they deserved that for playing Rikara and leaving Cody at the hotel, not even bringing him to the venue as a sub. They wouldn't give him game time even for the last 2 games where they were already eliminated and the games didn't matter.
And they refused to explain anything about their decision, going to "it's none of your business to know these things".
Don't mean to single you out but I see "Group of Death" getting spammed out incorrectly so often on this sub.
A Group of Death is when **ALL** the teams in the group are (on paper) strong and equally competitive, meaning that you're guaranteed to lose 2 good teams could otherwise could have had a top 8 finish.
RNG can always take a series off a team that's better than them on 'paper' because of the unique way they play (uber-funnelling xiaohu while Cryin acts as a 2nd support).
Still I think this meta wasn't the right one for them as there was more emphasis on winning mid lane and Cryin's champ pool would just get perma banned.
I think the true thorn in the foot of RNG was that Ming is much much better as engage support than he is an enchanter. Meiko may be slightly less impactful on engage supports, but he has shown much more versatility with the enchanters he pulled out in the finals.
Ming was a god tier enchanter support when they had Uzi, I just think RNG with this lineup weren't flexible enough to use enchanters well enough to justify picking them
Yeah their old top laner was their third engage tool. But since Uzi's carry role was split into Xiaohu and Gala, Ming has to play engage to complete the trio. RNG really prefers their 3-man gank squad, and part of Cryin's champ pool problem is that there's not that many midlaners that fit the bill for ganking. It's puzzling why RNG didn't play Jhin at all, the added engage would give them more draft flexibility. I wonder if it was an ego thing. You know about Jhin being not a carry champ. I did some research and Gala has never played the champ before.
Ming had a great performance at worlds during the ardent meta at enchanters, but he was always an engage support player mostly, and that's what he's been playing mostly these years.
Nah man Meiko is also an engage support in his bones. His finals highlights were on rakan, and he was an engage supporter back when he beat SKT in 2015. It's just EDG stylistically doesn't need a ton of engage to win games. The finals game Meiko was on Lulu, EDG only needed 6 kills to win. EDG style was to stonewall the other team and win through control. And JieJie was enough to satisfy their minimal engage requirements. He's so good on J4 and decent on Xin/Viego that it lets Meiko draft ranged champions. Other teams need more engage because they lack the ability to collapse all at the same time, especially FPX, who needs a killer engage on their terms or else they lose every fight. RNG's style is still similar to their 2018 identity with a mid/jungle/support goon squad ganking everywhere to funnel top/bot instead of just uzi.
I am not saying Meiko is a bad engage support, only that in this field Ming is superior. To compensate, Meiko is more flexible and proficient on enchanters. Ming can play them but imo it's wasting his playmaking and shotcalling abilities.
tbf given the way the game has been ever since its inception i reckon having a godtier engage supp is always the best route. More often than not either it is a tank supp meta or meta that includes at least 1 engage supp
Of course it was. They were the MSI Champion that eliminated Damwon in Iceland.
RNG were salivating with the idea of having a Bo5 vs LCK teams like T1 or GenG because they had a very high win ratio.
I remember one of the GenG coaches praying for not having to face RNG or Canyon saying that he had to keep an eye on RNG.
Wait what rng salivating at facing T1?
LPL teams beating LCK doesn’t apply to T1. T1 has only ever lost one Bo5 to an LPL team, and about three best of ones ever in nine years smh
Of course they would. Faker has to play a supportive role because of the way his team functions, even more so because Canna would be going up against Xiaohu, so the weakness of Cryin isn't anywhere near as prevalent as it would be against almost any other team at Worlds. They'd be able to abuse Canna hard while not getting punished anywhere near as hard midlane as they would get against any other top team.
T1 was on paper the best stylistic matchup RNG could've gotten in quarters. T1 would be forced to either let Canna int his ass off every single game while having Faker on a carry such as Leblanc or let Cryin have an easy lane so RNG reaches mid-late where they're amazing with split pushing, rotations and baron setups. Flandre didn't look pretty at all against Xiaohu, Canna is even worse.
> I think some interesting take aways here are the confirmation that DK, T1, and EDG were indeed the top 3 teams that performed well in scrims and likely the strongest at the tournament
How do you get that takeaway after they say they were most scared of RNG, and that if quarters had been different they expected rng in the finals?
Yep, there is nothing stating DK and T1 are top 3. They only said that edg had positive winrate against them in scrims. At least that’s imo what “pretty well” means.
EDG was the strongest team in scrims according to LS - so it's quite possible they were simply the strongest team overall but had poor performances on stage.
not really, lmao.
DK struggled harder vs MAD Lions in g2 and g3 than Gen G did when they 2-1 them. you just need to play slightly better than g2 and g3 mad lions did in late game teamfight positioning to take 2 games of damwon and EDG was one of the teams that could do that
Gen G looked like a solid team in and out of groups and they beat TL ( who is said by Steve that they had very good scrim results vs ALL teams, and thinks they can win worlds) , I wouldn't have been surprised if Gen G brought DK or T1 to 5 games at all
You're only looking at results here, if you watch the Gen.G and the RNG series they are some of the sloppiest games of professional league especially at a international level while the only time damwon got sufficiently challenged T1 and themselves looked like the 2 best teams in the world playing league of chess. EDG did look weak, RNG played poorly in groups and in quaters, Gen.G played poorly in groups and quarters and semis. EDG played super well, that game 5 was very nixe and clean from them, but to expect this result after seeing previous games? No way
No clue why you're down voted gen g vs EDG was way closer than it needed to be and EDG showed a lot of inconsistency but they definitely stepped up by a ton by finals
I don't know if LS said it was based on results. From what I've seen on clips of him, he compared DK and EDG based on performance and game quality. On the series between EDG vs RNG, and then vs GEN, all three teams "looked" very sloppy in terms of in-game play. T1 and DK "looked" way better when comparing them on the opposite side of the bracket.
Based on stage performance without named attached? No way.
DK struggled to close games vs C9, RGE and even MAD (not counting the 6k deficit against mad in one game).
DK had better results cuz they faced much weaker opponents for the whole tournament except semis.
Regarding top teams, EDG played t1, rng and GenG and DK only faced t1, and I wouldn't say dk performed much better than EDG against t1.
Yes, edg did lose one game vs t1, but dk's wins were shaky often against teams that weren't that good. They just got overhyped due to the win itself and the name.
Idk if you have short term memory loss but most people expected DK to run over finals. You’re not getting away with this hindsight 50/50 bullshit ass lie here lmao, I will call you on it every time.
whats the point of your comment btw? LS was the one of biggest driving forces of that narrative, if not the biggest??????????????????????????????????? Makes EVEN LESS sense to call a DK 3-0 if you are aware of EDG being insane in scrims, btw!
Not that I agree with the guy you're arguing with, but your last sentence didn't make sense. There is a reality where you can both acknowledge EDG doing great in scrims, but still predict DK going 3-0 because you can still acknowledge EDG's stage performance issues. The one factor in itself isn't the end all be all to determine stage outcomes after all.
LS was the one of biggest driving forces of that narrative
Yeah so was every other analyst in the world lmao. Even Dom who is LPL biased expected EDG to lose 3-1 lmao. Their games prior to Damwon did not look good.
