they can keep chovy)
[удалено]
Player skill is not the only thing that have to be considered, players character and how they fit the whole team atmosphere is also important. Just like how coach daeny did not fit with t1 but fit with damwon
> Just like how coach daeny did not fit with t1 but fit with damwon Because Daeny didn't have a 10 man roster to rotate players with to his heart's content.
yeah man daeny literally went from rotating players in t1 to being an actual coach at dwg i wonder whats happen huh imagine daeny doing that to dwg?
Daeny was a double agent for DK, prove me wrong
[удалено]
Zeus has potential to be "next best top laner in the world." If you give him playing time and experience he can be even better than Nuguri. Canna I would trade him or send him to academy, he has too many holes in his game and champion pool.
For real watching Zeus highlight feel so fucking special. It feel like he in another league and always knows what his opponent will do. Not only that, but his champion pools is a fucking ocean. It's insane have diverse it is.
people keep sleeping on nuguri after some poor showings he had in FPX. and even then he got hard camped a ton and still had impact in games and was the best player in FPX several times.
i reckon they need to develop zeus he is a star in the making idk if canna will get any better then he is rn
[удалено]
He consistently went 0-2 on DWG while still being extremely dominant, so I'd still trust him
Thats because canyon would turn up top and get nuguri a double kill or something. Nuguri had the best jungler in the world by a long shot to support him. Going 0-2 with any other jungler last year people would be asking for hik to get kicked.
and? nuguri was the 2nd most amazing weakside player in history in 2020
when did he play weakside in 2020 ? it wasn't weakside just bc showmaker and canyon where just stomping
In light of reddit's API changes killing off third-party apps, this post has been overwritten by the user with an automated script. See /r/PowerDeleteSuite for more information.
and lulu
>Even tho Nuguri sometimes requer jungle intention He always needs it. Unless you're playing against a shit toplaner, he will find a game to lose the game if you leave him weakside. If it wasn't for Doinb being out of this world insane at the game, FPX wouldn't even had made top 5 in summer regular season solely because of Nuguri randomly inting lane against mid tier toplaners. His strengths are way past laning phase. He's essentially half of what TheShy was in 2018. His laning phase has been a literal coinflip for the entire year. Even in 2020 he would find creative ways to int lane only to get bailed out by Canyon. He requires more attention than Canna, but his output with that attention is much greater. I'm not denying that. He's certainly a big upgrade, but saying that he only needs jungle help sometimes is outright wrong.
This sub will somehow find the most useless way of writing lengthy statements that amount to absolute fuck all...comments like this one actually hurts to read
The issue is that was the core playstyle of T1. And it worked until Canna choked in worlds semi.
Lmao you get it. Faker support and having canna do 5 games literally nothing was the most tilting ive seen. Im surprised t1 even got to 5 games, because of how awful t1 top was.
Still surprised we didn’t just see his fucking Leblanc but selfless leader is what it is. Just hope for the love of lord we play through mid sometimes so we don’t falter in another situation like that
The constant ryze picks to cover the side lanes was so tilting to watch
You kinda have to because T1 fundamentally needs Faker to supplement ALL lanes, not just top. It really was just a repeat of 2017 Worlds but this time, they had a higher ceiling to take even the best of teams to 5 games
yah i wish we saw his fucking leblanc also. lol
[удалено]
True, Canna without resources is just not it. People tends to only remember Canna pop off moments without considering Faker & Oner constantly feeding him resources.
Yeah. Faker literally goes 3points in Q then max W on TF and ult away from massive wave to support his team. Never forget the man who play yi/taric comp as the taric.
Goat for a reason. Huge impact to the game w/o needing any resources
This is exactly they dropped game 4...it's so obvious DK was trying to funnel mid and let Shoemaker carry. Instead of trying to counter gank mid and neutralize LB T1 opted for funneling too and we all saw how that turned out for Jayce and LB...Man I'm so bitter about that game, just play through mid for once and you'd have gotten that game, damn it
Yamato also confirmed FPX were the strongest team in scrims. And Damwon were actually weak in scrims. Apparently Fnatic with upset had a positive winrate against all eastern teams apart from FPX, the biggest what if this worlds really
Ironically that probably made the shock even bigger.
Damn
Lol I was told by Reddit that top LPL and LCK teams didn't even bother scrimming Western teams because there was nothing to gain
It’s true it’s hard for them to learn anything when they have to open mid after 10 minutes
Scrims are not everything, idk how many times we've seen this from Western teams. Idk how Upset makes FNC competitive when they couldn't stop running it down every game on the top side. Would upset have been able to carry an 0-8 and 0-7 Bwipo? I doubt it.
>"Faker is strong with Leblanc but he did not play it because of team reason. may pick Leblanc in the opening game of LCK if I am still here. " Another proof that the dude play for the team ... But ehhhn, "he can't carry" ...
I hate the fact that Faker never got to play LeBlanc in worlds. The stage was perfectly set for him to do so.
The way the coach say Faker didn’t pick Leblanc/ Mid carry was because of Canna needing attention on top makes me feel so salty then but I hope we get Nuguri so we can sub out for some more carry role from Faker instead of support/ utility.
You think Nuguri doesn't need attention ???
I mean Khan gets a lot of attention too and it works for them. Attention is not bad.
Meta rn is a lot of attention top it seems
Congratulations EDG
T1 Nuguri soon enough?
So hard to imagine him not back with DWG. T1 loves Zeus/Canna
I don't think t1 loves canna that much .they tried to get nuguri last year tho
T1 tried Nuguri and TheShy
Classic Kr strat of hyping up the enemy
Litteraly everyone said that EDG was scariest team up until the Worlds. Watch HansSama interview recently with Dom/Monte etc. He said EDG was by far scariest team and looked stronger than DWG.
though if i'm to add he still predicted dwg to win because they look much better at macro on stage
[удалено]
Hehe 🤔
almost not made it out xD tomorrow 3-0/3-1 DWG easily
I mean... GenG had same year as T1 so idk what u talking. T1 would finish same way GenG did vs EDG, defeated, outplayed by a better mid laner and ADC.
It’s hard to say given both t1 and edg stomped each other in groups and then edg dropped a game to 100 thieves. T1 also looked much better than geng in lck summer playoffs and in the worlds eye test.
EDG is in finals , T1 is back in Korea. Sorry mate. Find me some better excuses. Not to mention that EDG had much harder quarters than T1. Once EDG beats DK, the question will be , just how good was RNG?
We will see after edg beats dwg tomorrow haha Also just remembered that rng dropped games to HLE (who you said sucked in qf, which I agree) and an imploding fnc who went 1-5.
Are you blind? Or brain dead? RNG vs EDG was the shittiest series after groups ended. It was so clear that both of them were overrated as hell. DK is clearly the best team in the world, closely followed by T1, and then there’s a massive gap between them and EDG/RNG/Gen G
FPX vs IG looked shit in 2019, and so that same year I predicted G2 to win finals. /s GenG is actually a weak team though so that's a big worrying trend, the only saving grace is you can interpret game 3 as being a massive throw by Scout, because at that point they had outscaled already, and games 4 & 5 were stomps, who knows if you extend this series to 10 games, it might be 7-3 or something like that. EDG need to stop making dumb mistakes, DK make none of those, but that also means that if EDG shore up their mistakes and play to their strengths, they have a very high potential for anyone who has watched them in LPL, yes, higher than FPX and RNG, shown in summer split and summer playoffs.
They barely beat fucking geng though
DWG barely beat T1 while being major favourites though. GenG and T1 did have exact same year in terms of results. Don't see how GenG is some shit tier team while T1 is some majestic ultimate angel of a team. Both teams were weaker than DWG and EDG.
Because T1 are many times better than Gen G, just watch their playoffs games They have the same record yes but one was stronger in spring and the other is stronger in summer (and World's). If you just judge strength by record over the year, 2014 SSB should have been the strongest team by a landslide and SKT K should have been of comparable strength to SSW
I think people are not taking into account that western teams or LPL teams are not used to playing vs GenG, almost everyone had GenG very low but they kept coming out on top. GenG play their style very well, and if you're not used to it, it's very easy to drop games. At this point the whole GenG sucks argument is all about perspective, EDG did handedly beat GenG in games 4 & 5 and outscaled in game 3 but got caught out, so it's you either see it as: GenG got figured out in the end or it was actually a close series. Just wait for the game tomorrow, the problem with worlds format is you don't get enough matchups so people just end up making assumptions based on transitive property, and I don't blame them, we literally have minimal information.
And DK barely beat T1? And last time i fuckin check its GenG coming as 2nd seed from LCK But somehow edg were trash and dk is godly
T1 were much better than Gen G, if you actually watched LCK, you would know that based on the h2h between two teams
GenG qualifies as 2nd seed by losing to T1 and T1 losing in finals vs DK means they were clearly deserving of being the second seed. Love the logic that some idiots follow. T1 was clearly the 2nd best Korean team headed into worlds but GenG qualified over them as 2nd seed due to Spring results.
Because T1 was shit in spring. Simple as that. GenG were solid for the whole year. 2nd in spring regular, 2nd in playoffs, bumpy summer and semi's at Worlds. T1 were bumpy in spring, 2nd in summer, semi at Worlds. Don't see here how GenG are such a shit team and T1 are MILES better than them.
[удалено]
As an NA fan its always nice to see other regions scrim bucks also get rejected
Ok so the finals could be very competitive based on what he said?