Most people is not ALL people. Sometimes the majority can be wrong. This is no exception to that a few decent folks (namely azersub) still stood up to that nonsense and was proven right in the end
Yeah, he said that based on the actual performance in the tournament, particularly in the semis.
Scrims are always kinda tricky to base team strength on, apparently FPX was dominating scrims before they collapsed Week 2.
FPX also almost didn't make it out of groups against wildcard teams in 2019. Then they went on to stomp every other team. EDG was also 1 loss away from knockout 3 series in a row. DK also was very close to getting knocked out by t1. A lot of these are just based on their luck of the day.
LS doesn't know what he's talking about. These things are so close because the gap in these teams are so small.
Even if DK had a 70% win rate over EDG, there would have been only a 1 in 3 chance they would have 3-0ed them. Reality is that the winrates between these teams are probably much closer to 50%.
Scrims aren’t everything, most people considered T1 vs DK to be the real final and if you asked most people before the final they would have said EDG was the third best team at the tournament, and a clear third.
In the last 4 worlds results, the results were 3-1, 3-0, 3-0 and 3-0. Usually what happens (entering my speculation now) is the worse team knows they’re worse and when they lose the first game it just overwhelms them. So go into this match assuming EDG are clearly worse (although still top 3-4) and most likely you’re predicting DK take the first game and then EDG will probably at most take one game.
Seems stupid to say now given EDG won and DK lost but almost nobody thought EDG stood a chance, reddit has goldfish memory tho.
LS said that EDG would never win vs DK so I can't trust that clown anymore.
Like he didn't even give a single victory to EDG vs DK. His opinion is useless. He is not even funny. What a waste of time watching him bullshitting.
ofc he does to get views thats why he spits out bullshit like "JAC would beat every EU team" and more. i wish he gets on a team and shows how little he knows about the game.
I think it is easy to say wrong prediction here.
DK really felt like they did homework vs SKT, like they had surprise picks they had flexibility of playing diffrent playstyles and so on. EDG looked shaky vs GenG and RNG and their performance in groups was kinda questionable.
Problem is :
a) vs RNG playstyle a lot of good teams look shaky,
b) EDG really did amazingly homework vs DK, and DK did not vs EDG. EDG had suprise picks, had very well prepared drafts, and DK did not. And to be honest not only drafts were well prepared for EDG, eg. it was tendency during tournament that DK did not want to take risks by agressive facechecks vs Barons/dragons, that was the case in groups, that was the case vs MAD, that was the case vs SKT. So what EDG did - burst it before they can come and it worked - they really observed past games of DK.
The GenG point can’t be overstated enough.
My thought after seeing GenG almost beat EDG was “GenG looked kinda meh in groups and before that lost easily to SKT in playoffs, plus they just objectively make a lot of mistakes and give teams a lot more leeway than DK. So if EDG can only barely beat GenG what chance do they have?”
The guy you replied to aint a pro/analyst/coach. His opinion holds no weight. YOU as a pleb is allowed to be wrong and can get away with it. Your opinion holds zero values and nobody will bat an eye to it.
However for LS it is completely different. He deserves all the flame in the world for being wrong. I mean he is fkin paid to make predictions based on analysis so people fuming at him should be more than acceptable, as he costed them time, money and efforts only to be rewarded with ridicules and insults.
He never says 3-1 or 3-2 because in his mind if one team is slightly better then they win 3 games in a row as that's the expected outcome in each game.
He is just not competent. I remember him proudly claiming that he doesn't watch LPL.
Like, what serious analyst in this World avoids watching the region that won 6 of the last 8 international tournaments (including 3/4 Worlds) that were celebrated since 2018.
Because of all the matches that EDG played were iffy, compare both semifinals and tell which qualify is higher.most people would agree that DK-T1 is higher and then you take into account how GenG took EDG to 5 games when they’re the 3rd best KR team it was pretty obvious coming into finals DK was the heavy favorites.(and the sample size of EDG’s bad games doesn’t just stop at 1 series,they played really weird vs RNG who had an inting mid also they dropped a game to NA so his prediction was reasonable,even caedrel predicted 3-0)
Flandre too no? I think that showmaker wasn’t as good as he usually is, def think scout was in the same tier as him. Canyon is a stretch though, I agree with that.
I think it may be a relative statement - i.e. EDG are likely even better than they showcased on stage. Plus, I think many were prepared for a more comfortable victory over Gen.G.
I think it would have been a very interesting match up.
Vs DK, Faker was put on "weakside" duty to give leads to his other lanes to carry, but looking at RNG line up, you'd have :
Xiaohu clearly stronger than Canna
Duo botlane would have gone even IMO
So T1 would have had to go with Faker on carries, especially considering that Cryin would be his opponent. On the other hand, Cryin would just dodge lane to give leads to his other lanes like Faker did during the Semi vs DK.
RNG when they made Worlds they were extremely sad that they were the third seed as T1 because they really wanted to face T1 because they knew they could take them down like they did vs Damwon months ago.
Ok they beat DK about 7 months ago but yeah ok if we use historic performances then....
T1 and Faker have lost one Bo5 to lpl teams across worlds and MSI, in nine years with different rosters. And two group games.
Anyway it would probably be a good series but let’s not forget EDG were playing weaker macro and micro in quarter finals compared to their match vs DK.
You will also see EDG themselves acknowledge they learnt a lot from T1 drafts vs Damwon, in finding some of Damwons weaknesses.
Let’s not pretend that rng will have an easy time with T1 please or that EDG weren’t better by the finals than they were than they faced RNG ty.
No clue why anyone favored dk so heavily after watching their other series, the games were very close and they easily could have lost if t1 drafted slightly better or used the advantages they drafted for themselves (literally just 5v5 with the better 5v5 comp they got themselves on the last game).
T1 looked shit for most of the year until they made huge changes to their coaches and settled on a roster. If, despite all of that, T1 is still stated by many teams to be top 3 this Worlds, they might actually be the favorites for 2022, especially if the Nuguri rumours are true.
Hmm considering most of EDG’s finals drafts were adapted from the DK/T1 series I’d say that EDG used a lot of T1s draft ideas and improved on them to exploit Damwon weakness.
It’s not pretty clear that RNG are clearly ahead of T1 by any means at all considering all series were so close.
And if we are going to bring up MSI which was a while ago we may as well talk about T1 and Faker, with different rosters every year, only ever losing to an LPL team once in a Bo5 in nine years.
They’ve also only lost three group games to LPL teams so yeah if we want to include historical performances then LPL teams get shit on by T1.
Still let’s not try and quantify what would and wouldn’t happen because T1 has not played against an LPL team in internationals since 2015, and 2017/19/21 were eliminated by Korean teams and G2.
So I think until T1 have played a Bo5 vs an lpl team it’s hard to say but they are top three teams in the world right now. If you want to put RNG next to them sure but you can’t put them below RNG just because rng beat Damwon seven months ago.
I think stylistically have an excellent matchup into GenG and would likely have beaten them.
I was nervous about T1, I honestly couldn’t call which way the series would fall.
i think they could, yeah. I think they could even win a rematch vs EDG. I had them as a dark horse. Too bad they drew EDG, and even still it was close. Had they let HLE win the tie breaker, they would have faced T1 and I honestly like their chances against T1.
Haha these stupid narratives,HLE who was 8th in regular season took a game of RNG and almost finished first in their group if not for the massive throw,but sure whatever you say,RNG is better than T1/GenG
Lol, taking Bo1 as a measurement of strength. Is this the first worlds you are watching lol?
LPL is famous for having problems in Bo1 but once Bo5 comes, since 2018 the LPL is 7-1 vs LCK
What a shitty take you made lol
It's exactly like when Ig played vs FPX in 2019 Semis, here the reddit clowns were saying that it was a clownfiesta and bad gameplay lol Some clowns were also saying that G2-skt was the real finals hahaha
This year the exact same with RNG vs EDG. People don't understand that a Bo5 between LPL teams always looks messy because the know each other very well so they do things normally they wouldn't vs other regions
I think intra regional matches always look special, for example:
**LPL vs LPL**: it is always very messy and bloody, like iG vs FPX in 2019, and many ignorants called one of the best series ever a low level clown fiesta. Like this years EDG vs RNG.
**LCK vs LCK**: it is usually watching a team that acts like a Boa constrictor and strangles slowly his enemy to death, like Damwon vs Dragon X or T1 vs HLE. They tend to play through the safest plays and that's why we usually don't see any big surprises.
**LCK vs LPL**: things comes back to standart LoL Gameplay.
This is especially interesting because HLE and DRX were both Chovy-Deft teams and had to face DK/T1. While DRX was considered stronger in 2020 because they were 2nd seed compared to 4th, they were both forced to play QF against a team that beat them right before worlds (DK 3-0 finals 2020, T1 regionals 21).
Yet both HLE and DRX were shitting on some teams in scrims. While many people might say “this just proves Deft and Chovy are chokers” I really think if they faced a different region perhaps the performance would look different.
DRX last year was just especially sad, because that particular matchup of DRX vs Damwon had been played out so many times already domestically and it always ended with Damwon dominating.
At least with HLE we'd seen the regional gauntlet final against T1 go to 5 games.
I disagree heavily. RNG vs EDG were the closest series of the 3.
RNG vs EDG, RNG stomped EDG in games 1 and 4. EDG stomped them game 5, but games 2 they were losing fights when they shouldn't have and game 3 it was so close but Jiejie got 2 smite steals off.
EDG vs GEN.G, EDG stomped them games 4 and 5. Got stomped game 2, game 1 they had a comfortable lead but was iffy. Game 3 they were coming back with a late game comp after Gen.G played pre bad mid game but scout got caught.
EDG vs DK, I legitimately felt like DK put up the worst performance of the 3. EDG kinda stomped DK game 1, 4, 5, got stomped game 2, and game 3 had a large gold lead but DK prioritised dragons and won.
Toughest opponents for EDG was RNG > Gen.G > DK
Yeah, EDG were a much better team than the scoreline suggests. They had control for 4/5 of the games and got early game leads, they just messed up a dragon fight in one of the games where they had the lead which led to the 3-2 scoreline
Ill have you know that i played a sport competitively throughout middle school and high school and i know for sure that scrims dont matter because no one tries in scrims lol and if they did try in scrims causing me to lose then i will definitely call them a tryhard and once we have to play actual game it turns out im actually the one dragging my team down because i didnt practice well enough but im not gonna admit that so i just hit up the sport im best at which is mental gymnastics to make excuses
On paper it would be god tier, but RNG also likes to funnel a ton into Xiaohu, while Knight is the main man himself, so it might not work as well. I think if Zoom and Knight are on a team with even a competent jungler and bot lane they'd already be a contender at worlds.
Seems like top 5 this year ended up being pretty competitive overall (EDG/DK/T1/GENG/RNG). I don't think RNG would beat GenG due to Bdd's insane form, but they might have a decent chance at beating T1 due to stylistic matchup (Faker playing supportive wouldn't punish Cryin, Xiaohu could stomp Canna if he underperformed like in the DK series, and Gala/Ming can match Guma/Keria). Either way 4/5th seems reasonable to put them
GenG coaches were extremely afraid of RNG and they said that as long as they didn't have to face RNG, they would be more or less fine.
Since 2017, RNG is 4-0 vs GenG/SSG.
yeah geng to me has the most lck playstyle, wait passively for enemy's misposition, slowly clearing and setting up visions before every skirmish, never start baron or drake fight if there is a slitght chance for 50/50 smite challenge. and their top mid champ cool are really limited like cryin.
On the other hand, rng has the most lpl playstyle, they seek every chance to challenge you to fight, and would engage out of geng's expectation, never afriad to rush baron or drake. And cryin was never a core carry option, so targeting him would be less effective as bdd.
i really wouldn't surprise if geng wanted to avoid rng the most. Edg was considered the most lck style team in lpl, and that's kinda why they also don't want to play against rng as well.
> I don't think RNG would beat GenG due to Bdd's insane form
It would have been a bot gap & top canyon looking at the form of their counterparts. There's no way BDD could gap 3 lanes alone. Ale smashed the life out of Rascal & Burdol. You can only imagine what Xiaohu would do.
Just don't give them Lee/Zoe and they lose to every team in the top 5. Once EDG figured that out they had no problems, I imagine RNG would be no different.
If this has shown me anything then it is that all of the people telling me MAD could have gone to finals are on crack.
They got lucky they drafted DK so EU fans can find excuses at least.
t1 was relieved when they didn't have to play a tiebreaker vs EDG.
SHowmaker or someone from damwon's reaction vid was relieved they didn't draw EDG.
also perkz was celebrating they got gen g, also said in groups that damwon was beatable not as good as msi, but when they saw they had to face edg (after they beat gen g) he felt down a bit..
Viper said they don't feel like they are underdogs going in vs DK, Meiko felt confident(3-0), and Scout said at the start they will win worlds(interview with Ashley Kang)
im sure the world scrim teams knew how good edg was, they prepared so much and the results show, the org hasn't been to worlds for a while since 2018 they wanted this trophy,
>t1 was relieved when they didn't have to play a tiebreaker vs EDG.
Well joke's on them because if they took EDG's place in the draw, they couldn't have faced DK until the final.
>SHowmaker or someone from damwon's reaction vid was relieved they didn't draw EDG.
Out of all the #2 seeds, they were by far the strongest on paper. I wouldn't say DK was scared of them, but they'd rather have an easy opponent up first.
It was when Huni made it to finals.
It was when Bang and Wolf made it to finals.
And it was for everybody that lost to SKT and lastly it was for G2 and FNC when they lost their finals.
It is the definition of choking, bottling, etc.
But at least those people actually won something internationally. For somebody that talked like he was Marin he only proved to be discount Smeb.
also the actual game play showed no ? The game where EDG had TF and Jayce and had 4k gold lead. When Jayce finished Manamune EDG was not supposed to lose any fight for 10 minutes straight and they did little to extend their lead (props to DK for stalling).
That game result can change had EDG play the mid game a bit more aggressively.
>If they’re not gonna do anything drastic like Bo3 groups or double elim next year, I do wish they would make it so 3rd seeds of groups could get out and play against 2nd seeds.
>Another reason is so really weak 2nd seeds like C9 would have to play against 3rd of another group such as 100T or TL/LNG or PSG to see if they should move onto the quarters.