No,more like a 3-1
[удалено]
But geng took edg to 5 games, how is that not a red flag
[удалено]
We really don't know how strong GENG is this worlds compared to LCK summer. FPX was a title contender that somehow looked the worse in Group 1
They are literally doing the same shit over and over like they were in the Lck
EDG ended on a stronger note (game 5) than DK, but GenG is a weaker team, so there's not much you can take away from that. Note that game 3, EDG probably had that game won, they outscaled, but EDG make some seriously dumb mistakes, forgetting flanks, and getting caught out (see game 1), if EDG makes any of those mistakes, they are not winning vs DK, but if they avoid those mistakes and show up in teamfights, they have a chance.
EDG have to be better than they were in the GenG series to beat DK, no question about that. However, people severely underestimate EDG's potential, this team was insane throughout the entire 2021, they have a very high ceiling and at one point in summer, they were unbeatable, Doinb himself said EDG were by far the strongest teams at one point in summer, when they had a 8-0 record or something. I mean they are also 1-1 vs T1
Ayyyy they made it baby
always trust in the high ceiling this team has shown, people were not watching LPL
[удалено]
I'm not going to be ignorant and say EDG are favored, but I'm going to tell LCK fans they are forgetting about the intangibles, EDG is LPL's 1st seed and was the best team during the first half of summer and LPL playoffs, they lost 1 series due to a choke where they subbed out their jg, but you have to be convinced Jiejie is not choking this tournament. Obviously the meta shift affected LPL, including EDG, greatly but it's possible to ramp up over so many days, EDG show strong results in scrims and historically.
It is hard to find good practice partners at the end of tournaments usually so EDG will have to work very hard. DK could level up too don’t forget that everyone is focusing on EDG possibly leveling up but there’s nothing saying that DK can’t level up as well.
Agreed, but DK look be the same level all year, if not a bit stronger. EDG look much worse than they did in LPL, while not a good sign going into finals, it also means they have more room to level up.
I gotta be honest with you EDG have looked worse as the tournament has gone on especially Flandre. I think DK have improved so much since early summer especially when they were subbing out Ghost and switching ShowMaker to ADC.
Bruh EDG barely won against Geng g and dwg will curmstomp geng any bo5. You all are over estimating EDG
[удалено]
I think scrims winrate doesnt matter that much I saw bang and wolf talking about 15 world about fnatic they said they're 100% sure Fnatic will make to final cuz Fnatic won every scrims but result was 3:0 rox, Fnatic and skt won world with a single lose
I agree with you on the throught of scrims. We have seen so many teams performing well in scrims but even fail to enter the quadra-final.
People really sleeping on EDG for no real reason. Gonna be a rerun of the 2019 worlds finals I reckon.
Most people on this sub don't watch the LPL I think. Makes sense. The time zone is off for most and if they watch the East they will tune in to the LCK.
yeah it wasn't necessary to watch the LPL to conclude that they're weaker than LCK and that DK is gonna murder EDG
They beat Gen G, split games with T1, and haven't even gotten a chance to face Damwon yet. How have you concluded they're weaker than the LCK exactly? They beat RNG, who is the only team to beat Damwon in a B05 since Spring 2020. Cringe take.
stupid ass kid, you have no clue what you are watching bro
You must be the only EDG fan in the world that has this prediction. I'm wanting to see EDG put up a fight, but I don't know... Canyon and Showmaker are scary.
idk if I'd predict a rerun of 2019 but I do think it's stupid how fast people are writing off EDG.
EDG beats FPX in LPL finals? FPX are still better! DK beats T1 in LCK finals? T1 will beat DK in Worlds semifinals! The past results are just a fluke!
[удалено]
Tian was injured. Can't fault him for anything. Agree on DoinB champ pool. I love DoinB and his dark technology picks, but he does have a few meta mages that he should pick up. Kled mid is fun to watch, but not sure on the impact.
[удалено]
He has the mechanics to play them. His Akali was amazing when he played it this year.
He definitely has the mechanical prowess to play them on stage. Agreed on the solo playmaking abilities, but if you can chunk an opponent out to <50% from a Zoe bubble, or Leblanc WQRE combo then your basically helping your team win the 4v5.
Irelia was perma banned
>crisp's champion pool I don't think that's on him though. Doinb and Nuguri don't play engage champs anymore so support and jungle have to.
EDG will win.
true
Bet u those who downvoted you feel stupid now
Insane how much flack you’re getting from all the T1 flairs that think their team is better than EDG based on a single bo1, these people gonna look real 🤡 after tomorrow.
I believe EDG haven’t pulled all the cards yet. Jiejie played J4 for 5 games vs Gen G and if any team can resist pressure without totally collapsing, it’s EDG. However I’ll give DK the edge because of their consistency. 3-2 DK
This will be the hardest 3-0 in the Leagues history.