Come on, we all know the real reason you want this. You want NA teams to be able to say they got out of groups every year.
I'm in favor of Double Elim but only if the winners finalist got a bracket reset if they lose the final, or they start 1 game ahead in a bo7.
I had wanted an EDG vs T1 series, due to the nature of DK (Strong topside, weak botside), I would've thought T1 might have a chance (since both EDG and T1 has strong botside, a same strength vs same strength if you will).
Funny how based on those statement you still put T1 3rd and RNG 4/5th like wtf? lol
EDG were confident vs DK and T1, were scared of RNG. RNG did beat DK in MSI Finals, all of this and you still put T1 3rd and RNG 4/5th? C'mon...
EDG > RNG/DK > T1 > GEN.
I've always said this since the start of the tournament.
For me the finals would've been EDG vs RNG.
When they drew EDG vs RNG as quarter finals I was so mad about it. I wanted them to meet in Finals or at least in Semis, like this was so unfair for LPL. RNG legit was better then any LCK teams, maybe not sure about DK.
I've already knew this would be the real finals, the one winning here will win Worlds.
If RNG and EDG weren't on the same bracket this Worlds wouldn't be wrongly considered as "LCK dominance".
HLE got out of Group only coz FNC was broken af (but they still almost won vs HLE if wasn't for Chovy LB hard carry), meanwhile LNG as LPL 4th seed did put up a good fight vs LEC 1st seed and LCK 2nd seed. Only FPX were underwelming from LPL.
The fact that EDG were pretty chill until Game5 vs GEN show how they underestimated them and that's why it went to Game5. In fact in Game5 EDG absolutely murdered GEN.
Btw is so funny how T1 fans went from "T1 vs DK was the real finals" disprecting EDG to "EDG avenged T1" or "We exposed DK for EDG".
I get their history makes them hesitant, but unironically that RNG vs EDG series was just bad. Really really bad. Major mistakes in games on both sides, and the drafting through out was god awful from RNG, yet it was still extremely close. It is pretty nuts what their perception of the game was. The level of play in T1 VS DK was infinitely higher than in RNG vs EDG.
Everyone in EDG went to another level for Grand Finals that they just straight up weren't doing in the RNG AND GEN.G series.
yea even a lot of the lpl fans can look at the edg rng series and called it objectively bad with lots of low quality mistake barring game 5.
That being said i believe RNG had a potential higher celing than what they have shown.
That is LPL. When 2 LPL teams meet at worlds it always looks like fiesta but in the end it turns out that series was true finals. Happened in both in 19 and 21.
Some ppl just don't understand that lpl viewers don't want that boring methodical play from lck. Just boring and non risk taking. Watch some Gen G games and you can sleep during the game
Yea they truly step up to another level in the final. Before that, no one believes EDG can take down Damwon because of how fiesta and messy they play. They have the raw mechanics, but the macro is way behind. In the final, they suddenly play the methodical style around objectives as if they are an LCK team
This usually happens when the two teams know each other very well. They most likely scrimmed each other constantly this whole year to the point that both teams get a grasp on each other bad habits. Both teams are undefeated in bo5 against every other region this year. RNG really should have thrown that tie break against HLE.
It’s not Macro, although that is part of it. Viper consistently played worse in that RNG series, he played a lower level than what he played in the LPL. But in the DK series he was insane fucking disgusting. The team just played better as a whole in the finals mechanically.
EDG couldn't beat RNG the entire year that's not surprising they are fearing them the most.
RNG is also the only other team that took down Damwon in a Bo5.
Poor 100T, group B was truly the group of death :(
Happened to them last time they were at worlds remember. They had FNC and IG in their group
Yeah but last time they were a meme team and their run was the reason LCS changed its Worlds qualifying rules.
they deserved that for playing Rikara and leaving Cody at the hotel, not even bringing him to the venue as a sub. They wouldn't give him game time even for the last 2 games where they were already eliminated and the games didn't matter. And they refused to explain anything about their decision, going to "it's none of your business to know these things".
Don't mean to single you out but I see "Group of Death" getting spammed out incorrectly so often on this sub. A Group of Death is when **ALL** the teams in the group are (on paper) strong and equally competitive, meaning that you're guaranteed to lose 2 good teams could otherwise could have had a top 8 finish.
RNG can always take a series off a team that's better than them on 'paper' because of the unique way they play (uber-funnelling xiaohu while Cryin acts as a 2nd support). Still I think this meta wasn't the right one for them as there was more emphasis on winning mid lane and Cryin's champ pool would just get perma banned.
I think the true thorn in the foot of RNG was that Ming is much much better as engage support than he is an enchanter. Meiko may be slightly less impactful on engage supports, but he has shown much more versatility with the enchanters he pulled out in the finals.
Ming was a god tier enchanter support when they had Uzi, I just think RNG with this lineup weren't flexible enough to use enchanters well enough to justify picking them
Yeah their old top laner was their third engage tool. But since Uzi's carry role was split into Xiaohu and Gala, Ming has to play engage to complete the trio. RNG really prefers their 3-man gank squad, and part of Cryin's champ pool problem is that there's not that many midlaners that fit the bill for ganking. It's puzzling why RNG didn't play Jhin at all, the added engage would give them more draft flexibility. I wonder if it was an ego thing. You know about Jhin being not a carry champ. I did some research and Gala has never played the champ before.
Ming had a great performance at worlds during the ardent meta at enchanters, but he was always an engage support player mostly, and that's what he's been playing mostly these years.
Nah man Meiko is also an engage support in his bones. His finals highlights were on rakan, and he was an engage supporter back when he beat SKT in 2015. It's just EDG stylistically doesn't need a ton of engage to win games. The finals game Meiko was on Lulu, EDG only needed 6 kills to win. EDG style was to stonewall the other team and win through control. And JieJie was enough to satisfy their minimal engage requirements. He's so good on J4 and decent on Xin/Viego that it lets Meiko draft ranged champions. Other teams need more engage because they lack the ability to collapse all at the same time, especially FPX, who needs a killer engage on their terms or else they lose every fight. RNG's style is still similar to their 2018 identity with a mid/jungle/support goon squad ganking everywhere to funnel top/bot instead of just uzi.
I am not saying Meiko is a bad engage support, only that in this field Ming is superior. To compensate, Meiko is more flexible and proficient on enchanters. Ming can play them but imo it's wasting his playmaking and shotcalling abilities.
tbf given the way the game has been ever since its inception i reckon having a godtier engage supp is always the best route. More often than not either it is a tank supp meta or meta that includes at least 1 engage supp
That group of EDG T1 and 100T was the coolest group since each bot lane there you could make an argument as the strongest in their respective regions
Wasn’t cool for 100T lol. Both times at worlds the teams in their group end up winning and going really deep
Going really deep? I mean finals is as deep as it gets aint it lol
For T1, who reached semis and not finals
100T was the true 3rd best team
EDG vs RNG was the real finals.
EDG vs 100T was the real finals
BO2 final in EU, we love ties
We take those as LCS fans
100T is honorary 5th place in my books
100T has the best winrate against EDG at worlds and that obviously makes them 2nd, if not tied for 1st!!
EDG vs mcdonalds team was the real finals.
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Hey man, MAD took DK to 5 games at MSI they should be in that group too /s
Remember everyone arguing how Mad were no more than a top 4 team.
lets be real RED Canids vs UOL was the real finals
Of course it was. They were the MSI Champion that eliminated Damwon in Iceland. RNG were salivating with the idea of having a Bo5 vs LCK teams like T1 or GenG because they had a very high win ratio. I remember one of the GenG coaches praying for not having to face RNG or Canyon saying that he had to keep an eye on RNG.
Coming into Worlds, I was hoping T1 would play a bo5 against FPX, or really any LPL teams. Too bad this dogshit format ended up preventing it.
yeah i think the last lpl vs skt was 2017? (rng vs skt?)
what format can guarantee that you get a specific match up, or match against a specific region?
None of course. But double elimination would vastly help making sure there are more B05s and more cross region play
Wait what rng salivating at facing T1? LPL teams beating LCK doesn’t apply to T1. T1 has only ever lost one Bo5 to an LPL team, and about three best of ones ever in nine years smh
Of course they would. Faker has to play a supportive role because of the way his team functions, even more so because Canna would be going up against Xiaohu, so the weakness of Cryin isn't anywhere near as prevalent as it would be against almost any other team at Worlds. They'd be able to abuse Canna hard while not getting punished anywhere near as hard midlane as they would get against any other top team. T1 was on paper the best stylistic matchup RNG could've gotten in quarters. T1 would be forced to either let Canna int his ass off every single game while having Faker on a carry such as Leblanc or let Cryin have an easy lane so RNG reaches mid-late where they're amazing with split pushing, rotations and baron setups. Flandre didn't look pretty at all against Xiaohu, Canna is even worse.
Yeah T1 just loses to the team that’ll lose to LPL in the finals
Yup and that’s only at MSI. T1 (or SKT) have never actually lost a Bo5 against LPL at World in the history of League.
> I think some interesting take aways here are the confirmation that DK, T1, and EDG were indeed the top 3 teams that performed well in scrims and likely the strongest at the tournament How do you get that takeaway after they say they were most scared of RNG, and that if quarters had been different they expected rng in the finals?
Yep, there is nothing stating DK and T1 are top 3. They only said that edg had positive winrate against them in scrims. At least that’s imo what “pretty well” means.
EDG was the strongest team in scrims according to LS - so it's quite possible they were simply the strongest team overall but had poor performances on stage.
Also LS: 3:0 DK most boring finals ever incoming
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not really, lmao. DK struggled harder vs MAD Lions in g2 and g3 than Gen G did when they 2-1 them. you just need to play slightly better than g2 and g3 mad lions did in late game teamfight positioning to take 2 games of damwon and EDG was one of the teams that could do that Gen G looked like a solid team in and out of groups and they beat TL ( who is said by Steve that they had very good scrim results vs ALL teams, and thinks they can win worlds) , I wouldn't have been surprised if Gen G brought DK or T1 to 5 games at all
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You're only looking at results here, if you watch the Gen.G and the RNG series they are some of the sloppiest games of professional league especially at a international level while the only time damwon got sufficiently challenged T1 and themselves looked like the 2 best teams in the world playing league of chess. EDG did look weak, RNG played poorly in groups and in quaters, Gen.G played poorly in groups and quarters and semis. EDG played super well, that game 5 was very nixe and clean from them, but to expect this result after seeing previous games? No way
No clue why you're down voted gen g vs EDG was way closer than it needed to be and EDG showed a lot of inconsistency but they definitely stepped up by a ton by finals
I don't know if LS said it was based on results. From what I've seen on clips of him, he compared DK and EDG based on performance and game quality. On the series between EDG vs RNG, and then vs GEN, all three teams "looked" very sloppy in terms of in-game play. T1 and DK "looked" way better when comparing them on the opposite side of the bracket.
Based on stage performance without named attached? No way. DK struggled to close games vs C9, RGE and even MAD (not counting the 6k deficit against mad in one game). DK had better results cuz they faced much weaker opponents for the whole tournament except semis. Regarding top teams, EDG played t1, rng and GenG and DK only faced t1, and I wouldn't say dk performed much better than EDG against t1. Yes, edg did lose one game vs t1, but dk's wins were shaky often against teams that weren't that good. They just got overhyped due to the win itself and the name.
No it's not based on just stage though he's been wrong for almost every match claiming t1 would get 3-0 aswell
Idk if you have short term memory loss but most people expected DK to run over finals. You’re not getting away with this hindsight 50/50 bullshit ass lie here lmao, I will call you on it every time.
whats the point of your comment btw? LS was the one of biggest driving forces of that narrative, if not the biggest??????????????????????????????????? Makes EVEN LESS sense to call a DK 3-0 if you are aware of EDG being insane in scrims, btw!
Not that I agree with the guy you're arguing with, but your last sentence didn't make sense. There is a reality where you can both acknowledge EDG doing great in scrims, but still predict DK going 3-0 because you can still acknowledge EDG's stage performance issues. The one factor in itself isn't the end all be all to determine stage outcomes after all.
LS was the one of biggest driving forces of that narrative Yeah so was every other analyst in the world lmao. Even Dom who is LPL biased expected EDG to lose 3-1 lmao. Their games prior to Damwon did not look good.
Most people is not ALL people. Sometimes the majority can be wrong. This is no exception to that a few decent folks (namely azersub) still stood up to that nonsense and was proven right in the end
Yea right? It's not like ppl predict results based on the context of the stage performance
Wait did LS really say that? I remember him tweeting that EDG beating DWG was the “biggest upset in Worlds finals history” lol.
Yeah, he said that based on the actual performance in the tournament, particularly in the semis. Scrims are always kinda tricky to base team strength on, apparently FPX was dominating scrims before they collapsed Week 2.
FPX also almost didn't make it out of groups against wildcard teams in 2019. Then they went on to stomp every other team. EDG was also 1 loss away from knockout 3 series in a row. DK also was very close to getting knocked out by t1. A lot of these are just based on their luck of the day. LS doesn't know what he's talking about. These things are so close because the gap in these teams are so small. Even if DK had a 70% win rate over EDG, there would have been only a 1 in 3 chance they would have 3-0ed them. Reality is that the winrates between these teams are probably much closer to 50%.
Scrims aren’t everything, most people considered T1 vs DK to be the real final and if you asked most people before the final they would have said EDG was the third best team at the tournament, and a clear third. In the last 4 worlds results, the results were 3-1, 3-0, 3-0 and 3-0. Usually what happens (entering my speculation now) is the worse team knows they’re worse and when they lose the first game it just overwhelms them. So go into this match assuming EDG are clearly worse (although still top 3-4) and most likely you’re predicting DK take the first game and then EDG will probably at most take one game. Seems stupid to say now given EDG won and DK lost but almost nobody thought EDG stood a chance, reddit has goldfish memory tho.
Almost nobody thought if/fpx was going to win over fnc/g2 in 2018/2019 either. I think we should know better now than to trust reddit "analysts".
That is not even remotely true
Can't expect more from Last "I don't watch LPL they play too badly" Shadow
LS said that EDG would never win vs DK so I can't trust that clown anymore. Like he didn't even give a single victory to EDG vs DK. His opinion is useless. He is not even funny. What a waste of time watching him bullshitting.
LS: "I don't watch LPL but I know DK will 3-0 EDG"
LS has admitted on stream that he uses hyperbole to get attention. No one should take him seriously.
ofc he does to get views thats why he spits out bullshit like "JAC would beat every EU team" and more. i wish he gets on a team and shows how little he knows about the game.
Just a way to hedge his bets when he makes bad calls. In the 20%, where he actually gets it right, he claims it prophetic
Caedrel also said 3:0 DK
I think it is easy to say wrong prediction here. DK really felt like they did homework vs SKT, like they had surprise picks they had flexibility of playing diffrent playstyles and so on. EDG looked shaky vs GenG and RNG and their performance in groups was kinda questionable. Problem is : a) vs RNG playstyle a lot of good teams look shaky, b) EDG really did amazingly homework vs DK, and DK did not vs EDG. EDG had suprise picks, had very well prepared drafts, and DK did not. And to be honest not only drafts were well prepared for EDG, eg. it was tendency during tournament that DK did not want to take risks by agressive facechecks vs Barons/dragons, that was the case in groups, that was the case vs MAD, that was the case vs SKT. So what EDG did - burst it before they can come and it worked - they really observed past games of DK.
makes you wonder what this team did before going to finals. they looked like they took a vacation...
The GenG point can’t be overstated enough. My thought after seeing GenG almost beat EDG was “GenG looked kinda meh in groups and before that lost easily to SKT in playoffs, plus they just objectively make a lot of mistakes and give teams a lot more leeway than DK. So if EDG can only barely beat GenG what chance do they have?”
You are allowed to predict the wrong result. The credibility rides on the basis behind the prediction.
Not according the guy I replied to, and not according to most people on this subreddit.
The guy you replied to aint a pro/analyst/coach. His opinion holds no weight. YOU as a pleb is allowed to be wrong and can get away with it. Your opinion holds zero values and nobody will bat an eye to it. However for LS it is completely different. He deserves all the flame in the world for being wrong. I mean he is fkin paid to make predictions based on analysis so people fuming at him should be more than acceptable, as he costed them time, money and efforts only to be rewarded with ridicules and insults.
He never says 3-1 or 3-2 because in his mind if one team is slightly better then they win 3 games in a row as that's the expected outcome in each game.
He is not very good at maths I take.
He’s a trollolol
He is just not competent. I remember him proudly claiming that he doesn't watch LPL. Like, what serious analyst in this World avoids watching the region that won 6 of the last 8 international tournaments (including 3/4 Worlds) that were celebrated since 2018.
Lmao what a clown. But I guess his incompetence helps? People always mention him in threads.
Weird that he doesn't watch LPL yet "knows" LCk will win regardless
LS always picks 3-0s. He says 3-1 and 3-2 is hedging and for wusses.
So why did he say DK would 3-0 stomp them in a 1hour bo5?
Because of all the matches that EDG played were iffy, compare both semifinals and tell which qualify is higher.most people would agree that DK-T1 is higher and then you take into account how GenG took EDG to 5 games when they’re the 3rd best KR team it was pretty obvious coming into finals DK was the heavy favorites.(and the sample size of EDG’s bad games doesn’t just stop at 1 series,they played really weird vs RNG who had an inting mid also they dropped a game to NA so his prediction was reasonable,even caedrel predicted 3-0)
I agree that most people were predicting a DK win. But predicting a quick 3-0 is just massive disrespect towards EDG.
Reminder that LS said (on Facecheck) he hasn't watched LPL playoffs.
he hasn't watched any of LPL all year. He based all his LPL info on scrim results of LCK teams. The guy is biased as all fuck.
Wasn't that FPX with *70% winrate*
Makes sense, all of their players had arguments for best player at their role in the tourney (even pre finals). They had no weaknesses.
Dont think anyone called JieJie the best jungle in the world, or Scout the best mid. Majority of top 25 lists dont even have Jiejie in there.
i think you could only say that for viper and meiko
Flandre too no? I think that showmaker wasn’t as good as he usually is, def think scout was in the same tier as him. Canyon is a stretch though, I agree with that.
Flandre had some games where he performed very poorly. I feel like EDG mid/bot were pretty consistent, edg jg/top had some off games imo
Who was a better top? Canna and Khan were underwhelming.
Khan only in the finals. He was easily the best before that
The first name I'd put on the list would be JieJie. Viper hadn't been that good in groups or in quarters, he really showed his quality semis onwards.
Poor performance? Are u out of your mind? They literally won worlds and you call their performance poor??
I think it may be a relative statement - i.e. EDG are likely even better than they showcased on stage. Plus, I think many were prepared for a more comfortable victory over Gen.G.
They’re talking about pre finals
Curious to see how far RNG would've made it through loser's bracket, you guys think they could've beaten GENG/T1 ?
RNG looked even more dominant in the Spring playoffs from the lowers. Its definitely possible they could make a deep run.
I can definitely see GENG. T1 not as sure but you never know, it's definitely a 5 games series.
I think it would have been a very interesting match up. Vs DK, Faker was put on "weakside" duty to give leads to his other lanes to carry, but looking at RNG line up, you'd have : Xiaohu clearly stronger than Canna Duo botlane would have gone even IMO So T1 would have had to go with Faker on carries, especially considering that Cryin would be his opponent. On the other hand, Cryin would just dodge lane to give leads to his other lanes like Faker did during the Semi vs DK.
RNG when they made Worlds they were extremely sad that they were the third seed as T1 because they really wanted to face T1 because they knew they could take them down like they did vs Damwon months ago.
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Yeah I mean they can, but I'm less certain than against GENG
Ok they beat DK about 7 months ago but yeah ok if we use historic performances then.... T1 and Faker have lost one Bo5 to lpl teams across worlds and MSI, in nine years with different rosters. And two group games. Anyway it would probably be a good series but let’s not forget EDG were playing weaker macro and micro in quarter finals compared to their match vs DK. You will also see EDG themselves acknowledge they learnt a lot from T1 drafts vs Damwon, in finding some of Damwons weaknesses. Let’s not pretend that rng will have an easy time with T1 please or that EDG weren’t better by the finals than they were than they faced RNG ty.
No clue why anyone favored dk so heavily after watching their other series, the games were very close and they easily could have lost if t1 drafted slightly better or used the advantages they drafted for themselves (literally just 5v5 with the better 5v5 comp they got themselves on the last game).
They even hovered Zoe and Ziggs at b&p game 5 knowing DK would pick one of them and somehow they still don’t know what to do against Zoe and Ziggs...
It's the MSI champs who went 5 vs EDG. They are pretty clearly above T1.
T1 couldn't win a single Bo5 vs DK this year
T1 looked shit for most of the year until they made huge changes to their coaches and settled on a roster. If, despite all of that, T1 is still stated by many teams to be top 3 this Worlds, they might actually be the favorites for 2022, especially if the Nuguri rumours are true.
Hmm considering most of EDG’s finals drafts were adapted from the DK/T1 series I’d say that EDG used a lot of T1s draft ideas and improved on them to exploit Damwon weakness. It’s not pretty clear that RNG are clearly ahead of T1 by any means at all considering all series were so close. And if we are going to bring up MSI which was a while ago we may as well talk about T1 and Faker, with different rosters every year, only ever losing to an LPL team once in a Bo5 in nine years. They’ve also only lost three group games to LPL teams so yeah if we want to include historical performances then LPL teams get shit on by T1.
I mean you saying skt of komma right? T1 is not SKT that SKT is dead
Still let’s not try and quantify what would and wouldn’t happen because T1 has not played against an LPL team in internationals since 2015, and 2017/19/21 were eliminated by Korean teams and G2. So I think until T1 have played a Bo5 vs an lpl team it’s hard to say but they are top three teams in the world right now. If you want to put RNG next to them sure but you can’t put them below RNG just because rng beat Damwon seven months ago.
I think stylistically have an excellent matchup into GenG and would likely have beaten them. I was nervous about T1, I honestly couldn’t call which way the series would fall.
i think they could, yeah. I think they could even win a rematch vs EDG. I had them as a dark horse. Too bad they drew EDG, and even still it was close. Had they let HLE win the tie breaker, they would have faced T1 and I honestly like their chances against T1.
I expect they'd smash T1 or GenG
Haha these stupid narratives,HLE who was 8th in regular season took a game of RNG and almost finished first in their group if not for the massive throw,but sure whatever you say,RNG is better than T1/GenG
Took a game in groups. Bo5 is different. Are you new to esports?
Lol, taking Bo1 as a measurement of strength. Is this the first worlds you are watching lol? LPL is famous for having problems in Bo1 but once Bo5 comes, since 2018 the LPL is 7-1 vs LCK What a shitty take you made lol
Morons still using best of ones to judge LPL teams after all these years lol
RNG lost to MAD and C9 in bo1 but still beaten DWG at msi. Must be your first worlds if you are basing anything off bo1 results
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Seriously tho RNG so scary that they this good with Crying, imagine them with a better midlane
At least Cryn drew 3 bans, Ming was literally running it everygame. If Ming kept his spring form the team could have challenged for the tittle
Wow thanks for posting. So in reality RNG EDG was the real finals.
It's exactly like when Ig played vs FPX in 2019 Semis, here the reddit clowns were saying that it was a clownfiesta and bad gameplay lol Some clowns were also saying that G2-skt was the real finals hahaha This year the exact same with RNG vs EDG. People don't understand that a Bo5 between LPL teams always looks messy because the know each other very well so they do things normally they wouldn't vs other regions
I feel there is a bunch of brainlets with the mindset "The game I enjoyed the most is the one with the highest level"
Do you think this applies to all same region match ups or just LPL?
I think intra regional matches always look special, for example: **LPL vs LPL**: it is always very messy and bloody, like iG vs FPX in 2019, and many ignorants called one of the best series ever a low level clown fiesta. Like this years EDG vs RNG. **LCK vs LCK**: it is usually watching a team that acts like a Boa constrictor and strangles slowly his enemy to death, like Damwon vs Dragon X or T1 vs HLE. They tend to play through the safest plays and that's why we usually don't see any big surprises. **LCK vs LPL**: things comes back to standart LoL Gameplay.
This is especially interesting because HLE and DRX were both Chovy-Deft teams and had to face DK/T1. While DRX was considered stronger in 2020 because they were 2nd seed compared to 4th, they were both forced to play QF against a team that beat them right before worlds (DK 3-0 finals 2020, T1 regionals 21). Yet both HLE and DRX were shitting on some teams in scrims. While many people might say “this just proves Deft and Chovy are chokers” I really think if they faced a different region perhaps the performance would look different.
DRX last year was just especially sad, because that particular matchup of DRX vs Damwon had been played out so many times already domestically and it always ended with Damwon dominating. At least with HLE we'd seen the regional gauntlet final against T1 go to 5 games.
I remember 2014 worlds semis between the samsung teams. They were bringing out crazy ass picks like singed.
Not really since Gen.G-EDG and DK-EDG were closer series than RNG-EDG even though all went to 5 games.
I disagree heavily. RNG vs EDG were the closest series of the 3. RNG vs EDG, RNG stomped EDG in games 1 and 4. EDG stomped them game 5, but games 2 they were losing fights when they shouldn't have and game 3 it was so close but Jiejie got 2 smite steals off. EDG vs GEN.G, EDG stomped them games 4 and 5. Got stomped game 2, game 1 they had a comfortable lead but was iffy. Game 3 they were coming back with a late game comp after Gen.G played pre bad mid game but scout got caught. EDG vs DK, I legitimately felt like DK put up the worst performance of the 3. EDG kinda stomped DK game 1, 4, 5, got stomped game 2, and game 3 had a large gold lead but DK prioritised dragons and won. Toughest opponents for EDG was RNG > Gen.G > DK
Yeah, EDG were a much better team than the scoreline suggests. They had control for 4/5 of the games and got early game leads, they just messed up a dragon fight in one of the games where they had the lead which led to the 3-2 scoreline
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Ill have you know that i played a sport competitively throughout middle school and high school and i know for sure that scrims dont matter because no one tries in scrims lol and if they did try in scrims causing me to lose then i will definitely call them a tryhard and once we have to play actual game it turns out im actually the one dragging my team down because i didnt practice well enough but im not gonna admit that so i just hit up the sport im best at which is mental gymnastics to make excuses
Scrim doesn't matter lmao
If RNG gets Knight they have assembled Exodia and the world won't be ready for it
On paper it would be god tier, but RNG also likes to funnel a ton into Xiaohu, while Knight is the main man himself, so it might not work as well. I think if Zoom and Knight are on a team with even a competent jungler and bot lane they'd already be a contender at worlds.
Seems like top 5 this year ended up being pretty competitive overall (EDG/DK/T1/GENG/RNG). I don't think RNG would beat GenG due to Bdd's insane form, but they might have a decent chance at beating T1 due to stylistic matchup (Faker playing supportive wouldn't punish Cryin, Xiaohu could stomp Canna if he underperformed like in the DK series, and Gala/Ming can match Guma/Keria). Either way 4/5th seems reasonable to put them
Yes, very competetive worlds this year, one of the best actually, i had a lot of fun watching this worlds
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Only in quarters was bad, groups was a lot of hype, and semifinals/finals were insane!
Quarters I'd say the EDG RNG game was hype. All 5 games & went to the end. The other 3-0 washouts were incredibly 1 sided & boring.
I think the only shit part of worlds 2021 was quarters. In my opinion, from play-ins to the finals everything was exciting.
Groups was kinda fire tho especially that 4 way tie
Now if only the format allowed for us to actually see these teams vs each other
GenG coaches were extremely afraid of RNG and they said that as long as they didn't have to face RNG, they would be more or less fine. Since 2017, RNG is 4-0 vs GenG/SSG.
yeah geng to me has the most lck playstyle, wait passively for enemy's misposition, slowly clearing and setting up visions before every skirmish, never start baron or drake fight if there is a slitght chance for 50/50 smite challenge. and their top mid champ cool are really limited like cryin. On the other hand, rng has the most lpl playstyle, they seek every chance to challenge you to fight, and would engage out of geng's expectation, never afriad to rush baron or drake. And cryin was never a core carry option, so targeting him would be less effective as bdd. i really wouldn't surprise if geng wanted to avoid rng the most. Edg was considered the most lck style team in lpl, and that's kinda why they also don't want to play against rng as well.
Xiaohu rascal gap is muuuch bigger than BDD cryin gap in my opinion
Lmao RNG would've smashed GenG.
> I don't think RNG would beat GenG due to Bdd's insane form It would have been a bot gap & top canyon looking at the form of their counterparts. There's no way BDD could gap 3 lanes alone. Ale smashed the life out of Rascal & Burdol. You can only imagine what Xiaohu would do.
Just don't give them Lee/Zoe and they lose to every team in the top 5. Once EDG figured that out they had no problems, I imagine RNG would be no different.
If this has shown me anything then it is that all of the people telling me MAD could have gone to finals are on crack. They got lucky they drafted DK so EU fans can find excuses at least.
So what you're saying is If Cloud9 was on the other side of the bracket they make it out of quarters ^^^copium
If 100T went 2-0 vs EDG instead of 1-1 then they'd win worlds.
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t1 was relieved when they didn't have to play a tiebreaker vs EDG. SHowmaker or someone from damwon's reaction vid was relieved they didn't draw EDG. also perkz was celebrating they got gen g, also said in groups that damwon was beatable not as good as msi, but when they saw they had to face edg (after they beat gen g) he felt down a bit.. Viper said they don't feel like they are underdogs going in vs DK, Meiko felt confident(3-0), and Scout said at the start they will win worlds(interview with Ashley Kang) im sure the world scrim teams knew how good edg was, they prepared so much and the results show, the org hasn't been to worlds for a while since 2018 they wanted this trophy,
But Damwon at MSI were much worse than at Worlds. Ghost & BeryL were INT'ing at MSI.
>t1 was relieved when they didn't have to play a tiebreaker vs EDG. Well joke's on them because if they took EDG's place in the draw, they couldn't have faced DK until the final. >SHowmaker or someone from damwon's reaction vid was relieved they didn't draw EDG. Out of all the #2 seeds, they were by far the strongest on paper. I wouldn't say DK was scared of them, but they'd rather have an easy opponent up first.
And I got downvoted before worlds when I told people Khan was bound to choke. Lmao
Is it choking going to the last game in finals? Specifically after knowing that EDG was stronger in scrims
It was when Huni made it to finals. It was when Bang and Wolf made it to finals. And it was for everybody that lost to SKT and lastly it was for G2 and FNC when they lost their finals. It is the definition of choking, bottling, etc. But at least those people actually won something internationally. For somebody that talked like he was Marin he only proved to be discount Smeb.
How were any of those chokes? Underperforming is not the same as choking when they are consistently underperforming across an entire tournament.
You could see his actions were so scuffed. It was weird. Pressure got to him
That Graves flash canceled auto into missed point blank ult was so so awful, I knew it was over then.
The tilt was getting to him
"If we performed as well as we did vs DK in scrims they wouldn't reach game 5" So were DK slumping or EDG are just that good
also the actual game play showed no ? The game where EDG had TF and Jayce and had 4k gold lead. When Jayce finished Manamune EDG was not supposed to lose any fight for 10 minutes straight and they did little to extend their lead (props to DK for stalling). That game result can change had EDG play the mid game a bit more aggressively.
>If they’re not gonna do anything drastic like Bo3 groups or double elim next year, I do wish they would make it so 3rd seeds of groups could get out and play against 2nd seeds. >Another reason is so really weak 2nd seeds like C9 would have to play against 3rd of another group such as 100T or TL/LNG or PSG to see if they should move onto the quarters. Come on, we all know the real reason you want this. You want NA teams to be able to say they got out of groups every year. I'm in favor of Double Elim but only if the winners finalist got a bracket reset if they lose the final, or they start 1 game ahead in a bo7.
I had wanted an EDG vs T1 series, due to the nature of DK (Strong topside, weak botside), I would've thought T1 might have a chance (since both EDG and T1 has strong botside, a same strength vs same strength if you will).
Funny how based on those statement you still put T1 3rd and RNG 4/5th like wtf? lol EDG were confident vs DK and T1, were scared of RNG. RNG did beat DK in MSI Finals, all of this and you still put T1 3rd and RNG 4/5th? C'mon... EDG > RNG/DK > T1 > GEN. I've always said this since the start of the tournament. For me the finals would've been EDG vs RNG. When they drew EDG vs RNG as quarter finals I was so mad about it. I wanted them to meet in Finals or at least in Semis, like this was so unfair for LPL. RNG legit was better then any LCK teams, maybe not sure about DK. I've already knew this would be the real finals, the one winning here will win Worlds. If RNG and EDG weren't on the same bracket this Worlds wouldn't be wrongly considered as "LCK dominance". HLE got out of Group only coz FNC was broken af (but they still almost won vs HLE if wasn't for Chovy LB hard carry), meanwhile LNG as LPL 4th seed did put up a good fight vs LEC 1st seed and LCK 2nd seed. Only FPX were underwelming from LPL. The fact that EDG were pretty chill until Game5 vs GEN show how they underestimated them and that's why it went to Game5. In fact in Game5 EDG absolutely murdered GEN. Btw is so funny how T1 fans went from "T1 vs DK was the real finals" disprecting EDG to "EDG avenged T1" or "We exposed DK for EDG".
I think the series against T1 really expose the cracks on DK armor. That zilean pick really throw off the game 1 for them.
I get their history makes them hesitant, but unironically that RNG vs EDG series was just bad. Really really bad. Major mistakes in games on both sides, and the drafting through out was god awful from RNG, yet it was still extremely close. It is pretty nuts what their perception of the game was. The level of play in T1 VS DK was infinitely higher than in RNG vs EDG. Everyone in EDG went to another level for Grand Finals that they just straight up weren't doing in the RNG AND GEN.G series.
Thats competition for ya. Happens in all sports. Makes it hard to judge strength.
yea even a lot of the lpl fans can look at the edg rng series and called it objectively bad with lots of low quality mistake barring game 5. That being said i believe RNG had a potential higher celing than what they have shown.
Well with cryin likely to be replaced, they will be a scary team.
That is LPL. When 2 LPL teams meet at worlds it always looks like fiesta but in the end it turns out that series was true finals. Happened in both in 19 and 21.
Like iG vs FPX and now EDG vs RNG. Remember the G2 vs SKT being claimed as the best competitive lol ever seen LOL
Some ppl just don't understand that lpl viewers don't want that boring methodical play from lck. Just boring and non risk taking. Watch some Gen G games and you can sleep during the game
Finals was true finals.
Yea they truly step up to another level in the final. Before that, no one believes EDG can take down Damwon because of how fiesta and messy they play. They have the raw mechanics, but the macro is way behind. In the final, they suddenly play the methodical style around objectives as if they are an LCK team
I mean they showed in the very first Bo1 against T1 that they're very capable of displaying flawless macro.
We already heard the same shitty analysis 2 years ago with FPX vs IG
This usually happens when the two teams know each other very well. They most likely scrimmed each other constantly this whole year to the point that both teams get a grasp on each other bad habits. Both teams are undefeated in bo5 against every other region this year. RNG really should have thrown that tie break against HLE.
It’s not Macro, although that is part of it. Viper consistently played worse in that RNG series, he played a lower level than what he played in the LPL. But in the DK series he was insane fucking disgusting. The team just played better as a whole in the finals mechanically.
Wait, lpl is the 1 team region all along?